Times are UTC Toggle Colours
02:06:16 <Afdal> all right guise, I need help 02:06:39 <Afdal> my fail-safe high-speed merges keep failing 02:06:44 <Afdal> and it's driving me bonkers 02:06:56 <Afdal> Did some big change happen in a recent version update? 02:07:08 <Afdal> I swear my designs haven't changed at all and they didn't used to do this 02:07:37 <Afdal> https://files.catbox.moe/arzb79.png 02:07:44 <Afdal> Tell me why this is happening >:I 05:13:21 <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> Whats happening? Is that a cyclotron or a SML? 05:14:14 <coopdiscord> <Clockworker> "yes" 05:20:16 <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> It looks like it should work to me 06:00:01 *** coopdiscord has quit IRC 06:00:14 *** coopdiscord has joined #openttdcoop 06:05:40 <Afdal> And yet it doesn't :( 06:05:52 <Afdal> my shifters keep messing up too 06:15:16 <Afdal> It's like block signals have been made ever so slightly slower to reaction 06:15:22 <Afdal> that it's causing these to break 06:16:09 <Afdal> or maybe it's been made that what's defined as a "block" is now larger than it used to be 06:28:01 <Afdal> I can't be the first to have noticed this... ??? 06:31:14 <Afdal> Fix #7159: Waiting time at red one-way signals was too short 06:31:16 <Afdal> Was it this? 06:31:22 <Afdal> seems unlikely 06:31:53 <Afdal> no wait, that does kind of sound like the problem 06:53:14 <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> I don't think thats it 06:53:44 <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> Whats failing? The train isn't exiting the circle? 06:54:00 <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> Did you upgrade to faster trains? 06:55:48 <Afdal> the two-way entry signal doesn't seem to be responding as fast as usual or something, and it's causing trains to slow down as they approach it 06:57:08 <Afdal> normally a train travels two half tiles and that's enough to open up the exit signal behind it and "unlock" the two-way entry signal in the event that the last section of priority became occupied after it entered the merging track section 06:57:40 <Afdal> but the entry signal seems slower to react for some reason and it's causing the train to brake a bit before the fail-safe unlocks it 06:58:28 <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> So it only happens in the fail-safe case? 06:58:31 <Afdal> a high-speed merge where a train needs to brake occasionally isn't high-speed >:I 06:58:32 <Afdal> yeah 06:58:59 <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> Hm 06:59:57 <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> I guess you can move the fail safe breaker back a tile 07:00:10 <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> Have you tried it on an older version of the game? 07:01:05 <Afdal> hard to do that 07:01:15 <Afdal> due to save game version 07:01:26 <Afdal> can't load saves from newer versions 07:30:53 <coopdiscord> <happpy> yeah I think that's a bug 07:31:21 *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop 07:31:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy 07:32:52 <Afdal> is there a way to force older versions of the game to load newer game saves 07:33:03 <Afdal> would make this way easier to test 07:33:32 <coopdiscord> <happpy> hmm 07:33:46 <coopdiscord> <happpy> if you no how to change the code 07:33:51 <coopdiscord> <happpy> but I don't so 07:33:59 <coopdiscord> <happpy> I don't think so 07:44:12 <Afdal> well 07:44:22 <Afdal> I just made a contrived save on an old version 07:44:36 <Afdal> and then tested it on current 07:44:43 <Afdal> and the fail-safe functions properly 07:44:52 <Afdal> so uh 07:45:00 <Afdal> What the heck is wrong with my designs 07:46:24 <Afdal> is it the path signals being used for part of the priority? 07:47:06 <Afdal> https://gyazo.com/c749c3a3595e82f60fc26c67c800b1f2 07:47:07 <Webster> Title: Screenshot - c749c3a3595e82f60fc26c67c800b1f2 - Gyazo (at gyazo.com) 07:47:13 <Afdal> This is functioning exactly as it's supposed to 07:48:19 <Afdal> nope, not the path signals 07:48:56 <Afdal> Could it be NUTS engines... ??? 07:49:07 <Afdal> Are NUTS engines not exactly full tile increments 07:49:38 <Afdal> if a 3-tile train were actually more like 3.0001 tiles long that could cause a problem like this 07:53:15 <Afdal> oooh interesting 07:53:27 <Afdal> switched to NUTS engines and recreated it 08:15:08 <Afdal> Yeah someone better tell V453000, this is a NUTS issue 08:20:58 <coopdiscord> <happpy> I think he be to besy to fixs it 08:23:13 <Afdal> :'( 08:25:10 <coopdiscord> <happpy> you can pm him on discord about the problem 08:25:16 <coopdiscord> <happpy> and see what he say 08:25:56 <Afdal> Is that why he doesn't reply on IRC anymore 08:26:05 <Afdal> I don't use datamining spyware -_- 08:26:28 <Afdal> Anyone know how I can grab old versions of NUTS 08:26:37 <Afdal> I'd like to figure out exactly when this problem was introduced 08:29:08 <Afdal> of course if it's a bug in how OpenTTD handles some newgrf flags, he might not need to change anything to NUTS 08:34:26 <coopdiscord> <happpy> I don't think the old nuts train set on openttd but have a look in the grf list to download 08:35:04 <coopdiscord> <happpy> I no he work on a game like openttd so just pm him 08:35:59 <Afdal> yeah he's been drawing graphics for Factorio the past couple years 08:37:21 <coopdiscord> <happpy> yeah so best to pm him on discord 08:54:45 <Afdal> this happened sometime from NUTS 0.7.9 to v0.8.4, and I suspect most likely it was caused by changes in 0.8.3 and 0.8.2 08:55:00 <coopdiscord> <happpy> yeah 08:55:03 <Afdal> y'all openttdcoopers might wanna consider using v0.8.1 in your games in the mean time 08:55:44 <Afdal> All right that's enough testing for me for now 08:55:46 <Afdal> goodnight 08:58:24 <coopdiscord> <happpy> the openttdcoop server be fixs next year 09:45:10 *** happpy has quit IRC 09:48:06 *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop 09:48:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy 10:24:50 *** happpy has quit IRC 10:44:19 *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop 10:44:21 *** happpy has left #openttdcoop 10:44:27 *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop 10:44:28 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy 11:17:15 *** happpy has quit IRC 11:40:43 *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop 11:40:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy 13:32:38 *** happpy has quit IRC 13:33:15 *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop 13:33:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy 13:57:45 *** happpy has quit IRC 15:13:56 <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> I mean it might be the train speed 15:20:23 *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop 15:20:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy 15:20:53 <Afdal> Nope 15:21:01 <Afdal> it's some sort of invisible train length issue 15:21:20 <Afdal> after some more testing, I've realized that the CHAMELEON class engines have had the same problem for ages 15:21:29 <Afdal> well before NUTS v0.8.0 15:21:42 <Afdal> I bet nobody noticed because they hardly use them :) 15:22:38 <Afdal> the other engines affected are the MEDIUM/FAST class cargo Maglevs 15:22:53 <Afdal> but chameleon trains are much slower 15:23:04 <coopdiscord> <happpy> yeah 15:23:58 <Afdal> And in case you're wondering, you are right--train speed actually can affect the length of high-speed merge priority. But it normally only comes into place with at ludicrously fast speeds like 4000 km/hr 15:24:29 <Afdal> where trains are moving so fast there aren't enough game ticks for block signals to respond as effectively as usual 15:24:55 <Afdal> I've done some tests before on the old VacTrain set 15:28:57 <Afdal> Actually I think really, really slow trains can also alter the length of high-speed priorities by one tile 15:29:00 <Afdal> if I remember right 15:29:10 <Afdal> like sub 90km/hr trains 15:29:25 <Afdal> might be wrong 15:30:05 <Afdal> for the vast majority of normal train speeds though a one-size-fits-all high-speed merge exists 15:30:11 <Afdal> that only depends on train length 15:34:32 <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> Interesting 15:44:27 *** happpy_ has joined #openttdcoop 15:44:29 *** happpy_ has left #openttdcoop 15:44:34 *** happpy is now known as Guest3470 15:44:40 *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop 15:44:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy 15:50:30 *** Guest3470 has quit IRC 16:05:05 *** Progman has joined #openttdcoop 16:51:44 <Afdal> Yep, it looks like this problem with CHAMELEON class trains has been present in NUTS ever since their introduction 16:52:21 <Afdal> whereas it was only recently become a problem with those maglev cargo classes 16:52:44 <Afdal> I wonder if any other train sets have this problem 16:52:54 <Afdal> I don't usually play other sets too much 16:52:57 <coopdiscord> <happpy> don't no 16:53:25 <Afdal> What train set would openttdcoopers say is probably the 2nd best for making massive networks 16:54:04 <coopdiscord> <happpy> hmm 16:54:24 <coopdiscord> <happpy> we most use nuts train set 16:56:06 <Afdal> I've seen you use some other sets before 16:56:16 <Afdal> but not sure their name 16:56:43 <coopdiscord> <happpy> yeah uk train set or such train set 16:59:31 <Afdal> I think most other train newGRFs are pretty bad but there's one or two with some decently-powered trains that don't take weeks to reach top speed 17:00:14 <Afdal> or have a myriad trains with low speed and hardly any different 17:14:43 <Afdal> I'd really like to get my hands on NUTS v0.8.0. That seems to be when a ton of really big balancing changes were made, but before the maglev cargo engines had this bug introduced 17:14:51 <Afdal> can anyone hook me up with a save game that uses that 17:14:57 <Afdal> so that I can grab it off Bananas 17:15:20 <coopdiscord> <happpy> sorry the boot gon down 17:15:28 <coopdiscord> <happpy> ahd I don't no the website 17:36:30 *** happpy has quit IRC 17:36:32 <Afdal> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/8992 17:36:36 <Afdal> hope this helps 17:57:13 <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> Oh I didn't realize that was an animated png 17:59:14 <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> There are a lot of trains very close to eachother on that cyclotron 18:56:11 <Afdal> I probably should have included a vehicle window indicating its speed 18:56:13 <Afdal> in that animation 19:21:01 *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop 19:21:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy 20:05:12 <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> It doesn't look like the number of vehicles near eachother was a problem though 21:56:19 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:38:50 *** happpy has quit IRC