Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 26th August 2009:
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01:33:38  <Brot6> Backup done! (Usage: 95M)
01:33:38  <Brot6> It's OBVIOUS ... The FURS never reached ISTANBUL ... You were an EXTRA in the REMAKE of "TOPKAPI" ... Go home to your WIFE ... She's making FRENCH TOAST!
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05:23:22  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 256: Cleanup: Apply some coding style to template-mus.nfo @ (by planetmaker)
05:27:43  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 257: Cleanup: Apply some coding style to ids.pnfo @ (by planetmaker)
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05:48:51  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 258: Codechange: Apply ID-replacement to African files @ (by planetmaker)
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05:57:27  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 259: Codechange: Make the pcx file a define in the MU template, too @ (by planetmaker)
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06:04:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
07:32:57  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #380 (Feedback): TTDPatch support @ (by Ammler)
07:40:58  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #380: TTDPatch support @ (by planetmaker)
07:43:08  <Ammler> planetmaker: renaming is the only thing
07:44:58  <planetmaker> ok
07:58:18  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #380: TTDPatch support @ (by Ammler)
08:08:59  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #380: TTDPatch support @ (by Ammler)
08:16:40  <Rubidium> shouldn't the extra grf actually be ttdpatchw.grf and support all ttdpatchw stuff?
08:17:34  <Ammler> maybe sometime, but I assume, that would need additional work.
08:18:14  <Rubidium> true, but it's like replacing the original graphics for OpenTTD with those files (in the
08:18:20  <Rubidium> (and without the obg)
08:18:42  <Rubidium> you'd end up with inconsistent graphics
08:19:09  <Rubidium> though then you're back at the: how much people actually would like to use it/
08:19:12  <Ammler> well, the gui won't be replaced.
08:19:48  <Ammler> dunno, what else is missing.
08:20:12  <Rubidium> decompile ttdpatchw.grf :)
08:20:42  <Rubidium> I fear they don't have the source files lingering around somewhere
08:21:01  <Ammler> in the svn tree?
08:21:53  <Ammler> if it is only the gui, I think, it is fine.
08:22:11  <Rubidium> I *think* you're missing the operative word in my previous sentence
08:22:54  <Ammler> well, ttdpatch users would use it only because of the look, not of the need.
08:23:11  <Ammler> so they use it, because of the nicer trains or the terrain.
08:24:06  <Ammler> well, replacing the ttdpatch.grf would reduce sprites usage, which is a issue there.
08:25:13  <Ammler> You should know, there are a lot "old" TTDler around, which don't like the look of OpenGFX
08:25:24  <Ammler> just ask in #openttd ;-)
08:26:53  <Rubidium> 04 05 06 07 09 0B 0F 11 12 <- those action 5s are in ttdpatchw.grf
08:27:51  <Rubidium> so it's presignals, catenary, foundations, (their) gui sprites, one way signs, tram tracks, pbs slopes tack marking, road stops and aqueducts
08:28:29  <Ammler> hmm, the newsignals
08:28:33  <Rubidium> which is basically what is in the extra grf, minus autorail, airport and OTTD gui sprites and with TTDP gui sprites
08:29:03  <Ammler> and temperate snowy trees
08:29:08  <Rubidium> it also has the 2cc colour maps
08:29:25  <Rubidium> temperate snowy trees isn't in ttdpatchw
08:30:00  <Ammler> in the basegraphics.grf or however that is called.
08:30:11  <Ammler> you think, that doesn't need to be replaced.
08:30:34  <Ammler> ah
08:32:13  <Ammler> well, IMO, we should wait until someone complains why the gui isn't replaced or why it needs so many sprites. Then we see at least, there is someone using it.
08:33:13  <Ammler> of course, if someone will ever contribute the missing sprites/code, we can :-)
08:33:39  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 260: Add: Extend ids.pnfo by all vehicle IDs. They still need to be used @ (by planetmaker)
08:33:53  <Ammler> but it is for sure post 0.1.0-stable
08:35:00  <Ammler> planetmaker: either you or the devzone uses different tab size:
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08:36:06  <Ammler> my less has same issues.
08:36:41  <Ammler> (so it is you)
08:38:30  <Doorslammer> Wonder why there is a wheelstanding Studebaker video in my Nightly folder...
08:38:37  <Ammler> and why are some comments very much right aligned.
08:38:41  <Doorslammer> Oh well, something to correct
08:38:46  <planetmaker> meh, ugly. But will pro'ly be me
08:39:08  <planetmaker> The different alignment partially is intended
08:39:32  <planetmaker> for those category comments.
08:39:38  <planetmaker> That way they stick out better.
08:39:47  <Ammler> it looks strange, if the tab size is different
08:39:47  <planetmaker> Ammler: what's the usual tab length then?
08:39:59  <planetmaker> I wasn't talking about tab size then :-)
08:40:02  <Ammler> 8
08:40:12  <planetmaker> I think I have 4
08:40:17  <Ammler> well, it is here 8
08:40:26  <Ammler> what does openttd use?
08:41:03  <planetmaker> 4 I think :-)
08:41:31  <planetmaker> 8 gives HUGE indentations with source code and makes it easily unreadable
08:41:43  <Ammler> well, the openttd readme uses 8
08:41:45  <planetmaker> But Rubidium will know by heart :-)
08:42:36  <Ammler> code looks more like 2
08:43:24  <planetmaker> :-)
08:43:39  <planetmaker> is it actually a per-file setting?
08:43:41  * planetmaker wonders
08:43:46  <planetmaker> shouldn#t with plain text
08:45:45  <Ammler> maybe a per-file-type setting :-)
08:46:14  <planetmaker> might be.
08:46:22  <planetmaker> makes more sense
08:46:48  <Ammler> if you view the page on the DevZone, how is it aligned?
08:47:42  <planetmaker> in the browser? Badly
08:48:53  <Doorslammer> Bloody OpenTTD page, so slow in downloading
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09:06:34  <Doorslammer> Ah, there we go, 0.7.2
09:06:40  <Doorslammer> And now to get the nightly too
09:12:50  <Rubidium> slow openttd page? which one?
09:14:38  <Doorslammer> Usually when downloading
09:15:32  <Rubidium> are you downloading from openttd's pages or from sourceforge?
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09:16:24  <Rubidium> cause my download speed is near the maximum speed of my connection (1.5 MB/s)
09:16:25  <Doorslammer> Havent seen Sourceforge come up in a while now
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10:04:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
10:19:46  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #508: Coords for 721 (tu154) @ (by simozzz_AK)
10:49:38  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #175: Redo Aer Lingus 737-200 @ (by FaddyPainter)
13:16:16  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #175: Redo Aer Lingus 737-200 @ (by Ammler)
13:24:00  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Bug #507: template.grf needed? @ (by Ammler)
13:35:42  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #175: Redo Aer Lingus 737-200 @ (by Ammler)
13:39:18  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #175: Redo Aer Lingus 737-200 @ (by FaddyPainter)
13:52:37  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Bug #507 (Closed): template.grf needed? @ (by planetmaker)
13:56:19  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #175: Redo Aer Lingus 737-200 @ (by Ammler)
14:02:38  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 261: Fix (r260): Don't use hyphens in macro names and use 1tab=8space fo... @ (by planetmaker)
14:04:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
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14:22:18  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 262: Fix: ALCo-GE-IR Boxcab naming (closes #161) @ (by planetmaker)
14:22:18  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Bug #161 (Closed): name of the boxcar / boxcab @ (by planetmaker)
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15:30:45  <DJNekkid> hi guys
15:31:00  <Ammler> HI GUY
15:31:05  <DJNekkid> hi gay :p
15:31:14  <DJNekkid> i mean ...
15:31:19  <DJNekkid> hi Ammler :p
15:31:25  <Ammler> yeah, it is ok :P
15:31:41  <Ammler> you never know ;-)
15:31:42  <DJNekkid> i assume you are like me, you dont have any ironic sense at all? :)
15:32:41  <DJNekkid> "[17:31:37] <+Ammler> you never know ;-)" ... i can always hope :)
15:32:57  <Ammler> oh :-o
15:33:09  <Ammler> :-)
15:33:37  <DJNekkid> is that a "suck mouth" ? (or blow, whatever fits your language)
15:33:50  <DJNekkid> anyway ...
15:33:54  <DJNekkid> from gayness to nfo
15:34:04  <DJNekkid> or codeing ...
15:34:05  <Doorslammer> Thank god
15:34:33  <Ammler> indeed, better
15:34:50  <DJNekkid> any thoughts on the vehicle Ids on the 2cc set?
15:34:55  <Ammler> he, I thought about trying your template and code a monolev train.
15:34:59  <DJNekkid> or, if we should change anyone of them?
15:35:16  <DJNekkid> thoose arent _really_ compatible
15:35:37  <Ammler> I think, if we can reorganize the set without changing IDs, we should try.
15:36:10  <DJNekkid> but; the current ones are quite "messy" so to speak
15:36:27  <Ammler> compatibility is one of the ugly things of ISR
15:36:47  <DJNekkid> im always thinking v 2.0 now ...
15:36:55  <Ammler> hehe
15:37:02  <DJNekkid> and 2.0 wont be compatible with 1.x anyway
15:37:05  <Ammler> yes.
15:37:07  <DJNekkid> as it removes the express wagon
15:39:51  <DJNekkid> did i crash=?
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15:41:50  <DJNekkid> ...
15:42:45  <Ammler> crash?
15:43:31  <DJNekkid> i dunno ... i may have
15:43:39  <DJNekkid> [17:36:56] <+DJNekkid> and 2.0 wont be compatible with 1.x anyway
15:43:40  <DJNekkid> [17:37:00] <+Ammler> yes.
15:43:40  <DJNekkid> [17:37:02] <+DJNekkid> as it removes the express wagon
15:43:40  <DJNekkid> [17:39:46] <+DJNekkid> did i crash=?
15:44:08  <Ammler> no, you didn't :-)
15:44:11  <DJNekkid> afk a bit...
15:44:14  <DJNekkid> f00d :p
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15:53:59  <planetmaker> DJNekkid, I'm still sad that the express wagon is something you want to remove from the MU...
15:54:02  <planetmaker> oh, and hi :-)
15:54:50  <planetmaker> My sadness probably stems from the fact that I didn't understand the need to remove it...
15:55:02  <planetmaker> or the advantage.
15:56:46  <planetmaker> Maybe you should start in the wiki a "discussion" on what you envision for v2 - you seem already to have plans
15:57:00  <planetmaker> wiki = the wiki part of the 2cctrainset in the devzone
15:59:02  <planetmaker> hm... maybe the forums there is better. We even started there :-P
16:00:05  <planetmaker> hm... reading that, it comes back. We had that discussion.
16:00:49  <planetmaker> IMO condensing the MU wagons to one is clearly detrimental to the player: no ease to build a combined mail / pax / valuables trains anymore
16:01:36  <planetmaker> code cleanliness doesn't overrule playability there IMO
16:01:49  <planetmaker> (or anywhere else)
16:04:01  <Chris_Booth> PM i see what you are saynig but do you get for example TGV mail trains?
16:04:07  <Chris_Booth> or valuble trains?
16:04:22  <Chris_Booth> you may be a cargo van on  TGV/ICE
16:04:23  <planetmaker> Chris_Booth, so?
16:04:31  <Chris_Booth> but you wouldnt get an eniter train
16:04:50  <planetmaker> I would actually build them.
16:04:55  <planetmaker> I *do*
16:05:05  <Chris_Booth> i use them aswell
16:05:09  <planetmaker> in some crappy games. All in one train
16:05:29  <planetmaker> and then having it only one wagon disables the possibility to build it without big loops
16:05:34  <Chris_Booth> but i think IMO they should only be allowed to be used in conjunction with PAX
16:05:51  <planetmaker> why?
16:05:55  <Chris_Booth> so a max of 2 express van per train
16:06:01  <Chris_Booth> more realistic
16:06:12  <planetmaker> I care shit about realism. It's about fun
16:06:42  <Chris_Booth> then allow 2cc MU train to take cargo
16:06:46  <Chris_Booth> like livestock
16:07:00  <planetmaker> I don't want to tell the player what to do.
16:07:02  <planetmaker> If someone wants to restrict himself - fine
16:07:11  <planetmaker> Well. There are limits :-)
16:07:30  <planetmaker> Actually, my idea is to have a grf parameter: "disable realism" :-)
16:07:48  <Chris_Booth> i was just about to say that
16:08:07  <Chris_Booth> in current 2cc you can add mail to ICE3 or HSA
16:08:28  <Chris_Booth> why not, or why should you be able to make a mail TGV?
16:09:17  <Chris_Booth> BTW i think the ICE 3 in 2cc is underpowered
16:10:29  <planetmaker> mail in ICE3 is not unrealistic
16:10:47  <Rubidium> planetmaker: for realism you need the slower MU trains because passengers cannot cope with the high Gs that coal can take; if you were to accelerate grain at such high Gs you might end up with flour though
16:10:50  <planetmaker> DB offered a service called "ICE courier": bring stuff to the station and have it delivered to another station.
16:11:23  <Rubidium> planetmaker: didn't know that, only about a similar service for children
16:11:26  <planetmaker> but it worked / works unreliable :-P. We had stuff sent to Frankfurt arrive in Bruxelles :-P
16:11:36  <DJNekkid> back ...
16:12:09  <planetmaker> like a train parcel service, though. And not too cheap...
16:12:09  <DJNekkid> and yes, i want to remove the mu wagon, as it removes some nice gfx
16:12:19  <planetmaker> eh?
16:12:31  <planetmaker> DJNekkid, my concern is purely wrt to the player:
16:12:36  <DJNekkid> look at the current TGV
16:12:52  <planetmaker> the need to refit makes building a train with pax / mail / valuables virtually impossible
16:13:11  <planetmaker> oh, I'm not talking about the graphics here :-)
16:14:04  <Chris_Booth> are you going to add the AGV to 2cc?
16:14:13  <planetmaker> if we get the graphics :-)
16:14:14  <DJNekkid> Chris_Booth: feel like drawing?
16:14:36  <Chris_Booth> you are asking me to draw it
16:14:48  <Chris_Booth> i would just draw a square and name it the AGV
16:14:55  <DJNekkid> i've thought about adding the proposed TGV Duplex Advanced, as that is a simple modification to current GFX, but im quite inable to draw stuff
16:15:15  <Chris_Booth> who drew 2cc then?
16:15:26  <DJNekkid> mostly purno
16:16:12  <Chris_Booth> aaah
16:16:31  <Chris_Booth> maybe ask pruno very nicely to draw the TGV duplex adnaced
16:16:44  <Chris_Booth> maybe ask pruno very nicely to draw the TGV duplex advnaced
16:17:34  <DJNekkid> the duplex advanced can i do myself, as that is pasicly removeing the windows on the bottom row
16:17:48  <DJNekkid> \lower lever
16:18:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: update from r250 to r262, starting nightly compile
16:18:36  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: compile done (0 errors) -
16:18:36  <Brot6> firs: nightly compile not needed. (r213)
16:18:36  <Brot6> fish: update from r64 to r65, starting nightly compile
16:18:54  <Brot6> fish: compile done (0 errors) -
16:18:54  <Brot6> heqs: nightly compile not needed. (r169)
16:18:54  <Brot6> opengfx: nightly compile not needed. (r200)
16:18:55  <Brot6> opensfx: nightly compile not needed. (r41)
16:18:55  <Brot6> worldairlineset: update from r512 to r514, starting nightly compile
16:20:00  <Brot6> worldairlineset: compile done (0 errors) -
16:20:41  <Ammler> isn't that nice?
16:21:25  <DJNekkid> but planetmaker: it's possible to make a mixed train ... buy one, fit 2 wagons, refit to mail, buy 5 more, then buy a new train, fit 1 wagon, refit to valu
16:21:31  <DJNekkid> then move the valu-vagon to the first train
16:21:46  <Ammler> how silly
16:22:29  <Ammler> I would prefer different waggons, which looks the same, then need for refit.
16:22:55  <DJNekkid> then we still have the gfx issue
16:23:04  <DJNekkid> and, the current template isnt worth shit :p
16:23:22  <Ammler> isn't refit kinda obsolete since you can use as many ids, as you want?
16:23:50  <Ammler> nah :-P
16:24:15  <DJNekkid> well, it might be
16:24:21  <DJNekkid> but as i saied, then we will have the gfx issue
16:24:24  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: that surely is possible. If you buy either three engines or detach and re-attach the wagons
16:24:31  <Ammler> hmm, refit for livery might be useful
16:24:34  <planetmaker> Havin three diferent wagons for that is IMO a MUST
16:24:43  <planetmaker> Having even
16:24:46  <planetmaker> and different
16:25:18  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: what is the GFX issue you talk about?
16:26:05  <DJNekkid> for example the TGV's, the BM73, ET420 amongst others
16:26:06  <planetmaker> Chris_Booth: I'll only ask Purno when he releases his sprites as GPL. Otherwise not :-)
16:26:16  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: what about them?
16:26:52  <DJNekkid> try to build a TGV-atl with, lets say 5 wagons. Clone it, and move it so it will be a train with to trainsets
16:27:07  <DJNekkid> then look at the last wagon on the first trainset, and the first wagon on the 2nd trainset
16:27:37  <DJNekkid> or, do the same with a BM73, and look for the panto-wagon
16:28:24  <DJNekkid> or, iirc, the ET420
16:28:35  <planetmaker> ok, what do I see? :-)
16:29:26  <DJNekkid> shal i make a screenshot? :)
16:29:30  <Chris_Booth> no panto wagon
16:29:34  <Chris_Booth> i see it dj
16:29:48  <Chris_Booth> the middle 2 panto wagons dissapear
16:30:31  <Chris_Booth> that is rather strange
16:31:31  <DJNekkid> no its not
16:31:51  <planetmaker> The first engine of the TGV-Atl has no pantograph
16:32:07  <planetmaker> but the middle engines have pantogrpahs
16:32:11  <planetmaker> *pantographs
16:32:44  <planetmaker> but actually... it hasn't even without wagons or anything
16:32:55  <DJNekkid> not the engines
16:32:58  <DJNekkid> the first and last wagon
16:33:09  <Chris_Booth> yeah
16:33:25  <Chris_Booth> the first and last wagons have pantograph things
16:33:31  <planetmaker> they change livery.
16:33:33  <Chris_Booth> but the middle 2 nears the center dont
16:33:39  <planetmaker> But what does that have to do with express or not?
16:33:54  <DJNekkid> its two ways to code this
16:33:59  <Chris_Booth> happend with the THlays aswell
16:34:01  <DJNekkid> either:
16:34:14  <planetmaker> e.g. what does it have to with the wagons available? ... ok
16:34:19  <planetmaker> I listen :-)
16:34:22  <DJNekkid> "position in concist"
16:34:31  <planetmaker> ok
16:34:32  <DJNekkid> "position in a chain of the same vehicle ID"
16:34:45  <planetmaker> ok. Two different things?
16:34:49  <DJNekkid> in the TGV's case:
16:35:16  <DJNekkid> if i code it; the 2nd unit and last unit will have different gfx (the "extended" roof)
16:35:32  <DJNekkid> then it will, as now, loose thoose if there are more then one trainset connected to itself
16:35:57  <DJNekkid> or, i could code it "first and last of a ID will have this gfx"
16:36:09  <DJNekkid> but then what happens if i attach another wagon with different ID ?
16:36:49  <Chris_Booth> do the locos all have same ID?
16:36:55  <DJNekkid> lets say i have 6 pax wagons and 3 mail wagons
16:37:01  <DJNekkid> all engines and wagons have different IDs
16:37:03  <planetmaker> of one engine type: yes
16:37:25  <DJNekkid> the first and last pax wagon will have the "special gfx", plus the first and last mail wagon will have that
16:37:35  <Chris_Booth> DJ if for example i have a TBV atl does the front and back loco have same ID?
16:37:41  <planetmaker> hm, do they?
16:37:45  <planetmaker> Chris_Booth: it's ONE engine
16:37:48  <Chris_Booth> ok
16:38:00  <Chris_Booth> then why not look for all loco's
16:38:05  <planetmaker> just with property "two parts" or so.
16:38:26  <Chris_Booth> and if there is a loco in fron check for loco behind
16:38:37  <Chris_Booth> until you find first and last carrage in rake?
16:38:57  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: and it's only one consist, if the vehicle / wagon ID between the engine parts is everywhere the same?
16:39:28  <DJNekkid> i didnt understand that one ...
16:39:48  <Chris_Booth> say you have a TGV atl
16:39:52  <Chris_Booth> the locos ID is 1
16:39:53  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: that bug (currently) is also present, if I only use PAX wagons
16:39:58  <Chris_Booth> pax wagon 2
16:39:58  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #508 (Closed): Coords for 721 (tu154) @ (by simozzz_AK)
16:40:01  <Chris_Booth> and mail 3
16:40:12  <planetmaker> as I understand you: it's possible to remove it by some programming not yet done
16:40:19  <Chris_Booth> the train is built in a 1 223 11 223 1
16:40:23  <planetmaker> in that case, that it's only one wagon ID
16:40:36  <Chris_Booth> check for all the 1's in the ID chain
16:40:49  <planetmaker> and that it's impossible to remove (last / first of consist), if there's more than one wagon ID involved
16:40:55  <Chris_Booth> and then look at the set directly infornt or behind loco
16:40:58  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: the current bug is present yes,
16:41:30  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: the option is to not be able to attach more then 1 wagon to itself...
16:41:46  <planetmaker> eh?
16:42:05  <DJNekkid> in other words, head-wagons-head
16:42:11  <DJNekkid> not head-wagons-head-head-wagons-head
16:42:23  <planetmaker> well. That solution is ugly and unrealistic
16:42:49  <DJNekkid> exactly
16:42:51  <planetmaker> though... maybe not entirely. Can be done by graphics magic:
16:42:59  <planetmaker> consider this:
16:43:03  <Chris_Booth> DJ why not make wagons that have to be used driectly after head?
16:43:16  <planetmaker> if trainlenght > X: then insert 2nd engine graphics and change power
16:43:23  <planetmaker> (but don't call it 2nd engine)
16:43:46  <planetmaker> but still... sub-optimal
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16:45:18  <DJNekkid> then we could "just" make all trains articulated, with 3 different "middle" Id's, where one is "pure" pax, one is pax or mail, and one is pax or valuables
16:45:46  <planetmaker> hm...
16:46:00  <DJNekkid> but, that is disregarding purnos wish
16:46:05  <DJNekkid> that all trians could be any length
16:46:54  <DJNekkid> i mean, if i would like to, could i make a 50 tile TGV with one engine at each end, it would just be insanely underpowered, and have a 50kmh max speed or something
16:47:19  <Chris_Booth> you can do the in current 2cc set
16:47:41  <Chris_Booth> the ICE3 is underpowered as it is
16:47:48  <Chris_Booth> it can only run on flat tracks
16:47:53  <Chris_Booth> and slows at any incline
16:48:05  <DJNekkid> try to turn on "realistic acceleration"
16:48:14  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - where-are-the-special-gfx.PNG @ (by DJNekkid)
16:48:45  <Chris_Booth> it is on
16:48:59  <DJNekkid> hehe
16:49:02  <Chris_Booth> and freight wieght mulpilier is set to 0
16:50:18  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: Purno isn't present :-P
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16:50:29  <DJNekkid> anyway, its "his" set so to speak ...
16:50:43  <Beardie> hello
16:50:51  <Beardie> whos set?
16:50:51  <planetmaker> Just some clearification for me:
16:51:03  <planetmaker> vehicle = everything in one line in the depot
16:51:15  <planetmaker> consist = everything between two engine heads?
16:51:23  <planetmaker> (including those)
16:52:02  <planetmaker> hi Beardie
16:52:06  <planetmaker> we talk about 2cctrainset
16:52:09  <Beardie> hi planetmaker
16:52:10  <Beardie> ok cool
16:52:15  <Beardie> is Ammler about?
16:52:39  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: oki...
16:52:58  <Ammler> around*
16:53:16  <planetmaker> not around, but straigth through ;-)
16:53:27  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: so that was right, yes?
16:53:42  <DJNekkid> what was right? :p
16:53:57  <planetmaker> my definition of "consist" and "vehicle"?
16:54:34  <planetmaker> or asked differently: what is exactly a consist?
16:55:00  <Ammler> Beardie: because of ?
16:55:02  <DJNekkid> in the world of .nfo code is a concist "one line" the depot
16:55:11  <Ammler> I hope, you don't have more sprite sets like that ;-)
16:56:21  <Chris_Booth> a new plane set
16:56:23  <Chris_Booth> ooh
16:57:07  <Beardie> yes Ammler
16:57:17  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: can you rephrase? I don't understand
16:57:23  <DJNekkid> sure ...
16:57:24  <Beardie> that plane was a very old one which Fad took off the forums
16:57:34  <Beardie> the background had not been sorted on it
16:57:37  <planetmaker> (sorry, I know...)
16:57:48  <planetmaker> but I think it's important for my understanding :-)
16:58:00  <DJNekkid> in the world of nfo ... a position in a consist is any position in a train counting from either side
16:58:37  <DJNekkid> or with proper bits set, it can be every n^2th position
16:59:27  <DJNekkid> did that make it more clear?
16:59:28  <planetmaker> so... with some bits set, one depot line can be more than one consist?
16:59:58  <DJNekkid> well, sure, but that still wont fix the issue...
17:00:15  <planetmaker> I'm just asking. Not proposing anything :-)
17:00:35  <DJNekkid> well, in my head is a consist the "whole train"
17:00:40  <Ammler> Beardie: just again, it is the job of the drawer, not the coder ;-)
17:01:04  <DJNekkid> and a trainset is head-wagon(s)-head
17:01:12  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: but if it could be made such that the consist always ends at the last engine of the "initial" train?
17:01:19  <planetmaker> uh?
17:01:41  <planetmaker> couldn't it be made that consist = trainset as you just defined?
17:01:51  <DJNekkid> no, it cant
17:01:58  <DJNekkid> unless you want to make a feature request :)
17:02:01  <Beardie> Ammler true
17:02:03  <planetmaker> then - in my understanding - that graphics glitch wouldn't occur, though, right? (just hypthetically)
17:02:28  <DJNekkid> planetmaker:
17:02:29  <DJNekkid>
17:02:34  <DJNekkid> look at variable 40 and 41
17:02:43  <planetmaker> I have that in front of my eyes, yes :-)
17:03:05  <planetmaker> that's why I'm asking what's the difference between consist and vehicle
17:03:37  <DJNekkid> a vehicle in that case is "one unit"
17:03:55  <DJNekkid> or if you want, an engine or a wagon
17:03:57  <planetmaker> what you can buy. One by one
17:04:18  <planetmaker> e.g. a 5-wagon TGV is 6 vehicles?
17:04:27  <DJNekkid> 7
17:04:30  <planetmaker> (or 7, dunno, if dual-headed counts twice)
17:04:34  <DJNekkid> it does
17:04:38  <planetmaker> oki :-)
17:04:52  <planetmaker> ok, then that's sorted.
17:04:57  <planetmaker> Thank you very much
17:05:12  <DJNekkid> you now understand why i want to have only one mu wagon?
17:05:24  <planetmaker> I do understand it now, yes
17:05:30  <DJNekkid> that can refit to all 4 cargos? (pax-tour-mail-armor)
17:05:32  <planetmaker> Doesn't mean I agree with it :-)
17:05:46  <planetmaker> But now I understand I'll have to think about it.
17:06:55  <planetmaker> difficult decision. :-)
17:07:20  <DJNekkid> to break it down
17:07:21  <planetmaker> another solution would be to just forget the overhang roof at all.
17:07:34  <DJNekkid> and the BM73's panto?
17:07:39  <DJNekkid> and the ET420's panto?
17:07:58  <planetmaker> aren't they on the engine?
17:08:06  <DJNekkid> no
17:08:22  <DJNekkid> its on the 2nd vehicle so to speak
17:09:34  <DJNekkid> and radbe510's panto
17:11:21  <DJNekkid> either we:
17:11:28  <DJNekkid> 1. only one mu-wagon
17:11:37  <DJNekkid> 2. give a shit in the grapical glitches
17:12:12  <planetmaker> I see that.
17:12:21  <planetmaker> Life is about bad choices.
17:12:30  <planetmaker> Basically it's usability vs. looks
17:12:58  <planetmaker> and not (how I unjustified) claimed code beauty vs usability :-)
17:12:59  <DJNekkid> silicon boobs?
17:13:13  <planetmaker> yeah. Though I say, it's all natural :-P
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17:13:19  <DJNekkid> not particularu useful, but it looks good :)
17:13:23  <DJNekkid> (in general)
17:14:34  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: can't it be made more complicated:
17:15:12  <planetmaker> get the ID of the engine. then get the length of the next type (wagon, callback 41)
17:15:33  <planetmaker> repeat that, until the ID of the next type is again the ID of the engine. If so, draw different?
17:15:55  <DJNekkid> i see no callback 41?
17:16:13  <DJNekkid> var2 variable41?
17:16:19  <planetmaker> ah, sorry, varaction2, variable 41. yes
17:16:39  <planetmaker> with some use of the 81/82 magic it might work...
17:16:57  <planetmaker> it will be complicated like hell, though
17:18:32  <DJNekkid> but how do var41 help us?
17:18:35  <DJNekkid> i dont really see that?
17:19:55  <planetmaker> we walk through, to the end of train: length1 = first var41 call. Check next ID. If=engine: change livery of last, if not repeat with var41
17:20:37  <planetmaker> check next ID = check ID of next vehicle after the one we got the number of subsequent entries for
17:20:54  <planetmaker> consider a train: 1 22223322 1 (1 = engine, 2,3=wagons)
17:22:06  <planetmaker> count = length of 1st wagon repetition: var41(2nd entry). --> 4
17:22:38  <planetmaker> check ID of 2+count = 6th entry: --> 3 != 1
17:23:15  <planetmaker> count = length of 6th item repetition: var41(6th entry) --> 2
17:23:39  <planetmaker> check ID of 6+count = 8th entry: --> 2 != 1
17:23:48  <DJNekkid> im not sure if you know how it works...
17:23:53  <planetmaker> count = length of 8th item repetition: var41...
17:23:58  <planetmaker> I'm not sure how it works
17:24:22  <DJNekkid> a similar line from the dutch set
17:24:52  <DJNekkid> -1 * 0  02 00 53 82 41 10 FF 01   52 00 01 \b15  50 00
17:25:10  <DJNekkid> this is a "count number of vehicles in a chain"
17:25:37  <DJNekkid> and in this case: if its between 1 and 15, use sprite 51
17:25:44  <DJNekkid> sorry, 52
17:25:56  <DJNekkid> "if not", use sprite 50
17:29:47  <DJNekkid> did that make any more sense?
17:30:58  <planetmaker> it does. But it does tell me, that there's a solution, albeit lengthy one
17:31:06  <planetmaker> iirc :-)
17:31:22  <planetmaker> one could chain these IFs, could one?
17:31:56  <planetmaker> if a then if b then if c then if d then e else f else g else h else i
17:32:02  <planetmaker> :-P
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17:33:27  <DJNekkid> hmm ...
17:33:38  <DJNekkid> i've done a few, but trust me, i've tried
17:33:51  <DJNekkid> even asked pikka, and he had no solution
17:34:36  <DJNekkid> not that he is god, but still...
17:36:57  <planetmaker> another question:
17:37:22  <planetmaker> can I set in some way explicitly the gfx used for wagon X?
17:37:47  <DJNekkid> for example wagon nr 5?
17:38:25  <DJNekkid> if so, yes ofcourse :)
17:39:42  <DJNekkid> -1 * 0  02 00 xx 81 40 00 FF 01   <gfx> 00 05 05   <gfx2> 00
17:40:25  <DJNekkid> -1 * 0  02 00 xx 81 40 08 FF 01   <gfx> 00 05 05   <gfx2> 00          <-- if you want it to be from behind
17:42:00  <planetmaker> so... basically I only have to find out which wagons need special graphics and call those sprites you just posted, right?
17:42:28  <planetmaker> so, if I could tell you to do that with wagons 9 and 12, we'd be set?
17:42:40  <planetmaker> (as 10 and 11 are engines)?
17:42:50  <DJNekkid> but what if its shorter or longer?
17:43:23  <planetmaker> provided, I find a reliable way to find the positions. 9 and 12 are just examples and by no way fixed :-)
17:43:49  <planetmaker> e.g. need be the result of some checks on the train itself. Some action2s
17:44:22  <DJNekkid> be my guest and try!
17:44:25  <DJNekkid> by all means!
17:44:53  <planetmaker> ok. I have a problem to solve now :-)
17:45:36  <planetmaker> and the first step was: define the problem. We've done that now ;-)
17:47:36  <DJNekkid> im wondering what variable60 can do...
17:47:46  <planetmaker> :) Me, too
17:48:44  <DJNekkid> hmm...
17:48:47  <planetmaker> 7C and 7D might help us, too
17:49:16  <planetmaker> oh yes
17:50:47  <DJNekkid> what?
17:51:27  <planetmaker> I'm just discovering what is available on principle :-)
17:53:33  <DJNekkid> if we had a "next vehicle ID" and a "prev vehicle ID" we would be helped :)
17:56:31  <planetmaker> but I'm sure we can get that.
17:57:00  <planetmaker> I'm just not sure yet, how exactly.
18:02:37  <DJNekkid> hehe
18:04:01  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
18:04:59  <Ammler> if you generate the ID automatically, you will cause uncompatibility for every release
18:05:08  <Ammler> that is the issue of ISR
18:05:48  <DJNekkid> i've never thought we should do that
18:08:43  <planetmaker> with the IDs now stored in ids.pnfo, we can even keep the ID mess we have now
18:09:54  <DJNekkid> i think, for 2.0
18:10:07  <DJNekkid> we ditch the current ID scheme, and make a new much simpler one:
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18:10:45  <DJNekkid> 00-7F (hex) to where its needed to have a ID lower then 80 (i.e. all articulated vehicles)
18:11:20  <DJNekkid> 1000-1999 for wagons
18:11:27  <DJNekkid> 2000-2999 for "generic"
18:11:29  <planetmaker> and then all wagons consecutively, all MU, all metro.
18:11:33  <planetmaker> yeah, like that or so
18:11:45  <DJNekkid> 3000- for steam
18:11:49  <DJNekkid> 4000- for diesel
18:11:59  <DJNekkid> 5000- for electric
18:12:03  <DJNekkid> 6000- MUS
18:12:03  <planetmaker> I wouldn't distinguish that
18:12:11  <DJNekkid> or even 3000 for engines, and 4000 for mus
18:12:12  <planetmaker> that = diesel, electric steam
18:12:19  <planetmaker> yeah
18:13:01  <planetmaker> Even, actually, they need not consecutive IDs. But they may well have :-)
18:13:17  <planetmaker> we could - in principle - just start with ID 256 and be fine counting up
18:13:28  <planetmaker> we don't care about them after all.
18:13:40  <DJNekkid> true...
18:13:55  <Ammler> yes.
18:14:14  <Ammler> then you won't have inconsitent IDs
18:14:35  <DJNekkid> but for the sake of finding the "next available" one, why not have one "type" have one "range" ?
18:14:52  <planetmaker> just using the next in one chain would then be simpler :-P
18:14:59  <planetmaker> instead of two or three :-)
18:15:32  <planetmaker> and it might then even possibly allow TTDP compatibility.
18:15:43  <planetmaker> if we, e.g. start with ID 128.
18:15:51  <Ammler> I wouldn't
18:16:01  <Ammler> just make a special ID file for patch
18:16:18  <planetmaker> Yes. Leaving out by action 9 the high IDs :-)
18:17:28  <DJNekkid> halt a sec ...
18:18:03  <DJNekkid> patch have 116 train IDs
18:18:15  <planetmaker> well, these ID issue is basically a non-issue :-) I don't really care as long as there's some easier way to find the next unused :-)
18:18:17  <DJNekkid> open have "infinate"
18:19:06  <DJNekkid> well, how should we sort "ids.pnfo" ?
18:19:31  <DJNekkid> by ID?
18:19:36  <DJNekkid> by "traintype" ?
18:19:52  <planetmaker> Ascending ID and "traintype" :-)
18:20:03  <planetmaker> basically like what we get with what you proposed first.
18:20:31  <planetmaker> 0-7F=articulated, 500+ = wagons, 1000+=everything else
18:20:50  <planetmaker> that's what I probably would go for, but - as said - I'm fine with anything more consecutive that now
18:20:59  <planetmaker> *than
18:21:10  <DJNekkid> i still think each "type" should be in a range...
18:21:18  <DJNekkid> as MUs would probably be in one list
18:21:24  <DJNekkid> engines in a 2nd, metros in a 3rd
18:21:45  <planetmaker> then it's 1000+=engines, 2000+=MU, 3000+=metro
18:22:00  <DJNekkid> agreed
18:22:05  <planetmaker> but then: the lists in NFO don't care
18:22:21  <planetmaker> it has anyway only ID_ENG_WHATEVER there
18:22:28  <planetmaker> and no one sees the IDs.
18:22:40  <DJNekkid> i know...
18:23:12  <DJNekkid> but, when we in 3 months need to add the "next train", i wont remember what the last one was
18:23:28  <DJNekkid> so i would then go to the particular group, and take the next one from there
18:23:33  <planetmaker> you don't have to. You just open ids.pnfo and add the last line
18:23:38  <planetmaker> no, you wouldn't
18:23:50  <planetmaker> and the 2nd last line would have the highest ID.
18:23:51  <planetmaker> so...
18:24:11  <DJNekkid> but:
18:24:14  <planetmaker> but you would have that in any case
18:24:16  <DJNekkid> then we have the case of the purchase list
18:24:26  <planetmaker> what does the purchase list matter?
18:24:31  <planetmaker> ah... the order?
18:24:35  <DJNekkid> exactly
18:24:38  <planetmaker> oki
18:25:03  <planetmaker> then even steam / diesel / elec like now makes sense
18:25:06  <DJNekkid> it sorts by vehicle ID, unless other is specified
18:26:21  <DJNekkid> and "other" is "regsel.nfo"
18:33:57  <DJNekkid> and if we put the different typen, and even subtypes, in a certain range, dont we have to make that list
18:34:03  <DJNekkid> list = regsel.nfo
18:35:14  <DJNekkid> so, as you might have understood by now, most of my suggestions are from a nfo/ingame point of view
18:35:33  <DJNekkid> while yours often seem to be from a programmers point of view :p
18:44:55  <planetmaker> :-P
18:45:57  <planetmaker> if we don't find a solution to the TGV-wagon-graphics-problem, I think, I would rather go with the graphical glitch than the build hassle.
18:46:48  <DJNekkid> so, 3 mu-wagons? pax,mail,armor?
18:49:45  <planetmaker> I'd say, still, yes.
18:49:50  <planetmaker> :-S
18:50:27  <DJNekkid> well, then we go for that
19:00:23  <Ammler> you could do both :P
19:00:39  <planetmaker> :-P
19:01:01  <planetmaker> wow. 21h and already nearly dark.
19:01:04  <Ammler> well, seriously.
19:01:07  <planetmaker> winter is approaching fast.
19:02:08  <DJNekkid> and im complaining when it's getting dark at 23...?
19:10:25  <DJNekkid> so planetmaker... did u get any wiser?
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19:21:57  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: I might have gotten a bit wiser.
19:22:10  <DJNekkid> anything we can use? :)
19:22:29  <DJNekkid> i mean, it's possible to count the number of engines
19:22:34  <DJNekkid> count the number of wagons
19:22:39  <Ammler> DJNekkid: aren't you in a place, where you have the whole time not darkness?
19:23:23  <DJNekkid> do some math, and find out where the suitable wagon gfx'es should be
19:23:48  <DJNekkid> IF they are clones that are connected
19:23:54  <DJNekkid> and Ammler: i live in norway yes
19:24:09  <DJNekkid> about the 66th degree
19:24:21  <DJNekkid> no, 62
19:24:31  <DJNekkid> 62'28'40
19:24:43  <Ammler> here is 45, iirc
19:25:53  <DJNekkid> but to put it this way, if i , at summer on a saturday go to the pub at 23, and leave at 0330, it is light outside when i both go there and go home :)
19:27:23  <planetmaker> I'm at 52°26'01"N :-)
19:27:58  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: I need to write it down somehow a bit more proper, I guess.
19:29:38  <DJNekkid> got any "coded" ideas?
19:30:35  <planetmaker> -1 * 0 02 00 xx 81 40 00 FF 01 <gfx> 00 05 05 <gfx2> 00 <--- is it possible to replace the xx by a variable?
19:30:56  <DJNekkid> xx is the "cargoID" for that action2
19:31:18  <planetmaker> oh, I thought it was the wagon number to treat.
19:31:27  <DJNekkid> no, that is 05 05
19:31:39  <planetmaker> can that be a variable?
19:31:47  <DJNekkid> not that i know of
19:32:00  <planetmaker> so it'd need to be checked for every wagon?
19:32:03  <DJNekkid> yes
19:32:06  <planetmaker> darn
19:32:10  <DJNekkid> up to atleast 20
19:32:14  <planetmaker> yes
19:32:24  <DJNekkid> or say, 16 or 32
19:32:33  <DJNekkid> that way we can eliminate LOTS of code
19:33:03  <planetmaker> hm, why?
19:33:44  <DJNekkid> its a product of 2
19:34:48  <DJNekkid> thus, we can mask it
19:35:06  <planetmaker> ah
19:35:18  <planetmaker> my general idea currently is something like this:
19:35:27  <planetmaker> get wagon position (var41)
19:35:33  <planetmaker> add +1
19:35:44  <DJNekkid> no, 40
19:35:56  <DJNekkid> :)
19:36:26  <DJNekkid> i _think_
19:37:09  <planetmaker> yes.
19:37:30  <planetmaker> hm, now I need the vehicleID / wagonID checked, for that stored variable :-)
19:38:23  <DJNekkid> i think i see where you are going somehow
19:39:04  <DJNekkid> this is gonne be some insane code!
19:39:18  <DJNekkid> dalestan could hardly read it, if it works
19:39:27  <planetmaker> :-P
19:39:48  <planetmaker> I never said it will be easy or sane ;-)
19:40:13  <DJNekkid> but; that code NEEDS to be done without a "make-system"
19:40:27  <planetmaker> hm?
19:40:30  <DJNekkid> as it most likely will be LOTS of finetuneing ...
19:40:41  <planetmaker> that's plain NFO without add-ons.
19:41:02  <DJNekkid> and code with "simple" renum-encode its virtually instant
19:41:03  <planetmaker> it will be probably so convoluted that no simplification will be possible :-)
19:41:46  <DJNekkid> hehe
19:44:39  <planetmaker> one thing I'm thinking of (as kind of fallback), is an (additional) engine cargo.
19:44:46  <planetmaker> That can be checked easier, I think
19:45:06  <DJNekkid> what do you mean?
19:46:03  <planetmaker> I can check the cargo of a vehicle by var47...
19:46:12  <DJNekkid> sure can
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20:23:59  <DJNekkid> planetmaker
20:24:09  <DJNekkid> why are the comments "scattered" in the new template?
20:24:21  <DJNekkid> i.e.
20:24:32  <DJNekkid> not in a vertical line in the same "paragraph" ?
20:24:58  <planetmaker> it depends upon your tabulator width. It should be made for tab width=8 characters
20:25:04  <planetmaker> oh... template.
20:25:12  <planetmaker> I might have forgotten. I used 4 initially.
20:25:22  <DJNekkid> i've stopped useing tabs...
20:25:29  <DJNekkid> only spaces to "space out"
20:25:29  <planetmaker> :-)
20:25:49  <DJNekkid> as tabs are in general different in different editors
20:26:00  <planetmaker> I like tabs for that... usually one can set the tab size
20:26:21  <planetmaker> but well, you got your answer :-) it was not intention to destroy the comment layout :-)
20:26:35  <planetmaker> and I'm not quite sure what is best.
20:26:42  <planetmaker> If you prefer space - fine
20:26:50  <DJNekkid> dont _really_ matter
20:26:57  <planetmaker> :-)
20:27:03  <DJNekkid> i guess i just have to find the "tab" settings in ps-pad
20:27:16  <planetmaker> yes. it doesn't really matter. That's why spaces is also fine
20:27:31  <planetmaker> tab is just a habit of mine :-)
20:27:42  <DJNekkid> it used to be of mine as well...
20:27:43  <DJNekkid> :)
20:28:36  <DJNekkid> hmm, not that it helped this file... :)
20:28:48  <planetmaker> :-P
20:29:17  <planetmaker> your choice. We just need one decision and then stick to it.
20:29:34  <planetmaker> I don't care either but wasn't sure of what to use :-)
20:29:44  <planetmaker> or didn't think about it.
20:29:48  <DJNekkid> tab=8 then ...
20:30:00  <planetmaker> honestly?
20:31:17  <DJNekkid> SURE!
20:31:19  <DJNekkid> sorry...
20:31:22  <DJNekkid> sure!
20:31:30  <Ammler> :-)
20:35:01  <DJNekkid> well ...
20:35:25  <DJNekkid> i fixed them as far as i could see, so now we are gonna watch an episode of TSCC and sleep at one point
20:36:39  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 263: fixed the out-of-place comments in mu-template @ (by DJNekkid)
20:37:33  <planetmaker> well. Then I say: enjoy and good night! Regards to your wife :-)
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22:00:01  *** Mks has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
22:00:07  *** openttdcoop sets mode: +v Mks
22:00:13  <Mks> how do I report a bug?
22:02:25  <Mks> Camelback Mountain Mining Truck in HEQS set should be 240t not 120t as it is in the new version it was 240t in old tho
22:04:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
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22:05:48  *** openttdcoop sets mode: +v andythenorth
22:33:47  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 515: Changed 737-200 Easyjet png @ (by Frank)
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23:00:25  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 516: Rewritten the A319 nfo, to make adding liveries in easier @ (by Frank)
23:02:13  <Frankr> Ammler: Are you there
23:03:25  <Frankr> planetmaker: Are you there?
23:11:13  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 517: Updated r14 tracking table with more A319 info @ (by Beardie27)
23:11:13  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 518: Merged r517 r516 and r515 @ (by Beardie27)
23:15:55  <Frankr> Mks: Have you reported the bug?
23:15:58  <SmatZ> Mks: I guess
23:16:36  <SmatZ> interesting, hour of silence, and then two people reply independed on each other :-p
23:16:48  <Frankr> lol
23:17:30  <Frankr> planetmaker and Ammler it doesn't matter any more fixed the problem
23:17:48  <SmatZ> hehe ;)
23:18:44  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 519: Renamed A319 AirBerlin's and added A319 China Eastern @ (by Frank)
23:20:35  <Mks> don't know how to report a bug
23:20:50  <SmatZ>
23:20:56  <SmatZ> you have to be registered though
23:21:19  <Mks> well I ain't
23:21:49  <SmatZ> welll
23:22:05  <SmatZ> you see in the right top corner
23:22:08  <SmatZ> "Register"
23:22:11  <SmatZ> use it ;)
23:22:14  <Mks> :P
23:22:34  <Mks> don't wana register at least not right now
23:27:24  <Frankr> wat was the bug then
23:27:30  <Frankr> and i'll post it
23:27:57  <Mks>  Camelback Mountain Mining Truck in HEQS set should be 240t not 120t as it is in the new version it was 240t in old tho
23:28:33  <Mks> if it now isn't changed but it doesn't make sence since that truck is twice as big as its smaller 120t brother
23:29:57  <Frankr> right done
23:30:41  <Frankr> Anything else Mks while i'm at it
23:31:18  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: HEQS Heavy Equipment Set - Bug #509: Camelback Mountain @ (by Frank)
23:43:20  <Frankr> Cya
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