Log for #openttdcoop on 28th April 2014:
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01:33:53  <MaximumTimbo> Hello openttdcoop people. I have been looking at your archive games and my mind is blown! I would like to join this group for the summer...
01:35:28  <MaximumTimbo> !password
01:35:28  <coopserver> MaximumTimbo: turner
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02:06:08  <Hazzard> Hello :D
02:06:26  <Hazzard> Have you looked at @quickstart
02:06:29  <Hazzard> @quickstart
02:06:30  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki -
02:23:33  <MaximumTimbo> Well, is it appropriate to ask for suggestions on a current save that I have been working on? I have been playing for only a month or so and find this game fascinating.
02:30:37  <MaximumTimbo> Also I tried to join the public server, but it says version mismatch. I have all of the newgrf files needed.
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02:31:05  <John_Adams_> !password
02:31:05  <coopserver> John_Adams_: factor
02:32:34  <Hazzard> The coop severs use a nightly version:
02:32:37  <Hazzard> @download
02:32:43  <Hazzard> !download
02:32:43  <coopserver> Hazzard: !download lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
02:32:44  <coopserver> Hazzard:
02:37:46  <MaximumTimbo> Hmm :/ is there a way to automate the nightly builds or do I have to DL it every time an update happens...
02:39:25  <AnsonWeb> there are not too many new versions of ottd used while a map is running
02:40:11  <AnsonWeb> but right before start of a new map, or when there were many changes or something important, the server might be updated
02:41:12  <AnsonWeb> until now, i use windows, and updating ottd is really easy: download a zip, unpack to any directory, and start the program ... that's all
02:52:55  <John_Adams_> !password
02:52:55  <coopserver> John_Adams_: pragma
02:53:03  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
02:53:12  <coopserver> *** Player has joined
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02:53:39  <coopserver> *** Player has joined company #1
02:53:52  <coopserver> <Player> !name John_Adams
02:53:52  <coopserver> *** Player has changed his/her name to John_Adams
02:54:38  <John_Adams_> Anyone want to join the coop server?
02:55:23  <coopserver> *** John_Adams has left the game (Leaving)
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03:03:06  <MaximumTimbo> Ha! just found this:
03:05:50  <Hazzard> Hmm
03:06:10  <Hazzard> The server isn't always on the latest version
03:06:33  <AnsonWeb> that script probably is useful when you want to always have the latest nightly for your own offline games
03:07:31  <AnsonWeb> but when you play on the public server, there are probably more newer nightlies after the map is started and you should not update your ottd automatically or your version will be too new
03:09:50  <MaximumTimbo> Ha. AnsonWeb I think I ran into exactly that problem just now
03:09:55  <AnsonWeb> to see which version is used for a server, check it on irc, or go to
03:10:45  <AnsonWeb> from irc or that webpage, you get a link and easily can download it
03:12:04  <AnsonWeb> finally ... filemove complete :-) ... starting the next :-(
03:21:53  <AnsonWeb> 350 GB = 5 hours ... and i have some more directories and partitions like that :-(
03:23:28  <MaximumTimbo> What are you working on?
03:24:48  <AnsonWeb> cleaning up my PVR, my bootdisk, and several other harddisks, in preparation for installing new harddisk/SSD and reinstalling windows, adding dualboot and linux
03:25:13  <AnsonWeb> and most of them are only usb2
03:31:40  <MaximumTimbo> Hmmm I actually just did something silimalar a while ago. Sans the dual boot. I hate Windows
03:32:25  <AnsonWeb> i have some programs that only run under windows
03:33:27  <AnsonWeb> but since i used them very infrequently recently, i decided to install dualboot when i need to reinstall everything after installing a new HD/SSD
03:34:25  <AnsonWeb> probably will have to reinstall a few times until i get the balance right between all those new partitions (swap, temp, /tmp, data, win-boot, linux-boot, etc)
03:36:09  <MaximumTimbo> That shouldn't be too difficult to calculate. Linux typically doesn't use much Hdd space. When I do dual boot for potential Linux users I usually give more to Win than Lin
03:36:34  <MaximumTimbo> I know that prolly wont help you in your case...
03:36:52  <AnsonWeb> i already programmed something for unix/linux/etc, but on my own computer it is something new for me and i have no idea what i really need when partitioning all that crap
03:37:54  <AnsonWeb> do you do that professionally ?
03:39:12  <MaximumTimbo> No, I'm an enthusiast. I've been doing things like that for nearly 7 years now. I have certifications in Cisco and A++ but I don't work in the industry
03:39:50  <MaximumTimbo> I am a chef and have been for 13 years. I am currently working on a BA in English.
03:40:14  <AnsonWeb> which partitions would you create, and how big ? and installing windows7 and linux in which order ? ... disks are 1.2 TB HD, 500 GB SSD, and lots of external usb storage
03:40:25  <AnsonWeb> a chef ? cook ?
03:40:34  <AnsonWeb> or boss ?
03:41:35  <MaximumTimbo> I've been boss, chef and cook. Right now I am Sous Chef (under Exec Sous Chef who is under the Exec Chef)
03:42:13  <MaximumTimbo> Always install win first. It does not like the whole idea of GRUB...
03:42:46  <MaximumTimbo> If you are trying to create partitions for each of the boot loaders, you're working too hard.
03:42:54  <AnsonWeb> the word chef is often misleading ... german chef = english boss ... english chef = german koch (cook)
03:43:16  <MaximumTimbo> Chef is French beans boss, also
03:43:26  <MaximumTimbo> beans haha means*
03:43:51  <AnsonWeb> nothing against a good chili con carne :-)
03:44:28  <MaximumTimbo> eh, have a couple chili competition medals under my belt too...
03:44:44  <MaximumTimbo> There is nothing to it.
03:45:23  <MaximumTimbo> Also why are you trying to balance the swap and all of that?
03:45:43  <MaximumTimbo> What are you trying to accomplish? Just a run of the mill dual boot?
03:47:38  <AnsonWeb> i like spicy food ... in a restaurant i once saw a scale, going from normal to maximum european (= normal asian) and then to max asian :-) ... rarely i like first degree asian, but mostly max european :-)
03:49:42  <AnsonWeb> i need to use some programs with windows, eg wow and a program to edit my recordings (removing commercials, no serious work) ... but mostly i am using ottd, internet browser and a few others which i can run as well without windows
03:50:08  <AnsonWeb> thus i want linux, i need windows, and thus dualboot
03:50:46  <MaximumTimbo> I see. I take it the 1.2Tb is the master and the 500Gb is the slave?
03:50:54  <AnsonWeb> all the data on external disks is only video data, instead of using video cassettes or DVD
03:52:30  <AnsonWeb> currently, i have 4 sata, 1.5 TB (thus 1.2TB real size), 1 TB, 0.5 TB, and a DVD ... will remove two disks and replace with a SSD 500GB
03:54:29  <AnsonWeb> and when installing all disks from scratch, i can chose any as master ... which should i use to boot from ?
03:55:46  <MaximumTimbo> I were you, I would put the all of the boot files and all that other small partitions on the 1 Tb disk. Windows uses the rest of the Terabyte disk since you use it for audio/video (big files) and make Linux use the 500Gb. For what you're doing, that will be more than enough. Hell, I have a 500Gb HDD on my lappy and am struggling to fill it with music...
03:56:02  <Hazzard> Do you have the SSD yet?
03:56:42  <AnsonWeb> yes
03:56:57  <MaximumTimbo> Install Win first, then Linux.
03:58:16  <AnsonWeb> all the video stuff are files up to 4GB, and usually they are only on the external disks ... for working with them with the program that i have, i need maybe 4x the space of the file i am working on ... thus 20GB should be good enough, or maybe more when i work in batch mode
03:59:11  <MaximumTimbo> You will never run out of HDD space.
03:59:19  <AnsonWeb> then i can keep the big disk as i have it and linux adds the dual boot ?
03:59:31  <MaximumTimbo> Yes
04:00:37  <AnsonWeb> what about shared data ? one partition to be used from win and linux, one only linux, and one for windows swapfile and temp ?
04:00:45  <MaximumTimbo> And you really needn't fuss with all of the swap/boot loader partitions. That's done under the hood when you install your linux. Are you installing Ubuntu or Mint?
04:03:09  <MaximumTimbo> Shared data is a pain in the butt. I have a RPi built 3Tb NAS for file sharing. Way easier to network, in my opinion, than to have two OSs on the same machine communicate.
04:03:40  <Hazzard> Wouldn't the standard route be putting all the boot stuff on the ssd?
04:04:40  <AnsonWeb> to avoid downloading and burning dvds, i got a few computer magazines which have 10+ versions of linux :-) including mint-debian 201303, mint-cinamon 16, mint-mate 16, suse 13.1, fedora 20, kubuntu 13.10, and a few less known ....
04:04:45  <MaximumTimbo> an ssd: solid state drive, yes?
04:05:06  <Hazzard> Yup
04:06:23  <MaximumTimbo> Then it doesn't matter. It's would make uptime faster, yes, but by mere miliseconds. Personally, I don't think it matters. You could absolutely go that route if you choose.
04:07:35  <AnsonWeb> as long as it is only boot stuff, i don't care much, since i usually boot the computer less often thne once per day (maybe more often with the dualboot), but accessing libraries, utilities, etc might be interesting for the speed
04:08:10  <MaximumTimbo> Fedora and Suse are a pain in the butt, but they are fun to play around with.
04:08:59  <MaximumTimbo> You could put both of the OSs on the ssd and split the TB with more space going to the WinOS...
04:09:59  <MaximumTimbo> Or just nix the whole Win thing and play with Wine inside of Linux
04:10:22  <AnsonWeb> a long time ago, linux could only access FAT32 ... can it now access NTFS as well without problems ?
04:10:25  <MaximumTimbo> Kubuntu is good, you have an old dist there.
04:10:35  <MaximumTimbo> Yes it can
04:11:02  <MaximumTimbo> NTFS used to be a pain, i remember that...
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04:11:48  <MaximumTimbo> I don't see NTFS very often...
04:12:19  <AnsonWeb> then it will be no problem ... a few textfiles (CSV :-) and lots of MPEG ... all on the extarnal disks ... and then 1+ TB internally will be good enough
04:12:22  <MaximumTimbo> the newest kubuntu is 14.04. I highly recommend getting that.
04:13:48  <AnsonWeb> what about mint ?
04:14:01  <MaximumTimbo> or even Ubuntu 14.04. I think it's nice. I have grown to like Unity very much. I still use Gnome and KDE sometimes...
04:14:05  <MaximumTimbo> Mint is good
04:14:36  <MaximumTimbo> The plus of all of these (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Mint) is that they are all Debian based.
04:14:48  <MaximumTimbo> Meaning using all of them is basically the same
04:15:49  <AnsonWeb> how difficult is it to switch between them, and to upgrade eg from 13.01 to 14.4 ?
04:16:05  <MaximumTimbo> There are many others, like Kali-Linux, that are debian based. I think using sudo apt-get is better than yum. But, that is my opinion and I respect those who use yum...
04:16:35  <MaximumTimbo> (not to start any fights, Linux fan boys get mad about stuff sometimes.)
04:17:21  <MaximumTimbo> Well if you just want to play with different OSs, than you can install several of them.
04:17:57  <AnsonWeb> hehe, speaking of fanboys : i need to watch the movie fanboys :-)
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04:18:08  <MaximumTimbo> Although, if you were going to install 13.10 with the intention of intantly upgrading, then you're just wasting time...
04:19:17  <MaximumTimbo> I mean, go for it if you want to. It's very easy to do. But it would make more sense to just make download the new version
04:19:55  <AnsonWeb> i never was lucky with burning DVDs :-( ... besides the usual errors, i got additional problems like windows ejecting a disk after burning but before finalizing, etc ...
04:20:34  <AnsonWeb> i would like to avoid buring a dvd just to install something when i can use a dvd that i already have
04:21:34  <AnsonWeb> maybe using a USB stick instead of a DVD ?
04:21:58  <MaximumTimbo> True... I assume you have a quick internet connection?
04:22:10  <MaximumTimbo> You can do that, yes. I'm not a fan of doing that, it's slow...
04:22:29  <AnsonWeb> VDSL 50 ... 50000k down, 10000k up
04:23:05  <MaximumTimbo> And the Linux kernal is having troubles with USB 3.0 right now. It works, just not on boot... or something like that.
04:23:16  <AnsonWeb> burning 5 DVD to have one that works is not very fast either :-)
04:23:49  <MaximumTimbo> No it isn't. Once you install a Linux, you might not have that problem any more.
04:25:22  <AnsonWeb> i think i only used two DVDs during the last 2 years ... windows system, and an AV scanner :-)
04:25:41  <AnsonWeb> installed even wow from the internet directly
04:26:27  <MaximumTimbo> I like to make movies for people, like teachers, who are behind the tech curve....
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04:26:42  <AnsonWeb> of course, i used a lot of dvd when you also count movie-dvds :-)
04:27:07  <MaximumTimbo> What are you using to burn ISO disks?
04:27:53  <AnsonWeb> last time i did that, i used something like nero2 ... maybe 15 years ago ?
04:28:45  <AnsonWeb> brobably was a CD iso, when DVD was not yet invented :-) LOL
04:29:07  <MaximumTimbo> Oh Nero... how I hate thee
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04:37:40  <AnsonWeb> anyway, while i install the disks or if anything gowes wrong, i have at least my phone to ask for help :-)
04:40:16  <MaximumTimbo> Doing this now?
04:40:51  <AnsonWeb> still copying files
04:41:43  <AnsonWeb> had 1 TB on my PVR and 600++ GB on my boot/system disk ... moving that to external HD
04:43:03  <AnsonWeb> takes quite some time to get those files from the PVR which has only usb2 ...
04:43:45  <MaximumTimbo> Yeah... It will be a while.
04:44:22  <AnsonWeb> 17 MB/s
04:45:43  <AnsonWeb> hehe, now you know that i don't care much about waiting a bit when downloading to a stick instead of burning a DVD :-)
04:47:24  <MaximumTimbo> Dang, you see. This is why I like my NAS. I get up/down speeds around 170MB/s.
04:50:20  <AnsonWeb> i would have to build a NAS myself ... no external disks needed normally, but more than fits on a normal NAS to store all the video stuff i recorded during the last years ...
04:52:25  <MaximumTimbo> Build it with a Raspberry Pi! It's really easy...
04:52:28  <AnsonWeb> i have a NAS, but that is the slowest of all : my PVR runs with some proprietary version of linux+video software, and when i switch NAS on, it gives me maybe 1-2 MB/s at most
04:53:26  <MaximumTimbo> Ooouch. I have a feeling that your issue might be with the router...
04:55:08  <AnsonWeb> i think it is some NAS emulator :-)
04:56:26  <AnsonWeb> the PVR is usable either as PVR with internal harddisk or as host for external hardisk, or i can switch to using its internal harddisk as external harddisk for my computer
04:56:50  <AnsonWeb> that's what i do now: copying video files via USB2
04:58:33  <AnsonWeb> when i use the NAS mode, it also switches something and i can't record at the same time ... thus maybe it accesses the disk first, then slowly converts the protocols and offers that as NAS
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08:18:27  <Rapha> @quickstart
08:18:28  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki -
08:24:14  <Rapha> !password
08:24:14  <coopserver> Rapha: finder
08:24:21  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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12:44:38  <Dom_> !download osx
12:44:38  <coopserver> Dom_:
12:46:10  <V453000> hy Dom_ (:
12:52:39  <Dom_> helloooo :D:D
12:52:49  <Dom_> how have you been? :D
12:55:42  <Dom_> !password
12:55:42  <coopserver> Dom_: bijker
12:55:47  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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13:00:28  <V453000> great (:
13:00:32  <V453000> working on a new newgrf
13:00:37  <coopserver> <Dom> nice :)
13:00:41  <coopserver> <Dom> which one?
13:01:30  <V453000>
13:02:01  <Dom_> yeah i read a bit about it in the blog
13:02:18  <Dom_> those would be huge games xD
13:04:16  <V453000> not necessarily
13:04:22  <V453000> scale doesnt matter
13:04:43  <V453000> some images there :)
13:06:59  <Dom_> looks great :)
13:08:49  <V453000> working on oil refinery atm
13:09:24  <V453000>
13:09:30  <V453000> render of testing with the ladders etc
13:09:40  <V453000> current state [wip] (:
13:11:05  <Dom_> is otto even capable of handling such grfs?
13:11:11  <V453000> sure
13:11:24  <V453000> I mean, not the test render
13:11:29  <V453000> but the refinery_00 is
13:11:55  <Dom_> it looks amazing :)
13:11:58  <V453000> :)
13:12:02  <coopserver> *** Dom has left the game (Leaving)
13:12:04  <V453000> all of it is just basic so far
13:12:10  <V453000> needs a lot of improvements and details
13:12:27  <Dom_> so it will take some more months or?
13:12:28  <planetmaker> wow, a refinery on polished glass terrain :D
13:12:33  <Dom_> xD
13:12:34  <V453000> a long time :)
13:12:42  <V453000> yes pm :)
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17:57:38  <Hazzard> YOooooo
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19:41:32  <planetmaker> o/
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