Log for #openttdcoop on 16th April 2016:
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07:22:35  <Clockworker>
07:22:41  <Clockworker> boys next doors only
07:31:32  <tyteen4a03> !pw
07:31:32  <coopserver> tyteen4a03: sqblob
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07:32:39  <coopserver> <Mark> oh fuck ive been online again all night
07:32:47  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> \o/
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07:34:18  <Clockworker> !pw
07:34:18  <coopserver> Clockworker: sqblob
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07:36:56  <coopserver> <Clockworker> slowdown in SLH01
07:37:40  <coopserver> <Clockworker> might need a third out maybe
07:37:50  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> it's been like that for a while I think
07:38:03  <coopserver> <Clockworker> it's better now
07:38:10  <coopserver> <Clockworker> now worse again
07:38:11  <coopserver> <Clockworker> haha
07:38:21  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> kind of intermittent
07:38:26  <coopserver> <Clockworker> yeah
07:38:53  <Arveen> !pw
07:38:53  <coopserver> Arveen: demand
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07:38:57  <coopserver> <Clockworker> my hub really needed that 4th out
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07:46:49  <Ethereal_Whisper> Hello!
07:52:40  <Mark> hiyo
07:53:19  <Ethereal_Whisper> Hiya Mark, how's it going?
07:53:49  <Mark> good thanks
07:53:53  <Mark> yourself
07:54:22  <Ethereal_Whisper> Not bad. Just came in here because I'm trying to figure out something that should probably be incredibly obvious as I've only been playing for two days now, but can't seem to figure out.
07:54:50  <Mark> :)
07:54:56  <Mark> im sure we can help
07:55:02  <Ethereal_Whisper> Would you happen to mind having a look?
07:55:07  <Ethereal_Whisper> Well, I might as well.
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07:57:04  <Ethereal_Whisper> so I've got four town here in kind of a T-shape that I want to connect with my LR main line. I don't have much space for a station. I think the proper terminology is that I want a side line each running to a station serving Lowood in the middle there, merging at the station and continuing onwards to Wrungville, then afterwards joining my LR mainline (visible in the picture, the double tracks
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07:59:03  <Mark> yes
08:00:19  <Ethereal_Whisper> Not really for any purpose whatosever, I'm just trying to figure things out in simpler terms since the examples the Wiki uses is often stuff like two LR side lines junctioning with a L_L_R_R mainline
08:03:05  <Mark> so what exactly is the problem? :)
08:03:45  <Mark>
08:03:52  <Mark> you probably need something like that
08:04:17  <Ethereal_Whisper> Well, as you can see, I don't appear to have the space for that
08:04:25  <Clockworker> yes you do
08:04:30  <Clockworker> that's a lot of space there
08:05:19  <Mark> easy :)
08:05:26  <Mark> send me the savegame if you like
08:06:10  <Ethereal_Whisper> I think I see what I should try to do... not merge Plenbourne and Dindham at Lowood, but rather merge Wruningville and Dundham
08:06:26  <Mark> or use a transfer station
08:06:48  <Mark> make a big station at lowood and get trams or local trains to the other towns
08:07:02  <tyteen4a03> are there trams in openttd?
08:07:15  <tyteen4a03> I thought it was a simutrans thing
08:07:15  <Mark> sure
08:07:22  <Mark> just need the right newgrf
08:07:23  <Webster> Read the Quickstart - #openttdcoop wiki - (again, try !grf)
08:07:26  <Mark> such es egrtvs
08:07:38  <tyteen4a03> ah cool
08:10:21  <Ethereal_Whisper> I Think I see what to do now. Sorry if that was a dumb question
08:15:49  <Mark> not at all :)
08:16:30  <Ethereal_Whisper> I Did this. Why was that so fard for me to figure out, is beyond me haha
08:23:42  <Clockworker> hmmm
08:24:03  <Clockworker> looks like your main station in the middle only goes to one side from one track
08:24:11  <Clockworker> and the opposite side from the other track
08:24:36  <Ethereal_Whisper> Yeah, each line has its own platform and is so short I only gave each one a single train
08:24:53  <tyteen4a03> I was imaging a transfer station near the mainline
08:25:00  <tyteen4a03> *imagining
08:25:06  <Clockworker> I mean
08:25:32  <Ethereal_Whisper> I must have misinterpreted the term "transfer station" then. I'm still vey, very new to this game
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08:26:12  <tyteen4a03> no, Luwood Woods is a perfectly fine transfer station, just that one that's on the mainline would probably give you more flexibility
08:26:30  <Clockworker>
08:27:20  <Clockworker> so a train coming from the left won't be able to use the platform on the right
08:27:32  <Clockworker> because the one on the right only accepts a train coming from the right
08:27:39  <Ethereal_Whisper> Oh, I added some diagonal rail afterwards so either train could use either track
08:27:51  <Clockworker> oh huh
08:27:56  <Ethereal_Whisper>
08:27:58  <Clockworker> it's a one way line
08:28:12  <Clockworker> oh no it isn't
08:28:30  <Clockworker> that's not really necessary
08:28:53  <tyteen4a03> I'm confused how Wruningville -> Lowood Woods train work
08:28:54  <Clockworker> just a X in front of the station should work
08:31:28  <Ethereal_Whisper> tyteen4a03: I bulldozed the trees in the way
08:31:41  <Clockworker>
08:31:43  <Ethereal_Whisper> One of the most pointless lines I've ever built lol
08:31:44  <tyteen4a03> there's transparency options
08:31:46  <Clockworker> this would work just fine
08:32:04  <Ethereal_Whisper> Ok cool :)
08:32:22  <coopserver> <Clockworker> notice each side has an entrance and an exit
08:33:19  <tyteen4a03> I was imagining that this would make a bit more sense
08:33:20  <Webster> Title: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet (at
08:33:44  <tyteen4a03> but then if you want to have a terminus in lowood that's fine
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08:34:28  <Ethereal_Whisper> tyteen4a03: that's what I was trying to create initially, I think
08:34:29  <Clockworker> a ro-ro next to the line would be fine too
08:34:35  <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm not sure if I described it the best way
08:35:20  <tyteen4a03> I think what you ended up doing was having Lowood Woods as a terminus station, and have 3 separate lines serving Wrungville, Dindham and beyond
08:36:11  <Clockworker> well I figured he's using lowood woods as a transfer drop
08:36:20  <tyteen4a03> mm
08:36:54  <tyteen4a03> (something like Witham station in real life really)
08:36:59  <Clockworker> it's fun to see these things
08:37:04  <Clockworker> takes me back to the old days
08:37:29  <Clockworker> long before coop autism
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09:48:47  <Ethereal_Whisper> Random curiosity, why is placing block signals every other square on mainlines a good idea? I don't understand why
09:50:39  <dpk> more signals = better than
09:51:30  <dpk> more specifically, if you mean why that distance, i believe it's because it's been Calculated by Scienceā„¢ to produce the least unnecessary stops
09:51:30  <Ethereal_Whisper> I see.
09:51:41  <Ethereal_Whisper> Good answer :P
09:52:17  <dpk> if you mean why block signals, i believe that's because path signals can put a lot of load on the server. but i also see people saying that's a myth
09:52:43  <Ethereal_Whisper> Ah well, I'm only playing single-player. Only noticed lag when I was playing 4096x4096.
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10:24:59  <Jam35>
10:25:19  <Jam35> specifically the stuff about gaps
10:26:16  <Jam35> and yes PBS requires more processing power, make of that what you will
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13:03:06  <damalix> !dl svn
13:03:14  <damalix> !dl
13:03:14  <coopserver> damalix: !download lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
13:03:15  <coopserver> damalix:
13:25:46  <damalix> !password
13:25:46  <coopserver> damalix: begins
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14:21:35  <happpy> hi damalix
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15:07:13  <damalix> hi happy
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15:11:13  <happpy> how things  damalix
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17:06:55  <Ethereal_Whisper> I finally figured out the nuances of block signals. Please don't laugh
17:06:57  <Ethereal_Whisper> Lol
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17:22:00  <Jam35> light is green, track is clean
17:23:36  <Arveen> !players
17:23:36  <coopserver> Arveen: The server is empty, noone is connected. Feel free to remedy this situation
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17:30:59  <damalix> 2140021585*+9/
17:59:39  <Clockworker_> turn on "show reserved track" in the settings
17:59:59  <Clockworker_> it'll help you understand how trains find their path through the blocks
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18:22:42  <Ethereal_Whisper> :O
18:22:50  <Ethereal_Whisper> Thanks for the tip Clockworker_!
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19:16:40  <Ethereal_Whisper> Hm, I messed up my block signal spacing a bit... do I really need to fix it all, and/or is it better to have too many block signals or too few?
19:19:31  <Sylf> on the server?
19:19:51  <Sylf> fixing signals should be really simple with ctrl-drag
19:20:08  <Ethereal_Whisper> Single player. This is only my 4th day playing
19:22:16  <damalix> !players
19:22:16  <coopserver> damalix: The server is empty, noone is connected. Feel free to remedy this situation
19:23:00  <Ethereal_Whisper> I also have another question that's probably an easy answer, I'm just failing to notice something probably
19:23:46  <Ethereal_Whisper> any idea why trains aren't using bays 3 and 4? (Numbering order being from the top downwards)
19:23:58  <Ethereal_Whisper> They're all using bays 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 just fine
19:24:59  <Ethereal_Whisper> (On the other hand I just realized my entry line has two-way entry signals for no reason... fail lol)
19:25:51  <damalix> if you remove other tracks so that trains MUST go to 3&4, do they go ? Do they get struck anywhere ?
19:27:14  <Ethereal_Whisper> Oh, good point to test that. Let's see
19:28:13  <Sylf> You probably have too many platforms for number of trains
19:28:24  <Ethereal_Whisper> Nope, they used bays 3 and 4 when I bulldozed the routes to the other 8.
19:29:06  <Ethereal_Whisper> Well, I'm about to add more traffic to the line, let's see what happens.
19:29:16  <damalix> so the point is probably having too much platforms, when all platforms are full, do they go ?
19:29:37  <damalix> You can use "stop" trains to simulate overcrowded station
19:30:12  <damalix> and see if trains chose platforms 3&4
19:30:14  <Ethereal_Whisper> Oh. Whoops
19:30:53  <Ethereal_Whisper> I'll test an increased traffic load by cloning some trains... easier than building new lines in actually
19:30:58  <Sylf> Oh, the reason those 2 particular platforms are not used:  path finder penalties.
19:31:08  <Sylf> Every bend along the path is a penalty.
19:31:17  <Sylf> Every slope, up and down, are also penalty
19:31:36  <Sylf> Every manhattan distance from current location to the destination is also a penalty
19:31:52  <hylje> but why 3 and 4 in specific
19:31:58  <Sylf> platform 3&4 are further away than platforms 5-10
19:32:13  <damalix> probably theese tracks are just a little bit les attractive to pathfinder
19:32:14  <Sylf> and you can platforms 1&2 don't have slopes to get to them
19:32:32  <Sylf> so platforms 3&4 have the highest path finder penalties
19:33:28  <Ethereal_Whisper> Yeah, I've seen examples of a 10-bay station without the slopes on the entrance lines... though it was a monorail instead of regular trains. Couldn't figure out how to keep the tracks level instead of sloping
19:33:34  <damalix> so if you add slopes to 1&2, trains should go to 3&4 before 1&2
19:34:06  <hylje> Ethereal_Whisper: consider using 4-tile tunnels for all exit tracks
19:34:13  <damalix> use bridges instead of tunnels ?
19:34:32  <Sylf> hylje, I'm not so sure they would
19:34:52  <Sylf> I think they still prefer platform 1&2 more
19:35:03  <Sylf> but will be more willing to take platforms 3&4
19:36:33  <Ethereal_Whisper> damalix: don't bridges just slope upwards first/downwards second, i.e. the converse of tunnels though? I mean, it's 1970 in-game so I don't have access to trains fast enough to make a difference yet, I just prefer tunnels because of no speed limit on them in principle
19:36:59  <hylje> bridges are more flexible with weird landscape topography
19:37:54  <Ethereal_Whisper> Also true, but in thos station's case the land was already flat. I didn't have to do anything to the landscape other than lower terrain to build the tunnels
19:38:00  <Ethereal_Whisper> this* station's
19:38:05  <hylje> but if you use 4 tile tunnels for all exits, the slopes will stagger so that the entries will be level
19:38:30  <damalix> !password
19:38:30  <coopserver> damalix: turned
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19:38:47  <Ethereal_Whisper> hylje: I'll give that a try.
19:41:30  <damalix> @tunnels
19:41:30  <Webster> damalix: (tunnels <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1.
19:41:43  <damalix> @tunnels 3
19:41:43  <Webster> damalix: For Trainlength of 3: <= 9 needs 2, 10 - 14 needs 3, 15 - 19 needs 4.
19:44:24  <Ethereal_Whisper> hylje: that looks like it fixed it. trains are now preferring bays in consecutive order from bay 10 downwards numerically :)
19:44:33  <hylje> yay
19:45:31  <Ethereal_Whisper> But I have so little traffic to the station at the moment that bays 3/4 have only been used once so far, and trains are no longer using bays 1/2, but that means the station is working as intended and can accept a significantly higher capacity for when I expand :)
19:50:54  <hylje> no better engineering than overengineering
19:52:40  <Jam35>
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19:52:51  <Jam35> hopwfully an improvement  :P
19:53:10  <Jam35> with red track showing train waiting zones
19:53:14  <Jam35> (TL4)
19:53:43  <Jam35> and different signalling styles
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19:53:57  <Jam35> presignals vs path
19:54:45  <Jam35> if you stagger the tunnels by one tile they can be one tile apart
19:54:58  <Jam35> to avoid the slopes you mention
20:24:42  <Ethereal_Whisper> Cheers :)
20:25:12  <tyteen4a03> !pw
20:25:12  <coopserver> tyteen4a03: hiding
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21:14:57  <damalix> bbye
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