Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 20th September 2009:
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08:01:47  <DJNekkid>
08:01:51  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - 2cc-2.0.xls @ (by DJNekkid)
08:02:03  <DJNekkid> *whatehesaied*
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08:03:48  <planetmaker> ok. what and where is now the problem?
08:03:53  <DJNekkid> AT14
08:03:56  <DJNekkid> cell AT14
08:04:54  <planetmaker> hm, yes?
08:05:23  <DJNekkid> we cant have a mail capacity of 47,25
08:05:55  <DJNekkid> or armor capacity of 31,5 for that matter
08:06:04  <planetmaker> ok. where do you define those?
08:06:26  <planetmaker> e.g. where is that calculated?
08:07:12  <DJNekkid> it takes the (wagon) capacity stated in N14 (or O14) and multiplies it with 0,75 for mail and 0,5 for armor
08:08:36  <planetmaker> well. simply as I said: use round(O14*N14)
08:08:40  <planetmaker> instead of O14*N14
08:08:56  <planetmaker> or whatever your localization tells you to use instead of round(...)
08:09:05  <planetmaker> e.g. I have to use runden(...)
08:09:17  <planetmaker> and accordingly in other places
08:09:50  <DJNekkid> im _this_ close to uninstalling the norwegian one, and installing the english one :)
08:10:14  <DJNekkid> imho should that they allow both english or local imputs
08:10:19  <DJNekkid> atleast when the help menu is in english
08:10:45  <planetmaker> yes. I agree. The localization changing and disallowing English is a pain
08:12:09  <DJNekkid> i assume it can "=round(50/3)"
08:12:30  <planetmaker> you can.
08:12:42  <planetmaker> but you could also directly only round in the string cell:
08:13:02  <planetmaker> =$AJ&$B14&AT & RUNDEN($O14*0,75)
08:13:12  <DJNekkid> that is what i ment
08:13:17  <planetmaker> ok :-)
08:13:30  <DJNekkid> but i have no idea what round is in norwegian ...
08:13:37  <planetmaker> uhm...?
08:13:40  <DJNekkid> and the 2 or 3 typical ones didnt work :P
08:16:09  <planetmaker> avrunder, omgangene, runde <-- any of those?
08:16:26  <planetmaker> I'd try the last one first
08:16:29  <DJNekkid> might be runde :)
08:16:36  <ODM> hey guys
08:16:49  <planetmaker> hey guy :-)
08:16:54  <DJNekkid> neither apparently
08:17:07  <DJNekkid> "avrund" worked
08:17:16  <planetmaker> but I'm sure it rounds down?
08:17:32  <planetmaker> then try rund, too maybe?
08:17:41  <planetmaker> I've no clue about norwegian language, though ;-)
08:17:44  <DJNekkid> 50/3 turned to 17
08:17:52  <planetmaker> sounds ok
08:18:11  <planetmaker> hm... does it?
08:18:30  <DJNekkid> it seems to round with "normal" behavior...
08:18:34  <DJNekkid> atleast in my head :)
08:19:47  <planetmaker> indeed
08:20:46  <DJNekkid> anyway, any ideas on how to write a .csv to .pnfo converter? :p
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08:26:03  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 131: Add: files for Vehicle Ferries @ (by andythenorth)
08:26:20  <DJNekkid> hi andythenorth :)
08:26:26  <andythenorth> morning
08:26:39  <DJNekkid> did u see any of my posts in your threads? :)
08:29:05  <andythenorth> yes thanks
08:30:27  <andythenorth> bored of drawing the vehicle ferry now :|
08:30:37  <andythenorth> time to do something else
08:31:08  <DJNekkid> hehe :)
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09:14:06  <DJNekkid> god damn it
09:14:12  <DJNekkid> this is gonna be an epic spreadhseet
09:14:20  <DJNekkid> *sheet
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09:54:23  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 269: i think i've pretty much have finished the spreadsheet v2.0 @ (by DJNekkid)
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14:52:54  <planetmaker> [13:58]	<DJNekkid>	[10:20:46] anyway, any ideas on how to write a .csv to .pnfo converter? :p <-- if it's only an action0, that's feasable, I think...
14:53:21  <DJNekkid> for action0 yes...
14:53:22  <planetmaker> feasable and "done in no time", though, are different things...
14:54:01  <DJNekkid> hehe...
14:54:21  <planetmaker> similar to what I said, though: defining a macro which is fed the single elements in one line as parameters
14:54:45  <Ammler> awk
14:54:55  <planetmaker> I dunno awk sufficient :-)
14:55:08  <planetmaker> I'd put it into a c-preprocessor macro
14:55:11  <DJNekkid> would one not require something that removes all unneccesary stuff ? :)
14:55:12  <Ammler> me neither, but shouldn't be that hard to learn.
14:55:24  <planetmaker> hm... doesn't make sense what I said
14:55:46  <Ammler> pm, you think, you can do that without gcc only?
14:55:47  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: I would want the csv to have one engine per line and only one and nothing more
14:55:54  <planetmaker> Ammler: on 2nd thought: no
14:55:55  <Ammler> -out
14:56:21  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: as it is now is it only one engine per line
14:56:44  <Ammler> the only issue I see there is, that awk isn't in the msys default package.
14:56:52  <Ammler> mingw/msys
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15:00:55  <planetmaker> hm... isn't it? That's bad... :S
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15:01:08  <planetmaker> sed could do it, too, I guess
15:01:45  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: and there's nothing in the lines which must not go into the nfo?
15:02:16  <planetmaker> it was my impression that there's a lot of stuff left of the things which go into the action0
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15:02:36  <planetmaker> moin dandan
15:02:44  <dandan_> hi planetmaker
15:02:47  <DJNekkid> there are a few things thats not NFO directly, its calculations
15:02:49  <dandan_> thanks for the pm
15:02:59  <planetmaker> :-)
15:03:14  <DJNekkid> the current online is the one i have locally atm
15:03:33  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: what about moving the not-to-be-displayed calculations to a separate sheet (table2)? And only export the 1st?
15:04:03  <DJNekkid> can u open the current one?
15:04:13  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: I could this morning
15:04:30  <DJNekkid> I.E AL14 to to BP14 ?
15:06:46  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: I'll have a look, but it should work
15:07:11  <dandan_> dj, can you tell me what I have to do to put the Japan Set in the devzone?
15:07:20  <planetmaker> dandan_: what is your repo(s) like now? do you have any version control system in use?
15:07:28  <planetmaker> dandan_: I can and will :-)
15:07:50  <dandan_> no, only local files
15:08:00  <planetmaker> <-- I assume you use windows. IF you want to use the build system...
15:08:09  <dandan_> no, i use mac os
15:08:15  <planetmaker> ... it requires you to actually install a bit of stuff.
15:08:20  <planetmaker> macos is fine. I use it, too
15:08:35  <planetmaker> then I actually DO know how it works :-)
15:08:39  <dandan_> :-)
15:08:57  <planetmaker> and: you have most things already, or they're easier.
15:09:04  <planetmaker> do you have the development tools installed?
15:09:12  <dandan_> yes
15:09:12  <planetmaker> e.g. xcode and stuff?
15:09:14  <planetmaker> good
15:09:53  <planetmaker> we usually use mercurial as version system
15:10:16  <dandan_> ok
15:10:17  <planetmaker> I guess that you don't have that? Are you familiar with the command line (
15:10:23  <dandan_> sure
15:10:29  <dandan_> but i don't have mercurial
15:10:34  <dandan_> can i get it on macports?
15:10:38  <planetmaker> hg --version will tell you wether you have it. If not, you can ^^
15:10:51  <planetmaker> sudo port install mercurial
15:10:54  <dandan_> okay, no hg
15:11:22  <dandan_> okay, hang on
15:12:00  <dandan_> fine, will probably take a while
15:12:12  <planetmaker> hm, ok. I dunno anymore how much was needed.
15:12:17  <planetmaker> what version do you actually have?
15:12:21  <planetmaker> of osx?
15:12:25  <planetmaker> (just curious)
15:12:41  <dandan_> 10.6 ;-)
15:12:57  <planetmaker> there's one other thing which we need then from you: your public key, so that you may commit to the server
15:13:00  <planetmaker> ha :-)
15:13:17  <planetmaker> ok, then everything should be pretty similar.
15:13:54  <planetmaker> have you ever used gpg?
15:14:08  <dandan_> yes, but long time ago
15:14:26  <planetmaker> well, that's used to create a key pair.
15:14:33  <planetmaker> gpg --gen-key
15:15:17  <dandan_> guess i first have to install gpg as well
15:15:54  <planetmaker> oh. ok.
15:15:59  <planetmaker> I thought it was default.
15:16:08  <dandan_> and macports is still busy building all sorts of stuff...
15:17:08  <planetmaker> hm... Ammler ? Do I actually tell the proper thing {TM} with the key?
15:18:04  <planetmaker> nope, I don't.
15:18:06  <planetmaker>
15:18:08  <Webster> Title: SSH ohne Passwort -- eine kurze Anleitung (at
15:18:36  <planetmaker> ssh-keygen is our friend
15:18:41  <Ammler> Welcome dandan_ :-)
15:18:48  <dandan_> aha
15:18:51  <dandan_> hi ammler
15:19:36  <planetmaker> dandan_: you might already, though, register at the devzone
15:19:52  <planetmaker> (the webinterface to all this stuff)
15:20:19  <dandan_> okay, will do
15:20:51  <dandan_> guess I will continue to use this ridiculous nick ;-)
15:20:59  <planetmaker> dandan_: should we make something like "Japanese set" and then sub projects like JP trains, JP terrain, ... ?
15:21:18  <Ammler> assuming one repo per set.
15:21:44  <dandan_> I think that would be best, since there are quite a few subprojects by now
15:22:01  <Ammler> yes, we made something similar for the Dutchies
15:22:03  <planetmaker> yup, thought so :-) And the Dutch*Set have the same
15:22:10  <Ammler> :-)
15:22:53  <planetmaker> identifier jpset?
15:23:10  <planetmaker> and then jptrains, jpstations, jpterrain for the repo names?
15:23:26  <Ammler> yes, you should keep jp in the subprojects.
15:23:46  <Ammler> those should be called like the grfs.
15:23:57  <dandan_> yes, e.g. jpterrain should be jpland
15:24:24  <DJNekkid> and houses should be jphome? :)
15:24:43  <dandan_> lol, no, jpbuild
15:24:51  <dandan_> will i not be able to modify those?
15:25:17  <DJNekkid> i think you should go for:
15:25:17  <planetmaker> dandan_: the identifier: no. But... you locally could, of course, name your dirs as you want.
15:25:40  <planetmaker> and the identifier basically is only the dir name on the server
15:25:49  <DJNekkid> iHOME, iLAND, iCHEWCHEW etc :p
15:25:59  <Ammler> the identifier is the repo name.
15:26:14  <Ammler>
15:26:30  <planetmaker> dandan_: I made you manager of the jpset project.
15:26:40  <dandan_> great :-)
15:26:53  <planetmaker> you can now start to create your sub-projects. And yes, the identifier basically tells how the URL looks like:
15:27:07  <planetmaker>
15:27:20  <planetmaker> nothing else, nothing more, nothing less
15:27:28  <planetmaker> *hg-repos
15:27:50  <planetmaker> dandan_: did you generate a key pair already with ssh-keygen?
15:28:02  <planetmaker> you should have that by default
15:28:05  <planetmaker> installed
15:28:26  <dandan_> still waiting for macports to finish building mercurial
15:28:38  <planetmaker> just open another xterm :-)
15:29:00  <planetmaker> command+n
15:29:05  <planetmaker> when the first is active
15:29:18  <dandan_> sure, I know, but I thought building a key will use a lot of cpu so i'll wait for the compile to finish
15:29:24  <dandan_> but maybe nonsense
15:29:25  <planetmaker> not at all
15:29:43  <planetmaker> it's just a bit of random numbers that match some math
15:29:52  <planetmaker> so... not so random :-P
15:30:00  <Ammler> depense on the strength
15:30:15  <dandan_> oh, okay, only took a millisecond ;-)
15:30:16  <planetmaker> less than 1024 is not possible
15:30:18  <Ammler> 2k key can take around half a minute
15:30:41  <planetmaker> dandan_: I need the public key.
15:30:42  <Ammler> or was that 4k, I had in mind?
15:31:02  <planetmaker> you can either paste it to e.g. or however. Upload to devzone
15:31:59  <dandan_> okay, how do i upload it?
15:32:11  <planetmaker> e.g. the jpset should have a files section
15:32:26  <dandan_> can't see it yet
15:32:42  <planetmaker>
15:32:43  <Ammler>
15:32:47  <Ammler> :-P
15:32:58  <planetmaker> but please only the .pub :-)
15:33:08  <dandan_> sure :-)
15:33:14  <dandan_> why does not show jp yet?
15:33:17  <planetmaker> well. I've seen it differently :-)
15:33:32  <planetmaker> it's not yet there, no repo
15:33:37  <planetmaker> just the interface
15:33:38  <Ammler> an admin needs to initialize the repo
15:34:05  <planetmaker> Ammler: on ottdc or as hg?
15:34:12  <planetmaker> s/on/as/
15:34:29  <Ammler> we should still use ottdc
15:34:35  <planetmaker> ok
15:34:41  <planetmaker> I thought we switched ;-)
15:34:58  <Ammler> no, I still plan :-)
15:35:07  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Japan Set - @ (by dandan)
15:35:35  <planetmaker> :-)
15:38:01  <planetmaker> key added, access granted
15:38:34  <planetmaker> dandan_: jpset itself, I guess won't have a repo as it's only the "box" to put the others in, right?
15:38:50  <Ammler> I would now setup all the repos like the identifiers: jptrains, jpland, jpbuild...?
15:38:51  <planetmaker> Did you already create a project, e.g. for jptrains?
15:39:02  <planetmaker> Ammler: I agree :-)
15:39:09  <planetmaker> jpbuild = buildings?
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15:39:21  <planetmaker> :-P
15:39:21  *** openttdcoop sets mode: +v dandan__
15:39:31  <planetmaker> that's why he is so silent ;-)
15:39:49  <planetmaker> :-)
15:39:50  <planetmaker> [17:38]	<planetmaker>	key added, access granted
15:39:52  <planetmaker> [17:38]	<planetmaker>	dandan_: jpset itself, I guess won't have a repo as it's only the "box" to put the others in, right?
15:39:53  <planetmaker> [17:38]	<Ammler>	I would now setup all the repos like the identifiers: jptrains, jpland, jpbuild...?
15:39:55  <Ammler> oh, dandan is a german guy :-)
15:40:18  <dandan__> stimmt
15:40:33  <planetmaker> seems like the German speaking people start, just start to grow in number here, too ;-)
15:40:42  <planetmaker> though Dutchies... still a lot :-P
15:41:15  <Ammler> is there actually a Japanese guy involved in the set?
15:42:14  <planetmaker> <-- can you create new projects there, now, dandan__ ?
15:42:43  <planetmaker> brb. Wäsche aufhängen :-P
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15:44:28  <dandan___> another dandan here with even more _
15:44:42  <Ammler> :-)
15:45:06  <dandan___> have to do something about that internet connection...
15:45:56  <dandan___> not sure if anybody heard me, so Ammler do you need the names for the repos?
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15:46:18  <Ammler> dandan___: yes
15:46:27  <Ammler> would be the easiest
15:46:44  <Ammler> and you could create a project per set with same identifier
15:47:09  <Ammler> the identifier can't be changed, but everything else.
15:48:14  <dandan___> okay, for now we need jptrains, jpstations, jpbuild, jpland, jptrees, jpsignals
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15:49:23  <dandan___> finally finished to install mercurial
15:49:28  <planetmaker> :-)
15:50:00  <planetmaker> dandan___: just to test whether it works: go into your main grf dev dir and make a checkout of an existing one, e.g. the example makefile :-)
15:50:31  <planetmaker> try hg clone ssh://
15:50:41  <planetmaker> it will create a dir called newgrf-makefile
15:50:47  <planetmaker> wherever you invoke it.
15:51:11  <planetmaker> that dir will contain the respective repo
15:51:27  <dandan___> it worked
15:51:39  <planetmaker> cool :-) As that worked, it also means that your key works.
15:51:53  <Ammler> well, i have initialized all repos
15:52:02  <dandan___> yep, i love it when everything works
15:52:04  <dandan___> great
15:52:04  <Ammler> so you could also test with your repos :-)
15:52:09  <planetmaker> ok, then he should checkout those.
15:52:32  <planetmaker> dandan___: setup on mac is WAY easier than on windoze ;-)
15:52:44  <dandan___> but they are empty, no?
15:52:47  <Ammler> dandan___: how did you build the newgrfs?
15:52:54  <Ammler> dandan___: yes, they are.
15:53:14  <dandan___> okay, it still works and creates the directory
15:53:23  <planetmaker> dandan___: it will then be your task to fill the repo with the stuff which constitutes as "source" :-)
15:53:34  <planetmaker> *repos
15:53:53  <Ammler> you can for start also use the windows guides.
15:53:58  <planetmaker> you might e.g. not put every file which can be generated into the repo
15:54:02  <dandan___> i used to build them under windows in a vm, but finally managed to compile grfcodec and renum under mac os
15:54:12  <dandan___> wasn't there a thread by you on how to do this?
15:54:18  <planetmaker> dandan___: you know that they're available for download for osx, too?
15:54:27  <dandan___> don't even remember anymore what the problem was and why it then worked
15:54:30  <planetmaker> (grfcodec + renum) as nightlies
15:54:44  <Ammler> dandan___: but you code one big nfo file per set?
15:54:54  <dandan___> yes
15:55:00  <planetmaker> :-O
15:55:02  <Ammler> no prebuilding before renum/grfcodec
15:55:25  <dandan___> no
15:55:34  <planetmaker> that must be HUGE source files
15:55:36  <Ammler> well, then your source is that nfo and pcxs
15:55:46  <planetmaker> but doesn't matter :-)
15:55:47  <dandan___> to be honest, the source of the Japan set is not in very good shape in general...
15:55:59  <planetmaker> dandan___: hehe. The usual way repos end up here
15:56:05  <dandan___> i kind of took it over from other people and I think at some point way back it was created with grfmaker... ;-)
15:56:06  <planetmaker> and then the cleaning begins ;-)
15:56:37  <Ammler> do you have other files then nfo and pcx?
15:56:41  <planetmaker> we got some experience to bring repos into more presentable shape :-)
15:57:18  <dandan___> more than one pcx and some auxiliary nfos that are used to manage those pcxs if you understand what i mean
15:57:37  <planetmaker> but that's what version control systems are good for: you cannot loose stuff then...
15:58:02  <dandan___> that's true... I do keep backups though, but this will be much safer of course
15:58:29  <planetmaker> the devzone is backed up to bitbucket, another free-of-charge mercurial service provider
15:58:43  <planetmaker> and each person who has the repo has the whole history, too
15:59:01  <planetmaker> of course only since the first commit to hg :-)
16:00:07  <dandan___> okay, now I have to start learning to use all this stuff...
16:00:51  <Ammler> simplest for start is now, to move all the files you need for creating the current grf but without the grf
16:01:08  <dandan___> hang on
16:01:18  <planetmaker> dandan___: where do grfcodec and renum reside for you?
16:01:55  <Ammler> better copy then move :-)
16:02:21  <planetmaker> indeed. Don't yet throw away your old repos
16:02:30  <dandan___> in /usr/bin
16:02:35  <planetmaker> ok :-)
16:02:50  <planetmaker> I'm asking. I had people have their binaries in each repo...
16:05:33  <dandan___> I will have to change the paths in the nfo files, since they start with Japan Set/sprites/...
16:05:48  <planetmaker> oh
16:05:53  <planetmaker> make them relative paths
16:06:09  <planetmaker> relative to the dir they reside in
16:06:25  <planetmaker> or rather relative to the dir you call nforenum / grfcodec
16:06:56  <planetmaker> and do yourself the favour and don't use dir names with spaces ;-)
16:07:02  <dandan___> yeah, they are relative in that way but I don't want a dir Japan Set anymore
16:07:03  <dandan___> will change it
16:07:28  <planetmaker> should be a simple search and replace
16:07:35  <Ammler> on all nfos I know, the real sprite lines start with sprites/...
16:07:49  <planetmaker> true
16:07:58  <planetmaker> and that sounds like a good solution :-)
16:08:16  <planetmaker> Ammler: you didn't yet create the projects on the devzone, just the repos?
16:08:21  <Ammler> its also what grfcodec does after decode
16:08:40  <dandan___> guess that is reasonable...
16:08:45  <Ammler> pm, yes, thought dandan does do that self, or you :-P
16:09:19  <planetmaker> :-P
16:09:50  <planetmaker> dandan___: it would mean that in your repository you add / create a dir called sprites where you put them. But I guess you know that :-)
16:10:41  <dandan___> yes, it's done now
16:10:49  <dandan___> so I copied the buildings stuff and it works
16:10:51  <dandan___> what now?
16:11:44  <Ammler> hg ci -A -m "Initial setup (or whatever)"
16:11:53  <Ammler> oh
16:12:02  <Ammler> define the username
16:12:30  <planetmaker> he. What does -A mean, Ammler ?
16:12:32  <Ammler> that is what pm should tell you :-)
16:12:45  <Ammler> adding/removing everyhthing
16:12:53  <planetmaker> ah
16:13:16  <planetmaker> yeah, good point.
16:13:23  <planetmaker> create a file in your home dir:
16:13:29  <planetmaker> .hgrc
16:13:44  <dandan___> okay
16:13:49  <planetmaker> [ui]
16:13:51  <planetmaker> username = planetmaker <email>
16:13:58  <planetmaker> ^^ that's my .hgrc
16:14:10  <planetmaker> with the proper e-mail, but this is a public channel :-)
16:14:20  <dandan___> fine
16:14:37  <planetmaker> then your name as it shows in the commit log is set for all projects you participate in.
16:14:59  <dandan___> good
16:16:10  <Ammler> [18:14] <planetmaker> with the proper e-mail, but this is a public channel  <-- same public as the repos itself ;-)
16:16:18  <planetmaker> he :-P
16:17:00  <Ammler> <-- but no email there
16:17:10  <planetmaker> see
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16:18:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: update from r267 to r269, starting nightly compile
16:18:33  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: compile done (1 errors) -
16:18:33  <Brot6> firs: nightly compile not needed. (r217)
16:18:34  <Brot6> fish: update from r119 to r131, starting nightly compile
16:18:38  <planetmaker> ^^ our nighlies, dandan___ :-)
16:18:52  <andythenorth> fish might have a *lot* of errors
16:18:54  <Brot6> fish: compile done (1 errors) -
16:18:54  <Brot6> heqs: nightly compile not needed. (r169)
16:18:54  <Brot6> nmts: nightly compile not needed. (r14)
16:18:55  <Brot6> opengfx: nightly compile not needed. (r200)
16:18:55  <Brot6> opensfx: nightly compile not needed. (r41)
16:18:56  <Brot6> worldairlineset: nightly compile not needed. (r538)
16:20:14  <Ammler> [18:19] <andythenorth> fish might have a *lot* of errors <-- you could silence them :-P
16:20:31  <andythenorth> I could *fix* them
16:20:32  <andythenorth> :)
16:20:37  <Ammler> no, guess not
16:21:00  <Ammler> well, not every, as some or just not supported by nforenum, but by openttd
16:23:54  <dandan___> okay, no I wanted to try hg push ... but it complains that .hg is not present
16:24:34  <planetmaker> dandan___: are you in the (a) dir which you checked out from the devzone?
16:25:14  <dandan___> I thought so, but apparently the .hg is in the dir it created (jpbuild)
16:25:29  <planetmaker> e.g. for the buildings you should have done somewhere like hg clone ssh://
16:25:51  <planetmaker> yes, that's where the .hg is. And within the created dir everything needs to be which shall be in the repo
16:25:58  <dandan___> right
16:26:03  <planetmaker> e.g. in jpbuild dir
16:26:39  <dandan___> okay now I did hg push there and it says "Keine Änderungen gefunden" which is unlikely
16:26:48  <dandan___> how can I check the result
16:26:51  <planetmaker> ah. you didn't add anything
16:26:59  <planetmaker> try hg st
16:27:09  <planetmaker> it should list MANY un-versioned files
16:27:18  <planetmaker> try hg add *
16:27:33  <planetmaker> if you only have stuf which needs versioning, e.g. which should be in the repo
16:27:46  <dandan___> ahh okay
16:28:03  <planetmaker> e.g. you have to tell hg explicitly which files it should take care of
16:28:49  <planetmaker> <-- maybe you want to bookmark that
16:28:49  <Webster> Title: Mercurial: The Definitive Guide (at
16:29:11  <dandan___> yeah thanks
16:29:59  <planetmaker> I also only know the like 5 basic commands: hg add, revert, commit, pull, update and merge
16:30:18  <dandan___> when I go to it only shows the train set right now
16:30:19  <planetmaker> oh. and log :-)
16:30:35  <planetmaker> dandan___: yes, I added that. But not more projects.
16:30:48  <planetmaker> the others still need adding to the web interface. e.g. creation there.
16:31:04  <dandan___> can I do that or do you have to do it?
16:31:10  <planetmaker> you can do that
16:31:26  <planetmaker> the repos are all there. Only the webinterface misses.
16:31:34  <Ammler> I guee, we need to move them to jpsets after
16:31:46  <planetmaker> <-- there are all repos
16:31:52  <planetmaker> Ammler: they can be put there right from the start
16:32:05  <planetmaker> just chose to make the sub-project of jpset
16:32:08  <Ammler> pm, from admins
16:32:12  <Ammler> or is that fixed now?
16:32:15  <dandan___> ah good
16:32:20  <planetmaker> oh, only? well, nvm. That's a minor thing
16:32:49  <dandan___> now push still didn't work, still keine Änderungen...
16:33:00  <planetmaker> dandan___: hg add worked?
16:33:09  <dandan___> yeah
16:33:12  <planetmaker> did you subsequently then do
16:33:17  <planetmaker> hg push
16:33:26  <planetmaker> wait.
16:33:28  <planetmaker> hg add
16:33:31  <planetmaker> hg commit
16:33:33  <planetmaker> hg push
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16:33:37  <planetmaker> that's the sequence :-)
16:33:40  <planetmaker> first add
16:33:45  <planetmaker>  then commit (locally)
16:33:48  <planetmaker> then transmit to other repo
16:34:39  <dandan___> much better, thanks
16:34:44  <planetmaker> :-)
16:35:08  <planetmaker> if you only change existing files, hg add is, of course, not needed
16:35:19  <planetmaker> existing as in already versioned
16:36:07  <dandan___> okay, apart from the fact that I should have edited the version comment it now worked absolutely fine
16:36:24  <planetmaker> lool :-) yes
16:36:28  <Ammler> which set did you push?
16:36:32  <planetmaker> buildings
16:36:34  <dandan___> the buildings
16:37:13  <planetmaker> dandan___: writing good commit messages is IMO important. It makes clear to others what happend
16:37:32  <planetmaker> I usuall use hg ci -m "my verbose commit message"
16:37:44  <dandan___> oh and also I shouldn't have added .DS_Store
16:37:53  <planetmaker> yes. you can undo that:
16:37:57  <planetmaker> hg remove .DS_Store
16:38:27  <planetmaker> Ammler: are you somehow changing the commit message? (Is that possible at all?)
16:38:40  <Ammler> no
16:38:48  <Ammler> but we could decline pushes
16:39:00  <dandan___> funny, it says the file .DS_Store is not under versioning but it still uploaded it
16:39:09  <Ammler> best is to trash the repo and push again ;-)
16:39:14  <dandan___> sorry, my fault
16:39:26  <Ammler> .ds_store isn't that bad
16:39:32  <Ammler> there are worse
16:39:48  <planetmaker> :-)
16:39:54  <Ammler> planetmaker: should show you his global ignore file
16:40:07  <planetmaker> :-)
16:40:57  <planetmaker>
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16:41:30  <Ammler> planetmaker: that isn't global :-P
16:41:33  <dandan___> it was the .ds_store in the readme directory and removing it worked now
16:41:46  <planetmaker> Ammler: my global one is short
16:41:48  <planetmaker> history
16:41:50  <planetmaker> and testing
16:42:02  <planetmaker> but that's my local global one :-P
16:42:03  <Ammler> ds_store belongs there, imo
16:42:09  <Ammler> I mean that
16:42:24  <planetmaker> it is in there what I pasted ;-)
16:42:34  <planetmaker> # Files created by Mac image preview and file browser:
16:42:36  <planetmaker> .DS_Store
16:42:37  <dandan___> why, it's only useful for mac os
16:42:37  <planetmaker> Thumbs.db
16:42:52  <planetmaker> dandan___: so what? yes. But for all
16:42:57  <planetmaker> and others are not harmed
16:43:22  <Ammler> you shoulld copy that file to your home: ~/.hgignore
16:43:45  <planetmaker> Ammler: it's part of... each .hgignore in projects where I made the Makefile :-P
16:43:53  <planetmaker> and IMO that's where it belongs
16:43:59  <dandan___> what does it do?
16:44:00  <Ammler> and add " = ~/.hgignore" to ~/.hgrc
16:44:15  <planetmaker> dandan___: it makes hg st not show that file
16:44:27  <Ammler> planetmaker: you know, I hate redundancy :-P
16:44:36  <planetmaker> Ammler: it's not redundancy
16:44:47  <planetmaker> anyone who checks out the repo should have a decent checkout
16:45:00  <Ammler> nah, nvm. up2you
16:45:14  <planetmaker> not only the regulars like me and you who have the whole thing properly setup ;-)
16:45:24  <planetmaker> have I(?) ;-)
16:46:29  <dandan___> does = ~/.hgignore go into the ui section of hgrc or another one?
16:46:36  <planetmaker> Ammler: for the sam reason .bak etc are added there
16:46:54  <Ammler> yes, to [ui]
16:46:58  <planetmaker> dandan___: into another file
16:47:04  <planetmaker> .hgignore in the repo
16:47:12  <planetmaker> hm...
16:47:59  <planetmaker> it doesn't need to be mentioned anywhere, does it?
16:48:04  <planetmaker> or am I doing it wrong?
16:48:22  <Ammler> planetmaker: I was speaking about the global file
16:48:24  <planetmaker> ah, no, I have it in my global .hgrc
16:48:33  <planetmaker> ignore = ~/.hgignore
16:48:41  <planetmaker> in ~/.hgrc
16:49:07  <dandan___> okay
16:49:46  <Ammler> at least ds_store needs to be there
16:49:55  <Ammler> else you can't use add all
16:50:22  <Ammler> (until you have a ignore file in the repo itself) ;-)
16:50:34  <planetmaker> hehe
16:52:35  <dandan___> okay, I will add the other grfs in time, though not right away
16:52:41  <planetmaker> no rush
16:52:53  <planetmaker> it probably needs some cleaning up :-)
16:53:01  <planetmaker> which is better done in no hurry
16:53:07  <dandan___> oh yes
16:53:20  <planetmaker> well, you know where to find us
16:53:37  <planetmaker> and you at least have exercised how adding to the repos works
16:53:42  <dandan___> yes, thank you both for the help
16:53:50  <planetmaker> my pleasure, you're welcome
16:54:09  <dandan___> i will surely have more questions at some point but for now I should be okay
16:54:32  <planetmaker> when you have added the repos, and if you like, I could start adding the makefile system to the newgrfs.
16:54:44  <planetmaker> that would allow the server to build nightlies.
16:54:58  <planetmaker> and it would kinda automatize the grf generation
16:55:05  <dandan___> sure
16:55:10  <planetmaker> just call make in the dir and be done ;-)
16:55:12  <dandan___> you want to do that right now for the buildings?
16:55:22  <planetmaker> I could start
16:55:32  <dandan___> do you run renum in the makefile?
16:55:36  <planetmaker> but probably not tonight. I have to pack. I'm leaving home tomorrow at 6:30am
16:55:45  <planetmaker> yes, renum and grfcodec
16:55:51  <planetmaker> and gcc and ... stuff ;-)
16:55:52  <dandan___> poor boy
16:56:14  <dandan___> why gcc?
16:56:31  <planetmaker> pre-processing of the files.
16:56:37  <planetmaker> Not (yet) needed for yours.
16:56:43  <dandan___> oh okay
16:56:51  <planetmaker> But it allows e.g. the use to define globally vehicle IDs by names
16:57:00  <planetmaker> and re-use them by that name. Less confusion
16:57:02  <dandan___> at the moment the buildings really only need one run of renum and one run of grfcodec ;-)
16:57:12  <planetmaker> yep, I figured.
16:57:24  <dandan___> renum should run with -w 100,144
16:57:36  <planetmaker> and: the makefile will automatically give the nightlies a version string
16:57:53  <planetmaker> like you might or might not have seen for firs, fish, 2cctrainset
16:58:09  <dandan___> thats good
16:58:13  <planetmaker> the warnings can be put into the nfo, yes
16:58:26  <planetmaker> well, I'll see what I can do :-)
16:58:32  <dandan___> oh, I didn't know that
16:58:37  <planetmaker> you basically have the makefile system
16:58:43  <planetmaker> newgrf-makefile
16:58:51  <planetmaker> it has sprites/nfo/nfo_header.pnfo
16:59:05  <planetmaker> or one of the other two pnfo files there. they show how it should work
16:59:48  <planetmaker>
17:00:53  <dandan___> ahh I see, //@@WARNING DISABLE
17:00:56  <planetmaker> yup
17:01:38  <planetmaker> that _I_ can tell _you_ about nfo...
17:01:49  <planetmaker> wonders happen :-)
17:02:44  <planetmaker> ok, I'm off for a bit.
17:03:03  <dandan___> so am i
17:03:11  <dandan___> vielen dank und bis bald
17:03:42  <planetmaker> auf denne :-)
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18:47:24  <Doorslammer> Ah, Mr Andy :D
18:49:26  <Doorslammer> Here's something that might be of interest to the FISH set?
18:49:29  <Doorslammer>
18:49:30  <Webster> Title: British Rail Class 99 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
18:51:39  <andythenorth> interesting
18:52:55  <Doorslammer> I didn't even know they were identified as such, but yeah, boats are fun :P
18:53:07  <Doorslammer> Something to fill the different eras anyway ;)
18:53:35  <planetmaker> lool, just lol
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19:11:33  <DJNekkid> andythenorth: did you get the wash to work properly? varAction2 B4 ?`
19:12:09  <andythenorth> frosch has demonstrated a fix (OTTD patch) for it
19:12:27  <DJNekkid> oki... it apparently werent implemented properly for ships then?
19:12:46  <andythenorth> it was kind of correct, but not what is needed
19:12:55  <DJNekkid> hehe
19:13:00  <andythenorth> so hopefully they'll change trunk
19:13:07  <DJNekkid> wierd really ... as it works for trains :)
19:13:14  <andythenorth> trains had a specific fix already
19:13:20  <andythenorth> but not other vehicles
19:13:20  <DJNekkid> oh... :)
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19:13:56  <DJNekkid> planes must also have had it...
19:14:29  <DJNekkid> as pikka have different runningcosts on the different stages
19:20:35  <DJNekkid> hmm ... what more can we fit into that spreadsheet...
19:20:45  <DJNekkid> IDs? :)
19:20:59  <planetmaker> :-)
19:21:02  <planetmaker> We could
19:21:22  <planetmaker> or rather you ;-)
19:21:28  <DJNekkid> rather, me :)
19:22:11  <DJNekkid> and, what would be the better way to do it ... hmmm
19:22:29  <Ammler> rather kind of "offsets"
19:23:02  <DJNekkid> Thats what im thinking as well ...
19:23:07  <Ammler> hmm
19:23:44  <Ammler> didn't you once talk about, not to care about IDs, and just use linear numbering?
19:24:07  <Ammler> (staring at 256
19:24:17  <DJNekkid> well, we did, but that also introduce another problem
19:24:23  <DJNekkid> we need to sort them afterwards
19:24:29  <Ammler> why?
19:24:35  <Ammler> ah for the GUI?
19:24:50  <DJNekkid> cause i want steamers on top, then diesel, then electric, then DMU, then EMU, then railbuses
19:24:58  <DJNekkid> ^^
19:25:54  <Ammler> what are railbuses?
19:25:56  <Ammler> trams?
19:26:15  <Ammler> no
19:26:16  <DJNekkid> no ... single vehicle cheap railgoing thingies
19:26:34  <Ammler> shor EMUs then?
19:26:42  <DJNekkid> DMUs usually ...
19:26:48  <DJNekkid> basicly it is OFTEN busses with railwheels instead of rubber wheels
19:27:07  <Ammler> does v1 have such vehicels?
19:27:10  <planetmaker> like the metro trains in parts
19:27:18  <planetmaker> and yes, it does
19:27:33  <planetmaker> there's even a vehicle which is named "Railbus" ;-)
19:27:38  <Ammler> he, then I missed those
19:27:43  <planetmaker> it's metro
19:27:53  <Ammler> hmm, isn't that maglev thing?
19:28:05  <DJNekkid> there are a few railbusses
19:28:07  <planetmaker> might also be
19:28:09  <Ammler> Turbobus
19:28:25  <DJNekkid> 809 Railcar (Diesel)
19:28:25  <DJNekkid> AR 2 (Diesel)
19:28:26  <DJNekkid> Kinki DMU
19:28:26  <DJNekkid> DM7 (Diesel)
19:28:26  <DJNekkid> 121 Railcar (Diesel)
19:28:26  <DJNekkid> 479 Railcar (Electric)
19:28:26  <DJNekkid> Leyland Railbus (Diesel)
19:28:28  <DJNekkid> VT 133 (Diesel)
19:28:28  <DJNekkid> 153-111
19:29:34  <Ammler> so my proposal is then to start with 1 on every category
19:29:51  <Ammler> I guess, that was the other thing we discussed.
19:30:00  <DJNekkid> but then, we also want to sort by alphabet...
19:30:17  <DJNekkid> so the bigboy is infront of the royal hudson :=)
19:30:36  <planetmaker> hm... where do I get midi files? I need some to test fs3223 :-)
19:30:46  <DJNekkid> ?
19:30:57  <planetmaker> not music. That's sound afaik
19:31:04  <DJNekkid> oh...
19:35:41  <Ammler> planetmaker: from the
19:35:52  <Ammler> orudges page
19:36:02  <planetmaker> right. That'll do. Thanks
19:36:07  <planetmaker> didn't think of that.
19:36:17  <planetmaker> but... first I have to fix michi_cc's patch ;-)
19:46:12  <DJNekkid> hmm ...
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19:46:27  <DJNekkid> i think we might just use an action0 sequenze to sort the list
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19:48:14  <Ammler> hmm, isn't that up to the gui?
19:48:30  <DJNekkid> the GUI sorts it by vehicle ID
19:50:43  <planetmaker> couldn't we give it an explicit sorting?
19:50:49  <planetmaker> but well...
19:50:52  <DJNekkid> we can
19:50:59  <DJNekkid> Action 0 property 1A iirc
19:51:12  <DJNekkid> like "regsel" is right now
19:51:15  <planetmaker> that'd make it easy to have a TTDP and OTTD compatible newgrf
19:51:25  <planetmaker> just using consecutive IDs and be fine
19:51:36  <planetmaker> and sorting them then with 1A
19:51:48  <Ammler> hmm
19:52:12  <Ammler> I need to check, but I am quite sure , the openttd gui at least does support more then just id sorting
19:52:22  <DJNekkid> it does, but thats default
19:52:24  <planetmaker> of course it does
19:52:37  <planetmaker> and sensible defaults make sense
19:52:51  <Ammler> and you want to make the ids depense on alphabetic?
19:52:55  <planetmaker> so having a default sorting as DJN said is perfectly desirable
19:53:12  <planetmaker> uhm, no? On engine type.
19:53:21  <Ammler> yes, and then?
19:53:27  <planetmaker> dunno :-)
19:53:34  <Ammler> I would use the age
19:53:36  <planetmaker> I wouldn't care about the rest. Maybe region or age
19:53:57  <Ammler> not age, the appearing date
19:54:32  <DJNekkid> the reasonable sorting is in my head engine type (engines/mus), then traction with oldes type first, and more moden later
19:54:45  <DJNekkid> so, steam, diesel, electric, DMU, EMU
19:54:51  <DJNekkid> and then alphabeticaly
19:57:44  <DJNekkid> or what do u say?
19:58:17  <DJNekkid> i mean, in vanilla ottd are there about 10 or 15 engines
19:58:23  <DJNekkid> and intro dates are fine
19:58:34  <DJNekkid> but this set have, by now, close to 100 different ones
19:58:56  <DJNekkid> and thus does alphabeticaly make sense, i think
20:00:47  <Ammler> names don't matter, imo.
20:01:16  <Ammler> only for very experienced guys like you
20:01:40  <Ammler> but usual openttd players don't know the trains they use.
20:02:23  <DJNekkid> hehe ... i guess you have a point there
20:02:32  <Ammler> mostly, you want either the fastest or strongest engine available
20:02:44  <DJNekkid> like me you mean? :)
20:03:07  <Ammler> yes "like you" was linking to you :-P
20:03:22  <DJNekkid> hehe
20:03:49  <Ammler> if I look for a train, I scroll down to the last
20:03:56  <Ammler> or I change the sorting
20:04:14  <DJNekkid> but; the list can be sorted by power, speed, names, pretty much you name it
20:04:25  <DJNekkid> so, i think, the default sorting should be "clean"
20:04:26  <Ammler> in 2cc I usually use sorting as it is that many you need to look for.
20:05:26  <Ammler> I sort for speed backwards and check the power of the top engines
20:05:27  <planetmaker> and you don't always want the most powerful there.
20:05:32  <planetmaker> too high running costs ;-)
20:05:44  <Ammler> (me never does care about that :-P
20:05:56  <planetmaker> oh, for MM?
20:06:02  <DJNekkid> i _think_ that is a bit of the charm of the set ...
20:06:09  <DJNekkid> the "crappy" engines have its purpose
20:06:48  <DJNekkid> for example a "shunter" type can do 4 wagons of coal from a low produceing one, and feed it to a nearby high produceing one
20:07:16  <DJNekkid> and, the regional MUs have higher capacity and un/loading speed
20:07:31  <DJNekkid> compared to the speedy trains
20:07:33  <planetmaker> I didn't complain :-)
20:07:59  <DJNekkid> i just wanted to explain how i designed it at its early stage
20:08:03  <Ammler> I don't either, it jsut isn't too well recocnizeable
20:08:11  <planetmaker> but on some maps it's really difficult to have with the initial trains a profitable route (like <1950)
20:08:22  <Ammler> but imo, the difference from erail to rail is too much
20:08:38  <planetmaker> you mean the price tag?
20:08:53  <DJNekkid> thoose french steamers are quite cheap
20:09:06  <DJNekkid> runningcost wise
20:12:55  <DJNekkid> oh fuck!
20:13:17  <DJNekkid> ive forgotten about one thing, some enginges weigh more then 255tons
20:13:28  <DJNekkid> i need to add a highbyte for that!
20:17:08  <planetmaker> just cap them at 255 tons ;-)
20:17:19  <planetmaker> can ttdp handle that?
20:17:51  <DJNekkid> from	2.0.1 alpha 44
20:32:23  <DJNekkid> damn im good :)
20:32:36  <DJNekkid> =$AL&$B14&BL:BL&AVRUND(HVIS(P14<255;P14;HVIS(P14<512;P14-255;HVIS(P14<768;P14-512))))
20:32:42  <DJNekkid> ==$AL&$B14&BN:BN&AVRUND(HVIS(P14<255;0;HVIS(P14<512;1;HVIS(P14<768;2))))
20:33:05  <Rubidium> damn... how I love in C you can write that with comments over multiple lines
20:33:19  <DJNekkid> hehe!
20:33:29  <DJNekkid> hvis = if
20:33:30  <DJNekkid> btw
20:34:13  <Ammler> DJNekkid: did you look, if it is possible to save openoffice documents in textmode?
20:34:22  <DJNekkid> in csv ... ?
20:35:02  <Audigex> ammler
20:35:17  <Audigex> was it you who told me ben_k released all his openttd work GPL?
20:35:25  <Audigex> or possibly you who told me that about someone else
20:35:43  <Ammler> no
20:36:20  <Audigex> hmm
20:36:30  <Ammler> I might have meant DanMacK who has kind of public domain with attribution.
20:36:36  <Audigex> thats the one
20:36:51  <Audigex> thanks
20:37:12  <Ammler> his work is "compatible" with GPL :-)
20:37:25  <Audigex> yup
20:37:30  <Audigex> it was ben's i was after though :)
20:37:43  <Ammler> dunno, what he did
20:37:47  <Ammler> BKTunnels
20:38:12  <Ammler> something else?
20:38:26  <Audigex> ben's? just a couple of models in the brset
20:38:30  <Ammler> DJNekkid: not csv,
20:38:36  <Audigex> but we dont know if he's happy for it to be GPL or not
20:38:41  <Audigex> which means we'll have to redraw
20:38:49  <Ammler> or to ask :-P
20:38:56  <Audigex> well, that too
20:38:57  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 132: Change: progress on graphics for Vehicle Ferry Medium @ (by andythenorth)
20:38:59  <Audigex> but i dont think he's around
20:39:28  <DJNekkid> Ammler: does HMTL count?
20:39:58  <planetmaker> Audigex: good luck finding BenK
20:40:08  <planetmaker> I tried by all means I could think of
20:40:23  <planetmaker> I couldn't establish any relation to a real name or other nicks elsewhere
20:40:25  <DJNekkid>
20:40:37  <Ammler> DJNekkid: I means "real" openoffice documents
20:40:37  <planetmaker> and he isn't around tt-forums since last November
20:40:49  <Ammler> with formulas etc., just versioned
20:41:07  <Audigex> planetmaker: i know :(
20:41:14  <Audigex> thats why i'd hoped it was him
20:41:30  <Ammler> Audigex: check, who coded the bktunnels
20:41:37  <Ammler> maybe he could help
20:41:52  <planetmaker> nope. I spent like 2 hourse trying to identify him. He's Brithish, though and with a bit more effort you might locate him
20:42:14  <DJNekkid> Ammler: thats what i can save it on, perhaps some kind of plugin can do it?
20:42:16  <Ammler>
20:42:22  <planetmaker> IIRC I had like three, four google places which might have been him
20:42:45  <Ammler> DJNekkid: you know, you can simple "unzip" office files
20:42:46  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - oosave.PNG @ (by DJNekkid)
20:43:05  <Ammler> then you get around 3 files or so, which are easy to versioning.
20:43:08  <DJNekkid> no, i have no idea :)
20:43:17  <Ammler> try it :-P
20:43:21  <Audigex> planet - if i get hold of him i'll tell him you wanted him too :)
20:43:35  <Audigex> last visited 18 months ago thoough :(
20:43:46  <planetmaker> Audigex: well. I basically want him to attach a free license to his newgrfs.
20:44:05  <Audigex> thats what i was hoping for :)
20:44:05  <planetmaker> so that people may re-use it.
20:44:40  <planetmaker> last year in autumn dih and me started the stuff with the licenses... which led finally to bananas in a loose way :-)
20:44:58  <planetmaker> (my vain interpretation of things ;-) )
20:45:25  <DJNekkid> but yes, i could unzip it ...
20:45:37  <DJNekkid> not sure how it helps me tho :)
20:45:56  <DJNekkid> it seems to be some XML
20:46:48  <planetmaker> hm... that might or might not be readable via awk & co
20:47:06  <planetmaker> and if it's loadable in OOo
20:47:21  <DJNekkid> the "contents.xml" is close to 3mb
20:47:26  <DJNekkid> "pure" text
20:49:35  <DJNekkid> the .xls file is close to 1mb, the .ods file is 159kb
20:51:56  <Rubidium> hmm... you're exporting an excel sheet with functions to ods?
20:52:13  <DJNekkid> "save as"
20:52:52  <DJNekkid> if that counts as exporting...
20:53:25  <Rubidium> okay, FYI: MS exported ods loses the functions when loaded in anything but MS' Excel; only the values remain (at least that was the result of the last compatability test I've seen)
20:54:13  <DJNekkid> i were merely testing the unzipability ...
20:54:16  <DJNekkid> and i noticed it :)
20:54:18  <Ammler> Rubidium: loading excel files in openoffice works quite well
20:54:20  <DJNekkid> but, im in openoffice anyway
20:54:23  <Ammler> also with formulas
20:54:46  <Rubidium> Ammler: what kind of excel files?
20:55:01  <Rubidium> one of MS' formats?
20:55:20  <Ammler> some finace reports
20:55:33  <Ammler> not very complicated stuff.
20:55:59  <Rubidium> okay, rephrase: what's the extension of the excel files you're loading?
20:56:18  <Ammler> xls it was
20:56:26  <Ammler> now they are ods
20:56:44  <Rubidium> and if it's .ods, do the sums/functions get updated when you change some intermediate values?
20:57:11  <Ammler> I updated my fathers pc to opensuse a year ago, he is a cashier of a small community
20:57:18  <Rubidium> e.g. a sheet with: A1: 1, A2: 2, A3: = A1 + A2
20:57:42  <Ammler> yes, that works for sure
20:57:48  <Rubidium> if you make that in Excel, export as ods, load in OpenOffice. Changing the value of A1 or A2 wouldn't change the value of A3
20:57:57  <Ammler> oh
20:58:02  <Ammler> I have no idea about excel
20:58:11  <Ammler> I meant importing :-)
20:58:24  <Rubidium> unless OpenOffice is working around MS' inability to export a proper ods file
20:58:35  <Ammler> importing of excel files in openoffice works quite easy.
20:58:44  <DJNekkid> Rubidium: im on open...
20:59:04  <Ammler> DJNekkid: does export to xls :-)
20:59:16  <Ammler> which afaik works as good
20:59:17  <DJNekkid> as intended
20:59:47  <DJNekkid> the only thing i really miss in "open excel" is fat borders
21:00:04  <Ammler> he?
21:00:35  <DJNekkid> you know... the borders one can put around the cells
21:00:40  <Ammler> since version 3, openoffice should have everything excel 2k had
21:00:49  <Ammler> no idea about the newer ones.
21:01:05  <DJNekkid> i have a version 3 something
21:01:21  <Ammler> you can for sure make boarders around a cell
21:01:25  <Rubidium> 3.1.1 does fat borders
21:02:10  <DJNekkid> this was 3.0.0 :)
21:02:33  <Ammler> well, I highly guess, also version 2 did that already
21:02:44  <DJNekkid> i blame my IT appartment
21:02:48  <Ammler> :-)
21:03:20  <Ammler> maybe the just said it, so you don't push the bosses to switch to openoffice ;-)
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21:03:42  <DJNekkid> all "floor" employes have openoffice, not MS
21:05:02  <andythenorth> good night
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21:06:02  <DJNekkid> our winxp computers are even locked, so we cant install stuff...
21:06:19  <DJNekkid> good thing i know how to "hack" that ... i.e. insert a CD that does it for me :p
21:07:21  <Ammler> knoppix :-)
21:08:05  <Ammler> well, there might be a reason, why they are locked :-P
21:08:54  <Ammler> such things, you simply don't need to care about in linux
21:09:09  <Ammler> if the user want to install something, he can do that in his home.
21:09:35  <Ammler> I still have no issues to get there with ssh and run my zypper things.
21:10:28  <DJNekkid> they are locked so we dont fill them with all kinds of shit :)
21:10:34  <planetmaker> Ammler: but even that might be undesirable.
21:10:40  <DJNekkid> virus, porn, you name it :)
21:10:48  <DJNekkid> atleast i dont have viruses :)
21:10:58  <planetmaker> there are environments where you just don't want any executable except checked by IT staff
21:11:08  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: that's what you say now ;-)
21:11:24  <Ammler> planetmaker: well, that might also be possible with linux
21:11:37  <planetmaker> Ammler: yes, sure
21:11:58  <Ammler> but not on maschines which you take with you
21:12:01  <planetmaker> but then not everything runs under lin. And locking is a way :-)
21:12:10  <Ammler> then it is better to allow such things.
21:12:18  <planetmaker> Ammler: also there...
21:12:36  <Ammler> planetmaker: then you need to crypt the hd.
21:12:51  <planetmaker> of course
21:13:14  <Ammler> oh well, that is a bit another category :-)
21:13:40  <Ammler> I know people they crypt the had because of the torrents they download :-P
21:13:55  <Ammler> -a
21:14:22  <planetmaker> but those people don't have their machines pre-configured by an IT department :-)
21:15:59  <DJNekkid> omg, the football table is DAMN close on its middle section...
21:16:13  <DJNekkid> 5	Brann	25	10	7	8	42 - 41	37
21:16:13  <DJNekkid> 6	Start	24	8	9	7	39 - 44	33
21:16:13  <DJNekkid> 7	Viking	24	8	8	8	33 - 33	32
21:16:13  <DJNekkid> 8	Troms	24	8	8	8	30 - 31	32
21:16:13  <DJNekkid> 9	Sandefjord	25	8	8	9	32 - 37	32
21:16:14  <DJNekkid> 10	Vlerenga	25	9	4	12	39 - 44	31
21:16:14  <DJNekkid> 11	Lillestrm	25	7	9	9	36 - 42	30
21:16:16  <DJNekkid> 12	Aalesund	25	8	6	11	29 - 38	30
21:16:16  <DJNekkid> 13	Strmsgodset	25	7	5	13	32 - 37	26
21:16:38  <Ammler> thanks DJNekkid, I am very interested in your local football :-P
21:17:06  <DJNekkid> hehe!
21:17:15  <Ammler> quite high points
21:17:26  <Ammler> you get more then 3 points for a winner?
21:17:30  <DJNekkid> no
21:17:47  <DJNekkid> but the series are played from april to november
21:18:04  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
21:18:09  <DJNekkid> not like most other european countries, where its played from like august to may or something
21:18:14  <planetmaker> norway and winter = cold and dark ;-)
21:18:18  <DJNekkid>
21:18:20  <Webster> Title: Fotball - VG Nett (at
21:18:22  <DJNekkid> about 2 pages down
21:18:27  <DJNekkid> right side
21:21:20  <Ammler> DJNekkid: your paste failed :-P
21:24:04  * Ammler tries to remember last game against norway...
21:24:20  <DJNekkid> IF EVER
21:24:27  <DJNekkid> sorry caps
21:25:23  <Ammler> 17.08.2005 	Norwegen 	- 	Schweiz 	0 	: 	2 	Länderspiel 	Ullevaal Stadium, Oslo
21:25:27  <Ammler> \o/
21:26:16  <DJNekkid> sure thats not women or something?
21:26:23  <DJNekkid> or some youth-match=?
21:27:23  <planetmaker> probably it's cricket :-P
21:27:26  <DJNekkid> apparently it were somet training game
21:27:30  <planetmaker> and now good night :-)
21:27:34  <DJNekkid>
21:27:36  <Webster> Title: Norge - Sveits 0-2 - VG Nett om Landslaget (at
21:28:11  <Ammler> well
21:28:26  <Ammler> on 2000, there was a bad game from our sigth
21:28:29  <Ammler> 5:0
21:29:17  <Ammler> 10.09.1997 	Norwegen 	- 	Schweiz 	5 	: 	0 	WM - Qualifikation 	Ulleval, Oslo 	» Telegramm
21:29:26  <DJNekkid> 29.03.2000: 2-2
21:29:27  <Ammler> 2000 was another game
21:30:21  <Ammler> I guess, we have kinda equal statistics
21:30:42  <DJNekkid> IN OTHER WORDS: WE BOTH SUCK...
21:30:44  <Ammler> but it seems you won more of the important games
21:30:51  <DJNekkid> god damn it ... caps again
21:30:56  <Ammler> oh fully agree :-P
21:31:16  <Ammler> hmm, ice hockey
21:31:30  <DJNekkid> anyway, in 1995-2000 ish were the "glory days" for the norwegian national football team
21:32:01  <Ammler> ours just began, we won against greeks :-)
21:32:05  <Rubidium> football as in foot + ball or egg + hand?
21:32:28  <DJNekkid> as in, marko van basten :)
21:32:45  <Rubidium>
21:32:48  <Webster> Title:" target="_blank"> 0.05c - Wir bohren einfach weiter (at" target="_blank">
21:32:58  <Ammler> DJNekkid: the glory days of dutch also is far in past ;-)
21:33:21  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
21:33:22  <Webster> Title: DFB - Deutscher Fuball-Bund e.V. - International game results (at
21:34:00  <DJNekkid> they werent THAT bad in last years ... something ...
21:34:01  <Ammler> hmm, the "clever" countries call that ruckby or something like
21:34:23  <planetmaker> :-P
21:34:24  <Webster> Title: DFB - Deutscher Fuball-Bund e.V. - International game results (at
21:35:44  <Ammler>
21:35:46  <Webster> Title:" target="_blank"> 0.05c - Wir bohren einfach weiter (at" target="_blank">
21:36:04  <Ammler> 5 cent?
21:36:10  <DJNekkid> what about the "green piracy" ?
21:36:26  <planetmaker> 21.11.1956 Frankfurt/M. 	Germany - Switzerland	1:3 	<--- last win of Switzerland ;-)
21:37:03  <planetmaker> ok, and now really a good night :-P
21:37:28  <DJNekkid>
21:37:29  <Webster> Title:" target="_blank"> 0.05c - Wir bohren einfach weiter (at" target="_blank">
21:39:40  <DJNekkid> roflmao!
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