Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 21st June 2009:
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01:33:22  <Brot6> Backup done! (Usage: 60M)
01:33:22  <Brot6> Inside, I'm already SOBBING!
02:04:04  <Brot6> firs: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
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09:17:42  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 62: Change: firs.pnfo now is a plain text source file li... @ (by planetmaker)
09:20:32  <andythenorth> Morning
09:20:38  <planetmaker> moin :)
09:21:32  <andythenorth> Do I (a) draw bulldozers (b) draw industries (c) write some industry code (d) learn more about make (e) none of the above?  I have about one hour today for this...
09:21:40  <andythenorth> Place your votes...
09:23:07  <planetmaker> I vote for b or c
09:23:27  <planetmaker> preferrably actually b
09:23:44  <planetmaker> Because I know I cannot do that satisfactorily. With a bit of effort, I might learn c ;)
09:24:05  <planetmaker> make is evil.
09:24:27  <andythenorth> Well I've been avoiding drawing the farms.  Maybe I'll try that
09:24:36  <planetmaker> I had a nice sequence how to get the file list from the main file - and it failed on windows :S
09:25:10  <planetmaker> Thus commit #62 now. All files defined plain text and I create the main file with #include myself within makefile
09:33:06  <Ammler> planetmaker: awk
09:33:17  <planetmaker> Ammler: not needed IMO
09:33:26  <planetmaker> A plain text source list file is fine
09:33:49  <planetmaker> Actually I'm just working on extending it such that the dependent pcx files can be put in there, too
09:34:08  <planetmaker> first a hack, and now preferred ;)
09:34:20  <Ammler> hmm, aren't those already in the nfo?
09:34:24  <planetmaker> btw, OpenTTD has also such file :)
09:34:57  <Ammler> source.lst
09:35:08  <planetmaker> Ammler: they are... you want to grep the whole nfo for the pcx and extract that?
09:35:50  <planetmaker> might be possible, yes...
09:36:00  <Ammler> no, but how else?
09:36:24  <Ammler> else you have redundancy, and you know, how "ugly" that is :P
09:36:31  <planetmaker> :P
09:36:59  <planetmaker> Well. I'll add the possibility for now to specify them. So far they're no dependency at all. So it's still an improvement.
09:37:13  <planetmaker> which can be further improved :)
09:38:52  <planetmaker> anyway, I found out that sed is not sed. It depends upon which sed...
09:39:09  <planetmaker> and within makefiles things work differently again, sometimes... :S
09:39:18  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 63: Feature: allow to specify the required pcx files wit... @ (by planetmaker)
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09:42:27  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 64: Change: added fences to default_blocks.psd. @ (by andythenorth)
09:47:44  <Ammler> planetmaker: did you try what happens, if the grfcodec doesn't find a pcx?
09:48:08  <planetmaker> no. But grfcodec will fail, thus make fails
09:48:33  <planetmaker> grfcodec is no optional part of it, it's a pre-requisite of the grf.
09:48:34  <Ammler> hmm, how you know, it fails, if you didn't try? :-o
09:48:46  <planetmaker> well... I did some time ago.
09:49:00  <planetmaker> I know what happens, if grfcodec fails in general
09:49:03  <Ammler> but then you have your check :-)
09:49:18  <planetmaker> yes, kind of :)
09:51:16  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 65: Change: add all phony targets explicitly as phony ta... @ (by planetmaker)
09:56:00  <Ammler> he, what is phony?
09:59:40  <planetmaker> targets which don't make a file, but do something else. Like make clean or so
10:00:08  <planetmaker> e.g. if you created a file called 'test', then called make test, make would say 'nothing to do'
10:00:22  <planetmaker> as it considers an existing file without rule up to date
10:00:32  <planetmaker> phony tells make that it always has to do something
10:00:43  <planetmaker> as it's not a file
10:04:03  <Brot6> firs: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
10:04:07  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 66: Doc: add the new gcc parameters to the sample local ... @ (by planetmaker)
10:07:35  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 67: Change: added fenced yards with cows to dairy_farm.psd @ (by andythenorth)
10:07:35  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 68: Merge @ (by andythenorth)
10:07:42  <planetmaker> :P
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11:01:17  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 69: Change: check for an existing install dir before try... @ (by planetmaker)
11:09:05  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Support #255: using pre-processor to allow using ID_<whatever> in... @ (by planetmaker)
11:41:36  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #94: Sprites 912:989 (78) - African manager faces @ (by foobar)
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12:43:36  <planetmaker> <-- if anyone can give me an idea why the OS detection like that doesn't work or has an idea how it could work, I'd appreciate input :)
12:44:06  <planetmaker> I just spent 1.5 hours on ... nothing :S
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12:55:00  <Ammler> planetmaker: where is the detection, you just read the env var ;-)
12:55:19  <planetmaker> Ammler: it's a conditional execution
12:55:24  <Ammler> which works at least here.
12:55:25  <planetmaker> if (...)
12:59:37  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 70: Change: added farmhouse tile to dairy_farm.psd @ (by andythenorth)
13:01:34  <andythenorth> Did some drawing ;)
13:03:00  <planetmaker> :)
13:03:30  <planetmaker> let's pull and look :)
13:06:59  <planetmaker> [15:04]	<planetmaker>	andythenorth: the meadows are very small, if only half a tile...
13:07:01  <planetmaker> [15:05]	<planetmaker>	especially for cows that seems like caged ;)
13:07:04  <planetmaker> ^wrong channel
13:09:57  <andythenorth> planetmaker: ^ I'm talking about it in #openttd anyway.  Excuse to mention arbitrary animated ground tiles :P
13:10:11  <planetmaker> :P I noticed ;)
13:10:15  <andythenorth> Not that it will make any bloody difference to getting it coded :D
13:10:36  <planetmaker> :)
13:10:47  <planetmaker> anyway, I think I should get some fresh air :)
13:11:57  <andythenorth>
13:11:58  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - NFO: Industry plants arbitrary custom tiles (at
13:12:43  <Ammler> planetmaker: I assume, those things will be ususally made by configure :-)
14:04:03  <Brot6> firs: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
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15:00:29  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 12420: (svn r16613) -Fix [NewGRF]: some of the var action 2 80+... @ (by yexo)
15:00:29  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 12421: (svn r16614) -Codechange: Make the airport min/max avail... @ (by yexo)
15:00:29  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 12422: (svn r16615) -Fix (r16613): 0x10 != 2 @ (by yexo)
15:00:31  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 12423: [IS] Merge: trunk up to r16615 @ (by Hirundo)
16:18:02  <Brot6> OpenGFX: nightly compile not needed. (r72)
16:59:02  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 212: Concorde Acceleration set to 03 @ (by Frank)
17:02:30  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 71: Feature: If no installdir is defined assume a defaul... @ (by planetmaker)
17:09:51  <Ammler> planetmaker: still sh?
17:10:45  <planetmaker> hm? what do you mean?
17:11:02  <Ammler> instead of bash
17:11:13  <Ammler> (shell in your Makefile)
17:11:22  <planetmaker> I hope so. It was what alberth and petern reccomended to use.
17:11:33  <planetmaker> and Rubi didn't contradict :)
17:11:51  <Ammler> I would use bash as you don't have someone using something else.
17:11:53  <planetmaker> uname -s should work in any shell, also afaik
17:12:08  <planetmaker> I wouldn't limit it, if not necessary
17:12:29  <Ammler> well, you had already a bug with it.
17:13:06  <planetmaker> yes, I know. But so what?
17:13:18  <Ammler> you should use bash until someone ask for support another shell
17:13:21  <planetmaker> yes, I cannot support it. But if it works?
17:14:09  <Ammler> It didn't :P
17:14:30  <planetmaker> did you try current version?
17:14:41  <Ammler> no, I use bash
17:15:07  <Ammler> did you try it?
17:16:50  <planetmaker> no
17:16:57  <Ammler> nobody would complain about using bash, so why not make it easy and just use it?
17:19:06  <planetmaker> what's difficult about it now as is?
17:19:25  <planetmaker> that people can come and complain about it not working in korn shell?
17:19:55  <planetmaker> maybe they do. Maybe they then even supply a proper patch as Rubidium did for dash :)
17:20:05  <planetmaker> if not - who cares?
17:20:17  <Ammler> well, it is imo unneeded, but when you like ot support it...
17:22:27  <Ammler> I wouldn't be able to test dash
17:24:31  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 213: Airbus Accelerations done @ (by Frank)
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17:28:09  <planetmaker> I'm not able to support it really either. But I'd like to keep that until it breaks.
17:28:13  <planetmaker> not vice versa :)
17:32:50  <Ammler> ah, that is what I try to tell the whole time, it did already.
17:33:25  <planetmaker> And it was fixed
17:33:31  <planetmaker> so?
17:34:04  <planetmaker> I kinda don't understand the argument: "it broke, it was fixed, thus we skip to support it"
17:34:10  <Ammler> well, how do you know, it works now?
17:34:23  <planetmaker> I have sufficient trust in Rubidium
17:34:50  <planetmaker> how do you think it works with e.g. fixes for Mac on OpenTTD?
17:35:07  <Ammler> well, Rubi doesn't use dash, either.
17:35:19  <Ammler> he just tested it once with dash.
17:35:41  <Ammler> well, nvm.
17:35:57  <Ammler> planetmaker: that is completely different
17:36:15  <Ammler> and OpenTTD does compile Mac builds, btw.
17:36:33  <planetmaker> :) and this makefile runs on dash until proven otherwise :)
17:37:07  <Ammler> how do you prove that, that is my question since I asked "still sh" :P
17:40:25  <Ammler> he, is it even needed?
17:41:32  <planetmaker> *sigh*
17:41:53  <planetmaker> I ask the otherway around: why the hell shall I say it runs only on bash?
17:42:11  <planetmaker> I also don't say it only runs on OpenSuSE 11.0
17:42:15  <planetmaker> same thing, different colour
17:42:39  <Ammler> no
17:42:44  <Ammler> you wouldn't say that
17:43:02  <Ammler> you don't use the variable anyway, do you?
17:43:50  <Ammler> if I comment that out, make works here.
17:44:19  <Ammler> you define "SHELL", but you use "shell"
17:44:22  <planetmaker> yes. as /bin/sh is an implicit assumption
17:44:39  <planetmaker> he. That might be a bug ;)
17:45:35  <Ammler> don't see a define for SHELL in openttd either.
17:46:18  <Ammler> and you could move it to config, so somone could change it to dash, if you so much like ot support it.
17:48:59  <planetmaker> I cannot. It has to be defined before I use it.
17:49:20  <Ammler> it doesn't need
17:49:36  <Ammler> I remvoed that row and Makefile still works
17:50:00  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 72: Feature: add the version information automatically t... @ (by planetmaker)
17:50:00  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 73: Fix: shell != SHELL - mind your cases (Ammler) @ (by planetmaker)
17:50:44  <Ammler> ah, I didn't report that, you know :P
17:50:51  <planetmaker> you did :P
17:50:58  <Ammler> that was my esplaination for useless SHELL defines
17:51:19  <planetmaker> and yes, it's right. Case matters or may matter. Having it differently is no good thing
17:51:34  <planetmaker> I know it for other variables and stumbled over it quite a few times
17:51:56  <Ammler> well
17:52:01  <Ammler> you fixed it the wrong way
17:52:17  <Ammler> my patch was removing :P
17:52:37  <planetmaker> I won't do that
17:52:42  <planetmaker> read the manual
17:52:45  <planetmaker> of make
17:52:55  <Ammler> why doesn't openttd do it?
17:54:02  <Ammler> making useless things without knowing why, is bad, sorry.
17:54:41  <planetmaker> they have out-sourced shell access to configure presumably
17:55:01  <planetmaker> Ammler: you're right now annoying. Please read the make manual
17:55:29  <planetmaker> Unless you show me that it's detrimental to follow the manual, don't tell me that it's wrong
17:55:32  <Ammler> he
17:55:41  <Ammler> linky
17:55:51  <planetmaker> google: make
17:55:57  <Ammler> oh, well
17:56:14  <planetmaker> one of the 1st three links is gnu make manual
18:00:44  <planetmaker> <-- there. It's not required, but it makes obvious what is used anyway
18:00:45  <Webster> Title: GNU `make' (at
18:01:04  <planetmaker> and in order to be reminded of what is done, I like to keep it that way
18:04:03  <Brot6> firs: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
18:04:09  <Brot6> is2: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
18:04:45  <Ammler> planetmaker: but then "SHELL" (upcase is still right)
18:05:08  <planetmaker> ?
18:05:21  <Ammler> > echo $SHELL
18:05:23  <Ammler> /bin/bash
18:05:38  <Ammler> it should "overwrite" the env variable, shouldn't?
18:06:18  <Ammler> and shell is a make command which uses the SHELL variable
18:07:24  <planetmaker> not if I explicitly tell it to use shell ;)
18:08:09  <planetmaker> but yes, it should overwrite the var at best
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18:09:08  *** Webster sets mode: +o planetmaker
18:09:12  <planetmaker> hmpf
18:09:20  <planetmaker> Ctrl+W on wrong window :S
18:11:08  <Ammler> why does Webster op you?
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18:11:41  <planetmaker> :)
18:11:45  <planetmaker> not only me as it seems
18:16:14  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 74: Fix: use only uppercase for variable names. Do that ... @ (by planetmaker)
18:16:14  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 75: Fix (r74): save all files before committing @ (by planetmaker)
18:19:15  <Ammler> @deop
18:19:15  *** Webster sets mode: -o Ammler
18:38:27  <Frankr> Is there any1 here?
18:38:38  <Ammler> no
18:39:04  <Frankr> ammler do u understand the retirement property in Action 0
18:40:20  <Ammler> when the vehicle will retire?
18:41:31  <Frankr> it's to do with the vehicle retiring earlier by so many yrs before phase 2
18:41:49  <Frankr> ours is set to 0A by DJNekkid
18:42:01  <Ammler> do you understand the 3 phases?
18:42:35  <Frankr> i think thy are to do with the % of reliability
18:42:48  <Frankr> not sure tho
18:43:10  <Ammler> how is the vehicle life set?
18:44:04  <Frankr> Action 0, 03 is vehicle life thn so many yrs
18:44:05  <Ammler> you could remove the vehilce from the list earlier then it goes down with reability
18:45:29  <Frankr> so is ours currently set to 10 yrs and therefore conflicting with my model age of 6yrs
18:45:39  <Ammler> and how many years is it set for the vehicle with 0a?
18:45:47  <Frankr> would that be the problem?
18:46:05  <Frankr> 0A is the Hex for 10yrs i think
18:46:08  <Ammler> it would retire before becomming phase 2 :-)
18:46:40  <Ammler> 1	7 to 38 months	increases from 48-73% to 75-100%
18:46:42  <Ammler> 2	prop. 04 less 8 years	stays constant at peak, 75-100%
18:46:43  <Ammler> 3	10 to 20.5 years	decreases from peak to 25-50%
18:47:23  <Frankr> so it is the conflict thn
18:48:16  <Ammler> might be, not sure
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18:48:48  <Ammler> @op
18:48:48  *** Webster sets mode: +o Ammler
18:49:50  <Frankr> i'll try removing retire vehicle and see wat happens, thx for the help ammler
18:49:56  <Ammler> @deop
18:49:56  *** Webster sets mode: -o Ammler
18:50:17  <Ammler> Frankr: yw, I just intepreted the wiki ;-)
18:50:58  <Frankr> yh well i'm a bit new to this codin thing only been doin it a week now
18:51:08  <Frankr> don't always quite understand the wiki
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18:51:29  <Frankr> ty
18:53:16  <Ammler> if you use early retire, you should set a higher phase 2time span
18:53:52  <Ammler> the setting is to have better reability for vehicles on the selling list.
18:54:15  <Ammler> iiur
18:54:28  <Frankr> ok how would i be able to set that?#
18:57:00  <Ammler> you mean to remove it?
18:57:09  <Ammler> as you said, it is already set...
18:57:22  <Ammler> just remove the properity and decrase the counter
18:57:52  <Frankr> ok
18:58:58  <Frankr> thnx i'm learnin just a lot of info to know
19:00:13  <Ammler> you could also just rise the ability time (phase 2)
19:00:37  <Ammler> so the plane would be available for long in a stable reability
19:01:10  <Frankr> wat action is that?
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19:16:42  <Frankr> i'll be away for bout an hour gone to watch top gear
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19:36:07  <Ammler> Frankr: still action 0
19:36:27  <Ammler> prop4
20:46:43  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 76: Change: tidied up redundant layer from dairy_farm.psd @ (by andythenorth)
20:46:43  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 77: Change: added arable_farm.psd and started graphics f... @ (by andythenorth)
20:55:36  <planetmaker> <-- he. That nasty thing was triggered by worldairlineset around r50
20:55:38  <Webster> Title: Issue 1699: MacOS-X (10.4.11): IOError invalid mode "wb" - Mercurial issue tracker (at
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22:04:03  <Brot6> firs: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
23:19:21  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Bug #271: Sort Plane Costs @ (by Frank)
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23:52:00  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 214: Load of Rubbish, 737-100 and -300F @ (by Frank)

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