Log for #openttdcoop on 28th May 2015:
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00:06:29  <glevans2> !pw
00:06:29  <coopserver> glevans2: naming
00:06:36  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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07:35:57  <lol> !pw
07:35:57  <coopserver> lol: frosch
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10:28:56  <lol> !pw
10:28:56  <coopserver> lol: rename
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13:03:26  <lol> !pw
13:03:26  <coopserver> lol: arrays
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13:48:10  <Plonka> !pw
13:48:10  <coopserver> Plonka: throws
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14:11:47  <Starbud> !pw
14:11:47  <coopserver> Starbud: outway
14:14:21  <Plonka> oh star bud
14:14:28  <Plonka> starbud
14:14:39  <Plonka> you need a different version to play on here
14:14:43  <Plonka> type !dl
14:15:49  <Plonka> you will also need to download the new grf pack from here
14:15:50  <Plonka>
14:15:50  <Webster> Read the Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - (again, try !grf)
14:20:59  <Starbud> oh, hehe, was it that simple, i went to and did some typing to get an older nightly
14:21:28  <Plonka> yep evertytime they update just type !dl here :)
14:21:38  <Starbud> i managet to get in and i get a green dot and can join but the password i got seems to be wrong
14:21:50  <Starbud> sweet :)
14:22:08  <Plonka> !pw
14:22:08  <coopserver> Plonka: covers
14:22:17  <Starbud> got to test it
14:22:21  <Starbud> !dl
14:22:21  <coopserver> Starbud: !download lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
14:22:22  <coopserver> Starbud:
14:22:23  <Plonka> pw changes very often
14:22:36  <Plonka> !pw
14:22:36  <coopserver> Plonka: covers
14:22:42  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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14:22:53  <coopserver> <Starbud> hi
14:22:56  <coopserver> <plonka> welcome starbud
14:23:18  <coopserver> <Starbud> thanks, seems the password change after a little while
14:23:31  <coopserver> <plonka> yeh every few minutes i think
14:23:55  <coopserver> <Starbud> good security to keep destroyers away
14:24:07  <coopserver> <plonka> checkout "hell station"
14:24:15  <coopserver> <plonka> is that extreme enough for you? :P
14:24:27  <coopserver> <plonka> yeah apparently they've never had a destroyer in here
14:24:51  <coopserver> <plonka> i think destroyers just look for non porcted servers and companys
14:24:57  <coopserver> <plonka> easy targets as it were
14:25:39  <coopserver> <Starbud> yes, makes sense
14:25:54  <coopserver> <Starbud> the hell station i sure do like :)
14:27:05  <coopserver> <Starbud> seems i need to go home to play this map because it lags alittle bit, needs my clocked computer with faster mamory
14:27:22  <coopserver> <Starbud> works well when zoomed in but if i zoom out
14:28:05  <coopserver> <plonka> yeah this server gets hetic
14:28:18  <coopserver> <plonka> 2 games ago we had 2600 trains running
14:28:34  <coopserver> <Starbud> me like :)
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14:29:08  <coopserver> <plonka> yep some crazy stuff gets built on here :D
14:29:17  <coopserver> <plonka> brb
14:29:19  <coopserver> <Starbud> V45000 is a person right?
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14:31:49  <coopserver> <plonka> yes
14:32:26  <coopserver> <plonka> if u see a sign endning in something like /maraxus
14:32:29  <coopserver> <Starbud> seems terraforming is supposed to be kept to a minimum right?
14:32:31  <coopserver> <plonka> that's a person
14:32:46  <coopserver> <plonka> we sign everything we build or change
14:32:59  <coopserver> <plonka> unless wothwise stated in the  game plan
14:33:07  <coopserver> <plonka> you can tf as much as you need
14:33:10  <coopserver> <Starbud> okay
14:33:14  <coopserver> <plonka> but not as much as you want
14:33:21  <coopserver> <Starbud> ah okey
14:33:25  <coopserver> <Starbud> okay
14:33:47  <coopserver> <plonka> so basiclly if you NEED to alter land to fit in some construction
14:33:50  <coopserver> <plonka> you can
14:34:06  <coopserver> <Starbud> not like when i play for just myself when i flatten everything in my way to make network extremly efficient
14:34:37  <coopserver> <Starbud> and i usually delete both industries and towns when playing my self
14:35:04  <coopserver> <plonka> town destruction is ok here if it's needed
14:35:23  <coopserver> <plonka> but only if there's no way to work around it
14:35:25  <coopserver> <Starbud> okay i'll ask when i do something big
14:35:40  <coopserver> <plonka> be careful when adding trains too
14:35:42  <coopserver> <Starbud> ok, i think i got the general idea :)
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14:36:10  <coopserver> <plonka> anything you do build or change leave a sign say what you did and /starbud :)
14:36:12  <coopserver> <Starbud> not to make too much trains
14:36:28  <coopserver> <Starbud> i'll do that :)
14:36:45  <coopserver> <plonka> yeah 2 games ago i put signs up saying now more trains to certian hubs or stations
14:36:52  <coopserver> <plonka> and someone ignored it
14:37:05  <coopserver> <Starbud> i bet i will get an opinion eventually if it is liked by the oter players too at some point
14:37:06  <coopserver> <plonka> they added 200 new trains and half them went though those hubs
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14:37:23  <coopserver> <plonka> those trains killed the hubs and jammed the entire network lol
14:37:42  <coopserver> <Starbud> yes that is a problem
14:38:12  <coopserver> <Starbud> just a few trains too moch can halt the major parts of a network
14:38:52  <coopserver> <plonka> yep especially when your hunbs all connect to make a huge roundabout or many pittle rounds abouts like that game did
14:40:14  <coopserver> <Starbud> fist of all i will look around toget an idea of the network
14:40:43  <coopserver> <plonka> tbh there's not a lot left to do in this game
14:40:50  <coopserver> <plonka> except maybe add trains
14:41:12  <coopserver> <plonka> the south east side is where most developing is needed
14:41:21  <coopserver> <Starbud> okay
14:41:37  <coopserver> <plonka> there's still scope there to upgrade from ll,rr to llll,rrrr
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14:45:15  <coopserver> <Starbud> i really dont know where north or east is
14:45:52  <coopserver> <Starbud> is bbh07 in the south?
14:46:18  <coopserver> <plonka> bbh01-slh05-bbh07 could do with all being made fully lll,rrr
14:46:23  <coopserver> <plonka> yes it is :)
14:46:56  <coopserver> <Starbud> ok, so bbh01=east ?
14:47:06  <coopserver> <plonka> yep
14:47:43  <coopserver> <Starbud> good, the corners are placed in either south east west or north?
14:47:52  <coopserver> <Starbud> not the long sides
14:48:10  <coopserver> <plonka> yep
14:48:30  <coopserver> <Starbud> :) thankie
14:49:18  <coopserver> <plonka> oh bbh07 is already lll,rrr
14:49:26  <coopserver> <plonka> even almost llll,rrrr
14:49:32  <coopserver> <plonka> just needs connecting
14:49:47  <coopserver> <plonka> then extending to slh05
14:49:58  <coopserver> <Starbud> is there a reason why depots are placed after some stations?
14:50:22  <coopserver> <plonka> yep we keep deopts in visible on this server
14:50:44  <coopserver> <Starbud> they dont seem to be invisible at all
14:50:46  <coopserver> <plonka> usually at least
14:50:54  <coopserver> <plonka> nope always
14:51:04  <coopserver> <Starbud> i can see them :D
14:51:16  <coopserver> <Starbud> sounds like i miss somet point here
14:51:31  <coopserver> <plonka> heh invis means trains can't see them when general pathfinding
14:51:58  <coopserver> <plonka> they are hiden behind stations which trains can't see until they go through the stations
14:52:00  <coopserver> <Starbud> oh
14:52:03  <coopserver> <plonka> or
14:52:11  <coopserver> <plonka> they are hidden behind reversers
14:52:22  <coopserver> <Starbud> does it have something to do with performance of the pathfinder?
14:53:00  <coopserver> <plonka> what it does is if you need to auto renew trains or wagons or send trains to depots for any reasons
14:53:14  <coopserver> <plonka> it stops them not going to depots that aren't on their route
14:53:34  <coopserver> <plonka> so trains don't end u where they shouldnt
14:53:50  <coopserver> <Starbud> i tried something once, placing waypoints after stations like on some of these stations on this server, then i could get them to go in to the station at full speed and make a turnaround and just move one tile in a slow speed
14:53:56  <coopserver> <Starbud> is that the idea here?
14:54:16  <coopserver> <plonka> no how it's workin here is
14:54:29  <coopserver> <plonka> trains goto priamry and pick up a resource
14:54:35  <coopserver> <plonka> they goto the drop
14:54:40  <coopserver> <plonka> drop the cargo
14:54:45  <coopserver> <plonka> then they refit
14:54:53  <coopserver> <plonka> pick up a secondary cargo
14:55:06  <coopserver> <plonka> then take it back from where they came from
14:55:20  <coopserver> <plonka> so both journeys they are caryying carho
14:55:31  <coopserver> <Starbud> aaah, i see, good idea
14:55:47  <coopserver> <plonka> yep :)
14:56:01  <coopserver> <Starbud> altho it goes against my felling but i'm ok with it :)
14:56:13  <coopserver> <plonka> hehe don't worry
14:56:27  <coopserver> <Starbud> i dont worry, i can live with it
14:56:44  <coopserver> <plonka> every game on this server is completely different in terms what cargo we carry and how it's carried
14:56:51  <coopserver> <Starbud> out of a network load point of wiew it's a good thing
14:57:42  <coopserver> <plonka> yep
14:58:10  <coopserver> <Starbud> i like the maze around gruntway woods
15:00:36  <coopserver> <plonka> yep it's cool
15:05:37  <coopserver> <Starbud> i think i see something i can do
15:05:52  <coopserver> <Starbud> will be alot of work
15:06:17  <coopserver> <Starbud> the use of signals are bery good on this server
15:06:21  <coopserver> <Starbud> very
15:07:19  <coopserver> <Starbud> i just noticed something, there are no loadbalancers here right?
15:12:15  <coopserver> <plonka> nope
15:12:27  <coopserver> <plonka> all balancing is generally built into the hubs
15:13:03  <coopserver> <plonka> sometimes in some gates counter not gates are built
15:13:09  <coopserver> <Starbud> i need to learn this system better before i start to build stuff
15:13:25  <coopserver> <plonka> so like it makes 5 trains turn left and then 1 turn right etc
15:14:25  <coopserver> <Starbud> counters, is it what i think it is then it's a feature i have been having a desire for for a long time :)
15:14:50  <coopserver> <Starbud> can you show me a counter?
15:15:14  <coopserver> <plonka> it's basically a complex logic system that forces x number of trains to turn one way
15:15:20  <coopserver> <plonka> and x to turn another
15:15:29  <coopserver> <plonka> hang on a sec
15:15:46  <coopserver> <Starbud> ok :)
15:16:19  <coopserver> <plonka> google ottdcoop public server archive
15:16:39  <coopserver> <plonka> click games 291-300
15:17:02  <coopserver> <plonka> 3rg game down has plenty of not gates and counters :)
15:17:27  <coopserver> <plonka> just load it up and have a look at the big stations
15:27:23  <coopserver> <Starbud> ยง
15:27:39  <coopserver> <plonka> ?
15:27:45  <coopserver> <Starbud> typo
15:27:52  <coopserver> <plonka> k lol
15:28:24  <coopserver> <Starbud> are the counters made by signals and logic engine in combination?
15:28:36  <coopserver> <Starbud> or ist it a signals or like a waypoint?
15:28:44  <coopserver> <Starbud> a signal
15:29:04  <coopserver> <plonka>
15:29:15  <coopserver> <plonka> made like that with gates and logic trains
15:29:43  <coopserver> <plonka> have you loaded that game up yet?
15:30:13  <coopserver> <Starbud> yes i was looking for it and couldnt find anythin out of the ordinary, i was just looking for the wrong thing
15:30:19  <coopserver> <Starbud> but now i understand
15:30:26  <coopserver> <Starbud> what you meant by a counter
15:30:45  <coopserver> <plonka> over the east side at food pickup i think
15:30:56  <coopserver> <plonka> that logic system counts the number of trains
15:30:59  <coopserver> <Starbud> thought it was something i could place like a waypoint that selected where the trains should go
15:31:14  <coopserver> <plonka> nope
15:31:21  <coopserver> <Starbud> :) got it
15:31:40  <coopserver> <plonka> the logic gates make say 6 trains go through one specific signal
15:31:47  <coopserver> <plonka> after the 6th goes through it
15:31:53  <coopserver> <plonka> that siganl changes to red
15:32:00  <coopserver> <plonka> and another changes to green
15:32:04  <coopserver> <Starbud> works for me
15:32:12  <coopserver> <plonka> making the 7th train go the other way :)
15:32:27  <coopserver> <plonka> it's clever stuff :)
15:32:33  <coopserver> <Starbud> it is
15:32:46  <coopserver> <plonka> it's also why i like playing here
15:32:55  <coopserver> <Starbud> :)
15:32:57  <coopserver> <plonka> some of the stuff that gets built is insne
15:33:19  <coopserver> <plonka> like the hell station on this game
15:33:24  <coopserver> <plonka> click a train
15:33:26  <coopserver> <Starbud> i'd say intelligent stuff are built :)
15:33:30  <coopserver> <plonka> and check the orders
15:33:33  <coopserver> <plonka> herhe yeah
15:33:41  <coopserver> <plonka> like 69 possible orders
15:33:57  <coopserver> <Starbud> yes i saw that
15:34:07  <coopserver> <Starbud> really extensive list
15:34:29  <coopserver> <plonka> somehow with all those orders trains refit to different cargos depending what platform they enter the stations
15:34:50  <coopserver> <plonka> plike platform one is batteries
15:34:54  <coopserver> <Starbud> very well done
15:34:58  <coopserver> <plonka> platform 2 is plastic etc
15:35:03  <coopserver> <plonka> yes
15:35:16  <coopserver> <plonka> it's all radnom what platforms they enter
15:35:22  <coopserver> <plonka> but when they do
15:35:28  <coopserver> <plonka> they know what to refit to
15:35:35  <coopserver> <Starbud> want to hire someone intelligent go here and ask :D
15:35:50  <coopserver> <plonka> haha yes
15:36:32  <coopserver> <Starbud> but is there a chance that some cargo dont get picked up sometimes?
15:36:56  <coopserver> <plonka> nope not really
15:37:02  <coopserver> <plonka> see i will try to explain
15:37:05  <coopserver> <Starbud> oki :)
15:37:30  <coopserver> <plonka> it's starts off with a passenger pickup but that part i don't understand
15:37:48  <coopserver> <plonka> but once it drop them off and refits it heads into the cargo station
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15:38:19  <coopserver> <plonka> the little stations along the route are penalties which makes a train want to turn off track into station
15:38:43  <coopserver> <plonka> but if a train is in there the 2 way signal will be red
15:38:51  <coopserver> <plonka> that stops the train from turning in
15:39:08  <coopserver> <plonka> so it keeps goin along that line until it finds a gap
15:39:16  <coopserver> <plonka> when it turns in
15:39:36  <coopserver> <plonka> depending what turn it takes, it cganes to a certain cargo
15:39:43  <coopserver> <plonka> like i already described
15:39:57  <coopserver> <plonka> but im not sure how it knows what cargo
15:40:12  <coopserver> <plonka> you'd need to ask v or jam for that
15:40:39  <coopserver> <plonka> so the trains just keep running along looking for a space then turning
15:40:52  <coopserver> <plonka> so intheroy all cargo should be collected
15:40:56  <coopserver> <plonka> well most of it
15:40:57  <Hiddenfunstuff> people?
15:41:14  <coopserver> <plonka> hello
15:41:18  <Hiddenfunstuff> o/
15:41:44  <Hiddenfunstuff> Just quick question, how ll,rr mainline should be built so it kinda balances itself out?
15:42:11  <coopserver> <plonka> give choice at the merges to both lines
15:42:14  <coopserver> <plonka> or
15:42:28  <coopserver> <plonka> no wait
15:42:45  <coopserver> <plonka> give choice to both lines at the merges with prio to lines without choice
15:42:48  <coopserver> <plonka> or
15:42:59  <coopserver> <Starbud> hi hidden
15:43:03  <coopserver> <plonka> at the mergers give choice to all merging lines
15:43:05  <Hiddenfunstuff> o/
15:43:09  <coopserver> <plonka> and no prios
15:43:26  <coopserver> <Starbud> i'm at the moment trying to figure it out
15:43:32  <coopserver> <Starbud> got a good idea
15:43:33  <coopserver> <plonka> if you join this game now i can show you
15:43:37  <coopserver> <Starbud> but not finished yet
15:43:52  <Hiddenfunstuff> I'm sitting in singleplayer getting used to the game again after updating from 0.7 to 1.5.1
15:44:22  <Hiddenfunstuff> Got an mainline that is maxed out and now in process of adding more rails going both direction.
15:44:30  <coopserver> <Starbud> why did you play 0.7? :)
15:44:46  <Hiddenfunstuff> Because we forgotten the game on hard drive and just found it recently from there again
15:44:52  <coopserver> <Starbud> how many in with?
15:44:57  <coopserver> <Starbud> width
15:45:10  <coopserver> <Starbud> oh i see
15:45:30  <Hiddenfunstuff> width?
15:45:43  <coopserver> <plonka> think he means number of lines?
15:45:45  <coopserver> <Starbud> i remember one could run tha game faster it hink when on turbo on the earlier versions
15:45:46  <coopserver> <plonka> ll,rr
15:46:02  <Hiddenfunstuff> Just 2 per direction for now.,.
15:46:02  <coopserver> <Starbud> yes how many nuber of lines?
15:46:07  <coopserver> <Starbud> okay
15:46:26  <coopserver> <plonka> the easiet way is
15:46:38  <coopserver> <plonka> im aussumung your junction is 3 way?
15:46:43  <coopserver> <Starbud> i was thinking you had played for 6 years and made 440 lines next to each other :D
15:46:43  <Hiddenfunstuff> 4 way
15:47:09  <coopserver> <plonka> 4 way is way trickier
15:47:26  <coopserver> <plonka> for ll,rr id stick to 3 way until you get the idea
15:47:33  <coopserver> <Starbud> it is
15:47:49  <Hiddenfunstuff> the problem i have is the straight parts..
15:47:54  <Hiddenfunstuff> more than the junctions
15:47:59  <coopserver> <Starbud> that is why i prefer to do designs that i can copy into infinity
15:48:12  <coopserver> <Starbud> scalable designs
15:48:19  <coopserver> <Starbud> :)
15:48:36  <coopserver> <Starbud> but it rwquire magic buldozer
15:48:42  <coopserver> <Starbud> require
15:48:50  <Hiddenfunstuff> every time i expand the mainline sideways with more tracks.. The damn pathfinding still sticks most of the time to 1 track rather than using the another
15:49:48  <coopserver> <plonka> the way to even out load
15:50:00  <coopserver> <plonka> is give merging tracks a split before merge
15:50:10  <coopserver> <plonka> then merge to different tracks
15:51:28  <coopserver> <plonka> if they merge to tracks that don't split
15:51:38  <coopserver> <plonka> give the nonspliting tracks prio
15:51:48  <coopserver> <Starbud> i have been using a solution that spread trains to the first avaliable track even on 16 tracks, but it takes alot of space
15:52:02  <Hiddenfunstuff> space is not a problem
15:52:05  <coopserver> <plonka> if all merging tracks split before merge with choice to different tracks
15:52:10  <coopserver> <plonka> then give non prio
15:52:41  <coopserver> <Starbud> a matrix
15:52:46  <coopserver> <Starbud> sort of
15:53:48  <Hiddenfunstuff> do you have something like that built on the server?
15:53:52  <coopserver> <Starbud> i was thinking of switching electronics when i built it the first time
15:54:09  <coopserver> <plonka> yes everything we build here is built like that
15:54:24  <coopserver> <plonka> if you join this game i will show you
15:54:29  <Hiddenfunstuff> might come and pop up to see how its done
15:54:45  <coopserver> <Starbud> no, but i found an early version i made and put on tt-forums the other day, i'll paste it in the irc channel
15:54:51  <Plonka> type !dl
15:54:57  <Plonka> for correct version
15:55:05  <Plonka> type !newgrf
15:55:13  <Plonka> to get the newgrf pack
15:55:21  <Hiddenfunstuff> I think i got the newgrfs already and the version aswell
15:55:23  <Plonka> type !pw for password
15:55:36  <Plonka> ok sweet :)
15:55:43  <Starbud>
15:55:52  <Hiddenfunstuff> is it the public server?
15:56:01  <Plonka> yeah star bud that's some crazy junction
15:56:19  <Plonka> thats the server name yes
15:56:40  <Hiddenfunstuff> !dl
15:56:40  <coopserver> Hiddenfunstuff: !download lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
15:56:41  <coopserver> Hiddenfunstuff:
15:56:41  <Starbud> no signals at that point
15:57:03  <Starbud> and couldnt do diagonal tracks under bridges back then
15:57:26  <Plonka> that junction is like 8 lines and 8 direction or 16 line 4 way which ever way you look at it
15:57:46  <Hiddenfunstuff> !newgrf
15:58:15  <Plonka>
15:58:21  <Starbud> yes
15:58:23  <Plonka> download from there
15:58:42  <Plonka> there's no choice to the merges though right?
15:58:50  <Starbud> can do a better one today
15:59:06  <Plonka> like inside lane always goes to inside lane?
16:02:17  <Starbud> no choices that's true, that part is done trough a loadbalancer at the merge, the way i'ts working is that the signals are exactly 16 tiles apart and the trains 16 tiles too, that way they never stop unless they make a turn in a junction, later versions have proper signalling waiting for a free slot and caches for each track in the intersection
16:02:47  <Starbud> once on the main system the train should never stop
16:02:56  <Plonka> ok once you've perfected it
16:03:08  <Plonka> you can email the save game to me
16:03:21  <Plonka> i'd like to see it in action
16:03:25  *** Jam35_ is now known as Jam35
16:03:34  <Plonka> hi jam
16:04:08  <Starbud> if it does all trains behind will stop quite fast and they will also start with in a few seconds, all of them :)
16:04:48  <Starbud> i'l try to remember that, i bet i will want to show it :)
16:05:11  <Plonka> yep i can't wait :)
16:05:40  <Plonka> how long did it take you to build?
16:06:46  <Hiddenfunstuff> where that grf pack is supposed to be dumped to?
16:06:47  <Webster> Read the Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - (again, try !grf)
16:07:07  <Plonka> umm
16:07:30  *** Plonka has quit IRC
16:07:36  <Starbud> finishing that idea took 3 days i think, but i used frostregens first copy&paste to build it
16:07:41  *** Plonka has joined #openttdcoop
16:08:12  <Plonka> i think on windows 7 it's document>ottd>newgrf
16:08:22  <Plonka> but don't quote me on that :P
16:08:47  <Starbud> he even helped me making a bigger copybuffer :)
16:09:03  <Hiddenfunstuff> that folder seems to be totally empty
16:09:29  <Plonka> well im almost certain that's where this stuff blelongs
16:09:35  <Plonka> who did star
16:09:44  <Plonka> i closed window by accident
16:09:51  <Plonka> so mi missed your response
16:10:13  <Starbud> hidden, seems i got my version from
16:10:14  <Jam35> newgrf is a good place to put that
16:10:24  <Jam35> all manually added stuff can go there
16:10:37  <Jam35> downloaded content has it's own folder
16:10:55  <Starbud> worked right away, might have downloaded some grfs
16:11:03  <Hiddenfunstuff> content_download/newgrf has zip files that been downloaded from the ingame client
16:11:08  <Jam35> *ingame downloaded
16:11:18  <Hiddenfunstuff> but the /openttd/newgrf is empty
16:11:28  <Jam35> it's the first thing you added
16:11:42  <Plonka> newGRFs are to be placed in  C:\My Documents\newgrf (Windows 95, 98, ME) C:\Documents and Settings\<username>\My Documents\OpenTTD\newgrf (Windows 2000, XP) C:\Users\<username>\Documents\OpenTTD\newgrf (Windows Vista, 7) ~/.openttd/newgrf (Linux, BSD) ~/Documents/OpenTTD/newgrf (OSX)
16:12:42  <Plonka> ^that's why the newgrf pack goes
16:12:53  <Plonka> depending on what is u use
16:13:00  <Plonka> os*
16:13:53  <Hiddenfunstuff> hmph.. doesnt show up ingame
16:14:19  <Plonka> once u put the new grfs in that folder
16:14:28  <Plonka> you should be able to join this server
16:14:45  <Starbud> time for me to make some food
16:14:54  <Plonka> enjoy stabud
16:14:57  <Hiddenfunstuff> I'm missing an toyland2mars one
16:15:31  <Plonka> new grfs wont appear in saved game btw
16:15:47  <Hiddenfunstuff> trying to join the server?
16:15:50  <Plonka> toyland to mars is included in the new grf pack i sent you
16:16:08  <Plonka> go here
16:16:10  <Plonka>
16:16:17  <Plonka> diwnload section
16:16:23  <Plonka> download it
16:16:40  <Plonka> then extract to corect folder
16:16:58  <Plonka> then join server
16:17:33  <Hiddenfunstuff> !pw
16:17:33  <coopserver> Hiddenfunstuff: ndebug
16:17:44  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
16:17:44  <Plonka> !pw
16:17:45  <coopserver> Plonka: ndebug
16:17:47  <coopserver> *** Funstuff has joined
16:17:48  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
16:17:55  <coopserver> <Funstuff> \o/
16:17:58  <coopserver> <plonka> hi funn stuff
16:18:10  <coopserver> <plonka> right then
16:18:11  <coopserver> <Funstuff> RIP fps
16:18:17  <coopserver> <plonka> zoom in
16:18:49  <coopserver> <plonka> open sign list
16:18:55  <coopserver> <plonka> look for !!here
16:19:19  <coopserver> <Funstuff> ok..
16:19:32  <coopserver> <plonka> this junctioned started out as ll,rr
16:19:42  <coopserver> <plonka> now it's more but the principle is the same
16:19:50  <coopserver> <plonka> at that merger
16:20:07  <coopserver> <plonka> see how one set of line come from nw
16:20:14  <coopserver> <plonka> and one comes from se
16:20:19  <coopserver> <plonka> to join togethjer
16:20:38  <coopserver> <plonka> !here the line split
16:21:01  <coopserver> <Funstuff> Oh i see
16:21:19  <coopserver> <plonka> right once the lines split
16:21:25  <coopserver> <plonka> one goes to left track
16:21:31  <coopserver> <plonka> the other goes to right track
16:21:39  <coopserver> <plonka> further up the line
16:21:57  <coopserver> <plonka> because both directions of mergingh lines split
16:22:03  <coopserver> <plonka> you don't need prios
16:22:12  <coopserver> <plonka> because all lines have a choice
16:22:44  <coopserver> <plonka> now look for sign !!here2
16:23:24  <coopserver> <plonka> at this merger only 1 direction of incoming lines split
16:23:54  <coopserver> <plonka> again splits are found at !here
16:24:11  <coopserver> <plonka> but since the other lines don't split
16:24:17  <coopserver> <plonka> they get priority
16:24:55  <coopserver> <plonka> so if a train has no choice but to follow one track give it prioity
16:25:11  <coopserver> <plonka> because the other trains join have a split,  thus a choice
16:25:31  <coopserver> <plonka> they will split up onto different rack as a gap apprears in prioed trains
16:25:53  <coopserver> <plonka> the buissier your lines get
16:26:10  <coopserver> <plonka> the more effective your traffic should split to other lines
16:26:24  <coopserver> <Funstuff> Hmm yeah..
16:26:58  <coopserver> <Funstuff> I usually end up overloading the rails with trains to a point theres a traffic jam from the destination to the loading point
16:27:46  <coopserver> <plonka> once you get the hang of splitting before merging that should go away
16:27:53  <coopserver> <Funstuff> Yeah
16:28:32  <coopserver> <Funstuff> just trying to figure out this priority thing
16:28:35  <coopserver> <plonka> well atleast until you need a 3rd, 4th or 5th line
16:28:57  <coopserver> <plonka> there's verious different ways to build prios
16:29:11  <coopserver> <plonka> but ill show you the simplist one
16:29:19  <coopserver> <plonka> let me find a space
16:29:49  <coopserver> <plonka> ok find !!here 3
16:31:51  <coopserver> <plonka> once a train hist start of prio
16:32:01  <coopserver> <plonka> that entry signal turns red
16:32:32  <coopserver> <plonka> so it stops trains merging in front of it
16:32:57  <coopserver> <plonka> how long your prio needs to be depends on train length and max te
16:33:13  <coopserver> <plonka> good accelerating trains can have shorter prios
16:33:37  <coopserver> <plonka> probably always better to first test with one train length
16:33:47  <coopserver> <plonka> and make longer or shorter as needed
16:33:48  <coopserver> <Funstuff> yeah
16:34:01  <coopserver> <plonka> brb a sec
16:35:49  <coopserver> <plonka> righ im back
16:35:59  <coopserver> <plonka> i'll show u an ll,rr merge
16:36:02  <coopserver> <plonka> with prio
16:40:24  <coopserver> <plonka> there you go
16:40:39  <coopserver> <plonka> #so now the merging line both split
16:40:52  <coopserver> <plonka> the lines they merge to don't
16:40:54  <coopserver> <plonka> split
16:40:58  <coopserver> <plonka> so they get prio
16:41:21  <coopserver> <plonka> a train will hit the split and go one way
16:41:28  <coopserver> <plonka> the next train the next
16:41:39  <coopserver> <plonka> merge with the other splitting line
16:41:48  <coopserver> <plonka> then take turns at join at the prio
16:42:07  <coopserver> <Funstuff> ahaa..
16:42:20  <coopserver> <plonka> trains alway follow path of least resitance
16:42:31  <coopserver> <plonka> so at first it might look like it's not working
16:42:41  <coopserver> <plonka> cos they eep chosing one line
16:42:53  <coopserver> <plonka> but as the lines get busier
16:43:03  <coopserver> <plonka> they start to split more efficently
16:43:19  <coopserver> <plonka> and load the lines up more evenly
16:44:39  <coopserver> <Funstuff> now to adapt this into my situation..
16:45:02  <coopserver> <plonka> for a 4 way junction it will be amazingly hard for you
16:45:09  <coopserver> <plonka> i would start with 3
16:45:21  <coopserver> <Funstuff> It might not be pretty.. But i'll do it
16:45:32  <coopserver> <plonka> once you can do upto llll,rrrr then id try a 4
16:45:42  <coopserver> <plonka> well good luck what ever
16:45:49  <coopserver> <plonka> bring me some screen shots
16:45:58  <coopserver> <Funstuff> perhaps..
16:46:00  <coopserver> <plonka> cos i can't do 4 way junctions
16:46:11  <coopserver> <plonka> we not last time i tried anyway :)
16:46:24  <coopserver> <plonka> ive improved alot since then so maybe i can now
16:46:27  <coopserver> <Funstuff> I got one 6 way junction aswell..
16:46:41  <coopserver> <plonka> ll,rr?
16:46:46  <coopserver> <Funstuff> nah.. single tracks
16:46:58  <coopserver> <plonka> yeah that i could do
16:46:59  <coopserver> <Funstuff> right now the whole mainline is just l,r
16:47:03  <coopserver> <plonka> same with 4 way
16:47:30  <coopserver> <plonka> ok dual mainline it a completely different kettle of fish :)
16:47:38  <coopserver> <Funstuff> yep
16:47:43  <coopserver> <plonka> then even more so for 3,4,5,6 lines etc
16:47:58  <coopserver> <Funstuff> need a dual mainline.. got like half map lenght traffic jam on it
16:48:09  <coopserver> <plonka> lol
16:49:09  <coopserver> <plonka> you should come play here and/or on the wolcome server
16:49:16  <coopserver> <Funstuff> Dont worry.. I been in the edge of insanity many times..
16:49:23  <coopserver> <Funstuff> maybe once i learn to junction
16:49:35  <coopserver> <plonka> everyone here is hopefull and will show you how to junction :P
16:49:42  <coopserver> <Funstuff> my games usually lasts for centuries so..
16:49:48  <coopserver> <Funstuff> not sure how i will do in couple years
16:49:54  <coopserver> <Funstuff> millenias even
16:50:08  <coopserver> <plonka> well this game is 2458 now
16:50:09  <coopserver> <Funstuff> longest game i played was something 8000 years
16:50:13  <coopserver> <plonka> wow
16:50:26  <Hiddenfunstuff> actually might have a screenshot or 2
16:50:32  <coopserver> <plonka> when 10 people all contribute building
16:50:40  <coopserver> <plonka> you don't need 1000's of years
16:51:37  <Hiddenfunstuff> < before i turned off my game..
16:52:00  <Plonka> nice :D
16:52:27  <Hiddenfunstuff> this is what happens when you forgot to turn off the server..
16:53:04  <Plonka> in that game did you transport everything?
16:53:10  <Hiddenfunstuff> about yeah
16:54:00  <Plonka> ok
16:54:03  <Hiddenfunstuff> had there a rrr,lll mainline
16:54:12  <Plonka> ill show u another way of balancing load
16:54:22  <Plonka> yeah i saw
16:54:37  <coopserver> <plonka> go back to !!here 3
16:55:12  <coopserver> <plonka> you ready?
16:55:38  <Hiddenfunstuff> yh
16:55:59  <coopserver> <plonka> ok that 3 platform station i just built
16:56:03  <coopserver> <plonka> imagine it's 9
16:56:13  <coopserver> <plonka> and you have tripple mainline
16:57:01  <coopserver> <Funstuff> isnt that like one of most inefficient station designs?
16:57:10  <coopserver> <plonka> yes
16:57:26  <coopserver> <plonka> im just showing you a simple way how to blance load
16:57:28  <coopserver> <Funstuff> yeah
16:57:35  <coopserver> <plonka> the entry is not the important part
16:57:44  <coopserver> <plonka> the exit is the importtant part
16:57:53  <coopserver> <plonka> if we had more space
16:57:58  <coopserver> <plonka> id show you propperly
16:58:03  <coopserver> <plonka> but we don't seo grr
16:58:24  <coopserver> <plonka> or wait ill show u like this
16:58:51  <coopserver> <plonka> like imagine thats a 9 splatform station
16:58:58  <coopserver> <Funstuff> yeah
16:59:01  <coopserver> <plonka> an every 3 platforms are like that
16:59:12  <coopserver> <plonka> so each mainline has choice to 3 platforms
16:59:15  <coopserver> <Funstuff> yeah
16:59:20  <coopserver> <plonka> when they exit
16:59:22  <coopserver> <Funstuff> thats how i actually build larger stations right now
16:59:26  <coopserver> <plonka> don't give them choice
16:59:28  <coopserver> <plonka> ok
16:59:36  <coopserver> <plonka> so platform one
16:59:43  <coopserver> <plonka> goes to ml exit one
17:00:45  <coopserver> <plonka> so now all trains entering on mainline 1 will split
17:00:55  <coopserver> <plonka> and leave on mainline 1, 2 or 3
17:01:12  <coopserver> <plonka> then connect pltform 4 to mainline exit 1
17:01:21  <coopserver> <plonka> platform 5 to mle2
17:01:30  <coopserver> <plonka> pltform 6 to ml exit 3
17:01:40  <coopserver> <plonka> so gaian all trains entery on ml 2 split
17:01:47  <coopserver> <plonka> and exit on different mainlines
17:01:54  <coopserver> <plonka> add infinitium
17:02:59  <coopserver> <plonka> like so
17:03:14  <coopserver> <Funstuff> I see
17:03:21  <coopserver> <plonka> that will splitthe load on different lines
17:03:22  <coopserver> <Funstuff> A bit different kind exit than i usually use
17:03:48  <coopserver> <Funstuff> when i build large stations, i group them in like 3 or 4 platform groups.. then those groups have their own entry and exit
17:04:02  <coopserver> <Funstuff> wait.. derp
17:04:10  <coopserver> <plonka> and thats why you have some lines full and some expmty
17:04:11  <coopserver> <Funstuff> thats exactly whats in here
17:04:27  <coopserver> <Funstuff> mostly because they enter the single mainline eventually
17:04:33  <coopserver> <plonka> yeah that's because this game is a refit game
17:04:52  <coopserver> <plonka> the more option you build into hubs and station exits
17:05:04  <coopserver> <plonka> the more the load should equalise
17:05:07  <coopserver> <plonka> in theory
17:05:40  <coopserver> <plonka> you're constanlt making trains switch lines to fill in gaps rather than letting them stick to one line
17:05:54  <coopserver> <plonka> = a more equalised load
17:07:44  <coopserver> <Funstuff> now i shall try to work that little.. expansion to the mainline
17:08:09  <coopserver> <plonka> yep good luck
17:08:20  <coopserver> <plonka> and be sure to play here and the welcome server
17:08:26  <coopserver> <plonka> you will learn lots
17:08:27  <coopserver> <plonka> :D
17:08:59  <Hiddenfunstuff> the one addon in welcome server i do not like
17:09:24  <coopserver> <plonka> yeti?
17:09:28  <Hiddenfunstuff> indeed
17:09:36  <Hiddenfunstuff> the damn worker thing ruins it
17:09:49  <coopserver> <plonka> it's not yeti every game
17:09:58  <Hiddenfunstuff> well currently it has it.. i think
17:10:05  <coopserver> <plonka> yep it does
17:10:09  <coopserver> <plonka> i like yeti
17:10:13  <coopserver> <plonka> i didn't at first
17:10:22  <Hiddenfunstuff> well its pain to start the game..
17:10:27  <coopserver> <plonka> but once u learn how to play i think it's awesome
17:10:28  <Hiddenfunstuff> atleast if you even try to haul cargo
17:10:39  <Hiddenfunstuff> gotta start with airplanes or passengers
17:10:53  <coopserver> <plonka> nah you don't
17:11:03  <coopserver> <plonka> you can start with yeti :P
17:11:14  <Hiddenfunstuff> yes you can, but you'll be stuck with really low production rates
17:11:15  <coopserver> <plonka> i fialed at it first couple of times
17:11:36  <coopserver> <plonka> yep
17:11:42  <coopserver> <plonka> untill you get food
17:11:49  <coopserver> <plonka> then building mats
17:11:54  <coopserver> <plonka> then grow your town
17:12:06  <coopserver> <plonka> that's the idea of it i think
17:12:23  <coopserver> <plonka> i think none yeti is too easy
17:12:26  <Hiddenfunstuff> tried the newgrf setup that is in the server in singleplayer.. got pissed off at it in 20 mins and went back to FIRS
17:12:46  <coopserver> <plonka> yep firs is good
17:12:51  <Hiddenfunstuff> yep
17:12:56  <coopserver> <plonka> as is ecs
17:13:00  <Hiddenfunstuff> yep
17:13:47  <Hiddenfunstuff> also block signals seems to be the thing to put on everywhere where you dont use combo signals
17:14:15  <coopserver> <plonka> how'd you mean?
17:14:31  <Hiddenfunstuff> block signals on straight boring runs on the tracks
17:14:37  <Hiddenfunstuff> or is there other signal type you can use
17:14:49  <coopserver> <plonka> nope just block signals
17:14:56  <coopserver> <plonka> some people use pbs
17:15:01  <coopserver> <plonka> but thats stupid
17:15:15  <coopserver> <plonka> it increases cpu load by a massive amount
17:15:17  <Hiddenfunstuff> right now we have path signals.. though i see no problem using them (yet)
17:15:22  <coopserver> <plonka> and offeres nothing
17:15:55  <coopserver> <plonka> trust me path signals where not needed needlessly increases cpu usage
17:16:01  <Hiddenfunstuff> ah
17:16:03  <coopserver> <plonka> by a lot
17:16:15  <Hiddenfunstuff> hmm.. client CPU usage 35%
17:16:25  <Hiddenfunstuff> might use those block signals from now on
17:16:40  <coopserver> <plonka> everytime a trains passes through a block signal it's a simple yes/no
17:16:52  <coopserver> <plonka> for pbs it recalculates the whole route ithink
17:17:06  <coopserver> <plonka> but it might not be a problem offline
17:17:11  <Hiddenfunstuff> probably not
17:17:19  <coopserver> <plonka> but online you could potenial bog down a server
17:17:22  <Hiddenfunstuff> hmm atleast i can build priority lines..
17:17:37  <Hiddenfunstuff> and seems to be working just like it should
17:17:57  <coopserver> <plonka> sweet :)
17:18:39  <coopserver> <plonka> well time for me to go eat
17:18:44  <coopserver> <plonka> be back in a bit
17:18:53  <Jam35> !pw
17:18:53  <coopserver> Jam35: tricky
17:19:00  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
17:19:02  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has joined
17:19:03  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
17:19:14  <coopserver> *** Funstuff has left the game (Leaving)
17:20:18  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has joined company #1
17:28:40  *** Progman has quit IRC
17:29:44  <coopserver> <plonka> oh hi jam
17:29:47  <coopserver> <plonka> fucking great
17:29:51  <coopserver> <plonka> food#'s burnt
17:30:08  <Hiddenfunstuff> sadface
17:30:15  <coopserver> <plonka> :/
17:30:49  <coopserver> <plonka> i think maraxus has broken a junction too :/
17:33:06  <coopserver> <Jam35> hello :))
17:33:14  <coopserver> <Jam35> semi here sorry
17:33:39  <coopserver> <Jam35> which?
17:33:41  <coopserver> <plonka> check !!!here
17:34:04  <coopserver> <plonka> before i had all choice to all with pre sighnals and pbs mixture
17:34:09  <coopserver> <plonka> now it's just pbs
17:34:21  <coopserver> <plonka> but there's gaps of like 12 tiles now
17:34:30  <coopserver> <plonka> before the next train can decide
17:35:11  <coopserver> <Jam35> you can put signals (2 way) at the end of where train would wait
17:35:18  <coopserver> <Jam35> but not beyond
17:35:23  <coopserver> <Jam35> if possible that is
17:36:03  <coopserver> <Jam35> yeah, he's just made several lines share the same choices for space reasons
17:37:38  <coopserver> <Jam35> signals are pretty much best as possible anyway
17:37:49  <Hiddenfunstuff> looking through the wiki for stuff.. Now i understand why you havnt really mastered the 4 ways.. Also the specification "Chaotic" is quite self explaining..
17:38:42  <coopserver> <plonka> i had presignals with further splits down the line
17:38:49  <coopserver> <plonka> so all had chocice to all
17:38:53  <coopserver> <plonka> and it worked
17:39:00  <coopserver> <plonka> im not sure why he changed it
17:39:08  <coopserver> <plonka> but now there's a hge queue
17:39:23  <coopserver> <plonka> anyway foods burnt
17:39:29  <coopserver> <plonka> so im off to mcdonalds
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17:39:34  <coopserver> <plonka> and pick gran up
17:39:38  <coopserver> <plonka> bb later
17:39:58  <coopserver> <Jam35> k bb
17:39:59  <coopserver> <plonka> oh hidden
17:40:06  <coopserver> <plonka> some people he can do 4 way
17:40:15  <coopserver> <plonka> even like llll,rrrr 4 way
17:40:21  <coopserver> <plonka> it's just me who can't :P
17:40:43  <coopserver> <plonka> look in the 4 way junction section on the wiki for some amazing 4 way hubs
17:40:54  <coopserver> <plonka> none of which i built :P
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17:57:08  <Jam35> unless he has 14 companies don't worry
17:57:18  <Jam35> it's not like we will use them up even
17:57:41  <Jam35> wrong channel ^^ :)
18:00:15  <Hiddenfunstuff> hmm.. in dual mainline parts.. should there be lane changers?
18:08:15  <V453000> watup
18:08:30  <V453000> Hiddenfunstuff: yes, anything multitrack will need mergers
18:09:31  <Hiddenfunstuff> yeah,.. just trying to figure out how to make them
18:10:04  <V453000> btw "have not mastered 4way junctions" is not very appropriate or accurate
18:10:33  <Hiddenfunstuff> yeah, noticed it afterwards
18:12:02  <V453000> !pw
18:12:02  <coopserver> V453000: scales
18:12:10  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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18:12:16  <coopserver> <V453000> sup
18:12:26  <coopserver> <V453000> k what a surprise hell borken again
18:12:53  <Hiddenfunstuff> isnt that map quite a hellish already with red sea etc
18:13:05  <coopserver> <V453000> hell is a specific area here :P
18:13:11  <Hiddenfunstuff> ah
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18:25:25  <V453000> ass
18:26:17  <Maraxus> !pw
18:26:17  <coopserver> Maraxus: annual
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18:47:16  <Hiddenfunstuff> One side expanded, now on to the other one.. No idea does the shifters work at all but.. atleast they flashing pretty lights
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19:27:25  <lol> !pw
19:27:25  <coopserver> lol: copper
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19:27:35  <Plonka> can someone pause stable while fellinin joins
19:27:38  <Plonka> plz
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19:27:40  <coopserver> <lol> hi
19:28:01  <Plonka> jam35
19:28:06  <Plonka> hi lol
19:28:09  <coopserver> <lol> hi
19:28:56  <Jam35> helloo
19:29:02  <Jam35> wot
19:29:10  <Plonka> pause stable plz
19:29:16  <Plonka> while fellini joins
19:30:21  <coopserver> <lol> what can i build?
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20:19:24  <Hiddenfunstuff> has anybody come up with way to sort trains by their speed?
20:22:13  <Starbud> i remember someone making trains overtake eachother and therby making some kind of fastlane
20:22:26  <Starbud> not sure where i saw it but i bet it was on the wiki
20:22:44  <Hiddenfunstuff> Now i'm facing that sort problem.. the empty trains which go faster are stuck behind the loaded trains
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20:26:56  <Starbud> the quickfix, need to either have a very powerful engine that quickly goes up to speed
20:27:30  <Starbud> can also have alittel bit of more space behind each trains to cope with it
20:27:40  <Starbud> alittle
20:27:46  <Hiddenfunstuff> hmm
20:28:23  <Hiddenfunstuff> it just bothers me that the empty train is accelerating, stoppping, accelerating, stopping behind the slower train
20:28:32  <Starbud> slowfix is to rebuild the entire network
20:28:45  <Hiddenfunstuff> to?
20:29:03  <Starbud> separating slow and fast trains
20:29:13  <Hiddenfunstuff> Yeah, but how would you separate them
20:29:26  <Hiddenfunstuff> preferably without using waypoints and directing them by the orders
20:30:01  <Starbud> when empty you send them using waypoints trough one set of waypoints, the full onse trough another set of waypoints
20:30:28  <Hiddenfunstuff> .. yeah
20:30:44  <Starbud> i'm not that good with signals, i think that's the thing i lack good skill of
20:34:38  <Starbud> maybe i could figure something out but i dont feel so good and still i need to write some emails
20:34:41  <Starbud> for work'
20:34:53  <Hiddenfunstuff> paperworks a bitch
20:35:15  <Starbud> indeed it is, all paper should be banned :D
20:35:18  <Starbud> or burned
20:35:57  <Hiddenfunstuff> I dont run into much paperwork, But when i do have paper in hand.. it has important details in it
20:36:10  <Hiddenfunstuff> pun not intended
20:45:02  <Starbud> intresting, what type of work do you do?
20:45:25  <Starbud> sounds like you run some big company
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21:06:01  <Hiddenfunstuff> its hard building hubs when you are tired
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