Log for #openttdcoop on 17th May 2016:
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03:14:51  <j992> !pass
03:15:01  <j992> !password
03:15:01  <coopserver> j992: deeper
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03:15:49  <Double_Ded_MEECH> yo
03:16:08  <j992> hello
03:16:29  <Double_Ded_MEECH> hey
03:21:47  <j992> see ya
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05:03:53  <Ethereal_Whisper> imagine if this were a real station with 11 platforms
05:04:04  <Ethereal_Whisper> Luckily the game lets me logically divide it into 5 stations
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05:37:15  <Arveen> !pw
05:37:15  <coopserver> Arveen: sloped
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05:47:18  <Ethereal_Whisper> I ended up with some quad track even though I designed my network around double
05:47:21  <Ethereal_Whisper> It was just like
05:47:33  <Ethereal_Whisper> "I don't need to merge these lines, but they'll run next to each other anyway"
06:20:38  <happpy> hi ethereal whisper
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07:01:47  <Ethereal_Whisper> Hi happpy
07:01:57  <Ethereal_Whisper> So I have some advanced question help
07:02:09  <Ethereal_Whisper> And you'll probably respond by making fun of my low-capacity spur network
07:03:15  <Ethereal_Whisper> so I have a spur network for farming supplies only with, as you can see, blocking junctions using one-way signals since the line's so low capacity and I need to save space for pickup stations for the industries I'm feeding
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07:04:05  <Ethereal_Whisper> Rattleburg Forest is the nearest drop spur along the line and is getting a disproportionate amount of supplies because it can make 3-4 trips back and forth before the train to the furthest station down the line can make it once
07:04:54  <Ethereal_Whisper> In prozone games I've seen dummy trains on "logic loops" delaying trains from leaving a station under some circumstances, I wonder if that was possible to help out the evenness of this line?
07:11:00  <Ethereal_Whisper> I thought of a strange solution
07:11:49  <hylje> logic trains are usually pretty arcane
07:12:11  <hylje> train networks generally work best if you just make sure trains can proceed forward
07:12:33  <hylje> it's hard to get logic circuits do better
07:12:35  <Ethereal_Whisper> What I really should do is make it a loop network
07:13:22  <Ethereal_Whisper> What I did for now is to make a single-track line exiting the station (instead of having the train turn around) going a fair distance for no reason, setting a waypoint at the end of the track, and ordering the train to go to the waypoint before returning to the pickup station
07:15:43  <Ethereal_Whisper> That seems to have eased the burden on the pickup station quite a bit
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07:33:32  <Tray> !password
07:33:32  <coopserver> Tray: depend
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07:47:18  <V453000> heyo
07:47:39  <coopserver> <Tray> hi
07:48:56  <V453000> !pw
07:48:56  <coopserver> V453000: reopen
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07:49:12  <coopserver> <V453000> how we doin?
07:49:51  <coopserver> <V453000> it would be nice to play with train waiting spaces more at the SLH01 extension ... not that it is necessary right now
07:50:00  <coopserver> <V453000> just hintzz
07:52:21  <Ethereal_Whisper> this junction is so jammed :(
07:52:27  <coopserver> <Tray> 2X could see some love.
07:53:12  <V453000> Ethereal_Whisper: moar tracks
07:53:31  <Ethereal_Whisper> Buy me more space
07:53:43  <coopserver> <V453000> there is plenty space
07:54:02  <coopserver> <V453000> what wrong with 2X?
07:54:19  <coopserver> <Tray> the lower line jams occasionally
07:54:34  <coopserver> <V453000> btw as you asked earlier about depots stacking trains, that still happens in some scenarios and some setups, there are perfect solutions but I don't see any of them in this game
07:54:43  <coopserver> <V453000> if you browse refit games, my stations usually have it
07:55:07  <coopserver> <Tray> I will take a look
07:55:24  <coopserver> <V453000> in general it is 2 tricks, one is to make a sequence of pre-signals which makes the trains in the depot always have 2 chances to leave while the entering train lets it go
07:55:25  <coopserver> <Tray> but the 2->3 station I built at 3A seems to do just fine.
07:55:37  <coopserver> <V453000> second is having separate track for the depot and having a priority there
07:56:32  <coopserver> <V453000> in high traffic that can stack easily
07:56:41  <coopserver> <V453000> well, depends
07:56:55  <coopserver> <V453000> but once there is not enough iron ore, the depot will start piling up
07:57:00  <coopserver> <V453000> and it can have problems emptying
07:57:51  <coopserver> <V453000> simple refit thing there, see
07:58:49  <coopserver> <V453000> basically a priority for the depot
07:58:58  <coopserver> <Tray> I still think it's wierd to use a 1/1 ratio when loading is slower than unloading
07:59:18  <coopserver> <V453000> loading is slower?
07:59:19  <coopserver> <V453000> wat
07:59:33  <coopserver> <Tray> otherwise stacking wouldn't happen, would it?
07:59:41  <coopserver> <V453000> no that isn't really the source
07:59:45  <coopserver> <Tray> Maybe I got the whole thing wrong in the beginning. <:
08:00:01  <coopserver> <V453000> the source is just that a train comes at to the depot before the previous train left, doesn't mean the exit has to be slow
08:00:14  <coopserver> <V453000> and the signal prioritizing just lets the train in, instead of the depot train out
08:00:30  <coopserver> <V453000> so to make it flawless you add a priority for trains to leave depot first
08:01:12  <coopserver> <Tray> But I felt at the original 3A the pickup was blocked by a loading train causing the train to not leave when another train was unloading
08:02:03  <coopserver> <V453000> I would bet it to be some other cause
08:02:16  <coopserver> <V453000> like the train arriving to unload is running faster while the exiting train starts accelerating
08:02:45  <coopserver> <V453000> see what I did there
08:02:48  <coopserver> <V453000> both presignals are exit
08:03:02  <coopserver> <V453000> that lets it store trains in case of issues
08:03:23  <coopserver> <V453000> but once problems are resolved, the priority for depot lets it empty without keeping a stack of trains forever
08:05:15  <coopserver> <V453000> another option is this
08:05:23  <coopserver> <V453000> same platforms for pickup and drop
08:05:42  <coopserver> <V453000> the prio for depot is just a lot bigger
08:05:56  <coopserver> <V453000> but technically it does pretty much the same
08:06:26  <coopserver> <V453000> throughput-wise the first design I showed is superior
08:07:13  <Ethereal_Whisper> There a shortcut to link orders of existing trains?
08:07:18  <coopserver> <V453000> have you seen pro zone game 2013 btw :P
08:07:23  <coopserver> <Tray> I'm still wondering. The original 3A had regular problems with 6 drops with either jamming the input line or stacking depots while the new one only has 4 drops
08:07:36  <coopserver> <V453000> when creating order, ctrl+click the train to clone orders from Ethereal_Whisper
08:07:52  <coopserver> <Tray> I did not look at any pro zone games.
08:07:54  <Ethereal_Whisper> V453000, I meant the trains already exist with orders
08:08:05  <Ethereal_Whisper> I want to add an order to unlinked trains because I'm dumb and didn't give them shared orders
08:08:05  <coopserver> <V453000> same thing Ethereal_Whisper
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08:08:26  <coopserver> <V453000> in order window just set go Go, and ctrl click on some train to share orders with
08:08:26  <Ethereal_Whisper> Yeah that just gives me "can't share orders"
08:08:29  <Ethereal_Whisper> I'll do it manually
08:08:38  <coopserver> <V453000> then remove orders first
08:08:43  <coopserver> <V453000> click on end of order list and press F
08:09:33  <coopserver> <V453000> but yeah, in general this kind of 2->3 thing works
08:09:45  <coopserver> <V453000> it is not 100% safe probably, but the edge cases are rather rare
08:09:59  <coopserver> <V453000> the thing I showed is completely train-idiocy-proof
08:10:26  <coopserver> <V453000> pro zone game 2013 is my personal effort to make a brainmelt map ... you should check it out at some point :P
08:10:53  <coopserver> <V453000> 5k trains, 200k goods produced per month, timed SML, gigantic SRNW, unique SRNW stations
08:10:55  <coopserver> <V453000> mayhem
08:11:35  <coopserver> <Tray> I think I've read the blogpost.
08:11:42  <coopserver> <V453000> there is 2
08:11:48  <coopserver> <V453000> one is pzg13, one is pzg2013
08:13:17  <coopserver> <Tray> Haven't seen that.
08:13:27  <coopserver> <Tray> I will check it out.
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08:13:44  <coopserver> <V453000> please report your feelings afterwards XD
08:14:14  <coopserver> <Tray> It will probably go like: MADNESS? This is czeck republic.
08:14:21  <coopserver> <V453000> yeah something like that
08:14:36  <coopserver> <V453000> it is the most insane map I have made in OpenTTD ever
08:14:44  <coopserver> <V453000> it has been 3 years and nobody did anything similar
08:14:50  <hylje> czech it out
08:14:55  <coopserver> <V453000> I am considerably proud of it
08:14:57  <coopserver> <V453000> yeah XD
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08:26:52  <fair_> !pw
08:26:52  <coopserver> fair_: quotes
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09:09:14  <happpy> !players
09:09:14  <coopserver> happpy: There are currently 0 players and 1 spectators, making a total of 1 clients connected
09:09:18  <happpy> hi
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09:54:02  <Ethereal_Whisper> idk do you think 8 tracks is enough or do I need more
10:00:19  <Double_Ded_MEECH> whispa
10:00:29  <Ethereal_Whisper> Hi
10:00:47  <Double_Ded_MEECH> I think you need to double your bridges :D
10:03:34  <Ethereal_Whisper> I think that something about to become 10 tracks wide would make that practically impossible. :P
10:05:54  <Double_Ded_MEECH> How many trains you wanna do?
10:06:10  <Double_Ded_MEECH> oh, well you dont build exactly to coop style though :)
10:06:39  <Ethereal_Whisper> The lines are all pretty low capacity. I simply have so many tracks because I have the space to follow the philosophy of "Merge lines? Nah. YOU GET A LINE, YOU GET A LINE, EVERYONE GETS A LINE
10:07:17  <Double_Ded_MEECH> I love oprah
10:09:21  <Ethereal_Whisper> behold the terminus of 2 of the now-10 tracks that will be serviced by a grand total of 1 train ever
10:10:17  <Double_Ded_MEECH> that one train is special
10:10:29  <Ethereal_Whisper> Haha
10:10:37  <Ethereal_Whisper> It gets its own dedicated track because YOLO
10:11:21  <Ethereal_Whisper> To be fair the beginning of the line has like... 7 trains coming from one pickup station coming from upstream, but they all stop at various spurs
10:17:22  <Double_Ded_MEECH> :)
10:22:19  <Ethereal_Whisper> 10 tracks ftw lol
10:22:35  <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm building what I call a "troll" network
10:23:50  <Double_Ded_MEECH> ultimate troll would be building like the computer :D
10:24:38  <Ethereal_Whisper> trains
10:24:57  <Ethereal_Whisper> Like the computer i.e. having 0 understanding that a turn radius of greater than 1 is a good idea?
10:25:05  <Ethereal_Whisper> And having no idea what diagonal track is?
10:25:30  <Double_Ded_MEECH> exactly
10:25:32  <Double_Ded_MEECH> glad you get it :D
10:26:16  <Ethereal_Whisper> am I doing it right
10:26:55  <Ethereal_Whisper> I bet if the computer sat down to play they'd use the bomb tool instead of control-click to remove track too
10:27:32  <Double_Ded_MEECH> heh
10:27:42  <Double_Ded_MEECH> I dont remember them using the bomb tool
10:27:55  <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm being sarcastic
10:27:58  <Double_Ded_MEECH> that line you made though looks like it needs some bridges :D
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10:28:25  <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm having them race
10:29:11  <Ethereal_Whisper> Guess which one is winning
10:29:30  <Double_Ded_MEECH> lol
10:29:36  <Double_Ded_MEECH> the charlie sheen train?
10:30:31  <Ethereal_Whisper> LOL
10:30:34  <Ethereal_Whisper> is that better? :P
10:30:52  <Double_Ded_MEECH> omg no signals :D
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10:35:36  <lol> !pw
10:35:36  <coopserver> lol: newgrf
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10:37:58  <Ethereal_Whisper> I just made my first refitting train
10:38:01  <Ethereal_Whisper> Let's see how this goes
10:38:07  <coopserver> <lol> good work
10:39:19  <happpy> hi lol
10:39:29  <Double_Ded_MEECH> yoyo
10:39:32  <happpy> how things
10:39:42  <coopserver> <lol> great
10:40:13  <Ethereal_Whisper> It was a great success!
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10:52:33  <Ethereal_Whisper> Now it's 12 tracks:
10:52:35  <Ethereal_Whisper> Lol
10:52:53  <lol> they are hardly used
10:52:59  <Ethereal_Whisper> Yeah
10:53:01  <Ethereal_Whisper> It's a "silly" network
10:53:17  <Ethereal_Whisper> Based in the principle of "merge lines? nah, keep it on its own line
10:53:47  <Double_Ded_MEECH> lo
10:53:49  <Double_Ded_MEECH> l
10:54:06  <Ethereal_Whisper> I mean I spend more money that way, yeah
10:54:11  <Ethereal_Whisper> But congestion is a thing of the past
10:54:47  <coopserver> <lol> yeah
10:55:02  <coopserver> <lol> you would need a large amount of trains to get that at 12 lines
10:55:37  <lol> @gap 3
10:55:37  <Webster> lol: For Trainlength of 3: <= 9 needs 2, 10 - 14 needs 3, 15 - 19 needs 4.
10:59:27  <Ethereal_Whisper> Indeed
10:59:33  <Ethereal_Whisper> Now it's 14 because I'm being even sillier
10:59:50  <Ethereal_Whisper> Probably 16-18 soon if I keep to the non-merging of lines silliness
10:59:57  <lol>
11:00:09  <lol> just take a look at that
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11:01:29  <Ethereal_Whisper> Damn
11:01:36  <lol>
11:01:40  <lol> and that if you got time
11:04:19  <Ethereal_Whisper> My livestock network is apparently S-Bahn style
11:04:30  <lol> and this one is really important
11:04:31  <lol>
11:04:44  <Ethereal_Whisper> I've got this clusterfuck of a transfer station that doesn't even supply anything on its own
11:05:13  <Ethereal_Whisper> Not ideal but again I'm just making a really stupid network to see how dumb it looks at the moment
11:06:06  <lol> transfer stations aren't dumb
11:07:43  <Ethereal_Whisper> They can be more efficient than merging side lines, for sure
11:20:14  <lol> in real life it is used a lot too
11:20:30  <lol> use small trains and busses to fill large ones
11:23:21  <Ethereal_Whisper> Well, IRL would be like playing on a 4096x4096 with "minimal" industries
11:23:49  <lol> lol
11:24:11  <lol> but you're right the game isn't really real
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12:39:34  <ConductCat> :3
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13:58:03  <lol> !pw
13:58:03  <coopserver> lol: append
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13:59:08  <coopserver> <lol> can we get a higher train limit?
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14:02:50  <lol_> !pw
14:02:50  <coopserver> lol_: append
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14:59:26  <Arveen> !pw
14:59:26  <coopserver> Arveen: vararg
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16:34:47  *** Double_Ded_MEECH is now known as BiG_MEECH
16:35:02  <BiG_MEECH> @roulette
16:35:02  <Webster> BiG_MEECH: *click*
16:41:00  <V453000> trying to go full retard?
16:41:24  <hylje> never go full Richard
16:43:07  <BiG_MEECH> I'm dead like 200x
16:43:24  <BiG_MEECH> should try irl roulette
16:53:47  <Jam35> @dice 2 6
16:53:58  <Jam35> @dice 2d6
16:53:58  <Webster> Jam35: 4 and 4
16:54:03  <Jam35> I win
16:59:16  <BiG_MEECH> @dice 2d6
16:59:16  <Webster> BiG_MEECH: 1 and 4
16:59:33  <Jam35> yes
16:59:54  <Jam35> @dice 2d6
16:59:54  <Webster> Jam35: 1 and 1
16:59:59  <Jam35> wtf
17:12:17  <V453000> ._.
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18:28:35  <BiG_MEECH> lol
18:28:49  <BiG_MEECH> yay dice game
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21:16:37  <sietse> !pw
21:16:37  <coopserver> sietse: anyone
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22:36:02  <BiG_MEECH> yoyo
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