Log for #openttdcoop on 17th September 2014:
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00:00:02  *** KWKdesign has joined #openttdcoop
00:00:26  <coopserver> *** scshunt has joined spectators
00:00:27  <coopserver> *** Game paused (number of players)
00:00:45  <o11c> huh?
00:00:47  <Sylf> !rcon set min_active_clients
00:00:48  <coopserver> Current value for 'min_active_clients' is: '2' (min: 0, max: 255)
00:00:51  <Sylf> !rcon set min_active_clients 1
00:00:52  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
00:00:55  <scshunt> oh, sorry :)
00:20:33  <coopserver> <Sylf> do we need farms for pax games?
00:20:42  <coopserver> <Sylf> hm
00:20:46  <coopserver> <o11c> for city growth, need food, right?
00:20:51  <coopserver> <Sylf> I guess some towns go under snow in winter
00:21:12  <coopserver> <o11c> I haven't checked elevatation of my given towns yet
00:22:56  <coopserver> <o11c> they all say "food required in winter"
00:23:21  <coopserver> <o11c> and "not growing" right now
00:23:28  <coopserver> <Sylf> h
00:23:42  <coopserver> <Sylf> they're not growing because they haven't received any transport service yet
00:23:48  <coopserver> <o11c> oh
00:27:28  <coopserver> <o11c> wait, why is it snowing in april?
00:27:39  <coopserver> <Sylf> because we live in chille apparently
00:28:02  <coopserver> <Sylf> This is the Andes Greenland
00:28:07  <scshunt> o11c: clearly you've never been to Canada
00:28:14  <scshunt> no month is sacred
00:28:16  <scshunt> not even August
00:29:29  <coopserver> <o11c> now, one thing I'm *not* experienced enough to choose is TL/CL
00:30:26  <coopserver> <Sylf> hmmm
00:30:33  <coopserver> <Sylf> only 6 primary cargo types...
00:30:44  <coopserver> <Sylf> without pax and mail...
00:30:52  <scshunt> yeah it's weird
00:31:04  <coopserver> <Sylf> I thought of something
00:31:12  <coopserver> <Sylf> refit SRNW
00:31:17  <coopserver> <Sylf> 1 cargo type per island
00:31:25  <coopserver> <Sylf> overflow goes to next island and refits
00:31:31  <scshunt> hmm, interesting
00:31:35  <scshunt> never done an SRNW
00:32:26  <coopserver> <Sylf> we'll need some TF on forest island
00:35:20  <coopserver> <o11c> I must admit I'm more fearful of SRNW
00:35:48  <coopserver> *** o11c has joined spectators
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00:36:04  <coopserver> <Sylf> so much for drawing blank
00:39:08  <coopserver> <o11c> ah, you're saying do pax within an island too?
00:39:27  <coopserver> <o11c> top left island is a weak one to start pax
00:39:44  <coopserver> <Sylf> it has most number of towns
00:39:55  <coopserver> <o11c> ah, small but many
00:41:08  <coopserver> <o11c> actually no
00:41:50  <coopserver> <o11c> the island with Greater Amma and Lesser Qaq has more and bigger towns
00:42:41  <coopserver> <o11c> 9 instead of 7
00:42:58  <coopserver> <o11c> the one marked oil right now
00:43:04  <coopserver> <Sylf> meh.
00:43:07  <coopserver> <Sylf> this will work.
00:43:15  <coopserver> <o11c> but I guess passengers do grow easily
00:43:19  <coopserver> <Sylf> esp when we start founding our own towns
00:43:23  <coopserver> <o11c> primaries not so much
00:46:46  <coopserver> <o11c> in Sylf's plan there probably won't be much traffic between islands ...
00:46:58  <coopserver> <Sylf> if it goes well
00:47:04  <coopserver> <o11c> each island can increase number of tracks as it wants
00:47:10  <coopserver> <Sylf> yes
00:48:42  <o11c> is it just the three of us?
00:49:09  <coopserver> <Sylf> we'll see
00:49:27  <scshunt> wait for the European crowd
00:49:42  <scshunt> they're all asleep atm
00:49:43  <coopserver> <o11c> it's midnight in Europe right now ...
00:53:00  <coopserver> <o11c> so exactly what do the per-island networks look like in the Sylf's SRNW plan?
00:53:22  <coopserver> <Sylf> that's the Full/Empty check island
00:53:34  <coopserver> <o11c> there's no loop?
00:53:45  <coopserver> <Sylf> loops from orange to white
00:54:48  <coopserver> <o11c> I'm still lost
00:59:25  <coopserver> <o11c> Sylf: so for the RV food network, does that mean from the FPP fed on wheat island?
00:59:33  <coopserver> <Sylf> no
00:59:36  <coopserver> <Sylf> we can
00:59:42  <coopserver> <Sylf> actually
00:59:43  <coopserver> <o11c> separate FPP on each island then?
00:59:46  <coopserver> <Sylf> we'll see
01:00:03  <coopserver> <Sylf> we can feed wheat food to pax island
01:00:05  <coopserver> <o11c> are we going to do anythin with paper/goods then?
01:00:09  <coopserver> <Sylf> and livestock food to mail island
01:00:13  <coopserver> <Sylf> no
01:00:21  <coopserver> <Sylf> we don't touch secondaries otherwise
01:00:54  <coopserver> <Sylf> so, in the example, you have the white line, which is the main line for empty trains
01:01:12  <coopserver> <Sylf> green line is the side line - the heart of SRNW
01:01:21  <coopserver> <Sylf> and yellow line is the ML for full trains.
01:01:31  <coopserver> <o11c> whoa, didn't notice *that* island before
01:01:36  <coopserver> <Sylf> full trains goes to drop, and loops back to white line
01:02:04  <coopserver> <o11c> this makes more sense now
01:02:42  <coopserver> <Sylf> I'm trying to decide on trains now
01:02:51  <coopserver> *** o11c has joined company #1
01:03:23  <coopserver> <Sylf> I was gonna delete that example :D
01:03:30  <coopserver> <o11c> oh
01:03:41  <coopserver> <Sylf> but I'll leave it for now
01:05:22  <coopserver> <o11c> what will make the trains enter the station?
01:05:42  <coopserver> <o11c> ah
01:06:02  <coopserver> <Sylf> enough path finder resistance
01:07:16  <coopserver> <o11c> what exactly does 'check' do?
01:07:29  <coopserver> <Sylf> see the order for those trains
01:07:39  <coopserver> <Sylf> it's checking if the train's full or not
01:07:52  <coopserver> <Sylf> and branches to deffirent part of the order
01:08:30  <coopserver> <o11c> so, there are two connections between islands
01:08:36  <coopserver> <o11c> are they unidirectional or bidirectional?
01:09:06  <coopserver> <Sylf> unidirection
01:09:17  <coopserver> <o11c> was kind of thinking that would simplify things
01:09:26  <coopserver> <Sylf> trains come in from one side of island, goes out the other side
01:09:51  <coopserver> <Sylf> the incoming traffic marges with traffic from the drop station
01:13:32  <coopserver> <o11c> so the actual out arrow needs to be after the depot, right?
01:13:49  <coopserver> <Sylf> depot can be on either side of the bridges
01:14:03  <coopserver> <o11c> well, I guess it just goes around once more
01:14:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> refit station is actually inside the arrows
01:15:02  <coopserver> <o11c> that seems odd to me, don't you only need to refit on the journey *between* islands?
01:15:12  <coopserver> <Sylf> yes
01:15:27  <coopserver> <o11c> ah wait
01:15:28  <coopserver> <Sylf> the arrows will contain bridges between islands
01:15:39  <coopserver> <o11c> the red/blue parts are on different islands!
01:15:55  <coopserver> <Sylf> red is same thing as the arrows
01:16:00  <coopserver> <o11c> okay now I get it
01:16:32  <coopserver> <Sylf> arrows actually are confusing
01:16:48  <coopserver> <Sylf> so this should explain everything
01:17:00  <coopserver> <o11c> so just  repeat these 7 orders for all the islands
01:17:07  <coopserver> <Sylf> yes
01:17:11  <coopserver> <Sylf> meh
01:17:16  <coopserver> <Sylf> we'll have 56 orders
01:17:32  <coopserver> <Sylf> such a chore to set it up
01:18:16  <coopserver> <o11c> so even for pax/mail, one city will be drop-only, the rest pickup-only ?
01:18:35  <coopserver> <Sylf> on 1 island, you can use company HQ for the drop
01:19:03  <coopserver> <Sylf> or just station walk to some nearby town just for cargo acceptance
01:20:14  <coopserver> <o11c> hm, do we actually need order 7 ?
01:21:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> no
01:21:20  <coopserver> <Sylf> so 6 orders per island
01:22:21  <scshunt> does it need orders at all?
01:22:26  <coopserver> <o11c> for that matter, why does 5 need to be separate from 6 ? you can give an order to a specific depot
01:22:27  <scshunt> isn't the point of an SRNW to avoid orders?
01:22:33  <coopserver> <o11c> scshunt:  yes, because refit needs orders
01:22:56  <coopserver> <o11c> there are no orders for *pickup* though
01:23:04  <coopserver> <Sylf> with SRNW, all ML trains have identical orders
01:23:23  <scshunt> ah ok
01:24:01  <coopserver> <Sylf> so when you build a new sideline stations, you don't add any ML trains
01:24:10  <coopserver> <Sylf> it automatically gets serviced
01:24:25  <coopserver> <Sylf> You only manage the overall volume of trains needed for the whole network
01:25:56  <coopserver> <Sylf> You can check PSG 199 for this kind of "overflow feeding the next SRNW loop" design
01:26:11  <coopserver> <Sylf> PSG 199 had no refit.
01:26:18  <coopserver> <Sylf> Trains had no orders in that one.
01:26:33  <coopserver> <Sylf> We had to use logic trains to make the SRNW work
01:26:44  <coopserver> <Sylf> This SRNW will be simpler in that regard
01:27:36  <coopserver> <Sylf> hmmm
01:27:40  <coopserver> <Sylf> chameleon or rails....
01:27:53  <coopserver> <o11c> I think only those 5 orders are needed
01:28:12  <coopserver> <Sylf> You don't see the point in the refit waypoint?
01:28:19  <coopserver> <o11c> no, I don't
01:28:27  <coopserver> <o11c> since the actual refit order is on the depot
01:28:35  <coopserver> <Sylf> a waypoints are always needed in front of refit depot
01:28:44  <coopserver> <o11c> why?
01:29:02  <coopserver> <o11c> ah wait! is it because multiline?
01:29:10  <coopserver> <Sylf> otherwise all trains start heading for the same depot, even if we have multiple depots for the purpose
01:29:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> yes
01:29:41  <coopserver> <Sylf> It's a balancer for multiple depots
01:30:31  <coopserver> <Sylf> already ate through 7% of the cash reserve...
01:31:56  <coopserver> <o11c> wait
01:32:08  <coopserver> <o11c> ah nvm
01:32:26  <coopserver> <o11c> removing the straight piece can force into the depot, but still need the order
01:35:42  <coopserver> <o11c> hm, I really feel we should be able to get rid of the unconditional jump order
01:36:15  <coopserver> <Sylf> you can't get away with that jump esp when we have multiple islands
01:37:32  <coopserver> <o11c> I think by rearranging the orders we can make the conditional jump to stay instead of to leave
01:37:32  <coopserver> <o11c> but afk
01:37:32  <coopserver> <Sylf> it would be true if we only had 1 island
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01:37:32  <coopserver> <o11c> no, I'm pretty sure I can make it work anyway
01:37:35  <coopserver> <o11c> just need to think backwards
01:37:45  <coopserver> <o11c> I'll try later
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01:39:12  <scshunt> if cash is actually a problem we can moneymaker more
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01:41:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> pausing the game at least stops the trains draining the money
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02:12:01  <coopserver> <o11c> yeah, this works
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02:14:50  <coopserver> <o11c> and having it a multiple of 5 is saner
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11:46:19  <zxbiohazardzx> !info
11:46:19  <coopserver> zxbiohazardzx: #openttdcoop - Public Server (, Version: r26830, date: Feb 18 2109, map size: 256x512, address:
11:46:23  <zxbiohazardzx> !players
11:46:23  <coopserver> zxbiohazardzx: The server is empty, noone is connected. Feel free to remedy this situation
11:46:37  <zxbiohazardzx> !dl win64
11:46:37  <coopserver> zxbiohazardzx:
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13:01:56  <Djanxy> !password
13:01:56  <coopserver> Djanxy: assign
13:02:16  <Djanxy> !dl win64
13:02:16  <coopserver> Djanxy:
13:02:40  <V453000> yo
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15:59:34  <Maraxus> !password
15:59:34  <coopserver> Maraxus: refits
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17:05:04  <Jam35> !password
17:05:04  <coopserver> Jam35: balogh
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17:05:30  <o11c> !password
17:05:30  <coopserver> o11c: balogh
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17:06:49  <scshunt> I can join if needed
17:14:19  <o11c> just spectating
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17:23:55  <coopserver> <o11c> /me doesn't feel the need to vote for himself
17:25:04  <scshunt> !password
17:25:04  <coopserver> scshunt: indeed
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17:58:30  <coopserver> <scshunt> !compass
17:58:50  <scshunt> Jam35: is that you up in the top corner?
17:59:02  <coopserver> <Jam35> yep
17:59:13  <scshunt> please tell me it's a transfer network :P
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18:08:18  <coopserver> <Jam35> hmm
18:08:20  <coopserver> <Jam35> brb
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18:12:09  <coopserver> <scshunt> are you planning to connect the islands or is that just an artifact?
18:13:00  <coopserver> <Jam35> they are connected, what do you mean?
18:13:23  <coopserver> <scshunt> I mean with actual land.
18:13:40  <coopserver> <scshunt> oh wait, you're doing something fancier, ok
18:30:55  <V453000> !password
18:30:55  <coopserver> V453000: insert
18:31:00  <V453000> !dl win64
18:31:01  <coopserver> V453000:
18:31:46  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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18:31:50  <coopserver> <V453000> yeti smash
18:32:01  <coopserver> <Jam35> in the nuts
18:39:00  <coopserver> <V453000> does snow spawn more yetis?
18:40:11  <coopserver> <scshunt> it should
18:41:50  <coopserver> <Jam35> What WET for goods/food?
18:41:56  <coopserver> <Jam35> LG/SM
18:44:08  <scshunt> I don't understand these acronyms
18:44:35  <coopserver> <Jam35> what WETrails train Large or Small :)
18:44:52  <coopserver> <Jam35> I like small more
18:45:09  <scshunt> oh
18:45:11  <scshunt> I dunno
18:45:22  <coopserver> <Jam35> but that is merely personal preference, not what is best
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20:15:49  <Sylf> !password
20:15:49  <coopserver> Sylf: extent
20:16:18  <Sylf> !dl
20:16:18  <coopserver> Sylf: !download lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
20:16:19  <coopserver> Sylf:
20:16:50  <V453000> hi Sylf :)
20:16:55  <V453000> I got 2 news :D
20:17:23  <V453000> first,
20:17:25  <V453000> second,
20:17:28  <V453000> animation works :)
20:17:35  <V453000> not that there isnt a lot to do still :)
20:17:47  <V453000> but it is more oriented on GS-ish coding of the mechanics instead of finding my bugs :)
20:18:01  <scshunt> whoa
20:18:10  <scshunt> that looks sweet
20:18:26  <V453000> it looks the same as it did before :P which was the aim
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20:18:33  <V453000> now it just has 50% less newgrf size in total
20:18:50  <V453000> which is huge progress, other industries will reduce even more because less is animted
20:19:11  <scshunt> V453000: I hadn't actually seen it though :)
20:19:17  <V453000> oh :D
20:19:21  <Sylf> oh yay
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20:26:16  <coopserver> <Sylf> Jam35 around?
20:26:22  <coopserver> <Sylf> Is  it your plan at the top of the map?
20:27:10  <Jam35> yes it is
20:27:32  <Jam35> not sure I like it / want to finish
20:27:59  <Jam35> can it stay til tomorrow?
20:28:08  <coopserver> <Sylf> yup
20:28:27  <coopserver> <Sylf> If its close to complete plan, I was gonna stick it to the voting booth too
20:28:47  <coopserver> <Sylf> it looks good
20:29:04  <Jam35> it won't change much as a shape
20:29:14  <coopserver> <Sylf> kk
20:29:26  <coopserver> <Sylf> I guess you need all the extra text :)
20:29:44  <Jam35> well exactly trains, network details
20:29:57  <Jam35> idk yet
20:29:57  <coopserver> <Sylf> which ducks/turtles etc, eh
20:30:07  * o11c didn't add train/cl details to his plan either
20:30:17  <Jam35> well that and if I want to build hubs on water etc :P
20:30:35  <coopserver> <Sylf> for a pax game, the choices are fewer
20:30:49  <coopserver> <Sylf> You only define the intercity trains
20:31:13  <coopserver> <Sylf> So, your choices are rail, monorail or maglev intercity, or one of the funcky trains
20:32:00  <V453000>  /monorail intercity is majorly OP :P
20:32:47  <coopserver> *** scshunt has joined company #1
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20:35:21  <Sylf> @stage Planning/Voting
20:35:21  *** Webster changes topic to "Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG287 (r26830) | STAGE: Planning/Voting | New players, use @quickstart and !help | | TS3:"
20:36:57  <scshunt> not much of either going on atm
20:38:00  <Jam35> Let Maraxus cast the deciding vote then :P
20:40:16  <o11c> I didn't vote for my own plan, so ...
20:40:46  <scshunt> I imagine we'll need to wait another day or two
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21:47:00  <Maraxus> !password
21:47:00  <coopserver> Maraxus: inject
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21:48:27  <scshunt> Maraxus: I can join if you need
21:50:03  <Maraxus> no need - just in for a quick look at the plans
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