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00:55:45 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 00:56:49 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 01:06:53 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 01:13:56 *** KenjiE20|LT has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 01:14:11 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 01:23:47 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 04:09:08 *** KenjiE20|LT has quit IRC 06:55:26 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:59:03 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:59:38 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:09:57 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:09:30 *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:51:08 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 11:20:40 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 12:07:26 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:06:25 <Ammler> planetmaker: shall we create a kind of inofficial osx bundles repo? 13:20:19 <Rubidium> we'll just offload all bug reports to you :) 13:25:03 <Ammler> did you stop compiling osx builds because of that or does your CF fail to compile now? 13:25:04 <Rubidium> I'm also hoping that this way we 'generate' some publicity in the Mac community 13:25:24 <Rubidium> Ammler: it probably just compiles, it's just disabled 13:25:56 <Ammler> well, the issue is, they post now quite ugly bundles because of the file size limit on tt-forums. 13:27:32 <Rubidium> what bundles? 13:27:54 <Ammler> like the binary only, without license and other data 13:28:07 <Rubidium> that one is gone 13:28:45 <Ammler> yes, but it should be possible somehow 13:29:45 <Rubidium> host it on their own computer? 13:30:12 <Rubidium> the problem with providing Mac OS X binaries is that the Mac community still thinks that it's all fine, when it just isn't 13:30:41 <Rubidium> like... yeah, if you don't do this, that and so then it works quite well... That's just to say, it's horribly broken 13:31:36 <Ammler> well, I have no idea about what's really broken, I just wouldn't like to see those zips like he uploaded... 13:31:44 <Rubidium> and don't get me wrong... but... it all worked *before* they went with Intel 13:32:09 <Rubidium> and since 10.5 it's only getting worse 13:32:38 <Ammler> well, since they went intel, apple became a boring pc 13:33:25 <Ammler> and now they need to try to make it still somehow incompatible 13:33:49 <Ammler> so the "mac mystery" is still around 13:35:38 <Rubidium> but now Mac is nothing more than a white piece of hardware with a glowing half eaten apple 13:35:46 <Ammler> :-) 13:36:21 <Ammler> oh, and don't get me wrong, I don't want to "workaround" your policy, I just wanted to help those mac guys... 13:37:09 <Ammler> poor* :-) 13:37:25 <Rubidium> but *are* you helping them in the long run? 13:38:24 <Ammler> 99% of the mac users can't help you anyway, and they don't have the power to change something either. 13:38:50 <Ammler> apple does rule his users, not opposite :-) 13:39:04 <Rubidium> the wrongly packaged binary on the forum was/is missing some libraries 13:40:36 <Ammler> you might still be the most skilled mac dev around :-P 13:40:49 <Rubidium> Ammler: but the 99% can complain about it at the mac fora and then maybe they see there is interest 13:42:13 <Rubidium> actually... TrueBrain and orudge have a mac these days. TrueBrain just plainly refuses to do any development of the Mac port, orudge has no knowledge (nor time) 13:44:07 <Rubidium> so that basically sums the interest of the Mac community quite nicely. Don't care if it's buggy, won't fix if I possibly can. That's no way to develop/maintain software with a reasonable amount of dignity/pride 14:19:03 *** Zuu has quit IRC 15:07:35 *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:36:50 *** Zuu has quit IRC 17:19:20 *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:37:35 *** ODM has quit IRC 17:44:13 *** Madis has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:25:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:51:05 <andythenorth> planetmaker, Ammler hi hi, hg question... 20:52:00 <Ammler> that isn't a question, is it? 20:53:39 <andythenorth> [embarassed] 20:53:59 <andythenorth> I am about to make some fairly chunky changes in FIRS, that might turn out to be a bad idea 20:54:04 <andythenorth> should I branch or something? 20:55:08 <Ammler> no, but you can branch locally 20:55:43 <Ammler> and if you want, you can branch also remotely :-) 20:55:50 <Ammler> just clone your repo 20:56:08 <Ammler> hg clone firs firs-andy 20:56:13 <andythenorth> then merge later if necessary? 20:56:26 <Ammler> hg clone firs-andy ssh://ottdc@mz.openttdcoop.org/hg-repos/firs-andy 20:56:32 <Ammler> yes 20:56:51 <andythenorth> I'm not really sure what's best. My VCS skills are limited :) 20:57:10 <Ammler> that is the easiest type to branch 20:57:40 <Ammler> it is also possible to branch with hg branch, but that is more complicated and imo in your case not worth to learn 20:58:13 <Ammler> as the branch is more meant as fork, not as branch like main version -> development version 20:58:41 <andythenorth> so in the future case that I only want some of my changes, is a branch easier than reverting specific files? 20:58:48 <Ammler> yes 20:59:02 <Ammler> well, reverting is easy too 20:59:17 <Ammler> hg help backout 20:59:52 <Ammler> but in your case, easiest is to clone current repo 21:00:30 <Ammler> if you like your branch, you can simply push them to the main repo 21:00:33 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 433: Delete: removed redundant Wind Farm PSD file <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/433> 21:00:34 <Ammler> or pull from main repo 21:01:02 <Ammler> if you don't like the change, just trash the branch 21:02:05 <andythenorth> Ammler: sounds simple :) Case: I type 'hg push' in the wrong file system location, and push the wrong branch. What then? 21:02:53 <Ammler> if you type push on the new repo, it will push to your local clone 21:03:19 <Ammler> (you don't clone properities) 21:04:00 <andythenorth> clever thing hg 21:04:46 <Ammler> well, afaik, hg can everything what svn/git and whatever can, just in a more simple way... 21:04:51 <andythenorth> so until I'm happy with my branch, I'd better backup my hd? 21:05:08 <Ammler> why? 21:05:22 <Ammler> the main firs is on the devzone and on bitbucket.org 21:05:48 <Ammler> and I backup the devzone daily to my local fileserver 21:06:29 * andythenorth confused 21:06:32 <Ammler> and the ISP does also create around 3 times per month the whole server 21:06:41 <Ammler> so there are already quite a lot backups ;-) 21:06:44 <andythenorth> so I clone my local repo? 21:06:50 <Ammler> yes 21:06:53 <andythenorth> then push that to my main local repo? 21:07:01 <Ammler> hg clone firs firs-exp 21:07:23 <Ammler> or however you want to call your branch 21:07:40 <Ammler> clone has already push/pull inclusive 21:08:26 <Ammler> and then you clone your branch to the devzone 21:08:49 <Ammler> hg clone firs-exp ssh://ottdc@mz.openttdcoop.org/hg-repos/firs-exp 21:11:19 <Ammler> so you can give others a URL to review 21:11:48 <Ammler> or you create a branch with hg branch :-) 21:12:21 <Ammler> but the disadavantage with hg branch is afaik, that you can't remove it anymore. 21:13:01 <andythenorth> Ok, now I understand it's cloned to the devzone. I missed that somehow 21:14:08 <andythenorth> The most important reason to branch is that nightlies are very likely to break for a while. Certainly they'll break savegames 21:15:31 <andythenorth> Ammler: ^^ I wonder if that matters though? 21:27:17 <Ammler> andythenorth: the question is, do you care? 21:27:53 <andythenorth> I am trying to get into the good habit of not having errors in the nightly 21:27:54 <Ammler> you should not commit something unworky anyway 21:28:11 <Ammler> also not to a branch :-) 21:28:21 <andythenorth> so I'll back up my HD then :) 21:28:32 <Ammler> oh, you get me wrong :-P 21:28:32 <andythenorth> VCS isn't really a backup system, it just gets treated that way 21:29:01 <Ammler> VCS is more than a backup 21:29:32 <Ammler> you know 21:29:42 <Ammler> commit != push 21:30:44 <Ammler> maybe you should talk to other devs, I am not a dev :-) 21:30:51 <andythenorth> ok 21:31:13 <Ammler> but I wouldn't commit something which I know, it will break the compile 21:31:18 <planetmaker> hey ho 21:31:22 <andythenorth> hi hi 21:31:32 <planetmaker> andythenorth, what I do with a couple of changes I'm not sure of: I make a diff 21:31:47 <planetmaker> and only commit what works on its own 21:31:59 <planetmaker> locally and publicly 21:32:34 <andythenorth> makes sense 21:32:35 <Ammler> also what you do with your local clone is up2you 21:32:53 <andythenorth> I'm going to make a local FIRS clone, just because it's no cost and might be useful 21:33:11 <andythenorth> but I'm going to develop in 'trunk' (and I use that term loosely here) 21:33:16 <planetmaker> indeed. For complicated cases I might clone my local one and work in there. Possibly commit it piece-wise small and not 100% tested 21:33:17 <Ammler> yes, and then make a patch against 21:33:28 <Ammler> and publish that as a ticket on devzone 21:33:32 <planetmaker> But then I can get diffs from there, apply it to the main repo and commit that ;-) 21:34:12 <andythenorth> Ok, spending the time to learn to diff now _might_ save some horrible merges later 21:34:24 <Ammler> but also those patches, you post on the devzone shouldn't break the compile ;-) 21:35:00 <planetmaker> In terms of OpenTTD it's called patch ;-9 21:35:04 <planetmaker> :-) 21:35:15 <andythenorth> so how do I do it step by step? 21:35:17 <planetmaker> same thing, just different name 21:35:32 <planetmaker> If you got some changes: hg diff > somefilename.diff 21:35:47 <planetmaker> then you have the changes wrt the version you modified in that file 21:36:08 <planetmaker> if you want to get rid of all of them: hg revert * 21:36:17 <planetmaker> or just in a file: hg revert path/to/file 21:36:23 <Ammler> just be aware, diffs don't work with binaries/images 21:36:30 <planetmaker> good point 21:36:31 <andythenorth> ok 21:36:35 <planetmaker> ty Ammler 21:38:17 <andythenorth> hmm 21:38:21 <andythenorth> it's too late to start on that 21:39:53 <andythenorth> planetmaker: it would be nice to discuss FIRS changes if you have time... 21:39:53 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=846530#p846530 21:39:54 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development (at www.tt-forums.net) 21:40:09 <andythenorth> but nvm if it's not convenient ;) 21:42:28 <planetmaker> oh, changes conceptually 21:42:43 <andythenorth> yup 21:42:50 <andythenorth> including a little bit 'less' 21:43:05 * planetmaker just reads 21:44:16 <planetmaker> Hm... what does factory produce? 21:44:28 <andythenorth> goods 21:44:33 <andythenorth> using parts and packaging 21:44:37 <planetmaker> ah 21:44:41 <andythenorth> I've only used it once in about three games 21:45:03 <andythenorth> foundry produces parts and packaging -> factory. One train, both cargos. boring :) 21:45:16 <planetmaker> hm, yes 21:45:25 <andythenorth> also same for plastic plant -> factory 21:45:27 <planetmaker> It can produce goods straight away 21:45:33 <planetmaker> or both 21:45:48 <planetmaker> I like the idea of reducing complexity a bit. 21:46:34 <andythenorth> me too 21:48:41 <andythenorth> the waste cargo was requested several times on the forums, I thought it would be nice. It's boring to play with though 21:52:12 <planetmaker> Hm... I'd leave waste :-) 21:52:32 <andythenorth> you like it? 22:01:10 <planetmaker> well... I like at least the idea 22:01:29 <planetmaker> Another reason for inner-city transports and for trucks 22:01:39 <planetmaker> HEQS needs then some waste trucks ;-) 22:06:22 <andythenorth> planetmaker: interesting. I thought it would be fun to add waste trucks, but in my test games I didn't haul much waste 22:06:28 <andythenorth> I never haul mail with trucks either 22:06:50 <planetmaker> that explains it then ;-) 22:21:34 *** PeterT has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:21:50 <Rubidium> planetmaker: does the 8bpp blitter work for you, if so, can you confirm my suspicion about FS#3194? 22:28:19 <planetmaker> 8bpp works for me, with animation, yes. I'll check that diff and report back in that FS entry. 22:28:32 <planetmaker> I don't have my lappy at hand right now 22:47:29 <andythenorth> good night 22:47:30 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 22:53:30 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:04:31 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 424: Change: shifted IDs for station texts <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/424> 23:34:46 *** ODM has quit IRC 23:55:13 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone