Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 4th February 2010:
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08:59:38  <planetmaker> good morning
09:00:02  <planetmaker> boah... waterfall-babble-boy has been active again yesterday, eh?
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11:38:36  <Ammler> planetmaker: category toyland and tropic isn't needed anymore
11:39:00  <Ammler> remove reassign them to base?
11:41:37  <Ammler> we don't have any tickets for those anyway, I do it...
11:44:34  <planetmaker> uhm... Ammler why?
11:44:53  <planetmaker> It makes sense to have a category for each climate...
11:45:11  <planetmaker> sprite numbers DO differ.
11:45:24  <planetmaker> or at least graphics
11:51:01  <Ammler> we never used tropic for instance
11:51:40  <Ammler> well, if needed, they are added quite fast again...
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11:54:38  <planetmaker> uh... what now about already closed issues? They got their category removed or what?
11:59:07  <Ammler> hmm, do I need to revert my change?
12:01:30  <planetmaker> Personally I like to have those categories. Even if no current issue addresses them, they're valid and useful
12:02:03  <Ammler> well, I meant there were also no closed issues using it
12:02:08  <planetmaker> But I don't know what you changed and what impact it has. I have no history of that.
12:02:13  <Ammler> only some toyland
12:02:19  <planetmaker> Hm
12:02:35  <planetmaker> yes, so especially toyland makes sense
12:03:06  <planetmaker> having those issues uncategorized. Oh well.
12:04:45  <planetmaker> yes, please revert the toyland removal
12:05:12  <planetmaker> hm.. why is toyland trees assigned to base?
12:05:25  <planetmaker> and arctic church and snow office blocks?
12:05:29  <planetmaker> and so on.
12:06:58  <planetmaker> I guess it's not that important.
12:07:16  <planetmaker> But removing them was not important either ;-)
12:08:19  <Ammler> sorry, I will revert it... :-(
12:08:26  <planetmaker> Ah, I guess don't bother
12:08:34  <Ammler> well, I had in mind to make it easier for reporting
12:08:37  <planetmaker> Depends how one wants to organize the categories.
12:09:07  <Ammler> because it was confusing for example
12:09:08  <planetmaker> Base = all sprites also found in the origina, extra = extra newgrf, and then 32bpp and build system makes sense, too
12:09:25  <Ammler> if the toyland sprite is in the base grf, what category to take
12:09:35  <planetmaker> yes.
12:09:41  <planetmaker> So leave it
12:09:42  <planetmaker> as is
12:10:05  <planetmaker> convince me before you delete ;-)
12:10:14  <Ammler> :-P
12:10:31  <planetmaker> less stressful. For both of us :-P
12:10:40  <Ammler> I thought, it doesn't hurt, as there was not used
12:10:48  <Ammler> but I forgot about the closed ;-)
12:11:16  * planetmaker hugs Ammler 
12:13:06  <Ammler> well, I am able to revert, there were 25 issues with Toyland
12:13:13  <Ammler> so it is up2you
12:14:47  <Ammler> but maybe we should call those category File:base, File:toyland ... etc.
12:15:24  <Ammler> so it is clear, it is about the files, not the real type
12:22:11  <planetmaker> That's a good proposal. But then the old category toyland wasn't consequent in that respect either.
12:22:37  <planetmaker> as said: don't bother with a revert now.
12:23:02  <planetmaker> it was inconsequent, so of little use anyway
12:31:17  <Ammler> they I do nothing anymore...
12:32:41  <Ammler> Maybe we should annouce in the OpenGFX thread, that the project is still WIP, there are still a lot open tickets
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12:45:44  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Bug #709: Alignment of headline in newspaper in 2051 <>
13:03:23  <planetmaker> <Ammler> they I do nothing anymore... <-- I hope that doesn't mean you'll never ever do anything anymore :-)
13:03:34  <planetmaker> I was initially just a bit scared :-)
13:04:11  <planetmaker> And yes, OpenGFX has a lot of tickets. Many of those tickets are coding tickets. Many of those tickets could also be helped by the artists, if they replaced the sprites in place...
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13:17:09  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Bug #709: Alignment of headline in newspaper in 2051 <>
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16:24:32  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #298: parameters <>
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19:30:00  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Avignon - Revision 568: -Fixed: Fixed checkPermission because of the new IRC module. <> || Redmine - Revision 3205: Change Role#anonymous and #non_member so they generate the record as nee... <> || Redmine - Revision 3204: Refactor: Moved the raw SQL finders from ReportsController to Issue. <> || Redmine - Revision 3203: Converted a test to shoulda and added more checks for it's assignments. <>
19:39:09  <Ammler> he, planetmaker
19:39:20  <Ammler> nice typo in the news: "The first bug fix release for OpenTTD 0.2"
19:39:33  <Ammler>
19:50:15  <planetmaker> What's the typo?
19:52:30  <andythenorth> hi hi
19:53:06  <planetmaker> moin andythenorth :-)
19:53:38  <andythenorth> planetmaker: do you use twitter?  I am looking for a decent mac twitter client :o
19:57:41  <planetmaker> andythenorth: I refuse ;-)
19:57:45  <andythenorth> hey ho
19:58:05  <andythenorth> I refused for a while, but I think it's here to stay.  It's just another bit of infrastructure ;)
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20:00:40  <Ammler> @tweet OpenTTD 1.0.0 beta4 released! (
20:00:41  <Webster> Ammler: Posted.
20:00:46  <Ammler> andythenorth: ^
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20:01:29  <Ammler> <-- check the followers Osai
20:01:38  <Ammler> should show you what to use for mac
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20:05:18  <dragonhorseboy> hey
20:05:38  * dragonhorseboy gives andythenorth some FRUITs to eat ;)
20:05:49  <andythenorth> hi dragonhorseboy
20:06:10  <andythenorth> is your set still vapourware, or do you have some documents  :P
20:06:26  * andythenorth feeling evil :D
20:06:31  <dragonhorseboy> you're very funny
20:06:48  * dragonhorseboy vapourizes several FIRS industries with a big bomb? ;)
20:06:52  <dragonhorseboy> hehhee
20:07:20  <dragonhorseboy> how're you anyway?
20:09:41  <planetmaker> andy, now you're here, I think I have to ask you:
20:09:55  <dragonhorseboy> anyhow got most of the scheme texts down..just still having some gaps before considering it finished (one of them is if cement should come straight from a quarry or should I add in another step requiring gravel)
20:09:57  <planetmaker> concerning the stockpile thingy, there are two approaches I consider
20:10:23  <planetmaker> a) just increase via param the stockpile to FFFF instead of infinity
20:10:59  <planetmaker> b) add an additional var check, and only resort to the current LIMIT check, if the var check returned 'limits active'
20:11:04  <planetmaker> what would you suggest?
20:11:22  <planetmaker> a) has the advantage that I can 'just' replace all stockpiles by a var value
20:11:28  <planetmaker> b) adds everywhere another action2
20:11:48  <planetmaker> (I'm not 100% sure of whether a) doesn't do that, either)
20:12:31  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the key thing is that both tiles and industry need to know the limit
20:12:36  <andythenorth> I would try using persistent storage to store the limit....I'm not sure if the tiles can get to that though
20:13:12  <andythenorth> if the tiles can access persistent storage, then we modify 2 or 3 varaction 2s, and add one
20:13:17  <planetmaker> c) would be to use action6 to modify the following action2
20:13:50  <andythenorth> c is very bad, it means code doesn't quite do what it says it does...not pythonic :P
20:14:08  <planetmaker> well. Just overwriting the limit value. So a variant of a) ;-)
20:14:26  <andythenorth> yes, variant of a is best
20:14:33  <planetmaker> but  I agree. I don't like c) either
20:14:35  <Ammler> Action6 rocks :-)
20:15:04  <planetmaker> self modifying code ;-)
20:15:05  <andythenorth> I should say...I'm happy if you want to support this, but I like the limits.  Removing them won't enhance gameplay (in my opinion)
20:15:07  <planetmaker> polymorphism
20:15:34  <Ammler> for me, ECS how it is is fun.
20:15:35  <planetmaker> well. I don't like stockpiles
20:15:48  <Ammler> :-P ^
20:15:51  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth seeing you have flexible inputs this time yeah I don't mind the limits
20:16:05  <dragonhorseboy> (even for steel mill as we have talked about already before heh)
20:16:07  <andythenorth> I understand disliking stockpiles.
20:16:08  <Ammler> I don't like those for MP games.
20:16:25  <planetmaker> and I see easily problems, especially with the fixed stockpiles. A single train can easily overload those
20:16:29  <dragonhorseboy> ammler powerplants that can eat 4000+ tonnes of coal at once doesn't exist in RL? :P
20:16:43  <Ammler> I don't care about "RL"
20:16:45  <andythenorth> planetmaker: that's kind of the forces not using big trains :)
20:17:04  <planetmaker> andythenorth: yeah, but then it's "forcing".
20:17:05  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth..or actually routing them properly so its only one or two trains per stockpile max
20:17:09  <planetmaker> That's something I don't like ;-)
20:17:24  <andythenorth> FWIW, CanSet 3 has coal as a production boost industry for the metal plant.  Every time I played I ended up with > 10,000t of coal waiting.  It's not a gameplay problem, but it just looks a bit...broken :o
20:17:35  <dragonhorseboy> I've never had one problem with a network full of 700 tonnes loaded trains heading to two seperate 1K-stockpile-max powerplants
20:17:36  <planetmaker> Without limit you can still play the same, you don't need to do that
20:17:37  <andythenorth> I don't mind though, if you want to add it.
20:17:48  <planetmaker> but if there's one, it limits it for all people. So actually IMO less value
20:17:50  <Ammler> planetmaker: you can still "unlaod" all, you just don't get paid for everyhing
20:17:58  <andythenorth> no you do get paid
20:18:10  <Ammler> but?
20:18:19  <planetmaker> it will stop accepting afterwards
20:18:20  <andythenorth> if the industry accepts cargo, you get paid ;)
20:18:29  <Ammler> ah, autsch
20:18:42  <andythenorth> oops.  Ammler I was talking about if we *remove* stockpiles
20:18:47  * dragonhorseboy only touches 'unload' when its for to use together with 'transfer'
20:18:47  <Ammler> well, if it doesn't accept, you don't get paid :-P
20:18:55  <andythenorth> Ammler: yup
20:19:00  <dragonhorseboy> otherwise its a totally crappy button you should never use in first place :P
20:19:12  <Ammler> so my statement works.
20:19:25  <dragonhorseboy> I still can't understand players that keep piling up 2000+ tonnes of varying cargos at a station just because they couldn't understand the gameplay
20:19:45  <planetmaker> andythenorth: if you ask me: the stockpiles of ECS are what make those vectors a pain in my eyes ;-)
20:19:48  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: you can make nice excess transports
20:20:06  <planetmaker> so my personal default would rather be: no stockpile and enabled via parameter :-P
20:20:26  <Ammler> e.g. unload all at steelmill, another smaller train transports the excess to the power plant.
20:20:35  <planetmaker> according to the initial design there were no limits on stockpiles anyway.
20:20:46  <dragonhorseboy> ammler...or split the train schedules like I alreayd mentioned re 700 tonnes trains
20:20:54  <dragonhorseboy> alreayd=already*
20:20:58  <planetmaker> and I was surprised on the bad side to find them implemented
20:21:18  <Ammler> yes, but my idea is "RL" :-P
20:21:26  <dragonhorseboy> ammler...nope its not
20:21:54  <dragonhorseboy> even Powder Basin does not deliver all of their massive coal to just one single first station ;)
20:23:46  <Ammler> andythenorth:
20:23:47  <Webster> Title: Twitterrific (at
20:24:49  <andythenorth> planetmaker: just to be clear....removing the stockpile limit is going to produce a lot of player 'bug' reports saying 'my stupid industry xxxx' is not using Engineering Supplies properly, please fix it'.  I'll put those your way ;)
20:25:35  <dragonhorseboy> heh yeah :)
20:28:39  <planetmaker> andythenorth: how so? I don't want to reduce the effect of that cargo ;-)
20:29:07  <planetmaker> anyway, I don't want to discuss that. Limits stay, it's your decision and I don't find it fundamental, if there's a way around
20:29:21  <andythenorth> well let's explore it a little further...
20:29:41  <andythenorth> the Engineering Supplies, Farm Supplies & Manufacturing Supplies are only used at a certain rate (I'll explain why in a minute)
20:29:41  <planetmaker> <-- can you please check whether I understood action2 sequence properly? I got a bit rusty with that.
20:30:12  <planetmaker> that's the industry part, not tiles
20:31:03  <andythenorth> (back in a minute)
20:32:22  <dragonhorseboy> anyway correct me if I'm wrong but can you enforce a wagon to only carry cargos that have two classes and not carry the one that only have either classes?
20:32:23  <planetmaker> andythenorth: having those consumed at a certain rate only makes sense. Or you'd need to supply industries with them between every cargo processing step, thus 8...9 times a month
20:32:44  <dragonhorseboy> like eg a wagon can carry "express cargo, refrigerated cargo" but not if its only "express cargo" etc
20:32:50  <andythenorth> If we don't limit Supplies, players can (a) get production boost for 2 years with one delivery from a 4000t train
20:33:08  <andythenorth> and (b) players will see vast stockpiles of Supplies build up, and report a bug (I think, not sure)
20:33:08  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth true..good point there
20:33:08  <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes. I know. I wouldn't consider it exceptionally bad.
20:33:55  <planetmaker> 2 month = 2.5 minutes playing time. Thus you need to deliver farm supplies every 2.5 minutes to a farm
20:34:09  <andythenorth> here's another angle on it though....originally *all* cargos were planned to be processed gradually.  This wasn't definite, but me and Foobar thought it was better
20:34:11  <planetmaker> 2 years = a truck arrives every 30 minutes playing time
20:34:55  <planetmaker> thus the stockpiles make large distances on scarce maps very unattractive.
20:35:18  <andythenorth> I'm not sure.  Run several smaller trains?
20:35:22  <planetmaker> where you have one farm supply industry on the map and supply farms on the other side. Or you have like 100 trucks.
20:35:24  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker..umm repeat that again? I can send 900 tonnes from one corner of 2048x2048 map to other ;)
20:35:41  <andythenorth> planetmaker: or you run a train, then feeder
20:35:56  <planetmaker> yes ;-)
20:36:30  <planetmaker> anyway, I like it configurable ;-)
20:36:39  <planetmaker> and it won't hurt.
20:37:56  <planetmaker> And of course I see how it *can* be done with small stockpiles.
20:38:10  <planetmaker> But then farms buy their stuff usually once a year, if you argue realism ;-)
20:38:25  <planetmaker> at least if it comes to the big supply things or so :-P
20:38:48  <andythenorth> true
20:39:02  * dragonhorseboy doesn't buy anything only once a year even for crops
20:39:16  <dragonhorseboy> and beside don't forget there's always indoor greenhouse plants too
20:39:39  * andythenorth would have preferred gradual processing of all cargos, but some people seem to want to deliver *insane* amounts of cargo to a single industry  9.9 
20:40:07  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth I'm so with you..these players need to stuff their big mouth smaller no? :P (of course not you planetmaker)
20:40:50  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth I've had very few times I had to fund a duplicated industry within station catchment but its more than often only because there's very few of it existing on the entire map at all in first place
20:41:27  <welshdragon> do i have to compile ap+?
20:41:49  <dragonhorseboy> one time it was a brewery and the second one often had about 70-120 tonnes dumped onto it on average (stockpile was 700 tonnes)
20:42:04  <planetmaker> welshdragon: no, it's a script language
20:42:18  <dragonhorseboy> hey welshdragon :)
20:42:35  <welshdragon> planetmaker: so how do i use it?
20:42:37  <Ammler> welshdragon: if aren't in a hurry, I would wait for Avignon
20:42:39  <dragonhorseboy> welshdragon I'm only asking anyhow but how's the remaking of your Wales network going?
20:42:48  <Ammler> you*
20:43:24  <welshdragon> Ammler: i'm wanting to get it up and running ASAP
20:43:34  <welshdragon> dragonhorseboy: can't you read that i'm busy?
20:44:11  <dragonhorseboy> well excuse me for not knowing that till you mentioned "running asap" :\
20:44:18  <dragonhorseboy> sorry
20:45:02  <dragonhorseboy> ammler I'm actually still waiting out of curiousity for IS2.2 especially if it includes roboboy's work on bringing watchgui to it
20:45:05  <Ammler> welshdragon: feel free to ask specific question about...
20:45:25  <dragonhorseboy> would be interesting being able to know what your friendly IS company is actually working on without having to keep asking
20:45:25  <welshdragon> Ammler: the issue i have is that i can't compile ap+
20:45:25  <Ammler> watchgui is a client patch
20:45:35  <Ammler> and no, won't be in IS2 :-)
20:45:51  <dragonhorseboy> meh I thought roboboy said he would compile it... oh well >_<
20:46:01  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: you can easy patch your IS2 build
20:46:16  <dragonhorseboy> hmm...
20:46:27  <dragonhorseboy> is there any readme for how to add a patch?
20:46:30  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: yes, you can patch your client with it and join a unpatched server
20:46:36  * andythenorth considers changing FIRS production code to gradual processing
20:46:41  <andythenorth> "Pikka Mode" ®
20:46:53  <planetmaker> :-P
20:47:00  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth I thought ecs had gradual from the start too?
20:47:39  <andythenorth> gradual ~= stockpile in terms of gameplay
20:47:41  <planetmaker> andythenorth: but don't do that by default ;-)
20:48:00  <andythenorth> I'm not going to do that at all ;)
20:48:04  * dragonhorseboy whacks planetmaker to stop :P
20:48:06  <planetmaker> and rather have that IMO be a task once there's a beta
20:48:17  <dragonhorseboy> heh
20:48:18  <andythenorth> the code to accept 'insane' amounts of cargo was a lot of effort to write, and appears to work
20:48:26  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
20:48:29  * planetmaker hugs andythenorth
20:48:31  <andythenorth> it actually has some logical flaws, but I don't think anyone will find them
20:49:04  <planetmaker> psst, care to tell (when no one listens)? ;-)
20:49:25  <welshdragon> Ammler: when will Avignon get released?
20:49:42  <planetmaker> welshdragon: when it's done, I guess :-P
20:49:44  <dragonhorseboy> just gcc4 for windows alone to add a patch to is2 build?
20:49:45  <planetmaker> ask osai and dih
20:50:04  <Ammler> we are preparing avignon for ps right now
20:50:07  <welshdragon> well, there's the alpha
20:50:21  <Ammler> but the release, dunno, that is yes, osai/dih taks
20:50:55  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: why not ask roboboy for a binary?
20:51:20  <Ammler> or a patchpack
20:51:42  <dragonhorseboy> hmm that works too..I'll see when he comes on again
20:51:50  <andythenorth> planetmaker: this paste from earlier
20:51:57  <andythenorth> ....looks like you got most of it right
20:52:07  <andythenorth> line 4 is 'accept 0'
20:52:12  <andythenorth> line 5 is accept '8'
20:52:31  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: did you ever compile from svn or hg unpatched?
20:52:56  <dragonhorseboy> nope
20:53:02  <Ammler> this is step 1, then you can try to include patches ;-)
20:53:35  <Ammler> there is already quite a lot docu about on the wiki.
20:56:23  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I have an about using action 7 to change industry prop 22 (specifically bit 2)??
20:57:02  <andythenorth> ummm....
20:57:29  * andythenorth can never be sure which props are stored in a savegame, and which are generated from action 0 on load / build 
20:58:02  <andythenorth> planetmaker: would you want to be able to turn off limit whilst playing?
20:58:03  <Ammler> you always speak about Action7, wouldn't it be 9?
20:59:02  <andythenorth> dunno, I just trust to the wiki...."If in doubt, use action 7" :)
20:59:23  <dragonhorseboy> heh
20:59:26  <andythenorth> I meant action 6 in this case I think anyway
21:00:02  <Ammler> last time I used Action7, it failed, with 9 it worked ;-)
21:00:18  <andythenorth> I've never really had much need to use either
21:02:00  <dragonhorseboy> hmm I only found this right away for now re adding a patch (the minigw page seem skinny on how to)
21:02:06  <dragonhorseboy> brb
21:02:22  <planetmaker> andythenorth: grf parameters are set during creation. People who fail in setting them, bad luck
21:02:28  <planetmaker> or would you have a solution to that?
21:02:51  <Ammler> "during creation"?
21:03:20  <planetmaker> map creation
21:03:27  <andythenorth> a varaction 2 chain will respect a parameter changed during the game.  For example, debug text can now be turned on/off for some FIRS industries during gameplay
21:03:29  <planetmaker> or load
21:03:48  <Ammler> hmm, since those changes of frosch, it should be easy possible to change a running game.
21:03:57  <andythenorth> hmmm.....something has borked one my FIRS production templates
21:03:58  <planetmaker> hm, then, using action2 and parameter (as I intend to go now) will make it settable even after map generation
21:04:12  <Ammler> at least it is with my basecost mod, which was a pain before.
21:04:44  <planetmaker> btw, andythenorth do you care to upload a game quite a bit played with FIRS, e.g. stations and vehicles connecting industry(chains) as a test game?
21:04:50  <planetmaker> e.g. to the FIRS documents?
21:04:54  <andythenorth> planetmaker: what's your local version of template_manufacturing_action23.pnfo look like?
21:05:12  <planetmaker> andythenorth: as in the repo online ;-)
21:05:36  <Ammler> (I guess, you can't influence that anyway ;-)
21:05:49  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker I could do that for you if you don't mind giving me a while?
21:05:49  <Ammler> why should you?
21:06:01  <andythenorth> yep, my version of that file is broken :o
21:06:12  <planetmaker> andythenorth: anything in particular?
21:06:44  <planetmaker> dragonhorseboy: I don't mind. I first have to code the thing anyway. And I won't finish today, so much is sure... far too tired already ;-)
21:07:12  <planetmaker> And post a few nice screenies in the tt-forums as appetizers :-)
21:07:18  <planetmaker> if you're at it ;-)
21:07:35  <dragonhorseboy> lol..not sure about screenshots atm sorry ;)
21:07:46  <planetmaker> (omg, how bad am I? Asking for savegames to test instead of playing myself :S)
21:07:47  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I now think branching varaction is easier than registers.  I'll help you with it.  You can trade me that for sorting out economy code some other time ;)
21:07:54  <dragonhorseboy> should be able to have a gamesave and its grf list for you tomorrow or so :)
21:08:06  <planetmaker> lol @ andythenorth :-)
21:08:07  <Ammler> PLEASE, could someone play openttd for me?
21:08:21  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker I don't'll be a nice execuse from the lack of any server games for several days
21:08:22  <planetmaker> Ammler: exactly :-P
21:08:38  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker you do have IS2.1.1 folder don't you?
21:08:48  <planetmaker> dragonhorseboy: probably...
21:08:57  <planetmaker> the version on #jonty's server?
21:09:03  <dragonhorseboy> yeah
21:09:10  <planetmaker> yeah
21:09:12  <andythenorth> planetmaker:
21:09:18  <Ammler> but the testgame should be trunkish
21:09:19  <andythenorth> god knows why that happened :|
21:09:33  <andythenorth> I have a .orig version of that file locally for some reason.
21:09:43  <andythenorth> which is fine.  I can recover, just don't know what happened.
21:10:01  <planetmaker> dragonhorseboy: yeah, please don't give me an IS savegame, but a trunk one :-)
21:10:12  <planetmaker> patch-savegames make very bad test cases
21:10:18  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I suppose me *writing* you some action 2 is easier than explaining it on irc??
21:10:21  <planetmaker> (except for the patch)
21:10:29  <planetmaker> andythenorth: no ;-)
21:10:42  <andythenorth> ok, lets get started then....
21:10:42  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker..then ask someone else
21:10:51  <planetmaker> well, surely yes, but it doesn't go well with my desire to *know* ;-)
21:11:13  <planetmaker> andythenorth: I took the arable farm as my test industry
21:11:26  <andythenorth> planetmaker: start with template_primary_action23.pnfo then
21:11:42  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: the issue is, IS2 saves aren't upwards compatible
21:11:55  <Ammler> (also not for newer IS2 games)
21:12:00  <planetmaker> andythenorth: ok...
21:12:23  <andythenorth> line 56 - ID B0
21:12:32  <andythenorth> make that B1
21:12:44  <Ammler> planetmaker: just in case, there are some coop games with firs
21:13:00  <planetmaker> Ammler: true, I migh look
21:13:22  <Ammler> but pre andy coding, I guess :-)
21:13:58  <planetmaker> hm... I guess I have to pull first, andythenorth ;-)
21:14:06  <andythenorth> I guess
21:14:36  <planetmaker> there was no action2 ID in that line :-P
21:14:59  <planetmaker> uhm... there still isn't. There was only one change which I had not
21:15:01  <andythenorth> our line numbers might be off due to the editor?
21:15:13  <planetmaker> how can they?
21:15:19  <andythenorth> you have the template_primary_action23?
21:15:27  <planetmaker> do you wrap lines?. Oh wrong file
21:15:38  <planetmaker> sorry
21:15:43  <andythenorth> np
21:16:01  <Ammler> the editor should also count wrapped lines as one ;-)
21:18:17  <planetmaker> andythenorth: then I'd add another action2, checking for grfparameter <LIMITS> - and then either return 'accept' or return B1. Right?
21:18:25  <andythenorth> exactly
21:18:53  <planetmaker> before or after this B1?
21:19:05  <andythenorth> do it after B1, give it ID B0
21:19:42  <planetmaker> yeah, thought so. I'll try to figure out now, if you don't mind and post / pm you what I have. That will teach me most ;-)
21:19:44  <planetmaker> if you don't mind
21:20:03  <planetmaker> hm... should there be another place this needs checking?
21:20:26  <andythenorth> yes there are several other places.  however we'll get to those
21:20:28  <dragonhorseboy> hmmm old bmw for parts for I or not...blah
21:20:30  <andythenorth> to carry on...there is a varaction 2 that handles the debug text.  just copy that
21:20:50  <andythenorth> oh, that one is only in template_manufacturing_action23.pnfo
21:21:16  <planetmaker> no probs
21:22:47  <andythenorth> ummm....I can't find that actually.  I had better fix my repo, I have a big chunk of code missing :o
21:23:32  <planetmaker> lines 312ff
21:23:46  <andythenorth> yes
21:24:07  <andythenorth> both my local copy of that template, and the .orig file I have are...wrong
21:24:17  <andythenorth> when I pull, no changes are found :o
21:24:27  <andythenorth> I guess I revert
21:25:16  <andythenorth> fixed
21:25:53  <planetmaker> :-P
21:26:06  <planetmaker> you know that you can revert single files, do you?
21:26:44  <andythenorth> yep
21:26:47  <andythenorth> did that
21:27:11  <planetmaker> andythenorth: good. back to topic: but afaik that's only the industry tiles we change now. Do you know where industry is defined?
21:27:48  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the templates are for the industry ;) the tiles are
21:28:15  <planetmaker> ah, no, vice versa
21:28:20  <planetmaker> yes
21:29:32  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth think 'survey supplies; could probably had included tents, shovels, and the like of?
21:29:40  <dragonhorseboy> ;='*
21:30:54  <andythenorth> planetmaker: to change tile acceptance, we need to edit every industry that uses Supplies
21:30:59  <andythenorth> or, it could be templated
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21:36:23  <planetmaker> andythenorth: ok, I see...
21:36:29  <planetmaker> I thought already so.
21:36:41  <planetmaker> so... using then arable_farm:
21:37:02  <andythenorth> I would template IDs C0 and C1 at a minimum
21:37:12  <andythenorth> maybe the action 3 as well
21:37:42  <planetmaker> hm, yes.
21:38:00  <planetmaker> probably a good idea. And moving the CB handling between C1 and C0
21:38:09  <planetmaker> and having the limit check in the then re-worked C0
21:39:57  <andythenorth> Keep C0 the same.  Move C1 to C2 and add a check in a new C1
21:40:49  <planetmaker> ok, sounds like a plan. But that's all afaik, is it?
21:41:07  <planetmaker> 'all'
21:42:41  <andythenorth> planetmaker: there are also the industry strings to handle
21:44:25  <planetmaker> andythenorth: hm... you mean showing the limits... ? right...
21:44:33  <andythenorth> yep
21:44:50  <planetmaker> action7 :-P
21:44:57  <andythenorth> nope
21:45:00  <andythenorth> varaction 2
21:45:05  <andythenorth> it's simple, just....more
21:45:15  <andythenorth> tomator sauce with spaghetti code anyone?
21:45:56  <andythenorth> tomato /s
21:46:57  <planetmaker> o_O
21:47:07  <planetmaker> the limit is still hard coded for the strings in the arable farm
21:47:15  <planetmaker> not using the defined template
21:47:44  <planetmaker> s/template/LIMIT_DEFINE_WHATEVER/
21:47:50  <andythenorth> that limit was legacy
21:48:11  <andythenorth> I was trying 192 to try and handle the latency in turning off acceptance
21:48:20  <andythenorth> didn't work.  frosch advised against
21:48:44  <planetmaker> 192?
21:49:26  <andythenorth> don't worry about it, it was me trying to work around a bug in openttd.
21:49:35  <andythenorth> that one can safely be replaced with a define
21:50:05  <planetmaker> k
21:51:35  <planetmaker> I've tagged it now all. I'll need to sort it out in detail later.
21:51:46  <planetmaker> Now I need sleep. Quite urgently
21:51:55  <planetmaker> Thanks for your patience, andythenorth :-)
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21:52:16  <andythenorth> good night
21:52:21  <planetmaker> But... I'm happy that I basically figured out the right spots still... so I haven't forgotten it all ;-)
21:52:24  <planetmaker> have a good night
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23:25:09  <GT> Hi, still anyone arount
23:25:26  <PeterT> yes, GT
23:25:28  <GT> s/t/d/
23:25:42  <KenjiE20> if you have a question, I recommend just asking it
23:25:55  <KenjiE20> someones more likely to appear :)
23:27:13  <GT> Just wondering, I'm seriously considering setting up a project for 32 bpp graphics, would that have any chance of getting included on the devzone?
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23:28:09  <GT> BTW, I'm better known as GeekToo on the ottd forums
23:29:04  <welshdragon> GT: register it as a project
23:29:04  <PeterT> Oh, right
23:31:32  <KenjiE20> GT: pretty high, I think various members have offered to host such a project numerous times
23:32:20  <KenjiE20> you may need to prod earlier in the day to get someone do any admin stuff mind
23:33:56  <GT> Yeah, I know, it's about time I quit too, couldnt make it earlier. I'm thinking about starting slowly with a newgrf replacing the ofgxe_extra.grf, and then slowly expand it.
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23:37:50  <Ammler> GT, didn't you get pm from pm?
23:38:19  <KenjiE20> recursion!
23:38:36  <Ammler> GT, didn't you get pm from pm :-)
23:38:56  <Ammler> mäh
23:39:28  <Ammler> you are very welcome here, I meant :-)
23:39:45  <KenjiE20>
23:39:47  <Webster> Title: recursion - Google Search (at
23:39:54  <KenjiE20> old but relevent
23:40:19  <KenjiE20> :P
23:41:00  <Ammler> GT, maybe also a place for the 32bpp EZL patch
23:44:13  <GT> You're right, after really reading my PM's the question was irrelevant. EZL would also be nice, the newgrf would be fit for normal zoom and EZL, seperate tars for the trunk and EZL would be needed, but some simple makefile-ing could bundle that appropriately, I guess
23:45:30  <Ammler> and maybe, there is also a possibility to include the jupix repo?
23:46:36  <Ammler> please register at the DevZone, if you didn't already
23:47:11  <Ammler> then we can make a project and assign you as manager, then you are able to create subprojects on your own
23:47:17  <Ammler> or assign others to your porjects
23:48:11  <GT> Checked your setup page, a bit Windows oriented, I'm usually on Gentoo for development, but I've got hg installed already, and setting up a public key with keygen will work too. About the Jupix repo, I think it has its use for providing alternate graphics for artist developing pngs. Once they release a set, we can include it into the tars, that would be only one set, without alternative downloads. And yes, I already registered on DevZone
23:50:13  <GT> And sorry for being so late, I have to work tomorrow, and leaving now, but I'll get in touch soon. CU
23:51:11  <Ammler>
23:51:24  <Ammler> you can there create projects and play around
23:52:00  <Ammler> (I wouldn't use that project for something real, just as entry page for now.
23:52:30  <PeterT> yay! we have a 32bpp goign!
23:52:36  <Ammler> feel free to play around with settings, create a subproject and ask if there is something
23:52:42  <PeterT> no chance of Online Content?
23:52:56  <PeterT> perhaps then we can get 100^4 mirrors!
23:53:25  <Ammler> well, right now, we could also host the "big" tar files
23:53:44  <Ammler>
23:53:51  <Ammler> I did already once :-)
23:54:18  <GT> @Ammler, thanks, will do (playing around), and though this is very interesting, I'm really quitting now, see you
23:54:31  <Ammler> yes, cu :-)
23:54:33  <Ammler> good night
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23:56:48  <Ammler> he, since opengfx is available through the betas (installer), our download traffic dopped around the half 400 -> 200
23:58:23  <Ammler> I also wonder, why the 32bpp big pack packager zip their files
23:58:36  <Ammler> as the content of the tar is already compressed (png)

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