Log for #openttdcoop on 6th January 2014:
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01:20:40  <Maxpm> !help
01:20:40  <coopserver> Maxpm: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
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02:38:34  <efess> !password
02:38:34  <coopserver> efess: slowed
02:39:15  <efess> !download win64
02:39:15  <coopserver> efess:
02:48:21  <efess> !download win64
02:48:21  <coopserver> efess:
02:48:23  <efess> !password
02:48:23  <coopserver> efess: denied
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12:07:30  <ryx> hi
12:07:38  <V453000> ih
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12:38:19  <ryx> !password
12:38:19  <coopserver> ryx: bucket
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12:39:39  <ryx> aaaaaaah, what happened to the rainbow bridge of why the fuck not?
12:39:49  <V453000> there never was any
12:40:21  <coopserver> <ryx> oh, did I dream it then?
12:40:21  <V453000> [it was causing evil mode of "fuck you thats why" so it was suggested a friendly solution of death]
12:40:26  <V453000> yes, most certainly
12:40:56  <coopserver> <ryx> how easy everything would be with signals on bridges
12:41:09  <V453000> rather dumb :)
12:41:18  <V453000> bridges make it interesting
12:41:33  <V453000> you have to take them as something special
12:41:39  <coopserver> <ryx> lol
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12:42:08  <V453000> signsls on bridges would mean 1 less feature to the game, major feature :)
12:42:21  <V453000> as it makes track === bridge
12:43:34  <V453000> you need to build bridges everywhere, everything would suddenly be dull and trivial
12:43:45  <V453000> BTW if you had signals in tunnels, the most effective way to build would be to have everything undergroudn
12:43:53  <V453000> so you could build in a new layer above
12:43:56  <V453000> dumb or not, decide :P
12:44:04  <coopserver> <ryx> ok ok
12:44:36  <coopserver> <ryx> but that clearly explains why that feature is on the openttd feature list for _ages_ and nobody ever builds it
12:44:38  <hylje_> well bridges should be stupid expensive to begin with but ottd cannot into financial balancing :)
12:45:14  <hylje_> you should be allowed to build rollercoaster if nothing else cuts it
12:46:32  <coopserver> <ryx> the goods drop north hub is overloaded again
12:46:57  <coopserver> <ryx> I love the word "detunnelized"
12:47:00  <V453000> costs dont really change anything on openttd, sooner or later you would have the money anyway, only a matter of how long do you accept to wait
12:47:08  <V453000> :)
12:47:26  <coopserver> <ryx> aaaand anti-bridge-movement
12:47:36  <hylje_> yeah well there's not really a progression of low-margin stuff into higher margin, higher cost stuff
12:47:56  <hylje_> we just start with the highest margin stuff (moneymaker) and then start fucking around
12:48:01  <coopserver> <ryx> V certainly tries, with the pricings in PURR and NUTS
12:49:20  <V453000> thats more importantly because the game logic doesnt (and has no space) to change
12:49:30  <V453000> you make money the same way, get profit the same way
12:49:44  <V453000> being able to afford more expensive stuff later on is cute, but for what
12:50:17  <V453000> the complexity of openttd is in constructing, not making profit, anybody can make profit by a long line without anything special
12:51:07  <V453000> !password
12:51:07  <coopserver> V453000: notice
12:51:30  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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12:51:56  <coopserver> <V453000> hm, shitty cpu at work :d
12:52:24  <coopserver> <ryx> if you want to pause it again, go ahead
12:52:55  <coopserver> <V453000> not like that would help anything :P I could save the game and watch it in singleplayer if I wnated to see stopped action
12:54:15  <coopserver> <ryx> there's a ML mixer in MSH03b?
12:54:38  <coopserver> <V453000> I dont know what mixer means
12:54:52  <coopserver> <ryx> i meant, providing paths from some lines to other lines
12:55:06  <coopserver> <V453000> generally caleld choices :P
12:56:09  <coopserver> <ryx> question is: why?
12:56:32  <coopserver> <V453000> the problem of evil mode is jamming bridges, right?
12:56:50  <coopserver> <V453000> that happens because bridges are slowed down
12:56:54  <coopserver> <ryx> aah, so the choice to switch to a different ML can break up evil mode?
12:57:01  <coopserver> <V453000> that happens because they are given prio, means they do not get choices
12:57:14  <coopserver> <V453000> if the track can choose where to go, you dont need a prio there
12:57:19  <coopserver> <V453000> so evil mode simply doesnt exist there
12:57:58  <coopserver> <ryx> interesting
12:58:05  <coopserver> <V453000> it is not absolutely blessed and perfect as trains generally always have to slow down to 0 before starting again, but ...
12:58:11  <coopserver> <V453000> depends on trains a lot
12:58:20  <coopserver> <V453000> but it definitely is one of the options to combat evil mode
12:58:21  <coopserver> <ryx> i was about to type that
12:59:34  <coopserver> <V453000> if it does something, then generally that it removes stress from one line
12:59:41  <coopserver> <V453000> and each line jams a bit instead
12:59:44  <coopserver> <V453000> if you see what I mean
12:59:49  <coopserver> <ryx> yeah
13:00:10  <coopserver> <V453000> thats usually good, but obviously hurts a lot less with stronger trains
13:00:30  <coopserver> <V453000> ps, stronger trains can get into evil mode just as well, it just isnt so easy to observe
13:01:44  <coopserver> <ryx> so, how do we remove the jam at factory drop? add 5th?
13:02:04  <coopserver> <V453000> most likely
13:02:09  <coopserver> <V453000> outgoing lines are quite full
13:02:20  <coopserver> <V453000> though some more de-bridging would help
13:02:41  <coopserver> <ryx> yes, I see that one thing at SLH04c that slows down 03b
13:03:31  <coopserver> <V453000> not rail :D
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13:04:09  <coopserver> <V453000> this is a cl but doesnt slow ML
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13:04:14  <coopserver> <V453000> so I would personally say it is okay
13:04:21  <coopserver> <ryx> meh, I forget to change that setting every time
13:04:33  <coopserver> <ryx> this is exactly what I intended
13:06:31  <coopserver> <V453000> honestly making SL splits have double bridges is quite overkill with fast trains which ahve low density but meh
13:06:39  <coopserver> <ryx> yes
13:06:52  <coopserver> <ryx> it can make sense for a MSH though
13:07:20  <coopserver> <V453000> well mainline hubs are usually something different :) depends
13:08:52  <coopserver> <ryx> train count barely changed from yesterday noon
13:08:52  <coopserver> <V453000> I think it might actually be the first time we are using these trains
13:09:02  <coopserver> <V453000> yeah, still enough to expand
13:09:09  <coopserver> <ryx> why is there more traffic?
13:09:15  <coopserver> <V453000> the train count is quite deceiving, too
13:09:18  <coopserver> <V453000> primaries grew
13:09:23  <coopserver> <V453000> no trains wait at them, they run all the time
13:09:39  <coopserver> <V453000> or well, relatively speaking
13:09:59  <coopserver> <ryx> well, most primaries had at most half a train waiting
13:10:16  <coopserver> <V453000> pretty much
13:10:27  <tyteen4a03> !password
13:10:27  <coopserver> tyteen4a03: denote
13:10:39  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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13:10:44  <coopserver> <ryx> hi
13:10:48  <coopserver> <V453000> mu
13:10:59  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> hi
13:11:43  <coopserver> <ryx> i have trouble understanding why there are slowdowns at MSH05b (which affect SLH15 a little)
13:12:17  <coopserver> <V453000> thats okay really
13:12:24  <coopserver> <V453000> you would need stupidly long prios otherwise
13:12:26  <coopserver> <ryx> just normal merging delays?
13:12:39  <coopserver> <V453000> well the prios are built to let trains slow down a bit
13:12:57  <coopserver> <V453000> if we wanted full prios without slowdown, evil mode would theoretically never happen
13:13:23  <coopserver> <ryx> but we still would have less ML capacity, because only huge gaps between trains could be used
13:13:32  <coopserver> <V453000> yes
13:13:51  <coopserver> <V453000> with worse accelerating trains, it is obviously a lot easier to decide :)
13:14:42  <coopserver> <V453000> there exists a technique to try to split trains over the tracks more intelligently, but hm :)
13:14:49  <coopserver> <ryx> do you think we should have used less SLHs?
13:15:21  <coopserver> <V453000> that doesnt really matter ... yes, trains would run max speed for longer, but at the same time no, it wouldnt change much
13:15:34  <coopserver> <ryx> because expanding is quite a bit of effort
13:15:36  <coopserver> <V453000> same as if you said that ideal network is without hubs cause trains cant slow down there
13:15:46  <coopserver> <V453000> well effort = playing the game? :D
13:16:03  <coopserver> <V453000> see pro zone games, like 21 or 2013 etc if you want to see what effort means
13:16:13  <coopserver> <ryx> I just closed 2013...
13:16:16  <coopserver> <V453000> but well I still call it playing hence fun :P
13:16:31  <coopserver> <ryx> tried to get it to jam, wouldn't jam
13:16:37  <coopserver> <V453000> :DD
13:16:57  <coopserver> <V453000> quite evil effort
13:17:05  <coopserver> <ryx> but it runs at like 2fps for me...
13:17:15  <coopserver> <V453000> yes because it is awesome =D
13:18:51  <coopserver> <V453000> still, good games mean a lot of tracks, which means a lot of playing, fun, and effort :P
13:19:08  <coopserver> <V453000> eventually a lot of planning and fiddling with things to prepare plan/concept/wtf
13:19:34  <coopserver> <ryx> sometimes, I'm too much of an engineer, trying to optimize everything, including own "work time"
13:19:44  <coopserver> <V453000> lol
13:19:48  <coopserver> <V453000> typical lazy human :)
13:20:04  <coopserver> <ryx> hehe
13:20:24  <coopserver> <ryx> today is a holiday where I live
13:20:25  <coopserver> <V453000> unfortunately the successful philosophy of openttd is MOAR, not in shorter time :D
13:21:13  <coopserver> <ryx> btw, how do you think a cross connection in the middle would change the network?
13:21:44  <coopserver> *** V453000 has left the game (Leaving)
13:21:51  <V453000> asdf had to close game, at work :D
13:22:05  <V453000> also, a lot :P
13:22:14  <hylje_> i liek this laot
13:22:16  <hylje_> alot
13:22:19  <coopserver> <ryx> ok
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13:24:25  <zxbiohazardzx> !playercount
13:24:25  <coopserver> zxbiohazardzx: There are currently 2 players and 0 spectators, making a total of 2 clients connected
13:24:32  <zxbiohazardzx> sup everyone
13:24:39  <coopserver> <ryx> hi bio
13:24:42  <zxbiohazardzx> cant play, at university atm :P
13:24:50  <zxbiohazardzx> hows 5th+6th going :P
13:24:57  <coopserver> <ryx> everyone is working. I should too...
13:25:03  <zxbiohazardzx> i know i did 1 hub, and started on the massive one :P
13:25:09  <zxbiohazardzx> haha
13:25:14  <coopserver> <ryx> basically no change
13:25:54  <zxbiohazardzx> fair enough, ill try to fiddle 5th and 6th in when i get home then haha
13:26:13  <zxbiohazardzx> fiddling in 1 is a challenge, but while at it, you might as well go big and add 6th simultaniously for double fun
13:26:31  <coopserver> <ryx> I think it's a good plan to add two at once
13:26:51  <zxbiohazardzx> i managed to do one without bridges on 04 haha
13:26:57  <zxbiohazardzx> but i think MSH03 will be big enough of a pain
13:27:17  <zxbiohazardzx> i think ill just tunnel it all and then see if i can smuggle a bit with CL (shouldnt be an issue) and fiddle it in
13:27:40  <coopserver> <ryx> we removed a bridge at 04 :P
13:27:48  <coopserver> <ryx> (it was on 4th)
13:29:53  <coopserver> <ryx> I need to do some things, bbl
13:30:00  <coopserver> *** ryx has left the game (Leaving)
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13:30:16  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> bye
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16:30:23  <Tray> !password
16:30:23  <coopserver> Tray: builds
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16:42:16  <tyteen4a03> !password
16:42:16  <coopserver> tyteen4a03: drives
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16:42:52  <tyteen4a03> Tray, here now, at least for a while
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17:42:36  <Tray-Sellars> !password
17:42:36  <coopserver> Tray-Sellars: blades
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19:39:01  <zxbiohazardzx> !playercount
19:39:01  <coopserver> zxbiohazardzx: There are currently 0 players and 0 spectators, making a total of 0 clients connected
19:39:04  <zxbiohazardzx> !password
19:39:04  <coopserver> zxbiohazardzx: attack
19:39:08  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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19:42:13  <tyteen4a03> !password
19:42:13  <coopserver> tyteen4a03: tonnes
19:44:51  <tyteen4a03> !password
19:44:51  <coopserver> tyteen4a03: busses
19:44:59  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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19:45:47  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> 4
19:54:06  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> 5th done :)
19:54:08  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> well 1
20:02:59  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> i hate 6th
20:03:05  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> 5th was ok, 6th is gonna be pain
20:03:12  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> long travelpaths, slow choice
20:11:22  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> how the HELL do i get 6th in haha
20:11:33  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> to crammed in center, to much clutter on outsides :(
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20:13:33  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> hahaha got another one out
20:13:37  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> just lowest is the issue now
20:13:44  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> the seminorth is doen
20:16:32  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz anyone have an idea for lowest to 6th?
20:24:45  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> blegh i just see V made 03b harder then i though
20:24:52  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> im only partial to 5/6
20:24:57  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> just wow on it
20:25:02  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> 2/4 are 5/6
20:25:06  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> 2/4 are 4/6
20:42:02  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> ugly but meh
20:43:46  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> wow
20:43:49  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> i think thats it
20:43:57  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> cleanups are allowed, but i think thats it
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20:55:45  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> im out :)
20:55:49  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> gotta go :(
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21:50:25  <zxbiohazardzx> !password
21:50:25  <coopserver> zxbiohazardzx: denied
21:50:31  <zxbiohazardzx> haha awwww
21:50:36  <Taede> lol
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21:50:45  <zxbiohazardzx> hehe
21:50:50  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> soo
21:50:58  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> what you think  of my ugly solution on MSH03
21:51:06  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> 03b that is
21:51:16  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> 03a is next to be dealt with
21:53:09  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> unless v or some other insane person can actually clean up 03b, im ok with it as-is
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21:59:30  <ryx> !players
21:59:47  <ryx> !playercount
21:59:47  <coopserver> ryx: There are currently 1 players and 0 spectators, making a total of 1 clients connected
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23:40:40  <LoPo> hi
23:40:44  <LoPo> !dl win64
23:40:44  <coopserver> LoPo:
23:41:33  <LoPo> @op
23:41:33  *** Webster sets mode: +o LoPo
23:42:28  <LoPo> !password
23:42:28  <coopserver> LoPo: unless
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23:43:17  <coopserver> <LoPo> !unpause
23:43:23  <LoPo> !password
23:43:23  <coopserver> LoPo: unless
23:43:30  <LoPo> !unpause
23:43:31  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
23:45:58  <LoPo> !auto
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