Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 1st February 2010:
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00:36:15  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Autopilot - Patch #728: live Screenshots (webcam) <>
00:41:27  <dragonhorseboy> ammler nice work there btw.. I wonder why someone decided to build two 3x3 stations in a very odd place in that screenshot.png thats up now tho :p
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00:57:58  <dragonhorseboy> wb djnek-the-coder-kid
00:58:05  * dragonhorseboy hehs (just had to say that)
01:03:06  <dragonhorseboy> no offense meant I hope ;)
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14:25:57  <dragonhorseboy> hey
14:32:12  <Ammler> <-- town will grow there...
14:33:00  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: ^ ;-)
14:33:16  <dragonhorseboy> oh ok
14:33:35  <Ammler> but it is a bit silly, indeed.
14:33:44  <dragonhorseboy> btw how does that thing determine where to take the screenshots or is it manually done?
14:33:57  <Ammler> last action
14:34:21  <Ammler> it saves the location of every action and uses that var when you make a screen
14:34:46  <dragonhorseboy> 3 tiles.. 3 platforms .. hmm .. I probably would had been running shortened GO trains (bilevel cars, canset) or any commuter emus (japanset) to that kind of station if it was ever me playing
14:34:57  <dragonhorseboy> ammler ah I see
14:35:36  <Ammler> the dbset is in use
14:36:02  <dragonhorseboy> dbsetxl? ah hmm.. 2173 ... I guess its one of these 201km/h or faster loco with short coach stock?
14:36:11  <Ammler> btw. the coop ps is public, you are allowed to join ;-)
14:36:35  <dragonhorseboy> LOL the current screenshot is too silly..and I see a "not a CITY" sign :p
14:37:25  <dragonhorseboy> ammler...seeing they don't stick to one build more than once (aside to enforcing only one single style too) I'm not sure about being too bothered with it
14:37:29  <dragonhorseboy> thanks tho ;)
14:38:38  <dragonhorseboy> ammler btw I sometimes don't quite get players that keep building many single lines (sometimes with no loops even) early on and allowing it to bottleneck years later on than just building it double from the start. thats one of the many style difference issues I got
14:38:41  <Ammler> I didn't say you need to stay or build or such, you can also just join to take a closer look and laugh about
14:39:34  <dragonhorseboy> anyway you still working on this or what are you doing now? ;)
14:39:41  <Ammler> of course, if you like to build, you need to respect the rules ;-)
14:39:55  <Ammler> working on what?
14:40:24  <Ammler> we are preparing Avignon to bring it up on our public server
14:42:59  <dragonhorseboy> ammler... you see.. I don't understand why someone tries to stuff 3+ daily trains down a very long single line that causes a month or more of red signal waiting on both sides
14:43:19  <dragonhorseboy> (I'll kinda blame spcomb for doing this a bit often too but eh)
14:43:56  <dragonhorseboy> but for me..well just checking some website stuffs as usual for now but been trying to work on a bit more rough sprites for the new grf of mine
14:44:12  <Ammler> BROS?
14:46:49  <dragonhorseboy> nope.. its a model train grf (so far not leaning toward any particular one yet but I'm thinking lionel 3-rail) .. took me some time to decide how to spec the generic TE for the locomotives
14:47:08  <dragonhorseboy> kinda interesting idea for a change..aside to some minor industries bundle as well
14:48:27  <dragonhorseboy> I do kinda wish there was a list of the callbacks that didn't work in ottd so I could know where I'll have to cut compactibility. but hrm
14:48:37  <dragonhorseboy> we'll just see I guess
14:49:07  <Ammler> are there still some?
14:49:27  <dragonhorseboy> well planet mentioned there's some CB that aren't in openttd
14:49:34  <Ammler> I would guess, the useful callbacks are implemented
14:49:37  <dragonhorseboy> aside to that the patch doesn't support sorted vehicle list and so
14:50:16  <Ammler> if not, then there might simply be a lack of demo grf
14:52:42  <dragonhorseboy> well I'll code it the way it is needed and see whatever bugs up ottd as the grf progresses
14:52:54  <dragonhorseboy> seem like a thought
14:53:17  <Ammler> yes, then create a nice simple demo grf and post it to FS
14:53:55  <dragonhorseboy> dunno..think someone else would have to do that. but likewise lets see what happens
14:54:41  <Ammler> well, if someone is around, he will, but else you should do it.
14:55:01  <Ammler> @seen someone
14:55:01  <Webster> Ammler: someone was last seen in #openttdcoop.devzone 34 weeks, 0 days, 18 hours, 54 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <someone> andythenorth
14:55:29  <Ammler> quite some time ago, I guess, you can't count on "someone"
14:56:15  <dragonhorseboy> hehee :P
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15:02:28  <dragonhorseboy> ammler one of the thing I'm going to try with the grf anyhow is that houses would provide luggage as well. I mean.. not all trains always carry mail especially branch ones
15:03:00  <dragonhorseboy> so should be interesting to see how a loco-baggage-3xcoach consist kind of thing works out :)
15:03:04  <Ammler> @translate luggage
15:05:24  <dragonhorseboy> you do know what people carry with them on trips don't you?
15:08:34  <Ammler> you like to make a cargo for it?
15:10:53  <dragonhorseboy> yeah.. probably as LUGG cargo type ... seeing BAGG just doesn't quite have the same ring to it
15:28:02  <dragonhorseboy> ammler at least PASS and MAIL would remain the same .. just MAIL might have its 1/8 factors reduced a bit due to being occassionally picked up by seperate mail containers instead
15:44:41  <dragonhorseboy> don't think there'll be any other new cargos to define yet .. well . aside to still pondering SHEP industry (as in sheeps)
16:15:09  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Autopilot - Patch #728: live Screenshots (webcam) <>
16:47:12  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Autopilot - Patch #728: live Screenshots (webcam) <>
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19:20:52  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Avignon - Revision 566: -Fix: Fixed a bug in pluginErr not showing the error msg. <> || Avignon - Revision 565: -Fix: Clean-up of openttd start cmd <> || Avignon - Revision 564: -Fix: Fixed errors of screenshot functionality <> || Avignon - Revision 563: -Feature: Support for screenshot command used by OpenTTD <>
20:06:58  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: #openttdcoop Avignon Plugin - Revision 9: -Update: Added "screenshot" cmd and config options <>
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20:34:09  <dragonhorseboy> would it be openttd development or a different forum topic for if you wanted to ask about ottd-specific nfo coding?
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20:34:44  <planetmaker> it would the the graphics forum
20:35:23  <planetmaker> possibly in the technical sub-forum
20:36:02  <dragonhorseboy> hm thanks
20:36:28  <dragonhorseboy> btw how're you? and can you make an alternative Earth for me? lol .. just joking on the earth part :P
20:37:26  <planetmaker> Sorry. Fjords, swamps and rain forrests are out of stock. So no Earth. Maybe a Mars?
20:37:36  <dragonhorseboy> heh nah its ok ;)
20:37:52  <dragonhorseboy> me doing ok anyway..just a bit of a semi-quiet day
20:38:22  <dragonhorseboy> did some sketching (on paper of course...typical for me) on grf sprites.. still have to bother starting much of any of the nfo yet
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20:40:21  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker you got me thinking now tho .. I should think about some rainforest trees
20:40:35  <planetmaker> :-D
20:40:43  <planetmaker> I thought you were working on trains?!
20:41:33  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker well..its actually more of completed set in general
20:41:46  <dragonhorseboy> so that includes some industries (most are already planned)
20:42:02  <dragonhorseboy> but yeah the trains would be the major aspect of it of course ;)
20:42:05  <planetmaker> you mean... like... a base set? Or like a newgrf assortment like the Japanese grfs?
20:42:25  <planetmaker> Can I talk you into drawing nice signals?
20:42:28  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker...the latter (although perhaps less grfs-splitted)
20:42:58  <dragonhorseboy> signals? hmm no its going to be a rehash of german semaphores and certain light signals sorry
20:43:01  <planetmaker> Re grf-splitted: It's a good choice like the Japanese guys do. One grf per feature
20:43:31  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker..well the real problem is there's already some custom stations and few new cargo types .. so certain aspects would have to be combined together
20:43:43  <dragonhorseboy> but the landscape and so can be kept as a fully seperated grf for sure tho
20:43:46  <planetmaker> how so?
20:43:58  <planetmaker> Cargos are handled via cargo classes. Nowhere a problem.
20:44:05  <planetmaker> Stations: so what?
20:44:08  <planetmaker> same there.
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20:44:39  <planetmaker> And it's a good choice to keep it separate for at least two reasons:
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20:44:53  <planetmaker> a) the player. Leave them the choice to combine. They'll thank you
20:45:42  <planetmaker> b) technical. You have only access to the global base variables, if you do don't define the feature yourself in the newgrf.
20:45:51  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker.. well if it was split it'll need to take some callbacks to set one industry chain with the train grf and a different more-default one without the train grf
20:45:53  <planetmaker> Otherwise you work on base variables specific to your feature.
20:46:15  <planetmaker> dragonhorseboy, why would you need that? You don't.
20:46:23  <planetmaker> Train sets generically support ANY cargo
20:46:49  <planetmaker> Even if you define ALL cargos new, you could play the game with NARS, Canset, 2cctrainset, UKRS, DBXL
20:46:50  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker..that including vans taking luggage instead of mail? (mail is defined differently in the industry grf)
20:46:52  <planetmaker> and probably others
20:47:03  <planetmaker> yes, it includes ANY. If you assign proper cargo classes
20:47:10  <planetmaker> and you don't get around that
20:47:38  <planetmaker> you really should get accustomed to the concept of cargo classes, I think :-)
20:48:21  <planetmaker> Those trainsets might not have sprites specific to that cargo, but they could haul it.
20:48:45  <planetmaker> with either mail wagons or valuables or goods - depending upon how you define it and how the train set is programmed.
20:48:59  <planetmaker> (or any other wagon, but I'd consider that unlikely)
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20:49:22  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker..well I've looked for a while and I don't see anything that would allow a industry grf to redefine the wagons of a trainset
20:49:38  <planetmaker> well, you don't. But you define the cargo
20:49:44  <planetmaker> And a cargo does have a cargo class
20:49:51  <planetmaker> And that's all that is to it.
20:49:56  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker... no...
20:50:21  <planetmaker> Then the trainset finds "oh, I don't have that specific cargo. let's see what class it provides... A and B. Ok, I have a wagon which can handle that combination"
20:50:22  <dragonhorseboy> eg take dbsetxl .. right now the various mail wagons take MAIL .. but in my industry grf thats supposed to be LUGG instead
20:50:31  <planetmaker> yes, so what?
20:50:37  <dragonhorseboy> how does industry.grf tell dbsetxl.grf that these wagons are not supposed to take MAIL?
20:51:12  <planetmaker> *sigh*. It would not. But why would it. The important thing is that they could *also* take luggage.
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20:51:37  <planetmaker> maybe it's the goods wagon. Depends.
20:51:39  <dragonhorseboy> well..thats the has to be defined as LUGG alone .. MAIL isn't a pax cargo anymore for the industry chain
20:51:53  <planetmaker> You cannot define it without cargo class.
20:52:10  <planetmaker> eh?
20:52:15  <dragonhorseboy> btw hey's the FIRS testing going?
20:52:42  <planetmaker> really: try to re-visit cargo classes.
20:52:53  <planetmaker> Industry cargo and train sets are independent.
20:53:05  <planetmaker> How do you think can FIRS exist with that many totally new cargos?
20:53:14  <planetmaker> No train set currently has all of them
20:53:41  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker..its only because andythenorth is still leaving MAIL as its default behaviour but my grf isn't even using it in that manner anymore
20:55:01  <dragonhorseboy> there's other cargos changed too but mail is the major one
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20:55:59  <dragonhorseboy> hmm..maybe thats a thought.. I'll have to try draw RT2-style industry map to bundle with the industry project
20:57:37  <dragonhorseboy> brb to draw a quick one
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21:03:38  <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: you would define LUGG as an Express cargo (class 1)
21:03:50  <andythenorth> oops class 2
21:03:56  <andythenorth>
21:04:24  <andythenorth> you could define LUGG as a Mail cargo (class 1).  That could be very controversial, but might get you better support from vehicle sets.
21:07:38  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth hmm that might be a lifesaver. when I ever get the new industries working I'll see how that action0 prop works out
21:08:16  <dragonhorseboy> and heh to the wording for bit 8 .. since when did anyone draw a TNT wagon grf yet? :P
21:08:53  <planetmaker> yes. afaik
21:09:00  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth oh I think I forgot to tell you because I wasn't even thinking about it at the time before but...
21:09:08  <planetmaker> probably in DB vapour ;-)
21:09:21  <dragonhorseboy> mail is actually going to a postal office industry (1x1 at that) part of the times etc
21:09:38  <dragonhorseboy> so hence why the change of what 'MAIL' cargo really is for
21:09:58  <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: FIRS will actually have an explosives plant in one economy :o
21:10:10  <dragonhorseboy> lol
21:10:13  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth actually...
21:10:22  <dragonhorseboy> if you had taken my old-timer tunnel mine idea before...
21:10:37  <dragonhorseboy> you could had specced to deliver explosions to it elsewise its output would be almost zero
21:10:38  <dragonhorseboy> :D
21:10:51  <dragonhorseboy> heh
21:15:35  * dragonhorseboy waits for you to come back ;)
21:16:12  <andythenorth> no come back
21:16:14  <andythenorth> working :|
21:17:28  <dragonhorseboy> lol
21:17:33  <dragonhorseboy> ok :)
21:18:08  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth btw I tried play around with it a bit more and you're right .. I can't see any use in not just leaving PASS alone on its own as it is (this is partially re TOUR as well)
21:18:25  <dragonhorseboy> actually I can not even remember trying to carry any TOURists ever once in any ecs games
21:18:50  <dragonhorseboy> normal passengers can go to castles/museums on their own right? ;)
21:20:20  <dragonhorseboy> anyway andythenorth the reason I wanted to redo the MAIL cargo was because it seem more relastic for the train to mainly drop off its mail to one or so postal office in each town rather than depending on the stationmaster to have to spread out all the individual mails to put it that way
21:20:45  <andythenorth> George is proposing the same thing for TTRS
21:20:47  <dragonhorseboy> I know it might not be a 100% perfect idea but I'll like to .. so we'll see how the industry grf turns out that way
21:21:52  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth heh .. I always wondered what was up with ttrs+ottd = mega cities in little time
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21:22:42  <dragonhorseboy> I'm actually setting the towns to 1/8 passenger and only the larger towers actually gets a bit bump up to 2/8 passengers so that way the focus isn't going to be on "loads of pax to move"
21:23:01  <dragonhorseboy> no offense to pax-lovers of course but my trainset isn't really geared for that
21:23:13  <dragonhorseboy> :)
21:24:49  <dragonhorseboy> I'm still mulling about banks or no banks tho. I don't know about guarded wagons on rails :D heh (anyone using arcticindustry.grf would still get the banks anyway I need to mull about that)
21:25:17  <andythenorth> planning industry sets is brain ache.
21:25:19  <dragonhorseboy> or whatever the name of that grf was as I've forgotten
21:25:52  <andythenorth> FIRS took 6 weeks to plan, a year to get to a good test grf, and the last couple of months making changes to cargos and industries
21:25:54  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth lol .. well at least mine is somewhat a simple small industry chart
21:26:25  <planetmaker> and: you're working quite overtime on FIRS andythenorth ;-)
21:26:55  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth but on a side note I've actually been thinking about certain wagons in my train having some extra refit options for FIRS-only (as compared to default) cargos but I'm not sure about that just yet
21:27:25  <planetmaker> again: learn about cargo classes ;-)
21:27:26  <dragonhorseboy> the main problem is I don't want to have to cover all of your cargo types as that would induce needing to draw several more freight wagon sprite sets
21:27:28  <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: that's all cargo class stuff, or cargo translation table
21:27:32  <andythenorth> it all comes out in the wash
21:27:40  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth...umm you don't load steel into a hopper car :P
21:27:51  <planetmaker> learn about cargo classes ;-)
21:27:51  <andythenorth> chances are that you'll get a cargo translation table from me, Zephyris or DJ Nekkid
21:28:09  <andythenorth> learn about cargo classes :P
21:28:14  <planetmaker> :-P
21:28:27  <planetmaker> and there are a number of translation tables in existing sets.
21:28:38  <planetmaker> I guess HEQS has one, 2cctrainset has one, FISH has one...
21:28:42  <andythenorth> so go learn about cargo classes
21:28:47  <planetmaker> :-D
21:29:27  <planetmaker> and then about the respective properties concerning vehicles which define the vehicle's / wagon's acceptable cargo classes
21:29:35  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth .. if it was simple I wouldn't have had to figure out about semi-FIRS compactibility but as it is the existing class table is a bit too generic for proper sprites refitting
21:29:58  <planetmaker> that said, those cargo && (allowed XOR not allowed) is a painful thing to get right.
21:30:05  <andythenorth> it's a brainache
21:30:16  <planetmaker> probably I quoted it wrong right now anyway
21:30:34  <planetmaker> dragonhorseboy, you don't need proper sprites in order to support a cargo
21:30:43  <andythenorth> my advice: only provide covered gondolas.  *every* cargo goes in those :)
21:30:47  <planetmaker> you just need a generic sprite for all unsupported cargos
21:30:54  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth no? so you want steel to look like a heap of soil? :)
21:30:55  <planetmaker> what andy says :-)
21:31:10  <andythenorth> Gondola + tarpaulin = win
21:31:50  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth actually there's only two types of gondola and they're not equipped for water or oil at all .. so go figure
21:32:03  <dragonhorseboy> to do that would be a third gondola
21:32:07  <andythenorth> oil and water travel perfectly well in 45 gallon drums
21:32:15  <planetmaker> :-)
21:32:17  <andythenorth> which go in gondolas
21:32:25  <andythenorth> under a tarpaulin
21:32:34  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
21:32:41  <andythenorth> trust me, I did cargo support for HEQS, I regret it.
21:32:48  <planetmaker> :-P
21:32:55  <planetmaker> why?
21:33:03  <andythenorth> because it's a PITA to draw
21:33:06  <andythenorth> FISH = no cargo specific sprites
21:33:08  <planetmaker> I mean... it's A LOT of work
21:33:31  <planetmaker> but sure it adds to atmosphere, if at least some cargos make the lorries and wagons look different.
21:33:32  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth.. you'll need to cut out doors to be able to even load drums from anything but small slow human handcarts. but anyway .. lets not debate too much over this silly stuff :P
21:33:51  <andythenorth> the doors are there, you just can't see them at TTD scale :)
21:34:04  <andythenorth> and drums can be loaded by crane, into and out of the gondola
21:34:09  <andythenorth> from above.
21:34:15  <andythenorth> after you've removed the tarpaulin
21:34:17  <dragonhorseboy> first gondola doesn't have any doors but bottom gravity unload panel releases
21:34:30  <andythenorth> :P
21:34:33  <dragonhorseboy> (I know it might sound odd to you but its the way some special gondolas were built as)
21:35:01  <dragonhorseboy> not like the typical others (uk for that matter) with large or double doors on both sides
21:35:24  <andythenorth> sounds fine, you can you won't see the doors or the bottom gravity panels at ttd scale, so you don't have to draw them :D
21:35:47  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth at least you COULD list the rhb/mob goods van under both 'bulk freight' and 'piece goods' .. with manual exclusion of wood&lumber ;)
21:36:29  <andythenorth> wood & lumber goes in a goods van just fine.  But why do you need a goods van when one gondola will do :)
21:36:31  <andythenorth> ??
21:36:36  <dragonhorseboy> (wood already goes on specialized stalked log cars so no need to repeat)
21:36:37  <andythenorth> I think I deserve a beer
21:36:59  <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: I am kidding ya
21:37:21  <dragonhorseboy> heh well you have to remember that some cargos are just shoved into the goods van then the doors closed .. no need to cover the cargo or the wagon itself
21:37:23  <dragonhorseboy> so :P
21:37:25  <andythenorth> but I would definitely plan to draw as little as possible.  Planning is easy, drawing is not
21:38:08  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth well there aren't that many variety in first place so the wagons aren't hard to do.. its the locos that are something else tho ;)
21:39:07  <dragonhorseboy> there's just a few specialized wagons tho but most of these are just a re-sprite of existing wagons (like eg the standard 2-axle flatcar can be refit into a 40ft container one .. and the container car has a bit different cargo support than the flatcar itself)
21:39:36  <dragonhorseboy> only the stalked log truck stands alone so far yet (no refit from or into anything else)
21:40:31  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth I don't think it'll take too long to actually draw all wagons (livery randomizing might be saved for a second release in future to save time) just as long as a few basic locos can be finished at same time
21:40:44  <andythenorth> you know you're going to need to do loaded, unloaded, and loading sprites?
21:40:56  <andythenorth> and you'll probably want to randomise cargos
21:41:06  <andythenorth> (so different coloured containers etc.)
21:41:19  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth...i was saying I'll save the randomizing for the second release :P
21:41:25  <andythenorth> ok
21:41:42  <dragonhorseboy> a bti easier to bug-test the original nfo code in first place before adding more 'fluff' to it you know what I mean?
21:41:48  <andythenorth> yes
21:42:10  <dragonhorseboy> btw there's at least 14 different containers (one is all-yellow for postal natural) .. and half are for refridgerated cargos)
21:42:19  <dragonhorseboy> and thats only one single wagon to start with
21:42:32  <andythenorth> :) btw for minerals you'll need sprites for: coal, iron ore, copper ore, gravel, bauxite, sand, and maybe sugar, and some other cargo that I always draw but don't know what it is
21:42:38  <andythenorth> oh, and maybe grain
21:43:40  <dragonhorseboy> the latter several could come in a second release don't worry about it ;)
21:44:30  <dragonhorseboy> might draw a quick crude blue-tarp-covered wagon as a "make do till V2" for foreign industries (alak yours)
21:45:20  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth just had to ask now that I recall .. what are 'reserved 1' and 2 exactly for? is it actual cargo or just some gameplay stuff just like the regearing one?
21:46:11  <andythenorth> we decided to keep 3 cargo slots free to allow people to develop add-ons....or do weird stuff like regearing.
21:46:25  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth ah ok ;)
21:47:16  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth anyway you planning to expand Water or its pretty much only going to be for plant>tower single industry chain?
21:47:29  <andythenorth> what else could it do?
21:49:09  <planetmaker> didn't you remove already some cargos (additionally)?
21:49:14  <dragonhorseboy> heh well for me I was going to use WATR for a low stockpile at the coal powerplant aside to delivering it to the town's freight depot (a simple 1x1 industry building in its own right again) which would had likely translated into santized water for the citizens
21:49:43  <dragonhorseboy> but I'm not certain about that aspect of course
21:50:00  <dragonhorseboy> I might leave the entire water thing out and just cancel one particular wagon id (since it was only for special water carrying)
21:50:28  <dragonhorseboy> its still too early yet (plus not done sketching industries) to tell exactly what would be in or kicked out yet... give me another several day ;)
21:50:30  <andythenorth> I was going to say not much water gets shipped around, but actually it does
21:51:26  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth well yeah a lot of old down-to-earth narrow railroads had many simple 2-axle water tank flatcars (with fire hose style hose for unloading)
21:51:40  <dragonhorseboy> you know.. these little 2ft trains that are no taller than your hair are
21:52:07  <dragonhorseboy> but I believe some standard gauge mainline water tankers existed too... just can't remember details now
21:52:21  <andythenorth> plus bottled water gets shipped around *a lot* by container and covered wagon
21:52:22  <andythenorth>
21:52:23  <Webster> Title: Jouef 657800 HO SNCF Rils Bogie canvas wagon Vittel on eBay (end time 31-Jan-10 19:51:25 GMT) (at
21:52:41  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth I *hate* these cheap plastic bottled waters .. why are they trying to rip us off on these :S
21:53:08  <dragonhorseboy> oh or for THAT matter I don't like city water most of the times..compared to rural water (some of these are from healthy wells of varying underground sizes too heh)
21:54:07  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth did I tell you about my own sheep idea yet?
21:56:57  *** ODM has quit IRC
21:59:34  <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: you need to do a diagram and post your stuff somewhere...
22:05:07  <dragonhorseboy> yeah I know.. I'll finish the sketches so I know I can draw a map without gaps missing on it
22:06:14  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth but either way if you don't mind a large image (only one I can find now) .. the two different trucks is why I've decided to have a seperate sheep chain
22:07:01  <dragonhorseboy> eg 12 cattle (alak livestock to any other trainsets) verus 26 sheeps on same wagon chassis
22:07:32  *** Frankr has quit IRC
22:07:55  <dragonhorseboy> it'll eventually head to the same WOOL cargo class at the end naturally
22:09:12  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth I've got more to say but of course its not as easy to explain these compared to the mail/sheep ones now tho. so I'll just tell you to wait a few days to know about the rest ;)
22:09:16  <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: I don't have the link, but you want to have a look at cargo units.  I think you can adjust the number of units per ton or vice versa.  I don't know how it affects capacity
22:09:21  <andythenorth> also capacity can be changed on refit
22:09:36  <andythenorth> so you could use one wagon and change capacity
22:09:46  <andythenorth> I'd suggest just using the gondola :P
22:10:03  <dragonhorseboy> cows would just jump out when the train stopped at a signal :P
22:10:06  <dragonhorseboy> lol
22:11:31  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth .. btw one small interesting item..
22:12:14  <dragonhorseboy> sheep vans sometimes did run in single (or just a few) between the locomotive and passenger trains in the early days of railroad down there in australia
22:12:34  <dragonhorseboy> at least sheeps didn't have any of the smell problem that cattles did which explained this typical allowed mixing
22:14:40  *** Frankr has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
22:15:51  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth btw not nitpicking anything but don't you think the landfill could have a stockpile limit and if its possible..when you hit that limit it would say "landfill is getting too smelly" ..
22:15:58  <dragonhorseboy> no offense meant of course..just sounds amusing :P
22:16:09  * dragonhorseboy hehs
22:16:35  <andythenorth> 9.9
22:17:18  <dragonhorseboy> its what happens to some real landfills tho (or as far as I know as per the news about the ones in Ontario) .. when they close off from accepting any more its usually due to the smell problem associated with the high pilings
22:18:19  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth I do have one suggestion for FIRS if you don't mind tho.. make sure the meat packer can't be built adjacent or very close to any towns?
22:19:02  <andythenorth> hmmm.....what do you know about the history of Chicago?
22:19:03  <dragonhorseboy> eg say 10+ tiles away from the center of any populations for example or something .. to help with the downwind pollution issue
22:19:34  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth..actually there was one elevated line that ran right over the major cattle holding yard and every unit that ran by were hoping the power would NOT cut
22:19:49  <dragonhorseboy> because coming to a stop in middle of all the smell would be too much
22:20:10  <dragonhorseboy> some wonder for history eh?
22:22:41  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth btw you know that survey supply depot you got now?
22:22:47  <andythenorth> yes?
22:23:53  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth..blanket most of the ground with snow and add tread tracks between the first shed and the houses .. and replace that yellow bulldozer with something that looks like the other blue one but with a V plow....
22:24:01  <dragonhorseboy> and you got a perfect arctic-suitable version of it ;)
22:24:32  <dragonhorseboy> sure I know railroads don't really run up to the north pole yet (where camps alike to that sprite exists etc) .. but just for the whism of it :)
22:25:01  <dragonhorseboy> whim*
22:26:21  <dragonhorseboy> hm well hell who needs rail in the north pole tho.. you've got these sled tractors in HEQ anyway ;)
22:26:35  <dragonhorseboy> heh
22:26:40  <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: somewhat inspired by
22:26:48  <andythenorth> and yes, that's what the sled bulldozers are for
22:27:23  <dragonhorseboy> :)
22:27:52  <dragonhorseboy> whats a windfarm in FIRS sense?
22:30:10  <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: more on the arctic sled trains:
22:30:33  <dragonhorseboy> and I'm just humoring but couldn't the Furniture Factory have a bit less back and more front land space so when its operating you could have a forklift running from the opened door toward the closed-now-opening door then door closes and repeat
22:30:50  <dragonhorseboy> kinda like the old animated Lionel station stuffs heh
22:31:07  <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: that could happen.  There's a forklift tile in ISR though
22:32:57  <dragonhorseboy> lol I just thought now....
22:33:48  <dragonhorseboy> a explosion at the tnt factory at randomized (instead of every time a load comes in) time would be a bit too funny for any players that managed to see one
22:34:54  <dragonhorseboy> train drops off its load again as usual .. but just as its about done and leaving there's a red bang with smoke coming out of the loading door .. people soon come running out just as smoke stops.. then people all disappear off edge of tile
22:35:07  <dragonhorseboy> just yet another silly idea ;)
22:37:17  <dragonhorseboy> remind me tho.. I'll have to ask the ISR author about some minor tweaks
22:37:22  * Hirundo ponders the creation of a dragonhorseboy-thoughts channel :)
22:37:40  <dragonhorseboy> especially a sheep holding pen .. smaller but more white dots than the cattle holding pen
22:37:50  <dragonhorseboy> hirundo..very funny
22:38:59  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Infrastructure Sharing - Feature #7: Transfer payments <>
22:39:30  <andythenorth> Hirundo: this channel is a bit like twitter today
22:39:35  <dragonhorseboy> wait a sec is that what I think it is.. company A finally gets paid for adding more cargo to company B's train
22:39:38  * dragonhorseboy goes look
22:39:47  <andythenorth> "@dragonhorseboy"
22:40:04  <planetmaker> andythenorth, only today?
22:40:52  <Hirundo> dragonhorseboy: Yes, I'm trying to fix that issue without adding 100+ bytes to each cargopacket
22:40:54  <andythenorth> I declare bedtime
22:41:23  *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone
22:42:32  <Hirundo> At least, it's some progress on IS for the first time in around a month :)
22:44:42  <dragonhorseboy> have fun..that'll be nice ;)
22:44:52  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker hm? :P
22:50:37  <dragonhorseboy> well suppertime so afk
22:54:28  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Feature #724: I am colorblind Coffee black and egg white <>
23:01:56  <dragonhorseboy> back
23:13:13  <dragonhorseboy> hirundo personally one other MP thing I'm waiting for is watchgui .. roboboy seem to be working on that last he told me
23:13:27  <dragonhorseboy> would be helpful in IS .. being able to know whats actually going on :)
23:17:04  <dragonhorseboy> you seen watchgui thread yet or no?
23:35:31  <dragonhorseboy> hirundo ?
23:36:36  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: this isn't really the small talk channel ;-)
23:37:56  <dragonhorseboy> ammler.. well isn't IS = players working together .. so isn't that related to watchgui?
23:38:06  <dragonhorseboy> heh.. :P anyway
23:39:46  <Ammler> yes, but that patch already exists, what should Hirundo do with it?

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