Log for #openttdcoop on 26th September 2017:
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11:09:16  <happpy> !players
11:09:16  <coopserver> happpy: The server is empty, no one is connected. Feel free to remedy this situation
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14:59:36  <happpy> hey
14:59:42  <loeky> hello
14:59:56  <happpy> how things
15:00:18  <loeky> good you to
15:00:34  <happpy> good thanks
15:02:47  <loeky> yeah me to the not playing part
15:04:37  <loeky> !dl
15:04:37  <coopserver> loeky: !download lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
15:04:38  <coopserver> loeky:
15:08:04  <loeky> !pw
15:08:04  <coopserver> loeky: tindex
15:08:10  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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18:20:18  <zxbiohazardzx> !players
18:20:18  <coopserver> zxbiohazardzx: The server is empty, no one is connected. Feel free to remedy this situation
18:20:20  <zxbiohazardzx> !password
18:20:20  <coopserver> zxbiohazardzx: merged
18:20:27  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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18:20:50  <loeky> hello
18:21:07  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> supz
18:21:43  <V453000> big upz
18:22:42  <loeky> seems we need extra steel trains but i dit not check flow off trains
18:23:21  <V453000> well let's check it then :)
18:23:22  <V453000> !pw
18:23:23  <coopserver> V453000: merged
18:23:43  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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18:24:01  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> we still have some ML consistancies to fix anyway
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18:24:30  <loeky> so bottle necks could exist
18:24:40  <coopserver> <V453000> where is shit deep?
18:24:42  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> they exist for sure
18:24:59  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> between SLH02 and BBH02mostly still
18:25:07  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> thats like all routes of the OD matrix on there
18:26:07  <coopserver> <V453000> hm
18:26:23  <coopserver> <V453000> well BBH00 not too glorious
18:26:27  <coopserver> <V453000> bio's trash :D
18:26:49  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> yeah yeah yeah
18:27:02  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> that isnt even the bottleneck
18:27:13  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> bbh00 was only partially mine
18:27:20  <coopserver> <V453000> ikr
18:27:23  <coopserver> <loeky> slh 02 you say ? seems oke since it has been split
18:27:24  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> loeky build it i just tried fixing some
18:27:38  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> i think i fixed most of SLH02 but still there is some meh in it for me
18:27:49  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> mostly cause MSH01 is only a half MSH
18:28:00  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> thats the main origin of the issue of the SLH02
18:28:02  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> oh well
18:28:52  <coopserver> <V453000> what do you mean half
18:28:56  <coopserver> <V453000> ah the bypass
18:28:57  <coopserver> <loeky> #587 is in wierd place
18:29:00  <coopserver> <V453000> well that's a mess
18:29:04  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> MSH01 is only from NE not from SE
18:29:09  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> SLH02 is just wth
18:29:15  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> i mean the bypass makes it function
18:29:18  <coopserver> <V453000> that should be kind of fine right
18:29:19  <coopserver> <V453000> yeah
18:29:24  <coopserver> <V453000> it's not the cleanest but eh
18:29:26  <coopserver> *** loeky has joined company #1
18:29:27  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> but its a shitstorm to look at
18:29:31  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> instant eye-cancer
18:31:31  <coopserver> <loeky> fixed train wrong double signal
18:31:32  <coopserver> <V453000> it's pretty much fine
18:31:41  <coopserver> <V453000> we can even call this game finished if you like
18:32:38  <coopserver> <loeky> better not wait to long or we end up like brix game (-;
18:32:51  <coopserver> <V453000> ? :D
18:33:23  <coopserver> <V453000> I guess it was like 3 months long eh
18:33:47  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> hehe
18:35:12  <coopserver> <V453000> any of you want to make a map?
18:35:18  <coopserver> <V453000> I would prefer someone other than me making it
18:35:19  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> random works for me?
18:35:43  <coopserver> <V453000> well random generation is always there but you also need some grfs :P
18:35:44  <Webster> Read the Quickstart - #openttdcoop wiki - (again, try !grf)
18:35:56  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> ow yeah that and all
18:36:17  <coopserver> <V453000> by all means we can play a game without grfs for once
18:36:22  <loeky> any one up for cargo dist
18:36:28  <coopserver> <V453000> no
18:36:31  <coopserver> <V453000> that's not going to happen
18:37:06  <coopserver> <V453000> it's been tried multiple times and every single one it was a catastrophy
18:37:28  <loeky> its realy hard to do
18:37:35  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> yupz
18:37:36  <coopserver> <V453000> cargodist is just broken in the very idea of it, and some of the implementation breaks with large networks as well
18:38:06  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> mostly the latter for me. the idea of cargo having a dist is ok, but the list of destinations should be predetermined rather then only where you offer a line
18:38:18  <loeky> yeah it wont do large netwerks at all so you need some spesial orders to get it going
18:38:21  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> aka fixed town numbers -> all initial towns get a request-seed for goods
18:38:24  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> anway
18:38:40  <coopserver> <V453000> there is multiple layers of it, and all of them are wrong
18:38:48  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> t
18:39:34  <coopserver> <V453000> 1. having cargo want to go somewhere means the most efficient way to play is remove hubs and replace them with transfer stations - that solves everything for you. The most boring way to play must never be the best way to play, complexity should have rewards. Especially elementary stuff like junctions.
18:40:25  *** Guest5452 has quit IRC
18:40:56  <coopserver> <V453000> 2. having cargo want to go somewhere is kind of alright, there was one more attempt at implementing it called YACD which was working shitloads better than cargodist, but still had the flaw of point 1. ... what it did was that mines wanted to send stuff to some factories, it was determined which factories it is at the mine, and as the mine increased production the destination amount increased
18:41:11  <coopserver> <V453000> which on paper is super interesting, but the flaw number 1. is just destroying it completely
18:41:27  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> only partially
18:41:41  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> if you apply a huge disbonus for transfer or make it redist on transfer?
18:41:42  <coopserver> <V453000> cargodist only makes the cargoes distribute once you have multiple drop stations of the same cargo, which means you aren't even motivated to use it at all
18:42:01  <coopserver> <V453000> there is no disbonus, some train always get the profit
18:42:13  <coopserver> <V453000> and the total profit is always the same regardless which train gets the transfer cuts
18:42:22  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> like i said the only way i see one work is to predefine early start towns and then have the goods be pointed to "accepting station within town limits"
18:42:50  <zxbiohazardzx> oh well
18:42:55  <coopserver> <V453000> well we can make many speculations and ideas but it won't chang the way it works now :P
18:43:00  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> true
18:43:04  <coopserver> <zxbiohazardzx> anyway ill brb
18:43:07  <coopserver> <V453000> I also had some ideas but the biggest problem is point n1
18:43:13  <coopserver> <V453000> I don't see how to fix it
18:43:36  <coopserver> <V453000> you could only remove re-transferring which would basically remove transferring completely
18:43:41  <coopserver> <V453000> and that's not good
18:43:44  <coopserver> *** V453000 has left the game (Leaving)
18:44:11  <V453000> ... and my 3. is that it breaks on big networks and creates all kinds of super weird shit, but that is a part of the implementation which could probably be improved
18:46:08  <loeky> 1 and 3 combined realy has to do how complex a network and more complex means more super difficult program
18:48:09  <V453000> well 1 is just a critical self-defeating design flaw
18:48:25  <V453000> 3 is probably just some bugs in the implementation
18:48:29  <loeky> i would say leave the complex stuff to the players and dont try to make some smart way of mesuring the network
18:48:48  <V453000> well that basically means disable cargodist :P
18:50:08  <loeky> yepp cargo dist is more for pax but is there some grf so citys ask for goods delivert to them
18:50:27  <V453000> even with pax it breaks like mad
18:50:38  <V453000> there are definitely game scripts which make towns require stuff
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