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05:51:20 *** DJNekkid has quit IRC 08:47:51 <Webster> Latest update from trac: Revision 711: -Change: support messages from min_active_clients and bridge them to irc <http://trac.openttdcoop.org/changeset/711/> 09:01:40 <Webster> Latest update from dev: Autopilot - Revision 711: -Change: support messages from min_active_clients and bridge them to irc <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/autopilot/repository/revisions/711> 12:14:10 <Webster> Latest update from dev: 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/56> || 2cc train set - Feature #55: refit policy accessible via parameter <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/55> 12:20:25 <planetmaker> Ammler, what do you think of Tracker #55 ? 12:25:16 <Ammler> planetmaker: dunno if it is worth 12:26:25 <planetmaker> it's not a big act. Two additional sprites per wagon with different capabilities 12:26:39 <planetmaker> I think I yesterday found out how to do that :) 12:27:07 <Ammler> what is the advantage of a bit switch against the parameters? 12:27:20 <Ammler> and I guess, there are too many regions already. 12:27:44 <Ammler> I once suggested DJ to use bitswitch, too. 12:27:56 <Ammler> But not sure anymore, it is easier for the user. 12:34:05 <planetmaker> well. Getting a string of 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 correct isn't particularily easy, either 12:34:15 <planetmaker> I rather add up some numbers. 12:36:51 <Ammler> wll, you can ;-) 12:37:08 <Ammler> aber stell dir ein "normalo" vor 12:38:20 <planetmaker> well, yes. they can do, I think 12:38:39 <planetmaker> a "Normalo" won't bother to look at the readme anyway 12:47:06 <Ammler> we rejected the bitswitch because of only 8 bits available, has that changed? 12:56:15 <planetmaker> ah... I guess not 12:56:36 <planetmaker> despite that, I still like that more. But now you mention it, I remember that discussion :) 12:57:42 * Ammler posted another idea ;-) 13:01:14 <planetmaker> hehe :) I agree with you 13:02:21 <Webster> Latest update from dev: 2cc train set - Support #57: Skipping version 2.03 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/57> || 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/56#change-72> 13:02:53 * planetmaker replied there 13:03:19 * planetmaker also thinks that the beta status could just as well be dropped. It's playable after all. 13:04:16 <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (Ammler) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/56#change-72 13:04:17 <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Support #57: Skipping version 2.03 (Ammler) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/57 13:04:18 <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Support #57: Skipping version 2.03 (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/57#change-73 13:07:36 <planetmaker> Ammler, and how is making available as a function of company supposed to work? 13:08:19 <Ammler> dunno 13:08:21 <Ammler> :-) 13:08:45 <Ammler> I just know, nars2 has company dependend liveries 13:09:12 <Ammler> I guess, not possible. 13:12:03 <Ammler> which link do you prefer for the changeset view? 13:12:11 <planetmaker> ? 13:12:11 <Ammler> hte one to redmine or gitweb? 13:12:37 <planetmaker> which is what? 13:12:50 <Ammler> is2 log is gitweb 13:13:03 <Ammler> mz.openttdcoop.org/hg... 13:14:22 <planetmaker> well. I find websters update message too long 13:14:48 <planetmaker> thoug... the last one is two messages. They should IMO be seperate messages 13:14:59 <Ammler> oh 13:15:26 <Ammler> don't take the bot to your vote :-) 13:16:17 <Ammler> @rss announce --remove dev 13:16:17 <Webster> Ammler: The operation succeeded. 13:16:36 <Ammler> @rss remove dev 13:16:36 <Webster> Ammler: The operation succeeded. 13:19:10 <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/55 13:20:02 <Ammler> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/hg/2cctrainset/rev/c0357643433c 13:20:12 <Ammler> which one would you like more? 13:21:41 <planetmaker> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/hg/2cctrainset/rev/c0357643433c <-- that's what I like better. The other though has better linking to the whole project 13:22:22 <Ammler> btw. a nice commit ;-) 13:22:37 <planetmaker> :P 13:22:52 <planetmaker> btw, the link doesn't point to the devzone, but to the blog 13:22:59 <Ammler> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/hg/2cctrainset/rev/55 <-- works too 13:23:24 <Ammler> blog? 13:24:29 <planetmaker> link in the upper right 13:24:53 <planetmaker> title line: #openttdcoop Development Zone2cctrainset / changeset 13:24:59 <planetmaker> title line: #openttdcoop Development Zone 13:28:10 <Ammler> oh, indeeed, that could be changed now :-) 13:28:44 <Ammler> the templates for that are in /home/oftc/hg-templates 13:31:02 <Ammler> hmm, now I need a proper sed for 13:31:19 <planetmaker> well. actually I don't really think it needs changing from where it is now 13:31:25 <planetmaker> s/where/what/ 13:31:39 <Ammler> the link? 13:31:42 <planetmaker> the diff is available at http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/55 13:31:46 <planetmaker> just as well 13:32:19 <Ammler> alos annotate is available 13:34:18 <Ammler> hmm, actually, I have another idea for the template :-) 13:34:27 <planetmaker> :P 13:36:22 <Ammler> the cgi thing is a lot slower than redmine 13:50:10 <planetmaker> he 13:56:16 <Brot> [DevZone] Mercurial Templates - Revision 0: Initial import of the default templates from Mercurial package. (ottdc@mozart) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/hg-templates/repository/revisions/0 13:56:17 <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/56#change-74 14:08:16 <Brot> [DevZone] Mercurial Templates - Revision 1: -Tile link to www.openttdcoop.org (ottdc@mozart) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/hg-templates/repository/revisions/1 14:29:16 <Brot> [DevZone] #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: Mercurial (#2) (Ammler) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/16/wiki/Mercurial?version=2 14:32:16 <Brot> [DevZone] #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: VCS (#3) (Ammler) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/16/wiki/VCS?version=3 17:53:16 <Brot> [DevZone] Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 12125: [IS] Fix the open issues in HandleSharingChange regardin... (Hirundo) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/is2/repository/revisions/12125 17:53:17 <Brot> [DevZone] Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 12126: [IS] Fix a compile warning. (Hirundo) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/is2/repository/revisions/12126 17:53:18 <Brot> [DevZone] Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 12127: [IS] Fix another compile warning. (Hirundo) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/is2/repository/revisions/12127 19:23:16 <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (DJNekkid) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/56#change-75 19:30:38 *** DJNekkid has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:30:43 <DJNekkid> hi all :) 19:50:01 <Ammler> DJ 19:50:52 <Ammler> Bug: 13 open / 18 19:51:19 <Brot> [DevZone] Infrastructure Sharing - Bug #8 (Closed): Code issues in HandleSharingChange (Hirundo) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/8#change-76 19:52:16 <planetmaker> heya 19:52:39 <planetmaker> DJNekkid, don't you think that we could oceania integrate into asia, concerning regional parameters? 19:52:48 <planetmaker> the we could do with just one parameter... 19:53:06 <planetmaker> that said, I think I have quite an idea how to query for that. 20:02:32 <DJNekkid> i saw the post on redmine 20:02:37 <DJNekkid> dunno if u saw my awnser? 20:02:55 <planetmaker> yes, I did :) 20:03:15 <planetmaker> my point is: why have three param, if we can have one :) 20:03:33 <DJNekkid> then i think we rather should incorporate something else 20:03:34 <planetmaker> and it's not like oceania has many vehicles anyway 20:03:52 <DJNekkid> its not like africa, south america og asia have either :) 20:04:00 <planetmaker> concerning regional switches something else? 20:04:25 <planetmaker> yes. And asia and oceanea could be the same in principle... 20:06:07 <DJNekkid> hmm... 20:07:07 <DJNekkid> im more bound to make that to keep the european regions, north america and ocania, and remove asia, south america and africa, add 3rd world and japan 20:07:11 <DJNekkid> to a total of 8 20:07:24 <DJNekkid> merge s-am, africa and asia 20:07:37 <planetmaker> I wouldn't use the term "3rd world". 20:07:38 <DJNekkid> as neither have many engines in the first place 20:07:45 <DJNekkid> me either, but u get the drift :) 20:08:16 <planetmaker> well... or let's make two: one parameter for the continents. And a 2nd which is in effect, if you choose to have Europe 20:10:04 <DJNekkid> if u know what to do, be my guest :) 20:10:39 <DJNekkid> tbh, i dont know what we are doing with this parameter system anyway... 20:10:54 <planetmaker> well. I *think* I could do it as I *think* that I kinda understood what the wiki said about conditional sprite usage. 20:11:35 <planetmaker> I was looking at it the other day in order to remove the water from the flatbed wagon. 20:11:45 <planetmaker> Turned out unnecessary, but still. I learnt something :) 20:11:51 <DJNekkid> hehe 20:15:07 <DJNekkid> anyway 20:15:17 <DJNekkid> i'll talk to purno if i get a hold of him one day 20:15:57 <DJNekkid> and atleast get him to poll the 2cc thread, if the regions thingy is very usefull 20:15:58 <planetmaker> well. with two parameters, continents (and maybe oceania) and a special one for Europe, the principle availability things need not be changed 20:16:25 <DJNekkid> i mean, nearly all regions of the world have some kind of trianset... 20:16:27 <planetmaker> I'm just a bit... well... worried about parameter inflation. 20:17:01 <DJNekkid> frankly, i dont like parameters much myself 20:17:12 <DJNekkid> too much stuff that can go wrong 20:17:42 <planetmaker> well. I never used them. But it shouldn't add much trouble. Just conditional skipping of the subsequent sprites. No hurt afaik 20:18:01 <DJNekkid> easier to jump to waypoint, but still 20:18:32 <planetmaker> well. or that 20:18:40 <planetmaker> true 20:19:32 <DJNekkid> i did send purno a offline tell on msn 20:19:39 <DJNekkid> so i'll get an awnser at some point... 20:19:44 <planetmaker> ok :) 20:20:27 <DJNekkid> but there are more logical choises if we merge 20:20:41 <DJNekkid> south europe could go to partially western and eastern 20:21:03 <DJNekkid> spain + italy to western, turkey (iirc) to eastern 20:21:04 <planetmaker> well... could. But Europe has the WAY most trains anyway 20:21:21 <DJNekkid> you mean, western europe have most trains 20:21:28 <DJNekkid> with eastern on a good 2nd place 20:21:33 <DJNekkid> and scandinavia on 3rd 20:21:39 <DJNekkid> a rough guesstimate 20:21:54 <planetmaker> yeah, somewhat 20:22:19 <DJNekkid> but i've got a feeling we should add a kind of generic type as well 20:22:39 <DJNekkid> i mean, there are way to many trains in the set that are more a "type" then a specific train 20:22:40 <DJNekkid> i.e. 20:22:50 <DJNekkid> BM93 from norway... thats a "talent" 20:22:56 <DJNekkid> the Lint41 20:23:14 <DJNekkid> also a model from some kind of factory, that is widely used 20:23:24 <planetmaker> you mean that they're used all over the world? 20:23:29 <DJNekkid> more or less 20:23:36 <DJNekkid> atleast all over europe 20:23:44 <DJNekkid> Lets say we add the Stadler Flirt... 20:24:21 <DJNekkid> should it be a german 460 or something, swiss RBHD-whatever-they-call-it, a norwegian BM9x or 7x, or a finnish SM5 ? 20:24:33 <planetmaker> hehe :) 20:24:45 <DJNekkid> atleast with the sets current scheme, where all trains have no limits on length and sutch 20:24:48 <DJNekkid> such 20:25:09 <planetmaker> well... I'm comfortable with no length limitation on the trains. 20:25:16 <DJNekkid> i am too 20:25:40 <planetmaker> different people different playing style :) - and we can support that :) 20:25:50 <planetmaker> We don't need to adopt mb's attitude there 20:25:52 <DJNekkid> yup 20:26:00 <DJNekkid> the dutchset will be quite different btw 20:26:15 <DJNekkid> there ALL MU's will be fixed sized articulated engines 20:26:27 <DJNekkid> and different lengths will be only a refit 20:26:55 <planetmaker> what? that's... quite restrictive... 20:27:05 <DJNekkid> they want realism :) 20:27:14 <DJNekkid> but it's quite fun actually :) 20:27:20 <planetmaker> make it a parameter :P 20:27:26 <DJNekkid> no way! 20:27:29 <DJNekkid> hehe 20:27:29 <planetmaker> no_realism parameter :) 20:28:03 <DJNekkid> the grapichs are complicated as it is... 20:28:10 <DJNekkid> that would be in a 3.0 version or something 20:28:46 <DJNekkid> the ICM alone were about 400 lines of code 20:28:58 <DJNekkid> with 32 different spritesets 20:29:12 <planetmaker> ups... A LOT! 20:29:29 <DJNekkid> aye 20:30:03 <DJNekkid> but back to the 2cc set :) 20:30:08 <planetmaker> :) 20:31:36 <planetmaker> do we actually consider the game difficulty in the costs of this set? 20:32:56 <planetmaker> and another idea I had: adding support for GRM. 20:33:11 <planetmaker> but that's... quite advanced, I think 20:35:38 <planetmaker> I'll be back in a few minutes. 20:37:03 <DJNekkid> 1... game difficulty ... im not sure, but i dont think, if its possible to read that in grf... 20:37:10 <DJNekkid> GRM ... ? 20:37:19 <DJNekkid> grapichal resource managemant iirc 20:37:29 <DJNekkid> why is that needed? 20:37:48 <DJNekkid> the set is for openttd, where we already have nearly unlimited vehicle IDs anyway 20:38:18 <DJNekkid> GRM is afaik for reserveing some vehicle ID's if two sets are loded simultainiasly in ttdp... 20:39:06 <DJNekkid> so lets say one have added three kinds of roadvehicle sets, one can have it's focus on trams, one can have on trucks, and one on busses 20:40:24 <Ammler> hmm, but compatiblity to other sets might be a idea 20:40:37 <DJNekkid> in what terms? 20:40:48 <DJNekkid> running costs? purch prices? 20:41:01 <Ammler> yep, so they match other sets 20:41:26 <DJNekkid> that is an IMMENSE job! 20:41:31 <Ammler> :-) 20:41:48 <DJNekkid> it would actually be easier to change the costs of the other sets with this set :) 20:42:23 <DJNekkid> if <grf id of this or that set is loaded> <use theese action 0's> 20:42:47 <Ammler> that is what I meant 20:42:56 <DJNekkid> point is ... 20:43:06 <DJNekkid> thoose action0's are for the "other set" 20:44:34 <DJNekkid> because, the running costs for the 2cc set are defined more then 1 place 20:49:00 <planetmaker> back 20:49:01 <planetmaker> did I miss something since I left? 20:49:16 <DJNekkid> and, it seems like the (two) other ("large") train coders dont have too much will to let their sets be compatible to other sets 20:49:20 <DJNekkid> MB and pikka 20:49:45 <DJNekkid> heck, NARS and URKS arent compatible with eachother 20:49:46 <planetmaker> yeah. Unfortunately. I find it a pity. 20:50:31 <planetmaker> well. There's still the Japan one, it's big, too. canset is... very special. No one cares about compatibility... :( 20:50:43 <planetmaker> but, then, I think we could actually go for that :) 20:50:52 <planetmaker> and e.g. make dutch set and 2cc compatible :) 20:51:10 <DJNekkid> all my future sets will be compatible to each other 20:51:20 <planetmaker> :) 20:51:35 <planetmaker> and GRM looks like it could help a bit. 20:51:44 <planetmaker> Though it's not _the_ solution in my eyes either. 20:51:47 <DJNekkid> what is this GRM thing anyway? 20:51:54 <planetmaker> graphics resource management 20:52:00 <DJNekkid> but u see pm 20:52:17 <planetmaker> e.g. you can declare certain things occupied by a grf and check for them being occupied by others 20:52:25 <planetmaker> e.g. base costs and stuff 20:52:36 <DJNekkid> the main problem with compatibility with the 2cc set and the other sets are the way i've coded the running costs... 20:52:45 <planetmaker> yes. 20:52:55 <planetmaker> wait. 20:52:59 <planetmaker> running costs? 20:53:05 <DJNekkid> because, most other sets have the 3 running cost types to the same value 20:53:21 <DJNekkid> and, they set all diesel engines use diesel running cost base 20:53:28 <DJNekkid> electric to electric 20:53:28 <DJNekkid> etc 20:53:55 <DJNekkid> but, to let this set be able to have its "nice and high" running costs, that ment a sacrifice to the running cost resolution 20:54:30 <DJNekkid> so, one of the running cost bases are 2-3 steps higher (4 or 8x) then the other 20:54:55 <DJNekkid> and all engines that need a low running cost, also need a better resolution, so that many engines dont cost exactly the same to run 20:55:11 <DJNekkid> but when it's getting above a certain level, its a big limit anyway 20:55:33 <DJNekkid> take a TGV for example. it have, lets say, 100k running cost 20:56:00 <DJNekkid> but two low speed low power engines may be "around" 10k, both of then 20:56:15 <DJNekkid> but one might be 9875 and the other 10350 20:56:34 <DJNekkid> and if both of them were exactly 10k, it would look kinda wierd 20:56:40 <planetmaker> hm... yes 20:56:45 <DJNekkid> and the same goes for _most_ MU's 20:57:05 <DJNekkid> they lay in the "low cost, high resolution" area 20:57:26 <planetmaker> but... could we make that a switch? Like if we find one other train set, we forget about the high and nice running costs...? 20:57:36 <planetmaker> well. that happens anyway, if they're loaded after us, right? 20:58:24 <DJNekkid> while the higher powered, higher speed engines, lay in "low resolution, high cost" area 20:59:04 <DJNekkid> and to top that 20:59:18 <DJNekkid> on all MUs are the MU wagons running cost edited... 21:04:19 <planetmaker> he... yeah. Makes sense 21:04:37 <DJNekkid> but... im off to bed now... 21:04:45 <planetmaker> ok. good night to you :) 21:05:04 <DJNekkid> but, if all other sets would use diesel as running base, we would not have a problem :) 21:05:07 <DJNekkid> tty 2morrow 21:06:18 <planetmaker> well... *the solution* would be real base costs. A grf-specific base cost modifier. And then all costs relative 21:06:37 <planetmaker> the base cost modifier should be possible to set via parameter. 21:06:49 <planetmaker> then it'd be easy to make sets compatible. But not possible now 21:13:08 *** DJNekkid has quit IRC 21:34:29 <Brot> [DevZone] Coopetition ladder - Feature #59: Login/registration (XeryusTC) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/59 21:37:18 <Brot> [DevZone] Coopetition ladder - Feature #60: Team management (XeryusTC) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/60 21:37:19 <Brot> [DevZone] Coopetition ladder - Feature #61: Ladders (XeryusTC) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/61 21:38:14 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 21:40:20 <Brot> [DevZone] Coopetition ladder - Feature #62: Shedule (XeryusTC) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/62 21:43:19 <Brot> [DevZone] Coopetition ladder - Bug #63: Shedule drawing broken (XeryusTC) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/63 21:56:18 <Brot> [DevZone] Coopetition ladder - Bug #64: Games (XeryusTC) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/64 21:56:19 <Brot> [DevZone] Coopetition ladder - Bug #64: Games (XeryusTC) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/64#change-81 21:56:45 <XeryusTC> blah, highlights all over the place:o 21:57:06 <planetmaker> hehe :) 22:00:51 *** Mark is now known as Guest3213 22:00:56 *** Mark has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:01:27 *** Guest3213 has quit IRC 22:08:18 <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Revision 56: Change: document the white space in the names of engines and wagons ... (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/56 22:08:19 <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Revision 57: Fix #47: add the default language header also to the German language (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/57 22:08:20 <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Bug #47 (Closed): add default language header to German translation (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/47#change-82