Log for #openttdcoop on 11th December 2014:
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12:19:10  <eekee> annoying... trains now insist on going where they're supposed to get serviced. this means you can't split the servicing between multiple depots any more
12:25:03  <V453000> what do you mean?
12:27:16  <V453000> or in otherwords, what problem are you getting?
12:27:22  <V453000> @depots
12:27:23  <Webster> Train Servicing and Autoreplace at #openttdcoop -
12:27:35  <V453000> ^ hints how to make flawless depots
12:33:22  <eekee> ty... hmmm
12:34:19  <eekee> no use. first, there's barely enough room for the smaller, outlying trains to have a full-length reversing station
12:35:08  <eekee> second, i like to keep breakdowns and servicing on.
12:35:49  <eekee> oh no, second is the time it takes them to go into the station, stop, and come out through the same lines they entered would kill the network
12:37:22  <eekee> i had a fine trick; order them to service at a particular depot, but to get there they had to go through one of two or more other depots. it lets more trains get serviced at once. formerly they'd get serviced in these other depots; but now they go into the one they're ordered to as well.
12:38:32  <V453000> oh god breakdowns
12:39:57  <eekee> :D
12:40:16  <eekee> i do keep them on 'reduced'; 'normal' is just ridiculous
12:42:56  <V453000> IF there was a way how to get rid of them by proper servicing, I would consider it at least
12:43:12  <V453000> but since there is no way to play it right, it just always punishes you, it is just stupid to me
12:44:25  <eekee> nah, proper servicing and selecting your engines for reliability makes a huge difference
12:44:31  <V453000> all it does is just make any of your tracks able to break anywhere and at any time. Which means that the tracks have less train density on average, and that you do not really need to build so properly, because some smaller issues just get overshaded by the breakdowns
12:44:36  <V453000> sure
12:44:40  <V453000> I didnt say it doesnt make a difference
12:45:06  <V453000> the problem is there is no ideal scenario, your tracks will always break
12:45:23  <V453000> which is honestly utterly wrong
12:46:13  <eekee> i need to see a few coop games; maybe the final saves. i've seen the tutorial; that has a far lower train density than my 2050 transport co :)
12:46:34  <V453000> you probably do need to see a couple then :P
12:46:53  <V453000> the pro zone is a very reliable place to look at, especially the last few games
12:46:55  <eekee> right :)
12:47:00  <eekee> ty
12:47:04  <V453000> but the public server archive is also quite good quite often
12:47:15  <V453000> @pzg2013
12:47:15  <V453000> ;)
12:47:15  <Webster> Dont Try This At Home: ProZone Game 2013 at #openttdcoop -
12:47:21  <eekee> ty
12:48:27  <V453000> train density galore :P impossible to have more
12:54:30  <eekee> hahahaha
12:54:53  <V453000> took a while to build :)
12:55:46  <eekee> i bet :)
12:55:50  <eekee> i love the rails
12:56:32  <V453000> open the savegame, seeing the synchronized mainline is nice to see :P
12:56:42  <eekee> the thing is, my network being tolerant to breakdowns makes it tolerant to little changes in acceleration
12:57:14  <V453000> every normal network is fine with that
12:57:18  <V453000> this isnt, sure
12:59:52  <eekee> mostly i want to make a normal network and push that beyond normal limits. if i want a logic puzzle, i'll play a puzzle game, and if i want to program, i'll do that
12:59:58  <hylje> the logical conclusion of openttd
13:01:14  <V453000> yes, that game was extremely special, just trying to achieve the maximum train density on the lines
13:01:20  <V453000> most of our games are different.
13:01:54  <eekee> aha i see
13:02:39  <V453000> you mentioned train density so I just replied to that :P
13:04:12  <eekee> aha
13:07:11  <eekee> does hendikins/hendy ever come around here? years ago he made a track where no broken-down train could block any other train. he gave it up as too big though.
13:12:11  <V453000> never heard that name
13:12:31  <V453000> and they can always block somehow, nothing is infinite :)
13:12:33  <eekee> ah. guess he was too busy
13:17:55  <eekee> one thing annoyed me in the tutorial: where there's two main line tracks each way, trains from the sideline would sometimes choose the wrong main line to join. they'd choose the busy one and get stuck
13:18:36  <eekee> i have a pbs-based idea which is much simpler. it just requires a bit of width for multiple main lines
13:18:45  <V453000> if the priority is short enough, they do not get stuck for as long
13:18:59  <V453000> and there are ways to make it a bit more intelligent, too ... but very situational
13:19:10  <eekee> mmhmm
13:19:15  <V453000> it is best to simply have short priorities, so no trains wait much
13:19:39  <V453000> of course functionally it does not really matter that one train would be stuck somewhere forever, it is just ugly
13:19:47  <eekee> my mag-levs take too long to reach top speed for that to make sense
13:20:16  <eekee> actually the situation i'm talking about could rapidly generate tailbacks
13:20:50  <V453000> well sure, using poorly accelerating trains has many downsides, not just there
13:21:06  <V453000> which is why we use trains which accelerate nicely
13:21:21  <V453000> with exceptions, sometimes we dont
13:21:24  <V453000> but that is rare
13:21:29  <eekee> aha
13:22:46  <V453000> trains with good acceleration are well controllable, and more interesting because they usually again create smaller gaps between each other, requiring things to be built better
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13:23:35  <eekee> hmm
13:23:50  <V453000> trying to solve the poor acceleration by track contraptions just leads nowhere but to rather large amounts of logic, hacks, and workarounds
13:23:59  <V453000> or ultimately to the game I already showed you :)
13:24:57  <eekee> haha i see
13:25:31  <V453000> strong trains are simply fun. :)
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13:28:55  <eekee> it's always been about the challenge for me, so the challenge of relatively slow acceleration and the challenge of breakdowns are things i want to keep. hmm.. not all about the challenge; i want to keep a little realism too
13:32:41  <V453000> I would say building a network with 3000 trains is also quite a challenge ;)
13:33:09  <eekee> yeah! hehe
13:33:29  <eekee> challenge is also why i enabled cargodist
13:33:47  <V453000> nice, we can disagree some further :P
13:33:51  <eekee> heheheee
13:34:26  <V453000> I would just say try to build with us for a bit and you will see some reasons ;)
13:34:44  <eekee> i'll certainly come watch if my isp lets me
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20:01:25  <Hazzard_> !date
20:01:25  <coopserver> Mar 07 2837
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22:33:25  <bio> whats dat darn pathifinding setting again to allow reversers to work?
22:35:29  <bio> nvm found
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23:37:39  <Hazzard> !date
23:37:39  <coopserver> Feb 22 2853
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