Log for #openttdcoop on 4th September 2014:
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00:06:21  <coopserver> <John> Anyone here?
00:08:41  <coopserver> <John> I need a peer review on my MSH
00:10:32  <Sylf> 1 sec
00:10:42  <Sylf> !password
00:10:42  <coopserver> Sylf: inland
00:10:46  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
00:10:49  <coopserver> *** Sylf has joined
00:10:50  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
00:10:57  <coopserver> *** Sylf has joined company #1
00:11:31  <coopserver> <Sylf> I'm going to rename this BBH because of the distance to the main station
00:11:43  <coopserver> <Sylf> someone will probably build a sideline hub there
00:12:05  <coopserver> <Sylf> and when you sign a hub, place a space in front of the sign
00:13:17  <coopserver> <John> yeah, I forgot about the space
00:13:35  <coopserver> <Sylf> anyway.
00:13:41  <coopserver> <Sylf> some actual hub stuff
00:15:57  <coopserver> <Sylf> ok, where shall we start
00:16:13  <coopserver> <John> Let me ask some stuff
00:16:17  <coopserver> <Sylf> yup
00:16:28  <coopserver> <John> Anything can be improved by PBS?
00:16:37  <coopserver> <Sylf> nope.
00:16:40  <coopserver> <John> like the blocking part
00:17:08  <coopserver> <Sylf> that blocking part shouldn't have any cross over at that point
00:17:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> what's needed is a balancer when it merges with the other 2 lines
00:17:54  <coopserver> <Sylf> when the balancer is so far away from the merges, the trains' path finders will probably not look so far ahead
00:18:08  <coopserver> <Sylf> so a balancer works better when it's closer to the merges
00:18:46  <coopserver> <John> what's the actual PF look-ahead?
00:19:34  <coopserver> <John> I get what's the problem.. but the terrain there is kind of restrictive
00:20:10  <coopserver> <Sylf> when there are multiple possible paths available from the train's current position to its next  destination, it starts to do comparison of what the best path is
00:20:45  <coopserver> <Sylf> part of that calculation includes number of red signals in some of its most immediate tiles
00:21:00  <coopserver> <Sylf> so that's the lookahead
00:21:21  <coopserver> <Sylf> let's see what can be done around that area
00:21:28  <coopserver> <Sylf> we can tackle one area at a time
00:22:32  <coopserver> <John> 8 bridges?
00:23:08  <coopserver> <Sylf> yeah, that should work
00:24:54  <coopserver> <Sylf> those bridges now occupy less space
00:25:06  <coopserver> <Sylf> so, just north of there, we have more space to do other stuff
00:25:40  <coopserver> <Sylf> here's one trick...
00:25:47  <coopserver> <o11c> isn't the pair of bridges just northwest of those bad
00:25:57  <coopserver> <o11c> because the split/join is both the same way
00:26:09  <coopserver> <Sylf> if we separate the two lines, the mergers gets easier
00:27:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> see
00:27:21  <coopserver> <John> yup
00:27:28  <coopserver> <Sylf> the double bridges now turned into a balancer
00:28:27  <coopserver> <John> hold on.. that's.. .
00:28:56  <coopserver> <Sylf> question about something?
00:29:32  <coopserver> <John> oh I see what you did there
00:30:00  <coopserver> <Sylf> we're good so far?
00:30:01  <coopserver> <John> you took the double bridges
00:30:11  <coopserver> <John> and didn't join them
00:30:19  <coopserver> <Sylf> right
00:30:20  <coopserver> <John> like right after,
00:30:33  <coopserver> <John> you joined them into the output
00:30:57  <coopserver> <John> yeah, clever
00:31:02  <coopserver> <Sylf> for both Join A and Join B, they have inputs from both lines
00:31:09  <coopserver> <Sylf> so that's the line balancing
00:31:37  <coopserver> <Sylf> we can use the same trick else where as well
00:31:55  <coopserver> <Sylf> we can move on to the part just north of those 2 joins
00:32:22  <coopserver> <Sylf> so, I'm going to use the double bridge there
00:32:37  <LMBproninja> Sylf, thanks I got into the Welcome server
00:32:59  <coopserver> <Sylf> let's see if we can mix the lines like that
00:33:00  <LMBproninja> Total noob at coop so I didn't want to disturb the Public game
00:33:13  <coopserver> <Sylf> now we need to start counting tiles to give each lines enough waiting spaces
00:33:25  <LMBproninja> First time multiplayer ottd, it's very cool
00:33:50  <coopserver> <John> This CL != TL needs getting used to
00:34:10  <coopserver> <Sylf> multiplayer is the only way to go ;)
00:34:16  <coopserver> <John> I'm still quite confused how that works
00:34:19  <LMBproninja> My eyes are open
00:34:39  <LMBproninja> But my brain is overloading lo
00:34:41  <LMBproninja> lol
00:35:04  <coopserver> <Sylf> hrm
00:36:28  <coopserver> <Sylf> so...
00:36:36  <coopserver> <Sylf> here's one thing about TL4 CL2
00:36:46  <coopserver> <Sylf> see the !SLOW part
00:36:48  <coopserver> <John> Oh
00:36:50  <coopserver> <John> yeah
00:36:58  <coopserver> <Sylf> normally, that would be ok, especially with TL3
00:37:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> but that alas, we're playing TL 4
00:37:18  <coopserver> <John> that should be OK with any TL
00:37:25  <coopserver> <John> right???
00:38:29  <coopserver> <Sylf> hrm
00:38:36  <coopserver> <Sylf> oh wait
00:38:49  <coopserver> <Sylf> that line will be a duplicate
00:38:56  <coopserver> <o11c> /me has long since lost track of what's supposed to connect to what, and is glad he's not playing yet
00:38:57  <coopserver> <John> see !Hypocrysy
00:39:13  <coopserver> <Sylf> actually, that's not slow
00:39:23  <coopserver> <Sylf> only when you do that, it's slow
00:39:36  <coopserver> <Sylf> that's and you're not slow again
00:41:51  <coopserver> <Sylf> crap
00:43:31  <coopserver> <John> About that prio
00:43:44  <coopserver> <Sylf> and just like that, that part is simpler than before
00:44:19  <coopserver> <Sylf> yes?
00:44:54  <coopserver> <John> do we really need like 6-7 tiles of priority for 4-tile trains?
00:45:10  <coopserver> <Sylf> why do you think so?
00:46:10  <coopserver> <John> ^ right?
00:46:13  <coopserver> <Sylf> yes
00:47:05  <coopserver> <Sylf> you think the prio should be bigger?
00:47:18  <coopserver> <Sylf> or smaller?
00:47:21  <coopserver> <John> I think it should be smaller
00:48:11  <coopserver> <Sylf> maybe.  we'll see
00:48:25  <coopserver> <John> okay :)
00:48:42  <coopserver> <Sylf> now, we have 2 more sections
00:49:02  <coopserver> <Sylf> first, we'll work on the merger going north
00:49:03  <coopserver> <John> what do you mean by signal gap
00:49:11  <coopserver> <Sylf> which one?
00:49:23  <coopserver> <Sylf> add ! or signalgap2 or something so I'll know
00:50:13  <coopserver> <Sylf> ok, so
00:50:14  <coopserver> <John> ywah
00:50:21  <coopserver> <John> I know it's ugly
00:50:30  <coopserver> <Sylf> a train that's taking that red path
00:50:45  <coopserver> <Sylf> there is that one section in the middle of the cross that has 2 tiles without a signal
00:50:50  <coopserver> <Sylf> that's the signal gap
00:51:15  <coopserver> <Sylf> so, any time you cross lines like that, it's a no-no
00:51:36  <coopserver> <John> CL?
00:51:53  <coopserver> <o11c> that makes a double left turn with the one right before the bridge, right?
00:51:54  <coopserver> <Sylf> yes, we'll need to be careful with CL with config like that
00:52:09  <coopserver> <John> esp. here when its really just for double bridges
00:52:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> but actually, to make the whole hub smaller, we're going to move the merger further south
00:52:51  <coopserver> <John> sooo much terraforming :)
00:53:03  <coopserver> <Sylf> and when you start to see how it can be done, the whole lot of magic happens
00:55:31  <coopserver> <Sylf> there, that wasn't so terrible
00:55:39  <coopserver> <Sylf> :)
00:55:59  <coopserver> <o11c> that S bend just before is silly
00:56:11  <coopserver> <Sylf> that?
00:56:13  <coopserver> <o11c> yeah
00:56:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> yeah
00:56:15  <coopserver> <Sylf> it was
00:56:20  <coopserver> <John> :)
00:56:31  <coopserver> <o11c> afk, but it's nice watching
00:58:16  <coopserver> <John> wow that's starting to look like a nice hub
00:58:21  <coopserver> <Sylf> it's not the prettiest, but that'll work
00:58:38  <coopserver> <Sylf> :)  it's just being able to picture what fits where
00:58:46  <coopserver> <Sylf> now comes the painful part
00:58:48  <coopserver> <John> I'm out of practice really
00:58:55  <coopserver> <John> painful, what?
00:59:02  <coopserver> <Sylf> destroying the whole lot we built a while ago, spending so much time
00:59:18  <coopserver> <John> noooooooooooooooo...............................
00:59:24  <coopserver> <John> :)
00:59:47  <coopserver> *** BallC has joined company #1
00:59:52  <coopserver> <Sylf> and all of sudden, we're left with a split that's so far away from the rest :D
00:59:54  <coopserver> <BallC> back
01:01:58  <coopserver> <Sylf> just like that, we have
01:02:04  <coopserver> <Sylf> a pretty handsome hub
01:02:06  <coopserver> <John> A diagonal curve of 1.5 is CL2, always?
01:02:12  <coopserver> <Sylf> yup.
01:02:21  <coopserver> <John> good
01:02:44  <coopserver> <BallC> Q on that CL1 sign
01:02:50  <coopserver> <Sylf> all of sudden, the BBH sign is not in synch with the placement of the hub itself :P
01:02:51  <coopserver> <BallC> I thought back and forth it was fine?
01:03:40  <coopserver> <Sylf> ok, on that SLOW? thing I just changed
01:03:47  <coopserver> <Sylf> do you think it'll be slow?
01:04:05  <coopserver> <John> depends
01:04:12  <coopserver> <BallC> I thought it was only two turns in the same direction
01:04:26  <coopserver> <John> depends on the train
01:04:47  <coopserver> <Sylf> this is the train
01:04:51  <coopserver> <Sylf> it has the CL of 2
01:05:09  <coopserver> <John> the wagons are .5?
01:05:15  <coopserver> <Sylf> yup.
01:05:44  <coopserver> <Sylf> wagons of 0.25 can have different characteristics :P
01:06:08  <coopserver> <John> see blue
01:06:09  <coopserver> <Sylf> 0.25 are like the maglev wagons, chameleon wagons and such
01:06:14  <coopserver> <John> thats the problem
01:06:24  <coopserver> <John> perhaps
01:06:28  <coopserver> <John> idk
01:06:29  <coopserver> <Sylf> but we have 2 tiles in the middle
01:06:41  <coopserver> <Sylf> so isn't that CL2?
01:06:50  <coopserver> <John> dude.. I have no idea
01:06:55  <coopserver> <Sylf> ok, the big answer is , yes, it is slow
01:06:56  <coopserver> <BallC> it is CL2
01:07:00  <coopserver> <Sylf> but not because of that part
01:07:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> but it's the 1 tile jog that's causing the slow down
01:07:43  <coopserver> <Sylf> .....
01:07:44  <coopserver> <BallC> no slow down
01:07:48  <coopserver> <John> wait, that was full speed
01:07:49  <coopserver> <Sylf> and it proves me wrong
01:08:00  <coopserver> <BallC> slowed to 200
01:08:06  <coopserver> <John> and that's obviously no CL2
01:08:10  <coopserver> <BallC> as soon as it hit the second turn
01:08:34  <coopserver> <Sylf> so, what I'm curious about is...
01:09:15  <coopserver> <BallC> full speed
01:09:44  <coopserver> <BallC> 200 as soon as it hit the 2nd turn
01:10:23  <coopserver> <BallC> so point taken -- no 1 tile "jogs"
01:11:20  <coopserver> <John> I'm confused
01:11:26  <coopserver> <John> how is CL calculated?
01:11:52  <coopserver> <BallC> there's a wiki article with pictures
01:12:43  <coopserver> <Sylf>
01:12:49  <coopserver> <Sylf> that's where I go to
01:13:12  <coopserver> <Sylf> from that chart, we read ... we're playing with monorail (read the monorail column)
01:13:28  <coopserver> <Sylf> and the train has tilt, so gets 20% speed bonus on curves
01:13:51  <coopserver> <Sylf> CL2 is 3 half tiles, so...
01:14:11  <coopserver> <Sylf> 198km/h (monorail) * 120% = something around 236km/h
01:14:50  <coopserver> <BallC> John: I just made a CL2 loop near the network plan
01:15:43  <coopserver> <John> I get it, sylf
01:16:21  <coopserver> <John> wait, BALLC
01:16:28  <coopserver> <BallC> ?
01:16:32  <coopserver> <John> that is kind of obvious :)
01:16:57  <coopserver> <John> I meant how do you calculate CL
01:17:05  <coopserver> <John> from train you use
01:18:40  <coopserver> <John> it just seems like an arbitrary number, you know
01:19:39  <coopserver> <John> but yeah, thanks :)
01:20:06  <coopserver> <John> and, while you guys are here...
01:20:27  <coopserver> <John> What evil kind of magic is SRNW?
01:20:35  <coopserver> <Sylf> one word
01:20:47  <coopserver> <Sylf> rail_firstred_twoway_eol
01:21:02  <coopserver> <Sylf> :P  some kind of abracadabra magic word
01:21:05  <coopserver> <BallC> thats one word? :P
01:22:20  <coopserver> <Sylf> We can categorise SRNW into 3 different types
01:23:12  <coopserver> <Sylf> standard SRNW, where there is one shared order for all trains on the network (or one shared order per cargo type), and it hits the stations/waypoints that's in the order
01:23:18  <coopserver> <John> so using two-way signals you make trains without orders go where they need to?
01:24:15  <coopserver> <Sylf> unreacheable target SRNW - a mechanism where trains are given order to go to a station or waypoint that's unreacheable from the network (using it as path finder trap to force certain behavior)
01:24:18  <coopserver> <John> (ignore my snarky comments :))
01:24:20  <coopserver> <Sylf> or trains without orders.
01:24:43  <coopserver> <Sylf> the first 2 types are actually pretty similar
01:25:05  <coopserver> <Sylf> basically, you give them a possible path to that whatever target station
01:25:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> the trains enter that path, but on its path is a station where the trains can pick up cargo
01:25:44  <coopserver> <John> so they implicitly stop and pick up the cargo...
01:25:59  <coopserver> <Sylf> then, all we need is some kind of mechanism, so the trains from the ML wait in front of a station until there is enough to fill that train
01:26:39  <coopserver> <Sylf> trains without orders is not much different, except for the fact that the trains have no target whatsoever
01:26:55  <coopserver> <Sylf> so we need to use pathfinder penalties to force trains to those station branches
01:27:35  <coopserver> <Sylf> then, we exploit that magic word setting
01:27:50  <coopserver> <John> how do you discriminate between cargo types?
01:28:15  <coopserver> <Sylf> when a train comes across a two-way signal that's red, that signal has such a high penalty point that the trains consider that line a dead-end
01:28:32  <coopserver> <Sylf> if you play with different cargoes, you set up unique way points for each cargo
01:28:56  <coopserver> <Sylf> or in a simpler set-up, you sed up completely separate network for each cargo type
01:29:07  <coopserver> <John> all right
01:29:48  <coopserver> <Sylf>
01:29:57  <coopserver> <Sylf> that's the game that got me really fascinated with SRNW
01:30:20  <coopserver> <Sylf> 4 separate networks of SRNW
01:31:33  <coopserver> <John> will look at it, thanks
01:32:35  <coopserver> <Sylf> we don't play srnw often though
01:32:45  <coopserver> <Sylf> srnw game
01:33:05  <coopserver> <Sylf> peolpe use it as a part of SBahn or feeder network as a part of larger game
01:33:26  <coopserver> <John> It's an interesting concept, though
01:34:20  <coopserver> <John> what do you play?
01:34:22  <coopserver> <Sylf> it took me a while to understand how it works
01:34:38  <coopserver> <Sylf> me personally, or us the coop?
01:35:07  <coopserver> <John> I mean't the coop
01:35:25  <coopserver> <Sylf> a standard cargo game like this is common
01:35:31  <coopserver> <Sylf> no frills
01:35:33  <coopserver> <John> It seems quite dead here, or is it just the date
01:35:37  <coopserver> <Sylf> just try to fill the map as much as possible
01:37:57  <coopserver> <John> I get that this new trainset is developed by you?
01:38:14  <coopserver> <John> (and by you I mean someone from #openttdcoop)
01:38:17  <coopserver> <Sylf> you mean NUTS?
01:38:20  <coopserver> <John> yup
01:38:42  <coopserver> <Sylf> it's actually mostly one man's job
01:38:47  <coopserver> <Sylf> V435000
01:39:16  <coopserver> <John> He also made the new industry set, right?
01:39:24  <coopserver> <Sylf> now that we have that, which is made with coop style playing in mind, that's the train set we use the most
01:39:28  <coopserver> <Sylf> yes
01:39:52  <coopserver> <Sylf> but in the past, coop members have created other stuff as well
01:40:29  <coopserver> <John> such as?
01:41:15  <coopserver> <Sylf> I think, like german town names, swiss town names at least?
01:41:29  <coopserver> <Sylf> the logic engine comes from here too
01:41:43  <coopserver> <Sylf> I made my own japanese city names
01:41:58  <coopserver> <Sylf> someone here also made the base cost mod
01:42:01  <coopserver> <Sylf> I think
01:42:33  <coopserver> <Sylf> then there are some members who have contributed to the core of openttd code in the past
01:42:40  <LMBproninja> You guys rock
01:42:43  <coopserver> <John> How long are you playing coop?
01:42:44  <coopserver> <Sylf> and probably still do today
01:43:12  <coopserver> <Sylf> coop started probably 8-9 years ago
01:44:20  <coopserver> <John> and been playing ever since?
01:44:36  <coopserver> <Sylf> I believe so.
01:44:50  <coopserver> <John> Oh, wait.. I mean you you :)
01:45:05  <coopserver> <Sylf> me personally, joined here 4 years ago
01:46:05  <coopserver> <John> So... What's new in the community?
01:46:24  <coopserver> <John> I used to play here at# openttdcoop
01:46:30  <coopserver> <John> like 7 years ago
01:46:40  <coopserver> <Sylf> hmm well
01:47:00  <coopserver> <Sylf> a whole lot of new GRFs since 7 years ago
01:47:04  <coopserver> <Sylf> we like some of them
01:47:41  <coopserver> <Sylf> those concepts like SRNW probably wasn't around 7 years ago
01:47:50  <coopserver> <Sylf> but it wasn't exactly new by the time I started playing
01:47:54  <coopserver> <John> Nope, that's why I asked
01:48:05  <coopserver> <John> Actually, not even PBS were around
01:48:31  <coopserver> <Sylf> playing with trains that's longer than CL has been around since some time ago
01:49:15  <coopserver> <John> I've browsed the wiki
01:49:28  <coopserver> <John> lots'a new stuff there
01:49:46  <coopserver> <John> I like the bananas
01:50:35  <coopserver> <John> but, personally, I'm kind of sad there's no more moneymaker
01:50:40  <coopserver> <John> at game start
01:50:42  <coopserver> <Sylf> craaap
01:51:00  <coopserver> <John> what?
01:51:10  <coopserver> <Sylf> I just bombed my station
01:52:37  <coopserver> <John> that's quite awful
01:53:43  <coopserver> <John> do you use the logic-trains and circuits much?
01:53:57  <coopserver> <Sylf> not often
01:54:22  <coopserver> <Sylf> they have limited usefulness
01:55:25  <coopserver> <Sylf> I'm gonna be focusing on this eyecandy for a while...
01:55:39  <coopserver> <Sylf> I was thinking about dinner just a minute ago  ;_;
01:55:44  <coopserver> <Sylf> dinner can wait
01:55:50  <coopserver> <Sylf> station can too, but station gets the prio
01:56:11  *** Hazzard has joined #openttdcoop
01:56:57  <coopserver> <John> :) Dinner?
01:57:25  <coopserver> <John> What TZ? It's like 4 AM here
01:57:49  <coopserver> <BallC> 10PM here (Florida)
01:58:10  <coopserver> <o11c> 19:00 here (Washington State)
01:58:26  <coopserver> <Sylf> 9PM
01:59:12  <coopserver> <John> Good evening to all America's there, then
02:03:09  <coopserver> <John> So, rubber factory station, how big should I start with?
02:03:54  <coopserver> <Sylf> see the food stations in the north and south
02:04:09  <coopserver> <Sylf> they shoud be good guides for the size
02:04:38  <coopserver> <Sylf> misus the eyecandies
02:05:07  <LMBproninja> Midday downunder
02:05:08  <Hazzard> !password
02:05:08  <coopserver> Hazzard: regexp
02:05:32  <coopserver> <Sylf> that's the timezone I used to live long long time ago
02:05:43  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
02:05:47  <coopserver> *** Hazzard has joined
02:05:48  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
02:05:54  <coopserver> <John> Wait, isn't rubber a primary?
02:06:16  <coopserver> <John> why does it need a huge f'n station?
02:06:45  <coopserver> <Sylf> the RUBBER spot is for a factory drop
02:06:48  <coopserver> <Sylf> dedicated to rubber
02:06:57  <coopserver> <Sylf> call it a condom factory if you want
02:07:09  <coopserver> <John> right, euphemisms
02:09:03  <coopserver> *** o11c has left the game (general timeout)
02:10:41  <coopserver> <Sylf> oh well, this is good enough
02:12:50  <coopserver> *** Hazzard has left the game (Leaving)
02:13:13  <LMBproninja> lol
02:19:12  <LMBproninja> I don't know if you have hotels in that game, but you could make a killing delivering there
02:30:23  <coopserver> <John> What's up with the PZ server?
02:57:14  <coopserver> *** Sylf has left the game (Leaving)
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04:02:37  <o11c> !password
04:02:37  <coopserver> o11c: ludvig
04:03:13  <o11c> !password
04:03:13  <coopserver> o11c: rubber
04:03:18  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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04:12:20  <coopserver> <o11c> is anything being built right now or is time just passing?
04:12:31  <coopserver> <BallC> i'm working on my BBH
04:14:54  <Sylf> back to BBH 01?
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04:15:08  <coopserver> <BallC> yeah, doing some review/cleanup
04:15:47  <coopserver> <BallC> trying to simplify some of the merges
04:16:27  <Djanxy> !password
04:16:27  <coopserver> Djanxy: rubber
04:16:44  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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04:16:56  <coopserver> <Djanxy> hola
04:17:06  <coopserver> <BallC> howdy
04:17:40  <Sylf> this is turning out to be the weirdest day of my coop years
04:17:50  <coopserver> <Djanxy> what's up
04:17:52  <coopserver> <BallC> why is that
04:18:01  <Sylf> I see more people in this time zone than European evening
04:18:06  <Sylf> that NEVER happens
04:18:17  <Sylf> or, NEVER until today
04:18:30  <coopserver> <Djanxy> european morning represent :)
04:18:46  <coopserver> <Djanxy> or, very late night for me rather
04:18:52  <Sylf> :P
04:19:09  <coopserver> <Djanxy> just thought I'd have a lurk before bed
04:19:34  <Sylf> oh, you're just teasing us with your presence
04:19:43  <coopserver> <Djanxy> as always
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04:33:26  <coopserver> <Djanxy> John, you are missing a piece of track in your hub ;)
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13:28:51  <Djanxy> !password
13:28:51  <coopserver> Djanxy: unpack
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13:44:53  <Djanxy> !ip
13:44:53  <coopserver> Djanxy:
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14:53:45  <LMBproninja> G'night all, enjoy!
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15:13:19  <Maraxus> !password
15:13:19  <coopserver> Maraxus: cleans
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15:25:56  <RTM> !passwoard
15:26:33  <RTM> !help
15:26:33  <coopserver> RTM:
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15:28:09  <RTM_> !password
15:28:09  <coopserver> RTM_: access
15:29:23  <RTM_> hi lo
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15:32:38  <RTM_> !password
15:32:38  <coopserver> RTM_: access
15:33:39  <RTM_> !password
15:33:39  <coopserver> RTM_: marker
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15:34:13  <coopserver> <RTM> hi Djanxy
15:34:17  <coopserver> <RTM> hi Maraxus
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16:30:01  <Jam35> !password
16:30:01  <coopserver> Jam35: forest
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16:34:26  <coopserver> <Djanxy> hey Ja,
16:34:32  <coopserver> <Djanxy> Jam rather
16:34:39  <coopserver> <Djanxy> you cheater
16:34:50  <coopserver> <Jam35> eh?
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16:35:04  <coopserver> <Djanxy> singleplayer :)
16:35:10  <coopserver> <Jam35> no
16:35:16  <coopserver> <Jam35> I did not set that
16:35:18  <coopserver> <Djanxy> oh
16:35:30  <coopserver> <Jam35> due to lack of interest I believe :)
16:35:36  <coopserver> <Djanxy> guess it was left off, didn' even bother to check
16:38:17  <coopserver> <Djanxy> think i might have went overboard on the town drop capacity when i was tired and bored (and a bit stoned) late last night
16:38:46  <coopserver> <Jam35> yeah, looks like it was made by someone on drugs :P
16:38:50  <coopserver> <Djanxy> lol
16:38:59  <coopserver> <Jam35> it's fine :)
16:39:24  <coopserver> <Djanxy> it's a shameless copy/paste with a few modifications, but I like the layout, it's kinda fun and different
16:40:15  <coopserver> <Djanxy> guess some eyecandy would be in order
16:40:31  <coopserver> <Jam35> I don't recognise it but it's quite compact
16:41:29  <coopserver> <Djanxy> something i saw when i was getting back into ottd (when i started playing here) - was reading a lot of wiki and examples etc
16:41:54  <coopserver> <Djanxy> dont think it was on openttdcoop though
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16:48:13  <coopserver> <Jam35> my MSH looks hard to expand
16:48:57  <coopserver> <Djanxy> in my eyes they always look hard to expand :)
16:49:19  <coopserver> <Jam35> :) I can see a way to make it easier but not doing it now
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16:51:07  <coopserver> <Sylf> awww
16:51:16  <coopserver> <Sylf> the poor chopper is lost
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16:52:20  <coopserver> <Jam35> I have no sympathy for it
16:52:21  <coopserver> <Djanxy> oh :)
16:52:35  <coopserver> <Sylf> it's my toy
16:52:39  <coopserver> <Djanxy> nah, just landed
16:52:52  <coopserver> <Sylf> I gave it new orders
16:52:55  <coopserver> <Djanxy> aha
16:53:31  <coopserver> <Jam35> steel mill looks challenging :)
16:53:41  <coopserver> <Djanxy> noticed that too
16:53:54  <coopserver> <Sylf> I think it'll be fun
16:54:13  <coopserver> <Jam35> more fun if the copper would die
16:54:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> I see pickup between anio montes and the network plan
16:54:24  <coopserver> <Sylf> and drop between the town and the mine
16:54:38  <coopserver> <Sylf> the line up to the pickup would gou around the town
16:54:45  <coopserver> <Sylf> so it'll need some additional land
16:55:45  <coopserver> <Jam35> I might have a look soon, just about to eat
16:55:55  <coopserver> <Jam35> or maybe do something else :)
16:56:20  <coopserver> <Jam35> in here I mean :P
16:56:26  <coopserver> <Djanxy> :P
16:57:59  <coopserver> <Jam35> bbh01 has a few slight issues
16:58:18  <coopserver> <Jam35> mainly choice/bay length related
16:58:33  <coopserver> <Sylf> yeah
16:58:38  <coopserver> <Jam35> but easy to fix
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16:59:19  <coopserver> <Djanxy> how about the track that ends very abruptly
16:59:25  <coopserver> <Jam35> not touching it yet
16:59:29  <coopserver> <Jam35> where ?
16:59:41  <coopserver> <Djanxy> at the west end
17:00:01  <coopserver> <Sylf> XD
17:00:02  <coopserver> <Djanxy> !here
17:00:09  <coopserver> <Jam35> oh that :)
17:00:20  <coopserver> <Jam35> guess it's wip
17:00:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> the merger around there can be much smaller, really
17:00:54  <coopserver> <Sylf> and perhaps kill some CL issues at the same time
17:01:11  <coopserver> <Jam35> also 2 bridges that act as one
17:01:24  <coopserver> <Jam35> well let him return
17:01:31  <coopserver> <Sylf> yeah
17:01:34  <coopserver> <Jam35> it's ok for 1st go
17:01:43  <coopserver> <Sylf> I won't touch it without his presence
17:01:56  <coopserver> <Sylf> if it's fixed, he should see how it's done
17:02:08  <coopserver> <Jam35> sure
17:02:20  <coopserver> <Jam35> right semi-afk
17:02:22  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has joined spectators
17:15:17  <coopserver> <Djanxy> Oh man, the profit graph. Heli doing work
17:15:25  <coopserver> <Sylf> :P
17:17:29  <coopserver> <Djanxy> never really comprehended how to use that gap command - like how long does bridges need to be before 3 is needed etc.
17:17:57  <coopserver> <Sylf> let's try with an example
17:18:01  <coopserver> <Sylf> @@gap 4
17:18:02  <Webster> coopserver: (gap <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1.
17:18:04  <coopserver> <Djanxy> what i hope :)
17:18:23  <coopserver> <Djanxy> hoped*
17:18:26  <coopserver> <Sylf> @@(gap 4)
17:18:27  <Webster> coopserver: For Trainlength of 4: <= 10 needs 2, 11 - 16 needs 3, 17 - 22 needs 4.
17:18:58  <coopserver> <Sylf> so, we need 2 bridges if the signal gap is less than or equal to 10
17:19:16  <coopserver> <Djanxy> yeah thanks
17:19:21  <coopserver> <Jam35> my rule of thumb is gap 9 until I need 3
17:19:28  <coopserver> <Jam35> cos always play TL3
17:19:37  <coopserver> <Sylf> yup, pretty much
17:20:19  <coopserver> <Sylf> I wouldn't go more than 3 tunnels/bridges though
17:20:31  <coopserver> <Djanxy> @@(gap 3)
17:20:32  <Webster> coopserver: For Trainlength of 3: <= 9 needs 2, 10 - 14 needs 3, 15 - 19 needs 4.
17:20:37  <coopserver> <Sylf> unless you have some very unique design like...
17:20:43  <coopserver> <Sylf> @archive
17:20:58  <coopserver> <Sylf> @@archive
17:20:58  <Webster> | |
17:21:03  <coopserver> <Djanxy> yeah, was just thinking how far 3 could take it
17:21:34  <coopserver> <Djanxy> will likely have a go at MSH rubber
17:24:22  <Sylf>
17:24:33  <Sylf> that hub had some awesomely long tunnels
17:25:05  <Djanxy> oh right, watched a lot of that evolving ;)
17:25:31  <Sylf> I couldn't keep up with it
17:25:45  <coopserver> <Jam35> who was building steel factory/sawmill MSH
17:26:06  <coopserver> <Sylf> I don't know, but my guess is camo
17:26:13  <Djanxy> signal gap 60 on some of those :D
17:26:35  <coopserver> <Jam35> it has some weird stuff too
17:26:53  <Sylf> weird connections weird everything
17:26:58  <coopserver> <Jam35> might be workable :)
17:27:04  <Sylf> I was going to wait if he was going to finish it
17:27:15  <Sylf> or see if it's actually a finished product
17:28:02  <coopserver> <Djanxy> tracks from south split twice from 1 track and not from the other
17:28:29  <coopserver> <Sylf> let's not start XD
17:28:45  <coopserver> <Djanxy> nah, there's lots of stuff - just what first caught my eye
17:29:20  <coopserver> <Sylf> He'll probably be able to see some errors if he signaled the hub as he built it
17:29:28  <coopserver> <Djanxy> mm
17:33:54  <BallC> ooo I hear you guys talking about BBH01 :)
17:34:03  <coopserver> <Sylf> yup, some
17:34:18  <BallC> !password
17:34:18  <coopserver> BallC: occurs
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17:34:31  <coopserver> <Sylf> now thinking about building steel mill stations...
17:34:39  <coopserver> <Djanxy> good luck :)
17:34:56  <coopserver> <Djanxy> if that ore mine wasnt in the middle of it all
17:35:23  <coopserver> <Sylf> The water source is actually bothering me more
17:35:28  <coopserver> <Djanxy> yeah, that too
17:36:07  <coopserver> <BallC> @gap 4
17:36:35  <coopserver> <Sylf> use double @@, and enclose the rest of the command with paranthesis
17:36:36  <coopserver> <BallC> @@gap 4
17:36:37  <Webster> coopserver: (gap <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1.
17:36:45  <coopserver> <BallC> @@(gap 4)
17:36:46  <Webster> coopserver: For Trainlength of 4: <= 10 needs 2, 11 - 16 needs 3, 17 - 22 needs 4.
17:37:09  <coopserver> <Sylf> hmm
17:37:22  <coopserver> <Sylf> I see extra question marks in game, which I don't see in IRC
17:37:42  <coopserver> <BallC> same
17:37:44  <coopserver> <Sylf> oh, they're the bold character markers
17:38:56  <coopserver> <BallC> ok, was just checking my MOAR BRIDGES marker -- i've got 8 tiles between the signals and each line splits to 3 bridges so i should be good.
17:39:22  <coopserver> <Sylf> you actually need only 2 bridges per line, actually
17:40:14  <coopserver> <BallC> alright, that should make it easier to handle this derpy 1-tile CL right before the bridges as well
17:40:57  <coopserver> <Djanxy> also, they are not synced the way they are now
17:41:43  <coopserver> <BallC> the paralleligram deal, right...
17:41:51  <coopserver> <Sylf> yup
17:41:54  <coopserver> <Djanxy> you can say that yes
17:42:12  <coopserver> <Djanxy> or just as long as all lines have the same amount of tiles totravel
17:42:20  <coopserver> <Djanxy> to travel*
17:43:06  <coopserver> <Sylf> you don't need to jog back
17:43:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> that next curve is CL3 right now
17:43:50  <coopserver> <BallC> sorry, which one are you talking about?
17:43:56  <coopserver> <BallC> what i was just fixing on the south side of the water?
17:43:57  <coopserver> <Sylf> that one you just fixed
17:43:59  <coopserver> <BallC> ok
17:44:51  <coopserver> <Sylf> I would have kept that bridge
17:45:07  <coopserver> <BallC> and chopped the top one?
17:45:13  <coopserver> <Sylf> and go that way
17:48:09  <coopserver> <Sylf> now, that mark of !CL still stands
17:48:24  <coopserver> <Jam35> neeg signals is the best sign :P
17:48:30  <coopserver> <BallC> lol
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17:48:37  <coopserver> <Sylf> oooooh
17:48:39  <coopserver> <BallC> b/c it's a one tile jog
17:48:50  <coopserver> <Sylf> I knew something looked "off" on that sign!
17:49:09  <coopserver> <Jam35> It's better that way
17:49:47  <coopserver> <Sylf> my hint for that CL fix is a path signal
17:52:05  <coopserver> <BallC> you sure that CL still stands?
17:52:12  <coopserver> <BallC> I'm playing with the test track
17:52:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> yup
17:52:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> do you have a test track here?
17:52:35  <coopserver> <BallC> yeah, down where we had it before
17:53:00  <coopserver> <Sylf> that's closer to my cl issue
17:53:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> the train slows down to 200km/h
17:53:32  <coopserver> <BallC> i don't see two right turns at the CL sign though
17:54:20  <coopserver> <BallC> i see...
17:54:26  <coopserver> <BallC> there's a R-L-R
17:54:30  <coopserver> <Djanxy> that part
17:54:31  <o11c> !password
17:54:32  <coopserver> o11c: toobar
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17:54:56  <coopserver> <Sylf> that, and the problem is fixed
17:55:19  <coopserver> <BallC> ok let me see it how it is right now
17:55:36  <coopserver> <Sylf> yeah, with that knowledge, my hint about PBS should make sense
17:56:43  <coopserver> <BallC> ok so PBS over the bridge
17:56:52  <coopserver> <BallC> means i don't need the extra straight tile before
17:57:53  <coopserver> <Sylf> don't forget the signal there
17:58:02  <coopserver> <Sylf> and that spot is fixed
17:58:13  <coopserver> <BallC> hmmm
17:58:24  <coopserver> <BallC> so it might be a more advanced thing i'm not understanding
17:58:42  <coopserver> <Sylf> what's that?
17:58:43  <coopserver> <BallC> but I read that presignal is preferred over PBS on the wiki
17:58:48  <coopserver> <Sylf> it is
17:58:50  <coopserver> <BallC> due to pathfinder stuff maybe?
17:59:23  <coopserver> <Sylf> with presignals, we're always in control what path the trains will take in most cases
17:59:33  <coopserver> <Sylf> wth path signals, we have less control
18:00:19  <coopserver> <Sylf> sure, we can fix that PBS/presignal issue with 1 tile of teraforming, but...
18:00:30  <coopserver> <Sylf> meh, this works.
18:00:39  <coopserver> <BallC> little variety :)
18:00:43  <coopserver> <BallC> never hurts
18:00:59  <coopserver> <Sylf> the rest is up to you being not obsessive compulsive
18:01:01  <coopserver> <o11c> hm, there's no right turn from the southeast to the northeast
18:01:04  <coopserver> <Sylf> or subdue it
18:01:35  <coopserver> <o11c> near !short waiting bay
18:01:49  <coopserver> <BallC> got it thanks
18:01:55  <coopserver> <Sylf> yes and no
18:02:02  <coopserver> <Sylf> it does have right turn already
18:02:09  <coopserver> <Sylf> it just doesn't have choices
18:02:14  <coopserver> <o11c> 3 of 4, yeah
18:02:16  <coopserver> <Sylf> that's a smaler issue compared to others
18:02:54  <coopserver> <Sylf> I have some ideas about that need right turn spot for later
18:03:24  <coopserver> <o11c> so are the bigger issues in the left turn?
18:03:55  <coopserver> <Sylf> the bigger issues are the stuff I've noted with !
18:04:29  <coopserver> <Sylf> the bottom !short waiting bays is easy to fix
18:04:43  <coopserver> <o11c> I can't see that one; I can see most of the other issues ...
18:04:59  <coopserver> <Sylf> just below your need right turn sign
18:05:09  <coopserver> <o11c> ah wait, do you mean short across the diagonal?
18:05:16  <coopserver> <o11c> no, I see the sign, just not the problem
18:05:35  <coopserver> <BallC> TL4 but 3 tile bays
18:05:40  <coopserver> <Sylf> those red rails are 3 tiles each
18:06:00  <coopserver> <o11c> oh right, the piece of track doesn't count because it has the signal
18:06:39  <coopserver> <Sylf> that's the fix
18:06:43  <coopserver> <Sylf> so that's easy
18:06:45  <coopserver> <BallC> yeah you beat me to it
18:06:46  <coopserver> <BallC> :P
18:06:55  <coopserver> <Sylf> you have 3 more to go ;)
18:07:33  <coopserver> <o11c> is the red color a separate rail type or something? like normal/electric/monorail/maglev in vanilla?
18:07:56  <coopserver> <Sylf> not separate like that
18:08:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> white, red, yellow, green and blue rails are all universal rails
18:08:24  <coopserver> <Sylf> any trains, monorails and maglevs can run on them
18:08:38  <coopserver> <o11c> so same mechanism, but accepts all trains on all rails
18:08:43  <coopserver> <Sylf> within NUTS set, there are trains that get different stats depending on the color of the rails
18:09:52  <coopserver> <Sylf> let's go back to !neeg signals
18:09:59  <coopserver> <Sylf> that sign someone silently fixed
18:10:27  <coopserver> <BallC> yeah so this was a bridge that i didn't do the extra tile on
18:10:43  <coopserver> <Sylf> let's see how we can fix that
18:11:02  <coopserver> <Sylf> ta-da
18:11:04  <coopserver> <Sylf> fixed
18:11:06  <coopserver> <o11c> why not move the bridged left and make the track under straighter?
18:11:09  <coopserver> <BallC> stagger them
18:11:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> yeah, we need to fix that track under them
18:11:52  <coopserver> <Sylf> there, no more CL issue there
18:12:14  <coopserver> <BallC> cool :)
18:12:24  <coopserver> <Sylf> hm,
18:12:33  <coopserver> <Sylf> I just saw that I didn't even need to do that
18:12:45  <coopserver> <Sylf> could've gon that way
18:12:55  <coopserver> <Sylf> oh well, it's all good
18:12:57  <coopserver> <BallC> doh i looked away for a second
18:13:16  <coopserver> <Sylf> that's the old path
18:13:23  <coopserver> <BallC> ahh i was turning left and then right then left again
18:13:28  <coopserver> <BallC> when it could have just been one left
18:14:01  <coopserver> <Sylf> ok, now to the !CL just above it
18:14:12  <coopserver> <BallC> yeah, this left here is where i had the most trouble
18:14:16  <coopserver> <o11c> no reason you can't turn immediately from the bridge
18:14:18  <coopserver> <BallC> i was working on this last night
18:14:25  <coopserver> <Sylf> see where !this goes?
18:14:32  <coopserver> <Sylf> it's not connected, so let's delete that line
18:14:45  <coopserver> <BallC> ok
18:14:46  <coopserver> <Sylf> ooh, already looks simpler
18:15:11  <coopserver> <Sylf> now, instead of waiting to that lake area to do the merge, let's mix and merge right here
18:15:17  <coopserver> <o11c> you're missing one left turn choice, from the right track to the left track
18:15:33  <coopserver> <o11c> or wait, what?
18:15:51  <coopserver> <BallC> you're right 011c, the very top track has no choice
18:16:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> now the lines are mixed and merged
18:16:39  <coopserver> <Sylf> pretty simple?
18:16:59  *** psde has joined #openttdcoop
18:17:05  <psde> !help
18:17:05  <coopserver> psde:
18:17:14  <coopserver> <BallC> yeah, can we do a three-way merge for the bottom set too
18:17:25  <psde> !password
18:17:25  <coopserver> psde: forced
18:17:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> yeah, we can do that too
18:17:38  <coopserver> <Sylf> like that
18:17:46  <coopserver> <o11c> you'll want a blank between tracks for the bridge split anyway
18:17:58  <coopserver> <o11c> ... or I guess you can avoid bridging at all
18:18:05  <coopserver> <BallC> lol
18:18:06  <coopserver> <Sylf> yup
18:18:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> kaboom!
18:19:00  <coopserver> <Sylf> no worries.  you'll start seeing those possibilities in no time
18:19:02  <coopserver> <BallC> i don't know what i was thinking
18:19:03  <coopserver> <BallC> :D
18:19:09  <psde> !revison
18:19:21  <psde> !revision
18:19:21  <coopserver> psde: Game version is r26720. Use Download <os-version> to get a direct download link.
18:19:40  <psde> !download win64
18:19:40  <coopserver> psde:
18:20:28  <coopserver> <Sylf> that double tunnel isn't needed, but it's not hurting anything right now
18:20:33  <coopserver> <Sylf> I'm gonna leave them alone
18:20:42  <coopserver> <o11c> yeah, I was thinking that earlier
18:20:59  <coopserver> <Sylf> let's go up to !check signal signs
18:21:03  <coopserver> <BallC> so on the south merge, i don't need double tunnels there
18:21:11  <coopserver> <BallC> because they're actually going to diff lines?
18:21:22  <coopserver> <Sylf> I think you had some other idea to cross some lines there
18:21:30  <coopserver> <Sylf> but turned out not needing it, but it was left there
18:21:51  <coopserver> <BallC> yeah, i'm talking about further south
18:21:56  <coopserver> <BallC> where we just fixed the bay length issues
18:22:15  <coopserver> <Sylf> we want those deliberate signal gaps there
18:22:25  <coopserver> <Sylf> the signal gaps are used to balance the lines
18:22:32  <coopserver> <Sylf> balance the line loads
18:22:45  <coopserver> <o11c> there are signal gaps on the non-tunnels too
18:22:50  <coopserver> <BallC> ahh otherwise, it'll take two trains to fill that choice
18:23:03  <coopserver> <BallC> ok that makes sense
18:23:18  <coopserver> <Jam35> get that shit done: trains are coming! :)
18:23:24  <coopserver> <BallC> LOL
18:23:25  <coopserver> <Djanxy> :o
18:23:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> :D
18:23:39  <coopserver> <BallC> ok check signal sign
18:23:54  <coopserver> <o11c> so !short waiting bay and !need right turn choice look easy
18:23:55  <coopserver> <BallC> the exit needs to be a two way i presume?
18:23:59  <coopserver> <Sylf> for prio, you want 1 two-way exit signal and 1 two-way combo signal
18:24:04  <coopserver> <o11c> I'm assuming the !check signal is something about precedence
18:24:31  <coopserver> <BallC> nah, i had a one-way there wrongly
18:24:35  <coopserver> <BallC> instead of a two way on the exit signal
18:24:51  <coopserver> <Sylf> ok, the last shit
18:25:08  <coopserver> <Sylf> we'll kill 2 shit with 1 fix
18:25:24  <coopserver> <Sylf> we have a double bridge here
18:25:29  <coopserver> <Sylf> we'll turn that into choices
18:25:50  <coopserver> <o11c> cl?
18:25:52  <psde> !password
18:25:52  <coopserver> psde: growth
18:25:59  <coopserver> <Sylf> no cl issues there
18:26:02  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
18:26:04  <coopserver> *** Player has joined
18:26:05  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
18:26:11  <coopserver> <o11c> at the merge at the north end?
18:26:12  <coopserver> <Sylf> but we still have the short waiting bay
18:26:21  <coopserver> <Sylf> hm, what to do there...
18:26:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> couldn't kill 2 shit with 1 fix
18:26:28  <coopserver> <Sylf> damn
18:26:54  <coopserver> <BallC> back the bridge up?
18:26:57  <coopserver> <Sylf> hm
18:27:08  <coopserver> <o11c> can't you just move the merge forward?
18:27:21  <coopserver> <Sylf> merge forward
18:27:22  <coopserver> <o11c> there's 3 straights before the next turn
18:27:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> yeah, that's what I was thinking yesterday
18:28:19  <coopserver> <o11c> you don't need that, do you?
18:28:22  <coopserver> <o11c> oh
18:28:53  <coopserver> <Jam35> awesome place to spawn a forest
18:29:00  <coopserver> <Sylf> start counting tiles
18:29:01  <coopserver> <Jam35> at rubber factory
18:29:05  <coopserver> <o11c> are those 1.5 turns not cl, really?
18:29:08  <coopserver> <Sylf> and make sure we have good waiting spaces
18:29:11  <coopserver> <Jam35> /unknown will be annoyed
18:29:20  <coopserver> <Sylf> yeah, 3 half tiles are all we need for CL
18:29:33  <coopserver> <o11c> /me takes notes
18:29:41  <coopserver> <o11c> /me is annoyed that /me isn't a thing
18:30:33  <coopserver> <Sylf> :D  so that 1 fix did kill both problems
18:31:21  <coopserver> <Sylf> and fixed the issues without altering the overall design of the hub :)
18:31:40  <coopserver> <Sylf> one last minor !issue
18:31:42  <coopserver> <BallC> awesome
18:32:32  <coopserver> <Sylf> one, when you balance the signal gap, you don't want the signals between the exit signals and the bridges
18:32:56  <coopserver> <Sylf> two, because of the way the turn is made, two lines are not in synch
18:33:10  <coopserver> <Sylf> the lazy fix is to use PBS
18:33:46  <coopserver> <BallC> ok yeah, i was trying to do the presignal stuff instead
18:33:47  <coopserver> <Sylf> the not so lazy fix would have been to let that area take wider turn
18:33:56  <coopserver> *** Player has changed his/her name to psde
18:34:04  <coopserver> <Sylf> like that
18:34:10  <coopserver> <Sylf> it's your choice
18:34:42  <coopserver> <BallC> i like the not lazy choice
18:35:08  <coopserver> <psde> Hi guys. This is my first coop game, is there anything easy I can do without messing things up?
18:35:26  <coopserver> <o11c> psde: suggest you watch a lot like I am
18:35:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> hm
18:35:37  <coopserver> <Sylf> :D  watching is good
18:35:39  <coopserver> <psde> Sure
18:35:40  <coopserver> <BallC> Hi psde -- this is my first coop game too :)
18:35:53  <coopserver> <Jam35> Is there anything you can do? :P
18:35:58  <coopserver> <Sylf> but you could take a plunge too and start building stuff as your guts allows
18:36:10  <coopserver> <BallC> INCOMING TRAIN to BBH01
18:36:18  <coopserver> <Sylf> bring it on!
18:36:45  <coopserver> <BallC> huzzah!
18:37:23  <coopserver> <Jam35> for a maiden voyage you'd think the train would be happy about it
18:37:39  <coopserver> <Sylf> :P
18:38:12  <coopserver> <Sylf> whoops, need the FPP funded
18:38:21  <coopserver> <Sylf> do us the honor, Jam
18:38:26  <coopserver> <Jam35> I remembered that
18:38:29  <coopserver> <Jam35> earlier
18:39:03  <coopserver> <Jam35> er....
18:39:57  <coopserver> <Jam35> didn't fit there :/
18:40:03  <coopserver> <Sylf> nope
18:40:17  <coopserver> <Djanxy> yeah, noticed that earlier
18:41:38  <coopserver> <BallC> Do we have a naming conv for trains?
18:42:16  <coopserver> <Sylf> oh those damn trains ignoring that one last platform
18:44:02  <coopserver> <Sylf> we haven't really named trains in the past
18:44:08  <coopserver> <Sylf> we just use groups...
18:44:18  <coopserver> <BallC> got it, i just opened the train list and saw the groups
18:44:48  <coopserver> <BallC> I was using a naming conv on the welcome server... makes it easy to see how many trains are going to a particular primary pickup
18:44:55  <coopserver> <BallC> but groups work too
18:45:12  <coopserver> <Sylf> for that, with primaries, we use the shared orders
18:45:23  <coopserver> <Sylf> after that, we can either see how many trains share the same order
18:45:30  <coopserver> <Sylf> or see how many trains use that primary station
18:46:25  <coopserver> <Sylf> or, since we can use sub groups, you can create one subgroup per primary station :P
18:47:13  <coopserver> <Jam35> that could be messy (imo)
18:47:16  <coopserver> <Jam35> many groups
18:47:30  <coopserver> <Jam35> but nice feature
18:48:04  <coopserver> <Jam35> if you have naming convention on primary stations too it makes more sense
18:48:17  <coopserver> <Jam35> otherwise it is a list of names
18:50:00  <coopserver> <o11c> that fruit plantation looks about to go out of business ... only 16 tons
18:51:10  <coopserver> <Jam35> I would take the other
18:51:20  <coopserver> <Jam35> but it blocks future expando
18:51:48  <coopserver> <Sylf> if someone built the refinery, we can service those oil wells near by :)
18:51:54  <coopserver> <Sylf> we're taking volunteers
18:52:00  <coopserver> <Jam35> subtle hint? :P
18:52:12  <coopserver> <Jam35> ok
18:52:16  <coopserver> <Jam35> I do it
18:52:28  <coopserver> <Sylf> how about new regulars?
18:52:37  <coopserver> <Sylf> you'd all be regulars, wont' you?
18:52:57  <coopserver> <o11c> dunno
18:53:32  <coopserver> <psde> I am still kinda confused by the silly trainset, tbh
18:53:44  <coopserver> <Djanxy> it's not silly
18:53:47  <coopserver> <Djanxy> it's NUTS
18:53:50  <coopserver> <Sylf> :P
18:54:05  <coopserver> <Sylf> about the only thing that matters is that the trains will be 4 tiles long
18:54:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> otherwise, it's building as usual
18:54:15  <coopserver> <Djanxy> and they melt brains
18:54:48  <coopserver> <Sylf> wewt, thet water well by the steel mill is gone
18:54:49  <coopserver> <o11c> is 9 stations a thing?
18:54:52  <coopserver> <Djanxy> yay
18:54:57  <coopserver> <Jam35> is now
18:55:26  <coopserver> <o11c> this is that technique where every other one is an in vs out ?
18:55:47  <coopserver> <Sylf> V's done that before
18:56:06  <coopserver> <Sylf> one of the FIRS game in about PSG 230-240 time frame?
18:56:45  <coopserver> <Jam35> 11
18:56:51  <coopserver> <Jam35> weirder
18:56:57  <coopserver> <Djanxy> good round number
18:57:12  <Sylf>
18:57:17  <Sylf> that game, the top corner station
18:57:31  <Sylf> has 2 drop station, 2 pickup station, 2 drop station, etc
19:00:18  <coopserver> <BallC> so LL_RR must be easy mode compared to some of the crazier games with 4-5 lines per direction on the ML
19:01:00  <coopserver> <Sylf> we rarely start with more than LLL_RRR
19:01:05  <coopserver> <Jam35> we are only starting LL_RR
19:01:10  <coopserver> <Sylf> more games start with just LL_RR
19:01:15  <coopserver> <Jam35> will be expanded at least to 3
19:01:23  <coopserver> <Jam35> I reckon
19:02:06  *** fleet5 has joined #openttdcoop
19:02:09  <fleet5> !password
19:02:09  <coopserver> fleet5: double
19:03:00  *** fleet5 has quit IRC
19:03:12  *** fleet75 has joined #openttdcoop
19:03:17  <fleet75> !password
19:03:17  <coopserver> fleet75: almost
19:03:24  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
19:03:27  <coopserver> *** fleet75 has joined
19:03:28  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
19:03:49  <coopserver> <fleet75> hi
19:04:00  <coopserver> <Djanxy> hey
19:04:37  <coopserver> *** psde has left the game (Leaving)
19:05:24  <coopserver> <o11c> what are the tunnels for?
19:05:48  <coopserver> <Jam35> more platforms
19:05:49  <coopserver> <Sylf> who what where?
19:05:58  <coopserver> <Sylf> oh there :)
19:06:00  <coopserver> <o11c> I'm watching REFINERY
19:06:17  <coopserver> <Sylf> more crazy design
19:06:23  <coopserver> <BallC> high capacity terminus design
19:06:32  <coopserver> <Sylf> I have like the uber boring design
19:07:15  <coopserver> <o11c> destroyed station ...
19:07:26  <coopserver> <o11c> why do you keep clearing land?
19:07:41  <coopserver> <Jam35> trees
19:07:50  <coopserver> <o11c> ah, stupid local authority
19:08:41  <coopserver> <Djanxy> what's up
19:08:47  <coopserver> <BallC> not much
19:08:54  <coopserver> <BallC> just going to start the BBH right north of there
19:09:00  <coopserver> <Djanxy> aha :)
19:09:19  <coopserver> <fleet75> the trees look so strange
19:09:31  <coopserver> <fleet75> like big fat organic sausages
19:09:52  *** Vinnie has joined #openttdcoop
19:09:54  <Vinnie> !password
19:09:55  <coopserver> Vinnie: almost
19:10:02  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
19:10:04  <coopserver> *** Vinnie has joined
19:10:05  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
19:10:07  <coopserver> <Vinnie> Hi
19:10:24  <coopserver> <fleet75> hi
19:11:08  <coopserver> *** fleet75 has left the game (Leaving)
19:11:24  <coopserver> <Jam35> hi
19:11:42  <coopserver> <Vinnie> this looks amazing
19:11:55  <coopserver> <Djanxy> so do you !
19:12:03  <coopserver> <Djanxy> or
19:12:06  <coopserver> <Djanxy> i guess
19:12:21  <coopserver> <Djanxy> i'm imagining you as a sparkling unicorn
19:12:22  <coopserver> <o11c> cl
19:12:37  <coopserver> <Vinnie> actually im more like a rainbow in springtime
19:12:44  <coopserver> <Djanxy> close call
19:12:48  <coopserver> <Vinnie> i know
19:13:23  <coopserver> <Vinnie> lot of new players :D
19:15:23  *** fleet75 has quit IRC
19:16:56  <coopserver> <o11c> you have enough space to merge all 3 before turning I think
19:17:04  <coopserver> *** Vinnie has joined company #1
19:20:55  <coopserver> <Sylf> hmm
19:21:07  <coopserver> <Sylf> no regard to future expandability whatsoever...
19:21:29  <coopserver> <Jam35> (mine I expect)
19:21:33  <coopserver> <Djanxy> or mine
19:21:34  <coopserver> <Sylf> mine
19:21:35  <coopserver> <BallC> lol mine
19:21:36  <coopserver> <Djanxy> oh lol
19:24:05  <coopserver> <BallC> @@(gap 4)
19:24:06  <Webster> coopserver: For Trainlength of 4: <= 10 needs 2, 11 - 16 needs 3, 17 - 22 needs 4.
19:27:31  <coopserver> <Djanxy> hmm, think I've made a mess
19:27:52  *** psde has left #openttdcoop
19:27:59  <coopserver> <Vinnie> looks nice
19:28:11  <coopserver> <Djanxy> be honest :)
19:28:20  <coopserver> <Sylf> I'm going all out TF :P  whatever you're doing should be better than mine
19:28:22  <coopserver> <Vinnie> compact
19:28:40  <coopserver> <Djanxy> yeah, tried going for compact with the long tunnels
19:28:50  <coopserver> <Vinnie> merger ontop of tunnels is nice combo
19:29:18  <coopserver> <Djanxy> mostly satisfied, although the northern prios annoys me
19:29:39  <coopserver> <Vinnie> too short?
19:29:42  <coopserver> <Djanxy> ye
19:30:21  <coopserver> <Vinnie> i can give you one tile
19:30:22  <coopserver> <Djanxy> and general execution really :)
19:30:29  <coopserver> <Djanxy> go ahead
19:30:52  <coopserver> <Djanxy> CL though ?
19:31:03  <coopserver> <Vinnie> not sure
19:31:53  <coopserver> <Djanxy> guess the bridge cam be moved a tile
19:32:04  <coopserver> <Vinnie> or lower tunnels 1 tile
19:32:16  <coopserver> <Djanxy> true
19:32:24  <coopserver> <Djanxy> i'll have a look in a bit
19:33:47  <coopserver> *** o11c has left the game (Leaving)
19:34:42  *** zxbiohazardzx has joined #openttdcoop
19:35:16  <zxbiohazardzx> !players
19:35:16  <coopserver> zxbiohazardzx: There are currently 5 players and 0 spectators, making a total of 5 clients connected
19:35:18  <zxbiohazardzx> !password
19:35:18  <coopserver> zxbiohazardzx: resets
19:36:08  *** Maraxus has joined #openttdcoop
19:36:08  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Maraxus
19:36:13  <coopserver> <Sylf> hopefully I won't need an overflow here
19:36:23  <coopserver> <BallC> famous last words
19:36:25  <coopserver> <BallC> :P
19:36:34  <coopserver> <Vinnie> easy
19:36:48  <coopserver> <Vinnie> make a line straight into the sea and call it overflow
19:36:56  <coopserver> <Sylf> ah yes
19:37:06  <coopserver> <Sylf> /dev/null
19:37:15  <Maraxus> !password
19:37:15  <coopserver> Maraxus: resets
19:37:24  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
19:37:27  <coopserver> *** Maraxus has joined
19:37:28  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
19:37:47  <coopserver> *** Maraxus has joined company #1
19:37:53  <coopserver> <Maraxus> hi
19:37:56  <coopserver> <Sylf> hi
19:37:59  <coopserver> <Vinnie> hi
19:40:07  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
19:40:09  <coopserver> *** ZxBiohazardZx has joined
19:40:10  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
19:40:12  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> sup everyone
19:40:17  <coopserver> <Vinnie> dutchie
19:40:28  *** Born_Acorn has quit IRC
19:40:36  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> true
19:49:27  <coopserver> <Jam35> hi bio
19:49:45  <coopserver> <Jam35> was preoccupied
19:51:59  <coopserver> <Jam35> refinery done
19:52:21  <coopserver> <Vinnie> Beer done
20:02:33  *** Born_Acorn has joined #openttdcoop
20:09:51  <coopserver> *** Djanxy has joined spectators
20:09:59  <coopserver> <Djanxy> off for a while
20:10:09  <coopserver> <BallC> take care
20:10:30  <coopserver> <Vinnie> bye
20:12:12  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> wait its TL4 ?
20:12:16  <coopserver> <Sylf> yup
20:12:25  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> my bad, i thought it would fit, thx
20:15:45  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> who did that bad junction towards the northwest of 04?
20:16:07  <coopserver> <BallC> lol thought you were talking about mine
20:16:14  <coopserver> <BallC> had to double check where 04 was
20:16:20  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> nah your actually building 03
20:16:26  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> not commenting that till its done :)
20:16:47  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> Sylf can i nuke the bad stuff
20:17:25  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> its all bad, all red stuff just makes no sense
20:17:34  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> can i just nuke and rebuild it?
20:17:39  <coopserver> <Sylf> no
20:17:47  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz k
20:17:48  <coopserver> <Sylf> we already did that with the last game
20:17:54  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> hehe
20:17:57  <coopserver> <Sylf> we do that, and whoever was building will never learn
20:18:12  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> true,but its not signed, so hard to tell who made it
20:18:20  <coopserver> <Sylf> I have an idea
20:18:39  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> k
20:19:06  <coopserver> <Sylf> I'd love to connect my town drop otherwise :)
20:19:14  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> hmhm
20:19:32  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> Steel Factory & Sawmill still to do?
20:19:37  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> cause then ill build there
20:19:44  <coopserver> <Sylf> oh
20:19:51  <coopserver> <Sylf> I thought someone was building one earlier
20:19:59  <coopserver> <Vinnie> i gave up
20:20:00  <coopserver> <Sylf> probably vinnie or someone
20:20:08  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> k
20:20:22  <coopserver> <Sylf> had some crazy symmetry going on for a while
20:20:24  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> BallC whats your plan on 03 (globally
20:20:30  <coopserver> <Vinnie> yeah
20:20:35  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> where will you make the big swap
20:20:40  <coopserver> <Vinnie> didnt fit in with a merger tough
20:21:58  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> good plan BallC :)
20:22:13  <coopserver> <BallC> then i just have 2 right turns
20:22:14  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> just continue construction, ill just watch if you dont mind :)
20:22:28  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> yeah turns are the pain usually
20:23:31  <coopserver> <Vinnie> merge Wto S is on splitting location of hub
20:23:51  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> i think he ment on the lower tracks but yeah
20:24:26  <coopserver> <BallC> you're right... let me think about that a second
20:24:52  <coopserver> <Sylf> almost 3:30PM...  lunch break
20:24:55  <coopserver> *** Sylf has joined spectators
20:24:57  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> use the red parts to your advantage
20:25:05  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> tunnels -> choices -> outputs
20:46:43  <coopserver> <Vinnie> sleepy time, cya
20:46:54  <coopserver> *** Vinnie has left the game (Leaving)
20:46:57  <coopserver> <Maraxus> cu
20:47:04  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> cya
20:47:05  <coopserver> <Jam35> bye
20:54:40  <coopserver> <BallC> smh
20:54:49  <coopserver> <BallC> working zoomed in and hooked up the wrong lines to my join
20:54:55  <coopserver> <BallC> hooked both directions of my mainline together
20:54:56  <coopserver> <BallC> lol
21:00:24  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> see suggestionairs
21:00:37  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> also you might have a hard time hooking the " other"  connection like this
21:00:54  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> use the colors to your advantage when building
21:01:17  <coopserver> <BallC> what do you mean?
21:01:21  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> color green for To West, Yellow for To East, Blue for To south, Red for From south
21:01:27  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> so see ! example to your left
21:02:25  <coopserver> <BallC> gotcha
21:02:31  <coopserver> <BallC> to help keep track of lines
21:02:33  <coopserver> <BallC> while building
21:03:11  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> well simplified but you get my point
21:03:18  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> use colors to determine directions
21:05:30  <coopserver> <BallC> oh duh
21:05:36  <coopserver> <BallC> you're calling west south
21:05:37  <coopserver> <BallC> lol
21:05:45  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> im calling colorcode
21:06:47  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> anyway you get hte point
21:06:52  <coopserver> <BallC> yup
21:06:54  <coopserver> <BallC> good idea
21:06:55  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> colorcode and find a way to get all connect in
21:07:04  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> biggest pain is the two lefts
21:07:06  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> rest if fine
21:12:04  <coopserver> <Sylf> :D  we have another crazy go at the steel factory
21:12:28  <coopserver> <Maraxus> indeed :)
21:14:17  <coopserver> *** Sylf has joined company #1
21:14:38  <coopserver> <Djanxy> i see a wild slug
21:14:44  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> lies
21:14:53  <coopserver> <Djanxy> the slug is a lie +
21:15:01  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> anyway i think the blue bend is useless and might create pathfind isue?
21:15:05  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> not sure
21:15:13  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> you can compact the design, but your getting there
21:15:30  <coopserver> <Jam35> Djanxy wins
21:15:45  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> you could make red chose and keep blue as was or just go half half (blue and red split, blue and red prio)
21:15:48  <coopserver> <Djanxy> what do I win ?
21:15:58  <coopserver> <Jam35> kudos
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21:16:08  <coopserver> <Djanxy> and what for ? :)
21:16:12  <coopserver> <Jam35> for good eyesight
21:16:28  <coopserver> <Djanxy> oh, the slug
21:17:07  <coopserver> <BallC> not sure i'm following what you're saying with the prio/choice/choice/prio signs
21:17:31  <coopserver> <BallC> so don't take the left blue all the way up, cut it in between the tunnels
21:19:20  <coopserver> *** Djanxy has joined company #1
21:20:29  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> that
21:20:53  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> see now?
21:21:57  <coopserver> <BallC> i think so
21:23:44  <coopserver> <BallC> its not balanced though
21:23:49  <coopserver> <BallC> or are you just omitting that in your example
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21:26:48  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> its balanced
21:26:59  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> 2+2 -> 2 balanced (inner merge)
21:27:07  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> they have either choice or prio
21:28:20  <coopserver> <BallC> I'm not seeing how Right Blue gets to L Out
21:28:33  <coopserver> <Djanxy> it doesn't
21:28:35  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> right blue has prio
21:28:37  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> it doesnt
21:28:45  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has left the game (Leaving)
21:28:46  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> left blue gets to L out and R out
21:28:54  <Jam35> bbb
21:28:55  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> right red goes to L out and R out
21:29:06  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> and L Red and R Blue just go to L and R
21:29:30  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> it helps to keep stuff compact
21:30:24  <coopserver> <BallC> ok, i thought balanced was all-to-all
21:30:29  <coopserver> <BallC> any lane in can take any lane out
21:30:59  <coopserver> <Djanxy> full choice on merges aren't needed, since there should always be full choice on splits
21:31:10  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> you need to make sure traffic is balanced
21:31:25  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> Left + half+half = 2
21:31:30  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> Right + half + half = 2
21:31:31  <coopserver> <BallC> ahhh ok
21:31:35  <coopserver> <BallC> balanced is the hub as a whole
21:31:39  <coopserver> <BallC> not just the merge
21:31:40  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> as long as the sum fits it doesnt matter
21:31:47  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> sum needs to be 2
21:31:56  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> either half+half+half+half+half
21:32:00  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> or full+half+half
21:32:05  <coopserver> <BallC> which is any-to-any
21:32:12  <coopserver> <BallC> or inner merge like you've shown
21:32:14  <coopserver> <BallC> ok that makes sense
21:32:25  <coopserver> <BallC> sorry, this is my first coop game so i'm still learning this stuff :)
21:32:34  <coopserver> <Djanxy> can do it in a variety of ways
21:32:47  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> its fine
21:32:55  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> we are here to explain andhelp
21:33:03  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> we didnt learn it in 5 seconds either
21:33:07  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> just take a look and learn :)
21:33:33  <coopserver> <Djanxy>  a lot of time can be spend staring at other people's work :D
21:33:40  <coopserver> <Djanxy> spent*
21:33:54  <coopserver> <Djanxy> i do my fair share at least
21:34:30  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> tunnels where good
21:34:40  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> the ones under farm
21:39:19  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> it fits 1 signal so its fine
21:42:17  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> CL=2?
21:42:21  <coopserver> <BallC> yup
21:42:25  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> then its good
21:43:40  <coopserver> <BallC> that's much better :)
21:43:41  <coopserver> <Djanxy> can be shortened if that farm dies :)
21:44:26  <coopserver> <Djanxy> unless some evil person is gonna keep it alive
21:44:36  <coopserver> <Djanxy> (that's vinnie)
21:44:38  <coopserver> <BallC> only 40 units of livestock
21:44:46  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> we dont care for the farm
21:44:53  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> tunnels allow choice so we /care for it
21:44:59  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> there is room for prios so
21:45:00  <coopserver> <Djanxy> :)
21:46:06  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> ok thats 1 side " done"
21:46:19  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> now just repeat that 2 more times and you have a BBH :)
21:46:31  <coopserver> <BallC> :)
21:46:34  <coopserver> <BallC> ok i'm going to give it a shot
21:48:09  <coopserver> <Sylf> I'm envious of the south town drop
21:48:49  <coopserver> <Djanxy> was bored :)
21:48:50  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> haha why?
21:49:13  <coopserver> <Sylf> it's getting traffic already, you know!
21:49:29  <coopserver> <Djanxy> hehe
21:49:55  <coopserver> <Djanxy> cant you just hack the connection to bbh 05 for now ? :D
21:50:03  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> he can
21:50:09  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> just connect it to 04 for now
21:50:58  <coopserver> <BallC> just put a bypass in until that junction gets built?
21:51:07  <coopserver> <Sylf> nah
21:51:30  <coopserver> <Sylf> bypass it now, and the steel factory will feel neglected next
21:53:33  <coopserver> <Djanxy> damn, now there's a watery slug as well
21:53:40  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> lies
21:54:15  <coopserver> <Djanxy> hmm, the canal cheat isn't that pretty on this landscape
21:54:42  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> true but i wanted to try it :P
21:54:49  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> better then land-bridge
21:54:50  <coopserver> <Djanxy> yaya :)
22:06:41  <coopserver> <Sylf> BallC et al, can I show you something there?
22:06:48  <coopserver> <BallC> sure
22:07:02  <coopserver> <Sylf> i hope it'll work
22:07:15  <coopserver> <Sylf> hm
22:08:06  <coopserver> <Sylf> ah, that should work
22:08:21  <coopserver> <Sylf> then we can avoid TFing that pond
22:08:26  <coopserver> <Sylf> or bridge all over it
22:09:35  <coopserver> <BallC> nice
22:12:23  <coopserver> <BallC> any problem leaving this BBH color coded?
22:12:54  <coopserver> <Sylf> not much
22:14:02  <coopserver> <BallC> ok, just think it's a lot easier looking at it and understanding it when it's color coded :)
22:14:16  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> sill 1 todo man
22:14:19  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> yellow to green
22:22:04  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> puzzle with help, enjoy
22:22:09  <coopserver> <BallC> lol
22:22:18  <coopserver> <BallC> thanks, i would have joined them and then split again
22:22:21  <coopserver> <BallC> :D
22:24:16  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> puzzle tip: dont bridge the prios
22:24:32  <coopserver> <BallC> oh yeah, b/c then i'd have to double them
22:28:28  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> tip on bottom
22:28:44  <coopserver> <Sylf> actually
22:28:49  <coopserver> <Sylf> we can use what we already have
22:29:00  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> yep
22:29:02  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> ofc
22:29:03  <coopserver> <Sylf> I'd connect like that
22:29:15  <coopserver> <BallC> ok so i keep getting confused about where i'm supposed to double bridge :P
22:29:32  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> just remember that you ALWAYS double bridge over something
22:29:37  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> unless you continue after a split
22:29:48  <coopserver> <BallC> ok, yeah, it's that second part
22:29:50  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> so A is double and B is single cause A has 1 per
22:30:20  <coopserver> <ZxBiohazardZx> so single after single is ok, but always double on first
22:30:34  <coopserver> <BallC> makes sense
22:31:03  <coopserver> <Sylf> basically we have that
22:31:22  <coopserver> <Sylf> but at the end, instead of merging back, we're connecting to 2 separate lines
22:31:42  <coopserver> <BallC> yup, understood
22:32:35  <coopserver> <Sylf> ok, I'll stop messing right there
22:34:13  <coopserver> <Maraxus> I'm off - gn
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22:34:22  <coopserver> <Sylf> if you're looking for a clean 3-way merge...
22:34:24  <coopserver> *** ZxBiohazardZx has left the game (Leaving)
22:34:27  <coopserver> <BallC> yeah
22:34:29  <coopserver> *** Maraxus has left the game (Leaving)
22:34:41  <coopserver> <Sylf> that's what you're looking for
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22:34:52  <coopserver> <BallC> ty
22:35:46  <coopserver> <Sylf> if you want another one there...
22:35:57  <coopserver> <Sylf> there's a trick we can use
22:36:18  <coopserver> <BallC> whats up
22:36:22  <coopserver> <BallC> err whats that
22:36:43  <coopserver> <Sylf> that
22:37:04  <coopserver> <BallC> you make it look easy :)
22:39:28  <coopserver> <Sylf> add prio, and you're almost done
22:39:36  <coopserver> <BallC> yup working on it now
22:40:38  <coopserver> <Sylf> that, sir, creates a signal gap
22:40:58  <coopserver> <Sylf> You can't repeat the combo signals
22:41:26  <coopserver> <BallC> ahh ok
22:41:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> or they'll all turn red and stay red until the trains exit the series of combo signals
22:41:58  <coopserver> <BallC> so you can only do 1 combo, 1 exit?
22:42:03  <coopserver> <Sylf> yup.
22:42:07  <coopserver> <BallC> otherwise, you gotta use the parallel track thingamajig
22:42:11  <coopserver> <Sylf> right
22:43:11  <coopserver> <Sylf> use the parallel track there
22:43:29  <coopserver> <Sylf> the smallest parallel track possible
22:43:55  <coopserver> <Sylf> then if you want, you can use that combo/exit signal combination again
22:44:10  <coopserver> <Sylf> if you want.
22:44:33  <coopserver> <BallC> i'm not sure how to figure out how long a priorty to make though
22:44:45  <coopserver> <Sylf> that only comes with experience
22:45:02  <coopserver> <Sylf> the easiest thing to do is see what other people are doing on each map
22:45:10  <coopserver> <Sylf> and copy their prio size
22:45:12  <coopserver> <BallC> but for TL4 with these trains, you're doing like 8 tiles?
22:45:41  <coopserver> <Sylf> these trains can accelerate okay most of the time, so they don't need to be so long
22:45:46  <coopserver> <Sylf> especially in BBHs
22:46:07  <coopserver> <Sylf> SLH prio can be longer than BBH prios
22:46:18  <coopserver> <Djanxy> speaking of prios
22:46:24  <coopserver> <Djanxy> BBH 02 doesn't have any ?
22:46:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> in BBH/MSH, all traffic going through are main line traffic
22:46:48  <coopserver> <Sylf> right, I omitted prio there
22:46:56  <coopserver> <Sylf> and created full all-to-all connections
22:47:11  <coopserver> <Djanxy> mm, excited to see how it does at load
22:47:26  <coopserver> <Sylf> yeah
22:47:44  <coopserver> <Sylf> my goal there was to create an all-to-all hub with an industry in the middle
22:47:56  <coopserver> <Djanxy> :)
22:48:19  <coopserver> <Sylf> the industry's dead already, but it's ok!
22:49:23  <coopserver> <Sylf> Mare Asopus is your SLH?
22:49:35  <coopserver> <Djanxy> oh ye, no sign
22:50:02  <coopserver> <Sylf> ah, time to have some fun
22:50:14  <coopserver> <Djanxy> knock yourself out
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22:52:24  <coopserver> <Djanxy> doh
22:52:33  <coopserver> <Djanxy> the station im making doesnt have the drop yet
22:52:53  <coopserver> <Sylf> oh, rubber
22:52:55  <coopserver> <Sylf> right
22:53:10  <coopserver> <Djanxy> guess i can cheat
22:53:14  <coopserver> <Djanxy> til it's done
22:53:22  <coopserver> <Sylf> that rubber factory area is getting popular with primaries
22:53:47  <coopserver> <Sylf> how to complete this crazy stuff..
22:53:50  <coopserver> <Djanxy> yup, noticed they tend to be there, and not so much where SLs are fitting :)
22:56:33  <coopserver> <Sylf> that crap is totally unneeded but
22:56:40  <coopserver> <Sylf> totally needed for added fun
22:56:56  <coopserver> <Djanxy> :P
22:57:01  <coopserver> <Djanxy> ofc
22:57:10  <coopserver> <Sylf> we need to fund the steel mill
23:03:48  <coopserver> <Sylf> going for those oil rigs?
23:04:29  <coopserver> <Djanxy> was thinking copper, but that too
23:04:48  <coopserver> <Sylf> for the oil, I was thinking of another SLH
23:04:53  <coopserver> <Djanxy> np
23:05:23  <coopserver> <Sylf> for copper, we probably don't need double bridges
23:05:45  <coopserver> <Sylf> you should make one set of bridges the return path
23:05:46  <coopserver> <Djanxy> nah
23:06:12  <coopserver> <Djanxy> actually, that was my plan at first - but i guess i just doubled them as force of habit :)
23:14:03  <coopserver> <Djanxy> soo
23:14:06  <coopserver> <Djanxy> the question is
23:14:11  <coopserver> <Djanxy> when is "tomorrow"
23:14:46  <coopserver> <Sylf> tomorrow doesn't expire for another few hours
23:14:54  <coopserver> <Sylf> since that construction started
23:14:58  <coopserver> <Djanxy> oki ;)
23:15:14  <coopserver> <Djanxy> pesky muricans
23:15:19  <coopserver> <BallC> hey now
23:15:23  <coopserver> <Djanxy> :DD
23:15:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> I'm safe there
23:15:37  <coopserver> <Djanxy> canada?
23:15:41  <coopserver> <Sylf> non
23:15:57  <coopserver> <Sylf> I only live in murica :P
23:16:03  <coopserver> <Djanxy> ;)
23:16:18  <coopserver> <Sylf> I grew up with shinkansen
23:16:54  <coopserver> <Djanxy> oh, Japan
23:17:05  <coopserver> <Sylf> jup
23:27:45  <coopserver> <Djanxy> hmm, is it time for 4 way SLH
23:28:09  <coopserver> <Sylf> I'll steer clear out of it
23:28:16  <coopserver> <Djanxy> heh
23:28:21  <coopserver> <Djanxy> perhaps i should as well
23:28:46  <coopserver> <Djanxy> seems fitting between BBH 03 and MSH 02
23:29:46  <coopserver> <Djanxy> what are you up to now BallC ?
23:37:26  <coopserver> <BallC> dinner :)
23:37:37  <coopserver> <Djanxy> not too shabby :)
23:37:41  <coopserver> <BallC> but back now
23:37:46  <coopserver> <BallC> just looking around a.t.m.
23:37:47  <coopserver> <Djanxy> i need dinner
23:37:51  <coopserver> <Djanxy> but it's soon 2 am
23:38:52  <coopserver> <Sylf> hm
23:38:54  <coopserver> <Sylf> too ugly
23:39:01  <coopserver> <BallC> I'm going to go read up on it but is this part of BBH01 an evil x?
23:39:33  <coopserver> <Sylf> it's not evil
23:39:41  <coopserver> <Djanxy> its cuddly
23:39:50  <coopserver> <BallC> lol
23:39:51  <coopserver> <Djanxy> how can you think that
23:40:15  <coopserver> <BallC> ok, i found it on the wiki, i remember the phrase, didn't remember the content
23:41:26  <coopserver> <Djanxy> i find it to be more of an issue when it's used to merge to lines, and the exit lanes goes to same destination
23:41:33  <coopserver> <Djanxy> to=two*
23:42:20  <coopserver> <Djanxy> then you can get the situation where they will cross all the time
23:42:23  <coopserver> <BallC> yeah, just popped out at me b/c i don't see that used in anyone else's hubs
23:42:29  <coopserver> <Djanxy> and stop each other
23:42:50  <coopserver> <Djanxy> there's soo many ways to do things
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23:43:31  <coopserver> <Djanxy> it likely works just fine, and if it doesn't it will be modified
23:43:41  <coopserver> <Sylf> actually, you don't want PBS there
23:44:29  <coopserver> <Sylf> the alternative is
23:44:41  <coopserver> <Sylf> is that
23:44:54  <coopserver> <BallC> :)
23:44:56  <coopserver> <BallC> very nice
23:45:00  <coopserver> <Sylf> that or the earlier version don't make any difference
23:45:21  <coopserver> <Sylf> so I left with the version that splits sooner
23:45:23  <coopserver> <Djanxy> earlier version had room for a train infront of the entry signal
23:45:47  <coopserver> <BallC> Q for you... when double-bridging, use presignals or just regular block?
23:45:57  <coopserver> <Sylf> depends
23:45:59  <coopserver> <BallC> assuming you have the extra straight tile in front
23:46:22  <coopserver> <Djanxy> i tend to use block
23:46:26  <coopserver> <Sylf> go search the blog for "evil mode"
23:46:31  <coopserver> <Djanxy> yeah
23:47:00  <coopserver> <Djanxy> presignals can potentially cause that
23:47:07  <coopserver> <BallC> oooo
23:47:15  <coopserver> <BallC> I was looking at evil X
23:47:51  <coopserver> <Sylf> evil x and evil mode are 2 separate things
23:48:23  <coopserver> <Sylf> evil x is an X cross that creates a signal gap
23:48:48  <coopserver> <Sylf> evil mode is a double bridge/tunnel that leads to perpetual slow-down in ML traffic
23:52:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> any good idea for prio @ SLH 06 merge north?
23:53:36  <coopserver> <Djanxy> not really :)
23:56:56  <coopserver> <Sylf> 1 more
23:57:15  <coopserver> <Sylf> although it'll probably will never get used

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