Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 18th June 2009:
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00:19:31  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 205: Change: simplify handling of pnfo files in the build system even mo... @ (by planetmaker)
01:33:25  <Brot6> Backup done! (Usage: 56M)
01:33:25  <Brot6> Don't hit me!! I'm in the Twilight Zone!!!
02:04:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
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06:32:17  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 206: Doc: document the desired directory structure within Makefile.config @ (by planetmaker)
06:32:17  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 207: Change: add a few more file types to .hgignore @ (by planetmaker)
06:35:27  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 52: Add: template nfo for raw material industry (work in... @ (by andythenorth)
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06:38:31  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 208: Change: make sure that the bundle only contains files which shall b... @ (by planetmaker)
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06:39:29  <planetmaker> morning andythenorth :)
06:39:36  <andythenorth> morning
06:40:59  <planetmaker> Just something I noticed / like to point out: it might be a good idea to name all original nfo files to something like pnfo
06:41:34  <planetmaker> I then indicates that they're still subject to processing of the makefile. Even though in most cases that may just be copy it into a common file
06:42:06  <planetmaker> e.g. rename the template to template...pnfo
06:43:45  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 53: Change: added some missing comments to nfo @ (by andythenorth)
06:43:56  <andythenorth> planetmaker: doing it now
06:44:06  <planetmaker> thanks :)
06:44:53  <planetmaker> I just played around with the 2cctrainset's makefile. And those changes look good and cleaner and I plan to transfer them here now :)
06:45:04  <planetmaker> Kinda heading to the universal makefile :)
06:45:16  <planetmaker> Of course I mis-use all these grfs for testing :P
06:46:01  <andythenorth> there was some discussion while you were away...
06:46:14  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 54: Change: renamed template_raw_material_industry.nfo t... @ (by andythenorth)
06:46:23  <planetmaker> oh? what did I miss?
06:46:32  <planetmaker> there's no log, I guess :S
06:47:01  <planetmaker> or is there somewhere where I can read up on it?
06:47:18  <andythenorth> there wasn't much
06:47:24  <andythenorth> I was trying to figure out if we can use templating even more
06:47:41  <andythenorth> (just a minute)
06:48:03  <planetmaker> you mean like for the grf's name?
06:48:23  <andythenorth> I was looking at the defines for the dutch set
06:49:25  <andythenorth> FIRS will have around 60 industries...
06:49:46  <andythenorth> ...but the codebase for most will fall into one of a few common types
06:49:55  <andythenorth> i.e. raw material, secondary etc
06:50:09  <andythenorth> and I dislike lots of copy and paste to add code features, bug fixes
06:50:19  <planetmaker> understandable :)
06:50:30  <andythenorth> it looks like defines could be elegant, smart and labour saving
06:50:37  <andythenorth> if we go to the effort of setting them up
06:51:05  <planetmaker> sounds good to me in principle. I haven't looked much at the Dutch set, though, so far.
06:51:27  <andythenorth> it's the stations set that uses the defines
06:52:13  <andythenorth> for example:
06:53:40  <planetmaker> yes, that's the way to go, IMO, too
06:54:20  <planetmaker> defining theses names, makes it way less likely to mix up than mixing up numbers
06:55:04  <andythenorth> I think it will take some thought to make it work though
06:55:20  <andythenorth> I want to use it to define production value, accepted / produced cargo etc
06:55:24  <planetmaker> it will
06:55:52  <andythenorth> we will end up with some very long strings if that's the only way to provide variable names
06:55:59  <andythenorth> there's only one name space right?
06:56:07  <planetmaker> I have some drafts on this issue, but nothing really finished.
06:56:23  <planetmaker> but basically one could end up with a kind of pseudo-nfo
06:57:25  <andythenorth> ...which has been tried before...only wrong (IMO)
06:57:27  <planetmaker> where many numbers are replaced by far easier to understand strings like in the link you just gave
06:58:05  <andythenorth> I recall at least three attempts to provide a parser for a pseudo nfo
06:58:12  <andythenorth> they always fail on varaction 2
06:58:22  <planetmaker> yes. That's the hard part.
06:58:25  <andythenorth> the makefile defines solution is much better
06:58:33  <andythenorth> I'll write the varaction 2 in nfo
06:58:37  <andythenorth> as it should be done :)
06:58:38  <planetmaker> Not sure that we should attempt a complete parser, though
06:58:50  <planetmaker> he, yes :)
07:01:13  <planetmaker> in any case I prefere a step-by-step implementation
07:01:31  <planetmaker> e.g. starting with using global IDs for the single industries as a starter
07:01:40  <planetmaker> and then one could go further, if desired
07:02:41  <planetmaker> depends on how broad you want to define the word "template" :)
07:03:58  <planetmaker> simple defines which replace a string by the appropriate number are actually quite easy
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07:21:47  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 55: Fix #159, only depend on really needed files, rework... @ (by planetmaker)
07:21:47  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #159 (Closed): sprites/nfo/.pnfo is required @ (by planetmaker)
07:22:04  <DJNekkid> good morning planetmaker :)
07:22:13  <planetmaker> moin DJNekkid :)
07:23:15  <planetmaker> I made some changes to 2cctrainset... having the build system obey a bit more stringent system
07:23:25  <DJNekkid> i saw that
07:23:28  <planetmaker> :)
07:23:32  <DJNekkid> well, i saw the commits
07:23:32  <DJNekkid> :)
07:23:47  <planetmaker> all nfo files are renamed to pnfo :)
07:23:54  <DJNekkid> i have no idea on how thoose scripts work :)
07:24:16  <planetmaker> he :)
07:24:34  <planetmaker> quite easy actually. It's just a batch file with slightly different syntax so to speak
07:24:50  <DJNekkid> no doubt :)
07:24:51  <planetmaker> look for "grf: " and see what it does there
07:25:14  <DJNekkid> nah, currently waiting for the ferry (it leaves in 5 minutes), plus a 35 minute ride
07:25:21  <andythenorth>   planetmaker: so does the makefile use make macros?
07:25:34  <DJNekkid> so i were thinking i should make the MU-template for the 2cc set
07:25:48  <planetmaker> andythenorth: not really. Though: what is a "macro"?
07:26:42  <planetmaker> it employs the usual operations available within a shell and combines them into a usable sequence
07:27:17  <planetmaker> btw, the makefile now does overwrite the previous nightly
07:27:26  <DJNekkid> btw planetmaker ... that mac of yours, does it have some kind of "mac linux" installed, or are OSX a linux-like OS ?
07:27:30  <planetmaker> I understood that you and Ammler liked that
07:27:46  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: it's quite similar, if you work with the command line
07:28:04  <planetmaker> in the heart a Mac is a linux-like OS
07:28:19  <planetmaker> on the surface, though, rather windows like :)
07:28:35  <planetmaker> with its distinct differences
07:29:20  <DJNekkid> well, i've driven mac a few times, and the GUI is windows ish
07:29:20  <DJNekkid> i were more thinking of the "core" now :p
07:29:59  <planetmaker> yes. The core is *nix like
07:30:06  <DJNekkid> oki :)
07:31:09  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 56: Fix (r52): the name is FIRS... @ (by planetmaker)
07:33:30  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: are u SURE we cant just skip the MU express wagon?
07:33:33  <DJNekkid> it just causes problems!
07:34:05  <DJNekkid> for example:
07:34:10  <DJNekkid> build a TGV atlantique or thalys ...
07:34:32  <DJNekkid> add a few coaches.
07:34:32  <DJNekkid> clone it
07:34:32  <DJNekkid> and put them after eachother
07:35:00  <DJNekkid> now the gfx dont get where its supposed
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07:35:30  <DJNekkid> same on BM73
07:36:13  <planetmaker> eh? Why should we skip them?
07:36:43  <DJNekkid> [09:34:56] <DJNekkid> now the gfx dont get where its supposed
07:37:09  <DJNekkid> unless we make it fixed consists (i.e. articulated vehicles) its not possible to get them at proper places
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07:38:56  <DJNekkid> the TGV's loose their "powered wagons"
07:39:02  <DJNekkid> in the middle
07:39:11  <DJNekkid> the BM73 loose its panto on the 2nd concist
07:39:32  <DJNekkid> ET420 the same
07:40:29  <DJNekkid> thats why :)
07:41:39  <DJNekkid> Refits can be done either way, to mail and valuables
07:44:31  <planetmaker> you have me confused. You make it sound like I did or want to remove some wagons, the MU express wagon.
07:44:46  <DJNekkid> you did not
07:44:49  <DJNekkid> i want to remove the MU Express
07:45:14  <DJNekkid> and the normal PAX wagon torun to simply "MU wagon", but is also refittable to valuables and mail
07:45:33  <DJNekkid> torun=turn
07:46:16  <planetmaker> well... you know. I'm not a fan of that idea as a small purchase list is no gain as opposed to a refit-hassle.
07:46:25  <planetmaker> especially for mixed consists.
07:46:47  <DJNekkid> and when the gfx turns out wierd?
07:46:52  <planetmaker> eh?
07:46:59  <DJNekkid> as i saied
07:47:00  <planetmaker> what's wrong with as is?
07:47:00  <DJNekkid> build a TGV-A
07:47:09  <DJNekkid> add 5 MU wagons
07:47:16  <DJNekkid> (dont matter what kind)
07:47:16  <DJNekkid> clone it
07:47:30  <DJNekkid> put the two consists together, so it's one train
07:47:57  <DJNekkid> do the same with BM73
07:47:58  <DJNekkid> or ET420
07:51:39  <planetmaker> ok, I'll test it. Tonight hopefully. At work it's bad :P
07:52:03  <DJNekkid> i'll post a screenie...
07:56:57  <DJNekkid>
07:57:26  <DJNekkid> to put it this way, unless the train have symetric wagons, it will glitch
07:57:33  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - glitzhes.PNG @ (by DJNekkid)
07:57:42  <Ammler> who is highlighting me?
07:57:48  <Ammler> good morning guys :-)
07:58:06  <DJNekkid> damn, ill change my bookmark!
08:03:24  <planetmaker> hello Ammler :)
08:04:04  <planetmaker> ok, I see that. Livery failure :)
08:04:32  <DJNekkid> well
08:04:48  <DJNekkid> no not really planetmaker...
08:04:56  <DJNekkid> its becuase it's _only_
08:05:05  <DJNekkid> hmm
08:05:07  <DJNekkid> no
08:05:20  <DJNekkid> its because one can only check for two things
08:05:23  <DJNekkid> in this case atleast
08:05:35  <planetmaker> last and first wagon
08:05:41  <DJNekkid> yes
08:05:57  <planetmaker> but not something with two double headed engines (or more)
08:06:34  <DJNekkid> if i could use type 41, and not 40, i could check "number in a chain of vehicles of same vehicle ID"
08:06:47  <DJNekkid> and thus, if last in such a chain, use the proper wagon
08:07:37  <DJNekkid> or first, or whatever is needed :)
08:07:44  <planetmaker> and that means?
08:08:05  <planetmaker> can't you use prop41 on trains?
08:08:19  <DJNekkid> that, in theese cases would the panto or whatever be there in the 2nd consist as well
08:08:19  <DJNekkid> i.e.
08:09:13  <DJNekkid> the BM73's panto in the 2nd "part" of the train would be there
08:09:30  <DJNekkid> and on the TGV's would the "gray roofs" be there
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08:50:12  <DJ_Nekkid> what do u call a lesbian dinosaur?
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10:04:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
10:04:08  <Brot6> firs: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
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10:54:52  <FooBar_> Whoever finds my new grf in the Online Content gets to download it first! :P
10:56:24  <FooBar_> Too bad...already downloaded 3 times
10:56:45  * FooBar_ wonders how people find a completely unannounced grf
10:56:57  <Ammler> hehe
10:57:02  <Ammler> a lot just downlaod all
10:58:01  <FooBar_> that's quite a feat, as you have to check all boxes manually...
10:58:28  <FooBar_> 5 times... :S
10:59:08  <Ammler> 6
10:59:32  <FooBar_> I see
10:59:42  <Ammler> why do you mean unannouced?
11:00:17  <FooBar_> Well, apart from here I nowhere stated that I created and/or uploaded it to the content service
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11:00:32  <planetmaker> He... the tbrs could need a big over-haul, too
11:00:48  <Ammler> hmm, just liked to say that
11:00:58  <planetmaker> but having "only" those limited bridge numbers is a bit sad.
11:01:22  <planetmaker> But especially sad is that road / rail is not separated from the brigde sprites themselves
11:01:26  <FooBar_> If that can be done in one pseudosprite like the grf I just did... :P
11:01:28  <planetmaker> *bridge
11:01:48  <FooBar_> Changes are underway with newroutes
11:02:04  <planetmaker> I know. But they're "underway" for 12(?) months or alike
11:02:23  <FooBar_> Might take a while still, but I'm confident that petern will actually finish it some day...
11:03:56  <planetmaker> Well, yes. :)
11:04:03  <planetmaker> Some things just take longer
11:04:22  <FooBar_> In TTD world, everything takes longer :P
11:04:43  <planetmaker> like the command line password patch. It was FS entry #571
11:04:46  <planetmaker> from 2007 or so
11:05:19  <planetmaker> or the Ctrl+click signs = delete sign. Took also over a year.
11:05:45  <planetmaker> and OpenGFX :P
11:06:04  <FooBar_> what now? Never heared of that last one... :P
11:06:15  <planetmaker> :)
11:07:46  <FooBar_> Anyways, I'm quite pleased with my new grf.
11:08:17  <Ammler> FooBar_: that is candiate for MiniGRFs
11:08:30  <FooBar_> It was already a feature of the transrapid track set, but now it's available seperately as well.
11:09:04  <FooBar_> Ammler: Yes and no. Yes as in it's a small grf. No as in I'm not going to bugger to share the source of one single line of code
11:09:26  <Ammler> hmm, does it have graphics?
11:09:29  <FooBar_> nope
11:09:59  <FooBar_> This is the actual code:     2 * 7	 00 06 01 01 09 0A 03
11:10:10  <FooBar_> The rest is either comments or action8
11:11:10  <Ammler> that is why you didn't make it GPL :P
11:11:19  <FooBar_> exactly
11:11:37  <FooBar_> CC-0 was closest to public domain without having to write a custom license document
11:11:46  <FooBar_> which I considered too much effort :P
11:12:08  <Ammler> is public domain not choseable?
11:12:26  <FooBar_> no
11:12:28  <Ammler> another lack then, well, not the only one :-)
11:13:14  <FooBar_> I don't consider that a lack. "public domain" isn't a legal license here in the Netherlands
11:13:28  <FooBar_> More countries have that "problem"
11:14:22  <FooBar_> So if I were to put something in the "public domain" it would be the same as providing no license at all: copyright would still persist.
11:15:27  <FooBar_> In lots of countries copyright is an undeniable right.
11:16:53  <FooBar_> 9 downloads. Only 405 more and I'm off the bottom of the list :P
11:17:56  <Hirundo> It is strange how many people want omg#!#1337 features added to IS :S
11:19:15  <FooBar_> Well ofcourse. omg#!#1337 features are tha bom!
11:21:07  <Hirundo> I think I can derive a mathematical formula: suggestion_chance = code_size * 1337
11:21:52  <FooBar_> lol :P
11:24:13  <Ammler> Hirundo: still subsidaries?
11:24:37  <Hirundo> yeah
11:24:54  <Ammler> what is wrong with starting openttd as MP?
11:25:56  <FooBar_> well, subsidiaries is nice, but it's not IS. People don't seem to understand that it's best to finish one feature first (and get it in trunk!) and /then/ concentrate on combining it with something else...
11:27:32  <Hirundo> this is a nice one:
11:27:34  <Webster> Title: Bug #1 in Ubuntu: “Microsoft has a majority market share” (at
11:28:22  <Ammler> FooBar_: do you know, if the sources of the "tt-forums GPL grfs" available, or need that request?
11:28:45  <Ammler> I guess, I start a bulk request ;-)
11:28:55  <FooBar_> what do you mean by "tt-forums GPL grfs"?
11:29:10  <Ammler> usset, jpsets, isr
11:29:25  <FooBar_> oh ok, random grfs licensed gpl
11:29:30  <FooBar_> I think those need request
11:29:48  <Ammler> grfs which claim to be GPL but no souces findable
11:30:21  <planetmaker> he. Good idea Ammler. We could host it :P
11:30:33  <planetmaker> as backup. Or bitbucket.
11:30:52  <Ammler> well, they have all userspace at tt-forums
11:31:06  <Ammler> don't think, it is a issue of quoata
11:31:16  <planetmaker> true
11:31:23  <planetmaker> a zip file would suffice there actually
11:31:26  <Ammler> -a
11:32:01  <FooBar_> even a big thing as openGFX is less than 50 MB in size
11:32:08  <FooBar_> And that's including the hg overhead
11:32:52  <planetmaker> yup. And ALL things ever added, deleted or whatever
11:33:20  <Ammler> > du -sh opengfx/
11:33:22  <Ammler> 11M     opengfx/
11:33:53  <Ammler> FooBar_: run "hg up null" :-)
11:34:36  <FooBar_> 0 files updated, 0 files merged, 123 files removed, 0 files unresolved
11:34:43  <FooBar_> I wonder what got removed...
11:35:07  <planetmaker> FooBar_, everything :)
11:35:08  <FooBar_> ah, the repo it removed...
11:35:12  <FooBar_> well, thanks...
11:35:25  <planetmaker> you still have .hg :)
11:35:30  <planetmaker> make hg up tip and you have it again
11:35:36  <FooBar_> If you want me to resign, you can just ask :P
11:35:36  <planetmaker> -make
11:35:45  <planetmaker> uh?
11:36:09  <FooBar_> 123 files updated, 0 files merged, 0 files removed, 0 files unresolved
11:36:12  <FooBar_> :)
11:36:17  <planetmaker> :)
11:36:45  <FooBar_> my green tortoisehg ticks are still missing though :S
11:37:14  <FooBar_> dunno where those went. They disappeared a while ago, but never came back...
11:37:46  <FooBar_> More precisely, they disappeared when I deinstalled bzr...
11:38:01  <FooBar_> I probably just should reinstall hg...
11:39:05  <planetmaker> I've no idea about what those ticks even might be...
11:39:08  <Ammler> don't have those either on my linux box
11:39:19  <Ammler> planetmaker: they show status of the files
11:39:27  <FooBar_> exactly
11:39:32  <planetmaker> I assumed so :)
11:39:33  <Ammler> nice feature
11:39:34  <FooBar_> they are actually quite nice to have
11:39:36  <FooBar_> :)
11:39:56  <planetmaker> like what hg st tells me, I assume
11:40:04  <Ammler> hg st -v
11:40:38  <FooBar_> yes, but then without asking
11:41:12  <Ammler> even hg st -v is less verbose ;-)
12:01:00  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 12399: (svn r16590) -Fix [FS#2967]: don't crash when tars/newgr... @ (by Rubidium)
12:01:00  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 12400: (svn r16591) -Codechange: some coding style in strgen @ (by Rubidium)
12:01:00  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 12401: [IS] Merge: trunk up to r16591 @ (by Hirundo)
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12:24:00  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 209: added a MUS template @ (by DJNekkid)
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12:28:58  <planetmaker> HGREPOS="2cctrainset firs heqs opengfx worldairlineset ../trunk dutchtrainset"
12:28:58  <planetmaker> SVNREPOS="nforenum grfcodec tbrs dutchstations"
12:28:58  <planetmaker>  ^^ my to-pull-list gets longer and longer...
12:29:39  <FooBar_> you want too much :)
12:29:48  <Ammler> do you pull per cron?
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12:31:03  <Ammler> planetmaker: else you could use my backup script which visits every subdir and execute action there
12:31:03  <planetmaker> no, I don't. But makes it easier, if I update makefiles in a few grfs ;)
12:31:14  <Ammler> -else
12:31:29  <planetmaker> I have a small shell script called which visits all those.
12:31:41  <planetmaker> Just added is2, too :)
12:32:03  <Ammler> so you have to wait until every repo is up2date, that would suck me :-)
12:32:13  <planetmaker> hu?
12:32:33  <Ammler> or what is this list for?
12:32:45  <planetmaker> doesn't take long usually. And I only run it when I start to work on something
12:32:55  <planetmaker> yes, it's vars in my shell script
12:33:27  <planetmaker> running an automatic update here... actually a nice idea for cronjob :)
12:33:30  <planetmaker> thanks :)
12:33:50  <Ammler> well, manually run it would make me impatience
12:35:31  <planetmaker> well... not too much to update right now, but it took 17 seconds.
12:35:57  <planetmaker> I added a cronjob at 7am, though :)
12:37:22  <DJNekkid> hi guys, did u see my Mu template?
12:39:08  <planetmaker> hm... I could even add to build everything...
12:39:26  <planetmaker> DJNekkid, not really yet. Is it in the repo?
12:39:47  <FooBar_> I've seen a message passing by
12:40:01  <FooBar_> didn't bugger to click it, as I as playing OpenTTD :P
12:40:22  <DJNekkid> i added it a few minutes ago
12:40:51  <planetmaker> btw, Ammler the makefiles of firs and 2cctrainset don't create a doc subdir anymore in the bundled files and the rXX is stripped from the bundled files, too. The rXX only shows in the newgrf seleciton window from ingame now.
12:41:59  <FooBar_> DJNekkid: quite nice indeed. Just fill in the details and you're done :)
12:42:13  <DJNekkid> hehe... aye
12:43:14  <planetmaker> nice, yes
12:43:59  <planetmaker> very well documented.
12:44:31  <DJNekkid> even you can .nfo now planetmaker :)
12:44:37  <planetmaker> :D
12:44:43  <DJNekkid> even nekomaster :p
12:45:21  <planetmaker>  !! :O
12:46:22  * Hirundo objects
12:46:36  <FooBar_> objection denied
12:46:45  <FooBar_> :D
12:47:02  <Hirundo> 11. Thou shalt not object.
12:48:00  <FooBar_> ok, you win ;)
12:48:44  <planetmaker> uff. I'm relieved
12:49:33  <FooBar_> or to be more precise: the 11 commandments win
12:58:35  <DJNekkid> hmm
12:58:41  <DJNekkid> perhaps i'd even make a test-pcx...
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13:03:07  <Ammler> maybe we should make a newgrf framework :P
13:03:20  <Ammler> with the Makefile and templates
13:03:26  <DJNekkid> well ...
13:03:29  <DJNekkid> that _is_ hard
13:03:35  <DJNekkid> but one can make one per project...
13:03:42  <DJNekkid> i _kinda_ have one for the dutchset as well
13:03:47  <FooBar_> and would be like reinventing the wheel...
13:04:07  <Ammler> which wheel?
13:04:10  <FooBar_> grfmaker
13:04:21  <planetmaker> Ammler, there's a repo...
13:04:28  <DJNekkid> point is, all trainsets will have focus on different stuff
13:04:33  <planetmaker> maybe I should rename / delete it and give it a more universal name
13:04:35  <FooBar_> I believe that's some kind of framework. Have never used it though
13:05:02  <planetmaker> there's the empty project newgrf_makefile
13:05:08  <planetmaker> we could call it newgrf_template
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13:53:46  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Heavy Equipment Set - Revision 84: Change: rework makefile system in order to use the standard ma... @ (by planetmaker)
13:55:55  <Ammler> planetmaker: nice, is there a makefile target for a tar with revision?
13:56:02  <Ammler> tar/path*
13:56:05  <planetmaker> no, there isn't.
13:56:11  <Ammler> ok
13:56:16  <planetmaker> make tar will create e.g. 2cctrainset-nightly.tar
13:56:30  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Bug #240: Make the pcx files a dependency for the build system @ (by planetmaker)
13:56:30  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #241: Make the PCX files a dependency of the build system @ (by planetmaker)
13:56:30  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Heavy Equipment Set - Bug #242: Make the pcx files a dependency for the build system @ (by planetmaker)
13:56:35  <planetmaker> or - for releases - unchanged 2cctrainset-1.0.3.tar
13:56:41  <Ammler> and make ?
13:56:56  <planetmaker> make without anything will just create the grf file.
13:57:00  <planetmaker> as before
13:57:12  <Ammler> no dir?
13:57:26  <planetmaker> no
13:57:32  <planetmaker> it never did. Should it?
13:57:40  <Ammler> oh?
13:57:48  <Ammler> hmm, how does the tar look?
13:57:53  <Ammler> isn't it in a dir?
13:58:13  <planetmaker> yes, that is.
13:58:34  <planetmaker> 2cctrainset-nightly.tar/2cctrainset-nightly/2cctrainset.grf
13:58:43  <planetmaker> and the doc files with the same path
13:59:00  <Ammler> hmm
13:59:00  <planetmaker> so - I hope - basically what you wanted for testing purposes :)
13:59:12  <Ammler> why "nightly" in the path?
13:59:15  <planetmaker> as make install will now always overwrite.
13:59:28  <Ammler> will that overwrite a release?
13:59:31  <planetmaker> to make it clear that it's a dev thing.
13:59:42  <planetmaker> no, releases have their own naming scheme unchanged.
13:59:54  <Ammler> hmm
13:59:58  <planetmaker> I just removed the version from all nightlies (except in the display ingame)
14:00:30  <Ammler> then you will still have multiple versions in your data directory
14:00:51  <Ammler> I mean, 1.0.1 should overwrite 1.0
14:02:01  <Ammler> but that is the second part :-)
14:02:05  <planetmaker> no, that shouldn't happen with releases.
14:02:21  <Ammler> why not?
14:02:45  <Ammler> why should someone keep the buggy compatible version 1.0?
14:04:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
14:04:08  <Brot6> heqs: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
14:04:13  <Brot6> is2: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
14:04:15  <Ammler> and if a advandced user really like to keep buggy history, he could always rename the directories, like I did with grfpack
14:05:22  <Ammler> but you shouldn't need to make manual effort to keep you data dir clean
14:06:26  <planetmaker> Ammler, it's one thing to make it easy for us to test new versions. That's what I enabled now.
14:06:55  <planetmaker> But! A person who gets the grf from bananas will not delete the grfs anyway. So there's no point
14:07:11  <Ammler> no, don't speak about banans
14:07:19  <planetmaker> That's how it is distributed
14:07:27  <Ammler> that is out of our control anyway
14:07:28  <planetmaker> all other means of distribution don't matter
14:07:37  <planetmaker> not really.
14:07:45  <Ammler> it does
14:08:11  <Ammler> it was the most annoying part of grfs, I can remember
14:08:26  <planetmaker> and for checking back on bug reports it is very sensible for us developers to keep the old versions
14:08:44  <Ammler> if they renamed the files according to revision, also if it was compatbile and didn't change the id
14:08:57  <Ammler> you do
14:09:00  <Ammler> with bananas
14:09:03  <planetmaker> I'm not going to cripple the make system only in order to go and rename every release grf.
14:09:19  <Ammler> well
14:09:49  <planetmaker> that - IMO - doesn't make really sense, does it?
14:10:24  <Ammler> planetmaker: we are at same stage as yesterday,
14:10:29  <planetmaker> I don't want to force warnings about grfs not found onto the general public.
14:10:36  <planetmaker> No. You argued about us developers.
14:10:41  <planetmaker> I implemented that.
14:10:44  <Ammler> why should you differ between release and nightly?
14:10:54  <planetmaker> development vs. release?
14:11:03  <planetmaker> testing vs. production?
14:11:04  <Ammler> n
14:11:08  <Ammler> oh nvm
14:11:33  <planetmaker> I see the point that we like to see by a simple "apply newgrfs" the effect of a newer version of the grf.
14:11:37  <Ammler> I need a cleaning script for bananas anyway.
14:11:58  <Ammler> still not possible now
14:12:00  <Ammler> sorry
14:12:04  <planetmaker> I honestly like to keep the old releases :)
14:12:16  <Ammler> not if you bugfix a relase, i.e :P
14:12:16  <planetmaker> what is still not possible now?
14:12:21  <planetmaker> ?
14:12:23  * FooBar_ just buys a new hard drive if it's full rather than cleaning it up
14:12:35  <planetmaker> FooBar_, that's how I do it, too :P
14:12:49  <Ammler> FooBar_: nothing to do with disk usage :P
14:12:51  <planetmaker> it's just not worth the time to clean up hard drives
14:13:23  <planetmaker> Ammler, but I'm really a bit disappointed about it now.
14:13:29  <Ammler> do you really think, I would make such a script, because I am worry about those bytes?
14:13:33  <planetmaker> We talked in length about what the makefile system should do.
14:13:43  <FooBar_> Ammler: then the problem sits in the newgrf selection window: it only should show the newest of files with the same grfid
14:13:57  <Ammler> we have currently quite a big hassle, because openttd just loads randomly grf versions
14:13:58  <planetmaker> And now you come and say that it's not what you want. You really should then work on your error descriptions.
14:14:38  <planetmaker> it's a bit frustrating to go, check out "hey, yeah, here you go" only to find out "oh, no, I wanted it all different and also for blah".
14:14:50  <Ammler> planetmaker: show me please on the ticket, where it sais, "DON'T CHANGE RELEASE"
14:15:20  <Ammler> but it is fine,
14:15:25  <Ammler> anaway :P
14:15:31  <planetmaker> Ammler, the point is you have to specify everything you want changed. How can I elsewhere know what you all mean or intend?
14:15:34  <Ammler> I just commented it.
14:15:46  <Ammler> you solved one part of the issue, we had
14:15:50  <planetmaker> no, honestly, that saddens me and de-motivates.
14:15:57  <planetmaker> quite a lot
14:16:47  <planetmaker> you really should say what you want.
14:17:01  <planetmaker> and not assume that I think alike
14:17:07  <Ammler> well, the problem I had and thought really well described yesterday was
14:17:16  <Ammler> that we have more then one grf in the data dir
14:17:33  <planetmaker> yes. I saw that. And we only talked about nightlies.
14:17:44  <planetmaker> And I conceded that for testing purposes that's ok.
14:17:46  <Ammler> if you now differ between release and nightly, that won't change, that is all I said
14:17:50  <planetmaker> You NEVER talked about releases.
14:18:10  <planetmaker> I always differed between release and nightly. They had and have a different name.
14:18:13  <Ammler> do you store releases in an other directory?
14:18:49  <planetmaker> I use make install. So releases get their usual naming convention
14:19:14  <planetmaker> firs-0.1.tar/firs-0.1/firs.grf
14:19:21  <Ammler> as nightly will get
14:19:23  <planetmaker> but see above
14:19:34  <planetmaker> firs-nightly.tar/firs-nightly/firs.grf
14:19:38  <Ammler> so you will have around 4 different versions now in your data dir
14:19:44  <planetmaker> why?
14:19:58  <planetmaker> I'll have all stable releases and one nightly. Yes
14:20:08  <Ammler> e.g. 2cc: 1.0, 1.0.1, nightly
14:20:15  <planetmaker> exactly
14:20:22  <planetmaker> by design actually
14:20:25  <Ammler> yes
14:20:32  <Ammler> well, if you like that, it is fine
14:21:01  <Ammler> it wasn't just what I wanted, but believe me, it should at least fix andys issue.
14:21:25  <planetmaker> so you want to keep only the latest stable, compatible release, rightß
14:21:28  <planetmaker> ß=?
14:21:38  <Ammler> no
14:21:45  <Ammler> i would like to have only ONE
14:21:52  <planetmaker> ?
14:21:57  <Ammler> no matter, stable or dev
14:21:58  <planetmaker> even if it's incompatible
14:22:21  <Ammler> if I run make install on a dev version, it should overwrite the stable
14:22:24  <planetmaker> what? ONE? nightly overwriting stable?
14:22:25  <planetmaker> :O
14:22:41  <Ammler> if it is incompatible, you will change the ID and name
14:22:46  <planetmaker> yes
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14:23:00  <Ammler> like nars -> nars2
14:23:16  <Ammler> 2cc -> 2cc2 :-)
14:23:33  <planetmaker> :P
14:23:36  <DJ_Nekkid> 3cc? :p
14:23:36  <Ammler> hmm
14:24:01  <Ammler> planetmaker: I see what you mean
14:24:18  <Ammler> then the solution is to have only the major version in the path
14:24:40  <planetmaker> like 1? or 1.0?
14:24:45  * FooBar_ agrees
14:24:46  <Ammler> anyway 1.0.1 should replace 1.0
14:24:59  <Ammler> and 1.1 should replace those too
14:25:05  <planetmaker> hm...
14:25:08  <FooBar_> so just '1'
14:25:09  <Ammler> as it will still be compatible
14:25:18  <planetmaker> FooBar_, you agree to what exactly? :)
14:25:26  <Ammler> but 2.0 will kepp seperately
14:25:38  <FooBar_> to ammler's solution to only have the major version in the path
14:25:46  <planetmaker> yeah, but different grfIDs won't be seen compatible anyway, I guess. But it needs to be different.
14:26:01  <planetmaker> Well. Feasable is everything :)
14:26:26  <planetmaker> But are you sure that a nightly should overwrite the releases?
14:26:45  <FooBar_> I like to keep: a nightly version and the latest version of every incompatible release.
14:27:08  <FooBar_> the latter for backward compatibility with savegames
14:27:15  <Ammler> and banans has every release version, too.
14:27:23  <planetmaker> well. incompatible is something which we need not discuss. That's a different newgrf anyway
14:27:41  <Ammler> but we shold reflect that with version number, imo
14:27:50  <FooBar_> sure it's a different newgrf, but in my book with the very same name
14:28:21  <planetmaker> yes. But major version. Let's skip that, that's clear IMO, that you want to not mix incompatible stuff :)
14:28:34  <Ammler> do you plan to make 2cc 1.1 already incompatible with 1.0?
14:28:43  <planetmaker> Just: should nightly and stable have different paths?
14:28:56  <planetmaker> Ammler, no. But besides the point
14:29:22  <planetmaker> e.g. firs1.tar/firs1/firs.grf
14:29:36  <planetmaker> and firs-nightly.tar/firs-nightly/firs.grf
14:29:38  <FooBar_> planetmaker: IMO yes. I like to keep the latest stable AND one nightly
14:29:43  <planetmaker> or should it be
14:29:52  <planetmaker> firs-nightly.tar/firs1/firs.grf?
14:29:58  <planetmaker> Then the nightly would replace the stable.
14:30:00  <Ammler> FooBar_: but you have the stable already in the content folder?
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14:30:48  <Ammler> well
14:30:48  <FooBar_> Ammler: I built the stable myself, so it's in the plain data folder
14:31:12  <FooBar_> I'm not interested in having to download a stable that the makefile can install for me automatically ;)
14:31:16  <planetmaker> yup. And then you cannot download it again :)
14:32:02  <Ammler> in fact
14:32:11  <Ammler> it depense how openttd behaves
14:32:17  <FooBar_> I'd say: firs1.tar/firs1/firs.grf; firs2.tar/firs2/firs.grf; firs-nightly.tar/firs-nightly/firs.grf etc.
14:32:18  <Ammler> if you have a stable and a nightly
14:32:47  <Ammler> you start a game with the nightly, change something and replace the nightly, which grf will then be loaded?
14:33:19  <FooBar_> The one with the same path, and a random one if the path is different
14:34:01  <Ammler> ok, planetmaker let us keep your current solution
14:34:01  <FooBar_> in the latter case you get the "compatible grf loaded for missing" message
14:34:27  <Ammler> and in the first case?
14:34:35  <Ammler> (md5sum changed either)
14:35:09  <FooBar_> if a file with the same path exists, it uses that one. dunno about the message though.
14:35:24  <Ammler> same, akaik
14:35:26  <FooBar_> I don't recall any in that case, besides the usual "don't change in running game"
14:35:35  <Ammler> afaik
14:35:59  <FooBar_> Maybe on gameload
14:36:34  <FooBar_> I usually keep the game open while changing nightlies for testing purposes and hit 'apply' in the newgrf window from there
14:37:30  <Ammler> yes that should work now
14:38:10  <FooBar_> stupid AI... It put a road where I planned to put my railroad :S
14:39:03  <FooBar_> Then I'll put a level crossing where it planned to drive it's road vehicles :P
14:40:40  <Ammler> good ais make bridgtes
14:41:37  <FooBar_> not if there's nothing to bridge yet
14:41:55  <FooBar_> the railroad wasn't there when it built it's road
14:42:04  <planetmaker> <FooBar_> I'd say: firs1.tar/firs1/firs.grf; firs2.tar/firs2/firs.grf; firs-nightly.tar/firs-nightly/firs.grf etc. <- I can live with that, if it's desired
14:42:33  <FooBar_> Desired is a big word, but it is my preferred solution :P
14:43:04  <planetmaker> <FooBar_> Maybe on gameload <-- well, that's what is important for stable ones.
14:43:36  <FooBar_> Correct, therefore it's important to keep the path the same to allow seamless upgrades
14:43:56  <Ammler> planetmaker: it could be the last byte of the grfid
14:44:13  <planetmaker> For development we can with the same nightly name - as now - update on a running game.
14:44:45  <FooBar_> yes, what you did for nightlies is goed
14:44:52  <FooBar_> good*
14:44:59  <FooBar_> darn Dutch...
14:45:05  <planetmaker> hehe... pronounced dutch it should sound the same, eh? ;)
14:45:17  <Ammler> yeah, ugly :P
14:45:54  <FooBar_> the translation of "good" in Dutch is "goed".
14:46:09  <planetmaker> he, yes :-)
14:46:13  <FooBar_> add that the transation of "is" in Dutch is "is" and you see where it went wrong :P
14:46:34  <Ammler> GRFID should be part of Makefile.local anyway ;-)
14:46:43  <planetmaker> good idea :)
14:46:48  <Ammler> Makefile.config I meant
14:46:52  <planetmaker> yeah^
14:47:38  <DJ_Nekkid> FooBar_: can you find any flaws?
14:47:39  <DJ_Nekkid>
14:47:44  <planetmaker> ok, but I see that the desired solution for stables is to have them only use the major path in the filenames / directories. Then I'll do that
14:47:49  <Ammler> maye a Makefile.project ?
14:47:58  <DJ_Nekkid> "invalid escape sequense"
14:48:08  <planetmaker> Ammler, what would be the difference to makefile.config?
14:48:29  <FooBar_> DJ_Nekkid: hang on, I need the manual with that...
14:48:38  <Ammler> hehe
14:48:52  <DJ_Nekkid> nvm
14:48:54  <DJ_Nekkid> its the callback
14:49:09  <Ammler> planetmaker: forget it :-)
14:49:19  <DJ_Nekkid> callback is \b, not \w :)
14:49:41  <planetmaker> I actually think of moving some of the definitions back to the makefile itself... but not sure.
14:49:58  <FooBar_> ok, can I stop checking then?
14:50:07  <DJ_Nekkid> i think so :)
14:50:13  <FooBar_> good :)
14:50:24  <Ammler> well, some configs are for the system
14:50:24  <DJ_Nekkid> nah
14:50:26  <DJ_Nekkid> even more!
14:50:29  <Ammler> some for the project
14:50:43  <DJ_Nekkid> oh
14:50:45  <DJ_Nekkid> hmm
14:50:46  <planetmaker> what's your distinction betwen project and system?
14:51:06  <DJ_Nekkid> running cost didnt fix it eithre
14:51:08  <Ammler> i.e. the tools (zip/grfcodec etc.)
14:51:26  <Ammler> or the install dir
14:51:37  <Ammler> everything which would be the same for every project, even.
14:51:41  <planetmaker> hm... they could be moved to makefile.local
14:51:55  <planetmaker> and removed from makefile.config
14:52:06  <planetmaker> and put into makefile straight away
14:52:12  <planetmaker> though... hm.
14:52:21  <Ammler> maybe, yes :-)
14:52:23  <FooBar_> yes, probably.
14:52:27  <FooBar_> :)
14:52:54  <FooBar_> by the way, on windows I can just run grfcodec without the .exe
14:53:03  <planetmaker> FooBar_, I know.
14:53:13  <planetmaker> no system needs anything else then "grfcodec"
14:53:21  <planetmaker> *than
14:53:22  <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: doesn't :P
14:53:30  <FooBar_> what's that cygwin distinction for then?
14:53:35  <planetmaker> I know that, too, Ammler :P
14:53:48  <DJ_Nekkid> Ammler: i dont what?
14:54:03  <planetmaker> FooBar_, no idea :)
14:54:13  <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: nvm, not really important ;-)
14:54:21  <planetmaker> I haven't tested it with cygwin, but copied this from nforenum or grfcodec makefile.
14:54:30  <Ammler> (the .exe part)
14:54:35  <DJ_Nekkid> but WTF, why dont it compile!
14:55:05  <FooBar_> lol... get rid of it then. If cygwin needs it, then it should be configured in makefile.local IMO, apart from cygwin needing fixing
14:55:18  <Ammler> if nobody does/can test it, you should remove it maybe
14:55:25  <Ammler> same with /bin/sh :-)
14:55:27  <planetmaker> though, FooBar_ where does the firs makefiles have cygwin stuff?
14:55:49  <FooBar_> I saw it in OpenGFX once IIRC
14:55:53  <planetmaker> (I consider that my reference one :P )
14:55:57  <FooBar_> dunno about FIRS from the top of my head
14:56:37  <planetmaker> ah, I guess old code there :P
14:56:53  <FooBar_> nope, FIRS one doesn't have it. Good work :)
14:57:02  <planetmaker> I cannot make it completely compatible to the newgrfs. Therefor OpenGFX makefiles is a bit more hassle to update as I cannot just copy&paste
14:57:26  <FooBar_> ok, that figures
14:58:03  <planetmaker> heqs, 2cctrainset, firs - they basically should all run on the same makefile and only differently configured makefile.config
14:58:43  <planetmaker> other newgrfs could use the very same one, too.
14:58:49  <FooBar_> in theory yes. They're all newgrfs with only one file needing to be compiled
14:58:52  <planetmaker> It's just simple copy & paste
14:59:06  <planetmaker> FooBar_, exactly. And that's what the makefile is taylored to do.
14:59:27  <FooBar_> "taylored"... I like that :P
14:59:27  <Ammler> that is restricted from banans too
14:59:29  <planetmaker> OpenGFX dependencies are different
14:59:43  <Ammler> it only support newgrfs with one grf
14:59:59  <planetmaker> Which is not really a bad thing, though.
15:00:18  <planetmaker> Why would you want more than one in one thing. You can define dependencies :)
15:00:20  <Ammler> doesn't matter
15:00:32  <Ammler> ECS
15:00:48  <planetmaker> "download all" :P
15:01:11  <DJ_Nekkid> MY GOD! why dont it work! *frustrated*
15:01:49  <Ammler> woot the grf bitch doesn't know? :P
15:02:03  <DJ_Nekkid> action 0's...
15:02:13  <DJ_Nekkid> in a documented fashion
15:02:15  <DJ_Nekkid> i hate that!
15:02:19  <DJ_Nekkid> much easier when its not :)
15:08:35  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Bug #243: Toyland Buildings' Construction Stages @ (by athanasios)
15:08:35  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Bug #243: Toyland Buildings' Construction Stages @ (by athanasios)
15:08:58  <DJ_Nekkid> found it!
15:09:34  <FooBar_> good, don't let it escape ;)
15:10:21  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #243: Toyland Buildings' Construction Stages @ (by athanasios)
15:10:21  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #243: Toyland Buildings' Construction Stages @ (by athanasios)
15:11:16  <FooBar_> Ammler: I just logged in to do that :P
15:12:46  <Ammler> :P
15:13:11  <DJ_Nekkid> bleh
15:13:19  <DJ_Nekkid> i ALWAYS mix up CB 11 and 12
15:20:48  <DJ_Nekkid> k... why isnt the mail working!
15:20:51  <DJ_Nekkid> no ... armored!
15:27:51  <DJ_Nekkid> the template seem to lack an action 12 ...
15:33:21  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 57: Change: move the GRF-ID into makefile.config @ (by planetmaker)
15:35:34  <Ammler> planetmaker: use the last byte of the ID for the path :-)
15:37:37  <planetmaker> hm... I think it should depend upon the tag.
15:38:06  <planetmaker> part of tag before the "." or so
15:38:44  <planetmaker> it will fail for transition 0.9 -> 1.0
15:38:49  <planetmaker> but I guess that's ok...
15:39:04  <FooBar_> yes, how often do you have such?
15:39:09  <planetmaker> once :)
15:39:18  <FooBar_> exactly
15:40:34  <planetmaker> Of course, I could also use the last part of the GRF-ID... is that better?
15:41:25  <FooBar_> Would make a bit of a weird of a tar/folder name if the last byte of the grfid doesn't start numbering from 01
15:41:40  <FooBar_> But in general I think it's a better solution
15:41:58  <FooBar_> As it /only/ keeps the last one of a range of compatible releases
15:42:04  <planetmaker> well... it only changes IF the grfID changes.
15:42:28  <FooBar_> but on the other hand...
15:42:41  <Ammler> that is the point
15:43:05  <FooBar_> FIRS 2.0 might contain features not wanted by die-hard FIRS 1.0 users, having both would be better in that case...
15:43:53  <Ammler> yep
15:44:03  <Ammler> won't you change the ID then?
15:44:15  <FooBar_> if it's compatible: no
15:44:29  <FooBar_> but then maybe I should...
15:44:34  * FooBar_ is confused
15:44:35  <planetmaker> FooBar_, well... it'd make sense :)
15:44:44  <Ammler> then you make FIRS 1.1
15:45:04  <planetmaker> if it's something new...
15:45:23  <planetmaker> ... it's not compatible anymore anyway.
15:45:35  <planetmaker> different industrial behaviour isn't compatible anyway. So...
15:45:47  <Ammler> it could be additinal
15:45:50  <planetmaker> uh... indeed that may give problems.
15:46:01  <planetmaker> so that will have to be well planned :)
15:46:57  <FooBar_> in that case we have derived that 1.0 and 2.0 should never have to be compatible, so using the tag or using the last byte of the grfID should then yield the same results...
15:47:26  <FooBar_> so...
15:47:36  <Ammler> well
15:47:37  <FooBar_> do whatever you like, I'm fine with either :)
15:47:47  <planetmaker> he :)
15:47:48  <Ammler> I guess, it is too much hassle
15:49:51  <planetmaker> well. It's feasable. Both. Just: what's better? In a general case?
15:51:06  <FooBar_> In a general case, using the tag is never wrong, but it could leave some unneccesary files behind
15:52:40  <FooBar_> Using the grfid never leaves unnecessary files and one usually would bump the grfid when going from 1.x to 2.x
15:53:18  <planetmaker> hm... I guess tag is nicer. As grfID may be chosen in a deviating way from the ... 01 rule, I guess
15:53:29  <FooBar_> So the only benefit of using the grfid would be the cleanup of 0.x as soon as 1.x gets available
15:53:33  <planetmaker> and how many v2.0 are compatible to v1.0?
15:53:39  <Ammler> tag isn't feasable
15:53:44  <planetmaker> Ammler, why?
15:53:45  <Ammler> as it could be everything
15:53:52  <planetmaker> it should not be.
15:54:17  <Ammler> well, you could "guide" hot the tag has to look
15:54:23  <Ammler> hwo
15:54:25  <Ammler> how
15:54:28  <planetmaker> :P
15:55:11  <FooBar_> but you could "guide" the last byte of the grfid as well...
15:56:05  <planetmaker> hehe
15:56:08  <FooBar_> 2cc set has a problem then though: it calls itself 1.0.1 but last byte is 02
15:56:11  <Ammler> well, that is also in the grf spec already.
15:56:14  <planetmaker> 2cctrainset would be 2 then already :)
15:56:20  <Ammler> recommend to use as version.
15:57:14  <planetmaker> Dutch Trainset would be 6
15:57:14  <Ammler> well version 2 would then be ASCII 2 :-)
15:57:33  <Ammler> or 3 :P
15:57:54  <Ammler> hehe, or directly release version 3 :P
15:58:09  <planetmaker> Dutch station set would be the equivalent of "S"
15:58:28  <FooBar_> dutch tramset will fail as well once I add it. The RC is at 02 :P
15:58:44  <Ammler> it doesn't matter
15:58:53  <FooBar_> don't convert to ascii, that's silly and might result in characters not allowed in filenames
15:58:54  <Ammler> as long as it rises from rlease to release
15:59:40  <Ammler> I meant ASCII "3" as GRFID
15:59:48  <planetmaker> <patchbot> SVN commit: r2124 by DaleStan to misc/nforenum/pseudo.cpp: Comments not prefixed by whitespace could cause NFORenum to reject the preceding escape. (Reported by DJ_Nekkid)
16:00:01  <Ammler> the path is then something like 2cc-65
16:00:15  <FooBar_> ah ok
16:00:39  <FooBar_> the other way round as I was thinking :)
16:03:24  <FooBar_> AI has built a shiproute: 59 buoys :P
16:04:44  <planetmaker> :O
16:04:59  <planetmaker> ok, shall I go by GRF-ID then?
16:05:26  <planetmaker> taking the numerical value of the last character
16:05:29  <Ammler> FooBar_: every tile?
16:05:57  <FooBar_> every 8 or so
16:06:38  <DJ_Nekkid> planetmaker: wanna supply a r2124 of renum then?
16:06:39  <DJ_Nekkid> :p
16:06:40  <Ammler> planetmaker: you mean converting to decimal?
16:06:40  <FooBar_> planetmaker: I'd take the exact value of the last byte
16:07:05  <planetmaker> Ammler, yes. Taking it as a decimal (base 10) number
16:07:16  <FooBar_> I tend to use that byte as decimal anyways
16:07:17  <Ammler> yeah, why not, sounds ok
16:07:58  <Ammler> 2cctrainset2.grf looks better then 2cc01
16:08:13  <Ammler> he
16:08:25  <FooBar_> Mind you that I'll be complaining if I go from FBFB0309 to FBFB0310 ;)
16:08:36  <planetmaker> hm... I think I'll require the GRF_ID to be in the form of \b<number> then within makefile.config ;)
16:08:55  <planetmaker> FooBar_, yes, sure ;)
16:09:17  <planetmaker> I take the entry (whole byte)
16:09:22  <FooBar_> ok cool
16:09:33  <planetmaker> or I'd have a problem with "S" :P
16:09:34  <FooBar_> then I'm good
16:10:24  <planetmaker> but I'll require GRF_ID then be written as GRF_ID = A0 03 04 \b01
16:10:31  <planetmaker> but that doesn't hurt, I guess
16:10:38  <FooBar_> I'm fine with that
16:10:53  <Ammler> planetmaker: basically, you don't change the path for releases anymore now, is that fine with you?
16:11:35  <planetmaker> I change it with the GRFID. Majority seems to like it :P
16:11:49  <Ammler> but zip and such do still have the version, I assume?
16:12:09  <planetmaker> what has version?
16:12:18  <planetmaker> I would remove it from all file and path names.
16:12:20  <Ammler> the tag
16:12:46  <Ammler> yes, tar without
16:12:54  <Ammler> I meant the bundle for distribution
16:13:01  <planetmaker> so we have two grfs being made: firs-01 and firs-01-nightly
16:13:16  <FooBar_> just firs-nightly would doi
16:13:18  <FooBar_> do*
16:13:22  <planetmaker> should it have, Ammler?
16:13:34  <planetmaker> FooBar_, yeah, could do, no problem
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16:13:46  <planetmaker> But... maybe you introduce a branch :P
16:13:57  <Ammler> planetmaker: how do I see the version of a pack I downloaded?
16:14:06  <planetmaker> you don't, Ammler :P
16:14:23  <planetmaker> yes, it makes sense to keep it there.
16:14:29  <planetmaker> and also in the tar filename.
16:14:39  <Ammler> and in the readme, if available
16:14:40  <planetmaker> as tar filenames don't matter
16:14:50  <planetmaker> readme is another issue. Completely independent :)
16:15:08  <Ammler> preproccessor
16:15:27  <planetmaker> yes
16:16:28  <FooBar_> I think you should have a case of "make bundle" that puts the revision/full tag in the tar filename AND the folder-in-tar and a case of "make install" that only keeps the last byte of the grfid in both.
16:16:44  <Ammler> well, basically, you can use the "sheme" of ususal software
16:16:46  <DJ_Nekkid> jeesus, this is wierd...
16:16:48  <Ammler> like openttd :-)
16:17:38  <Ammler> FooBar_: that is like now :-)
16:17:47  <FooBar_> In case bundles have a different tar name but same folder-in-tar name, OpenTTD starts guessing what's the newest...
16:18:05  <Ammler> no, it doesn't
16:18:06  <Brot6> OpenGFX: nightly compile not needed. (r72)
16:18:13  <Ammler> it usese randomly one
16:18:25  <FooBar_> yeah...that I meant
16:18:46  <Ammler> so it important, that the old one will be replaced.
16:18:52  <Ammler> is*
16:19:28  <FooBar_> true, but it's important that the tar name is different in case of a nightly, which might result in it not getting replaced...
16:20:21  <Ammler> I can live with that, but imo, it wouldn't be needed, either. ;-)
16:20:58  <FooBar_> I too, but users can't.
16:21:31  <FooBar_> You'll get all sorts of bug reports like "I downloaded nightly rxx but can't find it in the list I can't"
16:23:03  <FooBar_> therefore the disctinction between "make bundle" and "make install"
16:23:30  <FooBar_> i.e. "make bundle" being used on the compile farm for users and "make install" for us not wanting to keep multiple nightlies
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16:32:43  <Ammler> maqunista is able to make such silly grfs, but a bit ActionA is too much?
16:33:09  <Ammler> or whatever the openttdw.grf would need
16:33:55  <FooBar_> what?
16:34:21  <Ammler> actually a nice idea, to make some sprties available as station :-)
16:34:40  <FooBar_> either you're in the wrong channel or I missed something :S
16:35:03  <Ammler>
16:35:05  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - [32bpp] Extra zoom levels Graphics (at
16:35:21  <Ammler> well, a bit OT it might be :P
16:36:40  <FooBar_> you can say that again :P
16:42:48  <Frankr> is DJ_Nekkid there?
16:43:21  <FooBar_> he was about 20 mins ago
16:43:32  <Frankr> kk
16:44:17  <Ammler> Frankr: just ask him , what you like, he might read it later and answer you then.
16:48:39  <Frankr> do either of u two know wat variation 1 is partially obscured means?
16:49:49  <FooBar_> sounds like something with a bitmask...
16:53:19  <Frankr> ty anyway
16:56:55  <Ammler> never ask, if someone knows something :P
16:57:14  <Ammler> it is much easier to find out, if you ask and see if someone answers
16:58:25  <planetmaker> hm... it should be no problem for openttd to use differently named tar files. The filename of the tar is stripped from the path. So there could be the version in any case.
16:58:44  <planetmaker> but then we'd have again... different files :P
16:58:58  <FooBar_> ...with the same path and name
16:59:36  <FooBar_> which is actually two problems and no solution at all :P
16:59:41  <planetmaker> :P
16:59:51  <planetmaker> hm... make install for us and make bundle for others?
17:00:01  <FooBar_> seems the best solution if you ask me
17:00:08  <planetmaker> with different paths and filenames?
17:00:18  <FooBar_> bundle: yes
17:00:19  <planetmaker> e.g. make bundle as now, only make install differently
17:00:26  <FooBar_> yep
17:00:26  <planetmaker> with all the same name?
17:00:28  <Ammler> no
17:00:33  <Ammler> attention :P
17:00:42  * FooBar_ pays attention
17:00:54  * planetmaker senses tension ;)
17:01:04  <planetmaker> or rather a tension ;)
17:01:09  <Ammler> sorry :-D
17:01:19  <planetmaker> hey, just playing words. go on
17:01:25  <Ammler> I have first to check it self
17:02:23  <FooBar_> planetmaker: bundle: different path different filename; install: same path same filename
17:02:45  <Ammler> if you have 2 tars with same path, which one will be loaded?
17:02:51  <planetmaker> feasable. Though it's... a peculiar interpretation of these names.
17:02:54  <Ammler> that is randomly, not?
17:03:01  <FooBar_> Ammler: yes, random
17:03:02  <planetmaker> I thinks so, Ammler
17:03:25  <Ammler> so you can't use different named tar files
17:03:45  <FooBar_> only if you do the path inside the tar different as well
17:03:54  <Ammler> yep
17:04:07  <FooBar_> and we /need/ different tar names for the bundle repo
17:05:42  <Ammler> bundle repo?
17:05:53  <FooBar_>
17:06:06  <Ammler> you mean the nightly server?
17:06:17  <FooBar_> yeah whatever :P
17:06:17  <Ammler> well, that doesn't matter there
17:06:21  <planetmaker> hm... I wonder whether it might not seem sane to introduce something like make dev-install
17:06:28  <planetmaker> and leave the rest as is
17:06:35  <FooBar_> Ammler: why wouldn't it matter?
17:07:00  <Ammler> if the Makefile doesn't support it, the script can make a "move"
17:07:19  <Ammler> Makefile needs to be perfect for dev
17:07:31  <planetmaker> dev-install would just use one common filename and path - no matter what ...
17:07:36  <FooBar_> yes, but then you're still stuck with same path names in differently named tars
17:07:46  <planetmaker> Ammler, "perfect" depends upon what one wants - which may differ from dev to dev ;)
17:08:15  <Ammler> indeed perfect is a ugly word :P
17:08:24  <planetmaker> hm... the idea of make dev-install sounds intriguing.
17:08:57  <FooBar_> four characters too much. Let users have something different: make user-install :P
17:09:20  <planetmaker> FooBar_, but that's vs. the common concepts. That's bad IMO
17:09:28  <planetmaker> Standards are not there for the simple minded only.
17:09:43  <FooBar_> I guess you're right...
17:10:18  <FooBar_> Invent a shorter alias for dev-install then :P
17:10:31  <planetmaker> dev :P
17:10:37  <FooBar_> perfect
17:11:34  <FooBar_> see, if used in the right context, "perfect" ain't that ugly ;)
17:11:40  <planetmaker> so... what do we do with nightlies? Do they behave like dev, e.g. like now, always the same name and path?
17:12:06  <planetmaker> e.g. a make install on a nightly = make dev on a nightly?
17:12:11  <FooBar_> if so, then we can't keep a nightly repository
17:12:37  <planetmaker> ok. I kinda revert my last change then (partially) and move that to make dev or so.
17:12:47  <planetmaker> nightly archive is nice and an argument
17:13:02  <FooBar_> exactly my point being
17:13:14  <planetmaker> I was just agreeing ;)
17:13:33  <FooBar_> good :)
17:13:43  <FooBar_> or "goed" if you like :P
17:13:50  <planetmaker> I don't mind either.
17:14:00  <planetmaker> If you wanna teach me Dutch, I'll actually be glad :)
17:14:19  <planetmaker> It's a 'project' of mine which I have in mind for like ages, but alas...
17:14:22  <FooBar_> Blij? Waarvoor dat dan?
17:15:04  <Ammler> "what is it for" ?
17:15:31  <FooBar_> Either English or German works perfectly fine in dutchyland if you're a tourist or something
17:15:32  <planetmaker> voor de pret
17:16:01  <FooBar_> ok, whatever floats your boat ;)
17:16:19  <FooBar_> I didn't learn English for fun, it's a mere neccessity
17:16:58  <planetmaker> voor de grooter plezier in de Nederlands in de vakantie
17:17:10  <FooBar_> Nor German, but I'm not so good at that...
17:17:45  <FooBar_> planetmaker: that look like a bad google translator translation :P sorry to say, but it just does...
17:18:12  <planetmaker> wellicht och voor het werk.
17:18:14  <FooBar_> try "voor meer plezier op vakantie in Nederland" ;)
17:18:22  <planetmaker> FooBar_, it kinda is :P
17:18:30  <planetmaker> looking up words :P
17:18:33  <FooBar_> hehehe
17:18:40  <FooBar_> och -> ook
17:18:55  <planetmaker> he :)
17:19:25  <FooBar_> if you want to be taught, you'll know it ;)
17:19:42  <planetmaker> yes, probably :)
17:19:54  <planetmaker> I didn't look up that :) And wrongly went by memory
17:19:59  <FooBar_> do you live close to NL?
17:20:20  <planetmaker> moderatly. It's maybe 3...4 hours drive or so.
17:20:28  <FooBar_> och seems a bit of a combination of "ook" and "auch"...
17:20:34  <planetmaker> yup. :)
17:20:39  <FooBar_> not so close...
17:21:05  <planetmaker> close enough to go there for an occasional weekend.
17:21:25  <FooBar_> I'm probably quicker in Germany from where I am now. And I'm all the way at the west coast :P
17:21:32  <planetmaker> :P
17:21:46  <planetmaker> well... The border might be half way, maybe not quite.
17:21:57  <planetmaker> which town are you in?
17:22:09  <FooBar_> make that city: the hague
17:22:22  <planetmaker> I don't distinguish between town and city :)
17:22:45  <FooBar_> I do appearently
17:22:50  <FooBar_> :P
17:23:48  <FooBar_> was born and raised like 20 minutes driving from the German border though
17:23:49  <planetmaker> hm... google tells me, that wel then live 4:46h apart :)
17:24:32  <planetmaker> hm... 125km isn't far... it isn't 4h for sure :P
17:24:38  <planetmaker> to the border
17:25:03  <planetmaker> must be that I usually go to Eindhoven or Utrecht that it seems longer :)
17:25:44  <planetmaker> or Tilburg or Leiden when we're at it.
17:26:53  <FooBar_> where you live then?
17:27:16  <planetmaker> Braunschweig. about half an hour East of Hanover
17:28:09  <FooBar_> ok, I would've guessed a little closer to the border
17:28:22  <planetmaker> well. It's obviously only 125km :)
17:28:51  <planetmaker> wait... no.
17:29:02  <planetmaker> I did mis-interpret google map's route planning ;)
17:29:05  <FooBar_> I guess around 200
17:29:39  <FooBar_> around 260 it tells me
17:30:14  <planetmaker> makes sense, yes
17:31:52  <FooBar_> I see Wolfsburg is close to Braunschweig...
17:31:57  <FooBar_> ever been to Autostadt?
17:32:17  <planetmaker> yep. We did an excursion there last year from our institute.
17:32:37  <planetmaker> it's impressive :)
17:32:50  <FooBar_> you can say that again. I've seen it on tv a while back
17:32:53  <planetmaker> they have more area covered with roof than Lichtenstein has total state area :P
17:33:13  <FooBar_> If I'm ever buying a volkswagen, I'm collecting it there myself :P
17:33:20  <planetmaker> hehe :)
17:34:18  <FooBar_> I'm still interested in a golf convertible, but I don't know if they still make those...
17:34:32  <planetmaker> hm... dunno either actually.
17:34:37  <planetmaker> I *think* they might
17:36:21  <FooBar_> On the Dutch volkswagen website they only have the beetle as convertible
17:38:27  <FooBar_> and so it seems on the German website as well...
17:38:51  <FooBar_> otoh, the older model is way nicer as convertible anyways
17:39:41  <FooBar_> although that wouldn't have an automatic "make convertible" function
17:40:05  <FooBar_> and that being enough about cars and the bridge back to makefiles
17:40:53  <FooBar_> I'm off for a while... I'm gonna do the dishes
17:42:39  <planetmaker> enjoy :P
17:53:52  <planetmaker> Ammler, FooBar_ maybe you can check whether in the firs repository make grf, make bundle, make install and make dev now work as they should
17:53:57  <Ammler> someone knows, how hg log -X works?
17:54:12  <planetmaker> basically make dev is what we want, if we want no changing file, path and tar name.
17:54:15  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 58: Feature: introduce 'make dev' which installs a grf w... @ (by planetmaker)
17:54:18  <planetmaker> installed in our install path
17:54:54  <FooBar_> lemme try
17:54:57  <planetmaker> bundle is as it was before, creating versioned path and filenames
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17:55:11  <Ammler> with the whole version?
17:55:18  <planetmaker> as before
17:55:30  <planetmaker> haven't changed that yet.
17:56:01  <Ammler> well, the thing with only ONE grf in the data was thought for users too :-)
17:56:25  <planetmaker> Ammler, but foobar's point is to keep a nightly repository :)
17:56:31  <planetmaker> that wouldn't be possible then :)
17:56:38  <Ammler> I think, you don't need to invest effort in support both.
17:56:49  <planetmaker> it's no real effort.
17:57:04  <planetmaker> it's just another name :)
17:57:10  <planetmaker> and the same thing applied there.
17:58:18  <FooBar_> make bundle failed on zip here, but that's probably my problem
17:58:19  <Ammler> so make dev is make install but in same path
17:58:42  <planetmaker> kind of yes.
17:58:54  <Ammler> sounds well :-)
17:58:56  <planetmaker> it constantly overwrites the same tar file in your install dir
17:59:07  <planetmaker> with the seemingly same content
17:59:17  <planetmaker> judging by filenames and paths.
17:59:43  <planetmaker> FooBar_, that might be. I have to change that locally on one of my computers, too
17:59:57  <planetmaker> edit your makefile.local accordingly :)
18:00:11  <Ammler> use 7zip
18:00:17  <planetmaker> I used what works on my linux box
18:00:21  <FooBar_> make install and make dev work as expected for me
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18:02:48  <planetmaker> ok, that's good.
18:02:51  <Ammler> he, something we don't have on our devzone: AIs ;-)
18:03:01  <planetmaker> Ammler, not yet, yes...
18:03:41  <planetmaker> I talked with Yexo about that once. Basically it seems to be difficult to get to terms what you want with an AI ;)
18:03:44  <Ammler> admiralai is on version 22, last time I used that was around 10
18:04:03  <Brot6> firs: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
18:04:15  <planetmaker> hehe :) We should play PS with one competition. Will teach people efficiency :)
18:05:21  <Ammler> nah, they are easy beatable
18:05:43  <Ammler> don't think, AdmiralAI has any chance, either Version 22
18:06:43  <Ammler> noaicomp is still installed on my server ;-)
18:07:49  <planetmaker> nice :)
18:08:38  <FooBar_> actually, I don't need the zip anyways, so let it fail :)
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18:11:34  <FooBar_> make: ohnoyoudont: Command not found :P
18:11:47  <planetmaker> :P
18:12:18  <FooBar_> as I don't need the bz2 either :P
18:17:11  <planetmaker> FooBar_, then you don't need make bundle. You could just as well use make tar then :)
18:17:45  <FooBar_> there you have a point...
18:17:49  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 59: Fix: have make bundle do nothing if everything is up... @ (by planetmaker)
18:20:57  <planetmaker> so... question: should I introduce another target 'nightly' in order to keep the versioned files (e.g. rename bundle to it) and strip the minor versions from make install as discussed before?
18:23:34  <FooBar_> yes, I think you should
18:23:52  <FooBar_> in that case you can drop make dev altogether, as make install would do essentially the same
18:24:03  <planetmaker> he... true.
18:24:09  <planetmaker> :P
18:33:08  <Ammler> well, i thought about changing the nightly repo with additional folder
18:33:15  <Ammler> like openttd
18:33:49  <planetmaker> hm?
18:33:59  <Ammler> <title>/<rev|tag>/<title>.tar
18:34:32  <Ammler> or zip
18:35:16  <FooBar_> possible...
18:35:16  <andythenorth> (watching makefile discussion with interest)...been climbing in the roof of our building.  dusty
18:35:33  <planetmaker> /home/ingo/ottd/openttd-trunk-r15896-linux-generic-i686: <-- that's how openttd does it.
18:35:43  <Ammler> because I would like to include a changelog.txt there :-)
18:35:56  <planetmaker> title-rev|tag/file.grf
18:36:16  <planetmaker> what does changelog.txt have to do with this?
18:36:31  <Ammler> planetmaker: that is how the cf of openttd does it :-)
18:37:02  <planetmaker> define "that". I just posted verbatim what openttd distributes.
18:37:39  <Ammler> well in the current folder, how or where would you solve that?
18:37:43  <planetmaker> I have the strong feeling you want to make the point for something which is already feasable without any change.
18:37:59  <Ammler> planetmaker: I meant, it is not up to the makefile
18:38:18  <Ammler> the openttd install doesn't make "versioned" folders
18:38:45  <planetmaker> yes.
18:38:48  <planetmaker> and?
18:38:49  <Ammler> but for distribution, this would be nice.
18:38:56  <planetmaker> exactly.
18:39:29  <planetmaker> distribution = what make bundle does right now
18:39:49  <planetmaker> testing purposes = what make dev does right now
18:40:25  <planetmaker> so... make install should overwrite a compatible grf.
18:40:39  <planetmaker> with the major version as derived from the GRFID
18:40:50  <planetmaker> hm...
18:40:51  <Ammler> oh
18:40:54  <planetmaker> or?
18:40:57  <Ammler> you added that either :-)
18:41:12  <FooBar_> planetmaker: make install should indeed do that imo
18:41:18  <Ammler> for make dev?
18:41:27  <planetmaker> make install _currently_ installs the verbose paths.
18:42:03  <planetmaker> ok... confusion comes up.
18:42:06  <planetmaker> What do we want?
18:42:11  <Ammler> :-)
18:42:14  <planetmaker> what do we need?
18:42:29  <planetmaker> I don't feel like changing everything in circles constantly.
18:42:52  <FooBar_> :)
18:43:13  <planetmaker> a) dev install: same filename and path always
18:43:16  <andythenorth> :) I spend a lot of time tweaking offsets.  When I have finished one vehicle I like to make a commit (more)
18:43:28  <planetmaker> b) distribution files: zip, bz2, tar with full versions
18:43:46  <planetmaker> c) update files which overwrite compatible newgrfs
18:44:06  <planetmaker> andythenorth, I play with the firs set. So heqs is save :P
18:44:16  <planetmaker> right now that is :)
18:44:18  <andythenorth> good, but I have problems of my own :)
18:44:26  <DJ_Nekkid>
18:44:31  <DJ_Nekkid> template!
18:44:35  <DJ_Nekkid> have a look!
18:44:47  <Ammler> is it a grf?
18:44:50  <DJ_Nekkid> yes!
18:44:52  <FooBar_> a) -> make dev-install b) -> make nightly c) -> make install
18:44:53  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - tempplate.nfo.grf @ (by DJNekkid)
18:45:01  <DJ_Nekkid> just a bit fucked up batfile :p
18:45:18  <andythenorth> FooBar_: makes sense.  sorry missed some of this earlier :(
18:45:21  <planetmaker> FooBar_, shouldn't b) be called make bundle?
18:45:27  <DJ_Nekkid> attach the normal pax coach
18:46:08  *** Simozzz has quit IRC
18:46:11  <FooBar_> planetmaker: make bundle is fine
18:46:36  <planetmaker> FooBar_, but then: do the bundles not overwrite the old version?
18:46:45  <andythenorth> fine with me.  Make dev looks like it might solve the problem I have
18:46:49  <FooBar_> in this case: no
18:46:50  <planetmaker> they should then do that, shouldn't they?
18:46:57  <planetmaker> I mean, if you unpack them
18:47:27  <FooBar_> if so, then you shouldn't provide a tar
18:47:41  <planetmaker> hm... wouldn't suffice to keep a zip with the appropriate name?
18:47:45  <FooBar_> as the risk of two tars with different names but same paths is unacceptable
18:48:03  <FooBar_> imo
18:48:06  <planetmaker> yes. then we need to skip tar as distribution. Doesn't hurt, though
18:48:25  <andythenorth> I don't distribute tar.  What's the use case for it?
18:48:41  <FooBar_> that you don't need to extract it
18:48:47  <planetmaker> andythenorth, just put in into your data dir and be fine
18:48:55  <andythenorth> ah yes
18:49:09  <FooBar_> which is a major advantage, but also a major problem at the moment
18:49:16  <planetmaker> he, yes.
18:49:43  <andythenorth> Because I want to distribute a pdf manual, I'm preferring zip for distribution.  That could be changed.
18:50:05  <planetmaker> ok. So I'll create a zip and bzip2 with the full version information. Which can also be put in our nightly archive
18:50:10  <FooBar_> I'd say do just two options: create a fully versioned bundle and create a major-only versioned bundle
18:50:51  <planetmaker> wouldn't it suffice to just keep distinct zip files?
18:51:07  <planetmaker> the files packed would overwrite a previous version?
18:51:09  <FooBar_> with the filenames inside being the same for each release?
18:51:13  <planetmaker> yes
18:51:14  <planetmaker> ?
18:51:19  <FooBar_> ok, yes that would do
18:51:31  <planetmaker> then we would have solved that issue for all people :)
18:51:41  <FooBar_> indeed we do
18:51:50  <DJ_Nekkid> Ammler: "looks" good? :p
18:51:51  <andythenorth> FYI, I manually keep a 'releases' folder locally outside the repo for reference to previous releases.  I'm also uploading those to devzone 'files' section.  I store the zips in there, to the scheme FooBar_ described just now above (same grf name)
18:51:52  <planetmaker> maybe not bananas. But that's nothing we can help
18:52:02  <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: nice
18:52:19  <DJ_Nekkid> too bad Valuables dont work
18:52:27  <DJ_Nekkid> but as far as i can see is that a bug in ttd
18:52:38  <FooBar_> bananas eats zip files iirc
18:53:06  <andythenorth> bananas hates my pdf :(
18:53:17  <FooBar_> it shouldn't...
18:53:37  <andythenorth> well it does
18:53:40  <andythenorth> :D
18:53:53  <FooBar_> As long as it's named "readme.pdf" it should be accepted. At least that's the theory
18:54:04  <planetmaker> andythenorth, you name it wrongly :)
18:54:11  <andythenorth> name would explain it
18:54:16  <planetmaker> it does :)
18:54:32  <planetmaker> the usuage information of bananas tell you the acceptable filenames and types
18:54:32  <Ammler> bundle: create a dir (withoutversion), compile grf there and copy the docs there
18:54:54  <Ammler> install copy a tar of that dir
18:55:18  <Ammler> release: copy a tar with version of that dir
18:55:32  <planetmaker> hm...
18:56:00  <FooBar_> release goes wrong: it cannot be a tar for reasons of multiple files with same path/name info
18:56:06  <planetmaker> Ammler, ^
18:56:20  <planetmaker> release make a zip with version information of that dir
18:56:24  <planetmaker> ^ how does that sound?
18:56:25  <FooBar_> if release copies a zip and bzip2 of that dir with version info, then it works
18:56:34  <FooBar_> :)
18:57:00  <Ammler> basoh
18:57:04  <Ammler> oh
18:57:11  <Ammler> we shouldn't make tar anyway
18:57:27  <Ammler> didn't we find out that already, planetmaker?
18:57:31  <FooBar_> tar is only really useful for OpenGFX anyhow
18:57:44  <Ammler> tar is only useful, if you have more than one grf
18:57:52  <Ammler> yes :-)
18:57:55  <FooBar_> :)
18:58:13  <andythenorth>  :)
18:58:32  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Heavy Equipment Set - Revision 85: Change: renamed manual to readme.pdf @ (by andythenorth)
18:58:32  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Heavy Equipment Set - Revision 86: Change: renamed manual source to readme.pages for Bananas comp... @ (by andythenorth)
18:58:32  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Heavy Equipment Set - Revision 87: Merge @ (by andythenorth)
18:58:34  <Ammler> but
18:58:47  <Ammler> shouldn't the release overwrite the dir, too?
18:58:54  <planetmaker> yes.
18:59:06  <Ammler> so just the zip itself has the version info?
18:59:10  <planetmaker> yes
18:59:16  <planetmaker> just the zip filename
18:59:20  <Ammler> NICE
18:59:28  <planetmaker> now you have what you want :P
18:59:29  <andythenorth> yes
18:59:32  <Ammler> that is how I wanted, isn't?
18:59:36  <FooBar_> can we still have major release in path/file?
18:59:37  <Ammler> hehe
18:59:51  <Ammler> hmm
18:59:58  <Ammler> now, back to the compile farm
18:59:58  <planetmaker> Ammler, correct wording would be: "you may get what you want" :P
19:00:09  <planetmaker> once the makefile changed ;)
19:00:28  <FooBar_> or last byte of grfid thingy?
19:00:35  <Ammler> and we still have the "issue" with Bananas
19:00:46  <planetmaker> yes, that will be included, FooBar_ in the "unversioned thing"
19:00:47  <Ammler> you need a target bananas ;-)
19:01:00  <planetmaker> Ammler, can be done, too
19:01:11  <Ammler> which makes a zip without dir
19:01:28  <planetmaker> can one upload a zip there?
19:01:35  <FooBar_> or just don't put the dir in the zip, as for a zip that isn't really needed anyhow
19:01:42  <FooBar_> IIRC one can upload a zip
19:01:52  <Ammler> it is for the release
19:02:56  <planetmaker> for releases it's needed. People unpack it and then it's in the proper dir. I like that actually if it doesn't spam the current folder but neatly creates its own with the files unpacked.
19:03:08  <planetmaker> avoids overwriting readme.txt and stuff
19:03:36  <FooBar_> ok, I usually only extract the actual grf and throw the rest out
19:03:42  <planetmaker> :D
19:03:50  <planetmaker> do-not-readme.txt :P
19:04:00  <planetmaker> never complain about users not reading it then ;)
19:04:07  <FooBar_> I don't
19:04:36  <FooBar_> But I do redownload it again if something isn't working like expected to read the readme
19:04:41  <andythenorth> this is kind of useful, and I kind of need to go offline for 20 mins :(
19:05:08  <planetmaker> <-- that's our baseline / target now ?
19:05:27  <FooBar_> andythenorth: ask for a transcript when you get back
19:05:34  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Support #244: Re-wamp makesystem @ (by planetmaker)
19:05:40  <planetmaker> andythenorth, get a bouncer :)
19:05:42  <andythenorth> re wamp :)
19:05:54  <planetmaker> ah... I knew it was wrong ;)
19:06:03  <planetmaker> forgot to check before I hit "sent" ;)
19:06:10  <andythenorth> my mother-in-law says rewamp.  She's indian :)  She also says wodka
19:06:23  * planetmaker does that probably, too ;)
19:07:09  <andythenorth> ok, so 'make dev' is dropped from that list then?
19:07:19  <planetmaker> it's not really needed then...
19:07:28  <FooBar_> yes, as make install is basically the same
19:07:29  <andythenorth> make install gets the same result
19:07:30  <planetmaker> well. Check it and add :)
19:07:55  <Ammler> and a "make dir" ?
19:08:19  <planetmaker> Ammler, that's nothing which the user of the makefile needs to know about. But I'll need it as dependency.
19:08:33  <planetmaker> we have it actually.
19:08:34  <Ammler> well; i would that too
19:08:39  <planetmaker> why?
19:08:44  <andythenorth> will do later.  Constantly quitting open ttd and reloading it when the file version incremented was driving me nuts.
19:08:48  <Ammler> then I don't need to install
19:08:55  <Ammler> that is like make bundle in openttd
19:09:08  <planetmaker> it has no use for you, Ammler... use make tar :)
19:09:16  <FooBar_> as long as "unversioned" reads <name>[nightly|major_rev] I think it's fine
19:09:18  <planetmaker> or use make dir. It will be there.
19:09:21  <Ammler> nah, no tar
19:09:26  <Ammler> I like to see the files
19:10:05  <andythenorth> unzip?  :)
19:10:06  <planetmaker> FooBar_, unversioned = really no version except major rev. No distinction between nightly and releases
19:10:10  <planetmaker> or is it needed?
19:10:12  <Ammler> lol
19:10:26  <Ammler> not here :P
19:10:42  <andythenorth> unversioned not wanted by me
19:10:46  <FooBar_> like said this afternoon: i like to keep the latest release and a nightly
19:11:17  <FooBar_> or to be more precise: latest release and latest home-made build
19:11:54  <andythenorth> 'keep' in your data folder, or in your local repo?
19:12:02  <FooBar_> in data folder
19:12:09  <Ammler> FooBar_: but then you can't just hig apply, if you fix a stable ;-)
19:12:10  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 210: added the template .grf and .pcx ... This will work on _MOST_ mus @ (by DJNekkid)
19:12:39  <planetmaker> you two sort that out ;)
19:12:46  <FooBar_> Ammler: nightly <=> stable transitions will be very rare
19:12:55  <andythenorth> FooBar_: I used to do that.  It helps check 'did this work in a previous version, did I break it, or did ottd nightly break it??'
19:13:12  <andythenorth> FooBar_: I currently have stopped doing that
19:13:27  <andythenorth> because openttd has retarded behaviour in the 'rescan' files window
19:13:41  <andythenorth> but that's an ottd problem, not a make problem?
19:14:08  <planetmaker> andythenorth, there was at least one fix today. It doesn't crash anymore, if you delete files.
19:14:09  <Ammler> but that problem doesn't exist, if you overwrite the grf, imo.
19:14:32  <Ammler> then it just reloads
19:14:43  <Ammler> rescan doesn't work here either
19:14:44  <andythenorth> But if you overwrite the grf, it doesn't meet the use case I described above.  i.e. something broke - did it used to work?
19:14:57  <andythenorth> I had that problem with HEQS several times recently.
19:14:58  <Ammler> sometime, I will look why.
19:15:09  <andythenorth> Mostly due to the ottd nightlies breaking newgrf features
19:15:39  <andythenorth> In that case I could check old versions of the grf and latest version to be sure it wasn't me who had broken something
19:15:46  <Ammler> andythenorth: hg up 1.0 && make -> test -> hg up tip && make -> apply test
19:16:19  <planetmaker> make install instead of make ;)
19:16:25  <Ammler> or that :P
19:16:29  <andythenorth> meh.  might as well move the files around :P
19:16:39  <Ammler> yep
19:16:40  <andythenorth> from my well-maintained release archive
19:16:41  <andythenorth> :)
19:17:05  <FooBar_> all too much effort if I could just have the latest compile and the latest stable in the data dir...
19:17:06  <Ammler> but as long as the path is identical, it should load the new grf
19:17:21  <Ammler> at least, it did last time I fixed something on 2cc
19:17:29  <planetmaker> FooBar_, then you cannot compare with a simple "re-apply"
19:17:29  <FooBar_> yes, it does do that
19:17:29  <andythenorth> my example is an edge case.  but it happened.
19:17:56  <FooBar_> planetmaker: I don't care. To be sure I need to start a new game anyways.
19:17:56  <andythenorth> gah, newgrf needs versions.  then this would go away
19:18:22  <planetmaker> FooBar_, somewhat true.
19:18:38  <Ammler> andythenorth: that needs time, we need a good solution now :-)
19:18:41  <planetmaker> should I add a 4th target: make versioned-archive ?
19:18:53  <planetmaker> with paths?
19:19:05  <andythenorth> hell why not
19:19:08  <andythenorth> :)
19:19:22  <Ammler> planetmaker: that would then also be for the compile farm?
19:19:43  <Ammler> with a changelog.txt :P
19:19:45  <planetmaker> I thought you would use make release
19:20:08  <planetmaker> zip-filename with version containing unversioned path and newgrf
19:20:18  <Ammler> ah, versioned-archive has the version string
19:20:30  <Ammler> in the dir?
19:20:33  <planetmaker> no
19:20:42  <planetmaker> in the filename of the zip
19:20:52  <planetmaker> so that people can update :)
19:21:10  <planetmaker> but hell.... does it all make sense?
19:21:29  <andythenorth> well I'm lost.  but I think you're getting there ;)
19:21:31  <FooBar_> can you do if(tag) { path = path + major_version; } ?
19:21:37  <planetmaker> yes
19:21:44  <planetmaker> I actually do that :)
19:21:46  <andythenorth> that would do.
19:21:48  <FooBar_> that's everything I need
19:21:52  <planetmaker> well. not major version but revision.
19:21:57  <andythenorth> the case I gave above, I only test against releases
19:21:59  <planetmaker> but that's "details".
19:22:10  <planetmaker> major version is giving me headaches, but should be feasable.
19:22:23  <andythenorth> would you rather be writing varaction 2 :)
19:22:34  <FooBar_> well, instead of major version you can do the last byte of the grfid. That's sufficient as well
19:22:38  <Ammler> well, the Compile Farm needs: <project>/[releases|nightlies]/[tag/rXX]/title-[tag|rXX].zip
19:23:02  <planetmaker> what is that many paths you have there?
19:23:02  <FooBar_> with no version in the zip
19:24:22  <Ammler> example for 2cc-nightly: 2cctrainset/nightlies/r45/
19:25:04  <Ammler> 2cc-release: 2cctrainset/releases/1.1/
19:25:24  <Ammler> but I can do that with scripts
19:25:46  <planetmaker> Ammler, well... the makefile should IMO create the files always in the main repo dir
19:25:51  <planetmaker> or the dirs.
19:26:11  <planetmaker> that's where I look at least :)
19:26:17  <Ammler> or without the subdir for versions?
19:26:26  <Ammler> (like it is now)
19:27:05  <planetmaker> now we have everything in the same dir
19:27:14  <planetmaker> firs/
19:27:20  <Ammler> yep
19:27:24  <planetmaker> firs/
19:27:33  <Ammler> but I would like to add at least a changelog.txt
19:27:45  <planetmaker> Ammler, it is enclosed in the zip...
19:27:49  <planetmaker> already. now
19:27:53  <Ammler> not the manually one
19:27:55  <planetmaker> look at makefile.config
19:28:02  <Ammler> one which will be generated by hg log
19:28:15  <planetmaker> well. Then figure out how to do that and make it part of the makefile.
19:28:24  <planetmaker> should be no issue.
19:28:37  <Ammler> well, doesn't need to be in the Makefile
19:28:44  <planetmaker> well... s/no issue/feasable/ :P
19:28:52  <planetmaker> Ammler, but makes sense.
19:29:01  <Ammler> that is just the reason, why I think about subdir for versions
19:29:07  <planetmaker> or make a script for now and I'll see :)
19:29:23  <Ammler> as you have more then just the zip per compile
19:29:34  <planetmaker> ?
19:29:57  <Ammler> the changelog is outside of the zip
19:30:13  <Ammler> it is for reading, if you should download the zip :-)
19:30:20  <Ammler> like openttd :-)
19:30:40  <andythenorth> back in a bit...have fun :)
19:30:58  <Ammler>
19:31:37  <Ammler> there is a changelog.txt made from the cf
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19:31:49  <Ammler> oh
19:32:15  <planetmaker> hg log > changelog.txt
19:32:21  <Ammler> yes
19:32:28  <Ammler> well, just the part since last compile
19:32:50  <planetmaker> true. :)
19:33:11  <Ammler> he, dunno, how it is in the is
19:33:27  <planetmaker> hg log -r<old>:tip > changelog.txt
19:34:15  <Ammler> yes, that is how I would do it.
19:34:35  <Ammler> so back to my question, subdir for it?
19:34:37  <planetmaker> hm, yes. That is the job of the compile farm, though, I think
19:34:57  <planetmaker> that's nothing the usual person needs.
19:35:07  <Ammler> I couls also just make changelog-rXX.txt
19:35:34  <Ammler> yep, it is just a indicator for people, if they should download the new nightly
19:36:05  <planetmaker> changelog-rXX sounds ok to me.
19:36:14  <Ammler> then without
19:36:31  <Ammler> (subdir, I mean :-P
19:37:01  <Ammler> the compile log is enough for the last build only?
19:37:42  <planetmaker> I would keep them as long as the build itself is available.
19:42:11  <Ammler> so log-rXX.txt :P
19:47:53  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 177: Added 737-100 to 7F @ (by Frank)
19:48:40  *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
19:54:25  <andythenorth> did something get resolved then?
19:54:29  <andythenorth> :0
20:47:57  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 178: Changes to 737 Co-ord file£ @ (by Frank)
20:50:42  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
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20:57:04  <Ammler> he, that is actually nice
20:57:26  <Ammler> you can just push the is2 to a trunk repo, it does upload without conflict
20:57:48  <Ammler> is2 is now officially fork of trunk :-)
20:59:12  <planetmaker> :)
21:00:17  <DJ_Nekkid> in other words
21:00:33  <DJ_Nekkid> in a couple of months is IS2 _in_ the nightlies? :p
21:00:44  <Ammler> no idea
21:00:52  <DJ_Nekkid> well ... most likely :)
21:01:04  <Ammler> I fear, not.
21:01:41  <Ammler> well, let us suprise ;-)
21:03:05  <Ammler> nice graph about merge:
21:03:08  <Webster> Title: OpenTTD / Infrastructure Sharing / changesets (at
21:03:24  <DJ_Nekkid> planetmaker: did u check out the tempplate.grf? :)
21:04:12  <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid: not yet. But I should :) Can you give me the link again, please?
21:04:32  <DJ_Nekkid> 2cc-set dir, and hg pull -u :)
21:04:49  <Ammler> oh :-(
21:04:52  <planetmaker> then I have it :)
21:04:57  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
21:05:06  <DJ_Nekkid> then copy to openttd dir
21:05:07  <Ammler> a grf in the repo?
21:05:21  <planetmaker> hm... indeed. Why not uploaded to the files section?
21:06:13  <Ammler> I downloaded it from there
21:06:14  <DJ_Nekkid> it is there as well ...
21:06:35  <DJ_Nekkid> just thought it were a good idea at the time:)
21:07:14  <planetmaker> not really as it's not needed (or helpful) in building the grf or programming it. Its sources might be, though
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21:08:02  <DJ_Nekkid> doh, didnt i add the sorce to it?
21:08:13  <planetmaker> dunno. I didn't check.
21:08:17  <DJ_Nekkid> i didnt...
21:08:22  <Ammler> but what does make the template special?
21:08:49  <Ammler> I see a nice train with front engine and back control cabine or what does it mean?
21:08:52  <DJ_Nekkid> it will work for 90% of the mus
21:09:01  <DJ_Nekkid> plus:
21:09:12  <DJ_Nekkid> mail capacity and gfx changes
21:09:12  <Ammler> you mean same nfo, just other sprites?
21:09:17  <DJ_Nekkid> yes :)
21:09:26  <DJ_Nekkid> and, ofcourse, edit about 10 lines...
21:09:41  <DJ_Nekkid> it's "frameworked" for precompiling
21:09:51  <Ammler> well, the lines, which need edit mgith be vars?
21:09:53  <planetmaker> that's cool. But indeed the nfo is enough then. But it's a very good start for that framework :)
21:09:57  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 211: tempplate to repo @ (by DJNekkid)
21:09:59  <planetmaker> Ammler: they ARE
21:10:24  <Ammler> already, sorry :P
21:10:27  <planetmaker> but there's no point to make the weight a var or the introduction date :)
21:10:39  <planetmaker> as they're individual and only used in that one place
21:10:59  <planetmaker> but ID is a var etc. Looks really clean code-wise :)
21:12:06  <Ammler> why not make the the individual things vars too?
21:12:16  <Ammler> and define those on the head?
21:13:07  <Ammler> so you have something like cat mus.header mus.template mus.sprites > mus.nfo
21:13:21  <Ammler> and mus.template has no changes
21:13:55  <DJ_Nekkid> individual things?
21:14:00  <planetmaker> uhm... ? you need to programme an example for that, I guess, Ammler
21:14:18  <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: where is that source DJ_Nekkid?
21:14:30  <Ammler> -1 hightlight
21:14:43  <DJ_Nekkid> the template souce itself is in the nfo/mus folder
21:15:00  <DJ_Nekkid> the sourse for the current .grf is in the sprites folder
21:15:13  <andythenorth> Looks useful.
21:15:27  <andythenorth> Definitely the sort of thing I was hoping to do for FIRS
21:17:26  <Ammler> hmm, I don't see vars there
21:17:30  <Ammler> what do I miss
21:17:32  <Ammler> ?
21:17:47  <DJ_Nekkid> look in the mus folder Ammler
21:17:53  <DJ_Nekkid> nfo/mus
21:18:02  <DJ_Nekkid> template.pnfo or something
21:18:03  <Ammler> yes, there is a template.nfo
21:18:23  <Ammler> but already filled with values
21:18:26  <Ammler> not variables
21:18:43  <DJ_Nekkid> look at the action 3 for example
21:18:50  <DJ_Nekkid> the "cannot attach" line
21:18:57  <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes, that I hope, too :)
21:18:57  <DJ_Nekkid> directly under ----- engine ----
21:19:18  <DJ_Nekkid> P-list text
21:19:23  <DJ_Nekkid> -1 * 0  02 00 4F 81 0C 00 FF 01   STR_<engine> 80 23 23   40 00
21:19:37  <DJ_Nekkid> the first line of them all
21:19:40  <DJ_Nekkid> -1 * 0  00 00 \b29 01 ID_ENGINE // ID
21:19:40  <Ammler> ok, I see
21:19:56  <DJ_Nekkid> how much more is actually practical?
21:20:06  <andythenorth> that would just need expanding to more vars
21:20:08  <Ammler> I thought about all :-)
21:20:17  <DJ_Nekkid> for example?
21:21:03  <DJ_Nekkid> one can ofcourse do stuff like load_pax_fast   load_pax_slow
21:21:19  <andythenorth> has anyone figured out if there is just one namespace for make?
21:21:40  <Ammler> then you have "cat default.vars  individual.vars action0.tmpl > action0.pnfo"
21:21:43  <planetmaker> andythenorth: what do you mean with namespace?
21:22:07  <planetmaker> you mean like all vars are global?
21:22:15  <andythenorth> I may be abusing the term, but yes, are all vars global?
21:22:18  <planetmaker> then: probably yes.
21:22:24  <andythenorth> or can they be localised, to a macro or something for example
21:22:26  <planetmaker> I haven't found differently
21:22:42  <andythenorth> we do similar things with page templates in web cms's for example
21:22:44  <planetmaker> but you can use sub-makefiles for sub dirs
21:22:59  <Ammler> andythenorth: you could use usual bash
21:23:07  <Ammler> with sed and awk
21:23:13  <andythenorth> can make run scripts, e.g. python files or similar?
21:23:18  <planetmaker> but... either that ^or the point is to be general that it applies to the rules
21:23:45  <planetmaker> andythenorth: it could. But then it's not a universal makefile anymore
21:23:52  <andythenorth> nope, agreed
21:23:54  <andythenorth> just wondering
21:23:55  <planetmaker> I'd like to avoide that
21:23:59  <Ammler> python shouldn't be a problem either
21:24:04  <Ammler> as hg is python already
21:24:10  <planetmaker> hg requires it, yes. But...
21:24:48  <Ammler> :-)
21:25:02  <andythenorth> I am halfway to thinking that I could generate config or pnfo files for FIRS from the existing cms for my site (which is object orientated).
21:25:14  <andythenorth> which would be a bit insane, but only slightly
21:25:26  *** FooBar_ has quit IRC
21:25:57  <andythenorth> who upset FooBar_ :D
21:25:59  <andythenorth> ?
21:26:07  <Ammler> is the cms something selfmade?
21:26:40  <andythenorth> no, it's Zope.  Python based.  Reason I learnt python in fact.  But the specific pages for FIRS I hacked together
21:27:23  <andythenorth> I already have industry ID, cargos, dates etc
21:27:35  <andythenorth> as properties on objects
21:27:39  <andythenorth> with a templating system...
21:28:06  <Ammler> well, it would just be nice, if you could do something, that changes are possible without you.
21:28:53  <andythenorth> Yep, that is a point well made]
21:29:04  <DJ_Nekkid> i suspect templates for FIRS is worse then for trains :=)
21:29:12  <Ammler> including the whole zope framework to the project mgiht be an idea ;-)
21:29:23  <planetmaker> from make manual:
21:29:23  <andythenorth> burrrr don't do that :)
21:29:27  <planetmaker> The configure script and the Makefile rules for building and installation should not use any utilities directly except these:
21:29:29  <planetmaker>      cat cmp cp diff echo egrep expr false grep install-info
21:29:30  <planetmaker>      ln ls mkdir mv pwd rm rmdir sed sleep sort tar test touch true
21:29:45  <DJ_Nekkid> a question;
21:30:04  <DJ_Nekkid> if i were to make a "inject me" file, how? :)
21:30:09  <planetmaker> and      ar bison cc flex install ld ldconfig lex
21:30:11  <planetmaker>      make makeinfo ranlib texi2dvi yacc
21:30:11  <DJ_Nekkid> i mean, what is the format of it?
21:30:21  <Ammler> were is that list from?
21:30:24  <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid: depends. But the same
21:30:43  <DJ_Nekkid> lets say i make a "mus.thisiswhereshitiskept"
21:30:44  <planetmaker> I do basically do what you did previously with copy /y > file
21:30:57  <planetmaker> in the correct order
21:31:23  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - cms_example.png @ (by andythenorth)
21:31:39  <DJ_Nekkid> lets say i want COST_TEMP to be \b100
21:31:42  <andythenorth> right bedtime, here's a screenie of the tt-foundry cms to leave you with ;)
21:31:42  <andythenorth>
21:32:17  <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid: look at the Makefile
21:32:40  <andythenorth> can 'someone' let me know where you end up with this description?  I have to go!
21:32:41  <planetmaker> in the section $(NFO_FILENAME) : $(CPNFO_FILENAME)
21:32:47  <andythenorth> bye
21:32:53  <planetmaker> bye andythenorth :)
21:33:07  <planetmaker> ping me during day. At work I'll have logs
21:33:23  <DJ_Nekkid> this looks like NFO did to me a year and a half ago
21:33:30  <planetmaker> 	@sed -e "s/{{GRF_TITLE}}/$(GRF_TITLE)/" \
21:33:32  <planetmaker> 		-e "s/{{GRF_ID}}/$(GRF_ID)/" \
21:33:34  <planetmaker> 		$(CPNFO_FILENAME) > $(NFO_FILENAME)
21:33:47  <planetmaker> I use (currently) sed to replace a string
21:33:55  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
21:34:00  <Ammler> webster does log too
21:34:04  <planetmaker> I search for {{GRF_TITLE}}
21:34:20  <planetmaker> and replace it by the variable $(GRF_TITLE)
21:34:30  <planetmaker> the latter is defined previously in Makefile.local
21:34:40  <DJ_Nekkid> *sigh*
21:34:42  <DJ_Nekkid> hehe
21:35:13  <planetmaker> I do that with the file stored in $(CPNFO_FILENAME) and put the result in $(NFO_FILENAME)
21:35:21  <planetmaker> e.g
21:35:55  <planetmaker> sed -e "s/{{GRF_TITLE}}/Mein toller Titel/ mynew.cpnfo > mynew.nfo
21:35:59  <planetmaker> would do the trick
21:36:07  <planetmaker> But I put all that in variables
21:36:24  <DJ_Nekkid> im still confised
21:36:32  <planetmaker> sed -e "s/{{GRF_TITLE}}/Mein toller Titel/ inputfile > outputfile
21:36:34  <DJ_Nekkid> one step at the time please!
21:36:36  <DJ_Nekkid> hehe
21:36:37  <Ammler>
21:36:38  <Webster> Title: Index of /~kenji/ottdcoop/devzonelogs (at
21:36:46  <DJ_Nekkid> first: how do i define something?
21:36:59  <planetmaker> sed -e "s/text-to-be-replaced/replacement-text/" inputfile > outputfile
21:37:18  <planetmaker> Well... so far we don't use the pre-processor
21:37:39  <DJ_Nekkid> i.e:
21:37:48  <planetmaker> If we want to do that excessively... we need some nicer means than applied now
21:38:18  <DJ_Nekkid> sed -e "s/COST_TEMP/\b100" tempplate.pnfo tempplate.nfo ?
21:38:42  <DJ_Nekkid> but ...
21:38:54  <Ammler> @services op
21:38:54  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Webster
21:38:56  <DJ_Nekkid> what i see is something like this:
21:39:08  <Ammler> @topic add Logs:
21:39:08  *** Webster changes topic to "Talk about things hosted and developed on | Logs:"
21:39:13  <planetmaker> There's one problem, DJ_Nekkid
21:39:28  <planetmaker> \ is a "special" character and sed fails on it in this simple form
21:39:32  <DJ_Nekkid>
21:39:47  <planetmaker> I tried today briefly but have so far no solution
21:40:08  <DJ_Nekkid> and then some kind of cool software replace all RCOST_TRAIN1 with \b100
21:40:22  <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid: that's what I want to have, too. Yes
21:40:35  <planetmaker> It's feasable. In principle
21:40:46  <DJ_Nekkid> \bRCOST_TRAIN1 ?
21:40:48  <planetmaker> But requires still quite a bit of work on the build system
21:41:10  <planetmaker> that's ugly ;9
21:41:12  <planetmaker> ;)
21:41:20  <Ammler> planetmaker: \
21:41:25  <DJ_Nekkid> better then not working :)
21:41:28  <planetmaker> Ammler: no
21:41:30  <planetmaker> :(
21:41:32  <Ammler> just escpace the escpace char :-)
21:41:40  <planetmaker> I tried it. Doesn't work
21:41:46  <Ammler> excape*
21:41:50  <Ammler> sjdfseajflaskjf
21:41:57  <DJ_Nekkid> we _can_ use hex tho..
21:42:08  <Ammler> I fail in typing, should go to bed...
21:42:09  <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid: that's not a solution either IMO :)
21:42:25  <Ammler> no hex please
21:42:27  <planetmaker> each input for numbers should be acepted.
21:42:29  <DJ_Nekkid> i must say i agree
21:43:14  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 179: Added new liveries in 7F @ (by Frank)
21:43:14  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 180: Fix 237 Finished most of 737-100 nfo, Purch and Run Costs remain @ (by Frank)
21:43:14  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #237 (Closed): B737-100 NFO @ (by Frank)
21:43:46  <Ammler> Frankr: you can't fix a feature ;-)
21:43:53  <Ammler> you fix bugs :P
21:44:36  <planetmaker> hr hr
21:49:16  <DJ_Nekkid> so...
21:52:37  <Ammler> hmm, does pikka have such a ugly tut?
21:53:09  <Ammler> benny is making same failure as djn, encoding a nfo, lol.
21:55:04  <Frankr> sorry ammker
21:55:05  <Frankr> lol
21:55:11  <Frankr> ammler*
21:55:35  <Ammler> just use Feature #XX :-)
21:55:43  <DJ_Nekkid> what failure did i make? :)
21:55:49  <DJ_Nekkid> i mean, witch one?
21:55:56  <Ammler> grfcodec -e *.nfo
21:56:11  <Ammler> I guess, was does still that ;-)
21:56:16  <Frankr> kk
21:58:50  <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: now, I kow why you use that, pikka has that in his tut.
21:59:02  <DJ_Nekkid> what do i use?
21:59:04  <Ammler> kinda :-o
21:59:11  <Ammler> [23:56] <Ammler> grfcodec -e *.nfo
21:59:17  <DJ_Nekkid> never used that in my life!
21:59:22  <DJ_Nekkid> i swear!
21:59:34  <Ammler> hehe, we have history in the source, you know :P
21:59:43  <DJ_Nekkid> yes i do
21:59:48  <DJ_Nekkid> and i know, i've never done that!
22:00:09  <Ammler> offline.bat#L27
22:00:26  <Ammler> grfcodec.exe -c -e -p 2
22:00:36  <DJ_Nekkid> no *.nfo there!
22:00:45  <Ammler> ah
22:00:52  <Ammler> but soemthing.nfo
22:00:57  <Ammler> instead of something.grf
22:01:09  <DJ_Nekkid> blame foobar!
22:01:13  <Ammler> no
22:01:16  <DJ_Nekkid> yes!
22:01:22  <Ammler> pikka does the same ugly thing
22:01:28  <DJ_Nekkid> it is ecensially his bat-file
22:01:35  <Ammler> ok
22:01:45  <Ammler> well, the makefile doesn't that anymore.
22:02:35  <DJ_Nekkid> the attachment is gone tho... if not could i prove it!
22:02:42  <DJ_Nekkid> hey, maby i still can
22:02:48  <DJ_Nekkid> almostish
22:03:29  <Ammler> but very late fixed:
22:03:46  <DJ_Nekkid> what is wrong with that btw?
22:04:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
22:04:08  <Brot6> firs: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
22:04:13  <Brot6> heqs: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
22:04:38  <Ammler>
22:04:40  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - DJ Nekkids & Bennythen00b's NFO lessons (at
22:05:05  <Ammler> I guess, it forces you to use such ugly extensions like nfo.nfo
22:05:32  <Ammler> and it is against the usage of grfcodec
22:05:37  <Ammler> just run grfcodec --help
22:07:04  <DJ_Nekkid> hmm
22:07:20  <DJ_Nekkid> i still find it wierd ...
22:07:24  <DJ_Nekkid> i write stuff in nfo
22:07:33  <Ammler> yes it is, it was always
22:07:39  <DJ_Nekkid> when its "codeced" it turn out to .grf
22:07:51  <Ammler> I never understood your batch files
22:08:02  <DJ_Nekkid> 1. nforenum
22:08:08  <DJ_Nekkid> 2. grfcodec
22:08:14  <DJ_Nekkid> 3. copy to ottd-dir
22:08:15  <DJ_Nekkid> :)
22:08:24  <Ammler> but you encode a grf not a nfo
22:08:34  <Ammler> it is like if you make a zip
22:08:43  <Ammler> zip *.zip <path>
22:09:10  <Ammler> renum *.nfo
22:09:17  <Ammler> grfcodec *.grf
22:09:31  <DJ_Nekkid> but i dont have a grf yet
22:09:35  <DJ_Nekkid> hehe
22:09:35  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 181: Changed all Airbus nfo's nvar Callback @ (by Frank)
22:09:37  <Ammler> hehe
22:10:01  <Ammler> grfcodec does know that and create a empty "container" then
22:10:02  <DJ_Nekkid> then it should be ... grfcodec -<stuff> file.grf file.nfo (or vica verca)
22:10:12  <Ammler> called *.new, afaik
22:10:37  <DJ_Nekkid> .new is because there are already a .grf
22:10:42  <DJ_Nekkid> as i've understood it
22:11:30  <DJ_Nekkid> i guess it have become an "industry standard" ...
22:11:37  <DJ_Nekkid> like driveing 15kmh over the speedlimit is
22:11:54  <DJ_Nekkid> not really allowed, but everyone, including the cops does it
22:13:14  <Ammler> well, I don't
22:13:23  <Ammler> and everyone else using Makefile doesn't
22:13:26  <Ammler> MB doesn't
22:13:29  <DJ_Nekkid> "old man with hat" :p
22:13:45  <Ammler> DS doesn't :P
22:13:46  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 182: Changed all ATR nfo's nvar Callback @ (by Frank)
22:13:46  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #245: Boeing 737-100 pcx files @ (by Frank)
22:13:55  <Ammler> now 2cc doesn't :P
22:14:04  <DJ_Nekkid> good for us
22:14:07  <Ammler> opengfx doesn't :P
22:14:30  <Ammler> no, it is seriously wrong
22:14:31  <DJ_Nekkid> guess foobar have learned a thing or two since that batfile got into my hands
22:14:48  <Ammler> benny wouldn't have those issues, if he would use it right
22:15:49  <Ammler> -f isn't even documented
22:16:18  <Ammler> what does that?
22:16:27  <DJ_Nekkid> force something?
22:16:30  <DJ_Nekkid> i dunno tbh
22:16:35  <Ammler> GRFCODEC -e [<Options>] <GRF-File> [<Directory>]
22:16:56  <Ammler> directory is "your stuff" ;-)
22:17:37  <DJ_Nekkid> hmm
22:17:38  <DJ_Nekkid> i see
22:17:51  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 183: Updated WAS MS DOS Batch File @ (by Frank)
22:18:50  <DJ_Nekkid> anyway, nn :)
22:21:14  <Ammler> yeah, me should too
22:21:17  <Ammler> long time ago
22:21:22  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 184: Fixed #245 - Added 7 737-100 pcx files @ (by Beardie27)
22:21:22  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #245 (Closed): Boeing 737-100 pcx files @ (by Beardie27)
22:21:24  <Ammler> good night DJN
22:22:27  <Ammler> hmm :P
22:23:01  <Frankr> cya DJ
22:23:53  <Ammler> ah, this time, it was beardie ;-)
22:25:08  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 185: Fixed 737-100 nfo pcx file directories @ (by Beardie27)
22:27:41  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 186: Corrected Typo in WAS Batch @ (by Frank)
22:28:48  <Frankr> ammler
22:29:03  <Ammler> Frankr: ?
22:29:04  <Frankr> is it close thn for features?
22:29:19  <Frankr> hg commit -m "close 245"
22:29:31  <Ammler> or Feature
22:29:37  <Frankr> ok
22:29:40  <Ammler> or doesn't that close?
22:29:48  <Frankr> don't know
22:31:47  <Ammler>
22:32:36  <Ammler> it should also possible something like Feature #xx: blabla (close)
22:44:49  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - preprocessor.diff @ (by planetmaker)
23:31:52  <Frankr> i'm off cya ammler
23:33:37  *** Frankr has quit IRC
23:40:08  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #246: Boeing 737-200 Nfo @ (by Frank)
23:43:10  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #247: Boeing 737-300 Nfo @ (by Frank)
23:43:10  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Bug #248: Boeing 737-300F Nfo @ (by Frank)
23:43:10  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #249: Boeing 737-400 Nfo @ (by Frank)
23:43:10  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #250: Boeing 737-500 Nfo @ (by Frank)
23:43:12  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #251: Boeing 737-600 Nfo @ (by Frank)
23:45:23  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #252: Boeing 737-700 Nfo @ (by Frank)
23:48:11  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #253: Boeing 737-800 Nfo @ (by Frank)
23:48:11  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #254: Boeing 737-900 Nfo @ (by Frank)

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