Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 27th December 2009:
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00:04:32  <Ammler> PeterT: you know, sav is already compressed, no need to rar ;-)
00:04:48  <PeterT> What do you mean?
00:05:01  <PeterT> I just wanted it all to be together?
00:05:41  <Ammler> ah, that is some windows thing, nvm.
00:06:50  <PeterT> :-)
00:06:57  <PeterT> So, do you know why it crashed?
00:07:42  <Ammler> no, I have no idea about the code ;-)
00:08:53  <PeterT> You write patches, though?
00:09:04  <Ammler> not really
00:09:26  <Ammler> I write patches like I write nfo
00:09:39  <Ammler> well, nfo I already do a bit better :-)
00:10:28  <PeterT> Ammler: Care to join/watch our game at #jonty?
00:10:45  <Ammler> which is version?
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01:04:03  <Ammler>
01:04:13  <Ammler> I forgot to move the rbot :-)
01:04:23  <Ammler> that is a task for tomorrow :-)
01:14:35  <Ammler> @topic add "ATTENTION: Server changed IP, you might get warnings about it: Fingerprint:"
01:14:36  *** Webster changes topic to "SERVER IS DOWN FOR A BIT | Talk about things hosted and developed on | Logs: | Downloads log: | ATTENTION: Server changed IP, you might get warnings about it: Fingerprint:"
01:15:01  <Ammler> @topic remove 1
01:15:01  *** Webster changes topic to "Talk about things hosted and developed on | Logs: | Downloads log: | ATTENTION: Server changed IP, you might get warnings about it: Fingerprint:"
01:15:11  <Ammler> @unop
01:15:17  <Ammler> @deop
01:15:17  *** Webster sets mode: -o Ammler
01:15:19  <Ammler> :-)
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01:18:28  <Ammler> Hirundo: <-- you might have forgotten to merge?
01:23:20  <Hirundo> having 2 heads is intentional
01:24:26  <Ammler> hmm, but
01:24:41  <Ammler> i.e. the patch is only 60kB
01:25:07  <Ammler> and petert already reported assert
01:25:10  <KenjiE20> 60kb is a fair chunk of plain text mind
01:25:43  <KenjiE20> not saying it's right or wrong though
01:26:37  <Ammler> <-- I compared with older releases
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01:27:18  <KenjiE20> fairy snuff
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01:29:39  <Hirundo> Assert is trunk issue :( I didn't merge that rev with IS
01:30:13  <Ammler> Hirundo: how do I update to another rev now?
01:30:29  <Ammler> > hg up IS2.0-beta5
01:30:30  <Ammler> abort: crosses branches (use 'hg merge' or 'hg update -C')
01:30:32  <Hirundo> another trunk rev?
01:31:02  <Hirundo> to what rev do you want to update?
01:31:04  <Ammler> with -C, :-)
01:32:18  <Ammler> Hirundo: could you try to join the server
01:32:35  <Ammler> just something to if it connects
01:32:41  <Ammler> like incomming or so
01:32:56  <Hirundo> which server?
01:32:56  <PeterT> which server is this ammler?
01:33:07  <Ammler> Hirundo: the repo
01:33:29  <Ammler> PeterT: this is
01:33:32  <PeterT> Ah
01:33:34  <Hirundo> PuTTY complains about the key
01:33:54  <Ammler> Hirundo: it complains about changed Fingerprint?
01:34:06  <Hirundo> sort of
01:34:21  <Ammler> can you confirm that and confinue?
01:34:29  <Hirundo> I've told it to ignore the issue and now it works fine
01:34:38  <Ammler> ok
01:34:45  <Ammler> how if you join a 2nd time?
01:35:51  <Hirundo> hg incoming works with no complaints now
01:36:17  <Ammler> fine and cool
01:36:27  <Ammler> I hope I didn't forget something, except rbot
01:36:54  <Ammler> which I will start tomorrow
01:37:33  <PeterT> Hirundo, the crash is still there, even after r18640
01:37:57  <PeterT> Do you need my crash.log and such, again?
01:38:11  <Hirundo> the assert in the smallvector when clicking start server/
01:38:13  <Hirundo> ?
01:38:31  <PeterT> yes
01:38:34  <PeterT> it's still there
01:38:58  <Ammler> hmm, now I see what I forgot :-)
01:39:04  <PeterT> I recompiled a version newer than r18640
01:44:04  <Hirundo> I'll do some quick testing
01:44:27  <PeterT>  Are you on linux? I can give you a binary
01:45:29  <Ammler> PeterT: he is a windows GEEK
01:45:37  <PeterT> ah :-)
01:47:53  <Hirundo> I can confirm that the issue is not IS-related
01:48:17  <Ammler> Hirundo: but but
01:48:28  <Ammler> why is the patch just 60kB?
01:48:38  <Hirundo> because there are no individual settings
01:48:44  <PeterT> Hirundo: can i file a bug?
01:48:52  <Hirundo> not yet
01:49:16  <Hirundo> despite being a windows geek I do have a compiler and debugger
01:49:34  <Ammler> :-P
01:49:59  <Ammler> !s/despite/because/
01:51:43  <Hirundo> too bad almost everything depends on SmallVector, so recompiling takes time
01:51:57  <PeterT> I do get the same crash in the nightlies
01:52:02  * PeterT files a bug report
01:55:49  <Hirundo> Please do, I'm too tired to fix now
01:55:53  <Hirundo> :)
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01:56:38  * Hirundo blames the trunk devs
01:56:47  <Hirundo> goodnight all
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09:01:23  <andythenorth> morning
09:01:39  <andythenorth> Ammler: RSA keys changed?  Server move?
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10:14:28  <Ammler> andythenorth: yes
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11:32:38  <andythenorth> Ammler: what do I need to change?  I can't push at the moment...
11:33:20  <Ammler> what does it output?
11:33:39  <Ammler> maybe you need to remove the entry in known_hosts
11:33:58  <Ammler> so it does again ask for confirm
11:35:08  <Ammler> andythenorth: ^
11:36:19  <andythenorth> ok
11:36:26  <andythenorth> known_hosts is not a pretty file to read!
11:38:03  <Ammler> is the devzone the only server you need ssh?
11:38:09  <Ammler> then you can remove it
11:38:23  <andythenorth> fixed
11:38:31  <andythenorth> (I think(
11:38:45  <Ammler> rbot isn't on now
11:39:27  <andythenorth> had one abort, then it seems to have worked....I'll paste some output...
11:39:41  <andythenorth>
11:39:47  <andythenorth> that was the abort
11:41:28  <Zuu> ssh usually output which line number in known_hosts that has a violating ssh key, so that you can just go to that line and remove it.
11:46:35  <Ammler> oh, I forgot the hook
11:56:12  <andythenorth> :)
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16:07:49  <PeterT> Hirundo: Are you going to release a quickfix for IS2.1 so that people can run servers?
16:09:59  <Ammler> IS2.1.1 :-)
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18:24:47  <planetmaker> hello
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18:30:14  <andythenorth> hai hai
18:31:46  <andythenorth> pdq2s-macbook-3:heqs_build andy$ hg push
18:31:46  <andythenorth> remote: ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
18:31:46  <andythenorth> abort: no suitable response from remote hg!
18:31:51  <andythenorth> Ammler!!
18:32:01  <andythenorth> :P
18:38:58  <planetmaker> andythenorth: confirmed. Not your fault
18:39:11  <andythenorth> :)
18:52:18  <planetmaker> hm... I have no means to ssh to this server :-(
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19:11:07  <planetmaker> andythenorth: works now
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19:14:33  <andythenorth> planetmaker: yup
19:15:05  <Ammler> @topic add Server is very much down until the next year
19:15:05  *** Webster changes topic to "Talk about things hosted and developed on | Logs: | Downloads log: | ATTENTION: Server changed IP, you might get warnings about it: Fingerprint: | Server is very much down until the next year"
19:15:37  <Ammler> don't complain, do something else :-P
19:15:47  <planetmaker> hm
19:17:02  <Ammler> I have no idea, how to solve those issues.
19:17:17  <Ammler> (yet)
19:18:07  <planetmaker> I got
19:18:09  <planetmaker>  PTY allocation request failed on channel 0
19:18:11  <planetmaker> shell request failed on channel 0
19:18:27  <planetmaker> there are a few ways in the web what to do... but... not sure which :-)
19:18:44  <Ammler> feel free to experiment, can't go worse
19:19:36  <Ammler> an idea would be to change myslq from sockets to TCP
19:19:47  <Ammler> but I would guess, that needs sockets too
19:20:38  <planetmaker> well... the issue was that ssh failed completely for me w/o reboot
19:20:55  <planetmaker> and there's talk that it is a kinda missing mount of /dev/pts or alike
19:21:29  <planetmaker> or do you think it's been the same memory issue "as usual"?
19:21:40  <Ammler> yes
19:21:48  <planetmaker> hm
19:22:08  <Ammler> if the memory limit is reahced you can't run a simple ps ... on the server
19:22:30  <Ammler> or worst, you can't run kill to get some free memory
19:22:41  <planetmaker> hm, ok.
19:23:09  <planetmaker> let's see if I play around with, how much more screwed up it can get :-)
19:23:12  <Ammler> I rebooted today already twice :-)
19:23:16  <planetmaker> :-(
19:24:03  <planetmaker> and the reboot script didn't work it out? Or is that disabled?
19:24:22  <Ammler> it is enabled, but rbot isn't running yet
19:24:30  <planetmaker> aye
19:24:31  <Ammler> ti writes to a logfile
19:25:01  <Ammler> as you see, memory limit reached again
19:25:25  <Ammler> hmm, maybe it is bash?
19:25:36  <planetmaker> ... true. unbelievable
19:29:52  <Ammler> hmm, I guess, the Music man doesn't get me
19:30:14  <planetmaker> what did he write?
19:30:41  <Ammler> I would handle the music like newgrfs
19:30:59  <planetmaker> in the devzone? Or...?
19:31:26  <planetmaker> OpenTTD has the feature of music sets,... not sure yet what additional information besides the midis they need.
19:31:31  <Ammler> well, my anser to the Music Replacement Thread
19:31:33  <planetmaker> I'd treat it rather like OpenG/SFX
19:32:20  <Ammler> musc isn't essential to run openttd
19:33:15  <Ammler> and that way, if someone has made a midi file, he could upload it to bananas
19:33:17  <Ammler> and fine
19:33:54  <Ammler> else he needs to agree with the same license as the pack and then to wait unitl the pack (30 files) is done.
19:34:37  <Ammler> if they ever get 30 midi songs, they can then think about a pack.
19:35:36  <planetmaker> Well... both makes sense IMO
19:36:23  <planetmaker> And then the idea would be the "no music set" and a new newgrf action which overrides a certain song.
19:36:43  <Ammler> well, no music is already there :-)
19:42:05  <Ammler> oh, I see, the gm files are very small..
19:42:22  <Ammler> nevermind then, I thought they are bigger than mp3 :-)
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19:53:13  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I have a templating question...
19:56:30  <planetmaker> andythenorth: DCC doesn't work with my bouncer....
19:56:41  <planetmaker> can you copy&paste to e.g. or alike?
19:56:57  <andythenorth> it's more a conceptual question / request for help
19:57:30  <andythenorth> I would like FIRS to feature variable cargo payment rates
19:57:45  <andythenorth> I've decided to do these as presets, not random
19:57:52  <andythenorth> they would be selected from a parameter
19:58:12  <planetmaker> right
19:58:15  <andythenorth> I need to template the variables for the cargos
19:58:40  <planetmaker> Ok... I guess it's best done via action 6s... or?
19:58:53  <andythenorth> I think I can figure out the nfo side
19:59:13  <andythenorth> might just be brutal action 7, and a lot of action 0s
19:59:18  <andythenorth> which is easy with pnfo :D
19:59:36  <andythenorth> pnfo = win
19:59:58  <andythenorth> say there are 9 presets, and 30 cargos, I need some way to define and store those variables
20:00:14  <andythenorth> possibly in one file, possibly in separate files
20:02:04  <andythenorth> (afk for 10 mins)
20:02:17  <planetmaker> ok... so one parameter basically is just a scaling factor to the payment for all cargos (all the same scaling)?
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20:10:49  <Ammler> andythenorth: you might also check Action6
20:12:08  <planetmaker> [20:58]	<planetmaker>	Ok... I guess it's best done via action 6s... or? :-D <-- Ammler ;-)
20:13:31  <Zuu> *someone* should mention in the OpenMSX thread that it is only a subset of the midi format that is supported by OpenTTD.
20:14:53  <Ammler> MSX :-D
20:15:07  <Ammler> MuSiX
20:16:31  <Ammler> oh, sorry pm, just read "[20:58] <andythenorth> might just be brutal action 7, and a lot of action 0s"
20:20:45  <planetmaker> that was his answer. I don't think it's a good choice, though ;-)
20:21:25  <andythenorth> (back)
20:22:14  <Ammler> andythenorth: why is it easier to load something up to tt-forums than to banans?
20:22:25  <andythenorth> Ammler: you mean the HEQS test?
20:22:29  <Ammler> yes
20:22:42  <Ammler> well, not just
20:22:50  <andythenorth> forums has a feedback mechanism
20:22:54  <andythenorth> BaNaNaS doesn't
20:23:09  <andythenorth> forums has more engaged active players who are more likely to file bug reports
20:23:11  <Ammler> hmm, ok.
20:23:19  <andythenorth> it's not a release
20:23:21  <andythenorth> also
20:23:45  <Ammler> well, you could also write, that you just uploaded a test grf to banans :-)
20:24:27  <andythenorth> but if there is a problem, that is likely to break games for many users of HEQS
20:24:47  <andythenorth> unless I have two versions on Bananas = confusing
20:29:56  <Ammler> hmm
20:30:01  <andythenorth> back to FIRS
20:30:02  <Ammler> yes, that wouldn't work anyway
20:30:14  <andythenorth> Action 7 looks better than action 6
20:30:18  <Ammler> you would need another id
20:31:02  <andythenorth> for each preset, every cargo would have a unique payment rate
20:32:23  <andythenorth> I am thinking of different 'economies'
20:32:41  <andythenorth> so a 'Mining' economy, a 'Farming' economy etc
20:32:57  <andythenorth> I have 9 planned
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20:39:43  <planetmaker> ...
20:40:06  <planetmaker> sometimes it's a bit difficult...
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21:10:28  <Ammler> is it a bit better now?
21:14:52  <planetmaker> what did you change, Ammler ?
21:15:02  <Ammler> I removed some apache modules
21:15:39  <planetmaker> oh, ok
21:15:57  <Ammler> I will commit it, if it works better ;-)
21:16:15  <planetmaker> what modules are those? Or rather: what do we need and what do we have?
21:18:47  <Ammler> check /etc/sysconfig/apache2
21:19:02  <Ammler> I kept the old config commented
21:20:40  <Ammler> he, Hirundo, didn't go long until someone complained about the removed settings :-P
21:24:35  <Hirundo> not really unexpected :)
21:25:34  <Hirundo> although he does need to learn the use of capitals and punctuation because without them long sentences like this become really hard to read since they are too long
21:29:21  <Hirundo> does redmine support mercurial queues?
21:31:36  <Ammler> well
21:31:55  <Ammler> Hirundo:  on what would you like it based?
21:32:03  <Ammler> trunk or a "base is"?
21:32:21  <Hirundo> trunk
21:32:28  <Ammler> if you still like to keep a base is, you could make a subproject for the queue
21:32:38  <Hirundo> 'base is' would be a subset of 'full is' in an ideal world
21:32:43  <Ammler> for trunk, just use a repo for it
21:33:45  <Hirundo> a repo of the .hg/patches dir?
21:35:52  <Ammler> yes, that is how it works :-)
21:35:57  <Ammler> read the book
21:36:06  <Ammler> I guess, they suggest some hacks
21:36:28  <Ammler> ->
21:36:29  <Webster> Title: OpenTTD / trunk / overview — (at
21:36:52  <Ammler> so we can use that as backup repo
21:37:04  <Ammler> trunk is in daily siny
21:37:09  <Ammler> sync*
21:37:23  <planetmaker> daily sin
21:37:25  <planetmaker> I like that
21:38:09  <Hirundo> Second link requires sign in
21:38:27  <Ammler> I could do it then
21:38:35  <Ammler> it is just for backup
21:39:00  <Ammler> hmm, shall we call it IS3?
21:39:57  <Ammler> planetmaker: Hirundo, btw. did you see my patch to make the compile farm also making right release name?
21:40:07  <Ammler> ticket*
21:40:14  <planetmaker> no. where?
21:40:40  <Hirundo> Dev server seems down
21:40:46  <Hirundo> Rails application failed to start properly
21:40:49  <planetmaker> aaaaarg!
21:40:53  <Ammler> :-D
21:41:56  <Ammler> for me, it isn't sad anymore, sorry...
21:42:40  <Hirundo> The server has memory issues?
21:43:11  <Ammler> yes, very much
21:43:36  <Ammler> I am not able to fix it.
21:44:54  <planetmaker> no, it's not sad. It's... annoying... :-(
21:46:55  <Hirundo> Ammler: Yes, I have seen your change
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21:51:11  <Ammler> I changed again something
21:51:37  <Ammler>  MaxRequestsPerChild   50
21:52:37  <PeterT> Anything happening, ammler?
21:53:06  <Ammler> to?
21:53:23  <Ammler> I have some glitches on our server ;-)
21:53:31  <Ammler> very small one, gäll pm :-P
21:55:26  <Hirundo> <Ammler>	I guess, they suggest some hacks <- You mean what is suggested here:
21:55:27  <Webster> Title: Using Mercurial Queues and | Ches Martin's Unimaginatively-Titled Blog (at
21:57:02  <Ammler> Hirundo: dunno, I meant client side
21:57:13  <Ammler> also mentioned in the hg book, iirc
21:59:16  <Ammler> we do in a daily basis pull the trunk to our server:
21:59:23  <Ammler> that I do then push to bitbucket
22:10:08  <Ammler> Hirundo: I would say, just clone your .hg/patches to or something
22:11:16  <Ammler> but we need to documentation mqueue a bit
22:11:21  <Hirundo> Will it then be possible to get the full source with IS applied, somehow?
22:11:39  <Ammler> that is what we need to documentation, how to do that
22:11:40  <Hirundo> Which is needed when, for example, running the compile farm
22:11:51  <Ammler> and i would make a script which does do that daily
22:12:02  <Hirundo> I'm currently reading the HG book
22:12:59  <Ammler> we can still use the is repo for the compile
22:13:09  <Ammler> but afaik, the compile does also support patches
22:15:59  <Ammler> Hirundo: what was the reson, you decided against branches and for patch queue?
22:16:48  <Hirundo> If I use branches, trunk is effectively the "bottommost" branch that all others depend on
22:17:10  <Ammler> yes, trunk is default like now
22:17:27  <Hirundo> i.e. each trunk sync requires around 15 merges, each with their merge changeset
22:18:05  <Ammler> you need to merge for every branch?
22:18:28  <Ammler> hmm, ok
22:18:51  <Ammler> did you make the last trunk sync with patch queue already?
22:18:59  <Hirundo> Similar to, I think
22:20:23  <Ammler> iirc, michi_cc didn't do that with yapp
22:20:50  <Hirundo> What did he do at that time?
22:21:09  <Ammler> just one head like you
22:22:28  <Hirundo> Then how did he split it before it got committed? IIRC there were dozens of commits in trunk
22:23:25  <Hirundo> Trunk merge is pretty trivial btw, only one include-related collision
22:25:17  <Ammler> Rubidium: did that
22:25:30  <Ammler> michi_cc has one head per patch
22:25:46  <Ammler>;a=summary
22:25:54  <Ammler> yapp isn't there anymore
22:27:05  <Ammler> hmm, maybe there was fs ticket about?
22:30:58  <Hirundo> lots of commits here, no FS referenced as far as I can see
22:32:31  <Ammler> did you ask Rubidium, how they did it?
22:33:00  <Hirundo> no(t yet)
22:34:20  <Ammler> :-)
22:35:14  <Hirundo> I will do some local testing with patch repos tomorrow
22:35:21  <Hirundo> goodnight for now :)
22:35:35  <Ammler> is there any part in is, which could be used alone?
22:35:50  <Ammler> that is imo the only sense to split it :-)
22:36:30  <Ammler> hmm, you could also merge changesets
22:37:42  <Ammler> you should check how well it works with merging trunk :-)
22:38:02  <Ammler> if it is harder than in the repo itslef, not worth imo.
22:38:49  <Ammler> as long, as no dev is interested in the patch, you should make your life the easiest ;-)
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