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01:33:22 <Brot6> Backup done! (Usage: 56M) 01:33:22 <Brot6> It was a JOKE!! Get it?? I was receiving messages from DAVID LETTERMAN!! YOW!! 05:50:39 *** DJNekkid has quit IRC 06:58:07 *** DJNekkid has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:10:35 *** DJ_Nekkid has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:14:32 *** DJNekkid has quit IRC 07:17:54 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:18:41 *** DJNekkid has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:19:16 *** DJ_Nekkid has quit IRC 07:59:18 *** DJ_Nekkid has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:03:28 *** DJNekkid has quit IRC 08:06:40 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:07:23 *** DJ_Nekkid has quit IRC 08:11:34 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:14:02 *** DJNekkid has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:14:38 <DJNekkid> go damn it ... im starting to turn out to a "newgrf knowitall bitch" 08:14:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DJNekkid 08:16:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Ammler 08:17:01 <Ammler> hmm 08:17:32 <Ammler> he, morning DJNekkid 08:17:40 <Ammler> so we need to call you Guru? 08:18:43 <Ammler> this chanserv is just mäh 08:18:46 <andythenorth> bleargh pixels 08:18:47 <Ammler> @deop 08:18:47 *** Webster sets mode: -o Ammler 08:19:08 <Ammler> no idea, why i opped me. 08:19:14 <Ammler> it* 08:25:16 <DJNekkid> lol 08:25:23 <DJNekkid> no you dont need to call be guru 08:25:38 <DJNekkid> i just notice that when i see people talk about newgrf/nfo in the forums im starting to get bitchy 08:26:42 <Ammler> true 08:26:57 <DJNekkid> hehe! 08:27:16 <DJNekkid> i.e. im turning out to be something i hated... 08:27:18 <Ammler> well, you said it self :-) 08:28:05 <DJNekkid> well, it's good that i actually noticed it... 08:28:07 <DJNekkid> then i can do something about it! 08:28:17 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #214: the P-list looks quite boring ... gray :) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/214 (by DJNekkid) 08:28:36 <DJNekkid> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=43952&view=unread#unread 08:28:42 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Narrow Gauge Locos for Tram Ways (at www.tt-forums.net) 08:28:52 <DJNekkid> _where_ can one set max reliability??? :p 08:32:17 <Ammler> DJNekkid: did you op yourself? 08:32:29 <DJNekkid> yes 08:32:40 <Ammler> did you op me? 08:32:59 <DJNekkid> yes 08:32:59 <DJNekkid> :p 08:33:20 <Ammler> oh, that explains, then I don't to complain about chanserv ;-) 08:33:38 <DJNekkid> OP's get more pussy 08:34:44 <Ammler> :-o 08:35:12 <Ammler> I am master here :-D 08:35:22 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 133: Added B717-200 to TT @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/133 (by Beardie27) 08:39:12 <DJNekkid> hehe 08:39:15 <DJNekkid> hmm ... 08:39:22 <DJNekkid> im wondering if i can get this to work! 08:43:23 <DJNekkid> did u see the QR narrow guage thingy btw? 08:47:59 <Ammler> will you add that to the 2cc set? 08:48:10 <DJNekkid> no! 08:48:10 <DJNekkid> far from it 08:48:12 <DJNekkid> hehe 08:48:30 <DJNekkid> i just had half an hour on a ferry yesterday.... 08:48:42 <DJNekkid> so i thought "lets make that thing for him" ... 08:48:48 <DJNekkid> so i wrote it basicly from the top of my head 08:48:59 <DJNekkid> and everything worked as intended the first compile 08:49:03 <DJNekkid> i were quite impressed of myself :) 08:52:14 <Ammler> :P 08:52:40 <DJNekkid> not only that, the code is pretty much perfectly commented :) 08:52:57 <Ammler> that is true, I checked the nfo 08:53:02 <planetmaker> good day folks :) 08:53:03 <Ammler> very nice, 08:53:18 <DJNekkid> hi planetmaker :) 08:53:24 <Ammler> wb planetmaker 08:53:51 <planetmaker> you have a lovely home country, Ammler :) 08:55:04 <Ammler> how you know, you just drove through 08:55:20 <Ammler> :-( 08:55:33 <planetmaker> well. What I see looks at least like :) 08:55:44 <planetmaker> But I'm kinda hooked to find out :) 08:56:02 <planetmaker> whether it's only looks or whether it's also lovely beyond that superficial look I got :) 08:56:34 <Ammler> :-) 08:56:49 <Ammler> how was the wedding trip? 09:00:01 <planetmaker> it was an awesome thing. 09:00:54 <planetmaker> the journey itself, though, of course, is a bit exhausting. When we drove back, we started the engine at 6:30h am and I was home at 23:30h 09:01:09 <planetmaker> the traffic around Milano just sucks :) 09:01:22 <planetmaker> The time in and around Pisa, the wedding itself - very great :) 09:02:24 <planetmaker> Italian weddings are different from ours, though :) - and it's not only the language :P 09:03:27 <DJNekkid> planetmaker: you got married to an italian girl, or you attended an italian wedding? 09:03:38 <planetmaker> and the weather is really different from here... we started at a rainy day and we arrived at a rainy day. And in Pisa the weather is... just fine 09:03:49 <planetmaker> DJNekkid, I just attended the wedding of a friend of mine. 09:03:57 <planetmaker> A Dutch friend of mine actually :) 09:04:10 <DJNekkid> oki :) 09:05:30 <planetmaker> The food is amazing and the ceremony was also quite nice as was the reception in a nice mediteranean villa with a view over the whole town :) 09:06:37 <DJNekkid> sounds cheap :P 09:09:13 <planetmaker> hehe. I've no idea. But just awesome :) I'd love to live there :) 09:09:38 <planetmaker> maybe as summer residence. 09:09:57 <DJNekkid> we have a saying in norway ... "borte bra, men hjemme best" translates pretty directly to something like "Away is good, but home is best" 09:13:24 <planetmaker> :) 09:13:48 <planetmaker> yeah. The temperatures are too hot for me for long-term exposure ;) 09:14:11 <planetmaker> I'm rather at home with North European temperatures :) 09:14:30 <planetmaker> They have there like 30°C and no clouds right now... 09:14:35 <Ammler> planetmaker: the weather was nice here too :P 09:14:44 <planetmaker> But the mediteranean was nice swimming on Sunday :) 09:14:47 <Ammler> that wasn't because of the trip 09:14:53 <DJNekkid> 30c is rather perfect imho... 09:15:07 <DJNekkid> but not too much more... 09:15:08 <planetmaker> DJNekkid, 20°C is perfect :P 09:15:26 <DJNekkid> not if its windy :p 09:15:37 <Ammler> I agree to pm 09:15:51 <planetmaker> DJNekkid, also then :) 09:16:09 <Ammler> well, maybe some more, but 30 isn't nice anymore 09:16:26 <Ammler> specially if you work in a office without clima control 09:17:17 <planetmaker> A temperature is too warm, when I'm sweating and removing further clothes would be indecent :) 09:18:14 <DJNekkid> true! 09:18:43 <planetmaker> hehe :) And that condition is certainly reached for nearly any weather condition with T>25°C 09:19:33 <planetmaker> unless I'm only lying in a net, spanned between two palm trees and served cold drinks by hot chicks. Or alike :P 09:19:45 <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/clientpatches <-- thought about making patch queue repo, but it isn't compatible with. 09:20:28 <planetmaker> hehe. re-write autostart to use hg instead of svn :) 09:20:55 <DJNekkid> how come glasses always get dirty? 09:21:42 <DJNekkid> and, how come purno actually draw a sprite too large? :) 09:25:18 <Ammler> [11:20] <planetmaker> hehe. re-write autostart to use hg instead of svn <-- austostart could use -p1 for now 09:26:49 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #214: the P-list looks quite boring ... gray :) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/214#change-464 (by athanasios) 09:28:34 <planetmaker> Ammler, that might be an idea, yes. Or rather: make it a config entry. 09:28:50 <planetmaker> like PATCH_LEVEL = {0|1} 09:28:57 <Ammler> planetmaker: me and andythenorth found another downside of the revision number in the release dir 09:29:06 <planetmaker> hm? 09:29:16 <planetmaker> which rev no? of hg? 09:29:31 <Ammler> speaking about your Makefile 09:29:51 <planetmaker> the rev no I extract via hg then, yes? 09:30:06 <Ammler> if you have a running openttd with the grf, you need to restart openttd for every version change 09:30:17 <Ammler> wouldn't be needed, else. 09:30:30 <planetmaker> please elaborate. I don't get it. 09:31:28 <Ammler> as long as you don't commit, it is fine, as every grf will have same rev XXM, but when you commit, you need to restart openttd 09:32:10 <planetmaker> I still don't get it. 09:32:20 <planetmaker> commit what where when? 09:32:28 <planetmaker> and what is "every grf"? 09:32:34 <Ammler> change of the grf, you are developing on 09:33:31 <planetmaker> ? 09:33:33 <Ammler> dont find "every grf" in my 09:33:38 <Ammler> comments 09:33:48 <Ammler> menno 09:34:00 <Ammler> if you make a grf and load it in openttd 09:34:09 <planetmaker> yes. It finds *some* version 09:34:23 <Ammler> what heppens, if you change the grf? 09:34:31 <Ammler> with a commit? 09:34:32 <planetmaker> unless things are within a tar file. then it should find *all* 09:34:52 <planetmaker> I don't change the grf file which openttd accesses with a commit. 09:35:13 <Ammler> at least, andy and I needs to restart 09:35:15 <planetmaker> well... I *could* have a different one with same name... yes 09:35:17 <DJNekkid> are u talking about the name in the grflist? 09:35:24 <planetmaker> ^^ 09:35:41 <planetmaker> hm..... food here. 09:36:22 <Ammler> well, we thought about making a dev flag, which does crate a folder like <grf>-dev 09:36:27 <DJNekkid> should not need to restart... 09:36:27 <DJNekkid> io just click "apply" 09:36:35 <Ammler> but imo, I see no use for having the revision in the folder. 09:36:54 <Ammler> DJNekkid: if the filename changed? 09:37:11 <Ammler> as it does after commit 09:37:21 <DJNekkid> oh... 09:37:50 <DJNekkid> remove, rescan, add new, apply? 09:39:00 <DJNekkid> should work most times 09:44:18 <DJNekkid> did my connection drop? 10:30:10 *** DJNekkid has quit IRC 10:30:25 *** DJNekkid has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:42:12 <Ammler> DJNekkid: no, we just ignore you now :P 10:42:52 <Ammler> your suggestion is as ugly as restart, almost. 10:43:07 <Ammler> imo, it should be possible to just "reapply" 10:45:11 <planetmaker> Ammler, a new grf is found, if placed in the data folder. At least here. 10:45:20 <planetmaker> just hit "rescan file list" 10:45:44 <Ammler> well, but that could change to a random other version, either, 10:45:58 <Ammler> anyway, resacn is as ugly as restart, if it works. 10:46:08 <planetmaker> with what OpenTTD version did you test? 10:46:50 <Ammler> me? 10:47:28 <Ammler> it doesn't work will all versions I know 10:47:58 <Ammler> and imo, it isn't a bug, openttd can't know, which version it should take, you should know that :P 10:48:35 <planetmaker> it can. It can take the one with the newest time stamp. 10:48:52 <Ammler> does it? 10:49:05 <planetmaker> in lack of a better (minor newgrf version), it's IMO the best solution. Dunno whether it does. But it could 10:49:17 <Ammler> hmm, that would be a nice idea, imo. 10:50:35 <Ammler> well, but that wouldn't solve our issue. 10:51:09 <Ammler> it woudn't reload the new grf, if the old still is there, which is with the revision in the name. 10:51:19 <planetmaker> what exactly is the issue? That the grf isn't loaded anew? 10:51:39 <DJNekkid> the names dont update 10:51:45 <planetmaker> "revision in the name" is like heqs-nightly-r13? 10:51:49 <Ammler> yes 10:52:01 <planetmaker> And you're sure it doesn't use the new one, if you overwrite it? 10:52:07 <DJNekkid> you need to as i saied before i crash ... 10:52:10 <Ammler> if you make a new version, it won't load it as long as the old is around. 10:52:25 <DJNekkid> remove - rescan files - add new - apply 10:52:31 <DJNekkid> that way it will keep its name 10:52:38 <planetmaker> You must not have two identically named ones. UNLESS they're in differently named tars with different sub dirs. 10:52:39 <DJNekkid> i mean 10:52:43 <DJNekkid> update its name 10:52:59 <planetmaker> E.g. if you have the same name like mynewgrf.grf, you have to have a tar with a structure like 10:53:13 <planetmaker> blub.tar/mynewgrf_r13/myfancynewgrf.grf 10:53:20 <planetmaker> and then it will be unique and everything be found 10:53:28 <planetmaker> and afaik my makefile supports just that. 10:53:39 <planetmaker> Of course, it doesn't work, if you don't use tars. But why wouldn't you. 10:53:43 <Ammler> yeah, it shouldn't :P 10:53:49 <DJNekkid> you can also, in windows, have two stuff.grf, but in different locations 10:53:51 <Ammler> it should overwrite the old grf 10:54:02 <planetmaker> It doesn't. 10:54:13 <DJNekkid> .\ottd\data\stuff.grf and .\ottd\data\bleh\stuff.grf 10:54:17 <planetmaker> IF the grf is in a uniquely named dir inside the tar 10:54:22 <DJNekkid> both will be found in the newgrf list 10:54:34 <planetmaker> yes, DJNekkid :) 10:54:50 <planetmaker> And I still don't see the problem actually... 10:54:54 <DJNekkid> bleh.tar\rev100\cool.grf ... bleh.tar\rev101\cool.grf 10:55:02 <planetmaker> both will be found 10:55:03 <Ammler> yes, you do that with revision in the title, which is good 10:55:04 <DJNekkid> i dont even know what the problem is :p 10:55:16 <Ammler> but revision in the folder is the bad thing. 10:55:25 <planetmaker> Ammler, why? 10:55:29 <Ammler> ah 10:55:36 <DJNekkid> wou want stuff-rev100.grf 10:55:40 <Ammler> planetmaker: try it 10:55:41 <DJNekkid> and stuff-rev101.grf ? 10:55:46 <Ammler> DJNekkid: NO$ 10:55:56 <Ammler> iwant just newgrf.grf 10:56:02 <Ammler> or newgrf/newgrf.grf 10:56:03 <DJNekkid> with the rev in its name? 10:56:08 <planetmaker> Ammler, so, what _exactly_ does not work? 10:56:10 <Ammler> no rev at all nowhere 10:56:23 <DJNekkid> then what is the problem? 10:56:34 <planetmaker> Ammler, if you have no rev in the folder name, OpenTTD will pick a random one. 10:56:40 <Ammler> planetmaker: load a grf 10:56:41 <planetmaker> as the tar names are stripped from the path 10:56:46 <Ammler> in openttd 10:56:51 <Ammler> change something and commit 10:57:02 <Ammler> then hit apply in the newgrf window 10:57:15 <planetmaker> Commiting has no issue in this. 10:57:26 <Ammler> of course, as the commit changes the rev 10:57:36 <DJNekkid> so? 10:57:36 <planetmaker> yes. And then I have 10:57:49 <planetmaker> blub-r13.tar/blub-r13/mygrf.grf 10:57:54 <Ammler> else you would have exactly the same rev and it would reload 10:57:55 <planetmaker> blug-r14.tar/blub-r14/mygrf.grf 10:57:58 <planetmaker> and that works. 10:58:17 <planetmaker> at least last time I checked. 11:00:32 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 11:00:43 <Ammler> planetmaker: so you load blub13.grf 11:01:01 <DJNekkid> btw, make in windows gives a few errosr 11:01:05 <Ammler> and after you have blub14.grf, openttd does automatically switch ot that? 11:01:33 <DJNekkid> i thought u saied that the rev-number werent anywhere? 11:01:43 <DJNekkid> except in the grf-name 11:02:06 <Ammler> DJNekkid: it should be that way, but planetmaker prefers the rev number in the path 11:02:29 <DJNekkid> he on that :p 11:02:45 <Ammler> I didn't like it, as it is just bad practice, but didn't have a real reason to be against. 11:02:53 <Ammler> now I have a reason :-) 11:03:00 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 202: testing ammlers bug @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/202 (by DJNekkid) 11:03:29 <Ammler> DJNekkid: you don't need to push 11:03:40 <Ammler> you know, hg repo is dedicated :P 11:03:42 <DJNekkid> it will show up somewhere anyway :) 11:04:06 <DJNekkid> or if i pull stuff one of you make in 2 days and i do stuff in 3 days :) 11:04:20 <Ammler> he? 11:04:40 <Ammler> you know, you can easy rollback and strip 11:04:53 <DJNekkid> now i do 11:04:57 <Ammler> :P 11:05:22 <planetmaker> arg.... test commits?! 11:05:23 <DJNekkid> all i did were adding an (yet) unused file :) 11:05:38 <DJNekkid> but anyway: 11:06:04 <DJNekkid> if the newgrfname (ingame) changes, it will update the game with its changes 11:06:30 <Ammler> yes 11:06:30 <DJNekkid> but the name in the newgrf settings (add, remove, move up/down) dont change 11:06:50 <Ammler> hmm 11:07:00 <DJNekkid> for that you need to rescan 11:07:02 <Ammler> because you have the old now obsolete grf too 11:07:10 <planetmaker> well. I was explained by Rubi himself that the name in the path within the grf is absolutely necessary in order to have ALL versions of a grf accessible at the same time. 11:07:11 <DJNekkid> no i dont 11:07:12 <DJNekkid> its overwritten 11:07:17 <planetmaker> If it doesn't work, it's a bug. 11:07:24 <Ammler> planetmaker: yes 11:07:30 <Ammler> you need the bananas grfs 11:07:32 <Ammler> and our 11:07:33 <planetmaker> And I think we should adhere that behaviour 11:07:45 <Ammler> but we don't need ours to multiply to 11:07:46 <Ammler> o 11:07:54 <DJNekkid> anyway, im off for a while... shower and haircut *love days with little to do at work* 11:07:54 <planetmaker> ? 11:08:11 <Ammler> DJNekkid: shave? 11:08:13 <planetmaker> so you want to skip the different versions for nightlies? 11:08:27 <planetmaker> nah. I want to be able to have several concurrently. 11:08:36 <Ammler> planetmaker: we need to make a folder to different ours from the bananas grfs 11:08:44 <planetmaker> Forcefully overwriting them is bad practise 11:08:48 <Ammler> which will be done by banans, won't? 11:08:58 <planetmaker> uh? 11:09:01 <Ammler> planetmaker: then do that for you 11:09:07 <planetmaker> no 11:09:12 <Ammler> but the general user don't want that 11:09:13 <planetmaker> why do we need that? 11:09:21 <planetmaker> the general user doesn't build newgrfs 11:09:21 <Ammler> and a dev don't want that 11:09:34 <planetmaker> c'mon. 11:09:45 <Ammler> yes, so why should he need 10 different grf versions? 11:09:54 <planetmaker> comparison. 11:09:57 <Ammler> hmm 11:10:00 <Ammler> sorry 11:10:07 <Ammler> I give up 11:10:42 <planetmaker> I mean, why shouldn't we allow that? 11:10:58 <Ammler> he? 11:11:09 <Ammler> we don't allow that? 11:11:10 <planetmaker> so basically your issue is - I still haven't understood it really, I guess - that you end up with many newgrf in your newgrf dir? 11:11:27 <Ammler> no 11:11:48 <Ammler> but it is ok, I hope you will sometimes get the same issue as me and andy. 11:11:56 <Ammler> I will remember you then :P 11:12:01 <planetmaker> fail 11:12:05 <planetmaker> to explain. 11:12:26 <planetmaker> you throw snippets of sentences at me and I can puzzle. 11:12:39 <planetmaker> When I don't grasp the context and what you tried, it's my fault :( 11:12:41 <planetmaker> nice 11:12:57 <Ammler> never said, it is your fault 11:12:59 <planetmaker> make a decent problem description, maybe I'll understand then. 11:13:28 <Ammler> load a grf 11:13:38 <Ammler> change something 11:13:44 <Ammler> make 11:13:51 <Ammler> hit apply 11:14:02 <planetmaker> load: where? 11:14:04 <Ammler> (something not understandable)? 11:14:05 <planetmaker> change: where? 11:14:10 <planetmaker> something= what? 11:14:13 <planetmaker> apply: what? 11:14:15 <Ammler> oh, seems all :-) 11:14:18 <planetmaker> not understandable 11:14:27 <Ammler> load a grf in openttd 11:14:42 <planetmaker> in a game? 11:14:51 <Ammler> how do you load a game else? 11:14:56 <Ammler> grf* 11:14:56 <planetmaker> yes, ok 11:15:11 <planetmaker> and then you want to update the grf on a _running_ game? 11:15:19 <planetmaker> I mean running map? 11:15:43 <Ammler> now you change a offset or so of a sprite 11:15:54 <Ammler> then you commit that change and run make 11:16:04 <Ammler> then you hit apply. 11:16:10 <Ammler> in the newgrf window 11:16:18 <planetmaker> running make will have no influence on OpenTTD 11:16:36 <planetmaker> I'll need to make install or copy the tar or grf somewhere at least 11:16:41 <Ammler> oh please, don't say "changing newgrfs in a running game isn't supported" 11:16:45 <planetmaker> and it's crucial what this step is. 11:16:52 <planetmaker> of course, I say that. 11:17:15 <planetmaker> but the main point is, you skip what is important: what file do you add to the openttd data folder. 11:17:18 <planetmaker> make doesn't do anything 11:17:26 <Ammler> well, then I have lost anyway. 11:17:29 <planetmaker> except create a grf file in the grf dev directory 11:17:43 <planetmaker> make install will copy the tar file to the specified path. 11:17:51 <planetmaker> But I don't know what you do. 11:18:21 <planetmaker> You may have some funny symlinks, you may copy the grf itself (w/o path / tars), etc pp 11:18:31 <planetmaker> and THAT is what you constantly fail to explain. 11:18:33 <Ammler> well, that is how andy did it, and obviously that wouldn't work 11:18:40 <planetmaker> and THAT is what is what you have an issue with 11:19:00 <planetmaker> HOW DID you do it? you own word how it doesn't work? 11:19:01 <Ammler> I did with symlink to the project root, which doesn't work either. 11:19:24 <Ammler> that is why run only "make" 11:19:24 <planetmaker> so, please: make a walk-through for me with ALL information. 11:19:52 <Ammler> well, I really can't get you serious. 11:20:05 <Ammler> if you don't support loading newgrf on a running game, sorry. 11:20:19 <planetmaker> I don't know what your data directory looks like. 11:20:30 <planetmaker> And I don't know what you want to achieve. 11:20:51 <planetmaker> Both is kinda crucial, eh? 11:20:58 <Ammler> answer the question, do you support loading newgrf in a running game? 11:21:17 <Ammler> :-) 11:21:52 <Ammler> the whole discussion is useless, if you don't. 11:23:59 <planetmaker> That's solely an issue of OpenTTD and has nothing to do with me or you or newgrfs in particular 11:24:11 <planetmaker> and also not of grfdev or a makefile 11:24:19 <planetmaker> so: what is your goal? 11:24:25 <planetmaker> what do you want? 11:24:51 <planetmaker> (and I don't want to hear a solution, I want to hear what you want to achieve) 11:26:18 <planetmaker> and then the next step is: what do you *think* hinders you from reaching that goal 11:26:20 <Ammler> planetmaker: I would say 80% of all ps games have changed newgrfs in a running gam. 11:26:34 <planetmaker> and then the third step is: how do you think it could be solved 11:26:34 <Ammler> 100% of all mz and pz games 11:26:53 <DJNekkid> applying/changeing newgrfs in a running game does work ... most of the time 11:26:54 <planetmaker> Ammler, I know that. So what? What's the relation to the makefiles of mine? 11:27:07 <planetmaker> I see 0% relation. 11:27:24 <DJNekkid> if i change, lets say, something in the 2cc set 11:27:26 <Ammler> that is OT :-) 11:27:33 <planetmaker> arg. 11:27:37 <DJNekkid> i "make", copy it to the data-folder, and press "apply" 11:27:45 <DJNekkid> and the changes is made 11:28:05 <Ammler> I was just wondering about you saying, we don't support changing newgrfs :-P 11:28:05 <DJNekkid> but if the filename or placeing of that file changes, it wont be reflected in the game as the prev line does 11:28:23 <DJNekkid> and that seem to be the entire issue here 11:28:30 <planetmaker> not helpful, Ammler 11:28:37 <planetmaker> :( 11:29:01 <planetmaker> Only thing I learnt so far: you're dis-satisfied with *some* aspect of the makefile. I don't know why. 11:30:11 <Ammler> planetmaker: I am sorry, if you feel that way :-( 11:30:15 <planetmaker> then you tried to trap me in some pointless side-discussion... , not addressing your need, but only stating basically "doesn't work, if you do this". But not stating _what_ actually doesn't work. 11:31:18 <planetmaker> I really would like to understand. But then I need to understand your need. And not get a proposed solution for *something*. 11:31:26 <Ammler> maybe if andy will explain you his issue, you are open to listen. 11:32:03 <planetmaker> I'm open to listen to you, too. Of course 11:32:25 <Ammler> and if that will fail either, I will open a bug report next time I am trapped with. 11:32:27 <planetmaker> But when exactly what exact problem you have, I don't get. 11:33:01 <planetmaker> But please make a problem description. Not (only) a proposed solution. 11:33:09 <planetmaker> I can only guess. 11:33:24 <Ammler> that is what I did around 3 times here 11:33:39 <planetmaker> My guess is, that you want within a running game to update your newgrf to a newer version of the very same newgrf. 11:33:49 <DJNekkid> ! 11:33:55 <planetmaker> e.g. not removing one and adding the newer one. 11:34:06 <DJNekkid> ^^ 11:34:09 <Ammler> well, your Makefile doesn't remove 11:34:10 <planetmaker> But that's only an educated guess as I kinda think I know what you try 11:34:22 <planetmaker> use make clean 11:34:25 *** DJNekkid has quit IRC 11:35:14 <Ammler> your make install is the only one I know, which installs in versioned mode. 11:35:30 <Ammler> usually you overwrite the older version with install 11:35:31 <planetmaker> install boost. 11:35:36 <planetmaker> install idl 11:35:45 <Ammler> nono 11:35:55 <planetmaker> install anything where older versions make sense. They change the symlink 11:35:57 <Ammler> that is like nars -> nars2 11:36:04 <planetmaker> boost -> boost_1_39_0 11:36:10 <planetmaker> but I still have boost_1_38_0 11:36:11 <planetmaker> etc 11:36:16 <planetmaker> just not sym-linked 11:36:53 <Ammler> well, install openttd :P 11:36:55 <planetmaker> or gcc 11:37:06 <planetmaker> or numerous others. They all only symlink 11:37:48 <Ammler> that is all not true, but 11:38:03 <Ammler> maybe it is on OSX, I don't have much experience 11:38:45 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:38:59 <planetmaker> well... if you have a dev environment with several, you usually do that. 11:39:57 <planetmaker> btw: suse does exactly that:lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2008-12-01 18:44 /usr/bin/gcc -> gcc-4.3 11:39:57 <planetmaker> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 210784 2008-06-06 20:43 /usr/bin/gcc-4.3 11:40:33 <planetmaker> your turn ;) 11:40:35 <Ammler> planetmaker: yes 11:40:44 <Ammler> but if you update to 4.3.something 11:41:03 <Ammler> it does overwrite 4.3.x with 4.3.something 11:41:03 <planetmaker> it'd keep it, if I'd install gcc 4.4 11:41:20 <planetmaker> it'd not keep bug fix releases 11:41:57 <planetmaker> even so, asked a 3rd(?) time: what's the actual issue? 11:41:58 <Ammler> well, nvm., that is OT, either. 11:42:32 <Ammler> what didn't you get on the scenario I made? 11:43:39 <Ammler> anyway, the issue is just an issue, if you accept support for changing grfs in a running game. ;-) 11:44:28 <planetmaker> so... what you want is to overwrite the newgrf by name etc pp so that in a _running_ game the newgrf updates? 11:44:36 <planetmaker> not just upon map load? 11:44:52 <Ammler> but on the other side, IMO, the Makefile should be mainly for dev 11:45:01 <planetmaker> yes, it should 11:45:31 <planetmaker> others don't need it. 11:45:53 <Ammler> and for dev, you need "manual" work 11:46:00 <Ammler> with moving and renaming, now. 11:46:21 <planetmaker> the makefile is there to make things for you. But still: what do you want: 11:46:41 <Ammler> I mean, that is ok, can be done by script, I just don't see the need for 1000 different versions of the same grf in my data folder 11:47:05 <planetmaker> to have openttd use automagically the new version by just hitting apply in the newgrf window of a running game without changing anything in the newgrf list? 11:47:21 <Ammler> a dev needs openttd to load always the newest grf 11:47:33 <planetmaker> Ammler, in order to remove the 1000 different versions, use make clean. That's what it is for 11:47:49 <planetmaker> it cleans all nightlies 11:47:52 <planetmaker> but not stables. 11:47:57 <Ammler> make clean doe cleanup the install folder? 11:48:04 <planetmaker> no. 11:48:09 <Ammler> that is kinda ugly :-o 11:48:10 <planetmaker> But you symlinked, didn't you? ;) 11:48:46 <Ammler> that is my "workaround" and what I suggested andy. 11:49:03 <Ammler> but IMO, the makefile could support it. 11:49:27 <Ammler> who will need make install then? 11:49:38 <planetmaker> no one :P 11:50:00 <Ammler> yes, so why not changing that behavior to make it useable for dev? 11:50:26 <planetmaker> so... usable = folder path doesn't bear revision name? 11:50:49 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 11:50:55 <planetmaker> may the tar names be different? 11:51:15 <planetmaker> e.g. revision13.tar/blub/mynew.grf 11:51:21 <planetmaker> revision14.tar/blub/mynew.grf? 11:52:38 <Ammler> hmm, isn't that the point? 11:53:02 <Ammler> if the tar is different, but the folder inside the same, if won't be loaded from openttd 11:53:22 <Ammler> so it needs to replace the old buggy version :-) 11:53:22 <planetmaker> it will... maybe. Dunno which :) 11:53:22 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:53:47 <planetmaker> so... you want make to overwrite a file called mygrf-nightly.tar/path/my.grf ? 11:54:07 <planetmaker> with path being the same w/o revision and the tar also w/o the revision? 11:54:09 <planetmaker> hm... 11:54:36 <Ammler> well, if you really need, you could add nightly or dev 11:55:00 <planetmaker> well. As long as the name stays the same, that's details. 11:55:04 <planetmaker> But not the issue ;) 11:55:13 <Ammler> name? 11:55:45 <Ammler> imo, we should care, that "our" version will be loaded beside bananas grfs 11:55:46 <planetmaker> whether the tar file is called heqs.tar or heqs-nightly.tar or heqs-dev.tar 11:55:53 <Ammler> but ONE, only. 11:56:17 <planetmaker> hm... 11:56:32 <Ammler> for save compatibilty, you still have the bananas 11:56:47 <planetmaker> I'll think about it :) 11:56:58 <planetmaker> Now I finally understand what you mean. 11:57:01 <planetmaker> and why. 11:57:05 <Ammler> and if someone liek you will keep 1000 different versions, he/you could make a special target for :P 11:57:13 <planetmaker> :P 11:57:22 <planetmaker> indeed one could 11:57:30 <planetmaker> make unique 11:57:32 <planetmaker> ;) 11:57:45 <Ammler> but the make or make install should make a easy one. 11:57:57 <planetmaker> Please add a task ;) 11:58:16 <Ammler> seriously? 11:58:23 <planetmaker> yes 11:58:25 <Ammler> bu 11:58:30 <planetmaker> Then I don't forget :P 11:58:46 <planetmaker> you know... my memory has serious similarities with sieves ;) 11:59:02 <planetmaker> and assigned tasks make me feel important :P 11:59:15 <Ammler> we could add the revision to the readme, like in opengfx 11:59:41 <Ammler> and we should also add the revision changelog 11:59:47 <Ammler> like the openttd compile farm 12:00:07 <Ammler> not sure, if that should be done by makefile or the compile farm 12:00:48 <planetmaker> the revision will remain in the displayed part of the newgrf. That what the user sees when in OpenTTD 12:00:56 <planetmaker> Of course, readme should have it, too, yes 12:01:18 <Ammler> yes, that is the revision which counts 12:01:30 <Ammler> but there should be access to it without need of loading in openttd 12:01:36 <Ammler> like ./findversion.sh 12:02:13 <Ammler> ignore last line. 12:45:05 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:00:16 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: #openttdcoop - Bug #215: Makefile shouldn't include release info to the file path (per default) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/215 (by Ammler) 13:14:29 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:22:52 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:29:36 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:33:14 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:04:02 <Brot6> 2cctrainset: Backup push to ssh://hg@bitbucket.org/OpenTTD/2cctrainset/ initiated. 14:59:16 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:10:55 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:35:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:15:22 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 16:18:02 <Brot6> OpenGFX: nightly compile not needed. (r72) 16:38:28 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #214: the P-list looks quite boring ... gray :) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/214#change-465 (by Frank) 16:44:40 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:46:09 *** Frankr has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:01:15 *** Beardie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:02:20 <Beardie> Hello, Ammler is there any way of puttinh a table on a wiki page? 17:09:40 <Ammler> Beardie: did you check the help? 17:10:04 <Ammler> maybe it would go with html tags, but don't know 17:15:26 <Beardie> Check the help, well on your site you dont have a wiki page on making a wiki page :p 17:15:42 <Beardie> "there was meant to be a ? after the word help" 17:18:16 <Ammler> there is: https://redmine.ammler.ch/help/wiki_syntax.html 17:18:22 <Ammler> but I didn't find something about 17:18:37 <Ammler> so it might be not possible 17:19:10 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:21:17 <Beardie> again it hates https :p 17:22:30 <Beardie> well you see why i would like it here 17:22:31 <Beardie> http://redmine.ammler.ch/projects/worldairlineset/wiki/Hex_Table 17:22:39 <Beardie> but its ok if i can't have it 17:24:28 <Hirundo> What can such a table do that \b \w and \d can't? 17:25:42 <planetmaker> hehe :) 17:25:48 <Beardie> probably not mush lol 17:25:51 <Beardie> much* 17:26:02 <Beardie> bur i some times forget hex numbers 17:26:25 <planetmaker> I think the point is: if you need it, use \b straight away as you'll have difficulties to understand it afterwards, if you convert it. 17:26:55 <Beardie> i like hex though :p 17:27:02 <planetmaker> and you can always use \b64 instead of 0x40 17:27:20 <Hirundo> @calc 0x40 17:27:20 <Webster> Hirundo: 64 17:27:27 <Hirundo> @hex 64 17:27:43 <planetmaker> @base 16 10 64 17:27:43 <Webster> planetmaker: 100 17:27:47 <planetmaker> hm... 17:27:52 <planetmaker> @base 10 16 64 17:27:52 <Webster> planetmaker: 40 17:27:52 <Hirundo> @base 10 16 64 17:27:53 <Webster> Hirundo: 40 17:27:57 <planetmaker> :) 17:28:06 <Beardie> ok you have proven me wrong, but the table is there now :p 17:28:26 * Hirundo hurrays and fetches a cookie ;) 17:29:19 *** Frankr has quit IRC 17:31:30 <Ammler> Beardie: using hex is geeky 17:31:34 <Beardie> lol 17:31:49 <Ammler> try to use escape sequences 17:32:14 <Beardie> sd 17:32:18 <Beardie> ? 17:32:28 <Beardie> my messages where not appearing then 17:32:34 <Beardie> any way 17:32:37 <Beardie> like /b etc 17:32:45 <Hirundo> \b 17:32:50 <Beardie> lol 17:32:57 <Beardie> /b etc 17:33:02 <Beardie> lol 17:33:04 <Beardie> \ 17:33:07 <Beardie> that symbol 17:33:16 <Hirundo> don't confuse 17:33:24 <Hirundo> / and \ 17:33:41 <Beardie> yes off course 17:33:52 <Beardie> anyway got to go, be back later 17:34:09 <Hirundo> don't confuse of and off, while you're at it ;) 17:34:13 <Ammler> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=GRFActionsDetailed <-- read that page 17:34:55 <Ammler> you should remove your wiki page, so nobody get the idea to use it ;-) 17:37:04 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:40:06 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #119: Sprite 270:270 (1) - Company statue @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/119#change-466 (by foobar) 17:48:30 <Ammler> is it somehow possible to replace a sprite of an other grf? 17:53:28 <Hirundo> As george how he made his censored version of LV4 17:53:36 <Hirundo> *As->Ask 17:54:12 <Ammler> no 17:54:22 <Ammler> you don't need to load both :P 17:55:10 <Ammler> I am not sure anymore, if we should make opengfx matching the openttd.grf 17:55:38 <Ammler> or just make a proper coded tar for 32bpp people 18:04:18 <Ammler> BTW. wiki has much more as it is linked from the help page: http://hobix.com/textile/#tables 18:04:19 <Webster> Title: Textile Reference (at hobix.com) 18:04:29 <Ammler> Beardie: ^ 18:10:28 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:12:25 *** FooBar_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:26:35 *** DJNekkid has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:07:42 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #208: Reorder ogfx_extra to keep sprite numbers equal to openttdw.grf to suppor... @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/208#change-467 (by foobar) 19:07:42 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Feature #217: Network Design Support and Experience System in OpenTTDcoo... @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/217 (by Phazorx) 19:13:14 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 134: Added Take off/Lnading/Taxing and Waiting Speed @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/134 (by Beardie27) 19:18:10 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #214: the P-list looks quite boring ... gray :) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/214#change-468 (by Beardie27) 19:18:10 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #188 (Assigned): Add Landing and take off Speeds to existing aircraft @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/188#change-469 (by Beardie27) 19:20:21 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenTTD - Feature #217: Network Design Support and Experience System in OpenTTDcoop [draft][WIP] @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/217 (by Phazorx) 19:20:21 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenTTD - Feature #217: Network Design Support and Experience System in OpenTTDcoop [draft][WIP] @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/217#change-471 (by Hirundo) 19:20:26 <DJNekkid> Beardie: do u know how to do that? 19:23:32 <Ammler> Hirundo: moved it out ;-) 19:24:53 <Beardie> DJNekkid do what again? 19:25:14 <DJNekkid> ¤188 19:25:16 <DJNekkid> #188 19:25:41 <Beardie> Well me a and frank have worked it out mostly 19:25:46 <Beardie> Callback 36 19:25:49 <Beardie> Fractional Speed 19:25:49 <DJNekkid> yes :) 19:26:12 <Beardie> Works like the E2 var, sprites at different positions 19:26:19 <DJNekkid> not really sprites 19:26:26 <Beardie> well no 19:26:28 <DJNekkid> E2 00 FF etc... 19:26:37 <DJNekkid> <speed> 80 <pos> <pos> 19:26:38 <Hirundo> Ammler: apart from all the coding difficulties, solving social non-problems with code is not-done IMO 19:26:44 <Beardie> different positions with different speeds 19:27:24 <Beardie> AF 80 12 12 //Tower contact Point (Initiating Approach) 19:27:34 <DJNekkid> i'll show you a bit later, kinda busy now 19:27:40 <Beardie> how does the AF work? 19:27:44 <Beardie> ok thats fine :) 19:28:01 <Beardie> no rush got other things to do 19:31:09 <Ammler> Beardie: did you get the link about tables in the wiki? 19:31:20 <Ammler> Hirundo: I didn't read it yet ;-) 19:31:25 <Ammler> just moved it away 19:31:43 <Ammler> but it seems, I was too late, you already answered ;-) 19:32:30 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 135: Fixed #213 - Concorde Sprite Missalignment, Greyscale.png/pcx... @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/135 (by Beardie27) 19:32:30 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Bug #213 (Closed): Concorde Sprite Missalignment @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/213#change-472 (by Beardie27) 19:36:04 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 132: Fixed #199 - Correctly Sorted B717-200 Greyscale.png Hence Added @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/132 (by Beardie27) 19:36:04 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #199 (Closed): Sort Boeing 717 Greyscale @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/199#change-462 (by Beardie27) 19:51:21 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #208: Reorder ogfx_extra to keep sprite numbers equal to openttdw.grf to suppor... @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/208#change-474 (by Ammler) 20:01:38 <Beardie> Ammler serve errors 20:01:42 <Beardie> we cna't connect 20:01:44 <Beardie> me or frank 20:02:25 <Beardie> hg pull -u = "no suitable repsonse from remote hg!" 20:03:11 <Ammler> try again? 20:03:27 <Beardie> works 20:03:28 <Beardie> now 20:03:37 <Beardie> i have had this message twice today 20:03:48 <Beardie> once about 1 and hlaf hours ago 20:03:58 <Beardie> still doesn't work for frank 20:05:42 <Beardie> now it works for frank 20:05:49 <Beardie> so what happen ammler ? 20:06:23 <Ammler> reaching some limits, it seems 20:06:28 <Ammler> checking what can cause it 20:06:30 <Beardie> o ok 20:07:15 *** Frankr has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:10:57 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 136: Started concorde speeds @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/136 (by Frank) 20:35:29 *** Phazorx has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:35:35 <Phazorx> evening 20:36:02 <Phazorx> Hirundo: #217 does not really have to do much with IS as of yet, i just put it in wrong place, thanks to ammler it is fixed 20:44:11 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:52:49 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #208 (Feedback): Reorder ogfx_extra to keep sprite numbers equal to openttdw.gr... @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/208#change-478 (by foobar) 20:53:51 <Beardie> Hello, i am having a problem with some code 20:54:07 <Beardie> i ran it thought renum and turn one of my lins into a comment 20:54:21 <Beardie> by adding // at the beginning of the line 20:54:47 <planetmaker> Beardie: where? Current was checkout? 20:55:10 <Beardie> current was checkout? 20:55:16 <Beardie> don't understand 20:55:26 <planetmaker> your was repository 20:55:41 <planetmaker> the current state of the newgrf as I can download using mercurial :) 20:56:03 <planetmaker> was = world airline set 20:56:08 <planetmaker> sorry :) 20:56:29 <Beardie> well the file is not in the repo 20:56:33 <planetmaker> a bit ambigeous abbreviation :) 20:56:34 <Beardie> i used a batch file to make it 20:56:41 <planetmaker> oh, right... 20:56:51 <planetmaker> hm... that won't work here, I guess 20:56:53 <Beardie> want my to put the resorted NFO on 20:57:05 <Beardie> i'll put it on 20:57:16 <Ammler> Beardie: there should be above that line a explaination, why it is wrong 20:57:31 <Beardie> onw minute 20:57:49 <Ammler> and you shouldn't use too many -w 20:58:51 <planetmaker> actually... best use none ;) 20:59:28 <andythenorth> hey hey planetmaker is back :) 20:59:47 <Beardie> WAS Repo sprites\was.nfo.new.nfo line 1807 20:59:51 <Beardie> There 20:59:54 <Beardie> its now online 21:00:39 <Beardie> :) 21:00:54 <planetmaker> I'll check 21:00:57 <Beardie> ty 21:01:29 <planetmaker> yeay. mercurial errors 21:02:19 <Beardie> that a good thing? lol 21:02:19 <andythenorth> Hirundo: so would it be useful if I added HP, weight etc to HEQS? I could do a couple of vehicles pretty quickly. 21:02:42 <planetmaker> Beardie: certainly not :) 21:03:03 <planetmaker> basically I couldn't update your repository 21:03:20 <Beardie> ok 21:03:29 <planetmaker> but I'm not giving up 21:03:33 <planetmaker> not yet 21:03:35 <Phazorx> planetmaker: can you enlighten me on IS2 features? 21:04:30 <planetmaker> Phazorx: well... you now have the option to allow other companies to use your infrastructure. You can allow it to individual companies. 21:05:08 <Phazorx> that's where it was 2 years ago more or less 21:05:10 <planetmaker> Configurable are rails, stations (all types), docks, depots and airport access 21:05:25 <planetmaker> yes, that's what it's now. But per company and WAY better code 21:05:27 <Phazorx> ahh.. so it is per station now rather than per company? 21:05:31 <planetmaker> no 21:05:34 <planetmaker> per company 21:05:48 <Phazorx> is it possible to take ownership of a structure? 21:05:50 <planetmaker> but you could allow others to use your tracks only, but not your stations 21:05:53 <planetmaker> nope 21:06:00 <Phazorx> are things like that planned? 21:06:18 <planetmaker> not till it is in trunk. 21:06:26 <Phazorx> is it trunkable? 21:06:30 <planetmaker> so basically not :) 21:06:40 <planetmaker> Phazorx: that you have to ask the devs. 21:06:47 <Phazorx> arent you the dev? 21:06:48 <planetmaker> it's IMO well coded 21:07:01 <planetmaker> No, Hirundo codes the patch. 21:07:06 <Phazorx> i see 21:07:35 <Phazorx> i can see some uses for thigns changing owners 21:07:44 <planetmaker> and "the devs" of OpenTTD have to judge whether it's trunk worthy. That's not up to Hirundo either. 21:07:47 <Phazorx> especialy applied to coop ideas 21:07:54 <planetmaker> Phazorx: so can we. But it's not essential 21:07:54 <Phazorx> i understand 21:08:12 <planetmaker> and minimal patches are easier to maintain and easier to make trunk-worthy. 21:08:14 <Phazorx> well nothing is essentialy... aside of steam bubles on steam engines 21:08:31 <planetmaker> So basically it will stay as minimal as sensibly possible 21:09:03 <planetmaker> Doesn't mean it's a bad idea, though. It could be coded as an add-on patch to the existing repo. Using hg queues. 21:09:46 <Phazorx> that would be nice 21:09:59 <planetmaker> but the usual *someone* would have to do it :P 21:10:17 <Phazorx> well it is not defined yet what is to be done 21:10:45 <Hirundo> andythenorth: If you could provide me with a couple of vehicles to test with,it would be very nice 21:10:53 <Beardie> Sorry to interrept any more info Planetmaker? 21:10:58 <planetmaker> Beardie: somehow my mercurial has a problem with your repo. I cannot get a checkout 21:11:03 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Bug #218: Concorde CallBack 36 Fatal Error @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/218 (by Beardie27) 21:11:04 <planetmaker> And it's too late today for me to update hg. 21:11:10 <Beardie> ok 21:11:12 <DJNekkid> Beardie: want to change the running cost depending on height as well? 21:11:19 <DJNekkid> for example, lower when standing still on the ground 21:11:24 <Beardie> DJ emm 21:11:26 <Beardie> DJJJJJJ 21:11:30 <Beardie> not got time for that now lol 21:11:39 <Beardie> your throwing to many things at me lol 21:11:45 <DJNekkid> not really 21:11:47 <DJNekkid> it's basicly the same thing 21:12:00 <Beardie> well we haeva error with the speed 21:12:12 <DJNekkid> im currently looking into it, makeing some code for you :) 21:12:20 <Beardie> ok line 1807 then? 21:12:34 <DJNekkid> sec 21:12:40 <Phazorx> are you talking about planes guys? 21:12:46 <DJNekkid> yes 21:12:49 <Beardie> yep 21:13:02 <Phazorx> long tinme ago i suggested a feature 21:13:13 <Phazorx> which i think is nice and quite implementable 21:13:20 <DJNekkid> shout! 21:13:38 <Phazorx> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/773 21:13:56 <DJNekkid> i wish! 21:14:02 <DJNekkid> i've had that as a wish as well 21:14:09 <planetmaker> it's about what's possible by current newgrfs... 21:14:29 <DJNekkid> but dalestan had an idea once, but i never did get to look at it 21:14:43 <DJNekkid> but anyway Beardie ... do you want to add running costs to the different heights as well? 21:14:58 <Beardie> well i don't know 21:15:03 <Phazorx> and diff fuel consumption :) 21:15:18 <Beardie> yeah maybe 21:15:21 <DJNekkid> oki 21:15:26 <Phazorx> i do want range tho 21:15:36 *** Beardie has quit IRC 21:15:42 <Phazorx> i tihnk it is worthy idea and will add variety t plane usage 21:16:00 <Phazorx> especially with paxdest 21:16:22 *** Beardie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 21:16:25 <Beardie> back 21:16:57 <Beardie> also guys what about this error http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=37362 21:16:58 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Autorenew and variable F2 (at www.tt-forums.net) 21:17:06 <Beardie> they suggest a small fix but i am not to sure 21:17:11 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #211 (Closed): JAS MD-81 @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/211#change-480 (by FaddyPainter) 21:19:19 <DJNekkid> http://redmine.ammler.ch/issues/188 21:20:01 <Beardie> thanks 21:20:06 <Beardie> one more thing before you go 21:20:11 <DJNekkid> scream! 21:20:14 <Beardie> speed 21:20:15 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:20:21 <Beardie> and cost how is that set? 21:20:25 <Beardie> mph/8 21:20:41 <DJNekkid> well 21:20:49 <DJNekkid> a speed of 01 is 8mph 21:20:55 <Beardie> yes 21:21:01 <DJNekkid> a speed of d10 is 80mph :) 21:21:09 <Beardie> d10? 21:21:12 <DJNekkid> decimal 21:21:19 <Frankr> right 21:21:26 *** Phazorx has left #openttdcoop.devzone 21:21:36 <DJNekkid> a speed of x50 is 640mph 21:21:38 <DJNekkid> or kmh 21:21:40 <DJNekkid> or whatever :) 21:21:59 <Beardie> can you type x50? 21:22:05 <Beardie> also DJ you see our error 21:22:09 <DJNekkid> you dont need x50 21:22:15 <Beardie> line 1807 in was.nfo.new.nfo 21:22:15 <DJNekkid> it is hex by default :) 21:22:19 <DJNekkid> i saw that 21:22:20 <Beardie> ok 21:22:26 <Beardie> why did it do it? 21:22:40 <DJNekkid> because you could in that case basicly just delete the first occurance 21:22:47 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 21:22:55 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #188: Add Landing and take off Speeds to existing aircraft @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/188#change-481 (by DJNekkid) 21:23:10 <DJNekkid> btw 21:23:20 <DJNekkid> want me to put that code in a file, and upload it? 21:23:27 <Frankr> yh plz 21:23:29 <DJNekkid> that seemed to break "space"'es 21:23:41 <Beardie> emm no we want to try it for learning purposes 21:23:47 <Beardie> ok 21:23:50 <Beardie> go on 21:23:51 <Beardie> lol 21:24:09 <Beardie> We only need one callback for both? 21:24:19 <Frankr> so we can refer to it, if we get completly stuck again 21:25:36 <Frankr> DJ how do u know all of this? lol 21:25:51 <DJNekkid> trial and error, and the 2cc set 21:25:55 <DJNekkid> :p 21:26:33 <Frankr> u seem to know basically everythin it's nice to know when we get baffled we know we got u 21:26:43 <Frankr> :) 21:27:32 *** Phazorx has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 21:28:29 <DJNekkid> there you go 21:28:55 <DJNekkid> pushed a txt-file 21:29:03 <DJNekkid> btw Frankr... 21:29:18 <DJNekkid> i started nfo codeing about newyear a year and a half ago 21:29:23 <DJNekkid> from scratch 21:29:44 <DJNekkid> did get the most basics 21:29:50 <DJNekkid> then i needed to "do more" 21:29:53 <DJNekkid> and i tested 21:29:54 <DJNekkid> and tested 21:29:55 <DJNekkid> and tested 21:29:57 <DJNekkid> and tested 21:30:19 <Frankr> right 21:30:25 <DJNekkid> and suddenly things worked without me understanding why it worked, but it worked, so i copy/pasted the working stuff to other trains 21:30:37 <DJNekkid> and at some point i started to understand what i actually did 21:30:42 <DJNekkid> and tbh, thats not very very long ago 21:30:53 <DJNekkid> this last easter or so :) 21:31:30 <Beardie> Well Dj we are thinking of putting some of this info into our wiki 21:31:53 <Beardie> the variables for different sprites at different positions 21:32:00 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 138: more howtos - callback36 @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/138 (by DJ Nekkid) 21:32:00 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 139: merge @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/139 (by DJ Nekkid) 21:32:01 <Beardie> so it can help people 21:32:08 <DJNekkid> planes are nothing compared to trains! 21:32:15 <Beardie> lol and merge? 21:32:39 <DJNekkid> it complained, so i merged something... dunno why... 21:33:00 <DJNekkid> i can (probably) a lot about nfo, but this mecurial i dont have the hang of yet 21:33:32 <Beardie> i was goign to add a wiki page on merging 21:33:37 <planetmaker> DJNekkid: you must have edited an old copy then :) 21:34:03 <planetmaker> Beardie: you have many files in the repo which don't really belong there IMO 21:34:03 <DJNekkid> wierd tbh 21:34:16 <Beardie> which files? 21:34:31 <DJNekkid> i hg pull -u'ed about 5 minutes before i edited ... well ... added the txt-file 21:35:04 <Beardie> ? 21:35:15 <Beardie> which files don;t belong? 21:35:39 <planetmaker> hm... I thought I saw some thumbs.DB or alike 21:35:44 <planetmaker> but I don't find it anymore 21:36:10 <Beardie> i added a .hgignore for that :D 21:36:21 <Beardie> i learned something :D 21:36:31 <Beardie> but i still think some are there 21:36:34 <planetmaker> well. that's fine. But it must not be in the repo either. That's two different things :) 21:36:36 *** Phazorx has quit IRC 21:36:55 <planetmaker> nvm, though. I seem to err here 21:37:09 <planetmaker> I don't find any obviously "wrong" files 21:37:19 <DJNekkid> Beardie and Frankr: have a look at this one: 21:37:20 <DJNekkid> http://redmine.ammler.ch/projects/dutchtrainset/repository/revisions/13/entry/sprites/nfo/10mus/irm.nfo 21:37:33 <planetmaker> the only thing strange is that everything is in a subdir, though. That doesn't make sense to me :) 21:37:34 <Beardie> its been fixed planetmaker DJNekkid is here :) 21:37:49 <planetmaker> hehe :) 21:38:21 <DJNekkid> or this one: 21:38:22 <DJNekkid> http://redmine.ammler.ch/projects/dutchtrainset/repository/entry/sprites/nfo/10mus/icm.nfo 21:38:42 <DJNekkid> planes are easy :P 21:39:05 <Frankr> right 21:39:07 <DJNekkid> and the ICM needs a complete revrite btw :p 21:39:11 <planetmaker> I hate the filenames with space, though 21:39:28 <planetmaker> and brackets 21:39:32 <planetmaker> even more :) 21:39:41 <Frankr> lol 21:39:46 <DJNekkid> dots or underscores at most! 21:39:52 <planetmaker> yep 21:40:05 <planetmaker> (2) Zeppelin NT 21:40:08 <Frankr> right well i'm glad we're doin planes 21:40:11 <planetmaker> ^^ that has everything, though 21:40:29 <DJNekkid> no dots or underscores! 21:40:43 <Beardie> what wrong with that? 21:40:54 <Beardie> i cahnge to files if you want 21:41:32 <planetmaker> it's terrible to type and bound to make problems in certain cases. 21:41:40 <Beardie> use tab 21:41:42 <Beardie> tab tab 21:41:42 <Beardie> tab 21:41:45 <Beardie> : 21:41:57 <planetmaker> yeah. I need to type \(3 <tab> 21:42:02 <Beardie> no 21:42:11 <Beardie> just press taba couple of times 21:42:14 <planetmaker> but! not every programme can handle it smoothly on all plattforms 21:42:15 <Beardie> its not hard 21:42:33 <Beardie> well i can edit out all the spaces in all files if you want? 21:42:34 <planetmaker> I've seen more than once programmes which choke on these kind of filenames. 21:42:44 <planetmaker> Your newgrf :) Your choice. 21:42:48 <Beardie> lol 21:42:53 <Beardie> well these files are just pngs 21:43:01 <Beardie> they are not used for the grf directly 21:43:06 <planetmaker> they're also dir names 21:43:08 <Beardie> the pcx files i make have no sapces in 21:43:15 <Beardie> i know 21:43:20 <Beardie> i need to sort that actually 21:43:23 <planetmaker> same applies there, of course 21:43:30 <DJNekkid> planetmaker: ready for a complete rewrite of the 2cc set this summer btw? 21:43:37 <Beardie> i am going to rearrange everyhting actually tomorrow :) 21:43:39 <DJNekkid> and realigning? 21:43:42 <planetmaker> uh... big project, DJNekkid :) 21:43:50 <Beardie> realigning? 21:43:55 <planetmaker> re-aligning 21:44:24 <DJNekkid> well 21:44:35 <planetmaker> DJNekkid: not sure how much time I have... 21:44:37 <DJNekkid> with a template for the mus can _most_ of them be a cut'n'paste 21:45:13 <planetmaker> hehe. 21:45:26 <planetmaker> I'm just trying to create a template makefile 21:45:47 <planetmaker> when that's sorted, it should be easier to add the same changes to all newgrfs, if desired 21:46:02 <planetmaker> and then we could also go with the templates maybe 21:46:41 <DJNekkid> and with the framework for the preprocessor we are more or less good to go 21:47:09 <planetmaker> yup. But the latter will need to be established 21:47:22 <DJNekkid> thats not my job tbh :p 21:47:27 <DJNekkid> but, nn :) 21:47:27 <Beardie> Sorry Dj did you fix line 1807? or will your new code do that? 21:47:28 <planetmaker> :P 21:49:51 <Ammler> planetmaker: i thought about using awk to prefare the *#defines" 21:50:06 <planetmaker> Ammler: something I thought of, too :) 21:50:34 <planetmaker> though sed, awk of gcc doesn't really matter, if it works. 21:50:36 <Ammler> <id_something>: "string soemthing" -> awk -> #define ID_SOMET.. "STRING" 21:50:49 <planetmaker> I guess, actually, sed might be more up to the task than awk, though 21:51:00 <planetmaker> ah... you mean pre-processing that. 21:51:13 <Ammler> pre preprocessing :-) 21:51:17 <planetmaker> :) 21:51:26 <planetmaker> especially for languages that might make sense 21:52:46 <Ammler> DJNekkid: echo "Hallo Welt" | awk '{ print }' <-- can you run that on your ssystem? 21:55:44 <Ammler> btw, did you guys realize the nice wiki page from FooBar_ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/Writing_Commit_Messages 21:56:41 <FooBar_> [23:55] nice wiki page <-- thanks! :) 21:56:48 <planetmaker> not yet. 21:56:51 * planetmaker goes looking 21:57:07 <planetmaker> awesome! :) 21:59:49 <planetmaker> anyway. good night for today :) 21:59:57 <Osai> night pm 21:59:58 <Osai> :) 22:00:16 <planetmaker> oh osai :) hi and bye :) 22:01:34 <FooBar_> thanks pm. And goodnight! 22:03:40 *** Beardie has quit IRC 22:04:50 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:07:39 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:09:56 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:11:23 *** Beardie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:11:35 <Beardie> Back Sorry DJNekkid You There? 22:11:45 <Beardie> O wait doesn't matter actually 22:11:54 <Beardie> ignore that :) 22:24:03 *** Beardie has quit IRC 22:25:53 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 140: Basic Speed and Costs for Concorde @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/140 (by Frank) 22:51:35 *** Webster has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:53:21 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #220: Rearrange All files and folders in repo for better structure @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/220 (by Beardie27) 22:56:18 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 141: Added MD81 Japan Air Systems.png @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/141 (by Beardie27) 23:18:48 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 142: Further improvements on Concorde nfo (Speeds) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/142 (by Frank) 23:21:25 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Bug #218 (Closed): Concorde CallBack 36 Fatal Error @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/218#change-483 (by Frank) 23:34:45 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #220 (Assigned): Rearrange All files and folders in repo for better... @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/220#change-484 (by Beardie27) 23:34:46 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #175 (Assigned): Redo Aer Lingus 737-200 @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/175#change-485 (by Beardie27) 23:36:54 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Bug #221: Update Concorde's Fixed Co-ordinates @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/221 (by Frank) 23:43:18 *** FooBar_ has quit IRC 23:47:03 *** Frankr has quit IRC 23:49:55 <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 143: Set variable running costs to default on Concorde nfo @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/143 (by Frank)