Log for #openttdcoop on 8th November 2015:
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00:01:00  <coopserver> <happy train sport> heem u  doo no   that  train  77  is  stuk
00:01:30  <coopserver> <cha0tics> yeah I know
00:01:35  <coopserver> <happy train sport> k
00:01:36  <coopserver> <dwarf> that's fine
00:01:40  <coopserver> <cha0tics> we've let it run for tests
00:01:48  <coopserver> <happy train sport> ar  k
00:01:55  <coopserver> <cha0tics> now it has to wait for the line to continue
00:02:32  <coopserver> <happy train sport> yer
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00:12:25  <coopserver> <dwarf> hmm, extending my new design to 3-way is harder than i first though
00:12:44  <coopserver> <cha0tics> where?
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00:12:58  <coopserver> <dwarf> near washington dc
00:13:10  <coopserver> <dwarf> have to take a smoke break to think about it
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00:39:03  <coopserver> <dwarf> meh, I don't see now how to do it
00:39:15  <coopserver> <dwarf> it should be possible with a single logic train
00:39:31  <coopserver> <dwarf> I already have a design with two, which is not bad
00:39:44  <coopserver> <dwarf> compared to the old design that needs 6
00:57:15  <coopserver> <cha0tics> hmm, I guess there is no way around 1 not gate
00:57:45  <coopserver> <dwarf> BBH 09 doesn't use not gate
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01:04:26  <coopserver> <cha0tics> that looks promising
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01:06:44  <coopserver> <dwarf> now the wiring
01:07:35  <coopserver> <dwarf> let me finish
01:07:44  <coopserver> <cha0tics> k
01:12:18  <coopserver> <dwarf> need a longer test train
01:12:26  <coopserver> <cha0tics> coming
01:13:34  <coopserver> <cha0tics> is the pbs penalty higher than two way eol?
01:13:49  <coopserver> <dwarf> why does the stupid train go to the other ring?
01:14:16  <coopserver> <cha0tics> reverse logic, let me explain
01:14:45  <coopserver> <cha0tics> put the gate between the tracks and open it when the train passes
01:15:01  <coopserver> <cha0tics> then penalize the circle with backwards pbs
01:19:19  <coopserver> <cha0tics> logic is self blocking
01:19:56  <coopserver> <dwarf> gtg
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02:29:46  <happpy> hi  liq3
02:30:04  <liq3> hello
02:30:13  <happpy> how things
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06:38:42  <Maraxus> !pw
06:38:42  <coopserver> Maraxus: drying
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06:56:18  <dwarf> !pw
06:56:18  <coopserver> dwarf: pragma
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09:32:05  <cha0tics> !pw
09:32:05  <coopserver> cha0tics: spends
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09:36:30  <dwarf> hi chos
09:36:44  <dwarf> sorry, I had to go immediately
09:36:47  <coopserver> <cha0tics> hi, watching your thingy
09:36:52  <coopserver> <cha0tics> no prob
09:37:11  <dwarf> the splitter kinda works but it doesn't switch every time
09:37:34  <dwarf> I made a save, so feel free to do whatever with it
09:37:45  <coopserver> <cha0tics> I'm trying to figure out why. I guess it has to do with sig gaps
09:38:24  <dwarf> it's because the signal changes after the path was already reserved
09:38:47  <dwarf> it can happen in any similar construction, but the pbs makes it worse
09:40:00  <coopserver> <cha0tics> isn't there a way to use block signals there?
09:40:52  <coopserver> <cha0tics> or use a slightly slower logic
09:41:04  <dwarf> no, the problem is that you need signals that detect if the train is in any of 2 rings
09:41:10  <dwarf> and they have to overlap
09:41:28  <dwarf> slower train wouldn't make a difference
09:41:52  <dwarf> it's the same portion of time when the signal changes the train gets stuck
09:45:36  <coopserver> <cha0tics> even though it still get's stuck, I think the slower train is slightly more reliable. But that can be my distorted mind :D
09:45:51  <coopserver> <cha0tics> as it's very subjective without counting
09:46:00  <dwarf> you can try
09:46:12  <coopserver> <cha0tics> I did, hence me saying that
09:46:58  <dwarf> I would expect the faster the train the more reliable, because it moves a considerable distance every tick, so it's less likely that the signal changes between it chooses its path and passes the signal
09:47:09  <dwarf> !pw
09:47:09  <coopserver> dwarf: ensure
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09:47:33  <coopserver> <cha0tics> but it also has 4 times as many chances to get stuck
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09:49:44  <coopserver> <dwarf> it still gets stuck fairly often
09:49:53  <coopserver> <dwarf> anyway, it's time to sleep
09:49:57  <coopserver> <cha0tics> most of the times it weill be past the entry sig, so it will work. the chance of it getting stuck is less
09:50:09  <coopserver> <cha0tics> sleep well, ttyl
09:50:17  <coopserver> <dwarf> bye
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10:49:08  <Jam35> !pw
10:49:08  <coopserver> Jam35: pieces
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10:54:35  <happpy> hi jam
10:54:44  <happpy> how things
10:55:06  <coopserver> <Jam35> ok thanks
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14:57:58  <Maraxus> !pw
14:57:58  <coopserver> Maraxus: future
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16:26:13  <cha0tics> !pw
16:26:13  <coopserver> cha0tics: severe
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16:34:38  <happpy> hi  cha0tics
16:34:43  <happpy> how  things
16:47:50  <Mark> hi
16:48:19  <Mark> !pw
16:48:19  <coopserver> Mark: moment
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16:59:30  <happpy> mark  ther a  new  game  on the  welome   server
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17:13:30  <__Fellini__> !pw
17:13:30  <coopserver> __Fellini__: routed
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17:13:55  <coopserver> <__Fellini__> hello
17:14:24  <happpymoblic> hi
17:14:44  <coopserver> <__Fellini__> o/
17:15:19  <happpymoblic> felling ther a new game start on the welcome  server
17:15:28  <happpymoblic> how  things
17:15:32  <coopserver> <__Fellini__> k
17:15:36  <coopserver> <__Fellini__> good
17:15:40  <coopserver> <__Fellini__> ur ?
17:16:13  <happpymoblic> good  fill free to join if I like on the welcome  server
17:16:27  <coopserver> <__Fellini__> k
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17:34:22  <Sylf> !pw
17:34:22  <coopserver> Sylf: toobar
17:35:04  <Sylf> !pw
17:35:04  <coopserver> Sylf: nibble
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17:39:39  <happpymoblic> hi sylf
17:39:47  <happpymoblic> how things
17:39:55  <coopserver> <Sylf> ok
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18:02:01  <coopserver> <Sylf> ok, bbh4 fixed
18:02:44  <coopserver> <cha0tics> cool, I'm trying to improve dwarf's 2:1 splitter
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19:46:14  <dwarf> !pw
19:46:14  <coopserver> dwarf: steady
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20:34:19  <dwarf> !pw
20:34:19  <coopserver> dwarf: player
20:34:49  <dwarf> !pw
20:34:49  <coopserver> dwarf: before
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20:35:36  <coopserver> <cha0tics> back
20:35:41  <coopserver> <dwarf> hi
20:35:42  <coopserver> <cha0tics> hi dwarf
20:36:02  <coopserver> <dwarf> I've got a new idea for the single train splitter
20:36:21  <coopserver> <cha0tics> I tried your one train with equal distance gaps and all train speeds, all of them lead to the same result
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20:37:11  <coopserver> <cha0tics> ok, ,what's the plan?
20:37:39  <coopserver> <dwarf> I'll use a modified version of the single train 1:1 splitter with a memory
20:49:41  <coopserver> <dwarf> hmm, gotta think this through a bit more
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21:00:13  <cha0tics> !pw
21:00:13  <coopserver> cha0tics: busses
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21:01:04  <coopserver> <cha0tics> ok, that's a 1:1
21:01:48  <coopserver> <dwarf> ehh, my idea was to use the signal memory to remember a train already passed once
21:02:28  <coopserver> <dwarf> but can't figure out how to reset the memory without using a not gate
21:02:46  <coopserver> <cha0tics> what you currently have is a XOR
21:03:50  <coopserver> <dwarf> where?
21:04:04  <coopserver> <cha0tics> the whole thing
21:04:27  <coopserver> <cha0tics> but I just noticed that there can be a deadlock too
21:04:44  <coopserver> <cha0tics> the logic got stuck in front of the entry
21:04:54  <coopserver> <cha0tics> again
21:04:57  <coopserver> <dwarf> yea, this construction does that sometimes too
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21:07:01  <coopserver> <cha0tics> no way without  counter
21:07:53  <coopserver> <dwarf> I'll just build some 1:1 splitters
21:08:36  <coopserver> <cha0tics> wait a sec, take a look
21:08:43  <coopserver> <cha0tics> left of your test
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21:09:12  <coopserver> <dwarf> feel free to change my thing
21:09:49  <coopserver> <cha0tics> can we make use of that and get the train to behave like your 2train 2:1?
21:10:12  <coopserver> <dwarf> hmm, how?
21:10:38  <coopserver> <cha0tics> thats the question ;)
21:10:43  <coopserver> <cha0tics> just brainstorming
21:12:14  <coopserver> <cha0tics> see that?
21:12:43  <coopserver> <dwarf> yes?
21:12:44  <coopserver> <cha0tics> this one could have three states
21:13:49  <coopserver> <cha0tics> circling blue
21:13:55  <coopserver> <cha0tics> wating at red
21:14:01  <coopserver> <cha0tics> circling yellow
21:14:05  <coopserver> <cha0tics> and back
21:14:35  <coopserver> <dwarf> could get something out of that
21:14:56  <coopserver> <dwarf> it's just a pain in the butt to figure out how these trains like to circle
21:34:26  <Mazur> Maybe they prefer square-dancing.
21:34:44  <coopserver> <cha0tics> or line dance, yeah :D
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21:51:40  <coopserver> <dwarf> if we connect brasilia with sidney's ring we can start limited operations
21:51:59  <coopserver> <cha0tics> working on sydney ring atm
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21:52:30  <coopserver> <dwarf> just disable some of the splitters and send trains around vegas, phoenix, brasilia and sidney
21:52:52  <coopserver> <cha0tics> why? are you in a hurry?
21:53:09  <coopserver> <dwarf> yea, I want to see ML trains
21:53:25  <coopserver> <cha0tics> !! HERE is one
21:53:44  <coopserver> <dwarf> I mean actually doing things
21:55:10  <Mazur> If noone has done so already, finish BBH 01 without me, I may be completely skipping this one.
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22:01:35  <coopserver> <dwarf> we already built it maz
22:04:43  <coopserver> *** dwarf has joined company #1
22:04:53  <coopserver> <dwarf> need a hand sylf?
22:05:58  <coopserver> <Sylf> there are other places that need hubs
22:07:29  <coopserver> <Sylf> these are 1:1 splits, so they'll be easy
22:07:45  <coopserver> <dwarf> the one on top should be 1:2
22:08:41  <coopserver> <Sylf> oh well, it's not much different
22:14:35  <Mazur> Thanks, Dwarf…
22:14:47  <coopserver> <dwarf> it was lol actually
22:17:16  <Mazur> Either way.
22:17:34  <Mazur> I'm just currently distracted with something else.
22:18:26  <Mazur> Trying to get a program with perl/GTK2 working without anyone able or willing to help.
22:19:30  <Mazur> And reading my birthday presents.
22:19:58  <coopserver> <dwarf> happy belated birthday!
22:28:25  <Mazur> Tanks.
22:29:09  <happpy> happy   birthday Mazur
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22:41:08  <coopserver> <Sylf> bbh 15 should work, but I haven't fully tested it
22:41:26  <coopserver> <dwarf> looks good
22:42:26  <coopserver> <dwarf> there's a combo sig that should be exit
22:42:34  <coopserver> <dwarf> in the bottom logic
22:43:11  <coopserver> <dwarf> the OR gate in the readout
22:43:26  <coopserver> <dwarf> neat design btw
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22:48:01  <coopserver> <dwarf> ah, well, I fixed it, it should work, I only changed it so it's the same as the other one
22:48:20  <coopserver> <Sylf> ok
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22:58:57  <coopserver> <dwarf> cha0tics, watch out more for zigzags
22:59:22  <coopserver> <dwarf> you can only to one s-bend per 7 tiles, otherwise trains will slow down
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23:00:01  <coopserver> <cha0tics> kk, put a sign up
23:00:10  <coopserver> <cha0tics> I'll fix it soon
23:01:08  <coopserver> <cha0tics> there is still the PBS slow problem
23:01:22  <coopserver> <dwarf> where?
23:01:43  <coopserver> <cha0tics> anywhere, strains stop at PBS before picking a path
23:01:48  <coopserver> <cha0tics> watch #77
23:02:06  <coopserver> <dwarf> ok
23:02:56  <coopserver> <dwarf> nothing happening atm
23:05:17  <coopserver> <dwarf> I caught a misalligned signal, otherwise the logic looks good
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23:05:59  <coopserver> <cha0tics> ok, watch it now. I stopped it
23:06:09  <coopserver> <cha0tics> but watch what happens at every PBS
23:06:31  <coopserver> <dwarf> oh, that issue
23:06:41  <coopserver> *** dwarf has joined company #1
23:08:25  <coopserver> <dwarf> I changed to 2-way exit signals
23:08:46  <coopserver> <dwarf> hmm, still not good
23:09:42  <coopserver> <cha0tics> even on track, whenever it get to a PBS
23:10:03  <coopserver> <dwarf> yea, It's probably a bug of being orderless
23:10:30  <coopserver> <cha0tics> path based signal without a path as the pathfinder has no destination
23:10:56  <coopserver> <dwarf> yea, I would expect 2-way eol to solve it but seems not
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23:21:20  <coopserver> <dwarf> BBH 10 doesn't work properly
23:22:21  <coopserver> <Sylf> it was missing 1 exit signal
23:33:57  <coopserver> <Sylf> the trains without orders always stop in front of path signals
23:34:14  <coopserver> <dwarf> yes, we should avoid using them
23:35:02  <coopserver> <cha0tics> I agree, no more trains without orders :p
23:37:07  <coopserver> <dwarf> it's better not to use presigs when it's a doubled bridge/tunnel on a ML where you don't expect congestion
23:37:29  <coopserver> <dwarf> PF is smart enough so trains go on the free path
23:37:39  <coopserver> <cha0tics> ok, never heard that before
23:38:12  <coopserver> <dwarf> it makes the gap a bit smaller as trains can start entering the split a bit earlier
23:38:30  <coopserver> <dwarf> it doesn't make a huge difference, but it's less clicking to build
23:39:16  <coopserver> <dwarf> there's a terrible CL at the other side of bbh2
23:39:27  <coopserver> <cha0tics> just looking at it
23:41:29  <coopserver> <dwarf> chaos, I also thought of making only a single logic and make it step every time a train passes on any of the two lines
23:41:39  <coopserver> <dwarf> as you did in bb2
23:41:54  <coopserver> <dwarf> but you need to build failsafe for that
23:42:00  <coopserver> <cha0tics> not yet sure if it's fully functional
23:42:35  <coopserver> <dwarf> it's possible a train just chose a way at the split when a train passes on the other line and the signal turs red in front of it
23:42:52  <coopserver> <dwarf> and then it's stuck until another train comes on the other line
23:43:44  <coopserver> <dwarf> also it doesn't seem to work
23:44:14  <coopserver> <dwarf> anyway, I like the idea of a single flipflop for the two lines, but it needs failsafe
23:44:45  <coopserver> <cha0tics> hmm, it worked initially, but I experimented with it and I guess I broke it
23:45:51  <coopserver> <Sylf> hmmm
23:46:03  <coopserver> <Sylf> these trains load/unload much slower than I remembered
23:46:06  <coopserver> *** dwarf has joined spectators
23:46:39  <coopserver> <dwarf> yea, it's quite ridiculously slow
23:46:40  <coopserver> <Sylf> even LAS might be too small
23:46:47  <coopserver> <cha0tics> ok, gotta go for while, bbl
23:47:05  <coopserver> *** cha0tics has joined spectators
23:47:10  <coopserver> <dwarf> that's 14 platforms per line
23:47:28  <coopserver> <dwarf> the other stations are much smaller
23:48:13  <coopserver> *** dwarf has joined company #1
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