Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 30th October 2009:
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00:14:11  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Japanese Buildings Set - Bug #627 (New): pure white pixels (alignment?) @ (by planetmaker)
00:14:11  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Japanese Buildings Set - Feature #628 (New): Make system @ (by planetmaker)
00:15:40  <Rubidium> planetmaker: regarding #627, unlikely alignment issues; some of those sprites are ginourmous though
00:16:03  <planetmaker> yes. For some the assumption is unlikely that it's an alignment issue
00:16:13  <planetmaker> But fixing those warnings is a good idea nevertheless
00:16:30  <planetmaker> 1 in 10k pixels won't be an alignemtn :-)
00:16:48  <planetmaker> s/emtn/ment/
00:17:59  <Rubidium> actually, only from 1 in 32767+ it's for certain not an alignment issue
00:18:17  <planetmaker> and the idea behind that issue is also to show that we're willing to contribute here, too :-P
00:18:21  <Rubidium> oh, more like
00:18:32  <Rubidium> from 1 in 32764+
00:18:46  <planetmaker> but we'll need at least some directions how to proceed with these newgrfs.
00:21:38  <Rubidium> <- pice?
00:21:46  <Rubidium> and what's the point of that empty thing?
00:23:51  <Rubidium> wow... that fatmap project really got of the ground ;)
00:30:47  <planetmaker> well... that empty thing is... dunno... probably a kind of dummy newgrf which should hold things like the lumbermilll in temperate and such
00:31:11  <Ammler> :-)
00:31:13  <planetmaker> and fatmaps... haven't seen any work done there in the commits. But maybe I just missed it
00:31:36  <planetmaker> highlight on lumbermill? ;-)
00:32:09  <Ammler> minigrfs is meant for the migration of all my small newgrfs
00:32:48  <planetmaker> hm... should I commit Zuu's latest version of the fizzy drinks factory?
00:34:03  <Ammler> maybe wait another day, if/when he comes up with another version.
00:34:14  <planetmaker> hm, yeah
00:34:47  <planetmaker> I like the way with the step-function in brightness actually quite a bit more than a completely smooth transition
00:35:46  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #115: Sprites 4737:4742 (6) - Toyland: Fizzy drink factory @ (by athanasios)
00:37:59  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #107: Sprites 4627:4674 (48) - Toyland: Buildings @ (by athanasios)
00:38:07  <Ammler> he, if you speak about ^ :-)
00:38:19  <planetmaker> he, yeah :-)
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00:40:02  <Ammler> athanasios should draw another thing
00:40:13  <planetmaker> yes :-)
00:41:57  <planetmaker> hm, but all people like the iglu ;-)
00:42:36  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #115: Sprites 4737:4742 (6) - Toyland: Fizzy drink factory @ (by athanasios)
00:45:45  <planetmaker> hm... I'm not sure that the iglu is actually different enough...
00:46:01  <planetmaker> same alignment, same holes, all in the same place.
00:46:17  <Rubidium> agreed :)
00:46:38  <Rubidium> was my first thought when I saw the original vs 'new'
00:55:01  <planetmaker> btw I wondered: which newgrfs read the plane speed?
00:55:23  <planetmaker> I find it actually quite bad that they can...
00:58:12  <Rubidium> IIRC pikka's does for running cost etc
00:58:29  <planetmaker> hm
00:58:54  <planetmaker> we haven't seen any desyncs related to that. And I'm sure we used AV8 and the extension
00:59:15  <Rubidium> but did you change the plane speed while the game was running in MP?
00:59:26  <planetmaker> it's sad to see that closed... it's a setting frequently gotten wrong
00:59:34  <planetmaker> we change it not seldomly
00:59:56  <planetmaker> but I cannot say which set we had then - but it always worked
01:00:27  <planetmaker> we usually make money initially with planes nowadays, so we want them fast, if they're set to slow
01:01:46  <planetmaker> It's getting increasingly difficult to get all settings, including sensible and up2date choice of newgrfs "right"
01:02:01  <planetmaker> But I guess we're quite picky with the settings, too ;-)
01:03:15  <planetmaker> Most maps we get need some adjustment. Even some made by quite experienced players...
01:03:16  <Rubidium> anyhow, it's pre-emptive
01:03:21  <planetmaker> yes, sure
01:03:30  <Rubidium> as most other desync 'fixes' were lately
01:04:30  <planetmaker> btw, I've a feature request: restart a map (e.g. water, land, height) as it is now, towns in the same places and the current settings
01:05:22  <planetmaker> that would offer a big advantage in that respect that scenarios can be really re-started (except industry placement), but w/o newgrf conflicts
01:05:28  <Rubidium> load game in sceneditor, landscape->remove all player owned stuff->load scenario
01:05:40  <planetmaker> yeah, but newgrfs :-)
01:05:57  <planetmaker> like ecs -> firs. ttrs -> swedish or alike
01:06:08  <planetmaker> jptrains -> nars
01:06:44  <planetmaker> that's one of the main points imo which make scenarios a bit limited in re-use. It's hard to update a nice terrain map
01:06:53  <planetmaker> or play with a different set
01:07:31  <planetmaker> or maybe a button just like "restart" with the current settings (both newgrf + adv. settings)
01:08:10  <Rubidium> that's what restart does
01:08:40  <planetmaker> but ... doesn't that use the same grf settings as the map had?
01:09:36  <Rubidium> AFAIK it copies the 'current' game settings (incl. grf)
01:10:57  <planetmaker> hm... I just tested it.
01:11:19  <planetmaker> I have the same as the map had when I loaded it. Not with the changed grfs
01:12:21  <planetmaker> yup
01:13:39  <planetmaker> but ok, restart is taken. Then it needs to be called differently, maybe reinit ;-)
01:15:32  * Rubidium slaps TB for ever adding it
01:20:56  <planetmaker> :-D
01:21:19  <Rubidium> as always... give them a finger and they take your whole arm
01:21:34  <planetmaker> he :-)
01:21:41  * planetmaker grabs the whole person :-P
01:23:00  <Rubidium> time for bed
01:25:40  <planetmaker> indeed. long time
01:25:42  <planetmaker> good night
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02:13:19  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Redmine - Revision 2825: Do not show user profile if no visible project or activity (#4129, #3720). @ (by jplang)
02:13:19  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Redmine - Revision 2832: Merged r2986 from trunk. @ (by jplang)
02:13:19  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Redmine - Revision 2826: AccountController#show (/account/show/:id) moved to UsersController#show... @ (by jplang)
02:13:20  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Redmine - Revision 2827: Include missing fixtures. @ (by jplang)
02:13:23  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Redmine - Revision 2828: Fixes users links. @ (by jplang)
02:13:26  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Redmine - Revision 2829: Unified UsersController#list and #index. @ (by jplang)
02:13:31  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Redmine - Revision 2830: Fixed a test failure. @ (by jplang)
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02:33:46  <Brot6> Backup done! (Usage: 103M)
02:33:47  <Brot6> I selected E5 ... but I didn't hear "Sam the Sham and the Pharoahs"!
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04:18:06  <Brot6> Web seems down, restarting apache
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09:25:05  <DJ_Nekkid> well guys... tty on monday... we are off to copenhagen for a few days :P
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09:31:43  <planetmaker> oh, enjoy DJ...
09:31:50  <planetmaker> hello & good morning andythenorth
09:36:57  <andythenorth> morning
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09:46:11  <Rubidium> reverse psychology?
09:46:25  <Rubidium> saying 'morning' when leaving and 'evening' when coming?
09:46:49  <planetmaker> :-)
09:51:41  <planetmaker> <-- Rubidium, I'd like your opinion: different enough?
09:51:43  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - [8bpp] Graphics Replacement Project - OpenGFX (at
09:52:00  <Rubidium> ianal!
09:52:15  <Rubidium> iamgone
10:05:50  <Ammler> "I am not a l..."?
10:06:42  <Ammler> ah, planetmaker you fear it wouldn't look different enough?
10:09:09  <planetmaker> yes
10:09:24  <planetmaker> Ammler, I am not a lawyer
10:09:53  <planetmaker> and good morning, too :-)
10:13:25  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Japanese Buildings Set - Bug #629 (New): compile warnings @ (by planetmaker)
10:17:36  <Ammler> there are other sprites, who look like exact copies
10:17:48  <Ammler> which*
10:18:00  <Ammler> like the industries
10:20:45  <planetmaker> yes...
10:20:55  <planetmaker> but it's a weak argument, isn't it?
10:22:04  <Ammler> yes, well he changed it now :-)
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10:23:06  <planetmaker> so you think it's ok?
10:26:27  <LordAzamath> hmm.. just to be sure, you didn't ask me?
10:26:29  <LordAzamath> :P
10:26:43  <planetmaker> :-)
10:27:23  <planetmaker> Well... the question is why it has also the same black dot e.g (and maybe not a snow man instead) or so...
10:27:56  <LordAzamath> black dot?
10:28:13  <LordAzamath> you mean the fishing hole?
10:28:17  <planetmaker> call it dark. Probably the whole in the ice which makes the ground. yes
10:28:48  <Ammler> toylands people don't eat fish
10:28:49  <LordAzamath> there is because I took a glance at what was I supposed to draw
10:28:53  <LordAzamath> well
10:28:56  <LordAzamath> it's not a fish hole
10:28:57  <Ammler> they eat lollipop
10:28:59  <LordAzamath> it's a candy hole
10:29:10  <LordAzamath> :D
10:34:53  <LordAzamath> well Zeph agrees
10:34:54  <LordAzamath> with me
10:34:58  <LordAzamath> so no worries
10:35:00  <LordAzamath> :D
10:49:12  <Ammler> I am looking forward to play toyland
10:49:23  <Ammler> this wasn't possible with original graphics
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12:18:59  <planetmaker> hm... how does the box editor for the houses work? I cannot talk it into loading any sprite...
12:21:01  <LordAzamath> no idea
12:21:04  <Ammler> Isn't the website running anymore?
12:21:18  <Ammler> shall I install it on the devzone?
12:22:01  <planetmaker> hm... which website? :-) I don't have that link. Besides it'd make sense to have it on the devzone
12:23:17  <planetmaker> well. I can call the page from the repository in my browser. It works to create the box.
12:23:23  <planetmaker> But without the sprite in it...
12:23:37  <planetmaker> And I don't remember anymore where that wrapper ran.
12:26:56  <planetmaker> actually, Ammler skip it for our old server.
12:27:02  <planetmaker> Not worth to install it there.
12:27:50  <Ammler> well
13:34:28  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Revision 210: Feature: Add iglu as building (sprite 4662, part of issue #107) @ (by planetmaker)
14:17:25  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #111 (Closed): Sprites 4694:4694 (1) - Toyland: Statue @ (by planetmaker)
14:21:53  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #136: add test case / test save @ (by planetmaker)
15:04:08  <Brot6> opengfx: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
15:25:06  <Brot6> Web seems down, restarting apache
15:33:03  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Japanese Buildings Set - Feature #628: Make system @ (by planetmaker)
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15:36:04  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Japanese Landscape Set - Feature #630 (New): Makefile support @ (by planetmaker)
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16:01:34  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #115: Sprites 4737:4742 (6) - Toyland: Fizzy drink factory @ (by athanasios)
16:06:13  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #136: add test case / test save @ (by athanasios)
16:08:52  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #136: add test case / test save @ (by athanasios)
16:08:52  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #136: add test case / test save @ (by planetmaker)
16:19:20  <Ammler> he, the japan set is also a good example, they didn't share the source
16:19:35  <Ammler> dandan continued with a decoded grf
17:06:35  <planetmaker> indeed
17:06:50  <planetmaker> though it might actually have looked like that: one big file...
17:06:51  <planetmaker> dunno
17:18:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: update from r355 to r356, starting nightly compile
17:18:38  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: compile done (0 errors) -
17:18:38  <Brot6> bros: nightly compile not needed. (r10)
17:18:38  <Brot6> firs: nightly compile not needed. (r349)
17:18:38  <Brot6> fish: nightly compile not needed. (r159)
17:18:39  <Brot6> heqs: nightly compile not needed. (r169)
17:18:40  <Brot6> nmts: nightly compile not needed. (r15)
17:18:41  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r209 to r210, starting nightly compile
17:19:32  <Brot6> opengfx: compile done (0 errors) -
17:19:32  <Brot6> opensfx: nightly compile not needed. (r43)
17:19:32  <Brot6> worldairlineset: nightly compile not needed. (r584)
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19:52:46  <andythenorth> evening
19:54:47  <Rubidium> planetmaker: nice move to lawton27 :)
19:55:06  <planetmaker> you cannot imagine how I enjoyed it :-)
19:56:19  <planetmaker> if there's something like an evilgasm, I certainly had it ;-)
19:56:30  <Rubidium> planetmaker: why can't I imagine that?
19:57:04  <planetmaker> well... :-) as every person experiences such things differently :-)
19:57:11  <Rubidium> oh
19:57:35  <Rubidium> someone asked a binary and I gave him a 64 bits PPC OSX binary
19:57:38  <planetmaker> Consider it a figure of speach - probably it doesn't translate well into English and then into Dutch ;-)
19:57:48  <planetmaker> haha :-)
19:57:55  <Rubidium> and someone asked a "zip binary"... and well... the rest you can guess
19:58:05  <planetmaker> I would have given him 64bit OSX intel. But that was too big for the forums
19:58:15  <planetmaker> so it's "only" 32bit linux
19:58:31  <planetmaker> of course I can. Taking people litterally can be BIG fun ;-)
19:58:34  <Rubidium> for those who can't guess: info-zip works nice
19:58:42  <planetmaker> hehe
19:58:50  <Rubidium> planetmaker: just strip the binary, or was it already stripped?
19:59:16  <planetmaker> I didn't strip it. I didn't think of it actually. bundle_zip doesn't do it, I assume?
19:59:35  <planetmaker> the bundle is 4.6M
19:59:46  <planetmaker> actually even the linux bundle is 3.9M
19:59:54  <Rubidium> I think stripping is disabled by default
20:00:46  <planetmaker> it removes useful asserts, does it?
20:01:07  <Rubidium> no, it removes debugging stuff but leaves the asserts
20:01:24  <planetmaker> oh, right.
20:03:28  <planetmaker> but I asked orudge to possibly extend the upload file size limit to 5MB :-) Seems OpenTTD grew a bit in the last two years :-)
20:04:06  <Brot6> derailed, restarting apache
20:04:12  <planetmaker> :S
20:04:24  <Rubidium> just remove most .lngs :)
20:04:48  <planetmaker> True :-)
20:05:10  <planetmaker> Might be an idea to distribute actually two things: binary + language extension :-)
20:05:18  <planetmaker> Or making them available via bananas, too
20:05:36  <planetmaker> but that's... a lot of change. Possibly not worth the effort
20:05:51  <Rubidium> making them available via bananas is just going to cause a mess
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20:06:01  <planetmaker> why?
20:06:23  <Rubidium> self built + no svn == mayhem
20:06:40  <LordAzamath> why not
20:06:42  <planetmaker> well. self-built has the languages.
20:06:42  <LordAzamath> tf2 time
20:07:20  <planetmaker> or could have. But otoh... a bit disk storage doesn't matter nowadays.
20:10:06  <Rubidium> for the debian-offical package it is planned to split the package, but for the 'normal' releases it's too much work for *us* and the users (downloading two things etc)
20:14:50  <planetmaker> oh, debian wants to split it? Why do they?
20:15:30  <andythenorth> hmm Neko
20:15:59  <andythenorth> he's been ...helpful... in the FIRS thread
20:16:45  <planetmaker> hehe @ andythenorth. I considered replying. But then... keeping silent there was probably the better choice
20:17:00  <andythenorth> well he's right.  but impatient
20:17:05  <planetmaker> yes
20:17:11  <andythenorth> committing bugs to the nightly is bad
20:17:17  <andythenorth> but sometimes necessary
20:17:32  <planetmaker> well. It's not a bug in that sense. It's testing values.
20:17:52  <Rubidium> planetmaker: ~10 architectures * sizeof(full package) vs ~10 architectures * sizeof(binary) + sizeof(data)
20:18:04  <andythenorth> it's borderline a bug :)  I half-finished code and pushed it
20:18:30  <andythenorth> I need a faithful assistant to help copy and paste the rest of the code  :O
20:18:33  <planetmaker> He... debian also has many architectures... I keep forgetting that, too :-)
20:18:46  <planetmaker> :-)
20:19:02  <planetmaker> andythenorth: in what way you mean? Don't you use templates? ;-)
20:19:10  <Rubidium> sorry, I lied... 14 architectures
20:19:28  <planetmaker> if you can copy&paste something you should put it into a separate file and use it as a template via #include "filename"
20:19:40  <planetmaker> if possible
20:19:58  <Rubidium> oh... you should use m4nfo!
20:20:03  <andythenorth> planetmaker: :P it's the #includes that I need to copy and paste
20:20:11  <planetmaker> :-)
20:20:13  <andythenorth> copy #defines....
20:20:17  <andythenorth> copy #include....
20:20:20  <andythenorth> change values...
20:20:22  <andythenorth> save....
20:20:24  <andythenorth> build....
20:20:25  <andythenorth> test...
20:20:27  <andythenorth> commit....
20:20:28  <planetmaker> right...
20:20:29  <andythenorth> push...
20:20:48  <andythenorth> takes about 10 mins per industry, not hard.  Any volunteers :D
20:20:53  <andythenorth> ?
20:21:16  <andythenorth> I'll do it this weekend then ;)
20:21:16  <planetmaker> Rubidium: well... :-) mb mb...
20:21:31  <Rubidium> vw!
20:22:17  <planetmaker> I guess using the macro power of the gcc pre-processor is quite a good thing already.
20:22:37  <planetmaker> Not sure whether using yet another language is worth the effort.
20:23:10  <Rubidium> as I said... vapourware
20:23:14  <Rubidium> like his other 'stuff'
20:24:36  <planetmaker> yep. Looks like. Joint releases with Duke Nukem Forever.
20:26:27  <andythenorth> hmmm...what is m4nfo <googles>
20:27:02  <Rubidium> planetmaker: no, with the new TTDP
20:27:09  <andythenorth> ah I see.  well screw it, I like the hex now
20:27:30  <andythenorth> even without the hex, nfo is still batshit crazy
20:27:48  <andythenorth> plus it gives me some credibility with the programmers I employ
20:28:24  <andythenorth> limited credibility though.  they think a real programmer would have written a compiler from a high level language by now, instead of banging their head on partly-documented, baroque hex
20:29:10  <planetmaker> Rubidium: well... I have more trust in DaleStan taking it over than mb making a release :-)
20:29:47  <Rubidium> my feeling is the exact opposite (after a talk with Dalestan)
20:30:11  <planetmaker> he... :-)
20:30:33  <planetmaker> he told me once he dreads the official take-over from patchman
20:30:56  <planetmaker> in a way that he'd then had to admit (to himself) that he'd be completely responsible for it
20:31:02  <Rubidium> he didn't want to make a changelog of 5 years of changes, and I've got the feeling he doesn't have the proverbial balls to take it over
20:31:48  <Rubidium> if patchman would say he's okay with it (and gives him rights to the website) then the chances of it happening increase dramatically though
20:31:50  <planetmaker> making the changelog is the least of the tasks IMO. It's one, two hours maybe
20:32:02  <Rubidium> right...
20:32:09  <planetmaker> I wouldn't think that patchman would disagree...
20:33:22  <Rubidium> even for OpenTTD doing the changelog for a minor release, well... actually figuring out what to backport and what not takes an hour
20:34:49  <Rubidium> figuring out from the last branch-till-now svn log what wasn't backported, isn't a fix for an issue introduced in trunk *after* the branch (those fixes are totally unimportant) and what's worth mentioning took a whole afternoon for 0.7
20:34:58  <planetmaker> Well... but the backports are already done, so it's "only" skimming through the svn changelog and extracting the [0.7] commits or alike. And formatting it and...
20:35:02  <Rubidium> now I'm doing it as bits 'n pieces
20:35:29  <planetmaker> I didn't include the backporting itself in my time estimate.
20:35:40  <planetmaker> Just the log-reading and parsing
20:36:06  <planetmaker> I dunno... didn't TTDP backport things so far?
20:36:18  <Rubidium> I didn't include backporting either
20:36:42  <Rubidium> <- the changelog for 0.7.4-RC1 *if* it comes
20:36:50  <planetmaker> ok. But when you make a release you don't have to decide anymore what you backport and what not? Or what did I misunderstand?
20:36:52  <Rubidium> yet there hasn't been a single backport
20:38:05  <planetmaker> oh, that's your list what to backport. Not what you did backport. Right...
20:40:20  <Rubidium> yes (formatted as the final changelog)
20:40:51  <Rubidium> <- few hours of work already
20:42:11  <planetmaker> uhm... you need hours to generate that list from svn log?
20:43:10  <Rubidium> filtering what's worth mentioning and what's not, yes
20:43:37  <planetmaker> I guess that's something which is quite "flexible" in the amount of time put into :-)
20:43:53  <planetmaker> Granted, that takes time. Cannot be automated and anything
20:44:31  <Rubidium> ofcourse you could show the user the complete changelog, but... well... that's too much info
20:44:53  <planetmaker> True. And changed on changes between versions don't count for them either.ok, I'm off for the night.
20:45:06  <planetmaker> Meeting some friends :-)
20:45:14  <planetmaker> in real life :-P
20:45:16  <Rubidium> ciao
20:45:37  <planetmaker> au revoir :-)
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23:27:05  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #136: add test case / test save @ (by athanasios)

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