Log for #openttdcoop on 25th November 2014:
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07:26:36  <BaLLeR_MEECH_> yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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12:35:15  <damalix> !password
12:35:15  <coopserver> damalix: chippy
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15:07:14  <Sylf> @stage Building
15:07:14  *** Webster changes topic to "Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG290 (r27018) | STAGE: Building | New players, use @quickstart and !help | | TS3:"
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15:27:01  <Maraxus> !password
15:27:01  <coopserver> Maraxus: limits
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15:38:54  <Vinnie> !password
15:38:54  <coopserver> Vinnie: stored
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15:41:12  <Vinnie> @logs
15:41:12  <Webster> #openttdcoop IRC webstuff - IRC Log Viewer -
15:42:59  <Vinnie> Building :D
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16:04:47  <Vinnie> wtf
16:05:24  <Sylf> ?
16:05:53  <Vinnie> joining/leaving 3 times to change name
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16:34:28  <britboy3456> !password
16:34:28  <coopserver> britboy3456: danish
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16:42:33  <coopserver> <Vinnie> hey
16:42:48  <coopserver> <britboy3456> Hey
16:44:14  <coopserver> <britboy3456> Are we going to start soon?
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16:45:26  <coopserver> <Vinnie> we have started
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16:45:53  <coopserver> <britboy3456> I see
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16:46:24  <coopserver> <Vinnie> you know how to start?
16:46:33  <coopserver> <britboy3456> What do you mean?
16:46:43  <coopserver> <Vinnie> what to build where
16:46:49  <coopserver> <britboy3456> Start growing a city
16:46:56  <coopserver> <Vinnie> ke
17:32:31  <coopserver> <britboy3456> When a town requires building mats and food to grow, is that delivered to the yeti yard?
17:39:29  <coopserver> <Vinnie> yeah yeti yard drop
17:39:36  <coopserver> <britboy3456> cool
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17:48:12  <coopserver> <britboy3456> Hey Jam35
17:48:17  <coopserver> <Jam35> helloo
17:49:33  <coopserver> <Vinnie> hey
17:49:44  <coopserver> <Jam35> hihi
17:50:26  <coopserver> <Jam35> not much going on here?
17:50:35  <coopserver> <britboy3456> Not yet
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17:52:37  <coopserver> <Vinnie> 50% of required alcohol to begin startup sequence has been completed
17:53:12  <coopserver> <Jam35> at 75% :P
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18:28:03  <britboy3456> !password
18:28:03  <coopserver> britboy3456: fairly
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19:13:58  <V453000> !password
19:13:58  <coopserver> V453000: doesnt
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19:14:16  <coopserver> <V453000> yo
19:14:30  <coopserver> <Mitooo> hi
19:14:39  <coopserver> <Vinnie> shhh
19:14:44  <coopserver> <Vinnie> people sleeping
19:16:20  <coopserver> <V453000> wtf is
19:16:21  <coopserver> <V453000> what
19:16:27  <coopserver> <V453000> temp
19:16:29  <coopserver> <V453000> k :d
19:16:44  <coopserver> <V453000> will leave this for Sylf to sort out XD
19:16:46  <coopserver> *** V453000 has left the game (Leaving)
19:16:51  <coopserver> <Vinnie> lol
19:16:54  <coopserver> <Vinnie> ragequiter
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19:19:15  <coopserver> <Vinnie> wow, really 1 in 255 will be cities
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19:25:05  <V453000> nah I just got enough stuff to do :P
19:25:13  <coopserver> <britboy3456> Got rid of it
19:25:26  <coopserver> <britboy3456> I was testing everything work
19:25:28  <coopserver> <britboy3456> ed
19:25:33  <coopserver> <britboy3456> which it didn't
19:25:37  <coopserver> <britboy3456> but it does now
19:26:06  <coopserver> <Vinnie> which secondary are you gonna connect to?
19:26:44  <coopserver> <britboy3456> What?
19:27:00  <coopserver> <Vinnie> do i need to explain the plan?
19:27:43  <coopserver> <britboy3456> Do you mean primary?
19:27:48  <coopserver> <Vinnie> because it literary says: each yeti connects to one type of secondary
19:27:49  <coopserver> <britboy3456> If not, yes please
19:28:04  <coopserver> <Vinnie> ohh nvm
19:28:09  <coopserver> <Vinnie> it is primairy
19:30:04  <coopserver> <britboy3456> Go with clay i think
19:31:03  <Maraxus> !password
19:31:03  <coopserver> Maraxus: sounds
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19:31:25  <coopserver> <britboy3456> Hey
19:31:30  <coopserver> <Maraxus> hi
19:32:00  <coopserver> <britboy3456> Are you intentionally doing L___R?
19:32:07  <coopserver> <britboy3456> The plan says L____R
19:32:17  <coopserver> <Vinnie> that just means a gap
19:32:24  <coopserver> <britboy3456> o right
19:33:07  <coopserver> <Vinnie> we used to write it like LL5RR which was more clear
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19:49:55  <damalix> !password
19:49:55  <coopserver> damalix: dumper
19:49:59  <damalix> hello in there
19:50:04  <coopserver> <britboy3456> Hey
19:50:08  <coopserver> <Vinnie> holla senior
19:50:14  <coopserver> <Maraxus> hi
19:50:15  <coopserver> <Mitooo> hey
19:50:19  <damalix> !password
19:50:19  <coopserver> damalix: dumper
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19:51:07  <coopserver> <Vinnie> who is actually building beside me and brit?
19:51:26  <coopserver> <Damalix> I just joined so I don't
19:54:27  <coopserver> <britboy3456> :)
19:54:29  <coopserver> <Damalix> :)
19:55:02  <coopserver> <Damalix> that previous pax game was a training round then, right ?
20:08:46  <coopserver> <Vinnie> there
20:18:17  <coopserver> <Vinnie> does someone wanna pick a yeti town?
20:18:25  <coopserver> <Vinnie> ill make a drop
20:18:32  <coopserver> <Damalix> I was going to pick tuomela
20:20:06  <coopserver> <Vinnie> is it me or does that town exist twice
20:20:11  <coopserver> <britboy3456> Yep
20:20:20  <coopserver> <britboy3456> So does olkela
20:20:26  <coopserver> <Damalix> lol
20:20:31  <coopserver> <britboy3456> And Kiekkajoki
20:20:33  <coopserver> <Vinnie> that should give an error
20:20:34  <coopserver> <Damalix> let's wipeone out :)
20:20:35  <coopserver> <Mitooo> and others as well
20:22:42  <coopserver> <Vinnie> Damalix: may i connect to Kokkola Plantation?
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20:23:00  <coopserver> <britboy3456> gtg now cya guys
20:23:08  <coopserver> <Vinnie> later
20:23:26  <coopserver> <Damalix> cya
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20:33:20  <coopserver> <Vinnie> tunnel madness incomming
20:33:22  <coopserver> <Vinnie> LD
20:39:29  <coopserver> <Damalix> that yeti station is done ?
20:39:31  <coopserver> <Damalix> :)
20:40:01  <coopserver> <Damalix> Is ? Is there an industry needing some ?
20:40:15  <coopserver> <britboy3456> There's a 3A
20:40:16  <coopserver> <Vinnie> !here
20:40:25  <coopserver> <britboy3456> Or 2C
20:40:55  <coopserver> <Damalix> I'll pick up the farthest :)
20:41:10  <coopserver> <Damalix> so let's go !here :)
20:53:14  <coopserver> <Vinnie> ill stop before my name is all over the place
20:53:41  <coopserver> <Damalix> :)
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20:55:05  <coopserver> <Vinnie> Mitooo: active?
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20:55:44  <coopserver> <Mitooo> vinnie :  yes
20:55:56  <coopserver> <Vinnie> ke
21:00:36  <Vinnie> need some help building?
21:02:04  <coopserver> <Mitooo> maybe at a terminus station
21:03:43  <coopserver> <Vinnie> sure, tell me where i can explain
21:04:21  <coopserver> <Mitooo> i don't really get the "buffer" system
21:04:35  <coopserver> <Vinnie> aha, well thats called an overflow
21:04:51  <coopserver> <Vinnie> it basicly catches trains if a pickup station is full
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21:05:03  <coopserver> <Vinnie> right now you see the most advanced ones
21:05:13  <coopserver> <Vinnie> which are quite complicated
21:05:30  <coopserver> <Vinnie> so in order to learn you need to build one step by step
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21:05:40  <coopserver> <Vinnie> do you want to do that?
21:05:51  <coopserver> <Mitooo> yes
21:05:55  <coopserver> <britboy3456> I don't have them on either of mine Vinnie btw
21:06:22  <coopserver> <Vinnie> how about you pick a town with a yeti station and build a pickup and a drop station
21:06:50  <coopserver> <Vinnie> doesnt matter where you pick it on the map, just about 50 tiles or more from a claimed town would be nice
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21:08:12  <coopserver> <Mitooo> done (rovala)
21:08:37  <coopserver> <Vinnie> oke which side do you want the drop and which side will be the pickup?
21:08:41  <coopserver> <Vinnie> nice
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21:09:13  <coopserver> <Vinnie> now we gonna make some tracks to get a left lane and right lane for each drop
21:10:46  <coopserver> <Vinnie> something like example
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21:12:00  <coopserver> <Mitooo> got this
21:12:56  <coopserver> <Vinnie> want me to build those tracks or will you?
21:13:07  <coopserver> <Mitooo> i'll do it, thanks
21:13:56  <coopserver> <Vinnie> can you try and connect them both to here?
21:14:39  <coopserver> <Vinnie> with some signals
21:14:45  <coopserver> <Vinnie> please
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21:15:08  <coopserver> <Vinnie> come on britboy3456
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21:16:04  <coopserver> <Vinnie> you got interupted but he wanted to tell you
21:16:26  <coopserver> <Vinnie> that we use 1 gap between signals and not 3 like you dide
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21:16:50  <coopserver> <Mitooo> yep, forgot to switch to that
21:16:53  <coopserver> <britboy3456> Vinnie, in my design I put an extra 2 way path before the station
21:16:59  <coopserver> <britboy3456> Does that actually help atall?
21:17:07  <coopserver> <Vinnie> we do this across the entire network to get a little more train density on the mainline
21:17:18  <coopserver> <Vinnie> it does nothing
21:17:23  <coopserver> <britboy3456> k
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21:17:44  <coopserver> <Vinnie> do you see the blue part of your station?
21:17:48  <coopserver> <Mitooo> yes
21:18:08  <coopserver> <Vinnie> it would be nice if there was a signal after the bridge
21:18:16  <coopserver> <Vinnie> it improves flow a little
21:18:28  <coopserver> <Mitooo> indeed
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21:19:04  <coopserver> <Vinnie> ok, lets do the hub to mainline and see if it will fit
21:21:43  <coopserver> <Vinnie> some signals to finish
21:22:31  <coopserver> <Vinnie> and now a sign in the middle
21:22:44  <coopserver> <Vinnie> on the sign write
21:23:05  <coopserver> <Vinnie> MSH 08 /Mitooo
21:23:23  <coopserver> <Vinnie> but we start with a space so its on the top of the signlist
21:23:42  <coopserver> <Vinnie> you already did, nice
21:24:00  <coopserver> <Vinnie> oke, the overflow is always for a pickup
21:24:07  <coopserver> <Vinnie> never for a drop station
21:24:27  <coopserver> <Mitooo> so i need to change the order of the stations?
21:24:35  <coopserver> <Vinnie> in this game we have fluctuating productions
21:24:52  <coopserver> <Vinnie> buildwise it would be easier
21:26:32  <coopserver> <Vinnie> lets see how it works with no overflow
21:27:13  <coopserver> <Vinnie> do you wanna make 4 trains with shared orders that pickup yeti and drop it at 3A
21:27:23  <coopserver> <Mitooo> yep
21:28:54  <coopserver> <Vinnie> as you can see they block the track to the drop station
21:29:11  <coopserver> <Vinnie> which can back up a long jam that will mess with a mainline
21:29:37  <coopserver> <Vinnie> so to prevent this we can use a simple presignal setup
21:30:04  <coopserver> <Vinnie> if you have a split like example
21:30:38  <coopserver> <Vinnie> it will send the trains from pickup to the overflow depot
21:31:08  <coopserver> <Vinnie> this works because of two reasons
21:31:19  <coopserver> <Vinnie> 1. we have the setting two-way eol on
21:31:37  <coopserver> <Vinnie> this will force a train to choose another path if a two way signal is red
21:32:01  <coopserver> <Vinnie> 2. a depot has an build in exit pre signal
21:32:38  <coopserver> <Vinnie> preventing trains from exitting if all exit/combo signals connected to depot are red
21:33:25  <coopserver> <Vinnie> if you will implement this structure in the current layout you can add 20 trains more from previous depot and see what will happen
21:33:31  <coopserver> <Vinnie> try this please
21:34:57  <coopserver> <Jam35> perhaps name the MSH as industry
21:35:09  <coopserver> <Jam35> 2B or whatever
21:35:12  <coopserver> <britboy3456> me?
21:35:17  <coopserver> <Jam35> everyone
21:35:34  <coopserver> <Jam35> easier to read the network imo
21:36:32  <coopserver> <Jam35> doesn't work with 4X
21:36:45  <coopserver> <Jam35> not unique
21:36:53  <coopserver> <Jam35> 4Xa b c ?
21:37:34  <coopserver> <Damalix> I'm off to sleep... See ya later :)
21:37:39  <coopserver> <Jam35> gn
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21:37:56  <coopserver> <britboy3456> im off too, properly now :P
21:37:57  <coopserver> <britboy3456> cya
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21:40:54  <coopserver> <Vinnie> ohh to complicated to explain
21:40:57  <coopserver> <Vinnie> one min
21:42:01  <coopserver> <Mitooo> better
21:42:13  <coopserver> <Vinnie> sorry i was hoping the train pathfinder would be a bit smarter
21:42:22  <coopserver> <Vinnie> as you can see this works nicely
21:42:51  <coopserver> <Vinnie> all excess trains are caught in depot and release when there is room
21:43:18  <coopserver> <Vinnie> this is the basic function of all designs
21:43:49  <coopserver> <Vinnie> but this has one drawback
21:44:06  <coopserver> <Vinnie> the depot is visible by the train pathfinder
21:44:32  <coopserver> <Vinnie> which can cause trouble in certain network designs we use or autoreplace orders
21:44:47  <coopserver> <Vinnie> so we want to make all depots invisible
21:45:00  <coopserver> <Vinnie> this we do with a reverser
21:46:06  <coopserver> <Vinnie> if you would replace the current design with example 2
21:46:16  <coopserver> <Vinnie> you can pick any random train
21:46:22  <coopserver> <Vinnie> order it to find a depot
21:46:32  <coopserver> <Vinnie> and it should give an error message
21:48:42  <coopserver> <Vinnie> do you get an error message?
21:48:46  <coopserver> <Mitooo> yep
21:48:53  <coopserver> <Mitooo> it seems to work
21:48:55  <coopserver> <Vinnie> oke that makes us happy
21:49:18  <coopserver> <Vinnie> now it has all the basics of an overflow for our network
21:49:22  <coopserver> <Vinnie> its good
21:49:40  <coopserver> <Vinnie> except here we take efficiency to the extreme
21:49:51  <coopserver> <Vinnie> so we find bottlenecks
21:50:16  <coopserver> <Vinnie> one of those is that a train cannot enter and leave depot at the same time
21:50:35  <coopserver> <Vinnie> we can minimise that with a waiting bay after the depot
21:52:32  <coopserver> <Vinnie> i think example 3 has such a waiting bay
21:53:18  <coopserver> <Vinnie> notice how the red part is equal to the trainlength
21:54:15  <coopserver> <Vinnie> would you like to build it or shall i do the next example
21:54:38  <coopserver> <Mitooo> it'll be great if yo do that, thanks
21:55:17  <coopserver> <Vinnie> oke now we see another bottleneck
21:55:44  <coopserver> <Vinnie> the blue part is one giant signalgap we can reduce a little
21:56:43  <coopserver> <Vinnie> simply like that
21:57:03  <coopserver> <Vinnie> but still 2 tiles there
21:57:18  <coopserver> <Vinnie> so not perfect, we switch tracks a little to fix
21:58:43  <coopserver> <Vinnie> do you still see the overflow in there?
21:59:23  <coopserver> <Mitooo> no
21:59:43  <coopserver> <Vinnie> green part is the same ok?
22:00:55  <coopserver> <Vinnie> oke the parts that do the same have equal colour now
22:01:12  <coopserver> <Vinnie> in green the reverser
22:01:28  <coopserver> <Vinnie> followed by the track to the depot in grey
22:01:38  <coopserver> <Vinnie> then the waiting bay in red
22:02:15  <coopserver> <Vinnie> and finally the blue section that is both the release of waiting bay and the overflow to depot
22:03:13  <coopserver> <Vinnie> is it clear again or are you lost somewhere?
22:03:51  <coopserver> <Mitooo> no it's good
22:04:07  <coopserver> <Vinnie> oke, now we get real complicated
22:04:14  <coopserver> <Vinnie> do you know priorities?
22:04:21  <coopserver> <Mitooo> nope
22:04:51  <coopserver> <Vinnie> well you need to know them to further improve this overflow
22:05:00  <coopserver> <Vinnie> do you wanna learn priorities?
22:05:06  <coopserver> <Mitooo> yes
22:05:26  <coopserver> <Vinnie> oke lets go to my MSH 01
22:05:56  <coopserver> <Vinnie> oke we divide lines,
22:06:05  <coopserver> <Vinnie> we have mainlines and sidelines
22:06:17  <coopserver> <Vinnie> one is more important then the other
22:06:35  <coopserver> <Vinnie> in this case you can think of the yellow lines as sidelines
22:06:43  <coopserver> <Vinnie> and the red line as a mainline
22:07:19  <coopserver> <Vinnie> meaning, whenever a train from both the redline and the yellowline join a track
22:07:28  <coopserver> <Vinnie> and wanna occupy the same tile
22:07:39  <coopserver> <Vinnie> the yellow line must always stop for the red line
22:07:46  <coopserver> <Vinnie> is this clear so far?
22:07:52  <coopserver> <Mitooo> yes
22:08:38  <coopserver> <Vinnie> there are 2 places a yellow line and a red line meet
22:08:48  <coopserver> <Vinnie> can you see them?
22:08:54  <coopserver> <Mitooo> yes
22:09:21  <coopserver> <Vinnie> so using pre signals we can make a priority
22:09:22  *** Progman has quit IRC
22:10:37  <coopserver> <Vinnie> below you see the most basic priority we can make using presignals
22:11:02  <coopserver> <Vinnie> it has the length of the blue track
22:11:28  <coopserver> <Vinnie> and when a train on the red line occupies any part of this track
22:11:43  <coopserver> <Vinnie> it will send a red signal over the grey part
22:12:11  <coopserver> <Vinnie> which will always reach the green signal
22:12:30  <coopserver> <Vinnie> one it will turn red because the combo signal is also red
22:13:11  <coopserver> <Vinnie> did that make any sense?
22:13:18  <coopserver> <Jam35> put a train on it :)
22:13:25  <coopserver> <Jam35> prove it :P
22:13:58  <coopserver> <Mitooo> makes sense now
22:15:23  <coopserver> <Vinnie> would you please try and make it on the active track?
22:16:54  <coopserver> <Vinnie> its true that it cannot be equal in length
22:17:08  <coopserver> <Vinnie> doesnt matter if it is a bit shorter
22:17:18  <coopserver> <Vinnie> or that
22:18:03  <coopserver> <Vinnie> that signal is not a combo signal
22:18:16  <coopserver> <Vinnie> should be an entry
22:18:49  <coopserver> <Vinnie> stop a train anywhere on the blue part and see if it works
22:19:40  <coopserver> <Vinnie> nice
22:19:52  <coopserver> <Vinnie> thats it
22:20:02  <coopserver> <Vinnie> thats all that a prio does
22:20:19  <coopserver> <Vinnie> it stops one lane when a more important one is occupied
22:22:08  <coopserver> <Vinnie> Example 6 on the other side of the mountain
22:22:12  <coopserver> <Vinnie> do you see it?
22:22:16  <coopserver> <Mitooo> yes
22:22:34  <coopserver> <Vinnie> oke lets colour the important lines and not important ones
22:22:42  <coopserver> <Vinnie> red is important
22:23:13  <coopserver> <Vinnie> meaning if a train is comming to occupy the waiting bay in red
22:23:28  <coopserver> <Vinnie> no train from yellow waiting bay can release
22:23:31  <coopserver> <Vinnie> it must wait
22:23:53  <coopserver> <Vinnie> still clear?
22:24:00  <coopserver> <Mitooo> yes
22:24:11  <coopserver> <Vinnie> oke now im gonna clear the signs
22:24:43  <coopserver> <Vinnie> you would say a simple prio looks like this, if added to the overflow
22:25:16  <coopserver> <Vinnie> right?
22:25:27  <coopserver> <Mitooo> yep
22:26:07  <coopserver> <Vinnie> but the exit signal at green sees both pre-signals on the blue track
22:26:20  <coopserver> <Jam35> gn
22:26:24  <coopserver> <Vinnie> cya
22:26:25  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has left the game (Leaving)
22:26:41  <coopserver> <Vinnie> which means this prio will not work
22:26:57  <coopserver> <Vinnie> because it can only see one pre-signal to work as a priority
22:27:01  *** Jam35 is now known as Jam35_
22:27:09  <coopserver> <Vinnie> is that clear?
22:27:20  <coopserver> <Mitooo> yes
22:27:47  <coopserver> <Vinnie> so lets change a little in grey to make it one pre-signal on blue part
22:28:34  <coopserver> <Vinnie> see how the priority now ends in the red waiting bay?
22:29:06  <coopserver> <Mitooo> yeah
22:29:41  <coopserver> <Vinnie> so if a train occupies the red waiting bay he will trigger the priority red
22:30:17  <coopserver> <Vinnie> but it will also go red if a train comes on the red track
22:31:18  <coopserver> <Vinnie> this basicly is the version used 6 months ago
22:31:41  <coopserver> <Vinnie> until a genius had a breaktrough and wanted more efficiency
22:32:02  <coopserver> <Vinnie> wanna go further or is this complicated enough
22:32:21  <coopserver> <Vinnie> because these kind of overflows are accepted in this game
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22:33:38  <coopserver> <Mitooo> nope, it's good
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22:35:38  <coopserver> <Vinnie> ill grab some sleep then
22:35:40  <coopserver> <Vinnie> cya
22:35:53  <coopserver> *** Vinnie has left the game (Leaving)
22:35:56  <coopserver> <Mitooo> well i'll go to sleep too
22:36:13  <coopserver> *** Mitooo has left the game (Leaving)
22:36:14  <coopserver> *** Game paused (number of players)
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