Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 6th July 2009:
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01:33:36  <Brot6> Backup done! (Usage: 69M)
01:33:36  <Brot6> Being a BALD HERO is almost as FESTIVE as a TATTOOED KNOCKWURST.
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08:02:57  <planetmaker> <-- Ammler, that might be of interest for the compile farm in order to check for releases.
08:02:59  <Webster> Title: NearestExtension - Mercurial (at
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08:57:37  <Ammler> planetmaker: did you install it?
08:57:50  <Ammler> could you test, if it works after hg up null
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09:10:30  <FooBar_> Ammler: x or y position can't be null. It can be zero though. ;)
09:10:59  <Ammler> ok :-P
09:11:08  <Ammler> well, that is the screen for.
09:12:19  <Ammler> FooBar_: fixed ;-)
09:13:09  <FooBar_> I didn't want to complain about it in the topic, but couldn't resist letting you know anyways :P
09:13:50  <Ammler> yeah, I rather like to know my issues, I know, I make many of them.
09:14:38  <FooBar_> lol :)
09:16:31  <Ammler> German null is 0 :-)
09:20:08  <FooBar_> understandable mix-up... What's the English "null" in German?
09:20:30  <FooBar_> Don't tell me it's the same, but pronounced differently...
09:20:35  <Ammler> hmm, "nichts"?
09:20:55  <Ammler> I guess, german hasn't something for the null
09:21:22  <Ammler> but I am not native German, you know ;-)
09:21:23  <FooBar_> It appears it has: Nullwert
09:21:44  <Ammler> well, we don't use that
09:21:59  <FooBar_> German wikipedia uses it...
09:22:22  <Ammler> yes, "We" != Germany :-)
09:23:31  <FooBar_> true, but a language isn't necessarily about a country
09:23:34  <Ammler> what is Dutch null?
09:23:46  <FooBar_> just null
09:23:50  <FooBar_> and zero is nul
09:23:50  <Ammler> mäh
09:24:13  <Ammler> poor Dutch, no own null :P
09:25:19  <FooBar_> We have 'nullwaarde' as well, but since 'null' by itself isn't confusing...
09:27:27  <FooBar_> what's your native language? I thought it was German. Possibly with a bit of a Swiss accent, but I suppose the words are the same...
09:28:35  <yorick> it's nul :) not null
09:29:23  <yorick> poor German, no null :p
09:29:45  <yorick>
09:29:46  <Webster> Title: 0 – Wikipedia (at
09:30:31  <FooBar_> yorick: we was talking about null, not 0... ;)
09:30:33  <Webster> Title: Null - Wikipedia (at
09:30:46  <yorick> oh
09:31:02  <yorick> most of that stuff is in english
09:31:24  <FooBar_> and that the German 0 is written as null, and the english null is written as NULL, which seemed a bit confusing to me :P
09:31:38  <FooBar_> At least it confused ammler... :)
09:31:48  <Ammler> hmm
09:32:08  <FooBar_> not?
09:32:09  <Ammler> not sure, if English null is NULL only.
09:32:19  <yorick>
09:32:20  <Webster> Title: Null (computer programming) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
09:33:50  <FooBar_> "In mathematics, the word null (from German null, which is from Latin nullus, both meaning "zero", or "none")."
09:34:01  <FooBar_> that's a different use for the English null...
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10:10:23  <FooBar_> damn, that sand pit is a lot of tiles!
10:11:03  <FooBar_> and a lot of sprites!
10:22:20  <andythenorth_> :|
10:22:35  <andythenorth_> One big sprite for the pit?
10:25:28  <FooBar_> too late...
10:26:01  <FooBar_> I already have 24 sprites for the pit sitting here now...
10:26:49  <FooBar_> One advantage: one can do smaller (or larger) versions of the pit as well
10:33:33  <andythenorth_> you might find the sprites don't match up in that case :(
10:33:39  <andythenorth_> I added some variatiosn
10:34:01  <andythenorth_> The processing plant on the other hand has lots of potential layouts :)
10:41:25  <Ammler> yeah, do you guys also work with RGB and only convert to index palette for the final pcx?
10:42:12  <Ammler> and just saw, was uses dos palette, why do "we" uise windows?
10:46:38  <Ammler> oh, and andythenorth_, ever thought about making 32bpp sprites?
10:46:54  <Ammler> doesn't need to be the extra zoom level thing
10:47:17  <planetmaker> I think a win palette can be loss-less converted to dos but not vice versa.
10:47:49  <Ammler> pm,yes
10:48:01  <Ammler> well, you don't need to convert anymore
10:48:10  <Ammler> you can load both types
10:48:26  <andythenorth_> I draw straight from the TTD palette .aco file which I have as a swatch in photoshop.
10:49:13  <planetmaker> Ammler, true. Which reminds me: I need to create a ticket for the Makefile :)
10:49:53  <Ammler> making dos version?
10:50:01  <planetmaker> yes :) Or rather: making both
10:50:13  <Ammler> useless, imo.
10:50:24  <planetmaker> not for newgrf which also target ttdp
10:50:25  <Ammler> well, dunno.
10:50:33  <FooBar_> I don't need a dos version of FIRS...
10:50:37  <Ammler> at least, it is useless to make a dos grf with windows sprites.
10:51:00  <FooBar_> Those 6 people using the DOS base graphics better change the palette themselves in the newgrf config
10:51:33  <Ammler> FooBar_: hwy not the opposite?
10:51:45  <Ammler> you have more colors in dos
10:52:36  <FooBar_> Apart from that there are much more people using the Windows version who then all have to start changing the palette, I already started in the Windows palette and I'm not interested in changing that :P
10:52:40  <Ammler> wouldn't it be better to make dos grfs and convert them to windows?
10:54:38  <FooBar_> If you draw in Windows, you're certain about the produced outcome. The other way round in might change.
10:55:34  <Ammler> at least, I see no sense (except some patchers might use dos base) to convert a windows grf to dos.
10:55:47  <FooBar_> But then the difference is only 6 colours, so in the end it's hardly noticable
10:56:03  <Ammler> FooBar_: dos/windows palette is just a name
10:56:13  <Ammler> nothing to do anymore with your os
10:56:42  <FooBar_> I know that. The difference is that the windows palette has 6 colours less than the dos one.
10:57:10  <FooBar_> And that's the only difference. It could as well have been called 'palette1' and 'palette2'
10:57:17  <Ammler> yeah, I am not a drawer, so you know that better.
10:57:37  <Ammler> yep
10:58:10  <Ammler> well, did you drawer never miss those colors?
10:58:16  <Ammler> (only 6?)
10:58:35  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: NewGRFs - Feature #309: Add support for both, win and dos NewGRF files @ (by planetmaker)
10:58:54  <FooBar_> I've always used the windows palette, so for me it's as if those 6 colours don't exist
10:59:34  <Ammler> but we agree to publish dos grf only per request?
10:59:49  <Ammler> as long as nobody asks for, we shouldn't
11:00:40  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: #openttdcoop - Document: Palette comparison @ (by foobar)
11:00:40  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: #openttdcoop - TTD_20Palettes.png @ (by foobar)
11:01:52  <FooBar_> For sets that are intended to be used with TTDPatch as well, I recommend providing both types. For OpenTTD oriented sets one palette (the Windows one IMO) is sufficient. Most people use the Windows base graphics and OpenGFX uses the Windows palette as well.
11:03:43  <Ammler> well, currently it is a big hassle if you don't use the same newgrfs as the base
11:04:06  <Ammler> you can't save them to the cfg.
11:04:35  <Ammler> so, openttdcoop will use windows only grfs anyway for now.
11:05:13  <Ammler> the coop pack i.e. has only windows grfs
11:06:16  <FooBar_> yet another reason to use the windows palette ;)
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11:06:46  <FooBar_> Action 8 should get a bit that indicates the palette used...
11:07:41  <planetmaker> FooBar_, add that to the suggestions list in grf version 8.
11:07:56  <FooBar_> hasn't that been suggested before?
11:08:06  <Ammler> hmm, I already suggested that once in #openttd
11:08:30  <planetmaker> FooBar_, dunno :)
11:08:30  <Ammler> we talked quite a lo about, also dalestan
11:08:45  <FooBar_> what was the outcome?
11:08:53  <Ammler> but an official request might be better ;-)
11:09:11  <Ammler> dalestan suggested using something out of the spec
11:09:17  <FooBar_> I better read the thread first... :P
11:09:26  <planetmaker>
11:09:28  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Heading for grf version 8 (at
11:09:30  <Ammler> something before nfo starts or fileend
11:11:38  <Ammler> it shouldn't be something up to the coder, so using nfo for the palette is bad.
11:11:53  <Ammler> I mean, what happens, if I code the palette to use windows
11:12:08  <FooBar_> Rubidium: I'd like to propose to store the palette used to encode the NewGRF. For the authors it would probably easiest if it could be added automatically, although it could also be a byte in the Action 8.
11:12:10  <FooBar_> :P
11:12:13  <Ammler> but then using dos sprites and tell grfcodec to use dos palette?
11:12:23  <FooBar_> So it's already supported by the OTTD devs...
11:12:44  <Ammler> " I'd like to propose to store the palette used to encode the NewGRF"
11:13:01  <Ammler> grfcodec should set the palette
11:13:16  <Ammler> not the nfo coder.
11:13:23  <planetmaker> well, it does. The problem is that the palette cannot be read from the newgrf file
11:13:42  <Ammler> grfcodec should write it to the header
11:13:52  <planetmaker> it's no big deal to have grfcodec encode either dos or win upon request
11:14:01  <FooBar_> It should, but I'd be quite happy with having to set it myself. If a grf author puts the wrong one in, that that's his problem.
11:14:03  <planetmaker> yes. But that needs a newgrf change :)
11:14:13  <Ammler> it could of course also use Action8 and overwrite it, if it doesn't match.
11:14:43  <planetmaker> FooBar_, that possibility does not need to be removed (nor should it for old grfs). But having an automatic detection doesn't hurt :)
11:14:49  <Ammler> it wouldn't need a newgrf change, if it doesn't use nfo spec
11:15:12  <Ammler> and write the used palette to the header or footer of the grf itself
11:15:25  <planetmaker> ?
11:15:46  <planetmaker> you mean grfcodec should do that? Well, maybe.
11:15:54  <FooBar_> Dalestan: GRFCodec cannot do this.
11:15:55  <planetmaker> But it needs to be in the specs despite.
11:16:10  <Ammler> grfcodec can not detect the palette
11:16:10  <planetmaker> FooBar_, where?
11:16:29  <FooBar_> right after Rubidium's post:
11:16:31  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Heading for grf version 8 (at
11:16:35  <Ammler> but grfcodec has the used palette as parameter (-p)
11:16:42  <FooBar_> read that post as well for the context :P
11:17:06  <Ammler> so if I run grfcodec -p2, it is obvious, which palette to use, isn't?
11:17:08  <FooBar_> Ammler: which you as grf author have to set manually as well ;)
11:17:36  <Ammler> yep
11:17:37  <FooBar_> if it's in the nfo, grfcodec might be able to read it from there instead
11:17:39  <Ammler> that is fine
11:18:10  <FooBar_> so setting it manually in the nfo should be just as fine...?
11:18:29  <Ammler> and it is quite a hassle for people not having makefile
11:18:58  <Ammler> what, if you like to convert -m?
11:19:23  <FooBar_> hmmm
11:19:32  <FooBar_> maybe grfcodec should change that bit then
11:19:56  <Ammler> yes, grfcodec should just write the palette to the grf, and everything is fine.
11:20:25  <Ammler> if it is in action8, grfcodec should also overwrite that, if it is different
11:21:01  <Ammler> if the palette is in action8, it might be easier for openttd to read it.
11:21:41  <Ammler> for me, I really hope, version 8 will have a version dword
11:22:29  <planetmaker> I don't mind the version format. But I really hope for the minor version :)
11:22:38  <planetmaker> But most likely that will then result in word :)
11:23:15  <planetmaker> actually... Minor version should be word. Not byte :)
11:23:22  <planetmaker> r255 is easily reached :P
11:40:15  * yorick thinks about id "W" A5 00 01 :)
11:47:24  <FooBar_> got inspiration from F125? :P
11:53:01  <Ammler> [13:23] <planetmaker> actually... Minor version should be word. Not byte  <-- dword not word
11:54:00  <Ammler> (I assume, you mean major version is done with the GRFID)
11:56:01  <Ammler> FooBar_: whre do you see the R on the 2?
11:56:43  <FooBar_> 1337-speak told me that that was a possibility...
11:57:00  <yorick> heh, I do see the R on the 2
11:57:04  <FooBar_> I have a hard time seeing it myself, but since it's officially recognised...
11:57:14  <yorick> I used to write the r like that
11:58:06  <Ammler> mirror?
11:58:56  <yorick> yes
11:59:18  <yorick> it's easier to write with the letters connected
12:00:19  <yorick>
12:00:20  <Webster> Title: Bestand:Schoonschrift.jpg - Wikipedia (at
12:22:09  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 274: Change b737-200 too @ (by yorick)
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12:52:34  <FooBar_> 54
12:52:50  <FooBar_> that's the number of sprites for two sand pit layouts...
12:53:48  <Ammler> do you still have a limit for those tiles?
12:53:57  <FooBar_> nope
12:54:08  <FooBar_> I'll be using 1 tile for those 54 spirtes
12:55:24  <yorick> why...why...why!
12:55:46  <yorick> why is this whole vehicle availability system so unclear
12:56:27  <yorick> model life: 6, early retirement on: never retired, model life: 6, early retirement off: retired far too late
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14:30:07  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #96 (Assigned): Sprites 4462:4465 (4) - Arctic church @ (by Gen.Sniper)
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14:50:43  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 146: Fix #306: Industry over-production @ (by foobar)
14:50:43  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #306 (Closed): Coal mine over-produces when Engineering Suppl... @ (by foobar)
14:57:15  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #96: Sprites 4462:4465 (4) - Arctic church @ (by Ammler)
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15:12:49  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 147: Codechange: save a DCxx TextID. @ (by foobar)
15:13:12  <FooBar_> Ammler: the church sprites are posted in the development thread... :P
15:13:36  <Ammler> yeah, I saw it
15:16:11  <Ammler> sprite aligner is just ugly it seems
15:16:31  <Ammler> if you use tabs instead of spaces, it seems not to work either.
15:22:17  <Ammler> it sucks, i give up :-(
15:23:58  <Ammler> it works just nicely with your code
15:37:19  <Ammler> planetmaker: how to force make to compile one grf
15:37:30  <Ammler> do I need to use clean
15:37:41  <Ammler> just remove  :-)
15:37:51  <planetmaker> hm?
15:38:00  <planetmaker> you mean opengfx?
15:38:15  <planetmaker> I don't understand
15:38:29  <planetmaker> just make should suffice. Or did you change existing graphics?
15:38:37  <planetmaker> Then use make remake
15:38:39  <Ammler> yes
15:38:55  <planetmaker> or touch the corresponding nfo file
15:38:58  <Ammler> but make remake would also remake grfs without changes
15:38:58  <planetmaker> then only that will be made
15:39:13  <planetmaker> that's what I do :)
15:39:23  <planetmaker> also for testing. Just touch something
15:40:51  <planetmaker> hm... it gets time that opengfx also uses the pre-processor :)
15:41:06  <planetmaker> so that we can include a list of nfo and pcx files which comprise each newgrf.
15:41:19  <planetmaker> but then... that will need make depend, I think
15:41:34  <planetmaker> as the newgrf method as I have it now only works with a single file
15:42:03  <Ammler> no list for pcx
15:42:08  <Ammler> that is already in the nfo
15:42:23  <planetmaker> well. Even so.
15:42:48  <planetmaker> But parsing the nfo for pcx files is... non-trivial.
15:43:03  <Ammler> imo, it is very trivial
15:43:05  <Ammler> awk
15:43:16  <Ammler> and unique
15:43:19  <planetmaker> please go and present me a working command with no doubles (unique will help)
15:43:54  <planetmaker> And test it with more than one file. The whole of OpenGFX is a good test case.
15:44:23  <planetmaker> If I have such command, I'd be really pleased to use that, also for the newgrfs.
15:44:50  <planetmaker> the things I tried with awk and such failed always in a few cases.
15:48:12  <planetmaker> And we must always avoid to have garbage in those dependencies vars as that will render the whole thing useless.
15:50:32  <Ammler> well, the alternative is using define for the pcx files?
15:50:58  <planetmaker> well... that's not really that sensible IMO
15:51:12  <Ammler> what have you in mind then?
15:51:33  <planetmaker> yes, it makes sense as you described. But I wasn't successful in that respect so far.
15:51:51  <planetmaker> You know your way better with shell scripting. So maybe you really can do that :)
15:51:57  <planetmaker> especially awk is not my friend.
15:52:20  <Ammler> he didn't use awk that often, yet.
15:52:26  <Ammler> heh*
16:18:03  <Brot6> OpenGFX: nightly compile not needed. (r94)
16:18:51  <planetmaker> :(
16:32:33  <Ammler> sorry :-P
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17:02:49  <FooBar_> hmmm... If I understand correctly there can be just one sand pit layout
17:03:13  <FooBar_> ah, no, I'm mistaken...
17:03:27  <FooBar_> size /is/ a dword :)
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17:20:39  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 148: Change: Place breweries in towns. @ (by foobar)
17:20:39  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 149: Fix (part of #297): Number of waste collection points. @ (by foobar)
18:02:45  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #310: Breweries not built on hilly / mountainous maps @ (by andythenorth)
18:04:04  <Brot6> firs: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
18:14:48  <FooBar_> planetmaker: Editing the cfg won't do any good as it doesn't impact a running game. But an option in the cheat menu "allow changing newgrf" might be a solution :)
18:14:51  <FooBar_> why is that?
18:15:11  <FooBar_> IMO it's just a GUI thing that needn't be stored in the savegame.
18:15:45  <FooBar_> i.e. if(config-setting==true) display_newgrfcfg_option_in_menu();
18:16:21  <FooBar_> else hide_newgrfcfg_in_menu();'
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18:18:06  <FooBar_> oh, you aren't around...
18:24:54  <Ammler> FooBar_: changing newgrfs is quite easy in a running
18:25:07  <Ammler> if you know how or what are you speaking about?
18:25:24  <FooBar_> yes, too easy IMO, hence the suggestion:
18:26:30  <FooBar_> let me know if /you/ understand pm's reply. I don't :S
18:27:01  <Ammler> well, cfg changes have no effect for running game so your suggestion is useless
18:27:33  <Ammler> and I seriously wouldn't like they would do something like that.
18:28:22  <FooBar_> I think everything from the [misc] section is applied regardless of a savegame
18:28:52  <FooBar_> explain why a savegame can use a different font or base graphics set than that what it was started with
18:29:12  <FooBar_> those are all stored in the [misc] section, i.e. global settings
18:31:44  <Ammler> you speak about opengfx only?
18:32:23  <FooBar_> no, I speak about everything in the [misc] section of openttd.cfg
18:32:41  <Ammler> yes, those settings aren't in the save
18:32:54  <Ammler> but the newgrf settings are.
18:33:02  <Ammler> so cfg changes has no effect
18:33:11  <FooBar_> whether or not to show the newgrf config in a running game can be in there as well.
18:33:27  <FooBar_> my suggestion is only about hiding that dialog in a running game, nothing more, nothing less
18:33:48  <Ammler> ah, ok.
18:34:51  <Ammler> btw. gamelog does show you, if someone did newgrf changes
18:36:34  <FooBar_> then it's already too late, not? As a person then already has complained about changing newgrfs in game not working... ;)
18:38:09  <Ammler> well, if you don't allow that, next questions will be, how to change newgrfs :P
18:38:32  <Ammler> and I really would hate to answer: "you can't"
18:39:14  <Ammler> personally, I need to change grfs on every game.
18:40:06  <FooBar_> from the main menu for normal users. Just like you're used to after changing a thing in openttd.cfg to reveal the option to change newgrfs ingame.
18:40:35  <FooBar_> that second option is what you would need
18:41:13  <FooBar_> If one got as far as changing the openttd.cfg, one should know not to complain when things are messed up after changing things in a running game
18:41:31  <Ammler> yeah, I see, for me it wouldn't change I just have to set that setting. (also possible over console with "set enable_newgrfgui"
18:41:57  <Ammler> but then you need to explain the people how they need to do that.
18:42:33  <Ammler> because most saves/scenarios need a change.
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18:43:04  <Ammler> people don't read the newgrf readmes.
18:43:30  <Ammler> they just include grfs, without setting parameters.
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18:44:02  <Ammler> typical example is TTRS and dbset
18:44:31  <Ammler> if you use that, you need to set dbset not using road crossings
18:44:45  <Ammler> or you disable TTRS roads
18:45:42  <Ammler> he, you should set a parameter in firs, if you don't set it, nothing will change ingame.
18:46:15  <Ammler> so someone needs to read the readme to get it ;-)
18:47:56  <FooBar_> It's not about reading readmes. It's about people not reading the bloody warning message they even have to accept and still complaining... I get annoyed by those people.
18:48:57  <FooBar_> It's fine not reading a readme IMO (but do read it when something is not working). A newgrf should work for most people in it's default settings.
18:50:10  <Ammler> well, as I said, if you disable it like you propose, you need explain, how to enable it.
18:50:54  <FooBar_> Exactly.
18:51:05  <FooBar_> And people who don't read can't mess things up :)
18:51:29  <andythenorth_> Ask the audience: foundry with red metal building, or just brick only?
18:51:43  <andythenorth_> both the main buildings are modular and can be extended n tiles long
18:51:48  <andythenorth_>
18:51:50  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development (at
18:52:38  <FooBar_> I think the metal building would look good if it's less pale and bit noisy (or dirty if you like)
18:53:33  <FooBar_> Such a metal building is very suitable to add to an existing industry after a certain time as expansion.
18:54:18  <andythenorth_> FooBar_: that's my thinking....
18:54:30  <andythenorth_> ...foundry will be one of the most long lived industries in the game
18:54:36  <andythenorth_> it's worth varying the graphics over time
18:59:28  <FooBar_> yes, industries changing their appearance over time will be a great feature indeed
19:01:15  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 150: Feature: Sand Pit @ (by foobar)
19:02:16  <planetmaker> [20:31]	<FooBar_>	my suggestion is only about hiding that dialog in a running game, nothing more, nothing less <-- right. I understood your proposal as a newgrf setting
19:02:56  <planetmaker> So it might work that way, if it's not stored. But then, storing in the savegame that the newgrfs have been tempered with doesn't hurt :)
19:03:39  <FooBar_> true, but that was not my proposal :P
19:03:44  <planetmaker> :)
19:04:01  <planetmaker> well, I read it implicitly as a per-game setting. That's what my reply is based upon. :)
19:04:11  <planetmaker> as most settings in the config are per-game.
19:04:17  <planetmaker> with the rare exceptions.
19:04:29  <FooBar_> this one being a rare exception ;)
19:04:35  <planetmaker> :)
19:04:43  * FooBar_ is glad the sand pit is coded
19:05:00  <planetmaker> ha, sounds good. Is a compiled newgrf somewhere?
19:05:09  <FooBar_> yep, in the nightly repo
19:05:14  * planetmaker is sad that he still cannot make firs :(
19:05:32  <planetmaker> good :) Just wasn't sure whether the nightly is of today or yesterday
19:05:39  <FooBar_> it should be noted that the sand pit uses only one industry tile...
19:05:54  <FooBar_> doesn't it show a date in the file list?
19:06:13  <FooBar_> granted, I uploaded it just minutes ago
19:06:41  <planetmaker> granted, I didn't bother to look before I asked :P
19:07:59  <planetmaker> and yes, it shows the time and date of compilation
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19:09:27  <FooBar_> Good, I didn't know if I disabled that... And I couldn't be bothered to look :P
19:09:48  <planetmaker> lol :)
19:10:00  <planetmaker> lazy brutes, all of us! ;)
19:10:43  <Ammler> FooBar_: you changed order, so the newest is at top
19:10:55  <FooBar_> Ammler: yes, I know I did that :P
19:11:01  <Ammler> that was a big confusing the first time I looked :P
19:11:13  <Ammler> !s/big/bit/
19:11:23  <FooBar_> I think it makes more sense once the list gets longer
19:11:29  <Ammler> well, big does match too ;-)
19:11:42  <FooBar_> :)
19:11:56  <planetmaker> FooBar_: the fences of the sandpits look a bit odd when they're between the pit and the buildings...
19:12:13  <FooBar_> planetmaker: complain to Andy please :P
19:12:21  <planetmaker> :P
19:15:28  <planetmaker> hm... where are the breweries gone?
19:17:26  <planetmaker> hm... on a 512^2 map with high industries I got one brewery
19:18:34  <planetmaker> sounds a bit low
19:19:11  <planetmaker> given i have everything else one, two dozen times
19:20:34  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 275: Fix up 737-300 @ (by yorick)
19:21:01  <andythenorth_> yay sandpit
19:22:35  <andythenorth_> needs some work on the water...
19:24:11  <andythenorth_> FIRS is going to rather overload the industry view on the map
19:24:23  <planetmaker> :)
19:24:24  <andythenorth_> :0
19:24:49  <planetmaker> andythenorth_: it might IMO be an idea to also supply sprites for the sandpit so that there's no fence between its buildings and the pit itself.
19:25:05  <planetmaker> Currently it looks a bit funny with like a walk-path for kids between the adjacent sandpit tiles
19:25:07  <FooBar_> planetmaker: I set that breweries need to be in town instead of near the town sign. As now it has to replace buildings the game has a hard time placing the breweries.
19:25:33  <FooBar_> "walk-path for kids" :P
19:25:39  <planetmaker> FooBar_: I read that... it is my feeling that it might be good to relax that again :)
19:25:42  <FooBar_> I'll keep that in mind for the commit message...
19:25:51  <planetmaker> haha :D
19:26:09  <FooBar_> "Change: remove walk-path for kids"
19:27:04  <FooBar_> re:breweries. Hopefully some balancing will fix it, as I rather have them in town than like 20 tiles from the town center.
19:29:13  <FooBar_> [quote=DaleStan]It appears that the fancy, newly refactored, readable, maintainable parser doesn't like reading hex with bit 31 set. Fixed.[/quote]
19:29:38  <andythenorth_> re: the sandpit...the fence is there because the pit can be used in different configurations such as this one
19:29:38  <andythenorth_>
19:29:39  <FooBar_> So hopefully you guys can compile FIRS now :)
19:29:39  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development (at
19:30:57  <andythenorth_> there is also an idea for the sandpit that two pits can be placed nearby for a super-sized sand pit
19:31:05  <andythenorth_> however the fence could be removed where it isn't needed
19:31:17  <andythenorth_> depends how FooBar_ has sliced and diced...(goes to look)
19:31:36  <FooBar_> the fence currently sits on top of the ground sprite
19:31:49  <FooBar_> so that's not very useful in that aspect...
19:31:53  <planetmaker> FooBar_: that sounds like a "compile now" :)
19:31:55  <FooBar_> can be changed though
19:32:08  <planetmaker> but first I need to pull and compile some other things.
19:32:49  <andythenorth_> looks like it would be trivial to provide an extra tile with no fence?
19:33:12  <andythenorth_> also...the green grass needs knocking out in favour of the default terrain tile showing through
19:33:18  <andythenorth_> I should have done that...
19:34:09  <FooBar_> re:terrain: yes. I did that for the whatchamacallit next to the pit, but not for the pit itself, as I discovered that after coding...
19:34:30  <andythenorth_> lets just log it as an issue and move on?
19:34:53  <FooBar_> yes, especially as you wanted to change the water as well
19:35:13  <andythenorth_> well the water does suck :|
19:37:10  <FooBar_> it looked good on paper, but that doesn't buy us anything ;)
19:38:50  <andythenorth_> drawing nice animated water is very hard without being able to see the animation :)
19:39:04  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #311: Sand Pit changes @ (by andythenorth)
19:39:10  <planetmaker> he...
19:39:15  <planetmaker> I just compiled renum 2125
19:39:22  <planetmaker> then tried to copy it over 2124
19:39:41  <planetmaker> I get the error message "cp: /usr/local/bin/renum and ./renum are identical (not copied)."
19:39:51  <planetmaker> I wonder whether then the new binary will have any effect...
19:56:42  <planetmaker> hm... I think r2124 for grfcodec/renum isn't the fix we need. It's just one int->uint change
19:56:53  <planetmaker> so no, firs still doesn't compile for me.
19:57:57  <FooBar_> hmmz... maybe he didn't commit yet...
19:58:27  <planetmaker> I guess :) Fixing the syntax would look differently in the commit log :)
19:58:43  <FooBar_> It is committed as the fix though:
19:59:32  <planetmaker> Well... it IS a fix. But it doesn't unbreak compilation of firs.
20:03:19  <FooBar_> hmmmz
20:03:54  <planetmaker> not a single bit actually as far as I see.
20:04:06  <planetmaker> you would need windows binaries, would you?
20:04:52  <planetmaker> but then... I don't see much point in compiling those...
20:05:06  <planetmaker> ... if it won't work anyway
20:10:08  <FooBar_> yes I need windows binaries to test. Maybe you can file a bugreport?
20:10:46  <planetmaker> I should do that
20:13:02  <FooBar_> "We provide a standalone command line Subversion package for Windows."
20:13:11  <FooBar_> Why is it in an installer if it's standalone? :S
20:15:11  <andythenorth_> a little something...
20:15:11  <andythenorth_>
20:15:13  <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for Open Transport Tycoon (at
20:16:09  <andythenorth_> linky here
20:16:11  <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for Open Transport Tycoon (at
20:17:07  <FooBar_> not bad
20:17:43  <andythenorth_> anything else I should add?
20:17:45  <FooBar_> although "coded" doesn't mean "finished", something people might think...
20:17:54  <andythenorth_> it's easy to make these views
20:18:09  <andythenorth_> I only have two states: not_coded; coded
20:18:13  <andythenorth_> easy to add more states...
20:18:14  <FooBar_> Well, I'd like a list with things I should code next :P
20:18:27  <FooBar_> that doesn't necessarily have to be on the website though
20:18:36  <andythenorth_> 'planned'?  'ready_to_code'?
20:18:47  <andythenorth_> or we could just do that on irc
20:19:04  <planetmaker> 'planned' is a bit... unnecessary. After all, everything you list there is planned, isn't it?
20:19:53  <FooBar_> yes, we could do that on irc as well. no problem
20:20:06  <FooBar_> I have the glass works next on the list
20:20:21  <andythenorth_> okey dokey
20:20:23  <FooBar_> after that the list ends
20:20:31  <FooBar_> so if you have any suggestions...
20:20:47  <andythenorth_> lets see...
20:20:48  <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for Open Transport Tycoon (at
20:20:55  <andythenorth_> meat packer?
20:21:00  <andythenorth_> dairy farm?
20:21:05  <andythenorth_> that's a chain...
20:21:18  <FooBar_> ok, can be done :)
20:21:23  <andythenorth_> dairy?
20:22:16  <FooBar_> that should be enough for tomorrow :)
20:23:12  <FooBar_> by the way, when this week is over I won't be coding for about 4 weeks... holidays :D
20:23:25  <Ammler> omg
20:24:29  <FooBar_> what? can't a guy go see some other places in the world?
20:25:59  <planetmaker> one can. But you didn't name a replacement coding slave. And no, I'm not available for that position ;)
20:26:36  <planetmaker> Did I miss any obvious loop holes? :P
20:26:44  <andythenorth_> well I might have a look
20:26:52  <Ammler> planetmaker: no need FIRS is finished then ;-)
20:27:01  <planetmaker> haha :)
20:27:07  <Ammler> then we have 4 weeks to hunt the bugs
20:31:40  <planetmaker> oh goodness, how stupid can I be.
20:31:49  <planetmaker> Yes, the fix of renum & grfcodec works! Yay!
20:32:08  <FooBar_> what was wrong?
20:32:08  <planetmaker> I missed I had binaries in /usr/bin also, not only in /usr/local/bin :S
20:32:24  <planetmaker> wrong paths basically
20:32:30  <FooBar_> ah, yes, how stupid can one be... :P
20:32:33  <planetmaker> e.g. old binary taken by make :)
20:34:08  <planetmaker>  //!!Warning (100): Default ID appears earlier in sprite.
20:34:15  <planetmaker> ^ I get that a couple of times
20:34:38  <FooBar_> yes, me too. I tried -w 100, but that didn't work for some reason
20:34:56  <planetmaker> lol. Fixing an error by telling "shut up"? ;)
20:35:09  <Ammler> ALL in this channel ARE STUPID!
20:35:30  <planetmaker> cheers on stupidity!
20:35:32  <FooBar_> I don't consider it an error, as the default ID is never reached, yet I still have to specify an existing one
20:35:40  <Ammler> well, (one excpetion :P
20:38:28  <Ammler> Dalestan is around, does he fix the bugs?
20:38:31  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #96: Sprites 4462:4465 (4) - Arctic church @ (by Gen.Sniper)
20:38:31  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #96 (Closed): Sprites 4462:4465 (4) - Arctic church @ (by Gen.Sniper)
20:38:52  <Ammler> mäh, you shouldn't close it  :P
20:42:31  <planetmaker> i open it again
20:42:47  <planetmaker> Ammler: it's ok, it is fixed :)
20:43:02  <planetmaker> or DaleStan did it obviously today
20:43:03  <Ammler> ah
20:44:04  <Ammler> planetmaker: you opened what?
20:44:23  <planetmaker> the closed feature #96
20:44:29  <planetmaker> it's not done, is it?
20:44:35  <planetmaker> or is it coded?
20:45:40  <FooBar_> there's no commit message leading to believe that...
20:45:57  <planetmaker> exactly
20:46:07  <FooBar_> Let me open it again...
20:46:18  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #96 (Feedback): Sprites 4462:4465 (4) - Arctic church @ (by planetmaker)
20:46:32  <FooBar_> oh, you already did :)
20:47:22  <FooBar_> I unassigned it, as gen.sniper doesn't have commit access anyways...
20:47:34  <planetmaker> good thing, yes, forgot that
20:47:56  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #96 (Feedback): Sprites 4462:4465 (4) - Arctic church @ (by planetmaker)
20:48:14  <FooBar_> Brot6: is confused :P
20:48:47  <FooBar_> anyways, I'm off. good night!
20:48:58  <planetmaker> No, it's alright, I edited twice :P
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20:49:00  <planetmaker> Good night!
20:49:03  <planetmaker> ...
20:49:59  <andythenorth_> good night
20:51:52  <Ammler> you need to hurry, if you like to say "bye" to fb
20:52:03  <planetmaker> indeed
20:52:11  <planetmaker> windows binary of nforenum 2125 compiling
20:52:39  <andythenorth_> ooh new brewery layouts.  shiny :)
20:53:21  <Ammler> planetmaker: means, I can update my server renum and then enable firs nightly?
20:53:34  <planetmaker> yes
20:53:50  <planetmaker> you can build your own renum and grfcodec, yes?
20:53:57  <planetmaker> Or you want my lin builds?
20:54:43  <Ammler> added a new status "Reopened"
20:54:56  <Ammler> which is allowed for everyone
20:54:56  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 276: Fix up b737-300F @ (by yorick)
20:55:32  <planetmaker> Ammler: good idea.
20:55:45  <Ammler> it is btw. hard task
20:55:56  <planetmaker> hard task?
20:59:59  <Ammler> much work it was
21:00:23  <Ammler> workflow
21:00:31  <planetmaker> ah, yes.
21:02:12  <planetmaker> win binaries successfully compiled :)
21:03:47  <Ammler> it is very nice, btw.
21:04:01  <Ammler> you could define who can change the status to which
21:05:55  *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC
21:06:04  *** yorick has quit IRC
21:10:13  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #229: IL 62 grayscale @ (by simozzz_AK)
21:11:34  <planetmaker> OpenTTD allows only devs to re-open an issue
21:11:54  <planetmaker> but I think anyone is fine.
21:19:45  *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
21:32:21  <planetmaker> new nforenum and grfcodec available at the
21:49:03  <Ammler> planetmaker: flyspray has a option to suggest reopen
21:49:13  <Ammler> so it is like that
21:49:22  <Ammler> you can only change to reopen
21:49:37  <Ammler> it needs a dev to reassign or close again :-)
22:01:02  <planetmaker> good night
22:02:19  *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC
22:04:04  <Brot6> firs: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
22:40:57  <XeryusTC> !password
22:46:57  <Ammler> XeryusTC: this isn't the dev game server :P

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