Log for #openttdcoop on 15th August 2014:
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01:49:03  <Hazzard> !password
01:49:04  <coopserver> Hazzard: signum
01:49:20  <Hazzard> !password
01:49:20  <coopserver> Hazzard: signum
01:49:30  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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03:27:31  <Djanxy> !password
03:27:31  <coopserver> Djanxy: george
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05:20:23  <V453000> !password
05:20:23  <coopserver> V453000: lumber
05:20:53  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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05:21:02  <coopserver> <V453000> hy
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06:14:53  <Sylf> !password
06:14:53  <coopserver> Sylf: nelson
06:15:06  <Sylf> !password
06:15:06  <coopserver> Sylf: finite
06:15:15  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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06:18:24  <V453000> yoyo
06:18:29  <coopserver> <Sylf> yo
06:20:48  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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06:21:45  <coopserver> <V453000> hm yeti yard is funded as 4x4 :)
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06:51:01  <coopserver> <Sylf> I go sleep yo.
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07:01:44  <coopserver> *** V453000 has left the game (Leaving)
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12:50:35  <Jam35> !password
12:50:35  <coopserver> Jam35: silver
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12:52:30  <V453000> omg player666
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12:52:53  <coopserver> <Player> !name Jam35
12:52:53  <coopserver> *** Player has changed his/her name to Jam35
12:53:05  <coopserver> <Jam35> hell
12:53:08  <V453000> hy
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13:04:57  <coopserver> *** Game paused (number of players)
13:05:12  <Jam35> !password
13:05:12  <coopserver> Jam35: geturl
13:05:19  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
13:05:25  <coopserver> *** Player has joined
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13:05:29  <coopserver> <Player> !name Jam35
13:05:29  <coopserver> *** Player has changed his/her name to Jam35
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15:12:49  <Maraxus> !password
15:12:49  <coopserver> Maraxus: socket
15:12:58  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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15:13:25  <coopserver> <Maraxus> hi
15:13:28  <coopserver> <Jam35> hiya
15:15:18  <Vinnie> !password
15:15:18  <coopserver> Vinnie: buflen
15:15:32  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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15:15:39  <coopserver> <Vinnie> hi
15:15:47  <coopserver> <Jam35> also
15:15:49  <coopserver> <Maraxus> hi
15:16:36  <coopserver> <Vinnie> looks crowded already
15:17:03  <coopserver> <Jam35> trains take up too much space :)
15:17:33  <coopserver> <Vinnie> mostly traveling empty i suppose
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16:05:41  <Hazzard> !players
16:05:41  <coopserver> Hazzard: There are currently 2 players and 1 spectators, making a total of 3 clients connected
16:05:44  <Hazzard> !password
16:05:44  <coopserver> Hazzard: dparam
16:05:56  <Hazzard> Hello
16:06:10  <coopserver> <Jam35> hiih
16:06:38  <coopserver> <Maraxus> hi
16:08:23  *** Sassafrass has joined #openttdcoop
16:08:27  <Sassafrass> hi
16:08:31  <Sassafrass> !players
16:08:31  <coopserver> Sassafrass: There are currently 2 players and 1 spectators, making a total of 3 clients connected
16:08:58  <Sassafrass> !password
16:08:58  <coopserver> Sassafrass: dparam
16:09:03  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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16:11:43  *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
16:12:04  <Hazzard> !ip
16:12:04  <coopserver> Hazzard:
16:13:59  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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16:15:18  <coopserver> <Jam35> hi
16:16:20  <coopserver> <Vinnie> so, when can i build a 4th
16:17:55  <coopserver> <Sassafrass> vinnie you're crazy
16:18:19  <coopserver> <Jam35> :1900 hours
16:18:36  <coopserver> <Jam35> GMT +1
16:18:39  <coopserver> <Vinnie> i'll be there
16:18:43  <coopserver> <Jam35> :P
16:18:52  <coopserver> <Jam35> whatever :)
16:18:57  <coopserver> <Jam35> now!
16:19:06  <coopserver> <Jam35> if u like
16:19:35  <coopserver> <Vinnie> no now i got 40 minutes to drink beer and prepare the song to sing myself to sleep tonight
16:19:54  <coopserver> <Sassafrass> how do I view the sprites in a grf?
16:19:57  <coopserver> <Sassafrass> is that possible?
16:20:26  <coopserver> <Jam35> i might have seen a utility to do that
16:20:32  <coopserver> <Jam35> or maybe not :)
16:20:40  <coopserver> <Jam35> search i guess
16:20:56  <Sassafrass> I found this page
16:20:59  <Sassafrass> but I'm not sure which to use
16:21:06  <Hazzard> !password
16:21:07  <coopserver> Hazzard: styles
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16:32:31  <Jam35>
16:33:06  <Jam35> newgrf_developer_tools = true
16:33:12  <Jam35> I guess
16:33:16  <Jam35> in .cfg
16:33:32  <Jam35> what I was thinking of
16:38:31  <coopserver> <Sassafrass> sweet thanks
16:39:29  <coopserver> <Hazzard> 800 trains
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16:43:03  <coopserver> <Jam35> ~500 ML
16:43:10  <coopserver> <Jam35> only :)
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16:57:41  <Sylf> !assword
16:57:51  <Sylf> !password
16:57:51  <coopserver> Sylf: fucked
16:58:11  <Sylf> oh.  ok.  sorry I said ass, coopserver
16:58:22  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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17:16:50  <Sassafrass> the password was actually fucked
17:16:53  <Sassafrass> that's great
17:17:11  <Taede> looks like i'll be cutting another one out of the list
17:17:24  <Sassafrass> why?
17:28:25  <Taede> i'd rather avoid the bot saying fucked when there might be kids
17:35:37  <coopserver> *** Vinnie has joined company #1
17:35:43  <coopserver> <Vinnie> time for something mental
17:36:06  <Hazzard> XD sylf
17:36:10  <Hazzard> that's helarious
17:36:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> the assword?
17:36:31  <Hazzard> yes
17:39:02  <coopserver> *** Maraxus has joined company #1
18:12:24  <Jam35> !password
18:12:24  <coopserver> Jam35: status
18:12:30  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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18:12:59  <coopserver> <Hazzard> You ought to set your name in the console
18:13:20  <coopserver> <Player> !name Jam35
18:13:20  <coopserver> *** Player has changed his/her name to Jam35
18:13:24  <coopserver> <Jam35> yes
18:15:31  <coopserver> <Sylf> there still must be some signal errors on ML
18:16:41  <coopserver> <Hazzard> at 1/3x?
18:16:46  <coopserver> <Sylf> no
18:16:53  <coopserver> <Sylf> it's somewhere beyond that
18:17:08  <coopserver> <Sylf> like SLH 02 or MSH 2A or
18:17:11  <coopserver> <Sylf> SLH 05 etc
18:17:22  <coopserver> <Sylf> and somewhere in between
18:17:54  <coopserver> <Sylf> found one
18:19:39  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has left the game (general timeout)
18:22:18  <coopserver> <Sylf> that should make the flow throw MSH 1|3 X better
18:23:04  <coopserver> <Sylf> almost too good, now its jamming SLH 5? ;)
18:23:24  <coopserver> <Hazzard> :)
18:23:41  <coopserver> <Hazzard> I just don't have the infrastructure to handle the number of trains right now
18:25:41  <coopserver> *** Vinnie has joined spectators
18:31:24  <coopserver> <Hazzard> gtg
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18:45:59  <Sassafrass> sigh
18:46:03  <Sassafrass> so hard to understand GRF
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18:48:07  <alphasc> !password
18:48:07  <coopserver> alphasc: people
18:49:05  <alphasc> !dl
18:49:05  <coopserver> alphasc: !download lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
18:49:06  <coopserver> alphasc:
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19:22:51  <iTKerry> !password
19:22:51  <coopserver> iTKerry: equals
19:23:09  <iTKerry> hey
19:23:17  <coopserver> *** Vinnie has left the game (Leaving)
19:23:28  <Vinnie> hey
19:23:37  <iTKerry> how things?
19:24:01  <Vinnie> good and with you
19:24:24  <iTKerry> did u saw this? :D
19:24:34  <Vinnie> teah but to long to watch
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19:25:09  <coopserver> <iTKerry> hey Sassafrass
19:25:35  <Sassafrass> hi
19:25:52  <coopserver> <iTKerry> aww, CL 1.5
19:25:56  <coopserver> <iTKerry> i love it :P
19:32:32  <iTKerry> so, Vinnie, mb let's go play on reddit right now?
19:39:05  <Sassafrass> newgrf wiki is slow as balls
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19:40:02  <coopserver> <iTKerry> well, i go play in dota2
19:40:02  <coopserver> <iTKerry> gl
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20:14:58  <Sassafrass> V. what do you use to make your grf's?
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20:17:21  <Sassafrass> is it all manual?
20:19:13  <planetmaker> Sassafrass, I'm not V, but afaik: depends, yeti is rendered, the 8bpp stuff is drawn
20:19:44  <planetmaker> but then, the rendering is not automatic as creating the models takes at least as much time, and attaching proper textures to them
20:19:52  <planetmaker> so... newgrf creation is always manual :)
20:27:35  <Sassafrass> I mean the nfo file and stuff
20:27:54  <Sassafrass> I still am having a hard time adding new signal graphics
20:27:56  <Sassafrass> is that even possible?
20:28:07  <Sassafrass> or can I only replace existing ones?
20:28:25  <planetmaker> writing in nfo is... well, stupid if you do and not need to. The projects are on the DevZone
20:28:47  <planetmaker> you can only replace existing ones, unless you modify openttd's source
20:29:50  <planetmaker> at least not signal types. you can add new versions of the existing signals per railtype. But that's - iirc - not what you want
20:30:15  <Sassafrass> say I'm modifying openttd's source
20:30:21  <Sassafrass> what would be the best way to add new graphics?
20:30:51  <Sassafrass> my custom signal is working how I want, I just want to make it look different.
20:30:54  <planetmaker> extending or adding an action5
20:31:33  <planetmaker> which means you also have to teach grfcodec about it and patch openttd.grf accordingly
20:31:57  <planetmaker> <-- in that series I add some new graphics which are mandatory
20:32:06  <planetmaker> you would need to go a similar way
20:32:19  <planetmaker> not sure though whether to extend the existing action5 for signals or create a new one
20:33:36  <Sassafrass> wow you know a lot.
20:33:57  <planetmaker> (the difference between a newgrf and what you do is: you add sprites which are mandatory to have. thus must be part of base sets. NewGRFs are freer. And more limited at the same time
20:34:34  <planetmaker> I hack openttd code for 7 years now. And I'm a base set maintainer.
20:34:38  <Sassafrass> are you an openttd dev or something?
20:34:43  <planetmaker> that, too. somewhat
20:34:55  <Sassafrass> ahh crazy, I'm glad you're helping me
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20:36:08  <planetmaker> mostly I know that I know too little :)
20:36:26  <Sassafrass> well you know far more than me, be my mentor please!
20:36:26  <Sassafrass> lol
20:37:07  <planetmaker> well, generally #openttd is the channel for development talk. More people who know such stuff are there than here
20:37:24  <Sassafrass> what do you use to view a patch diff thingy?
20:37:40  <planetmaker> my screen :P or what do you mean?
20:37:50  <planetmaker> my browser. my text editor
20:37:56  <planetmaker> depends
20:38:01  <planetmaker> the command console
20:38:02  <Sassafrass> so you just view the .diff files and see what's different
20:38:07  <Sassafrass> there's no like visualizer you use?
20:38:26  <planetmaker> the editor has highlighting
20:39:07  <Sassafrass> which editor do you use?
20:39:13  <Sassafrass> I'm a complete noob sorry.
20:39:18  <planetmaker> kate
20:39:40  <planetmaker> won't be of joy for you, if you're not on linux, though
20:40:11  <Sassafrass> hmm yeah
20:40:17  <Sassafrass> still never heard of Kate.
20:40:30  <planetmaker> part of the KDE stuff
20:40:35  <planetmaker> though I use it separately
20:41:32  <planetmaker> notepad++ shall be quite decent, I hear, when using windoze
20:41:34  <Sassafrass> what does your grid patch do?
20:41:41  <Jam35> iirc V uses this: (windows) :
20:41:42  <Webster> Title: Notepad++ Home (at
20:41:46  <Jam35> oh :)
20:41:48  <planetmaker> see the screenshots in the screen folder, Sassafrass
20:41:52  <Sassafrass> I prefer sublime text over npp
20:43:04  <Sassafrass> woah
20:43:08  <Sassafrass> why isn't that in the game? haha
20:43:21  <planetmaker> not working bug-free in all contexts
20:43:28  <Sassafrass> what bug?
20:43:39  <planetmaker> graphics bugs, grid showing wrongly
20:44:00  <Hazzard> !password
20:44:00  <coopserver> Hazzard: tracks
20:44:04  <planetmaker> for half-tile slopes and especially in conjunction with coasts
20:44:24  <planetmaker> and I didn't quite figure out how to fix that properly
20:44:28  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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20:45:19  <Sassafrass> seems like a lot of work went into that
20:45:34  <planetmaker> yeah, it did
20:45:41  <Sassafrass> so the grids in the game are actually on the terrain sprites?
20:45:46  <planetmaker> yes
20:45:51  <Sassafrass> and you removed all the grids and made them drawn separately
20:45:53  <Sassafrass> beast dude.
20:46:03  <planetmaker> kinda, yeah
20:46:41  <planetmaker> I first created opengfx+landscape. Then I thought it would be cool to be able to toggle grids when using it in the gridless mode
20:47:46  <planetmaker> maybe I revamp that patch somewhen. But I currently miss the time
20:48:57  <Sassafrass> how do you generate a diff like that?
20:48:59  <Sassafrass> svn?
20:49:09  <planetmaker> I use mercurial
20:49:36  <planetmaker> but that's, like svn, also a version control system
20:49:53  <planetmaker> without a version control system... well, it's basically impossible to work on code properly
20:50:04  <planetmaker> you then never know what you changed etc
20:50:42  <Sassafrass> I love version control
20:50:45  <Sassafrass> I prefer git.
20:50:51  <planetmaker> most devs use meanwhile mercurial, others use git. But nearly no-one uses svn anymore except for actual commit
20:50:57  <planetmaker> git is too baroque for my liking
20:51:13  <Sassafrass> I should try mercurial some time
20:51:50  <planetmaker> as long as you use a vcs, that's fine. But if you use git... why do you ask how I end up with those diffs? :)
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20:52:02  <planetmaker> git diff > file
20:52:04  <planetmaker> hg diff > file
20:52:08  <planetmaker> same syntax even :)
20:52:12  <zxbiohazardzx> !info
20:52:12  <coopserver> zxbiohazardzx: #openttdcoop - Public Server (, Version: r26720, date: Jun 23 2473, clients connected: 1, map size: 512x512, address:
20:52:16  <zxbiohazardzx> !password
20:52:16  <coopserver> zxbiohazardzx: townid
20:52:43  <planetmaker> but it's good that you like version control :) Makes sooo many things easier
20:52:44  <Sassafrass> cause I've never made a diff!
20:52:54  <Sassafrass> they don't teach you this stuff in college sadly
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20:53:04  <planetmaker> wooot?
20:53:12  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> ow darn still the TL14 madness?
20:53:13  <planetmaker> well, I didn't learn it in college either
20:53:18  <planetmaker> I learnt it all here :)
20:53:22  <Sassafrass> exactly
20:53:28  <Sassafrass> I feel like college for CS was a waste of time :)
20:53:40  <Sassafrass> just graduated.  I should know a lot more
20:54:04  * planetmaker hasn't studied CS :P
20:54:15  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> he skipped it
20:54:23  <Sassafrass> I learned more about programming outside of college than I did in my classes.
20:54:49  <planetmaker> classes are not meant to teach you programming. But concepts, algorithms etc :)
20:54:51  <planetmaker> I guess
20:54:54  <Sassafrass> yeah
20:54:58  <planetmaker> and that's something *I* miss
20:55:10  <Sassafrass> I want the programming skills now.
20:55:46  <Sassafrass> so, if I want to add my new signal graphics
20:56:43  <Sassafrass> should I add it to a new grf, or add it to existing grf, say ogfxe_extra.grf?
20:57:11  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> these trains are hypnotizing me in corners haha
20:57:15  <planetmaker> the proper way is to add it to openttd.grf / ogfxe_extra.grf
20:58:08  <Sassafrass> I noticed there's some purple PBS signals, are those actually used in the game? or should I just replace those?
20:58:16  <planetmaker> purple?
20:58:22  <Sassafrass> pink/purple
20:58:35  <planetmaker> where?
20:58:46  <planetmaker> are you sure you decoded whatever you look at with the right palette?
20:59:03  <Sassafrass>
20:59:04  <Webster> Title: 2014-08-15_1458 - Sastoman's library (at
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21:00:02  <Sassafrass> I can see them in the sprite-aligner in game too
21:00:12  <Sassafrass> id 5231
21:00:17  <Sassafrass> is a purple one way PBS signal
21:00:18  <planetmaker> well, you cannot simply replace existing sprites. They have a use obviously
21:00:43  <planetmaker> or not so obviously
21:00:55  <planetmaker> I don't know by heart when which version is used
21:01:15  <planetmaker> But all signals might actually be in use...
21:01:29  <planetmaker> lhs traffic vs. rhs traffic for instance
21:01:48  <Sassafrass> well there's regular PBS signals in all directions too.
21:01:55  <Sassafrass> the purple ones just seem like duplicates
21:02:38  <planetmaker> then look up the source and see what they're actually used for :)
21:02:51  <Sassafrass> I did, they don't seem to be used haha
21:04:08  <Sassafrass> but that's another thing I don't understand
21:04:16  <Sassafrass> the spritegroup resolver
21:04:31  <planetmaker> @base 16 10 F0
21:04:31  <Webster> planetmaker: 240
21:05:06  <Sassafrass>
21:05:07  <Webster> Title: 2014-08-15_1504 - Sastoman's library (at
21:05:11  <Sassafrass> I can't figure out how this is working
21:06:14  <planetmaker> @calc 240/8
21:06:14  <Webster> planetmaker: 30
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21:07:17  <planetmaker> @calc 8*2*2*6
21:07:17  <Webster> planetmaker: 192
21:07:39  <planetmaker> @calc 8*2*2*7
21:07:39  <Webster> planetmaker: 224
21:07:43  <planetmaker> @calc 8*2*2*8
21:07:43  <Webster> planetmaker: 256
21:07:46  <planetmaker> hm
21:10:14  <Sassafrass> oh I think I found it
21:10:28  <Sassafrass> in newgrf.cpp > RailTypeMapSpriteGroup
21:11:06  <planetmaker> right, there are unused signal graphics indeed. See sprites/extra/extra-signals.pnml in the OpenGFX repository. There I documented the usage actually
21:11:50  <Sassafrass> where can I find that?
21:11:54  <Sassafrass> I don't have a sprites folder
21:12:17  <planetmaker> well, in opengfx' source
21:12:22  <Sassafrass> I suppose there's a download for the OpenGFX source
21:12:26  <Sassafrass> I just decoded it
21:12:29  <Sassafrass> k let me grab that
21:12:33  <planetmaker> oO
21:12:43  <planetmaker> decode... no joy, if you can get sources
21:13:13  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> MSH(1|3) needs 4ths i think, it has some minor blockings
21:13:14  <Sassafrass> maybe that's why I was getting such a headache trying to understand it
21:13:31  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> mostly 1X3X station thats jammy / full lines
21:14:36  <planetmaker> you can also always just browse the repos in their web view...
21:15:52  <Sassafrass> oh wow this is so much better
21:16:45  <Sassafrass> ah, the purple signals are for toyland
21:17:00  <planetmaker> don't even bother to use decoded NewGRFs. If s/o asks you sth about a grf and can't give you the source to assess things, I simply refuse to waste my time
21:19:37  <Sassafrass> how do I encode the source?
21:19:39  <planetmaker> anyhow, seems you're lucky and there are unused graphics in the base set. so you and re-use them or simply replace them
21:19:56  <Sassafrass> I'm going to replace them :)
21:20:07  <Sassafrass> or try..
21:20:13  <Sylf> compiling newgrf?
21:20:22  <Sassafrass> yeah.
21:20:25  <Sassafrass> grfcodec?
21:20:30  <Sylf> from nfo or nml?
21:20:34  <Sassafrass> nml
21:20:37  <planetmaker> which source? For OpenGFX you need basically a linux system as you need to run the makefile. thus you need nml + make + sed + gcc in order to build it
21:20:38  <Sassafrass> the opengfx source
21:20:52  <Sassafrass> damn
21:21:03  <planetmaker> oh, and grfid from grfcodec package is also needed
21:21:23  <Sassafrass> sed?
21:21:29  <Sylf> virtualbox easy to install
21:21:37  <Sylf> and installing linux inside virtualbox is easy too
21:21:50  <planetmaker> standard linux tool. stream editor, used for automated search+replace
21:22:02  <Sylf> I've also successfully used NML with cygwin
21:22:03  <planetmaker> there's a guide for that on devzone. FooBar and Transportman
21:22:24  <planetmaker> know their way there better than I do for windows
21:22:42  <planetmaker> might also be a thread in tt-f, not sure
21:22:59  <planetmaker> but at least in the DevZone help centre wiki there's a link how to get going on windows, too
21:23:59  <planetmaker> but! as the graphics are there, make sure your patch actually works. Replacing the graphics in the existing base sets is rather secondary to that
21:24:21  <Sassafrass> k
21:24:28  <planetmaker> and now it's definitely bed time for me :)
21:24:32  <Sassafrass> I'll make it use the purple signals first the
21:24:34  <Sassafrass> then
21:24:40  <Sassafrass> thank you for helping me!!
21:24:43  <Sassafrass> I really appreciate it
21:24:49  <planetmaker> was a short last night, should be longer this time. No worries, you're welcome.
21:24:50  <Sassafrass> sleep well
21:25:11  <planetmaker> Thanks. Next time I strongly suggest to use #openttd for these discussions
21:25:17  <planetmaker> or #openttdcoop.devzone
21:25:24  <Sassafrass> okay will do.
21:25:26  <Sassafrass> sorry
21:25:29  <planetmaker> if #openttd is too "full".
21:25:34  <planetmaker> more your loss than mine :)
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