Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 6th January 2010:
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08:59:14  <andythenorth> Ammler: (sorry to say) redmine is throwing a 500 error on the opengfx repo page :|
09:00:15  <andythenorth> ah, it's back again.
09:01:41  <planetmaker> andythenorth, at the moment that's unfortunately happening a lot
09:02:19  <planetmaker> going for some roads from there? ;-)
09:02:31  <planetmaker> actually... you could also re-use the sprites from the small airport.
09:02:43  <planetmaker> might even be more suitable. It's a grassy landing strip there.
09:02:51  <planetmaker> more suitable for a survey camp
09:13:45  <andythenorth> planetmaker: that's what I'm doing :)
09:13:57  <andythenorth> I don't need the sprites, just the numbers in the base tile set
09:14:03  <andythenorth> I've got those
09:14:11  <planetmaker> right. yes.
09:14:33  <planetmaker> andythenorth, for those purposes it's quite interesting to just use a de-compiled opengfx grf
09:14:40  <planetmaker> the pcx has the numbers nicely :-)
09:14:52  <andythenorth> I should get one of those...
09:15:13  <planetmaker> though I wonder: does grfcodec -d work for you?
09:15:30  <planetmaker> it works for me for NFO, but produces only bogus pcx (broken headers)
09:15:31  <andythenorth> probably, haven't tried yet
09:15:40  <planetmaker> I'm talking about the mac version
09:15:55  <andythenorth> grfcodec -d also tends to choke on large grfs
09:16:08  <andythenorth> I'm afk for a bit...
09:16:13  <planetmaker> hm, maybe I should try also the download version of it, produced by OpenTTD's compile farm.
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10:26:44  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 426: Change: hide Dredging Site (unfinished); Survey Cam... <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 425: Change: shifted IDs for station texts <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 424: Change: shifted IDs for station texts <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 423: Add: nfo file for survey camp <> || Redmine - Revision 3123: Fixed: error when downloading a file with no matching mime type (#3782). <>
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14:05:57  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: #openttdcoop - Document: Animated palette <>
14:21:21  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 429: Add: nfo file for Wind Farm <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 428: Add: pcx file for Wind Farm <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 427: Add: partial source for Wind Farm <>
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15:55:42  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 431: Fix: fish processor was using wrong tiles <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 430: Change: removed some unfinished industries from the... <>
17:06:34  <DJNekkid> any judgement on the wagon-stuff?
17:14:56  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 432: Change: improved colour for Wind Farm <>
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19:15:31  <DJNekkid> Guest981 / Planetmaker: that stuff i wrote last night seem to work quite nicely...
19:15:54  <DJNekkid> some slight mods here or there, but the basic were awsome basicly :P
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19:46:15  <DJNekkid> hi andythenorth :)
19:46:33  <andythenorth> hai hai
19:46:40  <DJNekkid> how are u doing?
19:46:40  <andythenorth> I am unusually grumpy today
19:46:56  * DJNekkid runs and hides, and STFU's
19:47:10  <andythenorth> this thread annoys me.  It shouldn't, but it does anyways:
19:47:11  <andythenorth>
19:47:12  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - How about a RRT industries set? (at
19:47:43  <DJNekkid> yea, i saw that one...
19:48:41  <andythenorth> I should know better than to be annoyed :P
19:48:51  <andythenorth> "I'm sure that if someone gets a good coding start on this project, any new graphics would come pouring in"
19:48:52  <DJNekkid> you are just human after alll...
19:49:09  <andythenorth> George did loads for ECS and no graphics came pouring in for him
19:49:59  <andythenorth> Serious question: FIRS might be over-stocked with industries
19:50:15  <KenjiE20> that's not a question :P
19:50:20  <andythenorth> :D
19:50:25  <DJNekkid> i know only one GFX artist that is able to pour out gfx...
19:50:36  <andythenorth> MB?
19:50:42  <DJNekkid> zyph
19:50:49  <andythenorth> Zeph indeed
19:51:04  <DJNekkid> hehe
19:51:34  <andythenorth> Serious question: is FIRS over-stocked with industries?
19:51:49  <Ammler> DJNekkid: MB is opposite
19:51:50  <andythenorth>
19:51:52  <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for Open Transport Tycoon (at
19:52:09  <DJNekkid> doesnt it use most available slots?
19:52:20  <andythenorth> 57 in most climates
19:52:22  <Ammler> his graphics are mostly simple perfect
19:53:54  <andythenorth> at least 5 FIRS industries should be houses, leaving 52
19:54:42  <andythenorth> RT2 had 35 industries
19:54:45  <andythenorth> RT3 had about 48
19:54:58  <DJNekkid> then no; you arent overstocked
19:55:17  <andythenorth> Already I've seen a few comments that FIRS spams the map.  It might be a valid point.
19:55:26  <Ammler> andythenorth: it is, but you don't need to use everything
19:55:37  <andythenorth> planetmaker was suggesting a 'lite' mode
19:55:40  <Ammler> it just makes it very hard to use
19:56:02  <Ammler> i agree with pm
19:56:39  <andythenorth> It would be better to cull some now, before too many are finished
19:58:08  <Ammler> we tell to eveyone who likes to use ECS not to take all at once, instead starting with 1-3 vectors.
19:58:40  <DJNekkid> but ...
19:58:44  <DJNekkid> in FIRS ...
19:58:57  <DJNekkid> arent there usually like 3ish industries that basicly "does the same" ?
19:59:14  <andythenorth> in quite a few cases, yes
20:00:13  <Ammler> imo, FIRS has already enough and how much is done, the half?
20:00:42  <andythenorth> let me check...
20:01:27  <andythenorth> About 42 coded, about 21 left to cde
20:01:29  <andythenorth> code /s
20:01:38  <Ammler> so 2/3 done
20:01:53  <andythenorth> yes.  and some industries remaining are climate-dependent, or should be houses
20:02:00  <andythenorth>
20:02:02  <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for Open Transport Tycoon (at
20:02:13  <andythenorth> ^^ list isn't 100% up to date, but close
20:03:20  <andythenorth> Shall we play a game of yes / no?
20:03:22  <andythenorth> :D
20:03:26  <andythenorth> Coal mine?
20:03:32  <andythenorth> In or out?
20:03:48  <Ammler> well, I would tell to everything "In"
20:04:03  <Ammler> that is the issue :-P
20:04:07  <andythenorth> that is the problem :D
20:04:28  <andythenorth> Glass works?
20:04:32  <andythenorth> I never bloody use it
20:04:51  <Ammler> I only once played with FIRS some months ago
20:05:02  <andythenorth> try a game soon :)
20:05:20  <DJNekkid> my thoughts about firs:
20:05:23  <DJNekkid> never tried it
20:05:41  <DJNekkid> but i think it will be rather awsome when its done, but it require a quite large map...
20:06:01  <DJNekkid> 1024^2 or so...
20:06:08  <andythenorth> I've played 2 games on 256x512
20:06:33  <andythenorth> It looks confusing, but build a rail line for something like coal, then just start connecting up the rest....
20:06:35  <Ammler> FIRS isn't much different from ECS with parameter 15
20:06:42  <Ammler> gameplay wise
20:06:59  <DJNekkid> whats paramter 15?
20:07:10  <DJNekkid> *parameter
20:07:21  <Ammler> diabled all the special callbacks
20:08:45  <andythenorth> Hmmm....if I scrapped the 'parts' cargo things would get more interesting...
20:08:48  <andythenorth>
20:08:49  <Ammler> but I wouldn't play ECS with parameter 15 in a single player game
20:08:50  <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for Open Transport Tycoon (at
20:08:57  <Ammler> that is what ECS makes the fun
20:10:08  <Ammler> hmm, it that tt-foundry domain on a home server?
20:11:01  <andythenorth> is it very slow right now?
20:11:50  <Ammler> the dns was down
20:12:06  <Ammler> a 1&1
20:12:13  <Ammler> yeah, they have some dns issues
20:12:28  <Ammler> works again
20:13:08  <Ammler> what about time dependencies
20:13:22  <Ammler> some industries disapear after 2000
20:13:39  <Ammler> some don't appear before 2000
20:13:46  <andythenorth> yep, and earlier also
20:14:13  <DJNekkid> anyone of you wanna pull 2cc set, and try to build?
20:14:26  <DJNekkid> im not 100% sure if i did put all files in...
20:14:48  * andythenorth coding something (work), but if no-one else can help, I'll try...
20:15:08  <Ammler> maybe it is my own dns
20:15:23  <Ammler> DJNekkid: run hg st
20:15:46  <DJNekkid> prints a list of stuff... :D
20:16:06  <DJNekkid> looks ok tho...
20:17:17  <DJNekkid> Ammler:
20:17:19  <DJNekkid> view this file:
20:17:20  <DJNekkid>
20:17:27  <DJNekkid> i think it might be something you might like :)
20:17:39  <Ammler> hmm, I have same issue as Hirundo once reported
20:17:44  <Ammler> can't clone
20:19:19  <Ammler> yes, this looks indeed very cool
20:19:47  <Ammler> imo, we should start to make a generic newgrf Makefile
20:20:07  <DJNekkid> look at line 163, 203 etc ... and line 459
20:22:06  <DJNekkid> there is one thing i'd like to put into the makefile tho...
20:22:08  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 419: Add: Framework for freight wagons; Probably abit too much in one go... <>
20:22:28  <DJNekkid> tr -s , \n <a0.txt >action0.pnfo
20:22:47  <DJNekkid> plus a0wag.txt + action0wagons.pnfo
20:23:42  <Ammler> hmm?
20:24:36  <Ammler> or maybe the whole thing should be made with a higher language like python or such
20:25:55  <andythenorth> yay
20:25:57  <andythenorth> or not
20:27:58  <andythenorth> mmm....I have just written a list comprehension in python
20:28:10  <andythenorth>   total = sum([weekly_bookings['all'][i]['total'] for i in range(0, num_weeks)])
20:28:37  <andythenorth> in nfo action 2  that would be something like....
20:28:38  <andythenorth> ...
20:28:39  <andythenorth> ...
20:28:49  <andythenorth> oh no, I forgot, it would be insane :)
20:33:34  <DJNekkid> btw, i've ordered a new laptop :)
20:35:31  <andythenorth> any fruit on it?
20:36:45  <DJNekkid> no...
20:36:53  <DJNekkid> just hardware :P
20:37:08  <DJNekkid> concidering 64bit linux, but not sure...
20:38:43  <Ammler> DJNekkid: I am looking for a follower to my laptop too
20:38:55  <DJNekkid> clevo W860
20:39:15  <Ammler> I very much would like to by a DELL, but those have ATI graphic gards
20:39:18  <Ammler> c*
20:39:23  <Ammler> buy*
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20:40:00  <Ammler> hmm, clevo?
20:40:20  <PeterT> topic is outdated
20:40:26  <PeterT> " Server is very much down until the next year"
20:40:35  <Rubidium> yeah, ATI graphic cards suck... although recently it has been remarkedly stable
20:40:42  <Ammler> PeterT: well, let us wait a day
20:41:08  <Ammler> Rubidium: you need to wait around 2 weeks after a kernel update until you get a new driver.
20:41:32  <DJNekkid> Ammler: you might try "Sager W860" instead?
20:41:33  <Rubidium> Ammler: not such a big problem for me anymore :)
20:41:51  <DJNekkid> Clevo is the producer of a nonbranded laptop series
20:41:55  <Ammler> well, I could build those self too, but...
20:42:15  <DJNekkid> and various resellers build them with tailormade parts...
20:42:19  <Ammler> it is just an indicator how well they support and care about Linux
20:42:46  <DJNekkid> and this particular computer have gotten really good reviews...
20:43:01  <DJNekkid> my wife did get one this time last year, or, the previous model...
20:43:04  <Ammler> sager doesn't say me something either
20:43:31  <Ammler> is that a norwegian label only?
20:43:42  <DJNekkid> no...
20:43:52  <DJNekkid> that is the european brand or something
20:43:57  <DJNekkid> this is the norwegian one:
20:43:57  <DJNekkid>;c:100561;fl:0
20:44:10  <Ammler> ah goolge knows :-P
20:45:22  <DJNekkid> but if that link works, you can see how you can tailormade the computer a'la dell
20:46:15  <DJNekkid> *make
20:46:29  <Ammler> well, at least geforce :-)
20:46:56  <DJNekkid> the only downside of that computer, is rather low batterycapacity
20:47:15  <DJNekkid> but that is due to the fact it got rather beefy hardware
20:47:42  <Rubidium> hmm... only 1920x1080... I'm gonna miss those 230400 pixels
20:48:05  <DJNekkid> i ordered mine with 1600x900 or whatever it is
20:48:20  <Ammler> mine has 1440x900, which is enough
20:49:06  <Ammler> I wouldn't like to zoom all the time :-)
20:49:14  <DJNekkid> hehe
20:49:16  <DJNekkid> me either
20:50:13  <Ammler> well, my current laptop is simple the best I had so far, I would very much like the same again, just more power/memory/akku
20:50:14  <DJNekkid> there is a big brother also btw ... if you are looking for a desktop-laptop :P
20:50:21  <DJNekkid>;c:100560;fl:0
20:50:24  <Ammler> no
20:50:43  <Ammler> I have now Inspiron 6400 15"
20:51:08  <Rubidium> I had an Inspiron 6000 15", now a Studio 15
20:51:22  <Ammler> studio's have ATI
20:51:25  <Rubidium> anyhow, the bigger brother still leaves me with those 230400 pixels less
20:51:36  <Ammler> and the Alien things are very ugly.
20:52:15  <DJNekkid>
20:52:16  <Webster> Title: custom gaming laptops - Welcome to Sager Notebooks (at
20:52:48  * Rubidium is happy as long as 2D works and the X driver support XV
20:54:25  <Ammler> DJNekkid: if you compare to dell
20:54:45  <Ammler> dell is best in price and power
20:54:54  <Ammler> and support
20:55:07  <Rubidium> Ammler: does Dell make a commercial about being so cheap because they got no shops?
20:55:24  <Rubidium> in Germany that is
20:55:25  <Ammler> :-)
20:55:40  <Ammler> ah, serious question?
20:55:48  <Ammler> dunno.
20:55:49  <Rubidium> yes, a serious question
20:56:01  <Rubidium> because in the NL they say they don't have shops and it's a lie
20:56:24  <Ammler> well, they have the webshop
20:56:45  <Ammler> I am not aware of a physical dell shop
20:57:00  <Rubidium> I've been in a real Dell shop...
20:57:01  <Ammler> or however you call that :-)
20:57:26  <Rubidium> ... okay, it was in Tokyo, but who cares about that?
20:58:54  <Ammler> yeah, I guess those are more promotion shops like the apple things ...
21:00:11  <andythenorth> so far in my life, I've never had cause to say 'Stupid Python"
21:01:27  <Rubidium> andythenorth: then you've not used it on enough platforms yet
21:01:41  <andythenorth> :P
21:01:52  <andythenorth> 'stupid Zope' gets said a lot around here
21:05:46  <Ammler> DJNekkid: how much € is 12 421,-
21:06:23  <Rubidium> ?
21:06:35  <Ammler> Rubidium: didn't know about nok
21:08:13  <Ammler> hmm, so it looks like a good deal
21:09:02  <DJNekkid> Ammler: devide by 8,1 or 8,2
21:09:33  <DJNekkid> todays rate i think were 8,21 kr/euro
21:11:06  <Ammler> DJNekkid: you bought W860?
21:11:22  <DJNekkid> yes
21:11:31  <DJNekkid> a variant to 15.000kr
21:11:38  <DJNekkid> not arrived yet tho
21:12:30  <Ammler> wow, nice, you are able to buy it without crappy windows
21:12:42  <DJNekkid> yes :D
21:15:05  <Ammler> wow, mine would cost 13250
21:15:33  <Ammler> DJNekkid: will you install a linux on it?
21:15:49  <DJNekkid> im concidering it, but im not sure...
21:16:01  <DJNekkid> i do play a good few windows games...
21:16:27  <Ammler> well, the os doesn't need to be excluxive
21:16:46  <Ammler> I used at my linux starts windows quite a lot too
21:16:51  <Rubidium> there's only one thing I'm using Windows for :)
21:17:14  <Rubidium> ... compiling OpenTTD
21:17:19  <Ammler> testing installer :-P
21:17:29  <Rubidium> yeah, and that too
21:17:37  <Ammler> but you do that on vm, don't you?
21:17:44  <Rubidium> ofcourse I'm using a VM
21:18:50  <DJNekkid> my only problem is, i have little or no experience with linux
21:19:03  <DJNekkid> i did use _some_ redhat 6.2 or something once
21:19:24  <Ammler> well, you don't need, it will come automatically
21:20:00  <Ammler> if the hardware is well supported, it is a lot easier to install than windows
21:20:34  <DJNekkid> setting up that "x" used to be a pain iirc
21:20:45  <DJNekkid> but that might come "built in" by now?
21:21:29  <Rubidium> agreed. Been using Debian on my work station for 7 years now, 3 different computers... and migration between computers has been easy (just copying ~ to the new computer). And presto, all settings moved with me
21:22:20  <DJNekkid> but i also bet, by now, are there a "lindows" or something...
21:22:29  <DJNekkid> something that pretty much looks and feels like windows
21:22:37  <DJNekkid> "lindows xp" or something
21:22:50  <Ammler> DJNekkid: since around 2 years, you can use linux as desktop
21:22:51  <Rubidium> I'd advice against doing that
21:23:10  <Rubidium> (doing that being using something that just looks like Windows)
21:23:37  <Rubidium> Ammler: lies... at least 7 years :)
21:23:51  <Ammler> Rubidium: me and djn since 2
21:23:54  <Rubidium> although it all depends on what you want/need
21:24:19  <Ammler> since suse 10.3
21:24:25  <Ammler> KDE 3.5
21:24:37  <DJNekkid> and then its the stuff about what distro to use and blablabla
21:24:38  <Ammler> openoffice 2
21:24:57  <DJNekkid> some seems to be a bit "not so opensource afterall"
21:25:08  <DJNekkid> and needs special this or that
21:25:29  <Rubidium> DJNekkid: that's just hardware vendors not being nice for 90% of the time
21:25:45  <DJNekkid> how?
21:25:53  <DJNekkid> dont provide drivers ?
21:26:28  <Rubidium> DJNekkid: not providing a driver, providing a binary only driver, not providing specs, ...
21:26:43  <DJNekkid> oki :)
21:26:50  <Rubidium> although the "not so opensource afterall" usually is the binary only driver case
21:26:52  <Ammler> DJNekkid: that is why I have to check for the hardware that many different laptops
21:26:57  <Rubidium> e.g. ATI and nvidia
21:26:58  <Ammler> else I would just buy a new dell
21:27:11  <DJNekkid> are ... ehm ... nvidia and intel one of thoose? :)
21:27:15  <Ammler> (which I will do)
21:27:25  <Ammler> intel is best supported
21:27:37  <Rubidium> yes, Intel is certainly the best
21:28:01  <Rubidium> those generally work out of the box, and lately probably even before the hardware is actually released :)
21:28:12  <DJNekkid> hehe
21:28:15  <DJNekkid> and nvidia?
21:28:21  <DJNekkid> arent thoose owned by intel?
21:28:37  <Ammler> but personally, I didn't have issues with my ATI, but currently I read bad things in
21:29:10  <Ammler> nvidia shouldn't be a problem either, at least not on my current laptop
21:29:21  <Rubidium> DJNekkid: according to wiki nVidia isn't owned by Intel
21:29:56  <Rubidium> Ammler: ATI had a rough time in the begin for my laptop, but lately it's been quite fine
21:31:09  <DJNekkid> it might have been ATI that were baught by AMD ?
21:31:52  <Rubidium> yes, ATI is AMD now
21:32:56  <Ammler> DJNekkid: since I use my current laptop, nvidia has all the time a kernel module ready if the kernel updates
21:33:27  <Ammler> so in your case that wouldn't be a issue
21:33:42  <DJNekkid> oki...
21:34:30  <DJNekkid> well, i got a feeling that i might start with some kind of linux...
21:34:31  <Ammler> the ATI pc, I update always a month later
21:34:49  <DJNekkid> and a windows VM-thingy
21:34:58  <DJNekkid> some old 64bit winxp or something...
21:35:27  <DJNekkid> and then after a while i get sick of problems, and i'll install windows 7 :P
21:35:47  <Ammler> well, I would install it from start
21:36:11  <Ammler> you need it for the very high graphics games anyway.
21:36:58  <Ammler> I still have a 30 GP partition with windows, which I boot around once per month
21:37:06  <Ammler> GB*
21:37:50  <Ammler> he, and that is as stable as my linux without any firewall and antivir crap
21:38:21  <Ammler> that is the best thing about Linux, you learn how to use Windows :-P
21:38:39  <Ammler> no, not the best thing, but...
21:40:25  <Ammler> and the best thing I did with my parents was installing Linux there, since then, he doesn't have issues with the system, just with general usage.
21:45:02  <DJNekkid> but, cant i just use some VM-thingy to boot windows?
21:48:26  <Ammler> DJNekkid: of course
21:48:43  <Ammler> around 90% of the windows tools you still would need work with wine
21:48:55  <Ammler> another 9% with a VM
21:49:03  <DJNekkid> so, i can "wine" games? :P
21:49:07  <Ammler> and 1% might need a native boot
21:49:12  <Ammler> DJNekkid: yes
21:49:34  <Ammler> well, I boot windows natively for non-openttd games
21:49:40  <DJNekkid> oki, cool :)
21:50:10  <DJNekkid> mem/cpu issues?
21:50:30  <Ammler> as I said, just install both
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21:50:38  <Ammler> so you don't miss the other
21:50:59  <DJNekkid> yea...
21:51:25  <DJNekkid> point to install linux for me, was that i should not need windows so much
21:51:28  <DJNekkid> hehe
21:51:31  <Ammler> I would also bet, you will quite fast find better linux tools for dj work
21:51:57  <DJNekkid> most are mac orientend afaik
21:52:35  <Ammler> yeah, linux has everything, the best from mac and windows
21:52:53  <DJNekkid> oki :D
21:53:16  <Ammler> but it need a bit starting time, don't expect everything from the first day.
21:53:31  <DJNekkid> i dont :D
21:53:45  <DJNekkid> as long as i can run WoW in linux im happy :P
21:54:00  <Ammler> that might be possible natively
21:54:33  <Ammler> I play only openttd online
21:54:33  <DJNekkid> seem to be a quite long article on wowwiki
21:55:04  <Ammler> and I have no plans to extend that behavior
21:57:39  <Ammler> I would need around a day to setup a windows with all the apps and tools I have on my linux
21:57:52  <Ammler> it needed around 2 hours on linux
21:58:24  <Ammler> and installing a new tool needs another 10 secs
21:58:33  <DJNekkid> yea, i remember that
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23:31:15  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 423: Add: Boxcar (long) <> || 2cc train set - Revision 422: Add: Support for classes in freight template... <> || 2cc train set - Revision 421: Fix: Forgot some change in the last rev <> || 2cc train set - Revision 420: Add: Support for more wagon speeds <>
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