Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 19th September 2009:
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01:33:52  <Brot6> Backup done! (Usage: 98M)
01:33:52  <Brot6> An INK-LING? Sure -- TAKE one!! Did you BUY any COMMUNIST UNIFORMS??
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06:48:51  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 115: Deleted source psd for Medium River Boat @ (by andythenorth)
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07:41:35  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 116: Change: loaded / unloaded states for Medium and Large River Boats @ (by andythenorth)
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08:44:02  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 117: Change: added bow / propellor wash to Large River Boat @ (by andythenorth)
09:14:30  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: Welcome (#23) @ (by planetmaker)
09:17:13  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: Using_a_Makefile (#3) @ (by planetmaker)
09:39:06  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: Welcome (#24) @ (by planetmaker)
09:39:06  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: Welcome (#25) @ (by planetmaker)
09:48:32  <Ammler> planetmaker: nice addition, but I am not sure, if we should mention other licenses than GPL
09:49:05  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: Welcome (#26) @ (by planetmaker)
09:49:27  <Ammler> as the point of the devzone is the hosting of the source. Which you don't with the CC
09:49:39  <Rubidium> modificatsions <- modifications
09:51:07  <planetmaker> thx Rubidium
09:51:29  <planetmaker> Ammler: well, but like OpenSFX there are projects where it is not 100% appropriate. Or possible
09:51:40  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: Welcome (#27) @ (by planetmaker)
09:51:49  <planetmaker> And having a strong recommendation is IMO good enough
09:51:58  <planetmaker> And anyone using the makefile of mine has to ;-)
09:52:01  <Ammler> ok :-)
09:53:03  <Ammler> maybe we should mention, that the source hosted on the devzone is public. (always)
09:53:22  <planetmaker> hm. why?
09:53:23  <Ammler> also if you would make the project itself private
09:53:41  <planetmaker> can people other than admins create private projects?
09:54:00  <Ammler> afaik, it is possible
09:54:11  <planetmaker> hm, right. Even private projects have public repos, right?
09:54:33  <Ammler> the repos aren't directly connected.
09:55:15  <Ammler> well, theoretically, that could change with the mercurial-server
09:55:39  <planetmaker> hm. well. I don't care much about that :-)
09:56:06  <Ammler> I am not very interested on hosting private repos, except ours.
09:56:13  <planetmaker> if you want secret stuff... ^^
09:56:27  <Ammler> "... except ours"
09:56:35  <planetmaker> it's a do-it-yourself and don't have others do the admin work for you ;-)
09:56:39  <planetmaker> Or pay us ;-)
09:57:01  <Ammler> oh, if we ever will have a nice plugin for redmine ;-)
09:57:38  <Ammler> As far I read in #openttd, TB doesn't like it.
09:57:47  <planetmaker> that's what I understood, too
09:58:02  <planetmaker> even though, he uses it (currently afaik at least) for opendune
09:58:44  <planetmaker> <-- very much looks like ;-)
09:58:45  <Webster> Title: OpenDUNE - MainPage - OpenDUNE (at
09:59:06  <Ammler> for him, it would rock, if bitbucket would make its portal opensource.
10:00:23  <Ammler> but it looks more he is moving away...
10:00:38  <Ammler> tracker, wiki, forum isn't there :-)
10:00:56  <planetmaker> yeah. I didn't look in detail there yet
10:05:24  <Ammler> oh well, xaroth doesn't like it...
10:06:01  <Ammler> oh, they have releases...
10:09:41  <planetmaker> apropos 2cctrainset v2: should I create a new, virgin repo for that?
10:09:58  <planetmaker> or should we somehow make it a sub-project of the existing one?
10:10:09  <planetmaker> all shiny new would be easier, I guess.
10:10:36  <Ammler> repo and project?
10:12:07  <planetmaker> yep
10:12:29  <planetmaker> kinda leaving all those birth problems of a learning-curve newgrf behind ;-)
10:12:38  <planetmaker> the source is... scary ;-)
10:14:59  <Ammler> personally, I don't dropping the history.
10:15:05  <Ammler> like*
10:15:25  <planetmaker> well. It'd be something different, like NARS1 and NARS2
10:15:36  <planetmaker> with different grfID
10:16:13  <Ammler> and I don't think, our commit messages will improve much, specially those from djn ;-)
10:16:20  <planetmaker> haha :-)
10:16:26  <planetmaker> That I don't believe either
10:16:53  <planetmaker> The main point, though, is that there's a big mess with the vehicle IDs, all scattered over 10k
10:17:19  <planetmaker> and the code doesn't follow any coding style, but is hacked in, differently at different places as I see it
10:17:34  <planetmaker> and the fixing of vehicle IDs needs a new grfid
10:18:13  <Ammler> don't get me wrong, I am not against new repo/project, well I couldn't anyway :-)
10:18:25  <Ammler> I think that is up2you&djn
10:18:45  <planetmaker> :-) well. But I'm asking for the exact reason: feedback and your opinion
10:19:12  <Ammler> NARS2 did also use new sprites...
10:19:23  <planetmaker> 2ccv2 will also. At least in parts
10:19:25  <Ammler> that isn't much the case in 2cc, is it?
10:19:52  <planetmaker> but probably to a much lesser extend than nars1/2
10:21:51  <Ammler> so a new project with id 2cc2 :-)
10:22:32  <planetmaker> :-)
10:22:44  <planetmaker> that's what I'd chose, yes
10:22:49  <planetmaker> whether new project or not
10:23:30  <Ammler> hmm, you could assign all open issues to version 1.0.2/1.1
10:24:00  <Ammler> doesn't mean, they need to be released.
10:24:09  <planetmaker> :-)
10:24:32  <planetmaker> well... doesn't mean they don't get released. But... I guess DJN lost interest a bit in v1.
10:24:39  <planetmaker> and now wants to do it properly
10:40:25  <Ammler> ah, opendune does need dune2
10:48:37  <Ammler> is opendune that much bigger then openttd?
10:58:39  <planetmaker> probably not
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10:59:03  <planetmaker> what's your definition of "bigger" and what are you referring to, if you talk about size(s)
10:59:27  <Ammler> well, the reason, they "trashed" redmine is the memory usage
10:59:54  <Ammler> ruby uses around 2& here if someone is browsing
11:00:10  <planetmaker> ah
11:00:12  <Ammler> if it is ideling, it is <1%
11:00:39  <jonty-comp> bah, my warehouse rails app uses about 15% of my memory at idle :P
11:00:49  <jonty-comp> but this VPS only has 384MB RAM
11:01:02  <jonty-comp> I might install redmine
11:01:18  <jonty-comp> it would make more sense than having warehouse and mediawiki and whatever all separate
11:12:27  <Rubidium> noai's redmine uses 170 MB
11:12:47  <Rubidium> well, mongrel_rails which I assume is redmine
11:14:42  <Rubidium> which I have to agree is a lot of memory
11:14:45  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenDUNE - Revision 74: [LibEMU] -Fix: obey mouse region restrictions @ (by truebrain)
11:14:45  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenDUNE - Revision 75: [JIT] -Add: mapped another 89 functions (mostly gameplay) @ (by truebrain)
11:14:45  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenDUNE - Revision 76: -Add (r75): the decompiled code reflecting latest JIT data @ (by truebrain)
11:25:10  <Ammler> ups
11:26:50  <planetmaker> he... since when do we have this here? :-)
11:28:52  <Rubidium> not more than 14 days
11:31:21  <planetmaker> so much is sure, yes
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11:41:31  <Ammler> planetmaker: we don't
11:41:54  <Ammler> I just connected to the svn to reproduce those mem leaks they have...
11:42:30  <Ammler> mem usage was once at 8% but goes back again...
11:43:21  <Ammler> I assume, the issues are more with lightpd
11:46:52  <jonty-comp> lighttpd took me ages to get working properly with rails
11:52:21  <Ammler> Rubidium: catcodec is the first rpm, which worked on every distro on the suse farm :-P
11:53:14  <Ammler>
11:57:35  <Rubidium> why is the url osfx's?
11:57:55  <Ammler> ups
11:58:29  <Ammler> oh, some copy&paste issues :'-(
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11:59:58  <Ammler> the other issue is, suse compile farm does completely replace the revision tag.
12:00:35  <Ammler> I need to append "alpha2" to version, where "-" isn't allowed.
12:04:13  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 118: Change bow / prop wash for Small River Boat @ (by andythenorth)
12:04:21  <Ammler>
12:04:22  <Webster> Title: Index of /repositories/home:/ammler/openSUSE_11.1/i586 (at
12:07:04  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 119: Change: improved bow / prop wash for River Boats @ (by andythenorth)
12:12:59  <Ammler> Rubidium: where shall I link it?
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12:26:41  <Rubidium> catcodec download page?
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12:38:54  <Ammler>
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12:55:18  <Rubidium> without the /en/ though
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14:09:48  <DJNekkid> my god, my head hurts
14:10:56  <Rubidium> tip: do not do whatever you did to get that head ache again
14:11:24  <DJNekkid> i blame beer!
14:11:49  <Ammler> that is what you should do after sleep again :-P
14:11:51  <DJNekkid> but ... beer is tasty!
14:12:43  <Rubidium> Ammler: go to your electronic banking thingy and wire some money to my bank account?
14:12:55  <DJNekkid> lol
14:13:35  <Ammler> again?
14:14:20  <Ammler> DJNekkid: what kind of beer do you have in norway, like english or german?
14:15:12  <DJNekkid> good question ... we have lots of norwegian beer obviously ... and also lots of foreign "famous" beer thats produced on license...
14:15:44  <DJNekkid> and ofcourse their imported more expensive counterparts
14:15:53  <DJNekkid> not too much german tho i think ...
14:16:02  <Ammler> hmm, I meant more how does the country beer taste...
14:16:10  <planetmaker> is there anything like cheap beer in Norway or whole Scandinavia for that matter?
14:16:17  <DJNekkid> sure...
14:16:23  <DJNekkid> whatever cheap is ...
14:16:28  <planetmaker> :-)
14:16:31  <planetmaker> 60ct a bottle
14:16:36  <planetmaker> na, less
14:16:50  <Ammler> bottle is half a litre?
14:16:59  <DJNekkid> bottle = 0.33l
14:17:02  <planetmaker> depends. 0.33 or 0.5
14:17:03  <DJNekkid> atleast here
14:17:19  <Ammler> here it is 0.5 or >
14:17:19  <DJNekkid> we have some that costs 10 or 11,-
14:17:34  <DJNekkid> thats like 1
14:17:46  <DJNekkid> thats cheap :)
14:18:00  <planetmaker> for a 0.33 bottle? hell, no, that's not cheap :-)
14:18:01  <Ammler> well, you pay that in stores?
14:18:10  <DJNekkid> we pay that in stores, for the cheap ones
14:18:17  <planetmaker> sure, that's what I'm talking about
14:18:34  <DJNekkid> an ok half litre on can is about 25kr ...
14:18:39  <DJNekkid> 2,50
14:18:50  <Ammler> 1€ for a bottle here
14:18:58  <Rubidium> Lidl/Aldi beer: 20 cents/30 cl; 'normal' stores more towards the 30-40 cents/30 cl (cents as in eurocents)
14:19:15  <DJNekkid> imported bottles (heineken, carlsberg and such) are around 20kr ...
14:19:43  <Rubidium> so 2-3.5 Norwegian kroner
14:20:50  <DJNekkid> hehe!
14:20:59  <DJNekkid> well, lots of this price is taxes tho...
14:21:19  <DJNekkid> light beer (not taxed for alco content) cost around 3-4kr a bottle
14:21:32  <planetmaker> hm... 12€ for 20 bottles or so is what you get here.
14:21:35  <Rubidium> Heineken costs ~4kr here
14:21:44  <Rubidium> per 30 cl bottle
14:21:48  <DJNekkid> imported or license?
14:21:58  <DJNekkid> unless you are in holland :)
14:22:46  <Rubidium> yeah, I'm in the NL
14:23:03  <Rubidium> although Warsteiner costs roughly the same, which is German (AFAIK)
14:23:27  <DJNekkid> hehe!
14:23:41  <DJNekkid> good thing we earn more then you guys :p
14:24:29  <planetmaker> yeah, Warsteiner is somewhere from this country
14:24:46  <DJNekkid> i have 180kr/hr as (roughly) an electrician
14:24:46  <Ammler> DJNekkid: you get more ;-)
14:24:57  <Ammler> !=earn
14:25:04  <DJNekkid> aprox 20e/hr
14:25:15  <Rubidium> DJNekkid: but let us compensate for the higher prices
14:25:28  <DJNekkid> hehe...
14:25:47  <Rubidium> BMI (Big Mac Index): Norway 5.79, Eurozone 4.38
14:25:48  <Ammler> well, you are a oil country :-P
14:26:18  <Rubidium> GDP per capita (IMF 2008): Norway 53,451, NL: 40,431
14:26:33  <Ammler> CH?
14:26:58  <DJNekkid> what currency is that Rubidium?
14:27:20  <Rubidium> DJNekkid: USD
14:27:25  <DJNekkid> oki
14:27:51  <Rubidium> anyhow, in Norway you can by 9247 Big Macs, in the NL 9231. Not much of a difference :)
14:28:06  <DJNekkid> hehe...
14:28:31  <DJNekkid> well, the nice thing with norwegian alco price politics, when we get abroad, its so incredibly cheap :)
14:28:34  <Rubidium> Ammler: CH BMI 5.60, GDP per capita 42,783
14:28:51  <DJNekkid> pub-prices are just above store-prices here
14:29:23  <Rubidium> oh shoot... I made a typo in my calc sheet
14:29:48  <Rubidium> 9232 Big Macs in Norway, 9231 in the Netherlands
14:29:57  <DJNekkid> lol!
14:30:02  <Rubidium> 7639 big macs in CH though
14:30:11  <DJNekkid> i can get more bigmacs then you! ha ha ha! :p
14:30:23  <Ammler> :'-(
14:30:34  <DJNekkid> but, you can get more beer then me :(
14:31:25  <Ammler> for me that wouldn't matter anymore.
14:31:38  <Rubidium>
14:33:51  <Ammler> Hirundo: /msg *status connect
14:35:26  <Hirundo> Ammler: what does that command do?
14:35:39  <Ammler> reconnect, change hostmask
14:35:45  <Ammler> -mask
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14:37:10  <Rubidium> no... no more Ammler highlighting...
14:37:21  <Ammler> yeah :-D
14:37:53  <Ammler> get rid of all links....
14:40:39  <planetmaker> Hirundo: long time no seen :-)
14:40:44  <planetmaker> I hope you had a good time?
14:41:01  <Ammler> started college, iirc :-)
14:41:07  <Hirundo> I've started at university this year ^^
14:41:14  <planetmaker> aye :-)
14:41:23  <planetmaker> what did you start where?
14:41:29  <Hirundo> At the same time moved to a new room, bought a notebook
14:41:47  <planetmaker> he... many changes.
14:42:02  <Hirundo> Only now I have installed IRC/mercurial/MSVC etc
14:42:20  <planetmaker> :-)
14:42:35  <Hirundo> I'm doing mechanical engineering or whatever it's called in english, studying in enschede
14:43:04  <planetmaker> do you mean something like building machinery or rather building bridges?
14:43:12  <Hirundo> building machinery
14:43:28  <planetmaker> :-) should be mechanical engineering then, I guess.
14:43:34  <Hirundo> i.e. big equipment that contains loads of steel :P
14:44:21  <planetmaker> haha :-)
14:44:35  <planetmaker> so I'll start blaming you, if steel and other metal prices go up
14:44:45  <DJNekkid> *when
14:45:01  <Ammler> isn't it already?
14:45:02  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: they did already again.
14:45:28  <planetmaker> like 100% increase since the down-turn at around late last year
14:48:33  <Hirundo> 159 trunk revs to merge... agin
14:48:54  <Hirundo> can't they halt developement out there ;)
14:48:56  <planetmaker> yeah... sorry... busy busy here
14:49:09  <Rubidium> Hirundo: OTTD trunk?
14:49:13  <DJNekkid> HMM
14:49:22  <DJNekkid> what more could i do in that excel-sheet :)
14:49:22  <Hirundo> yes
14:51:12  <Rubidium> but but... we do halt development... every day the 30 minutes around the nightly... more or less
14:51:19  <Rubidium> and the nights kinda halt development too
14:51:32  <planetmaker> you actually sleep?!
14:51:34  <Ammler> would it help, if the devzone would automatically update daily and complain if the merge doesn't work anymore?
14:51:42  <planetmaker> Ammler: no
14:52:53  <Ammler> belugans,petern and glx are quite silent.
14:53:17  <planetmaker> I think it wouldn't solve anything.
14:57:54  <Hirundo> not really, the merging itself is the easy part
14:58:41  <planetmaker> the testing and updating is the hard stuff ;-)
15:00:34  <DJNekkid> hmm ...
15:01:21  <DJNekkid> tr --help
15:01:37  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: ?
15:02:07  <DJNekkid> shouldnt "tr -s \t \b <test.txt >test2.txt" remove all "tabs" +
15:02:45  <DJNekkid> ?
15:03:13  <planetmaker> and replace by blank as I understand it.
15:03:40  <DJNekkid> it removes the tabs alright, but it adds a "-"
15:03:41  <planetmaker> hm, no. backspace
15:04:27  <Ammler> what is \b?
15:04:39  <DJNekkid> "backspace"
15:04:45  <Ammler> he
15:05:01  <Ammler> replace it by ''
15:11:28  <DJNekkid> i guess i gotta do that manually then...
15:12:09  <DJNekkid> but how can i make a "bat" file for you guys? pretty much the same, just .sh ?
15:13:00  <Ammler> DJNekkid: did you try with empty string?
15:13:13  <DJNekkid> ehm, no :)
15:13:26  <Ammler> [17:05] <Ammler> replace it by ''
15:13:47  <Ammler> that is '    ' just without space :-)
15:14:23  <Ammler> why do you need to remove tabs?
15:14:42  <DJNekkid> "next cell" is counted as a tab
15:15:08  <Ammler> yes, and that is bad?
15:15:21  <DJNekkid> sometimes ...
15:15:34  <Ammler> then but those in the same cell
15:15:37  <DJNekkid> when i want a \b<value> it turns to \b<tab><value>
15:15:53  <DJNekkid> #define XXX_YEAR \w	1997	-1-1
15:16:04  <DJNekkid> thoose squares (in my client) is tabs
15:16:11  <Ammler> yes, merge those things in exel
15:17:33  <DJNekkid> "when not truncating set1, string2 must be non-empty"
15:18:00  <DJNekkid> Ammler: im not sure that is actually possible?
15:18:06  <Ammler> that is for sure.
15:18:19  <Ammler> excel can do everything
15:18:39  <Ammler> as I said, you might be able to code the whole set with it :-P
15:18:45  <DJNekkid> up :)
15:18:48  <DJNekkid> yup
15:19:00  <Ammler> planetmaker: is a excel specialist.
15:19:43  <Ammler> oh, do you have openoffice on your pc?
15:19:51  <Rubidium> nah, he only excels in excelling in excellence
15:20:04  <Ammler> those files could maybe parsed directly.
15:21:01  <DJNekkid> well i've tried, and ive had a hard time to try to merge text and "cell"
15:21:38  <planetmaker> Ammler: I only use OpenOffice
15:21:39  <Ammler> something like concat(a1,b1) doesn't work?
15:22:00  <Ammler> or =a1 & b1 maybe...
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15:22:06  <Ammler> I would need to try
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15:22:27  <Hirundo> Merge completed
15:22:33  <Ammler> planetmaker: does it matter?
15:22:34  <DJNekkid> now that actually worked!
15:22:39  <DJNekkid> =AJ14&AI14
15:22:59  <Rubidium> anyhow, if you don't like much commits a week, track /branches/0.7 instead of /trunk :)
15:23:27  <DJNekkid> but now Ammler, what if i want to replace one of thoose cells with "pure text" ?
15:23:49  <Ammler> Rubidium: just the question, how easy it will be to jump from 0.7 to 0.8
15:23:54  <Brot6> feed DevZone had 12 updates, showing the latest 10
15:23:54  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 13348: (svn r17572) -Codechange: Use the Window::GetWidget() fu... @ (by alberth)
15:23:54  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 13349: (svn r17573) -Codechange: NWID_SELECTION containers have... @ (by alberth)
15:23:54  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 13350: (svn r17574) -Fix (r17573): Insert NWID_SELECTION in nes... @ (by alberth)
15:23:58  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 13351: (svn r17575) -Codechange: Adding a new combined button+d... @ (by alberth)
15:24:02  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 13352: (svn r17576) -Fix [FS#3208]: assertion triggered when th... @ (by Rubidium)
15:24:06  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 13353: (svn r17577) -Codechange: Order window uses pure nested ... @ (by alberth)
15:24:10  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 13354: (svn r17578) -Fix (r17572): Some compilers don't like de... @ (by alberth)
15:24:14  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenDUNE - Revision 77: -Codechange: minor layout in mouse code @ (by truebrain)
15:24:17  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 13355: Merge: trunk up to r17578 @ (by Hirundo)
15:24:18  <Ammler> mäh, I should really make the hook.
15:24:20  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenDUNE - Revision 78: -Add: converted a small snippet of the input handler @ (by truebrain)
15:24:28  <DJNekkid> im gonna ignore brot6 for a while :)
15:24:39  <Ammler> :-)
15:24:57  <Ammler> maybe 10 is a bit high
15:25:02  <Rubidium> and it's already outdated :)
15:26:50  <Ammler> well, it isn't possible to have it public but hide it.
15:27:25  <Ammler> oh, you meant, Hirundo's merge is outdated :-)
15:28:31  <DJNekkid> but Ammler, any chance you find a "#define blabla \w<point-at-a-cell" ?
15:28:53  <DJNekkid> or ... i could ...
15:28:55  <DJNekkid> damn!
15:28:57  <DJNekkid> i could!
15:29:13  <Ammler> yes.
15:29:39  <Ammler> a1=#define blabla \w / b1=<point at a cell>
15:29:44  <Ammler> =a1&b1
15:30:23  <DJNekkid> well, thats not what i ment, but i think i just came up with an even better idea
15:30:23  <Ammler> well, #define and \w isn0t in A1
15:31:08  <DJNekkid> but as i saied, i came up with an even better idea...
15:31:15  <DJNekkid> now i dont have to replace the xxx'es
15:31:24  <DJNekkid> i'll show you in a few minutes
15:31:47  <Ammler> try to avoid redundancy and it will automatically be better :-P
15:33:11  <DJNekkid> yea
15:33:16  <DJNekkid> but damn, this works GREAT!
15:36:59  <DJNekkid> have a look now ammler, in the 2cc files
15:37:25  <Ammler> lunchy time :-P
15:37:28  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenDUNE - Revision 79: -Add: introduce 'bool' to make the goal of functions more clear, and fix ... @ (by truebrain)
15:37:28  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 13356: [IS] Codechange: Use Window::GetWidget instead of direct... @ (by Hirundo)
15:37:28  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - 2cc-2.0.xls @ (by DJNekkid)
15:38:52  <Ammler> but looks indeed nice
15:39:03  <DJNekkid> hehe!
15:39:05  <Ammler> now, think about, how to parse it :-P
15:39:40  <Rubidium> hmm, making xls files as source?
15:39:57  <Ammler> well, it is already
15:40:10  <Ammler> the source for the properities
15:40:47  <Rubidium> yes-ish, but looks like DJNekkid wants to automatically generate nfo-ish out of the xls sheet
15:40:48  <Ammler> hmm, excel files are binary
15:41:01  <Rubidium> Ammler: no kidding :)
15:41:08  <Ammler> :-)
15:41:11  <Rubidium> good luck finding out what he changed
15:41:29  <DJNekkid> Rubidium: not autogenerating ... i still need to copy/paste :p
15:48:59  <DJNekkid> are there any way to devide something, but end up with a whole number?
15:49:26  <DJNekkid> for example, 50/3 = 16,67, but i want 0 places behind the ,
15:51:39  <Ammler> round :-P
15:51:52  <Ammler> just think and use the help :-P
15:52:31  <planetmaker> but indeed a diff for a binary file is next to worthless.
15:52:56  <Ammler> well, couldn't you use openoffice and disable the compression?
15:53:05  <DJNekkid> i am useing openoffice ...
15:53:13  <planetmaker> maybe one could
15:53:23  <Ammler> :-)
15:54:02  <Ammler> DJNekkid: and why do you save as xls?
15:54:23  <DJNekkid> just because! :p
15:54:29  <Ammler> well, the ods is also binary.
15:54:37  <Ammler> it would need something uncompressed.
15:54:49  <DJNekkid> i dunno, it were xls when i started, and has continued
15:56:04  <DJNekkid> i _could_ save a html as well ?
15:56:28  <planetmaker> well. Any text format is better than a binary spreadsheet
15:56:37  <planetmaker> I'd prefer csv, though
15:56:53  <planetmaker> if it's possible
15:57:53  <planetmaker> xls can be read by probably 95% of the people, odc maybe 50%(?) and csv by 100% :-)
15:58:08  <DJNekkid> eek! completely free of formatting!
15:59:23  <planetmaker> and 100% trackable of what changed
16:00:01  <DJNekkid> well, the a0s.pnfo will still be diffable ... ?
16:00:02  <Ammler> well, on csv you will lose some formating
16:00:08  <planetmaker> given your commit messages it's a clear bonus ;-)
16:00:37  <Ammler> I would make a uncompressed ods document, if possible.
16:01:02  <planetmaker> Ammler: not sure whether it's easily feasable...
16:01:24  <Ammler> yes, I have no clue, bu I wonder :-)
16:01:31  <Ammler> but*
16:03:00  <planetmaker> what is it actually which you now (want) to store in the odc / xls / whatever file?
16:03:18  <DJNekkid> engine stats
16:03:30  <DJNekkid> actually, it were ammlers idea about a week ago
16:03:47  <planetmaker> ok. And what's wrong with a simple list which then can be saved as cvs?
16:04:05  <planetmaker> like the author list of who did what in opengfx?
16:04:12  <Ammler> my idea?
16:04:32  <DJNekkid> yes Ammler... your idea :)
16:04:32  <Ammler> I was more joking...
16:04:39  <planetmaker> that's something which actually *could* be processed directly from the cvs.
16:04:45  <Ammler> as I said, code the whole set with excel :-P
16:04:46  <planetmaker> into the (p)nfo
16:05:07  <planetmaker> I'm honestly not happy with having primary source in xls or odc format
16:05:10  <DJNekkid> remember the "bulk change" talk?
16:05:16  <planetmaker> yes, I do.
16:05:22  <planetmaker> But doesn't change my position :-)
16:05:32  <planetmaker> cvs is still fine for that.
16:05:45  <Ammler> planetmaker: it is for 2cc v1
16:05:51  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenDUNE - Revision 80: [LibEMU] -Add: a better timer for Windows (glx) @ (by truebrain)
16:05:51  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 13357: [IS] Codechange: Use SetStringParameters instead of Draw... @ (by Hirundo)
16:05:52  <planetmaker> If it's the only place to modify those things...
16:05:59  <planetmaker> oh? I thought you planned v2 :-)
16:06:05  <Ammler> no
16:06:05  <DJNekkid> i am
16:06:10  <planetmaker> :-D
16:06:23  <Ammler> I meant, v1 has a excel file too
16:06:37  <planetmaker> yes. Doesn't make it the best of choices, though
16:07:07  <planetmaker> hm... the longer I think of it, the better I like the cvs idea
16:07:25  <planetmaker> pro: you can edit vehicle stats in a spreadsheet and adjust them nicely that way
16:07:44  <planetmaker> pro: you could then post-process the thing in order to generate the action 0s from the saved cvs
16:07:51  <Ammler> it should be somehow parseable
16:07:53  <planetmaker> con: the spreadsheet will look... very basic
16:07:58  <Ammler> maybe a nice awk script
16:07:59  <planetmaker> cvs is parsable
16:08:23  <planetmaker> at least in principle :-)
16:08:39  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: my idea were to just copy/paste an area from the spreadsheet into a file, and use "tr" to exchange ,'s to "newlines"
16:08:40  <Ammler> hmm, but awk is not in the default msys
16:09:01  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: that's more error prone than a script. And you'd need to do it for every change
16:09:09  <planetmaker> and then you forget, or mis-paste and stuff
16:09:15  <Ammler> and you couldn't track the changes
16:09:26  <planetmaker> and we're then there where we're now: at a stage where the source differs from the tracking table
16:09:52  <Ammler> using excel is only an alternative, if we could save it in a textformat
16:10:06  <planetmaker> and cannot be changed as changed vehicle IDs would make stuff incompatible.
16:10:42  <planetmaker> hm...
16:14:34  <planetmaker> cvs doesn't store foruma, does it?
16:14:40  <planetmaker> *csv
16:18:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: no commit since last failed compile, compile skipped (r268)
16:18:03  <Brot6> firs: nightly compile not needed. (r217)
16:18:04  <Brot6> fish: update from r111 to r119, starting nightly compile
16:18:23  <Brot6> fish: compile done (1 errors) -
16:18:23  <Brot6> heqs: nightly compile not needed. (r169)
16:18:23  <Brot6> nmts: nightly compile not needed. (r14)
16:18:23  <Brot6> opengfx: nightly compile not needed. (r200)
16:18:24  <Brot6> opensfx: nightly compile not needed. (r41)
16:18:25  <Brot6> worldairlineset: nightly compile not needed. (r538)
16:24:11  <DJNekkid> *sigh*
16:30:21  <planetmaker> Hm... I don't find an easy format
16:31:20  <planetmaker> hm... best I can propose is to have a <whatever> spreadsheet and save that as csv and have that than processed into the action 0s.
16:31:51  <planetmaker> but have a "normal" spreadsheet as "source" which then is saved over the csv when changes are made.
16:32:33  <planetmaker> e.g. it would mean to have the thing twice: once in a nicer format which is edited.
16:32:47  <planetmaker> and once in the csv format which then is translated into the action0
16:33:11  <planetmaker> and the csv is never edited directly but always is a result of saving the nicer formatted spreadsheet
16:34:06  <planetmaker> in principle this could be avoided by using XML as file format. But I definitely don't feel like writing a XML parser
16:34:45  <DJNekkid> hehe
16:35:08  <DJNekkid> i still need to find out how do devide stuff with 0 comma-spaces
16:35:27  <planetmaker> well. What I propose is to have a "normal" spreadsheet
16:35:36  <planetmaker> nothing needs to be divided there by commata.
16:35:46  <planetmaker> just everything in its own column and row
16:36:27  <planetmaker> like MyTrainName MyEngineID MyRailType MyBaseCost MyCost MyCapacity MyIntroDate ...
16:36:37  <planetmaker> one line per engine. Each with the same order for things.
16:37:20  <planetmaker> that can be easily converted to a csv by your spreadsheet programme of choice to a csv
16:37:44  <planetmaker> the csv will, though, forget about formula which you use in the spreadsheet.
16:37:45  <DJNekkid> im not sure if you know this, but there are things calculated there as well, P-cost and Rcost amongst other things...
16:37:55  <planetmaker> that's why we need it twice.
16:38:02  <planetmaker> also in the "normal" spreadsheet format
16:38:18  <planetmaker> yes, I know
16:38:39  <planetmaker> otherwise there'd be no point for using such programme in the first place
16:38:49  <DJNekkid> aye
16:39:29  <planetmaker> hm...
16:39:33  * planetmaker wonders
16:39:38  <DJNekkid> about what?
16:39:46  <planetmaker> couldn't that be done via macros in the source? ;-)
16:40:13  <planetmaker> what things actually need calculation and in what way?
16:40:58  <DJNekkid> Rcost, Pcost, TE-number, mail and armor capacity
16:41:20  <planetmaker> cool OpenOffice crashed on 2cctrainset's tracking table
16:41:34  <DJNekkid> i use openoffice :)
16:41:41  <planetmaker> and in what way are they calculated?
16:41:59  <DJNekkid> TE:
16:41:59  <DJNekkid> =(L14/((P14*9,8)))*255
16:42:11  <DJNekkid> and the costs ...
16:42:25  <DJNekkid> =(HVIS(G14=J;J;1))*(HVIS(K;K;1))*(HVIS(G14=M;M;1))*(HVIS(H14=E;E;1))*(HVIS(H14=G;G;1))*(((SUMMER(AD14:AI14))^$V)*3)
16:42:29  <DJNekkid> hvis = norwegian for "if"
16:42:44  <planetmaker> err...
16:42:54  <planetmaker> well. can you translate to something understandable?
16:43:16  <planetmaker> obviously I don't have the sheet at my eyes' disposal...
16:43:30  <DJNekkid> hehe
16:44:06  <DJNekkid> the IF's are if what kind of train it is, and what traction it use
16:44:58  <DJNekkid> the summerizeing is it sum up some numbers...
16:45:22  <DJNekkid> basicly, what speed, what HP, etc ...
16:45:42  <planetmaker> well. The question is: is that needed in the tracking sheet or can it be done by the pre-processor and by means of macros?
16:46:00  <planetmaker> basically, they're calculated from other action0 properties, right?
16:46:11  <DJNekkid> right
16:46:46  <planetmaker> so... basically that calculation could be done by the makefile, too, right?
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16:46:58  <DJNekkid> probably
16:47:15  <planetmaker> but it would look... funky for nfo:
16:47:46  <planetmaker> action("Name",rail-type,base-cost,run-cost,...)
16:47:57  <planetmaker> instead of -01 * 00 ...
16:48:23  <planetmaker> It would mean to take it to a level nearly like Yorick implemented some stuff for WAS...
16:48:35  <DJNekkid> well, not entierly ...
16:48:55  <DJNekkid> my plan were to use the templates, and on top it have something similar as it already have
16:49:09  <DJNekkid> define THIS_ENGINE_HP nnn_HP
16:49:19  <DJNekkid> define THIS_ENGINE_TE nnn_TE
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16:49:36  <DJNekkid> and then do a ctrl-h and replace all nnn with, for example, ICE3
16:49:39  <planetmaker> sure v2 should be nicely template-ized.
16:49:52  <DJNekkid> my wife gives her regards :)
16:50:02  <planetmaker> :-) thx. Give here mine :-)
16:50:30  <planetmaker> but the #define THIS_ENINGE_HP nn_HP
16:50:34  <Audigex> tell your wife i said hi too
16:50:40  <Audigex> *your'
16:51:07  <Audigex> I guess I should put *I,*Tell and *too. in there aswell, if I'm being all grammar-nazi :p
16:51:15  <planetmaker> doesn't exclude the use of a macro like Action0("TrainName",THIS_ENGINE_RAIL_TYPE,THIS_ENGINE_TE,...)
16:51:21  <planetmaker> not at all actually.
16:51:33  <planetmaker> hm... actually. It would be easier then ;-)
16:51:44  <planetmaker> no need to define the derived values then.
16:52:04  <planetmaker> maybe we should then really pull of the thing like that
16:52:51  <planetmaker> ok... but still then, the tracking table might be completely out-of-sync with the (pasted) templates
16:53:42  <planetmaker> so... still saving (additionally) the tracking table as csv and having the #define THIS_ENGINE... or rather generated from it... hm...
16:53:45  <planetmaker> difficult
16:54:05  <planetmaker> Mind, that I'm just thinking aloud
17:00:24  <DJNekkid> but now, its a footballmatch ...
17:00:27  <DJNekkid> tty 2morrow :)
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17:13:03  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenDUNE - Revision 81: -Codechange: put variables from memory in a struct, for easy naming and r... @ (by truebrain)
17:13:03  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenDUNE - Revision 82: -Codechange: a bit of renaming, making functions static, fixing coding-st... @ (by truebrain)
17:13:03  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenDUNE - Revision 83: -Fix: MSVC compatibility and project update (glx) @ (by truebrain)
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17:26:02  <Ammler> ok, disable dune for now :-)
17:29:51  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: Welcome (#27) @ (by planetmaker)
17:29:51  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 13347: (svn r17571) -Fix [FS#3213] (r17569): town view didn't s... @ (by Rubidium)
17:29:51  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 13348: (svn r17572) -Codechange: Use the Window::GetWidget() fu... @ (by alberth)
17:29:52  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 13349: (svn r17573) -Codechange: NWID_SELECTION containers have... @ (by alberth)
17:29:56  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 118: Change bow / prop wash for Small River Boat @ (by andythenorth)
17:29:59  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 119: Change: improved bow / prop wash for River Boats @ (by andythenorth)
17:30:05  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Revision 13350: (svn r17574) -Fix (r17573): Insert NWID_SELECTION in nes... @ (by alberth)
17:43:34  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 120: Change: graphical tweaks to Small Coaster @ (by andythenorth)
17:52:38  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 121: Change: graphical tweaks to Medium Coaster @ (by andythenorth)
18:00:51  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 122: Change: graphical tweaks to Large Coaster @ (by andythenorth)
18:04:05  <Brot6> is2: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
18:11:20  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 123: Change: graphical tweaks to Small River Boat @ (by andythenorth)
18:15:09  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 124: Change: graphical tweaks to Large RiverBoat @ (by andythenorth)
18:15:09  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 125: Change: graphical tweaks to Large RiverBoat @ (by andythenorth)
18:35:20  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 126: Change: renamed a bunch of psds to make them easier to work with on the file... @ (by andythenorth)
18:35:20  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 127: Add: source file for Paddle Steamer @ (by andythenorth)
18:35:20  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 128: Change: fixed silly mistake in naming of layers in Small Coaster source @ (by andythenorth)
18:53:38  <DJNekkid> yea! we won 3-0 over one of the better teams in norway, and this victory most likely is one of the most important ones to renew our top-league contract this year...
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20:05:26  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 129: Change: some experiments with cargo graphics support on Small Coaster @ (by andythenorth)
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23:01:01  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 130: Add: source psd for Car Ferry Medium @ (by andythenorth)
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