Log for #openttdcoop on 25th February 2014:
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00:00:25  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Unfortunatly I too must go. see you later
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00:21:06  <theholyduck> waty
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00:40:47  <sim-al2> !players
00:40:47  <coopserver> sim-al2: The server is empty, noone is connected. Feel free to remedy this situation
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01:02:34  <Lizz> !password
01:02:34  <coopserver> Lizz: opaque
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01:32:58  <sim-al2> !palyers
01:33:02  <sim-al2> !players
01:33:02  <coopserver> sim-al2: The server is empty, noone is connected. Feel free to remedy this situation
01:39:38  * Lizz is reading the wiki some more
01:39:45  <Lizz> maybe i'm just an idiot but i'm not really getting this so far
01:43:12  <Lizz> i cant tell if half of these bundles of spaghetti were just made to pull my leg
01:43:19  <sim-al2> probably
01:44:12  <sim-al2> nah all this crazy mess is because the north (blue) and south (red) mainlines must connect through a station or every train would just loop endless around those two waypoints
01:44:30  <sim-al2> Just like short circuiting something
01:44:50  <Lizz> oh
01:44:56  <Lizz> i was looking at the junctionary
01:45:03  <sim-al2> In fact that's a perfect metaphor for this game style...
01:45:48  <sim-al2> just watch out: the junctionary is fairly old and really could use some generic tutorials
01:46:39  <sim-al2> You might want to search through the PS game archives and DL and look at some of those junctions in actiom
01:46:43  <sim-al2> *action
01:47:15  <sim-al2>
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01:50:32  <Lizz> yeah
01:50:34  <Lizz> probably a good idea
01:50:38  <Hazzard> Hey hey
01:50:39  <Hazzard> !password
01:50:40  <coopserver> Hazzard: forked
01:50:44  <Lizz> i was looking through those and figured it'd be a better way to learn how to train
01:50:47  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
01:50:51  <Lizz> do you have any recommendations for good ones to look at
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01:51:05  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Ooh
01:51:50  <sim-al2> Public Server Game 265 has some nice stuff, and is a pax game (but not SRNW)
01:52:00  <sim-al2>
01:52:36  <sim-al2> writeup at
01:52:44  <sim-al2> !password
01:52:45  <coopserver> sim-al2: forked
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01:53:29  <coopserver> <Hazzard> brb
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01:53:34  <coopserver> <sim-al2> ok
01:55:53  <Hazzard> !password
01:55:54  <coopserver> Hazzard: ailist
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01:57:09  <coopserver> <Hazzard> wtfffff
01:57:22  <coopserver> <sim-al2> waht?
01:58:31  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Man
01:58:35  <coopserver> <Hazzard> V's station
01:58:40  <coopserver> <sim-al2> oh
01:58:52  <coopserver> <sim-al2> I understand your reaction...
02:01:20  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I'm going to have to up my logic
02:01:26  <coopserver> <Hazzard> at least a little bit
02:01:44  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Build your own laundromat? :)
02:02:52  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Right now, the logic isn't doing shit anyway
02:03:38  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I think I ought to make it block drop off trains if the station has pax
02:04:06  <coopserver> <sim-al2> What about station ratings though?
02:04:12  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Also, are there supposed to be waiting pax at STUFF?
02:04:21  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Keep the feeder towns happy
02:04:49  <coopserver> <Hazzard> ML trains already can't handle the feeders
02:05:08  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Yeah there's too "STUFF"s, one for the buses and another for everything else
02:05:13  <coopserver> <sim-al2> *two
02:05:53  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I feel like it has "wait for ML train" logic in it, but there are wating trains
02:06:02  <coopserver> <Hazzard> not waiting
02:06:06  <coopserver> <Hazzard> let me re type that
02:06:33  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I dunno
02:06:56  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I suppose V would be the only person who knows anyway
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02:13:14  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I guess V's station just seems to have a massive number of waiting people just because the dummy volume is so massive
02:14:37  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I think I understand it now
02:16:58  <Lizz> oh ok
02:17:19  <Lizz> i already got a neato idea from this public server save sim-al2
02:17:28  <coopserver> <sim-al2> uh ok
02:17:30  <Lizz> with the small terminus stations feeding the bigger roro ones
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02:28:48  <Hazzard> !password
02:28:49  <coopserver> Hazzard: stupid
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02:45:09  <phatmatt> !players
02:45:09  <coopserver> phatmatt: There are currently 2 players and 0 spectators, making a total of 2 clients connected
02:47:31  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I think I'll redo my station
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03:13:26  <Hazzard> !password
03:13:26  <coopserver> Hazzard: nsview
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03:18:53  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Hmm, distribution is suprisingly even
03:45:48  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Can presignal bypass ever screw up?
03:47:22  <coopserver> <Hazzard> whoops
03:47:36  <coopserver> <Hazzard> there goes one of my logic trains
03:47:39  <coopserver> <Hazzard> and another
03:47:44  <coopserver> <Hazzard> lol
04:20:26  <Sylf> who said the taboo word?
04:20:41  <Hazzard> Hmm?
04:20:51  <Sylf> presignal bypass has been made obsolete
04:20:57  <coopserver> <Hazzard> :o
04:21:03  <coopserver> <Hazzard> How so?
04:21:24  <Sylf> simple 2-way eol does the better job
04:21:51  <Hazzard> this?
04:23:48  <Sylf> !password
04:23:49  <coopserver> Sylf: german
04:24:04  <Sylf> yes, that's too old
04:24:24  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
04:24:27  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Didn't have the flag, thought it was still valid
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04:25:16  <coopserver> <Sylf> hm
04:25:24  <coopserver> <Sylf> you need some trains stopped with presignals....
04:25:52  <coopserver> <Sylf> oh, I know
04:26:34  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Also at the entrance of the drop for SRNW
04:26:42  <coopserver> <Hazzard> That's where I already added it
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04:28:26  <coopserver> <Sylf> see, that's normally more effective than PSB
04:28:47  <coopserver> <Hazzard> pbs?
04:28:54  <coopserver> <Sylf> Pre Signal Bypass
04:28:59  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Oh
04:29:00  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Right
04:30:22  <coopserver> <Sylf> time to build more cities in the south
04:30:44  <coopserver> <Hazzard> The balance actually isn't that bad
04:30:48  <coopserver> <sim-al2> My Gufingburg city area is putting out around 12000 pax
04:30:52  <coopserver> <sim-al2> per month
04:30:58  <coopserver> <Hazzard> With my station disconnected trains were piling up in north
04:31:09  <coopserver> <Sylf> we need separate area
04:32:04  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Sennton has a nice flat area to the west
04:32:31  <coopserver> <Sylf> I'm thinking either around Trondfingley
04:32:41  <coopserver> <Sylf> or to the north of Pinhill, found a new city
04:32:49  <coopserver> <Sylf> probably both
04:33:09  <coopserver> <Sylf> gotta balance STUFF >:D
04:34:01  <coopserver> <Sylf> hmmm
04:34:11  <coopserver> <Sylf> lol
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04:34:17  <coopserver> <Sylf> wtf is train 34 doing
04:34:34  <coopserver> <Hazzard> It escaped
04:34:36  <coopserver> <sim-al2> wtf is that there
04:34:40  <coopserver> <sim-al2> lol
04:34:45  <coopserver> <sim-al2> LOL
04:34:51  <coopserver> <sim-al2> that ran through the network?
04:34:54  <coopserver> <Hazzard> And then it was gone
04:35:05  <coopserver> <sim-al2> 2000 km/h baby!
04:40:09  <coopserver> <Hazzard> My station is now flood-proof
04:40:27  <coopserver> <sim-al2> *engages flood*
04:40:46  <coopserver> <Hazzard> With pax being the "flood"
04:41:14  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Now I just need to wait for 1.7mill pax to be transported away....
04:41:37  <phatmatt> !password
04:41:37  <coopserver> phatmatt: aspect
04:41:41  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Sylf, how would an overflow be added to this entrance?
04:42:17  <coopserver> <sim-al2> uh doesn't the big overflow right next to the current entrance do that already?
04:42:33  <coopserver> <Hazzard> At Sluntborugh feeder
04:42:42  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Wait
04:42:46  <coopserver> <sim-al2> whoops
04:42:49  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I don't need this if I have an overflow
04:42:51  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Silly me
04:43:00  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
04:43:05  <coopserver> <Sylf> hmmm
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04:43:13  <coopserver> <Sylf> what kind of srnw system shall we build...
04:56:15  <coopserver> <phatmatt> ahaha
04:56:34  <coopserver> <phatmatt> seeing V's STUFF block of houses just makes me lol for real
04:56:55  <coopserver> <phatmatt> the nature preserve sign tops it off
04:57:46  <coopserver> <sim-al2> I love how this turn-of-the-century town set has that modern office building in it
04:57:47  <coopserver> <Hazzard> How large should the signal gap be for the ML injection #2?
05:01:12  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Sylf, can you do the presignal bypass thing with the Sluntborugh entrance?
05:01:55  <coopserver> <Sylf> the version I had?
05:02:45  <coopserver> <Sylf> like that?
05:02:59  <coopserver> <Sylf> or even simpler
05:03:00  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Does that work?
05:03:13  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I don't know b/c I deleted the old when when i added the overflow
05:03:36  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Cool, thanks
05:03:42  <coopserver> <Sylf> the overflow one is better
05:04:52  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I think we need a new wiki
05:05:41  <Hazzard> Like wtf is this
05:06:21  <Sylf> that's from 2005...
05:06:31  <Hazzard> I know
05:07:02  <Sylf> much of what we build today are probably crazy in 2005 sanity
05:12:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> any helper available?
05:12:21  <coopserver> <Hazzard> ?
05:12:41  <coopserver> <Sylf> I need a hub built while I'm working on the logic
05:17:47  <coopserver> <Hazzard> :(
05:18:17  <coopserver> *** sim-al2 has joined spectators
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05:25:07  <sim-al2> night all
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05:25:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> gn
05:25:15  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Cya
05:26:12  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Slowling putting everyone in jail...
05:26:30  <coopserver> <Sylf> :P
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05:28:40  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Ok, you want a hub built?
05:29:10  <coopserver> <Sylf> sure, at !hub here
05:32:04  <coopserver> <Sylf> hmm
05:32:08  <coopserver> <Sylf> this system is gonna fail
05:33:47  <coopserver> <Hazzard> D:
05:33:59  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I'm not very good at this game
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05:44:06  <coopserver> <Sylf> this should work in theory....
05:46:35  <coopserver> *** phatmatt has left the game (general timeout)
05:56:39  <V453000> !password
05:56:39  <coopserver> V453000: encode
05:56:55  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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05:57:01  <coopserver> <V453000> heyoooo
05:57:10  <coopserver> <Sylf> yoh
05:57:36  <coopserver> <V453000> WTF :D
05:57:42  <coopserver> <V453000> tall city buildings everywhere
05:57:45  <coopserver> <V453000> this is treachery
05:57:50  <coopserver> <V453000> no way to hold that throughput
05:57:52  <coopserver> <V453000> :D
05:58:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> like you didn't know this was coming!
05:58:25  <coopserver> <V453000> I expected considerably more small houses.
05:58:38  <coopserver> <V453000> but lets see I think I can adapt the logic to work a bit differently
05:58:42  <coopserver> <V453000> later
05:58:55  <coopserver> <V453000> lets see if ML can be expanded before that :P
06:00:09  <coopserver> <V453000> what are you building anyway
06:00:45  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I changed my station in responce to the huge lack of ML trains north
06:02:53  <coopserver> <V453000> :>
06:03:05  <coopserver> <V453000> also yes Hazzard, that is justa delayer from pzg2013 :)
06:03:19  <coopserver> <V453000> makes the 5 dummies go together
06:03:52  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I was thinking about something like that
06:03:55  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Cool
06:04:34  <coopserver> <V453000> there are many ways to do it, this one is the most precise
06:07:16  <coopserver> <V453000> in general it is just a thing which has memories to remember amount of trains which should be let to go in, rest is just logic to make sure it works (dummies wait for loading till all memories are red and no platform is occupied, and they reset the memories after loading so trains can go in again, and fill the station before any train could arrive... and then wait for memories to get red again
06:07:17  <coopserver> <V453000> ez
06:07:32  <coopserver> <V453000> there is just a lot of shit but it isnt anything terribly complicated
06:07:35  <coopserver> <V453000> there are worse things
06:08:02  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Yeah, ofc :)
06:11:01  <coopserver> <Sylf> meh. let this fail.
06:11:59  <coopserver> <V453000> we should have used chameleons :D:D:D
06:12:06  <coopserver> <V453000> proper wagons
06:13:49  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I'm starting to get impatient
06:14:02  <coopserver> <V453000> ?
06:14:25  <coopserver> <Hazzard> This may possibly not be the best way to remove people from a station
06:15:27  <coopserver> <V453000> just make a good enough main ML station and it will disappear sooner or later if your throughput is good enogh
06:20:18  <coopserver> <V453000> your logic seems to work nicely, just add more platforms id say
06:22:00  <coopserver> <V453000> well
06:22:05  <coopserver> <V453000> the key problem is no trains from ML really
06:22:26  <coopserver> <Hazzard> As soon as I get rid of the extra pax the logic will take over
06:22:27  <coopserver> <V453000> the current temporary solution is cute but it will get back to broken state sooner or later
06:22:34  <coopserver> <Sylf> that's why I'm building more in the south
06:22:38  <coopserver> <V453000> y
06:22:45  <coopserver> <Hazzard> logic will take over
06:22:59  <coopserver> <V453000> I think ML expansion (like doubling the whole thing) will also be necessary
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06:27:12  <coopserver> <Hazzard> The major limitation I find with the openttd chat is that it's very hard for more than one conversation to be held at the same time. TS wouldn't fix that
06:28:54  <coopserver> <V453000> depends, sometime people talk about multiple things at the same time
06:38:30  <coopserver> <V453000> I gtg
06:38:32  <coopserver> <V453000> byez :)
06:38:36  <coopserver> *** V453000 has left the game (Leaving)
06:38:38  <coopserver> <Hazzard> cya
06:42:04  <coopserver> <Hazzard> 200k left
06:43:11  <coopserver> <Sylf> farm complete
06:46:48  <V453000> farm? :D
06:46:57  <V453000> !password
06:46:58  <coopserver> V453000: forces
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06:47:13  <coopserver> <Hazzard> hwua?
06:47:21  <coopserver> <V453000> oh :)
06:47:25  <coopserver> <V453000> emu farm :D
06:47:51  <coopserver> <V453000> nice and easy (: perhaps a delayer to make sure everything starts from a stop would make sense, but .. (:
06:48:28  <coopserver> <V453000> aha I remember now the ML trains ahve to unload first anyway
06:48:30  <coopserver> <V453000> good for timing :)
06:48:38  <coopserver> <Sylf> yup
06:50:58  <coopserver> <V453000> I think we can just build another ML a bit far away
06:51:07  <coopserver> <V453000> like not exactly expanding, simply building one more :D
06:51:22  <coopserver> <V453000> with all the choices etc, but like going around towns etc
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06:53:21  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Look at ML injection 2....
06:53:53  <coopserver> <V453000> yes but we still need to expand it at some point :)
06:54:39  <coopserver> <Sylf> that's what happens with a wrong signal
06:54:39  <coopserver> <V453000> well lets see what can be done in the evening :)
06:54:41  <coopserver> <V453000> off to work
06:54:42  <coopserver> <V453000> cyaz
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06:56:47  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Alright, cya guys tomorrow
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07:01:42  <Sylf> !unpause
07:01:44  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
07:02:50  <Sylf> !auto
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07:47:15  <phatmatt> !players
07:47:15  <coopserver> phatmatt: The server is empty, noone is connected. Feel free to remedy this situation
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11:55:43  <Webster> Latest update from openttd: OpenTTD 1.4.0-beta5 <>
11:56:23  <planetmaker> !revision
11:56:23  <coopserver> planetmaker: Game version is r26315. Use Download <os-version> to get a direct download link.
11:56:39  <planetmaker> !update
11:56:40  <coopserver> Starting update...
11:56:42  <coopserver> planetmaker: Something went wrong executing make or svn. Please run manually and see what goes wrong
11:56:46  <planetmaker> ach?
11:57:24  <planetmaker> But I'm quite impressed. The error messages are nicely verbose :)
12:02:42  <theholyduck> 4096x4096 maps eh..
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12:02:53  <theholyduck> i thought 2048x2048 was allready impossibly absurdly large
12:02:55  <V453000> yeah that is useful
12:03:18  <V453000> making people go even more retarded, why not
12:03:28  <V453000> doesnt touch us :)
12:03:45  <theholyduck> well, i asume theres been some engine improvements to rendering speed
12:03:50  <theholyduck> sicne the last time i played with openttd stable
12:03:54  <theholyduck> if they can do that large maps now
12:04:07  <V453000> I dont think openttd got any easier on cpu
12:04:12  <V453000> more like the opposite
12:04:20  <theholyduck> V453000, but, did they add threading?
12:04:26  <theholyduck> cause, that was the big issue back then
12:04:29  <theholyduck> everything ran in a single thread
12:04:35  <V453000> running even 1k x 1k wrecks every pc
12:04:40  <V453000> yes, is still taht way
12:04:57  <V453000> or, more specifically, some details are on 2nd core, but pathfinding is still 1 thread
12:05:03  <V453000> (pathfinding is like 90%)
12:05:05  <V453000> or more
12:05:11  <theholyduck> V453000, well, most people dont run that many trains though :P
12:05:37  <V453000> sure but the retards use e.g. FIRS or ECS, and shitload of towns, plus a gamescript, and you get major problems even with 0 trains
12:05:43  <V453000> 2048x2048
12:06:04  <theholyduck> :P
12:06:16  <phatmatt> what's the new max map size?
12:06:19  * phatmatt is lazy
12:06:37  <phatmatt> oh, 4kx4k
12:06:37  <theholyduck> 4096x4096 according to the 1.4.0-beta5 post
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12:07:30  <V453000> the only thing which is thinkable about is like trying e.g. 128x4096, question is why. On long maps the only real possible network design is one long ML, nothing else.
12:07:48  <V453000> I will just happily ignore the feature if you dont mind
12:08:00  <theholyduck> i dont forsee ever using it either :P
12:08:21  <V453000> honestly, even 256x256 is enough for a solid network
12:08:25  <theholyduck> but, theres so many people who play boring games on 2048 maps.
12:08:30  <theholyduck> and just make a line from 1 end of the map to the other
12:08:32  <theholyduck> transporting coal
12:08:34  <V453000> 512x512 is for big coop play already possible to demolish any CPU
12:08:48  <V453000> well if they enjoy making a long line, well, up to them
12:09:06  <theholyduck> V453000, i asume the 4096 map is for them :P
12:09:14  <theholyduck> now instead of having just 100 trains for that 1 route
12:09:18  <theholyduck> they get to have 200 trains
12:09:21  <phatmatt> yay, they kept my code working with the new map size
12:09:25  <V453000> I guess :D but idiocy is infinite, 4096 wont be enough
12:12:13  <V453000> I should someday play a game with 5000 trains on 512x512
12:13:05  <theholyduck> i know its a tough problem, but it would be great if they one day found a way to thread openttd propperly
12:13:07  <V453000> pzg2013 is valid but the parking lot sort of game is a bit not a big proof, and pzg21 has 3000 of asiastars which probably is enough for 5000 well accelerating trains on the same network, but the number just isnt there :|
12:13:22  <V453000> mhm :P
12:13:35  <V453000> would be interesting
12:13:45  <V453000> but at the same time not really necessary easy
12:13:47  <theholyduck> i mean, i got myself an i7, so i got god single threaded performance
12:14:04  <V453000> playing on smaller maps means you can fill it more, which asks for more dense building, which motivates for better building
12:14:06  <phatmatt> theholyduck: i know i'm not alone in having nerd wet dreams about a fully parallel openttd (and why not make the sim only on the servers, and add multiple server clustering for load balancing/map size)
12:14:10  <theholyduck> but, i got even more godly m ultithreaded performnace
12:14:12  <V453000> so "all bad is for something good"
12:14:23  <phatmatt> but it's just too much work ofc
12:14:42  <theholyduck> phatmatt, i would imagine it to require a massive and total restructure and rewrite
12:14:44  <theholyduck> of most of the codebase
12:14:48  <phatmatt> mm
12:15:11  <phatmatt> i mean, right now the code uses a global that gets moved around when other companies do actions
12:15:14  <phatmatt> a *global*
12:15:35  <phatmatt> (to show which company is doing the action)
12:16:01  <phatmatt> it still shows its assembly heritage
12:16:25  <phatmatt> (and then you have the full-on template-using c++ in yapf and whatever, so weird)
12:16:29  <theholyduck> some of the best software i know is written in part in assembly :P
12:16:34  <theholyduck> x264 for instance :P
12:16:48  <phatmatt> oh yeah, not criticizing (getting deja vu, i think you've brought up x264 before?)
12:17:00  <theholyduck> phatmatt, probably :P assembly = speed if done correctly
12:18:25  <phatmatt> i wonder how amenable openttd++ would be to GPU processing
12:18:36  <phatmatt> not for the graphics, but for the pathfinding and simulation etc
12:19:29  <phatmatt> things like acceleration/speed updates would be at least
12:19:37  <phatmatt> (for vehicles)
12:19:42  <phatmatt> i'll shut up now
12:19:45  <theholyduck> phatmatt, problem is, its hard to keep sync when offloading certain parts
12:19:48  <theholyduck> to the gpu
12:19:57  <phatmatt> yeah, ofc
12:20:12  <theholyduck> i dont know too well how the pathfinding in openttd works
12:20:19  <V453000> omg nerds
12:20:33  <theholyduck> but, i asume its non-linear enough
12:20:38  <theholyduck> to be gpu offloaded to some extent
12:20:45  <phatmatt> you'd do all this rewrite and amazing work and algorithms and shit and the first comment will be "why is it not 3d" or some bullshit
12:20:57  <theholyduck> im mostly familiar with gpu offloading of video processing, which is basicly impossible.
12:20:59  <phatmatt> well it's more the parallelism
12:21:05  <theholyduck> because, video is linear
12:21:15  <phatmatt> the accleration calculation is the same thing just on a lot of vehicles each tick
12:21:15  <theholyduck> and gpus are brute force parralell
12:21:20  <phatmatt> right
12:21:54  <phatmatt> well, yeah. if you have a parallel workload, gpus are hotshit
12:22:18  <theholyduck> phatmatt, the next generation of amd APUS after this one though
12:22:20  <phatmatt> since for video decoding and stuff, that's not parallel in an easy way
12:22:27  <theholyduck> is going to have good ways of syncing cpu and gpu workloads
12:22:28  <phatmatt> but computer graphics, the rendering side, is
12:22:29  <theholyduck> for threading stuff
12:22:35  <phatmatt> yeah
12:22:36  <theholyduck> i think it would be more viable there
12:22:41  <theholyduck> than on current systems
12:22:41  <phatmatt> it's going to come full circle
12:22:55  <phatmatt> first it was cpus only, then gpus specialized out, and now cpu+gpu is gonna merge again
12:23:48  <phatmatt> just to go full nerd, do you know much x86/amd64 assembly?
12:24:00  <phatmatt> or arm?
12:24:00  <theholyduck> phatmatt, i dunno how intrested you are, but this is a pretty good talks of the difficulties of gpu accelerating cpu workloads
12:24:12  <theholyduck> with a focus on video
12:24:13  <theholyduck>
12:24:13  <Webster> Title: OpenCL Acceleration of x264 at AFDS 2012, Length: 37m 48s, Views: 2806, Likes: 21
12:24:28  <phatmatt> alright, i might take a look later
12:24:30  <theholyduck> phatmatt, i know how it works to some degree, but i cant write it
12:24:45  <phatmatt> alright, never mind :)
12:25:24  <phatmatt> my favourite use of careful optimization, not really gpu but cpu stuff, is in the GMP
12:25:37  <theholyduck> but yeah, essentially the solution was to make the gpu run a seperate, "Lookahead" thread, that doesnt need to sync with the rest of the process. and just needs to run faster than it
12:25:40  <phatmatt> they do crazy analysis to eke out top performance
12:26:14  <theholyduck> phatmatt, x264 has a system for automatically loading the correct version of each function, in various forms of handwritten assembly
12:26:15  <V453000> I will remind you of this conversation when you insult my simple openttd constructions :P
12:26:22  <V453000> nerdzzz
12:26:31  <theholyduck> based on which cpu extension is faster
12:26:32  <theholyduck> on which cpu
12:26:51  <theholyduck> so like, the mmx version is faster on 1 cpu, but the sse2 version is faster on another
12:26:58  <theholyduck> even though both support mmx and sse2
12:27:06  <phatmatt> yeah GMP does that too
12:27:21  <phatmatt>
12:27:22  <Webster> Title: GMP assembly chart (at
12:27:29  <phatmatt> each column is a cpu they specialize for
12:28:03  <phatmatt> V453000: your logic stuff is more programming than you realize :P
12:28:28  <phatmatt> i mean, logic obviously already is, but i mean the style of thinking you need to get it working right
12:28:33  <phatmatt> w/e
12:28:56  <theholyduck> phatmatt lots of good reading here aswell
12:28:58  <V453000> NO. ! :D
12:29:25  <phatmatt> yeah i read the x264 blog stuff sometimes
12:29:40  <phatmatt> mainly when they're slagging off other video codecs and stuff
12:30:01  <phatmatt> oh, i know something relevant
12:30:01  <theholyduck> phatmatt, well, i know steve jobs linked his article on why vp8 is a bit silly :P
12:30:19  <phatmatt> oh, he did? that's cool
12:30:45  <phatmatt> a bunch of russians are reversh engineering the PS1, down to the silicon level
12:31:07  <phatmatt> like, they work from huge pictures of the polysilicon layers from a decapped chip
12:31:23  <phatmatt> they've found the MDEC decoder circuits (video decoding)
12:31:39  <phatmatt> so if you want more video/hardwave stuff to checkout, you might wanna look at that :P
12:31:54  <theholyduck> ;D
12:31:56  <phatmatt> hmm
12:32:08  <theholyduck> well, thats what gpu accelerated video decoding is :P
12:32:08  <phatmatt>
12:32:09  <Webster> Title: MDEC — PSXDEV (at
12:32:14  <phatmatt> (get your google translate on)
12:32:21  <theholyduck> normal gpus are too slow to really decode video in real time
12:32:33  <phatmatt> but i mean, shit.
12:32:34  <Webster> Title: Стандартные ячейки (at
12:32:46  <theholyduck> so, when you accelerate the video decoding with the gpu, its just using a piece of silicion designed for video decoding
12:32:59  <phatmatt> they literally work from pictures of the circuits that electrons run through. it's so small that they have to account for the relative size of positive vs. negative charges
12:33:03  <theholyduck> phatmatt, some pretty cool stuff.
12:33:03  <phatmatt> so cool
12:33:34  <phatmatt>
12:33:35  <Webster> Title: Скачать (at
12:34:10  <phatmatt> the orangey chip pic at the bottom is the GPU :P
12:34:59  <phatmatt> and yeah, it's not very parallel, the MDEC stuff
12:35:18  <phatmatt> it's just really hardware video decoding in serial, just because the MIPS core would be too slow to do it in software
12:35:25  <phatmatt> it does a macroblock at a time
12:35:31  <phatmatt> 2 clock cycles per block
12:35:41  <phatmatt> and spits it out via DMA
12:35:56  <theholyduck> old school embedded engineering is generally pretty cool
12:36:45  <phatmatt> yeah. have you seen visual6502? old news by now
12:37:14  <theholyduck> that oldschool computer thing?
12:37:24  <phatmatt> the 6502 chip is so nice, because a human designed it and they've gone to great lengths to simplify it to reduces costs + manufacturing defects
12:37:58  <phatmatt> but the PS1 is basically compiled like you compile source code to ASM, except it's with verilog to a chip layout (the huge mess in those cpu pics)
12:38:02  <phatmatt> yeah, the chip from the nes
12:38:09  <phatmatt>
12:38:10  <Webster> Title: (at
12:38:38  <phatmatt> you can emulate it in your browser w/ javascript. once again, so cool
12:38:51  <V453000> My beliefs that I am in a channel with normal people just went poof.
12:39:28  <phatmatt> with meech in .stable, there is no more sanity left
12:39:33  <theholyduck> phatmatt i really enjoy projects like this :P
12:39:34  <Webster> Title: Discrete Digital Logic Circuits: ASAP-3 - Almost Simple As Possible Computer 3 (at
12:39:35  <phatmatt> lucky for you i am going to bed, so goodnight
12:39:54  <V453000> meech is innocent in this
12:40:06  <phatmatt> oh cool, TTL logic :P
12:40:28  <theholyduck> and one of the many crazy wirewrap computers
12:40:29  <Webster> Title: D16.html (at
12:40:30  <theholyduck> people built
12:41:02  <theholyduck> or this one :P
12:41:03  <Webster> Title: Overview (at
12:41:19  <phatmatt> ah yeah i've seen that magic1 one
12:41:23  <phatmatt> those are tres cool
12:41:34  <phatmatt> and it runs minix lol
12:41:37  <phatmatt> i forgot that
12:41:56  <phatmatt> seriously, if something is turing complete, a nerd is going to make a cpu on it
12:42:12  <phatmatt> openttd, minecraft, water + pipes, marbles + gravity, ...
12:42:13  <V453000> LOL
12:42:42  <V453000> reminds me of a quote "if it exists, there surely is porn of it on the internet"
12:42:54  <phatmatt> rule 34
12:43:33  <theholyduck> V453000, so, i recently visited the czech republic, and you guys sure love your beer
12:44:03  <V453000> O
12:44:06  <phatmatt> unfff
12:44:06  <Webster> Title: Marble adding machine, Length: 3m 34s, Views: 1760029, Likes: 6331
12:44:06  <theholyduck> for people like me who doesnt like beer, it was actually a genuine problem
12:44:08  <V453000> fuck of course
12:44:18  <theholyduck> cause it was impossible to get almost anything else
12:45:20  <V453000> yes.
12:46:02  <V453000> where are you from anyway?
12:46:11  <theholyduck> norway
12:46:33  <V453000> aha :)
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13:29:22  <sim-al2> !password'
13:29:25  <sim-al2> !password
13:29:25  <coopserver> sim-al2: unless
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13:45:51  <planetmaker> re 4096^2 maps: yes, that's absurdley large. But meh, it's possible without any other modifications than changing that constant in the source
13:46:03  <planetmaker> (and 8192 is not possible without many further changes)
13:46:14  <planetmaker> so... let those people simply have fun
13:46:25  <planetmaker> and... for lulz we could try 4096 x 128 ;)
13:46:30  <V453000> :D I understand that
13:46:40  <planetmaker> or x 64 maybe :)
13:46:59  <V453000> idk, perhaps someone, I am not interested
13:47:09  <planetmaker> I found the game we plate recently with NoCarGoal on a 2048 x 128 map quite nice :)
13:47:15  <planetmaker> s/plate/played/
13:49:23  <V453000> we just basically never play long maps because it means only one valid network design - long straight ML
13:49:28  <V453000> but I am not stopping anyone :)
13:51:25  <Sylf> yeah, you're the one who made 7-ring ML design on 1024x256 map about 80 games ago
13:51:34  <Sylf> you were already complaining about long map back then
13:52:02  <V453000> well 256 is still nice
13:52:16  <V453000> I meant 128 or 64 in this case (so the other dimension is 2048 or 4096)
13:52:47  <V453000> but yeah 198 was fun (:
13:53:00  <planetmaker> it can make for a nice SML game on long maps
13:53:04  <planetmaker> they're well suitable for that
13:53:21  <V453000> nobody has been interested in playing SML for like 100 games
13:53:23  <planetmaker> and just one giant loop, maybe two or three loops
13:53:30  <V453000> copypaste copypaste copypaste more shifters :)
13:54:13  <V453000> 173 was SML, since then probably only 207?
13:54:33  <Sylf> was that the pax sml srnw
13:54:43  <V453000> yes
13:55:02  <V453000> well we had that in another game too, more recently, but that is very different :)
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13:55:44  <Absolutis> !players
13:55:44  <coopserver> Absolutis: The server is empty, noone is connected. Feel free to remedy this situation
13:55:46  <V453000> yeah 253 eventually
13:55:46  <Absolutis> !password
13:55:47  <coopserver> Absolutis: usable
13:56:09  <Absolutis> it would be kind of nice to hear context of that
13:56:11  <Absolutis> :P
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13:57:00  <coopserver> <Absolutis> @@lohd
13:57:03  <coopserver> <Absolutis> @@logs
13:57:05  <Webster> #openttdcoop IRC webstuff - IRC Log Viewer -
13:57:27  <Absolutis> i wonder if webster still hates me
13:57:28  <Absolutis> @logs
13:57:34  <Absolutis> yup
13:57:40  <V453000> LOL
13:59:13  <coopserver> <Absolutis> "nature preserve"
13:59:27  <V453000> not my fault the people moved there
13:59:30  <V453000> fuking humans
14:00:23  <coopserver> <Absolutis> you seem to like these ml-train-straight-in-town kind of stations
14:01:07  <V453000> it is clean :)
14:01:46  <coopserver> <Absolutis> emu farm :D
14:01:50  <V453000> the first one is a lot more flexible and imo better, second is just something a little bit new
14:01:51  <V453000> yes :)
14:02:02  <V453000> will need more ostriches though!
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14:14:21  <coopserver> <Absolutis> the ml injection 1 area seems a bit crowded
14:14:52  <coopserver> <Absolutis> with 2 of your slh's, the ml, the injection, and SBahns on all sides
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16:57:37  <Maraxus> !password
16:57:38  <coopserver> Maraxus: casing
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17:57:24  <leg3nd> !password
17:57:25  <coopserver> leg3nd: tcache
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20:37:05  <V453000> ;!password
20:37:10  <V453000> !password
20:37:10  <coopserver> V453000: lenght
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20:37:43  <coopserver> <V453000> moo moo moo moo moo
20:38:22  * Jam35 makes sound of dolphin
20:38:29  <coopserver> <V453000> hyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
20:38:39  <Jam35> yes :)
20:38:49  <coopserver> <V453000> how about we add a new ML
20:39:04  <coopserver> <V453000> not touching current one, just is given choices to split as the current one, and trains can join it the same way
20:39:06  <coopserver> <V453000> another 3 lines
20:39:19  <coopserver> <V453000> sometimes next to the current ML, sometimes going around towns where necessary
20:39:28  <Jam35> just a sec...
20:39:35  <coopserver> <V453000> I will take some food anyway
20:39:36  <coopserver> <V453000> no worriez
20:40:30  <Jam35> !password
20:40:30  <coopserver> Jam35: choose
20:40:35  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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20:43:24  <coopserver> <V453000> I do blue you red?
20:43:47  <Jam35> too much lag here atm
20:44:12  <Jam35> moments of clarity but mostly not
20:44:26  <coopserver> <V453000> well then I do blue in the meantime :D
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20:46:33  <TallMan> !password
20:46:33  <coopserver> TallMan: choose
20:46:39  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has left the game (general timeout)
20:46:39  <coopserver> *** Game paused (number of players)
20:46:43  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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20:46:51  <Jam35> oh jeez :)
20:47:34  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
20:47:34  <coopserver> <V453000> hello
20:47:41  <coopserver> <TallManNL> Hi
20:47:42  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has joined
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20:47:44  <Jam35> trying again
20:48:18  <Jam35> !vehicles
20:48:18  <coopserver> Jam35: Total vehicles per type: Rail: 717, Road: 9, Water: 0, Air: 0
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20:53:55  <Jam35> not happening
20:54:01  <coopserver> <V453000> myeah :|
20:54:08  <coopserver> <V453000> cpu?
20:54:54  <Jam35> most likely :)
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21:39:31  <Hazzard> YAOoooowasssssup
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21:45:43  <Hazzard> !players
21:45:43  <coopserver> Hazzard: The server is empty, noone is connected. Feel free to remedy this situation
21:48:11  <Hazzard> D:
21:50:39  *** sim-al2 has joined #openttdcoop
21:50:41  <sim-al2> !password
21:50:42  <coopserver> sim-al2: closer
21:50:49  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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21:57:20  <V453000> !password
21:57:20  <coopserver> V453000: costly
21:57:28  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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21:57:30  <coopserver> <V453000> hi
21:57:33  <coopserver> <sim-al2> hi
22:00:31  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Lol new city: "Emu Farm"
22:00:39  <coopserver> <V453000> :)
22:01:28  <coopserver> <sim-al2> I'm beginning to wonder if my main station has enough capacity
22:01:54  <coopserver> <V453000> Deningham?
22:02:09  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Yeah it looks like its getting close
22:02:49  <coopserver> <V453000> yeah that might be a tad small
22:03:04  <coopserver> <V453000> probably needs considerably more than 6 platforms
22:03:06  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Hm will have to work on that later
22:03:31  <coopserver> <V453000> if you look at my town, I have some 9 separate platforms for 30k population and it works jut fine
22:03:40  <coopserver> <V453000> 6 for 50k then sounds not enough ;)
22:03:48  <coopserver> <V453000> it cant be compared in 1:1, but just roughly
22:04:31  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Lol Tudinghead has three million waiting...
22:04:44  <coopserver> <V453000> mhm
22:05:46  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Also why does S.T.U.F.F. have mail trucks?
22:06:05  <coopserver> <V453000> just for faster growth as there is only 1 station otherwise
22:06:08  <coopserver> <V453000> and not to take pax
22:06:11  <coopserver> <sim-al2> ah ok
22:10:50  <coopserver> <sim-al2> I noticed that Jam's SRNW s-bahn doesn't seem to generate high station ratings in some parts
22:11:39  <coopserver> <sim-al2> I thought the SRNW was intended to help with that?
22:11:44  <coopserver> <V453000> which town?
22:11:50  <coopserver> <V453000> srnw is irrelevant to station ratings
22:11:50  <coopserver> <sim-al2> "Great Wartwood"
22:12:03  <coopserver> <V453000> right
22:12:06  <coopserver> <sim-al2> station of the same name
22:12:18  <coopserver> <V453000> well since trains arent loading at all times, slow trains are visiting, and they arent visiting often, there cant be high station rating :)
22:12:29  <coopserver> <V453000> SRNW is just made to service X stations with one group of trains automatically
22:12:31  <coopserver> <V453000> nothing more :)
22:12:55  <coopserver> <sim-al2> true, but the wiki seems to go on about how that would make better service easier
22:13:12  <coopserver> <V453000> where?
22:14:08  <sim-al2>
22:14:30  <V453000> old page :|
22:14:40  <V453000> the old pages often contain wrong info
22:14:41  <sim-al2> ah ok
22:14:57  <coopserver> <sim-al2> seems like a great idea
22:15:13  <coopserver> <V453000> but in this case it is valid
22:15:23  <coopserver> <V453000> of course if build properly, service is good
22:15:32  <coopserver> <V453000> but that IF is there for all things, not just this
22:16:03  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Would it be better if the exit of each station led straight back as opposed to the waypoint-and-loop idea going on now?
22:16:08  <coopserver> <V453000> the thing Jam35 has there is simply not performing as it should
22:16:25  <coopserver> <V453000> possibly
22:16:30  <coopserver> <sim-al2> I see trains visit empty station fairly often
22:16:42  <coopserver> <V453000> the main problem is that trains just "randomly wander around"
22:16:46  <coopserver> <V453000> that is never very effective
22:16:58  <coopserver> <V453000> dummies and load checks are always going to be more effective obviously
22:18:36  <coopserver> <sim-al2> ok. I've been looking for ideas to make better S-bahn networks of my own, but I always see to come back to either all trains serving all stations or a train serving a specific station
22:18:45  <coopserver> <sim-al2> *seen to
22:18:52  <coopserver> <sim-al2> *seem to
22:19:04  <coopserver> <V453000> well, what else would you expect? :P
22:28:17  <coopserver> <V453000> time to inhabitate stuff neighbours
22:28:31  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Holy crap V
22:29:44  <coopserver> <V453000> wa
22:43:38  <coopserver> <V453000> plan is clear
22:43:40  <coopserver> <V453000> lets do this :D
22:43:53  <coopserver> <sim-al2> oi!
22:44:37  <coopserver> <V453000> nonono
22:44:40  <coopserver> <sim-al2> righ
22:44:40  <coopserver> <V453000> better spacing
22:45:00  <coopserver> <V453000> :(
22:45:15  <coopserver> <sim-al2> why the road?
22:45:21  <coopserver> <sim-al2> wait nvm
22:45:21  <coopserver> <V453000> cause useful
22:45:25  <coopserver> <V453000> and we dont nede to cover that :)
22:45:39  <coopserver> <V453000> problem is I think we should keep just 3 sets
22:45:41  <coopserver> <V453000> instead of 4
22:45:46  <coopserver> <V453000> this would take too much space
22:45:52  <coopserver> <V453000> Tedborough would suffer:D
22:46:01  <coopserver> <V453000> though the closer end is quite poorly serviced
22:46:08  <coopserver> <V453000> !thing
22:46:11  <coopserver> <V453000> could use reduction =D
22:46:18  <coopserver> <V453000> hm no that would still be too much
22:46:26  <coopserver> <V453000> lets do 3in the middle
22:48:17  <coopserver> <V453000> now the system
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22:49:24  <coopserver> <V453000> nono
22:49:43  <coopserver> <V453000> please, I appreciate you are trying to help but there is too much to consider, I got it on paper but need to do it alone
22:49:57  <coopserver> <V453000> at least for now
22:50:31  <coopserver> <V453000> ok how bout this
22:50:38  <coopserver> <V453000> same things are same
22:51:14  <coopserver> <V453000> or
22:51:15  <coopserver> <V453000> wa
22:51:16  <coopserver> <V453000> :D
22:51:18  <coopserver> <V453000> hm
22:54:17  <coopserver> <V453000> well dummy trains would make it even better
22:54:21  <coopserver> <V453000> but...
22:55:46  <phatmatt> > thinks it's not programming
22:55:53  <phatmatt> > has to design the logic on paper first
22:56:01  <phatmatt> oh u
22:56:05  <coopserver> <V453000> asdf
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23:00:20  <coopserver> <V453000> mfgff
23:00:27  <coopserver> <V453000> this takes a fuckload of space more than I thought
23:00:32  <coopserver> <V453000> maybe two
23:01:03  <coopserver> <V453000> well
23:01:06  <coopserver> <V453000> meh
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23:06:03  <coopserver> <V453000> hm
23:06:15  <coopserver> <V453000> drawing might not be omnipotent :D
23:08:04  <coopserver> <V453000> :D
23:08:07  <coopserver> <V453000> ass
23:09:39  <coopserver> *** V453000 has left the game (Leaving)
23:09:39  <coopserver> *** Game paused (number of players)
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23:10:39  <V453000> !password
23:10:40  <coopserver> V453000: vararg
23:10:49  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
23:10:51  <coopserver> *** V453000 has joined
23:10:51  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (number of players)
23:10:51  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
23:53:15  *** Hazzard has joined #openttdcoop
23:53:20  <Hazzard> Hello
23:53:22  <Hazzard> !players
23:53:23  <coopserver> Hazzard: There are currently 2 players and 0 spectators, making a total of 2 clients connected
23:53:33  <coopserver> <V453000> hyhy
23:53:41  <Hazzard> How doth the brain melt today?
23:53:48  <Hazzard> !password
23:53:48  <coopserver> Hazzard: pageup
23:53:50  <coopserver> <V453000> yes
23:53:56  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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23:54:39  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Second main line already?
23:54:44  <coopserver> <V453000> sure
23:55:44  <coopserver> <Hazzard> Oh dear
23:57:36  <Hazzard> We need way more south sbahns
23:57:43  <coopserver> <V453000> im adding one
23:58:57  <coopserver> *** sim-al2 has joined spectators

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