Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 17th December 2009:
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00:38:34  <PeterT> @coopstats
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02:13:58  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Redmine - Revision 3017: Adds a Plugin API to allow one plugin to depend on another. @ (by edavis10)
02:33:46  <Brot6> Backup done! (Usage: 109M)
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12:01:16  <Rubidium> pff... the #openttdcoop PZ server is almost 2 months old :(
12:19:26  <Ammler> possible no recent activity there...
12:27:01  <Ammler> ususally, if we use the PZ, we first copy the bundle from PS
12:27:49  <Ammler> but currently it is a test server for Avignon...
12:29:01  <Rubidium> ah well, I'd wonder if you could get some feedback on FS#3369 (need to upgrade the server for that), although the PS seems to be running already a week (so close to a restart?)
12:29:17  <planetmaker> yes... the PZ hasn't been played on for a while
12:29:38  <planetmaker> yes, PS will restart in forseeable future. I guess this weekend.
12:29:52  <planetmaker> It's getting heavy for most people wrt CPU usage
12:29:56  <Ammler> dunno about restart, but we will update it today
12:30:20  <planetmaker> I still don't see the need to update mid-game w/o error ;-)
12:31:07  <Ammler> we need a script to test the availability of the bundles
12:31:11  <planetmaker> ok, but we can test 3369 probably in this game
12:31:15  <Ammler> current ps rev has no source package
12:31:28  <planetmaker> Ammler, yes. but who uses the *source* package?
12:31:32  <Rubidium> planetmaker: not quite, because YAPF was modified between the report and the ps
12:31:52  <planetmaker> Ok. That's then a good reason to update - and continue the same game :-)
12:32:21  <Ammler> I like to use obs to build "openttdcoop"  binaries;-)
12:32:43  <planetmaker> Rubidium, or is it required to start a new game with the settings as he describes?
12:33:02  <planetmaker> I see, Ammler :-)
12:33:59  <Rubidium> well, it looks like the 'problem' lies within the changed characteristics of automagically finding a depot for servicing (when you're not using service orders)
12:34:00  <planetmaker> and... I don't quite get his definition of "regular tracks"
12:34:19  <planetmaker> Should it work in single-player? I guess...
12:34:43  <Rubidium> but the moron threw away his savegame so the only thing we got is that report
12:34:45  <planetmaker> So one could even take one of the autosaves and test locally probably
12:35:03  <Rubidium> yes
12:35:06  <planetmaker> <-- grab one :-)
12:35:43  <Rubidium> well I've got plenty of savegames and it doesn't seem to be happening in any of them
12:36:09  <planetmaker> ok. I'll see, hopefully tonight.
12:36:24  <Rubidium> no need to hurry :)
12:37:00  <planetmaker> I still have an open "check whether it works" request from Yexo concerning airports... :-)
12:37:50  <Rubidium> well... that's going to be a pretty cross-modal network :)
12:38:15  <Rubidium> road stop changes, YAPF changes, airport changes :)
12:38:30  <Ammler> <-- you spoke about that ticket?
12:39:34  <Rubidium> yes
12:40:08  <Ammler> so if a train can't head back, it shouldn't go to depot?
12:40:49  <Rubidium> well, it's likely bad network design, but it might also that there's a flaw and they're heading for depots hundreds of tiles away
12:41:13  <planetmaker> well... the current network is nicely suitable. It's a bit chaotic ;-)
12:41:22  <Ammler> yeah, don't think that is a bug of openttd :-)
12:41:28  <planetmaker> but it's missing depots. We don't need service. But then they're easily added
12:41:40  * Rubidium has to go for a while, see y'all later
12:41:46  <planetmaker> cu & enjoy
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17:18:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: nightly compile not needed. (r413)
17:18:03  <Brot6> bros: nightly compile not needed. (r10)
17:18:03  <Brot6> comic-houses: nightly compile not needed. (r68)
17:18:03  <Brot6> firs: nightly compile not needed. (r366)
17:18:03  <Brot6> fish: nightly compile not needed. (r220)
17:18:04  <Brot6> heqs: nightly compile not needed. (r172)
17:18:04  <Brot6> nmts: nightly compile not needed. (r15)
17:18:06  <Brot6> opengfx: nightly compile not needed. (r281)
17:18:08  <Brot6> opensfx: nightly compile not needed. (r62)
17:18:10  <Brot6> worldairlineset: nightly compile not needed. (r584)
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18:00:32  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenSFX - Feature #685: add sound @ (by janusz)
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18:51:41  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Bug #688 (Confirmed): shore tiles @ (by planetmaker)
19:13:40  <Ammler> planetmaker: you need new shore sprites for that, newwater doesn't work with 10
19:15:32  <Ammler> IMO not really that important
19:15:39  <Ammler> could be fixed later...
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19:21:02  <planetmaker> Ammler: as far as I understand it, I don't need any additional sprites...
19:22:10  <Ammler> no, it needs fewer
19:22:27  <planetmaker> es
19:22:31  <planetmaker> *yes
19:22:37  <Ammler> but the newwater sprites aren't compatible to fewer
19:23:09  <Ammler> then you will have the more ugly glitches, why openttd made this nice feature.
19:23:10  <planetmaker> aren't they?
19:23:17  <planetmaker> bad
19:23:27  <Ammler> can't you remember?
19:23:33  <planetmaker> no :-D
19:24:33  <Ammler> like those:
19:24:46  <planetmaker> well... Agreed, it's not urgent. To me it looks like an easy fix. If we need new graphics, it's for 0.3
19:25:15  <Ammler> well, I fear it is going uglier like with the trains ;-)
19:29:13  <planetmaker> ... the trains are not uglier :-(
19:31:25  <DJNekkid> pax wagons got uglier :P
19:32:15  <planetmaker> :'-(
19:32:51  <DJNekkid> i do not see thoose glitches on the tunnels ppl keep messing about
19:32:59  <DJNekkid> atleat with the 2cc 5th gen pax coaches
19:33:06  <DJNekkid> and they are 32 and 22px long
19:33:14  <DJNekkid> or 32 and 16 if you wish
19:33:59  <Ammler> I do see those gltiches on 0.2.0
19:34:05  <Ammler> I didn't before ;-)
19:34:17  <Ammler> but that is because I wasn't aware of :-P
19:34:35  <DJNekkid> in tunnels, right?
19:35:27  <DJNekkid> and thats only in / direction
19:36:15  <DJNekkid> and imho are thoose glitches worth it
19:36:24  <planetmaker> Well... I do, DJNekkid
19:36:33  <planetmaker> those glitches are there
19:36:45  <DJNekkid> but otoh are there now glitches inbetween the wagons :)
19:37:39  <DJNekkid> and it also happens on shortened spritse
19:37:41  <DJNekkid> sprites
19:38:06  <planetmaker> hm... might have to do also with the relative offsets... maybe. Dunno. Requires further investigation
19:38:17  * planetmaker assigns that task to Ammler as he complains about it most
19:39:17  <Ammler> which?
19:39:34  <planetmaker> investigate what exactly causes the glitches.
19:39:43  <Ammler> newwater?
19:39:49  <Ammler> or trains?
19:39:50  <planetmaker> and whether it is maybe related to the relative offsets of train wagons
19:40:15  <DJNekkid> y-offset
19:40:24  <planetmaker> in the result I'd like a set of x,y and xrel and yrel values which work
19:40:42  <DJNekkid> try setting Y-offset one or two down and see
19:41:02  <planetmaker> Something along those lines is my guess
19:41:29  <Ammler> well, I would revert it for now and "fix" it later.
19:42:10  <planetmaker> ...
19:42:17  <planetmaker> I didn't ask for a revert.
19:42:21  <planetmaker> I ask for a fix
19:43:06  <DJNekkid> and now, go spank him! :P
19:43:19  <planetmaker> bang! bang! bang! ;-)
19:43:26  <planetmaker> hm... did he actually enjoy it? ;-)
19:44:07  <Ammler> well, I didn't code much on this set, and now everything I have done is gone ;-)
19:44:43  <planetmaker> well... those glitches are ugly IMO. And now there's a coherent wagon set. For all climates. Which is IMO quite nice
19:44:43  <Ammler> so at least I was wondering about the result :-P
19:45:14  <Ammler> I only checked monolev
19:45:19  <planetmaker> Given the previous discussions by Foobar I was led to believe that this fixes it. oh well. Not quite. But at least we have a basis for that now
19:45:38  <DJNekkid> there is an easy test for that
19:46:13  <Ammler> I think, if the glitch isn't fixed, it is worth a revert.
19:46:24  <Ammler> or it wasn't worth a commit ;-)
19:47:17  <planetmaker> for heavens sake... this needs a solution. And not "oh, it's ugly" talk
19:48:37  <planetmaker> If you can show me that <wagon length in sprites> does not glitch I'll happily give you that.
19:48:38  <Ammler> of course, but sometimes, it might be better to go back and try again instead of trying to fix the bugfix.
19:48:54  <DJNekkid> with a low enough Y-rel doesnt it glitch
19:48:56  <planetmaker> but there's no point to go back here anywhere
19:49:06  <DJNekkid> if we are talking about the trains glitching in tunnels in /-view
19:49:15  <planetmaker> yes, we do, DJNekkid :-)
19:49:25  <Ammler> planetmaker: for the 0.2.1 release that would be.
19:49:37  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: so... a lower value solves it also for the 5th GEN PAX?
19:49:51  <Ammler> we also once agreed to make first a complete release and start to fiddle after that.
19:49:57  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: yes
19:50:19  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: can you give me a diff or commit it?
19:50:45  <Rubidium> there's a complete release, right?
19:50:46  <planetmaker> Ammler: your point?
19:50:52  <DJNekkid>
19:50:56  <DJNekkid> thoose values work
19:51:19  <planetmaker> uh... DJNekkid can you produce a diff? Way easier.
19:51:20  <DJNekkid> but it means the wagons are _rather_ low on the tracks
19:51:20  <planetmaker> hg diff
19:51:49  <DJNekkid> let me just wrap up what i were doing :)
19:51:49  <planetmaker> learn the joy of patching ;-)
19:51:58  <planetmaker> hg diff <filename>
19:52:12  <DJNekkid> unless you want a really big diff
19:54:30  <Ammler> Rubidium: yes, there is, I am just not happy with new introduces trains glitches...
19:56:14  <planetmaker> Ammler: there are no newly introduced glitches. Or which do you mean?
19:56:34  <Ammler> let me show you some screens...
19:57:55  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: you can also create a diff from only one file: hg diff thisfile
19:58:41  <planetmaker> that's actually what I sometimes do when changing one thing and another. Then I commit the different files separately. Works fine
19:59:00  <planetmaker> hg ci -m "blubber blue commit message" file1 file2 file3
20:01:50  <Ammler>
20:01:51  <Webster> Title: plasma-desktopSr2633.jpg (at
20:03:30  <Ammler> <-- tunnel glitch still there
20:03:31  <Webster> Title: plasma-desktopCp2633.jpg (at
20:04:41  <planetmaker> I know that the glitch is still there, Ammler. But you said there was also a new glitch.
20:06:40  <planetmaker> or... you mean the offset wrt the engine?
20:06:50  <planetmaker> the shift wrt the tracks... hm... ye
20:06:51  <planetmaker> s
20:07:35  <Ammler> planetmaker: yes, the first screen
20:08:38  <planetmaker> that *should* be a moderately easy fix as I kinda templated the wagon offsets. You only need to change 4 lines and you have fixed them all
20:09:04  <Ammler> you mean fixing the fix?
20:09:05  <planetmaker> But maybe the templating is missing for some, still
20:09:13  <Ammler> but why keep the new versions if they don't help?
20:09:32  <Ammler> the longer trains are nicer, aren't they?
20:09:39  <Ammler> waggons*
20:10:14  <Ammler> that is all, I don't understand.
20:10:21  <planetmaker> as said Ammler: make the glitches go away and give me a diff which also works with longer wagons glitch free: you're welcome
20:10:37  <Ammler> well, same to you :-)
20:10:53  <Ammler> but you didn't care, you just committed :-P
20:10:56  <planetmaker> I'm even quite convinced that molace would even lengthen the wagons (again)
20:11:03  <planetmaker> and we even have longer versions of them
20:11:16  <planetmaker> though not the newest one. And not in a nice referenced way
20:11:40  <Ammler> oh, I am speaking only about monolev
20:12:02  <planetmaker> well. He made wagons for all.
20:12:10  <Ammler> the whole time btw.
20:12:27  <planetmaker> And it canot be treated singularily. As trains and maglev share sprites. For some cargos
20:12:47  <planetmaker> s/canot/cannot/
20:12:55  * Ammler only coded the engines and the pax/good/mail waggon
20:15:07  <Ammler> and I thought, I did it good :'-(
20:15:56  <planetmaker> well, yes. You did
20:16:09  <planetmaker> And still there have been those glitches, not?
20:16:56  <Ammler> well, I wasn't aware of those glitches until your commit ;-)
20:16:59  <Chris_Booth> Ammler: PSG 158 is missing
20:17:08  <Ammler> Chris_Booth: OT here :-P
20:17:24  <Chris_Booth> OT?
20:17:28  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: what were it you wanted?
20:17:43  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: wagon alignment so that they don't glitch
20:17:48  <DJNekkid> a diff'ed pax_normal.tnfo? :P
20:17:49  <planetmaker> as a diff
20:17:54  <planetmaker> yes, I guess
20:18:16  <planetmaker> though... if it solves the problem, you could commit it ;-)
20:18:39  <Ammler> DJNekkid: your alignment works with the longer waggons?
20:18:40  <Chris_Booth> Ammler: OT?
20:18:52  <Ammler> off topic :-)
20:19:19  <Chris_Booth> ooh yeah well you ignored me in #openttdcoop
20:25:36  <DJNekkid> Ammler: yes, works with 32px and 16px wagons
20:25:45  <DJNekkid> 16 in / and \ viewes
20:26:15  <DJNekkid> well, 22 even :)
20:26:16  <planetmaker> that's interesting.
20:26:25  <planetmaker> Good to know
20:30:27  <DJNekkid> i did "hg diff"
20:30:47  <DJNekkid> what files does it write?
20:32:29  <DJNekkid> nvm
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20:34:35  <DJNekkid>
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20:36:09  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Bug #677: Alignment of maglev wagons @ (by DJNekkid)
20:47:54  <planetmaker> Maybe you want to make it completely right. For all views, DJNekkid ? :-)
20:48:20  <planetmaker> Maybe even for OpenGFX? :-D
20:49:42  <DJNekkid> that is the only view affevted
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20:54:18  <planetmaker> hm... ok
20:54:23  <planetmaker> I'll check it out. Thanks
20:57:23  <DJNekkid> :D
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21:17:15  <Ammler> hmm, skidd doesn't like my dedicated support in the spec file...
21:17:35  <Ammler> anway, nice he gave Feedback
21:48:32  <Ammler> is it possible to check a download link without downloading it?
22:15:17  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Bug #688: shore tiles @ (by planetmaker)
22:18:58  <Ammler> planetmaker: did you already test it, is it true?
22:19:50  <planetmaker> not yet. I'm playing with wagon and engine offsets
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