Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 22nd February 2010:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:17:36  *** PeterT_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
00:18:15  *** PeterT_ has quit IRC
00:37:06  *** PeterT has quit IRC
00:37:34  *** PeterT has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
01:46:46  *** Frankr has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
02:15:05  *** Frankr has quit IRC
02:16:17  <PeterT> Ammler: What files should I submit to complete a hungarian translation for ap+?
02:17:27  <PeterT> I'm currently translating en.msg
02:17:43  <PeterT> /autopilot/lang/en.msg
02:24:15  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
02:26:03  <Ammler> PeterT: you know, AP+ is depreciated
02:26:17  <PeterT> No, I didn't know that
02:26:24  <PeterT> I will translate avignon also, the
02:26:26  <PeterT> *then
02:26:37  <PeterT> but the thing is, I can't find avignon's svn repo
02:26:44  <PeterT> just *.tar.gz downloads
02:26:51  <PeterT> and I want to submit a diff
02:26:56  <Ammler>
02:27:14  <Ammler> but why not wait for the release...
02:27:16  <PeterT> Ok, I'm there
02:27:31  <PeterT> Well, if I translate, it will be in the release?
02:27:45  <Ammler> post a diff there :-)
02:27:57  <PeterT> ah, here it is!
02:28:14  <Ammler> yes
02:28:26  <PeterT> it is not mentioned anywhere :S
02:28:47  <Ammler> the url should tell you, it isn't a project of DevZone
02:29:00  <Ammler> so don't report here, report there :-P
02:29:21  <PeterT> right..
02:29:26  <PeterT> I'll translate both
02:29:35  <PeterT> but first, I'm finishing ap+'s translation
02:29:42  <PeterT> I don't care if it's depricated
02:29:54  * Ammler wouldn't wonder, if the translation wouldn't work
02:30:01  <Ammler> as nobody ever used it :-)
02:30:52  <Ammler> but I had a need for it 3 years ago
02:31:01  <Ammler> as I ran a German server
02:31:21  <PeterT> Hmm
02:31:56  <PeterT> gah, openttd.tcl from avignon has the translations right in the file
02:32:00  <PeterT> not seperately
02:32:00  <Ammler> you need to run openttd and avignon/ap with same language
02:32:15  <PeterT> yeah, will do
02:32:49  *** Frankr has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
02:32:49  <Ammler> 2-4 for you already :-P
02:33:14  *** PeterT has quit IRC
02:35:01  *** PeterT has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
02:35:14  <PeterT> @logs
02:35:14  <Webster> Logs:
02:35:39  *** PeterT_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
02:36:46  *** PeterT has quit IRC
02:37:37  *** PeterT_ is now known as PeterT
02:37:48  <Ammler> you found finally a bnc?
02:38:05  <PeterT> yeah
02:38:11  <PeterT> what is my hostname?
02:38:15  <PeterT> provided by the kind, Jolteon
02:38:21  <Ammler> whois
02:39:09  <PeterT> nice, it's at a website instead of an IP
03:19:37  *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
04:13:42  *** welshdragon has quit IRC
04:35:50  *** Frankr has quit IRC
04:47:24  *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
05:04:04  *** welshdragon is now known as Guest121
05:04:12  *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
05:12:11  *** welshdragon has quit IRC
05:36:14  *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
06:07:11  *** welshdragon has quit IRC
06:45:56  *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
09:00:58  <planetmaker> Rubidium, concerning OpenMSX: description       = OpenMSX sound replacement set for OpenTTD. Freely available under the terms of the GPL v2 and the Creative Commons Sampling Plus 1.0 License. For full credits see "readme.txt"
09:01:15  <planetmaker> I'll contact the translators which posted something so far.
09:06:35  *** yorick has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
09:44:40  <planetmaker> he, moin yorick :-)
09:45:21  <Rubidium> planetmaker: added
09:45:29  <planetmaker> thanks :-)
09:46:19  <yorick> moin planetmaker
09:47:23  <yorick> any WAS people online?
09:49:16  <yorick> our hosting people are starting to complain a bit
09:52:57  *** welshdragon has quit IRC
10:11:28  *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
10:16:28  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Autopilot - Feature #748 (New): let !playercount distinguish between players and spectators <>
11:36:49  *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
11:49:25  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Autopilot - Feature #748: let !playercount distinguish between players and spectators <>
13:18:03  *** ODM has quit IRC
13:22:56  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 0: Add: Initial import <> || Redmine - Revision 3315: Avoid unnecessary SQL queries when loading changesets. <> || Redmine - Revision 3314: Memorize commit authors to speed up changesets loading. <> || Redmine - Revision 3313: Adds a missing index (speeds up changesets loading). <>
13:25:57  <planetmaker> !cf openmsx
13:27:29  <Ammler> he :-)
13:27:46  <Ammler> python?
13:30:29  <Ammler> do we really support non-gpl?
13:30:52  <Ammler> I thought, opensfx was a exception because of the need
13:59:04  <planetmaker> I chose a dual-license for the simple reason I don't want this project to fail, if there's going to be much content which is only under the creative sampling license
13:59:14  <planetmaker> So currently this is both.
13:59:29  <planetmaker> And yes, nice python scripts there :-P
14:00:01  <Ammler> well, who do I need speak to to change the license?
14:00:13  <planetmaker> None
14:00:21  <planetmaker> You can chose. gpl v2 or sampling
14:00:31  <planetmaker> or both
14:00:38  <Ammler> no, I mean, which author doesn't like to use gpl?
14:00:49  <planetmaker> All three are fine with GPL
14:01:18  <planetmaker> I chose to have the option of the sampling license to _possibly_ include other midis where I don't have that option
14:01:44  <planetmaker> E.g. if there's a big midi source out there where I could just rip-off one complete music theme - but which allows it only under the sampling license
14:01:48  <Ammler> well, but why do you need to define that alreaddy?
14:01:57  <Ammler> you could have changed it if needed...
14:02:06  <planetmaker> If I asked the current authors now, I don't have to go and have a license discussion later
14:02:20  <planetmaker> And later the current contributors might not be available anymore
14:02:37  <planetmaker> I did that exactly for the reason: no license discussions. Whatever there will be.
14:02:50  <planetmaker> This way I can chose.
14:05:00  <planetmaker> Sure enough, when I see that I can chose GPL without lengthening the time till a full first version is done, then I'll drop the sampling license.
14:05:13  <planetmaker> Kinda silently branch ;-)
14:05:51  <Ammler> yeah, I would have liked the other way more, that's all :-)
14:06:09  <Ammler> if you see no chance to make a GPL release, add the cc
14:06:41  <Ammler> but it is fine.
14:06:56  <Ammler> just wondered, you made it that way.
14:07:21  <planetmaker> well. If I have to ask later, I have that nasty license discussion at hand which we all know ;-)
14:07:35  <planetmaker> Possibly then dropping other parts
14:09:23  <planetmaker> let's say: I'm not really happy with it, but having seen how OpenSFX went, I wanted to take the cautious side
14:09:49  <Ammler> opensfx is completely something else
14:09:58  <Ammler> as that uses existing samples
14:10:17  <planetmaker> yes. And I *think* this might be partially done here, too
14:10:34  *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
14:10:36  <planetmaker> I just didn't search much. But there are some postings in the thread which suggest that there are existing sources of midi files
14:10:47  <planetmaker> licensed exactly under that: the sampling license
14:12:45  <planetmaker> concerning python: I thought this might be a nice easy place to start with it ;-)
14:12:47  <planetmaker> And it was
14:13:02  <planetmaker> first python scripts by me ever ;-)
14:13:11  <yorick> ooh, python :)
14:13:28  <yorick> but did you know it has builtin md5?
14:13:36  <planetmaker> no :-P
14:13:52  <yorick> python kinda has builtin everything
14:14:02  <yorick>
14:14:09  <planetmaker> he, thanks
14:14:25  <planetmaker> the problem is to find it ;-)
14:16:18  <yorick> also: string.split(thing) -> thing.split()
14:16:24  <yorick> same with strip
14:16:31  <yorick> and find
14:19:48  <planetmaker> well... there I prefer the way I wrote it. It makes it clear that it's a function call
14:20:30  <yorick> don't like OOP? :P
14:21:15  <yorick> and also.... sys.stdout.write(res+"\n") -> print res
14:22:46  <planetmaker> I took it straight from the manual. I won't change that
14:23:27  <planetmaker> At least not till I understood the differences ;-)
14:23:50  <yorick> print = sys.stdout.write(x + "\n")
14:23:52  <yorick> but shorter
14:24:29  <planetmaker> hm, well. Then I wonder why they don't use it in the manual that way, but in other places
14:24:48  <Ammler> oh planetmaker, you made the python scripts?
14:24:55  <Ammler> grat :-)
14:24:59  <yorick>
14:25:00  <Webster> Title: PEP 214 -- Extended Print Statement (at
14:25:30  <planetmaker> Ammler, who else?
14:25:50  <planetmaker> but thanks :-)
14:25:54  <Ammler> I thought, you get help from someone :-)
14:26:47  * yorick goes and improves scripts
14:27:39  <yorick> hmm scons would be nice when you're doing python
14:28:23  <planetmaker> nah, that's what I spent quite some time on, yesterday, Ammler :-)
14:28:53  <planetmaker> I still haven't discounted to let gcc go and replace quite a bit of the stuff and defines by python
14:29:12  <planetmaker> would make for better template-ification, allow loops and more easily lists
14:29:36  <yorick> Ammler: you have public checkouts, right?
14:29:48  <planetmaker> yorick, anyone has
14:30:07  <Ammler>
14:30:13  <yorick> thanks :)
14:30:24  <planetmaker> what are scons
14:30:25  <planetmaker> ?
14:30:34  <yorick> scons is like make, but in python
14:30:46  <planetmaker> well, that won't happen :-)
14:31:10  <planetmaker> a project needs a makefile :-)
14:31:14  <yorick> with nice automatic dependencies and such
14:31:27  <Ammler> yorick: you mean "python build"
14:31:30  <yorick> you'll just tell the makefile to call scons
14:31:30  <Ammler> and install
14:31:35  <yorick> Ammler: no, I mean scons build
14:31:53  <Ammler> never saw such python projects
14:31:54  <yorick>
14:31:55  <Webster> Title: SCons: A software construction tool (at
14:31:58  <yorick> google uses it
14:32:06  <yorick> is distutils
14:34:51  <yorick> hmm this makefile of yours is slow
14:35:46  <Ammler> yorick: planetmaker, I have a python tool idea, a small one
14:36:31  <Ammler> something to build authorized_keys
14:38:30  * yorick goes fixing the makefile
14:38:45  <planetmaker> ... whatever
14:46:10  <yorick> when I press ctrl-C, it gives a mercurial traceback
14:54:23  <yorick>
14:54:25  <planetmaker> yes, and?
14:54:39  <planetmaker> stopping a python script always gives some kind of traceback...
14:55:19  <yorick> how does make clean take 30 seconds
14:57:29  <planetmaker> it goes through all those initial assignments nontheless
14:57:44  <planetmaker> but I don't think it's a bit problem
14:58:07  <yorick> those initial assignments aren't supposed to take >20 seconds, are they
15:06:36  <planetmaker> obviously they do. The makefiles are never faster. At least mine
15:06:46  <planetmaker> And I don't do few
15:06:55  <planetmaker> And they're all only expanded upon use
15:07:08  <yorick> that'd be yours then
15:07:08  <planetmaker> I didn't try wether := instead of = would be faster
15:07:27  <yorick> real   0m0.101s
15:07:33  <planetmaker> but then: I cannot use that everywhere. This way I don't have to think ;-)
15:08:08  <yorick> my makefiles are at least 300 times faster than yours :/
15:08:28  <planetmaker> congratulations. My makefiles are used on all but thre grfs here.
15:09:06  <yorick> heh...heh :/
15:09:14  <planetmaker> and it's hardly the case that you can compare two different makefiles of different projects and deduce something from the runtime
15:09:49  <yorick> true
15:10:00  <planetmaker> and especially a dependency check & generation is bound to take time
15:10:30  <yorick> dependencies aren't checked/generated with clean
15:10:36  <planetmaker> you err
15:10:48  <planetmaker> they are always checked
15:11:05  <yorick> shouldn't*
15:11:32  <planetmaker> needn't
15:11:48  <planetmaker> but shouldn't... there's nothing wrong with it.
15:12:23  <planetmaker> besides... I did maintain mine while you left your WAS people
15:14:25  <planetmaker> so... dropping in, after month, constating that everything is wrong while having done nothing whatsoever feels a bit sour.
15:17:23  <yorick> my "ur doin it rong" was ment to help, not as an insult :|
15:31:18  <Ammler> yorick: maybe you can submit a patch?
15:32:59  <yorick> I'm trying to find out what makes it so slow, currently
15:44:30  <yorick> ok...DIR_NAME is taking 20s
15:52:37  <yorick> planetmaker, Ammler: submitted patch
15:56:10  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Patch #749 (New): Makefile slow <> || #openttdcoop Avignon Plugin - Revision 17: -Update: Added cmds 'trains' and 'tunnels' <> || Avignon - Revision 571: -Fix: Alias plugin missed a check <>
16:06:51  <planetmaker> what's the approx. speed gain, yorick ?
16:07:17  <Ammler> 20 secs :-)
16:07:33  <yorick> real0m1.265s
16:07:38  <Ammler> unbelieveable
16:08:34  <Ammler> just because you change "=" to ":="
16:09:06  <planetmaker> hm, might be that I should change more than one makefile in that respect...
16:09:37  <Ammler> I didn't test, just from what yorick posted
16:12:26  <planetmaker> 9.2s vs 0.8s
16:12:30  <planetmaker> factor 10. amazing.
16:12:38  <planetmaker> thanks, yorick
16:12:46  <yorick> :)
16:13:23  <Ammler> and why is that?
16:13:50  <planetmaker> direct assignment vs. assignement when used. Does that explain "why"? Not really for me, but...
16:14:04  <Ammler> :-)
16:14:06  <yorick> planetmaker: if you have some recursion...
16:14:41  <planetmaker> sure. But there's not much. Or should not be. Only a bit a = b c = a + d e = c + f
16:15:27  <yorick> planetmaker: tar_filename ->dir_name->version_string
16:16:05  <planetmaker> yes. Doesn't see much to me. Obviously it is, though
16:16:49  <yorick> dir_name is used 21 times
16:18:42  <Ammler> so if you use =, it does calcualate it 21 times, if you use := it does the same once, only?
16:18:48  <yorick> yes
16:19:30  <yorick> it does $(shell hg parent --template="{tags}" | grep -v "tip" | cut -d\  -f1) 21 times
16:20:08  <Ammler> hg id might be better there anyway...
16:20:11  <yorick> and also many other things
16:24:05  <Ammler> he, my first package in official suse repos :-P
16:24:17  <Ammler> well, a update of it ;-)
16:37:07  <planetmaker> congrats. I just saw the e-mail, Ammler :-)
16:37:24  <Ammler> email?
16:37:47  <Ammler> hmm, isn't the address :-)
16:37:55  <planetmaker>
16:38:09  <planetmaker> which I obviously happen to receive, too ;-)
16:38:19  <planetmaker> I don't mind
16:38:35  <planetmaker> :-P
16:38:58  <planetmaker> from 14:28h the e-mail
16:40:03  <planetmaker> now the real time is 0.37s. That's quite a gain :-)
16:40:06  <planetmaker> 20 ... 30 times
16:40:08  <planetmaker> commited
16:40:14  <Ammler> ah, that is the account email
16:40:21  <Ammler> but the changelog is with my address
16:40:27  <planetmaker> :-)
16:40:55  <Ammler> not many mails to novell@ I guess
16:41:10  <Ammler> so I leave it, if it spams you, just make it an alias of Ammler
16:42:12  <Ammler> the update fixed a very important utf-8 issue
16:42:23  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Patch #749 (Closed): Makefile slow <" target="_blank">> || OpenMSX - Revision 1: Codechange: Speedup Makefile by a factor of 10 (based on patch by yorick, c... <> || OpenMSX - Patch #749 (Closed): Makefile slow <>
16:44:23  <SmatZ> The makefile currently takes over 20 seconds to clean, build, or anything else.
16:44:29  <SmatZ> does it mean it takes 2 seconds now?
16:45:08  <Ammler> openttd makefile already uses :=
16:45:35  <SmatZ> at least at places where it matters :)
16:45:37  <SmatZ> I hope
16:45:55  <Ammler> [17:12] <planetmaker> 9.2s vs 0.8s
16:46:19  <Ammler> SmatZ: so you knew about but didn't tell us?
16:46:27  <Ammler> :-P
16:46:41  <SmatZ> I didn't know it matters :)
16:46:48  <SmatZ> I am not as guru as yorick :D
16:47:14  <Ammler> yeah, he is genius
16:47:36  <SmatZ> yeah
16:48:03  <planetmaker> actually 9.2s vs. 0.4 :-P
16:48:19  <planetmaker> I added two other places which helped, also.
16:48:36  <SmatZ> planetmaker is genius as well :)
16:48:41  <planetmaker> lol
16:49:05  <Ammler> all here are, except me and XeryusTC
16:49:12  <SmatZ> :D
16:49:18  <planetmaker> you're the Uber-Geniuses.
16:49:25  <XeryusTC> i am?
16:49:33  <XeryusTC> i always thought i was just a fiddler :P
16:49:34  <Ammler> XeryusTC: EXCEPT
16:49:43  <SmatZ> hehehe
16:49:51  <planetmaker> hahaha :-)
16:49:55  <XeryusTC> Ammler: was responding to planetmaker ;)
16:49:58  <Ammler> no, you are :-P
16:52:26  <Ammler> <-- misses := also
16:52:39  <Ammler> and a "bundle_zip"
16:56:57  <planetmaker> it misses the generic makefile :-P
16:57:28  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 588: Change: Speedup the Makefile by a factor of 4 <>
16:57:37  <Ammler> yeah, but I am happy enough if it is possible to run "make bundle_zip"
16:57:47  * planetmaker , too
17:00:10  <planetmaker> so... firs and 2cctrainset are fast now. OpenGFX next, I guess :-)
17:04:00  <Ammler> :-)
17:04:50  <Ammler> you should have a ./ in the repos :-P
17:05:04  <planetmaker> well... yes.
17:05:24  <planetmaker> But it turned out that there are always subtle differences in the Makefiles...
17:05:52  <planetmaker> ... each grf is *slightly* different. Makes a universal patch for all those projects kinda difficult
17:06:10  <planetmaker> Well... Maybe I should make a move to unify it again :-)
17:06:22  <planetmaker> And simplify
17:06:25  <planetmaker> At the same time
17:06:39  <planetmaker> No nasty options for users other than names.
17:08:20  <Ammler> or change to :-P
17:08:30  <planetmaker> :-P
17:08:39  <Ammler> or what our guru suggested
17:09:03  <planetmaker> That's more work than it's worth. Right now at least.
17:09:41  <planetmaker> what I *do* want is some python-ification instead of the gcc #define mania
17:10:20  <planetmaker> but that's a low priority very-long-term (if at all) kind of project
17:10:59  <Ammler> well, but scons might be worth a look at...
17:11:32  <Ammler> since python is quite a common installation everywhere
17:11:47  <Ammler> at least on linux and on windows with mercurial
17:13:45  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Revision 301: Change: Speedup make by a factor of two <> || 2cc train set - Revision 448: Change: Speedup the Makefile by a factor of 5 <>
17:14:20  <Ammler> why has opengfx only 2?
17:20:10  <planetmaker> the grfcodec compile time is MUCH longer
17:20:18  <planetmaker> 50s vs. 23s
17:29:49  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 214: Change: Speedup make by a factor of four <>
17:30:37  <Rubidium> be aware of the subtle differences between := and =
17:34:02  <Rubidium> just a random question: how do I override the nforenum I'd like to use for OpenGFX, e.g. use nforenum instead of renum?
17:34:47  <Rubidium> cause cp Makefile.local.sample Makefile.local and then changing the renum line doesn't do the trick
17:35:29  <Rubidium> there are stray tabs in Makefile.config (of OpenGFX) too
17:35:46  <Rubidium> stray as in: used for aligning where the rest of the items use spaces
17:40:51  <planetmaker> yes... do they hurt?
17:41:19  <planetmaker> (besides that you're right, that consistency is better)
17:41:49  <planetmaker> As I understood it := is assignement where this line is
17:41:56  <planetmaker> with = it is only evaluated when used.
17:42:12  <planetmaker> which might make a difference, if vars change during runtime.
17:52:04  *** Frankr has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
18:03:00  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: how do i add a "r27" (ish) to the nutracks?
18:19:00  <Ammler> XeryusTC: [19:08] <Priski> I didn't like OGFX at first but now I like it, it has more 'cleaner' look
18:19:18  <XeryusTC> so?
18:19:23  <Ammler> isn't that the reason you play original?
18:19:27  <Ammler> prefer*
18:19:46  <Ammler> just nice, how people use same reason for both :-D
18:20:31  <planetmaker> DJNekkid, you mean in the filename or in the ingame name of the grf?
18:21:58  <XeryusTC> Ammler: no it isn't, i dont like the inconsistency and the darkness of OGFX
18:22:10  <XeryusTC> also, this discussion is pointless and basicly the same as TTDP vs OTTD
18:22:37  <Ammler> XeryusTC: wasn't meant for discussion, just a funny note...
18:22:53  <XeryusTC> you are always starting a discussion about it
18:22:55  <Ammler> I don't really care
18:22:57  <planetmaker> <XeryusTC> also, this discussion is pointless and basicly the same as TTDP vs OTTD <-- very true
18:23:12  <planetmaker> though there's one 'better' set :-P
18:23:14  <XeryusTC> Ammler: why do you bring it up then every other week?
18:23:29  <Ammler> :-o
18:23:33  <Ammler> ok
18:27:06  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: in the newgrf-list ingame
18:27:20  <planetmaker> about to commit it ;-)
18:27:47  <planetmaker> actually the same way as in 2cctrainset and also the nutracks readme: {{GRF_TITLE}}
18:27:55  <planetmaker> which will be replaced by that string
18:28:50  <planetmaker> pushed
18:29:13  <DJNekkid> okidoki :)
18:29:15  <DJNekkid> thanx! :)
18:29:20  <planetmaker> no problem
18:30:32  <DJNekkid> about to create a thread for it also :)
18:30:37  <planetmaker> :-)
18:30:53  <planetmaker> btw, DJNekkid, the makefiles got faster ;-)
18:30:59  <DJNekkid> i saw that
18:31:18  <DJNekkid> not that i have complained about its fastnes after i use linux to compile it
18:32:00  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Nutracks - Revision 10: Change: Add the version to the grf's name <>
18:33:26  <Frankr> Dj
18:33:39  <DJNekkid> hi Frankr
18:34:21  <Frankr> some comparison costs, for you, A380 251k, A380F 281k
18:34:46  <Frankr> they will be WAS costs, if you plan changing the chimera
18:34:52  <Frankr> still
18:35:13  <Frankr> concorde ar 120k
18:35:47  <Frankr> 747's in the range of 180k - 230k
18:37:11  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: arent there any nightlies on the nutracks yet?
18:37:31  <planetmaker> uhm, I guess that wasn't activated. It needs handwork on the server
18:37:45  <DJNekkid> oki... :)
18:38:18  <DJNekkid> is it possible to add that, and make one? :P
18:38:26  <DJNekkid> im about to make a NuTracks post on the forums
18:38:29  <planetmaker> yes, I'm already on it
18:38:43  <Frankr> :)
18:38:53  <planetmaker> It will be the usual links. Just use e.g. the 2cctrainset and replace that by nutracks
18:38:56  <Frankr> you fixed the problem with it DJ
18:39:57  <DJNekkid> ehm ...
18:40:05  <DJNekkid>
18:40:15  <DJNekkid> i fixed what problem Frankr ?
18:40:54  <Frankr> i recall you having a problem with something yesterday i thought when you were play testing
18:41:01  <Frankr> or is it just my memory, lol
18:41:39  <DJNekkid> no real problem
18:41:41  <DJNekkid> just minor ones :)
18:41:47  <Frankr> :)
18:42:07  <planetmaker> DJNekkid,
18:42:35  <DJNekkid> failed???
18:43:01  <DJNekkid> there is a .ptxt
18:43:04  <planetmaker> it didn't find the license file :-P
18:43:08  <planetmaker> yeah
18:43:16  <planetmaker> obviously it's missing *something*
18:43:18  <DJNekkid> i _thought_ that is what i were supposed to use?
18:43:28  <planetmaker> Let me look
18:44:59  <planetmaker> I guess it's getting really time to unify the makefiles as much as possible :S
18:46:05  <DJNekkid> what about:
18:46:09  <DJNekkid> makefile.set
18:46:16  <planetmaker> something like that
18:46:21  <planetmaker> or Makefile.common
18:46:23  <DJNekkid> that is included from the "main" makefile
18:46:28  <DJNekkid> or that
18:46:28  <planetmaker> yes, like that
18:46:39  <DJNekkid> and the main makefile is the same no matter what set it is in
18:46:59  <planetmaker> well. The problem are obviously these kind of differences.
18:47:23  <planetmaker> The Makefile you copied doesn't want ptxt, but the txt straight away. Not every newgrf uses that. etc
18:47:31  <planetmaker> But they might as well do so.
18:47:37  <planetmaker> I shall go through them all.
18:47:45  <DJNekkid> i took the 2cc sets file...
18:48:31  <planetmaker> he, yes, it doesn't use it. Probably as only one :S
18:49:06  <DJNekkid> atleast, i think it was the 2cc files...
18:49:14  <planetmaker> yes, it looks the same.
18:50:39  <planetmaker> ah. You mis-spelled license ;-)
18:50:48  <Frankr> :)
18:50:59  <DJNekkid> probably my dyslecsia :)
18:51:15  <Frankr> :p
18:57:42  <planetmaker> <-- DJNekkid
18:59:06  <DJNekkid> goodie!
19:00:16  <planetmaker> I'll make another push
19:02:04  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Nutracks - Revision 11: Fix: License instead of licence and add a rule to generate txt files from... <>
19:17:06  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Nutracks - Revision 12: Change: Speed up make a bit <>
19:24:22  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: should i make a wiki-page somewhere regarding the nutracks?
19:32:38  <planetmaker> DJNekkid, seems sensible
19:34:34  <planetmaker> you can use whichever wiki you like, I guess.
19:34:54  <planetmaker> At devzone, the openttdcoop, the openttd wiki or request from orudge a separate page ;-)
19:40:54  <DJNekkid> i dont really need a separate page do i? :)
19:41:01  <DJNekkid> i can just add it to my own server if i need so :)
19:42:40  <planetmaker> well... if that is and remains available 24/7/365
19:42:51  <planetmaker> tt-forums is a good address ;-)
19:44:28  <DJNekkid> it sure is....
19:44:56  <DJNekkid> it is available 24/7/365
19:45:09  <DJNekkid> and will be unless someone hacks my box :)
20:13:03  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: didnt you say that building a km (or whatever length-value) of maglev cost about the same as ICE3-tracks?
20:13:34  <planetmaker> yes. de.wikipedia tells so
20:16:28  <DJNekkid> oki :)
20:19:55  <planetmaker> DJNekkid, de.wikipedia is not the Dutch wiki ;-)
20:20:26  <planetmaker> that'd be nl.wikipedia :-P
20:25:53  <DJNekkid> ehm
20:25:54  <DJNekkid> ofcourse!
20:26:08  <DJNekkid> i were thinking of the german word for ... german :)
20:27:01  <DJNekkid> and that is _somewhat_ similar to dutch
20:27:15  <DJNekkid> atleast, it start with D and got a tch'sound
20:29:11  <yorick> and it's in fact the same word :)
20:29:18  <yorick> but one more englified
20:30:27  <DJNekkid> well, i speak neither, but i pick up some words here and there...
20:30:38  <DJNekkid> ich sprechen nicht deutch (or something)
20:30:51  <yorick> ich auch nicht
20:30:52  <DJNekkid> and ... je ne parle pas francoise
20:31:09  <Ammler> français
20:31:19  <yorick> me neither :)
20:31:27  <Ammler> moi aussi
20:31:29  <DJNekkid> i dont have that fancy C on my keyboard
20:31:32  <planetmaker> moi aussi
20:32:06  <Ammler> DJNekkid: swiss keyboard needs both, Umlauts of German and French
20:32:21  <DJNekkid> aye :)
20:32:24  <Ammler> no idea, why
20:32:41  <Ammler> as there is a german-swiss and french-swiss layout
20:32:54  <DJNekkid> you are in a language scitzo country
20:33:15  <Ammler> indeed double scitzo
20:33:34  <DJNekkid> french, german and italian, right?
20:33:47  <planetmaker> you forgot rätoromanisch
20:33:51  <Ammler> and a kind of latin
20:34:10  <DJNekkid> well, we have 3 languages in norway also...
20:34:15  <DJNekkid> but two of them are VERY similar
20:34:20  <DJNekkid> and the 3rd one is pakistani :P
20:34:22  <yorick> we only have frisians
20:34:22  <DJNekkid> no wait ..
20:34:24  <DJNekkid> thats sami :)
20:34:29  <yorick> and those are strange
20:35:21  <DJNekkid> but norwegian and new norwegian are quite similar...
20:36:01  <DJNekkid> new norwegian is actually more a collection of dialect words
20:37:04  <Ammler> Wikinasian
20:39:06  <yorick> hmm...either 1.there's something wrong with the structs, 2.there's something wrong with the endianness and really the temperature is constantly changing while the decimals remain the same 3.there's something wrong with the IEEE-754 Floating-Point conversion or 4.My chip is really 53.622 degrees
20:39:50  <yorick> or there's something wrong with the registers :)
20:40:06  <planetmaker> what's wrong about 53 degrees in a cpu?
20:40:48  <planetmaker> besides 91.4590387385 of all statistics claim a greater accuracy than appropriate.
20:40:54  <planetmaker> %
20:41:12  <yorick> it's 53 degrees in some embedded chip
20:41:23  <planetmaker> yes, and?
20:41:27  <yorick> and they said I should expect something in the order of 30
20:41:46  *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
20:42:06  <Rubidium> planetmaker, but ... my vote statistics are 100% accurate!
20:42:11  <yorick> planetmaker: 42.7% of the statistics are made up
20:42:36  <planetmaker> hehe @ Rubidium :-)
20:42:58  <DJNekkid> statistics is made to be misused
20:43:46  * planetmaker currently works with 30 "representitive" particles out of ~3k
20:43:54  <yorick> ok...either it's option 4 or the error is celsius-farenheit-conversion proof
20:46:12  <DJNekkid> what is the f-c conversion again? c = (f-32)/1,8 ?
20:46:17  <DJNekkid> no
20:46:28  <DJNekkid> f/1,8)-32
20:46:37  <DJNekkid> 0c is -32f
20:58:06  <Ammler> no interesting finals :-)
20:58:21  <DJNekkid> ski sprint!
20:58:28  <Ammler> yeah
20:58:52  <Ammler> swe will win
20:59:03  <DJNekkid> no she wont :D
20:59:31  <Ammler> hehe
20:59:59  <DJNekkid> but yea, probably :(
21:00:10  <Ammler> :-D
21:00:12  <yorick> it'd be fun if they crash
21:00:45  <Ammler> why didn't we have a 2nd good sprinter
21:01:05  <DJNekkid> but you know, the swizz guys were 0.4sec from the final
21:01:12  <Ammler> yeah
21:01:23  <Ammler> well, they might not have been started anyway
21:02:38  <Ammler> that diszipline is for Swiss like alpine for Norway...
21:02:43  <Ammler> or worse
21:02:52  <Ammler> only one single good man
21:03:43  <DJNekkid> yea... :)
21:04:05  <DJNekkid> we used to have 2 or 3 ...
21:04:17  <DJNekkid> lasse kjus and kjetil Aamodt...
21:04:26  <DJNekkid> in the more speedy ones, plus combi
21:04:44  <DJNekkid> and there have usually been one slalom specialist
21:05:15  <DJNekkid> Ole Furuseth, Finn Jagge and lately Hans Burås
21:05:49  <DJNekkid> late 80s and early 90's, the 90's, and late 90's and 2000's
21:06:21  <Ammler> well on that time, we were top on alpine
21:06:32  <DJNekkid> yup...'
21:06:39  <Ammler> but long ago :-(
21:06:53  <DJNekkid> were usually norway vs swizz, with some occational austrian
21:06:55  <Ammler> but it might come back a bit now.
21:07:11  <DJNekkid> now its more like austria vs austria, with occational norwegian and swizz dude
21:07:30  <Ammler> well, austrian is kinda without any competitors
21:07:57  <Ammler> but they are worst in the olympics :-)
21:08:14  <DJNekkid> lucky for us occationals :)
21:08:19  <Ammler> :-D
21:08:38  <Ammler> I guess, USA is the best
21:09:24  <Ammler> but the habbitants there don't care :'-(
21:10:17  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 449: Add: NS6300 <>
21:10:49  * PeterT goes to open a patch issue at
21:11:53  <DJNekkid> but USA have (well, not entierly) aprox the same population as europe
21:12:01  <DJNekkid> and europe has MANY more medals! :)
21:12:52  <DJNekkid> well, europe have about 2xthe population of USA...
21:13:24  <Ammler> that doesn't count ;-)
21:13:40  <Ammler> we aren't in the EU :-P
21:13:47  <DJNekkid> we either
21:13:48  <DJNekkid> :D
21:13:59  <Ammler> yeah, we was meant for us :-)
21:15:12  <DJNekkid> and you guys dont have MUCH more people then norway
21:15:37  * PeterT goes to open a patch issue at
21:15:48  <PeterT> Ammler: what files do I need to upload with translation?
21:15:56  <DJNekkid> alittle less then 5mill here, and a fair bit less then 8 on you
21:16:08  <Ammler> we have more than norway?
21:16:15  <Ammler> why are we worse then?
21:17:23  <Ammler> PeterT: I told you, no idea, check wiki or
21:17:37  <PeterT> Ammler: this. is. ap+!!!!
21:17:46  <DJNekkid> go germany!
21:18:19  <DJNekkid> not that you care planetmaker, but congratulations :)
21:18:22  <Ammler> you prefer Germany above Sweden?
21:18:26  <DJNekkid> by far!
21:18:29  <Ammler> :-D
21:18:33  <Ammler> bad neighbour
21:18:36  <yorick> I prefer sweden above germany
21:18:40  <yorick> nothing personal :P
21:18:43  <DJNekkid> hehe
21:18:48  <planetmaker> bad neighbour ;-)
21:19:03  <DJNekkid> Swden is to Norway, as Liverpool is to Manchester :)
21:19:13  <Ammler> Germany has enough Gold
21:19:41  <DJNekkid> sure, but sweden should not have any ... at all!
21:19:44  <DJNekkid> :D
21:20:13  <planetmaker> Ammler: nevvaar!
21:20:13  <Ammler> yeah, it is like we feel about Austria in alpine ;-)
21:20:35  <DJNekkid> indeed
21:25:47  <DJNekkid> lol
21:26:13  <DJNekkid> the norwegian curling team pants have more then 300k fans on facebook
21:26:56  <Ammler> if they will play again against us, they lose
21:27:44  <Ammler> most likely in the semi final
21:29:35  <DJNekkid> well... now Øystein "the sausage" Pettersen is running in the sprint finale ...
21:29:36  <DJNekkid> ttyl :)
21:29:49  <Ammler> no sweden there
21:40:41  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Autopilot - Patch #750 (New): Hungarian Translations <>
21:42:15  <Ammler> PeterT: sure, you used right codepage?
21:42:24  <PeterT> Yes?
21:42:42  <PeterT> its autopilot
21:43:47  <planetmaker> code page as in utf-8 / ...
21:44:06  <PeterT> I don't know
21:44:20  <PeterT> I'm not sure how :Z
21:44:29  <planetmaker> it looks funny...
21:44:51  <Ammler> it looks like you used acient iso-8859 (latin)
21:46:05  <PeterT> Do I need to re-translate it, or just save in utf-8?
21:46:18  <Ammler> PeterT: where does that hungarian server run?
21:46:40  <PeterT> What hungarian server?
21:47:17  <Ammler> yeah, why else did you translate?
21:47:41  <PeterT> ...
21:47:53  <planetmaker> <-- that's what it looks for me
21:48:20  <Ammler> planetmaker: change it to iso8859
21:48:23  <DJNekkid> jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
21:48:25  <PeterT> same it for me
21:48:29  <Ammler> grat DJNekkid
21:48:32  <PeterT> * same for me
21:48:38  <PeterT> I will make a new utf-8 diff
21:49:06  <Ammler> well, I leave it to osai to add it :-)
21:50:21  <Ammler> mäh, I guess, I go to bed, no special event this night
21:50:28  <Ammler> need to sleep a bit.
21:50:43  <yorick> Ammler: what do dedicated servers cost?
21:50:48  <yorick> with nice openttd on it?
21:50:57  <Ammler> you like to buy one?
21:50:59  <PeterT> Fixed
21:51:07  * PeterT waits for Webster to update
21:51:09  <yorick> hmm...more like rent
21:51:15  <Ammler> we sell openttd dedicated servers for 5€/month ;-)
21:51:24  <PeterT> Wow, quite cheap
21:51:34  <yorick> Ammler: nice webhosting on it too?
21:51:36  <yorick> domain?
21:51:38  <yorick> email?
21:51:38  <yorick> :P
21:51:46  <Ammler> yes not problem
21:52:10  <Ammler> but mail only 50 account with around 10gig per account
21:52:19  <yorick> and ofcourse forum :P
21:53:15  <Ammler> if you seriously like to buy one, ask planetmaker, the sales manager
21:53:44  <yorick> we are looking into alternatives because our current hosters would like to have us gone
21:53:47  <planetmaker> :-)
21:54:03  <planetmaker> the smiley was at Ammler's reply
21:54:12  <PeterT> Ammler: I still see those awkward question marks in my diff, but I've set "encode in utf-8" in notepad++
21:54:13  <Ammler> :-D
21:54:38  <Ammler> PeterT: you might need to save again or so
21:54:43  <yorick> and when we would pay money, we'd like to have some openttd servers as well :)
21:54:53  <Ammler> PeterT: maybe needs a "dummy" change
21:55:08  <planetmaker> yorick: who's "we"?
21:55:21  <PeterT> planetmaker:
21:55:29  <yorick> planetmaker: #openttdmegaclan
21:55:37  <PeterT> Also known as: #OpenTTDMegaClan
21:55:47  * yorick will not repeat again
21:55:48  <planetmaker> what I can do imagine is indeed renting out ready-to-play servers ;-)
21:55:50  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Autopilot - Patch #750: Hungarian Translations <>
21:56:02  <planetmaker> For prices like Ammler quoted. But that doesn't include web or alike
21:56:14  <Ammler> well, mail is no issue
21:56:17  <Ammler> (google)
21:56:24  <planetmaker> just openttd and ssh there for config
21:56:47  <Ammler> and http for the saves like we have on ps
21:57:00  <planetmaker> we have that experience and can provide it nearly out-of-box
21:57:18  <yorick> mhm...we'll like web, sql, domain(with DNS openttd server if possible) and probably some more
21:57:28  <yorick> multiple(patched) openttd servers running
21:57:35  <Ammler> own IP would cost a bit +
21:57:40  <Ammler> around 10€ per month
21:57:46  <planetmaker> yes
21:57:57  <planetmaker> sql also costs
21:58:19  <Ammler> yeah, not sure about sql/php
21:58:29  <yorick> hmm yes php too :)
21:59:16  <Ammler> planetmaker: then we should move to the dedicated server and make a vps for renting :-)
21:59:35  <Ammler> splitted from DevZone
21:59:36  <planetmaker> Ammler: exactly my thinking ;-)
21:59:57  <Ammler> yorick: what is your buget for?
22:00:31  <yorick> Ammler: least possible :P
22:01:06  <Ammler> then you don't have budget
22:01:09  <planetmaker> what do you pay now?
22:01:22  <yorick> hmm...electricity costs
22:01:30  <planetmaker> he
22:01:46  <planetmaker> someone running it at home, eh?
22:01:52  <yorick> yup
22:02:06  <yorick> and some other guy running web on obscure cc/eu domain
22:02:11  <yorick> which wants us gone
22:02:31  <yorick> 20-30eur / month
22:02:45  <planetmaker> that's something where we can make a deal
22:12:35  <yorick> anything less vague?
22:15:29  <planetmaker> well... yes.
22:15:43  <Ammler> 20-20€ you can also buy your own VPS
22:15:54  <Ammler> -30€
22:16:26  <yorick> hmm...what does adsense typically bring with about 30 active users?
22:16:35  <yorick> and 3000 inactive?
22:17:20  <planetmaker> nothing
22:17:42  <yorick> ah, that's a lot
22:17:49  <planetmaker> indeed ;-)
22:18:04  * yorick shifts into gold memberships and donations
22:18:26  <yorick> hmm gold memberships are just evil
22:18:47  *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone
22:19:09  <planetmaker> yes ;-)
22:19:56  <yorick> "pay us and we will moderate 24/7"
22:20:07  <yorick> "we'll also kick everyone who bothers you and pays less"
22:20:34  <planetmaker> hehe
22:20:41  <yorick> paid servers wouldn't have much evil people
22:21:20  <planetmaker> yup. I guess that doesn't work
22:21:25  <planetmaker> too many out there
22:22:13  <yorick> basically...first priority: php+sql, second: openttd servers!
22:23:51  <planetmaker> Ok, we will discuss that among us (Ammler + myself) whether and if how we can do that.
22:24:17  <planetmaker> It comes a bit surprisingly :-) but otoh is something I though about loosely as an option
22:25:47  <Ammler> we have around 500 visitors a day and no google adsense income
22:25:58  * yorick disables adblock
22:25:59  <Ammler> I guess, we will remove the adds after the first 100er
22:26:10  <KenjiE20> adsense bites
22:26:38  * yorick clicks add
22:26:40  <yorick> ad*
22:26:45  <Ammler> yorick: don't
22:26:55  <KenjiE20> the evil google man will get us
22:27:01  <Ammler> only click on ads, if you are interested :-)
22:27:07  <yorick> the evil google man already has us
22:27:13  <yorick> but it's a mario ad!
22:27:20  <yorick> and it plays MUSIC
22:27:27  <planetmaker> :-)
22:27:29  <yorick> it goes teedeedeetudeedee
22:29:08  <yorick> Ammler: some tip is to use a background image on an ad, and if it doesn't load, show some kind of thing like "you have an adblocker...when I go on sites I like, I always disable mine"
22:30:15  <Ammler> as said, if people use add blocker, they can, don't care
22:30:32  <yorick> then why have ads?
22:30:39  <Ammler> I don't use adblocker, I prefer not visting pages with "ugly" ads
22:31:35  <yorick> has ugly ads
22:31:43  <yorick> really don't blend in nicely
22:32:09  <yorick> but they do have mario :)
22:35:22  <yorick> so far, we always managed to get free obscure hosting...but paid hosting is a bit more reliable, and I think it's about time for that
22:43:48  <Frankr> :)
22:45:26  <Ammler> well, has sponsored servers only :-)
22:45:49  <Ammler> the best server is the one with the running openttd servers (PublicServer)
22:46:25  <Ammler> DevZone is sponsored by me and pm
23:23:20  *** ODM has quit IRC
23:43:27  *** yorick has quit IRC

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk