Log for #openttdcoop on 12th October 2014:
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03:34:00  <Sylf> !vehicles
03:34:00  <coopserver> Sylf: Total vehicles per type: Rail: 1426, Road: 0, Water: 0, Air: 0
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14:25:30  <Kernigh> !password
14:25:30  <coopserver> Kernigh: tracks
14:25:43  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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14:50:29  <coopserver> <Kernigh> It is rare, but a train can leave Dranpool Woods with less than a full load.
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15:20:23  <damalix> !svn
15:20:59  <damalix> !help
15:20:59  <coopserver> damalix:
15:22:11  <damalix> @quickstart
15:22:12  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki -
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15:22:36  <damalix> !revision
15:22:36  <coopserver> damalix: Game version is r26920. Use Download <os-version> to get a direct download link.
15:22:52  <damalix> !revision svn
15:27:39  <damalix> hello
15:27:47  <damalix> !playercount
15:27:47  <coopserver> damalix: The server is empty, noone is connected. Feel free to remedy this situation
15:28:13  <Hazzard> hi
15:40:49  <damalix> 'lo hazzard
15:40:52  <damalix> !grf
15:40:52  <coopserver> damalix:
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16:38:04  <damalix> !ip
16:38:04  <coopserver> damalix:
16:41:24  <damalix> !info
16:41:24  <coopserver> damalix: #openttdcoop - Public Server (, Version: r26920, date: Mar 12 2448, map size: 512x512, address:
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18:14:45  <luaduck> What's the best way to fork mercurial stuff for later merging
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18:40:56  <JohnK> password
18:41:10  <JohnK> !passwor
18:41:14  <JohnK> !password
18:41:14  <coopserver> JohnK: direct
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18:58:34  <JohnK> So... What's up with this game? Optimize? Or are we going to get a new one?
19:13:10  <o11c> people have suggested new game a couple times already
19:13:24  <o11c> for me, I found I wasn't nearly as interested in SRNW as I expected
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19:32:55  <fleet75> !password
19:32:55  <coopserver> fleet75: replay
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20:49:57  <JohnK> srnw is kind of fun.. it looks like there's not much to do besides funding and connecting new industries though
20:50:31  <hylje> clockwork
20:50:39  <JohnK> eh?
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20:53:16  <damalix> !password
20:53:16  <coopserver> damalix: closed
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20:58:37  <damalix> !players
20:58:37  <coopserver> damalix: There are currently 2 players and 0 spectators, making a total of 2 clients connected
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21:11:53  <JohnK> how useful would it be, to make the refit-stations self-regulating?
21:14:00  <JohnK> I mean the refitting depots... let's say a depot will release 1 train per month if less than 3 trains have refitted in that depot?
21:15:20  <Sylf> It'll just be a novelty item
21:16:51  <Sylf> overflow/refit should be the most neglected part of this game
21:16:57  <Sylf> this map*
21:18:41  <JohnK> I'm just thinking what to do apart from adding more trains/solving more jams
21:20:41  <Sylf> make the next map, make the next game plan...
21:23:17  <JohnK> hm, do you guys ever play with cargodist?
21:23:27  <Sylf> one game.
21:23:39  <JohnK> was it crap?
21:23:42  <Sylf> yes
21:23:52  <JohnK> pax?
21:24:13  <Sylf> yes
21:24:14  <o11c> I've been wanting to see a pax game for a while
21:24:25  <JohnK> why was it crap?
21:24:39  <Sylf> @PSG262
21:24:46  <JohnK> @wiki
21:24:47  <Webster> Search - #openttdcoop Wiki - <text>) -- Returns the URL quoted form of the text.
21:24:55  <Sylf>
21:25:38  <Sylf> we only played a pax game 4 maps ago, so I'm not in a mood for a pax game for a while yet
21:26:33  <Sylf> I guess we tried 2 cargodist games
21:29:55  <JohnK> I'm thinking cargodist starting in 1920 w/NUTS and YETI might be fun?
21:31:14  <JohnK> cargodist for pax/mail only, normal mode for yeti's?
21:32:07  <Sylf> That won't be an easy game
21:32:27  <Sylf> I haven't really played much with cargo dist, so I don't know how to make a nice network with it.
21:32:38  <Sylf> So it takes a lot of attention to just make it work.
21:32:55  <JohnK> not saying it would be easy
21:32:58  <Sylf> If you do both cargodist pax and YETI, you have pretty much 2 games going on at once
21:33:11  <Sylf> and you'll be building on top of each other
21:33:27  <JohnK> (and I've never played with YETI...)
21:33:30  <Sylf> unless you use set of trains that complement each other, running on same tracks
21:33:39  <Sylf> that's also an added challenge
21:33:54  <Sylf> challenge isn't a bad thing
21:33:57  <JohnK> ok, what if we scrap the yeti?
21:34:26  <Sylf> if you want to play cargodist pax, just do that.
21:34:30  <Sylf> don't even mix mail.
21:35:08  <Sylf> or if you do both pax and mail, then separate them.  Don't use same trains to haul both.
21:35:14  <JohnK> well I've played cd-pax in singleplayer emulalating rl net
21:35:22  <JohnK> lot's of trouble tbh
21:38:18  <JohnK> (I did play patched with that improved timetables patch, though)
21:38:19  <Sylf> cargo dist really doesn't simulate the real passengers - they only decide on their next hop when they reach a station.  the final destination you see in the station info isn't set in stone
21:38:30  <Sylf> so it's hard to manage the traffic volume
21:39:17  <Sylf> you start seeing empty trains running everywhere while you have stations with hundreds of thousands of passengers waiting
21:39:33  <JohnK> oh
21:39:40  <Sylf> that was PSG 261
21:39:49  <JohnK> well that's kind of counterintuitive
21:40:03  <JohnK> really what's the point of cargodist then?
21:40:34  <JohnK> one would think a station generates pax with preset dest
21:40:42  <Sylf> many people mistake it as cargo destination.
21:40:47  <Sylf> But it's cargo distribution.
21:40:50  <Sylf> Not the same thing.
21:41:00  <Sylf> And some people think it adds a good challenge.
21:42:19  <Sylf> back when we played the cargodist game, the lead author of the patch said the best cargo dist network design is a grid
21:42:42  <Sylf> that isn't fun at all when we want a ML/SL style game
21:42:57  <Sylf> or at least some fun SBahn system
21:43:49  <JohnK> SBahn is cool... really needs cargoDEST though
21:44:17  <JohnK> hard to make work I guess
21:45:30  <Sylf> there was this pax game
21:45:30  <Sylf>
21:46:07  <Sylf> SBahn feeds the ML, but it also take pax from main station back to local stations
21:46:23  <Sylf> that was before cargodist
21:48:29  <JohnK> how did you distribute pax between local stations?
21:48:48  <Sylf> just load what's available
21:49:03  <Sylf> each main station has 2 parts
21:49:20  <Sylf> ML->Sbahn transfer station and SBahn->ML transfer station
21:50:34  <JohnK> Cargodist in town boundaries +/- several neighbours; and classic distribution at long lines might be useful
21:51:19  <JohnK> there's no way to make that work now, is there?
21:51:27  <Sylf> we can't control distribution that way using openttd's cargodist
21:51:47  <Sylf> you'll  have to come up with your own network plan to make it happen
21:52:11  <Sylf> but at that point, we might as well play a classic pax game
21:52:43  <Sylf> and there's really nothing wrong with a classic pax game
21:53:50  <JohnK> do you ever play a game starting 19xx now?
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21:54:26  <Sylf> It's even possible to load something like 2cc or dutch train set, where you get obscene amount of EMUs, use some rail set to control the top speed to something like 225km/h, and use many kind of express EMUs on the ML
21:54:52  <Sylf> we can
21:55:09  <coopserver> *** John has left the game (Leaving)
21:55:30  <Sylf> !date
21:55:30  <coopserver> Apr 07 2450
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21:56:09  <JohnK> I kind of want to play a rl-sim game
21:56:14  <Sylf> But when each game runs 300-400 game years, and train sets only provide maybe 150 years worth of progression...  I dunno.
21:56:21  <Sylf> It doesn't excite me.
21:57:25  <JohnK> you know, with 18xx - 21xx train progression, some kind of town-industry feedbeck
21:58:22  <Sylf> how would one feed back to the other?
21:58:33  <JohnK> something like yeti
21:58:40  <JohnK> town needs stuff
21:58:55  <JohnK> primaries needs pax
21:59:11  <JohnK> (workers)
21:59:25  <Sylf> there's manpower industries
21:59:35  <Sylf> but its production mechanism is very weird
21:59:58  <JohnK> how weird?
22:00:40  <Sylf> it just is
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22:01:08  <Sylf> you need to get pax to raw industries, just like YETI dudes in YETI
22:01:35  <Sylf> but how the pax is used to increase production isn't well documented
22:02:14  <Sylf> and those primary industries also produce pax, kind of like workers returning home
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22:02:27  <Sylf> very weird system.
22:02:28  <JohnK> hrm
22:02:31  <JohnK> yeah
22:03:00  <Sylf> We really don't need a novelty game idea
22:03:54  <JohnK> well, how about b2b?
22:04:04  <Sylf> business to business?
22:04:08  <Sylf> like how?
22:04:35  <JohnK> something symetric
22:04:43  <JohnK> is it possible?
22:05:03  <Sylf> like you want to split the map into 2 or 3 or 4, and have different network in each?
22:05:32  <Sylf> sure, you can suggest it.
22:05:36  <JohnK> something self-regulating
22:05:36  <Sylf> It can be done.
22:05:37  <JohnK> like
22:05:45  <Sylf> self regulating?
22:05:47  <Sylf> now I'm lost.
22:05:52  <JohnK> no wait
22:06:10  <JohnK> I guess that needs limits in secondary production
22:06:12  <JohnK> like
22:06:35  <JohnK> one toy factory can't produce more than ten thousand toys
22:08:36  <Sylf> If you want a game plan where you have a factory in each corner of the map, or something similar, sure.
22:08:58  <Sylf> there was PSG 194...
22:09:20  <Sylf> but that wasn't what I imagined from B2B or self regulating.
22:10:43  <JohnK> example: I meant 50 primaries to 1 ML to 4 secondaries
22:11:02  <JohnK> wherre thr 4 seconadies are in the corners
22:11:40  <JohnK> (and repeat for each cargo...)
22:12:09  <Sylf> like, in desert map, have food processing plant, factory, and refinery in each corners?
22:12:41  <Sylf> with cargo like steel or paper, what would you do?
22:13:41  <JohnK> paper in desert?
22:14:11  <Sylf> in any climate, really
22:14:18  <JohnK> but yes might be a bad idea
22:15:11  <JohnK> or rather an unusable idea
22:17:45  <JohnK> b
22:18:47  <JohnK> reading the wiki now.. how did the coopetition work out?
22:19:18  <Sylf> it used a patched client, and played a player vs player over 2 hour period.
22:19:23  <Sylf> or something like that.
22:19:52  <JohnK> that's why it died?
22:20:21  <Sylf> I've only seen 2 records of such game.  I wasn't around when those games were played.
22:20:46  <Sylf> and the patch is so old, it won't work out of the box today
22:20:47  <JohnK> I vaguely remember the first one
22:21:38  <JohnK> it was kind of fun to watch
22:24:26  <JohnK> I thought the idea made sense, seems it didn't live much
22:25:55  <JohnK> nevertheless, something about two players building together sounds cool
22:26:31  <JohnK> w/e
22:26:54  <JohnK> makes me think, is there a voice chat?
22:27:51  <Sylf> there's teamspeak
22:28:37  <Sylf> I'm not a fan of non-irc communication for coop though
22:28:46  <JohnK> the one in the sidebar on
22:28:59  <Sylf> yes
22:29:04  <JohnK> never seen anyone on there
22:29:16  <Sylf> I've never used TS, so I don't even know how to get started
22:29:28  <Sylf> nobody uses it that I know of, especially for coop
22:29:43  <Sylf> I've see some users in Other Games or Private sections
22:30:13  <JohnK> well tbh there's not much IRC comm either
22:30:39  <Sylf> we don't have any active players
22:30:51  <Sylf> but
22:31:05  <Sylf> The reason I like IRC is its chat log
22:33:10  <JohnK> true, but for questions like "should I build a (x) or (y) here?"
22:33:56  <JohnK> where x and y really just depend on the map
22:34:31  <JohnK> I guess one can explain the ideas easier using voice-chat?
22:35:10  <JohnK> and I doubt anyone cross-references IRC with savegame signs anyway
22:35:14  <Sylf> when people start talking with hub and station names, I sometimes don't have to be in the game to join the discussion
22:35:47  <Sylf> I might be connected to IRC from work, can't join the game, but still be able to contribute to the discussion
22:37:19  <Sylf> I just don't like voice chat - that's just a personal thing
22:37:31  <Sylf> I don't know about others
22:37:44  <Sylf> but I don't see much other active participants these days anyway
22:38:48  <JohnK> How many new players do you get let's say per month?
22:39:09  <Sylf> no idea
22:39:53  <JohnK> and how many actives do you have? I've counted like 6-7 since I'm frequenting
22:40:39  <JohnK> and that's w/people just making comments about a running game anyway
22:45:03  <JohnK> (I H
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22:53:19  <Kernigh> !players
22:53:19  <coopserver> Kernigh: The server is empty, noone is connected. Feel free to remedy this situation
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