Log for #openttdcoop on 12th May 2016:
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00:08:35  <BALLR_MEECH> Miss Compuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
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05:40:48  <dwarf> !pw
05:40:48  <coopserver> dwarf: usebit
05:41:20  <dwarf> !pw
05:41:20  <coopserver> dwarf: exited
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06:02:11  <dwarf> !pw
06:02:11  <coopserver> dwarf: refnum
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06:10:14  <dwarf> !pw
06:10:14  <coopserver> dwarf: opened
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06:46:33  <dwarf> !pw
06:46:33  <coopserver> dwarf: detail
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08:37:01  <lol> !pw
08:37:01  <coopserver> lol: couple
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09:04:23  <Ethereal_Whisper> mfw I start building a drop station for grain to a factory and it closes mid-building
09:04:41  <coopserver> <lol> do you have money to build a new one?
09:05:06  <Ethereal_Whisper> Yeah and I did so, but still
09:05:09  <Ethereal_Whisper> That's annoying lol
09:05:18  <coopserver> <lol> i had that 2 days ago too
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09:25:31  <lol> i started with 3rd
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09:56:55  <happpy> !players
09:56:55  <coopserver> happpy: The server is empty, noone is connected. Feel free to remedy this situation
10:04:59  <lol> !pw
10:05:00  <coopserver> lol: values
10:05:09  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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10:07:17  <happpy> hi
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10:50:00  <lol> we got 10k yetis
10:50:34  <happpy> nice
10:51:14  <happpy> need mor trains thrn
10:51:21  <happpy> then
10:51:53  <lol> i made 70 of them
10:52:09  <lol> and build a 3rd over half the outer ring in one direction
10:53:24  <happpy> yep
10:53:48  <happpy> nice
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16:10:20  <Jam35> !pw
16:10:20  <coopserver> Jam35: ludvig
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16:22:14  <lol> !pw
16:22:14  <coopserver> lol: gaelic
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16:22:54  <coopserver> <lol> hey
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16:24:52  <senator> !password
16:24:52  <coopserver> senator: friend
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16:26:22  <coopserver> <Jam35> hihi
16:26:30  <senator> hello
16:26:36  <coopserver> <lol> what do you think of my expansions?
16:27:02  <coopserver> <Jam35> we are not as jammed as yesterday
16:27:07  <coopserver> <Jam35> so I guess they work ok
16:27:11  <coopserver> <lol> thanks
16:27:18  <coopserver> <lol> i build 70 more trains too
16:27:25  <coopserver> <lol> but i think we can build some more
16:27:27  <coopserver> <Jam35> I haven't looked in too much detail
16:27:31  <coopserver> <Jam35> me too
16:27:38  <coopserver> <lol> or you have to come up with track to be expanded
16:28:10  <coopserver> <lol> your bbh03 was hard to expand
16:28:28  <coopserver> <lol> but it was a beautifull hub before i started building
16:28:40  <coopserver> <Jam35> ha
16:28:41  <coopserver> <lol> same holds for msh04
16:28:55  <coopserver> <lol> but that one had some room for extra track
16:28:58  <coopserver> <lol> which was great
16:29:02  <coopserver> <Jam35> BBH 03 had a bad crossing
16:29:11  <coopserver> <Jam35> which I kind of forgot a l;ine
16:29:22  <coopserver> <Jam35> line*
16:29:30  <coopserver> <Jam35> so it was tacked on at the end
16:29:34  <coopserver> <lol> do you see the sign a i build there
16:29:40  <coopserver> <lol> that is a bad construction i made
16:30:07  <coopserver> <Jam35> seems pretty neat
16:30:33  <coopserver> <Jam35> yes there is no room to make the 90 degree turn in the centre
16:30:36  <coopserver> <Jam35> bad design
16:33:02  <senator> the trains refit automatically inside the depot?
16:33:11  <coopserver> <Jam35> depot
16:33:58  <senator> what is this wizardry?
16:34:21  <lol> what wizardry?
16:34:33  <senator> the auto refit
16:34:42  <coopserver> <lol> it is in the orders
16:34:54  <coopserver> <lol> if you put a depot in the orders you can make the train refit
16:35:04  <coopserver> <lol> if the train has refit wagons
16:35:16  <coopserver> <lol> and the wagons we use now can refit to all cargo
16:35:27  <senator> ah, I see
16:35:49  <coopserver> <lol> slh is a hard one to expand
16:36:23  <coopserver> <Jam35> ocd wants me to not have that loop
16:36:32  <coopserver> <lol> in bbh 03?
16:36:38  <coopserver> <Jam35> SLH 04
16:36:46  <coopserver> <lol> you can make a reverser
16:37:26  <coopserver> <Jam35> no just don't enter the SL in that direction
16:37:39  <coopserver> <Jam35> more parallel but move ML a bit
16:37:55  <coopserver> <Jam35> but you already did that
16:38:01  <coopserver> <Jam35> I didn't notice
16:39:55  <coopserver> <lol> do you like this?
16:40:15  <coopserver> <lol> how is your ocd doing now?
16:40:26  <coopserver> <Jam35> yeah that is better
16:40:28  <coopserver> <Jam35> but
16:40:41  <coopserver> <Jam35> we could bridge the SL entry instead
16:40:43  <coopserver> <Jam35> :)
16:40:46  <coopserver> <Jam35> it doesn't matter
16:41:19  <coopserver> <Jam35> different people, different styles
16:42:12  <coopserver> <lol> i just continued on the existing hub
16:48:30  <coopserver> <lol> is that the temp end of 3rd?
16:48:37  <coopserver> <Jam35> ye
16:48:51  <coopserver> <lol> i know a slightly better way
16:48:55  <coopserver> <Jam35> removed other end
16:49:04  <coopserver> <Jam35> it is super temp
16:49:08  <coopserver> <lol> never mind
16:49:33  <coopserver> <Jam35> fodd brb
16:49:41  <coopserver> <Jam35> or even food
16:49:45  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has joined spectators
16:51:14  <senator> is the server laggy for anybody else?
16:51:25  <coopserver> <lol> not really for me
16:51:29  <coopserver> <lol> only when i zoom a lot
16:51:36  <senator> weird
16:51:53  <senator> sometimes it will stay up to 7 seconds without receiving data
16:53:00  <coopserver> <Jam35> that is usually pc speed
16:53:23  <senator> may be
16:53:33  <senator> there is a lot going on here
16:53:34  <coopserver> <Jam35> where are you in the world?
16:53:40  <senator> brazil
16:53:47  <coopserver> <Jam35> long distance too
16:53:58  <senator> where is the server?
16:54:03  <coopserver> <Jam35> server is central europe
16:54:10  <senator> hmm
16:54:20  <coopserver> <Jam35> NL i think
16:54:26  <coopserver> <Jam35> maybe Germany
16:54:35  <coopserver> <lol> stupic europeans
16:54:40  <coopserver> <Jam35> heh
16:54:47  <senator> found the american
17:00:03  <lol> @gap 3
17:00:03  <Webster> lol: For Trainlength of 3: <= 9 needs 2, 10 - 14 needs 3, 15 - 19 needs 4.
17:01:14  <lol> @cl 2
17:01:14  <Webster> lol: (cl <no arguments>) -- Returns full name and reference url (if defined)
17:01:23  <coopserver> <Jam35> 3
17:01:28  <coopserver> <Jam35> do this
17:01:31  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has joined company #1
17:01:49  <coopserver> <lol> pbs for life;)
17:02:06  <coopserver> <Jam35> might work :D
17:02:07  <coopserver> <lol> with this bridges we made the hub even harder to expand then it was
17:02:22  <coopserver> <Jam35> I thought you would be disappointed
17:02:23  <coopserver> <lol> maybe that a line outside is easier for further expanding
17:02:30  <coopserver> <Jam35> max bridge is 12
17:02:48  <coopserver> <lol> 14
17:02:57  <coopserver> <lol> you have to count the tiles in front too
17:02:58  <coopserver> <Jam35> oh really?
17:03:22  <coopserver> <Jam35> setting says 12 but yes
17:03:34  <coopserver> <Jam35> cannot change online
17:03:47  <coopserver> <lol> what settings?
17:03:53  <coopserver> <Jam35> max bridge
17:04:05  <coopserver> <lol> max bridge is 12 indeed
17:04:09  <coopserver> <lol> but the gap is 14
17:05:11  <coopserver> <Jam35> I didn;t count or measure I just saw you ask for gap :)
17:07:17  <Maraxus> !pw
17:07:17  <coopserver> Maraxus: scaled
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17:09:04  <coopserver> <lol> we already got difficulties from that bridge
17:09:25  <coopserver> <Jam35> er which?
17:09:39  <coopserver> <Jam35> oh that :)
17:10:02  <coopserver> <Jam35> not sure it's the bridges fault?
17:10:05  <BALLR_MEECH> boSS JAM
17:10:21  <coopserver> <Jam35> minionMeech
17:10:31  <coopserver> <lol> me neither
17:10:46  <coopserver> <lol> but it sounds better then to say it is my fault
17:10:50  <coopserver> <Jam35> hah
17:17:50  <coopserver> <lol> great
17:18:36  <coopserver> <lol> i don't think we have to expand the balancer from steel to the yetiyard
17:18:43  <coopserver> <lol> that line is rarely used
17:19:13  <coopserver> *** lol has joined spectators
17:19:20  <coopserver> <lol> afk for a few minutes
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17:22:36  <coopserver> <lol> trains are coming in flows a lot
17:23:35  <coopserver> <Jam35> yes that is weird
17:23:45  <coopserver> <lol> i think it is the same effect as busses have
17:23:47  <coopserver> <Jam35> because of the slow rate in adding
17:23:58  <coopserver> <lol> first trains have a lot of cargo to load
17:24:08  <coopserver> <lol> but the last ones have nothing left
17:24:13  <coopserver> <lol> so a shorter loading time
17:24:19  <coopserver> <lol> and keeping the wave intact
17:25:22  <coopserver> <Jam35> and I think some stations can't handle large wave
17:25:31  <coopserver> <Jam35> so they get bunched up there too
17:25:46  <coopserver> <lol> yeah
17:25:54  <coopserver> <Jam35> 3B is one
17:26:09  <coopserver> <Jam35> idk if that matters actually
17:26:30  <coopserver> <Jam35> not too much
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17:27:07  <coopserver> <Jam35> it is a jamand slow to disperse
17:27:40  <coopserver> <lol> that one needs some expansion
17:27:47  <coopserver> <lol> further from the ML
17:27:55  <coopserver> <Jam35> yes
17:27:58  <coopserver> <lol> i'm suprised by how 3C is doing
17:28:43  <coopserver> <Jam35> I like it
17:28:50  <coopserver> <lol> thanks
17:28:53  <coopserver> <lol> it isn't expandable
17:29:00  <coopserver> <lol> but fun to build/see
17:29:10  <coopserver> <Jam35> only because it tries to be different :)
17:29:26  <coopserver> <Jam35> and works fine
17:30:05  <coopserver> <Jam35> I gtg couple of hours
17:30:11  <coopserver> <Jam35> maybe cya llater
17:30:17  <coopserver> <lol> i quit too for today i think
17:30:26  <coopserver> <lol> build quite a lot of 3rd line already
17:30:27  <coopserver> <Jam35> k bfn
17:30:29  <coopserver> <Jam35> yes
17:30:35  <coopserver> <lol> bye
17:30:36  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has joined spectators
17:30:37  <coopserver> <Jam35> bb
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18:33:25  <sietse> !pw
18:33:25  <coopserver> sietse: faster
18:33:28  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
18:33:33  <coopserver> *** Player has joined
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18:33:41  <coopserver> <Player> !name sietse
18:33:42  <coopserver> *** Player has changed his/her name to sietse
18:33:48  <sietse> !players
18:33:48  <coopserver> sietse: There are currently 0 players and 2 spectators, making a total of 2 clients connected
18:45:30  <coopserver> <Jam35> !name Jam34
18:45:31  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has changed his/her name to Jam34
18:46:07  <coopserver> *** Jam34 has changed his/her name to Jam_36
18:46:13  <coopserver> *** Jam_36 has changed his/her name to Jam_35
18:46:21  <coopserver> *** Jam_35 has changed his/her name to Jam35
18:46:27  <Jam35> yes
18:46:40  <Jam35> in console: set client_name x
18:46:43  <sietse> struggling with numbers? :)
18:46:49  <Jam35> writes the setting
18:46:55  <Jam35> in .cfg
18:46:59  <Jam35> !name does not
18:47:12  <Jam35> doing !name x does not
18:47:32  <coopserver> *** sietse has changed his/her name to 'Sietse'
18:48:19  <Jam35> or at least if I use !name then view the setting it has not changed
18:49:03  <sietse> I did lately changed it in the cfg file but it was not picked up
18:49:51  <sietse> just checked the cfg but it isn't saved
18:49:55  <barnex> so what is #openttdcoop.stable and why would I be there?
18:50:00  <sietse> maybe on closing the client it will
18:50:07  <Taede> make sure openttd is not running before you edit the file
18:50:19  <Taede> otherwise openttd will overwrite your changes when it shuts down
18:50:22  <barnex> Is it a channel for the welcome server?
18:50:33  <Jam35> yes barnex
18:50:34  <Taede> barnex, yes
18:50:38  <barnex> oh
18:50:51  <barnex> must have added it to autojoin at some point, thanks
18:53:46  <sietse> someone removed trains or does it just seems more quiet?
18:55:57  <barnex> !dl linux
18:55:59  <barnex> !help
18:56:00  <coopserver> barnex:
18:56:23  <barnex> !revision
18:56:23  <coopserver> barnex: Game version is r27534. Use Download <os-version> to get a direct download link.
18:56:29  <barnex> !download linux
18:56:41  <Taede> !dl lin
18:56:41  <coopserver> Taede:
18:56:45  <Taede> !dl lin64
18:56:45  <coopserver> Taede:
18:56:50  <barnex> thanks
18:59:18  <barnex> !pw
18:59:18  <coopserver> barnex: statfs
18:59:26  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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19:04:00  <barnex> ouch
19:04:08  <barnex> that's some complex stuff
19:04:40  <Jam35> trains are more Sietse
19:04:49  <Jam35> as are number of lines
19:04:59  <V453000> sup humenz
19:05:08  <coopserver> <Jam35> hi V
19:05:14  <V453000> how u doin
19:05:21  <coopserver> <Jam35> alright
19:05:31  <sietse> we is robotz
19:05:38  <V453000> grate
19:06:18  <barnex> 47 order trains ;o
19:07:43  <coopserver> <Jam35> quite glad I didn't have to do that
19:07:52  <coopserver> <Jam35> Dwarf did well :)
19:08:17  <barnex> trying to understand the plan for now
19:08:34  <barnex> "1 for A1A-C, 1 for 2A-C 1 for 3A-C
19:08:39  <barnex> any idea what would that mean?
19:08:46  <coopserver> <Jam35> no empty trains
19:08:49  <coopserver> <Jam35> in a nutshell
19:08:52  <barnex> that part I got yeah
19:08:55  <coopserver> <Jam35> 3 groups of trains
19:09:09  <coopserver> <Jam35> 1 for each of the groups of industries
19:09:17  <barnex> meaning 1,2,3 or A,B,C?
19:09:17  <coopserver> <Jam35> check the industry chains
19:09:37  <coopserver> <Jam35> yeti industries have that prefix
19:09:49  <coopserver> <Jam35> 1A 1B 1C etc
19:12:36  <barnex> I see
19:12:42  <barnex> trying to understand logic behind those names
19:12:45  <barnex> those prefixes
19:13:22  <barnex> and failing looking at conceptual scheme v.6
19:13:31  <coopserver> <Jam35> 1A 1B 1C are primary and go to 1X
19:13:46  <barnex> o ok
19:13:49  <coopserver> <Jam35> same for 2A 2B 2C fot to 2X
19:13:53  <barnex> and then 3* > 3** > 3X
19:13:54  <coopserver> <Jam35> * go to
19:13:59  <coopserver> <Jam35> exactly
19:14:31  <barnex> heh
19:14:35  <barnex> YETI seems cool
19:14:46  <coopserver> <Jam35> not bad :)
19:16:13  <coopserver> <Jam35> this is a new version with different settings
19:16:27  <coopserver> <Jam35> here we have 'tired yeti' setting
19:16:42  <barnex> I see
19:16:49  <coopserver> <Jam35> additional cargo that returns to yeti yard
19:17:06  <coopserver> <Jam35> and affects production there
19:17:21  <V453000> :>
19:17:23  <coopserver> <Jam35> so we can refit everywhere
19:17:29  <barnex> how does this work though?
19:17:30  <coopserver> <Jam35> and have no empties
19:17:35  <coopserver> <Jam35> in theory
19:17:35  <barnex> do you make yetis out of tired yetis?
19:17:44  <barnex> can you run out of yetis if you don't recycle tired ones?
19:17:44  <V453000> yez
19:18:03  <V453000> ah
19:18:06  <V453000> hm probably not
19:18:13  <V453000> they should be just a bonus
19:18:21  <V453000> also, there is some monthly production of yetis
19:18:28  <coopserver> <Jam35> I think there is a minimum production?
19:18:30  <V453000> so you can't ever have a deadlock situation
19:18:30  <coopserver> <Jam35> yes
19:18:31  <V453000> yes
19:20:04  <coopserver> <Jam35> click on the yeti yards in use for a little more info
19:20:18  <coopserver> <Jam35> numbers I mean
19:21:13  <barnex> so
19:21:25  <barnex> seems like there are very little actual industries connected
19:21:36  <barnex> but we get high cargo quantities because of the glorious feedback loops?
19:22:25  <coopserver> <Jam35> one of each except 3 yeti yards
19:22:28  <coopserver> <Jam35> and yes
19:22:38  <coopserver> <Jam35> until we max out the yards
19:22:49  <coopserver> <Jam35>  everything will increase in theory
19:22:58  <barnex> mhm
19:23:04  <coopserver> <Jam35> unless there is netowrk problem  or such
19:23:19  <barnex> are there some rules in yeti, that cargo should come in at the same time, kind of like in FIRS?
19:23:28  <coopserver> <Jam35> no
19:23:34  <barnex> ;o
19:23:37  <coopserver> <Jam35> but some do nothing
19:23:39  <barnex> YETI is so cool
19:23:42  <coopserver> <Jam35> without otheres
19:23:50  <barnex> I wish there were more servers running it
19:23:54  <coopserver> <Jam35> building materials
19:24:07  <coopserver> <Jam35> I think reddit do some games
19:24:17  <barnex> Jam35: oh yeah, sure. Just wondering if those damn feeders are an issue that needs to be taken into consideration
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19:24:45  <barnex> and what do you mean by maxing out the yards?
19:24:47  <V453000> reddit doesn't use it anymore I think, nobody played it there
19:24:55  <barnex> seems like you get 75% of your yetis back as tired
19:24:57  <Jam35> hm
19:25:03  <barnex> and each tired yeti can make 4 new ones?
19:25:07  <Jam35> there is a max production
19:25:21  <Jam35> something like 2295 units per tile?
19:25:25  <Jam35> so 4x2295
19:25:28  <barnex> oh ok, so at some point the tired yeties will just stockpile
19:25:36  <Jam35> @calc 4x2295
19:25:37  <barnex> and the yard wouldn't be able to keep up making new ones?
19:25:43  <Jam35> @calc 4*2295
19:25:43  <Webster> Jam35: 9180
19:26:03  <Jam35> it just won't increase production
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19:26:06  <V453000> all industries of yeti consume 10% of the stockpile per production tick (idk how many of these are per month)
19:26:14  <Jam35> will stay capped at that number
19:26:19  <V453000> but simply, the more you deliver the more gets consumed
19:26:40  <V453000> and yeah 9180 is the technical maximum of one worker yard
19:27:18  <barnex> and NUTS has only universal wagons now, or is this a setting as well?
19:27:39  <V453000> setting
19:27:58  <V453000> but there is no point in using the other types ... except some extreme edge case hacks with FIRS refit
19:29:15  <barnex> hm
19:29:29  <barnex> found a train that seems to be wrong
19:29:51  <barnex> or maybe not ;o
19:30:10  <barnex> I guess it was just full and tried to pick up some more tired yetis
19:30:53  <barnex> or no, actually it went to 1A-Pick up for no reason other than refitting to uranium
19:31:41  <barnex> plenty of trains actually go through 1A when they want to go to 3C
19:32:01  <V453000> !pw
19:32:01  <coopserver> V453000: tropic
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19:32:19  <coopserver> <V453000> evening
19:32:25  <coopserver> <barnex> hey
19:33:20  <coopserver> <V453000> anyway, reasons why almost no servers ever use YETI are simple ...1. huge filesize, 2. hating on 32bpp, 3. NOT REALISTIC, 4. playing yeti requires actually being able to build a stable network, 5. graphics are rather funny instead of attempting to be serious
19:33:47  <coopserver> <V453000> I have been at a novapolis event once, they had like a YETI tournament
19:33:59  <coopserver> <V453000> was more interesting than general game with original industries :)
19:34:42  <coopserver> <barnex> yep, some trains go through 1A heading to 3C drop
19:34:47  <coopserver> <Jam35> barnex can you sign it if it seems wrong
19:34:49  <coopserver> <V453000> 6. the graphics aren't that good :D
19:34:54  <coopserver> <Jam35> will have a look later
19:35:10  <coopserver> <V453000> if YETI was a commercial project, you could say it is as bad as it can get :)
19:35:15  <coopserver> <Jam35> or dwarf will :P
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19:36:12  <coopserver> <Jam35> I don't think it's as bas as you say
19:36:35  <coopserver> <Jam35> or even bad at all
19:36:37  <coopserver> <V453000> in terms of attempting to appeal to a large audience, it is
19:36:38  <barnex> meh I like the graphics
19:36:58  <coopserver> <Jam35> me too, I am not here for any realism
19:37:03  <coopserver> <V453000> luckily the aim never was to appeal to a large audience :P
19:37:06  <barnex> I don't get how FIRS appeals to the large audience though
19:37:08  <barnex> like
19:37:18  <barnex> most players can't even properly build in base game
19:37:25  <barnex> and FIRS is supercomplex
19:37:32  <coopserver> <V453000> FIRS doesn't really punish you for anything, you can build badly
19:37:51  <coopserver> <V453000> the complexity is just in industry amount, but functionally you do still the same
19:37:55  <barnex> hm
19:38:03  <coopserver> <V453000> in fact, with that many stations most people never get to need to expand their network
19:38:03  <barnex> how is YETI punishing you?
19:38:24  <coopserver> <V453000> since YETI is a closed loop, whenever one thing jams, production everywhere goes down
19:38:31  <coopserver> <V453000> you can see pretty interesting graphs with yeti :D
19:38:44  <barnex> well, isn't FIRS a closed loop with all the feedbacks going on?
19:38:50  <barnex> I mean, you have different feedbacks
19:38:52  <coopserver> <V453000> not really
19:38:57  <barnex> so if your engineering supplies stop
19:39:00  <barnex> you still have farming supplies
19:39:02  <barnex> but still
19:39:11  <coopserver> <V453000> yeah, sure, but it's not as brutal, and takes longer to make a difference
19:39:18  <coopserver> <V453000> YETI difference is much bigger, and more dynamic
19:39:59  <coopserver> <V453000> but FIRS is nice, I don't say it is bad at all :)
19:40:19  <coopserver> <V453000> just a different approach
19:40:22  <barnex> oh ok
19:40:30  <barnex> cause in YETI if you don't supply yetis
19:40:34  <barnex> you get no production at all
19:40:37  <coopserver> <V453000> yes
19:40:42  <barnex> so if you don't have enough platforms for yeti dudes
19:40:45  <barnex> you fucked up
19:41:07  <coopserver> <V453000> well in general, anything can deadlock anything, if some place at the network fucks up, yetis dont get their food and you lose the production
19:41:08  <barnex> dunno, I somehow can't really get into FIRS
19:41:11  <coopserver> <V453000> and it takes time to build it up again
19:41:12  <barnex> because there's so much stuff
19:41:21  <coopserver> <V453000> that's the thing
19:41:22  <barnex> and chains aren't organized in neat loops
19:41:24  <barnex> like
19:41:35  <coopserver> <V453000> especially with slower engines, building up the production with YETI is something to care about
19:41:37  <barnex> on reddit's s3 there are no loops at all I believe
19:41:46  <coopserver> <V453000> if it drops, you need to re-stabilize it
19:41:47  <barnex> one thing requires engie supplies and ends up making farming supplies
19:42:02  <barnex> and then you have to use the farm supplies to make engie supplies
19:42:08  <coopserver> <V453000> yeah, FIRS is huge but reddit probably uses the full FIRS, playing the smaller economies is less painful
19:42:09  <barnex> and you're ending up with a giant loop
19:42:22  <coopserver> <V453000> at least to start with
19:42:25  <barnex> V453000: actually no, reddit uses the most annoying subset
19:42:31  <coopserver> <V453000> which one?
19:42:34  <barnex> I believe in full FIRS there are some small closed loops
19:42:46  <coopserver> <V453000> oh, alright
19:42:53  <barnex> none on reddit's s3
19:42:59  <coopserver> <V453000> honestly I haven't played FIRS in almost 2 years
19:43:11  <coopserver> <V453000> and the economies are changing a lot lately
19:43:12  <barnex> I believe oil and iron or copper can be looped after 3 or 4 industries
19:43:16  <coopserver> <V453000> so I don't follow 100% there
19:43:21  <barnex> maybe what I'm saying isn't current as well
19:43:26  <coopserver> <V453000> heh, yeah that was always the case
19:43:26  <barnex> like I said, never properly got into firs
19:43:32  <coopserver> <V453000> and actually one of the hugest flaws in FIRS
19:43:45  <coopserver> <V453000> it had shitload of cargoes, but all that mattered was cargoes which make petrol and steel
19:43:54  <coopserver> <V453000> rest was useless because it couldn't self-reproduce
19:44:18  <coopserver> <V453000> some of that should be fixed in most economies I think, but yeah, would have to investigate
19:44:22  <barnex> well, it sort of can if you can manage the loop of 12 industries :P
19:44:22  <coopserver> <V453000> and no time for that :)
19:44:37  <barnex> also the fucking fish
19:44:46  <coopserver> <V453000> mhm :)
19:44:51  <barnex> which are the most profitable early game I believe
19:44:55  <barnex> and require dumb ships :P
19:44:57  <barnex> also
19:44:59  <barnex> the feeders
19:45:02  <coopserver> <V453000> they might be yes
19:45:14  <barnex> somehow I don't get how firs is as popular as it is
19:45:15  <coopserver> <V453000> feeders aren't mandatory, but I get your point :)
19:45:40  <coopserver> <V453000> I do understand it, it is the only functional set which is somewhat resembling of realism
19:45:48  <coopserver> <V453000> ECS is shitborked
19:46:08  <barnex> BTW, since you probably know
19:46:10  <coopserver> <V453000> and pikka basic industries have brutal limitations like industries forced to die when they run out of things etc
19:46:23  <barnex> is feeders in FIRS just lazy coding, or did they want it that way?
19:46:35  <coopserver> <V453000> what do you mean by that?
19:46:43  <barnex> well, judging by what YETI does
19:46:45  <coopserver> <V453000> as feeders I understand re-transferring supplies
19:46:55  <coopserver> <V453000> or you mean the supply mechanic in general?
19:47:23  <barnex> I mean the fact that you have to manage your engineering/farming/manufacturing supplies cause if you just deliver them all at once they tend to be wasted after some months
19:47:27  <barnex> judging by YETI
19:47:38  <barnex> they could just stay at the factory and wait for them to be used
19:47:55  <barnex> instead of disappearing on delivery
19:47:56  <coopserver> <V453000> well, it is specific to the production mechanism in the code that FIRS uses, that is true
19:48:08  <coopserver> <V453000> but at the same time it is sort of interesting gameplay wise
19:48:15  <barnex> which well, if it was a choice I feel like it was a weird one
19:48:17  <coopserver> <V453000> motivates more spreading instead of boosting one industry
19:48:46  <barnex> yeah it does, but that spreading, it's so hard :D
19:48:49  <coopserver> <V453000> yeah, I get your point :) well :)
19:49:05  <coopserver> <V453000> yeah, spreading is interesting, it can be solved by multiple logistic approaches
19:49:12  <barnex> sure
19:49:13  <barnex> just
19:49:22  <barnex> there might be like 30 people on the planet
19:49:31  <coopserver> <V453000> I do see that as a bonus tbh, not that I prefer the mechanism FIRS uses over YETI, I believe our code is vastly superior in that regard, but it's not directly just bad
19:49:33  <barnex> that have enough raw skill to be interested in it :P
19:49:46  <barnex> and rest is scrubs like me, who maybe can be sort of useful in coop game
19:49:56  <barnex> and then there are people who build 90° turns roundabouts everywhere
19:49:58  <coopserver> <V453000> well that thing is true, but some people enjoy making the train-> road vehicle transfer, having road vehicles redistribute the supplies
19:50:10  <coopserver> <V453000> it reminds them of realism and it is apparently fun to them to build
19:50:17  <coopserver> <V453000> because it has no complexity, it is just cute shit
19:51:05  <coopserver> <V453000> but yeah, it adds some demand for interesting solutions, more complex or less
19:51:09  <barnex> heh
19:51:10  <coopserver> <V453000> which I appreciate a lot.
19:51:21  <barnex> I should try getting into firs again
19:51:25  <barnex> tried yesterday
19:51:25  <coopserver> <V453000> YETI applies this at the worker yards pretty much
19:51:29  <barnex> started with a fish line
19:51:34  <barnex> fish harbour closed down
19:51:36  <barnex> ragequit
19:51:46  <coopserver> <V453000> oh well :)
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19:52:13  <coopserver> <V453000> actually one of the first ideas that made me make YETI, was to have industries interconnected and dependent on towns
19:52:21  <coopserver> <V453000> which wasn't done until the latest version of YETI
19:52:30  <coopserver> <V453000> and that is in my opinion excellent :)
19:52:46  <coopserver> <V453000> it is in the YETI modes where you deliver passengers/mail to the worker yards to increase production
19:53:12  <coopserver> <V453000> we should have a coop game on that someday
19:54:25  <coopserver> <V453000> the length of the ML at the south without any hubs is offputting :D
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