Log for #openttdcoop on 14th October 2020:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
02:06:16  <Afdal> all right guise, I need help
02:06:39  <Afdal> my fail-safe high-speed merges keep failing
02:06:44  <Afdal> and it's driving me bonkers
02:06:56  <Afdal> Did some big change happen in a recent version update?
02:07:08  <Afdal> I swear my designs haven't changed at all and they didn't used to do this
02:07:37  <Afdal>
02:07:44  <Afdal> Tell me why this is happening >:I
05:13:21  <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> Whats happening? Is that a cyclotron or a SML?
05:14:14  <coopdiscord> <Clockworker> "yes"
05:20:16  <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> It looks like it should work to me
06:00:01  *** coopdiscord has quit IRC
06:00:14  *** coopdiscord has joined #openttdcoop
06:05:40  <Afdal> And yet it doesn't :(
06:05:52  <Afdal> my shifters keep messing up too
06:15:16  <Afdal> It's like block signals have been made ever so slightly slower to reaction
06:15:22  <Afdal> that it's causing these to break
06:16:09  <Afdal> or maybe it's been made that what's defined as a "block" is now larger than it used to be
06:28:01  <Afdal> I can't be the first to have noticed this... ???
06:31:14  <Afdal> Fix #7159: Waiting time at red one-way signals was too short
06:31:16  <Afdal> Was it this?
06:31:22  <Afdal> seems unlikely
06:31:53  <Afdal> no wait, that does kind of sound like the problem
06:53:14  <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> I don't think thats it
06:53:44  <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> Whats failing? The train isn't exiting the circle?
06:54:00  <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> Did you upgrade to faster trains?
06:55:48  <Afdal> the two-way entry signal doesn't seem to be responding as fast as usual or something, and it's causing trains to slow down as they approach it
06:57:08  <Afdal> normally a train travels two half tiles and that's enough to open up the exit signal behind it and "unlock" the two-way entry signal in the event that the last section of priority became occupied after it entered the merging track section
06:57:40  <Afdal> but the entry signal seems slower to react for some reason and it's causing the train to brake a bit before the fail-safe unlocks it
06:58:28  <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> So it only happens in the fail-safe case?
06:58:31  <Afdal> a high-speed merge where a train needs to brake occasionally isn't high-speed >:I
06:58:32  <Afdal> yeah
06:58:59  <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> Hm
06:59:57  <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> I guess you can move the fail safe breaker back a tile
07:00:10  <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> Have you tried it on an older version of the game?
07:01:05  <Afdal> hard to do that
07:01:15  <Afdal> due to save game version
07:01:26  <Afdal> can't load saves from newer versions
07:30:53  <coopdiscord> <happpy> yeah  I think that's a bug
07:31:21  *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop
07:31:21  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy
07:32:52  <Afdal> is there a way to force older versions of the game to load newer game saves
07:33:03  <Afdal> would make this way easier to test
07:33:32  <coopdiscord> <happpy> hmm
07:33:46  <coopdiscord> <happpy> if you no how to change the code
07:33:51  <coopdiscord> <happpy> but I don't so
07:33:59  <coopdiscord> <happpy> I don't think so
07:44:12  <Afdal> well
07:44:22  <Afdal> I just made a contrived save on an old version
07:44:36  <Afdal> and then tested it on current
07:44:43  <Afdal> and the fail-safe functions properly
07:44:52  <Afdal> so uh
07:45:00  <Afdal> What the heck is wrong with my designs
07:46:24  <Afdal> is it the path signals being used for part of the priority?
07:47:06  <Afdal>
07:47:07  <Webster> Title: Screenshot - c749c3a3595e82f60fc26c67c800b1f2 - Gyazo (at
07:47:13  <Afdal> This is functioning exactly as it's supposed to
07:48:19  <Afdal> nope, not the path signals
07:48:56  <Afdal> Could it be NUTS engines... ???
07:49:07  <Afdal> Are NUTS engines not exactly full tile increments
07:49:38  <Afdal> if a 3-tile train were actually more like 3.0001 tiles long that could cause a problem like this
07:53:15  <Afdal> oooh interesting
07:53:27  <Afdal> switched to NUTS engines and recreated it
08:15:08  <Afdal> Yeah someone better tell V453000, this is a NUTS issue
08:20:58  <coopdiscord> <happpy> I think he be to besy  to fixs it
08:23:13  <Afdal> :'(
08:25:10  <coopdiscord> <happpy> you can pm him  on discord about the problem
08:25:16  <coopdiscord> <happpy> and see what he say
08:25:56  <Afdal> Is that why he doesn't reply on IRC anymore
08:26:05  <Afdal> I don't use datamining spyware -_-
08:26:28  <Afdal> Anyone know how I can grab old versions of NUTS
08:26:37  <Afdal> I'd like to figure out exactly when this problem was introduced
08:29:08  <Afdal> of course if it's a bug in how OpenTTD handles some newgrf flags, he might not need to change anything to NUTS
08:34:26  <coopdiscord> <happpy> I don't think the  old nuts train set on openttd  but have a look in the  grf list to download
08:35:04  <coopdiscord> <happpy> I no he work on  a game like openttd   so just pm him
08:35:59  <Afdal> yeah he's been drawing graphics for Factorio the past couple years
08:37:21  <coopdiscord> <happpy> yeah   so best to pm him on discord
08:54:45  <Afdal> this happened sometime from NUTS 0.7.9 to v0.8.4, and I suspect most likely it was caused by changes in 0.8.3 and 0.8.2
08:55:00  <coopdiscord> <happpy> yeah
08:55:03  <Afdal> y'all openttdcoopers might wanna consider using v0.8.1 in your games in the mean time
08:55:44  <Afdal> All right that's enough testing for me for now
08:55:46  <Afdal> goodnight
08:58:24  <coopdiscord> <happpy> the openttdcoop server be fixs next year
09:45:10  *** happpy has quit IRC
09:48:06  *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop
09:48:06  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy
10:24:50  *** happpy has quit IRC
10:44:19  *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop
10:44:21  *** happpy has left #openttdcoop
10:44:27  *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop
10:44:28  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy
11:17:15  *** happpy has quit IRC
11:40:43  *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop
11:40:43  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy
13:32:38  *** happpy has quit IRC
13:33:15  *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop
13:33:15  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy
13:57:45  *** happpy has quit IRC
15:13:56  <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> I mean it might be the train speed
15:20:23  *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop
15:20:23  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy
15:20:53  <Afdal> Nope
15:21:01  <Afdal> it's some sort of invisible train length issue
15:21:20  <Afdal> after some more testing, I've realized that the CHAMELEON class engines have had the same problem for ages
15:21:29  <Afdal> well before NUTS v0.8.0
15:21:42  <Afdal> I bet nobody noticed because they hardly use them :)
15:22:38  <Afdal> the other engines affected are the MEDIUM/FAST class cargo Maglevs
15:22:53  <Afdal> but chameleon trains are much slower
15:23:04  <coopdiscord> <happpy> yeah
15:23:58  <Afdal> And in case you're wondering, you are right--train speed actually can affect the length of high-speed merge priority.  But it normally only comes into place with at ludicrously fast speeds like 4000 km/hr
15:24:29  <Afdal> where trains are moving so fast there aren't enough game ticks for block signals to respond as effectively as usual
15:24:55  <Afdal> I've done some tests before on the old VacTrain set
15:28:57  <Afdal> Actually I think really, really slow trains can also alter the length of high-speed priorities by one tile
15:29:00  <Afdal> if I remember right
15:29:10  <Afdal> like sub 90km/hr trains
15:29:25  <Afdal> might be wrong
15:30:05  <Afdal> for the vast majority of normal train speeds though a one-size-fits-all high-speed merge exists
15:30:11  <Afdal> that only depends on train length
15:34:32  <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> Interesting
15:44:27  *** happpy_ has joined #openttdcoop
15:44:29  *** happpy_ has left #openttdcoop
15:44:34  *** happpy is now known as Guest3470
15:44:40  *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop
15:44:40  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy
15:50:30  *** Guest3470 has quit IRC
16:05:05  *** Progman has joined #openttdcoop
16:51:44  <Afdal> Yep, it looks like this problem with CHAMELEON class trains has been present in NUTS ever since their introduction
16:52:21  <Afdal> whereas it was only recently become a problem with those maglev cargo classes
16:52:44  <Afdal> I wonder if any other train sets have this problem
16:52:54  <Afdal> I don't usually play other sets too much
16:52:57  <coopdiscord> <happpy> don't no
16:53:25  <Afdal> What train set would openttdcoopers say is probably the 2nd best for making massive networks
16:54:04  <coopdiscord> <happpy> hmm
16:54:24  <coopdiscord> <happpy> we most use nuts train set
16:56:06  <Afdal> I've seen you use some other sets before
16:56:16  <Afdal> but not sure their name
16:56:43  <coopdiscord> <happpy> yeah    uk  train set  or such train set
16:59:31  <Afdal> I think most other train newGRFs are pretty bad but there's one or two with some decently-powered trains that don't take weeks to reach top speed
17:00:14  <Afdal> or have a myriad trains with low speed and hardly any different
17:14:43  <Afdal> I'd really like to get my hands on NUTS v0.8.0.  That seems to be when a ton of really big balancing changes were made, but before the maglev cargo engines had this bug introduced
17:14:51  <Afdal> can anyone hook me up with a save game that uses that
17:14:57  <Afdal> so that I can grab it off Bananas
17:15:20  <coopdiscord> <happpy> sorry the boot gon down
17:15:28  <coopdiscord> <happpy> ahd I don't no the website
17:36:30  *** happpy has quit IRC
17:36:32  <Afdal>
17:36:36  <Afdal> hope this helps
17:57:13  <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> Oh I didn't realize that was an animated png
17:59:14  <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> There are a lot of trains very close to eachother on that cyclotron
18:56:11  <Afdal> I probably should have included a vehicle window indicating its speed
18:56:13  <Afdal> in that animation
19:21:01  *** happpy has joined #openttdcoop
19:21:01  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o happpy
20:05:12  <coopdiscord> <LugnutsK / Hazzard> It doesn't look like the number of vehicles near eachother was a problem though
21:56:19  *** Progman has quit IRC
22:38:50  *** happpy has quit IRC

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk