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00:17:36 *** PeterT_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 00:18:15 *** PeterT_ has quit IRC 00:37:06 *** PeterT has quit IRC 00:37:34 *** PeterT has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 01:46:46 *** Frankr has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:15:05 *** Frankr has quit IRC 02:16:17 <PeterT> Ammler: What files should I submit to complete a hungarian translation for ap+? 02:17:27 <PeterT> I'm currently translating en.msg 02:17:43 <PeterT> /autopilot/lang/en.msg 02:24:15 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 02:26:03 <Ammler> PeterT: you know, AP+ is depreciated 02:26:17 <PeterT> No, I didn't know that 02:26:24 <PeterT> I will translate avignon also, the 02:26:26 <PeterT> *then 02:26:37 <PeterT> but the thing is, I can't find avignon's svn repo 02:26:44 <PeterT> just *.tar.gz downloads 02:26:51 <PeterT> and I want to submit a diff 02:26:56 <Ammler> codecubes.org 02:27:14 <Ammler> but why not wait for the release... 02:27:16 <PeterT> Ok, I'm there 02:27:31 <PeterT> Well, if I translate, it will be in the release? 02:27:45 <Ammler> post a diff there :-) 02:27:57 <PeterT> ah, here it is! http://svn.codecubes.org/ 02:28:14 <Ammler> yes 02:28:26 <PeterT> it is not mentioned anywhere :S 02:28:47 <Ammler> the url should tell you, it isn't a project of DevZone 02:29:00 <Ammler> so don't report here, report there :-P 02:29:21 <PeterT> right.. 02:29:26 <PeterT> I'll translate both 02:29:35 <PeterT> but first, I'm finishing ap+'s translation 02:29:42 <PeterT> I don't care if it's depricated 02:29:54 * Ammler wouldn't wonder, if the translation wouldn't work 02:30:01 <Ammler> as nobody ever used it :-) 02:30:52 <Ammler> but I had a need for it 3 years ago 02:31:01 <Ammler> as I ran a German server 02:31:21 <PeterT> Hmm 02:31:56 <PeterT> gah, openttd.tcl from avignon has the translations right in the file 02:32:00 <PeterT> not seperately 02:32:00 <Ammler> you need to run openttd and avignon/ap with same language 02:32:15 <PeterT> yeah, will do 02:32:49 *** Frankr has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:32:49 <Ammler> 2-4 for you already :-P 02:33:14 *** PeterT has quit IRC 02:35:01 *** PeterT has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:35:14 <PeterT> @logs 02:35:14 <Webster> Logs: http://hyru.ath.cx:60080/~kenji/ottdcoop/ 02:35:39 *** PeterT_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:36:46 *** PeterT has quit IRC 02:37:37 *** PeterT_ is now known as PeterT 02:37:48 <Ammler> you found finally a bnc? 02:38:05 <PeterT> yeah 02:38:11 <PeterT> what is my hostname? 02:38:15 <PeterT> provided by the kind, Jolteon 02:38:21 <Ammler> whois 02:39:09 <PeterT> nice, it's at a website instead of an IP 03:19:37 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 04:13:42 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 04:35:50 *** Frankr has quit IRC 04:47:24 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 05:04:04 *** welshdragon is now known as Guest121 05:04:12 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 05:12:11 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 05:36:14 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 06:07:11 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 06:45:56 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:00:58 <planetmaker> Rubidium, concerning OpenMSX: description = OpenMSX sound replacement set for OpenTTD. Freely available under the terms of the GPL v2 and the Creative Commons Sampling Plus 1.0 License. For full credits see "readme.txt" 09:01:15 <planetmaker> I'll contact the translators which posted something so far. 09:06:35 *** yorick has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:44:40 <planetmaker> he, moin yorick :-) 09:45:21 <Rubidium> planetmaker: added 09:45:29 <planetmaker> thanks :-) 09:46:19 <yorick> moin planetmaker 09:47:23 <yorick> any WAS people online? 09:49:16 <yorick> our hosting people are starting to complain a bit 09:52:57 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 10:11:28 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:16:28 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Autopilot - Feature #748 (New): let !playercount distinguish between players and spectators <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/748> 11:36:49 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:49:25 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Autopilot - Feature #748: let !playercount distinguish between players and spectators <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/748#change-2009> 13:18:03 *** ODM has quit IRC 13:22:56 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 0: Add: Initial import <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openmsx/repository/revisions/0> || Redmine - Revision 3315: Avoid unnecessary SQL queries when loading changesets. <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3315> || Redmine - Revision 3314: Memorize commit authors to speed up changesets loading. <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3314> || Redmine - Revision 3313: Adds a missing index (speeds up changesets loading). <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3313> 13:25:57 <planetmaker> !cf openmsx 13:27:29 <Ammler> he :-) 13:27:46 <Ammler> python? 13:30:29 <Ammler> do we really support non-gpl? 13:30:52 <Ammler> I thought, opensfx was a exception because of the need 13:59:04 <planetmaker> I chose a dual-license for the simple reason I don't want this project to fail, if there's going to be much content which is only under the creative sampling license 13:59:14 <planetmaker> So currently this is both. 13:59:29 <planetmaker> And yes, nice python scripts there :-P 14:00:01 <Ammler> well, who do I need speak to to change the license? 14:00:13 <planetmaker> None 14:00:21 <planetmaker> You can chose. gpl v2 or sampling 14:00:31 <planetmaker> or both 14:00:38 <Ammler> no, I mean, which author doesn't like to use gpl? 14:00:49 <planetmaker> All three are fine with GPL 14:01:18 <planetmaker> I chose to have the option of the sampling license to _possibly_ include other midis where I don't have that option 14:01:44 <planetmaker> E.g. if there's a big midi source out there where I could just rip-off one complete music theme - but which allows it only under the sampling license 14:01:48 <Ammler> well, but why do you need to define that alreaddy? 14:01:57 <Ammler> you could have changed it if needed... 14:02:06 <planetmaker> If I asked the current authors now, I don't have to go and have a license discussion later 14:02:20 <planetmaker> And later the current contributors might not be available anymore 14:02:37 <planetmaker> I did that exactly for the reason: no license discussions. Whatever there will be. 14:02:50 <planetmaker> This way I can chose. 14:05:00 <planetmaker> Sure enough, when I see that I can chose GPL without lengthening the time till a full first version is done, then I'll drop the sampling license. 14:05:13 <planetmaker> Kinda silently branch ;-) 14:05:51 <Ammler> yeah, I would have liked the other way more, that's all :-) 14:06:09 <Ammler> if you see no chance to make a GPL release, add the cc 14:06:41 <Ammler> but it is fine. 14:06:56 <Ammler> just wondered, you made it that way. 14:07:21 <planetmaker> well. If I have to ask later, I have that nasty license discussion at hand which we all know ;-) 14:07:35 <planetmaker> Possibly then dropping other parts 14:09:23 <planetmaker> let's say: I'm not really happy with it, but having seen how OpenSFX went, I wanted to take the cautious side 14:09:49 <Ammler> opensfx is completely something else 14:09:58 <Ammler> as that uses existing samples 14:10:17 <planetmaker> yes. And I *think* this might be partially done here, too 14:10:34 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:10:36 <planetmaker> I just didn't search much. But there are some postings in the thread which suggest that there are existing sources of midi files 14:10:47 <planetmaker> licensed exactly under that: the sampling license 14:12:45 <planetmaker> concerning python: I thought this might be a nice easy place to start with it ;-) 14:12:47 <planetmaker> And it was 14:13:02 <planetmaker> first python scripts by me ever ;-) 14:13:11 <yorick> ooh, python :) 14:13:28 <yorick> but did you know it has builtin md5? 14:13:36 <planetmaker> no :-P 14:13:52 <yorick> python kinda has builtin everything 14:14:02 <yorick> http://docs.python.org/library/hashlib.html 14:14:09 <planetmaker> he, thanks 14:14:25 <planetmaker> the problem is to find it ;-) 14:16:18 <yorick> also: string.split(thing) -> thing.split() 14:16:24 <yorick> same with strip 14:16:31 <yorick> and find 14:19:48 <planetmaker> well... there I prefer the way I wrote it. It makes it clear that it's a function call 14:20:30 <yorick> don't like OOP? :P 14:21:15 <yorick> and also.... sys.stdout.write(res+"\n") -> print res 14:22:46 <planetmaker> I took it straight from the manual. I won't change that 14:23:27 <planetmaker> At least not till I understood the differences ;-) 14:23:50 <yorick> print = sys.stdout.write(x + "\n") 14:23:52 <yorick> but shorter 14:24:29 <planetmaker> hm, well. Then I wonder why they don't use it in the manual that way, but in other places 14:24:48 <Ammler> oh planetmaker, you made the python scripts? 14:24:55 <Ammler> grat :-) 14:24:59 <yorick> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0214/ 14:25:00 <Webster> Title: PEP 214 -- Extended Print Statement (at www.python.org) 14:25:30 <planetmaker> Ammler, who else? 14:25:50 <planetmaker> but thanks :-) 14:25:54 <Ammler> I thought, you get help from someone :-) 14:26:47 * yorick goes and improves scripts 14:27:39 <yorick> hmm scons would be nice when you're doing python 14:28:23 <planetmaker> nah, that's what I spent quite some time on, yesterday, Ammler :-) 14:28:53 <planetmaker> I still haven't discounted to let gcc go and replace quite a bit of the stuff and defines by python 14:29:12 <planetmaker> would make for better template-ification, allow loops and more easily lists 14:29:36 <yorick> Ammler: you have public checkouts, right? 14:29:48 <planetmaker> yorick, anyone has 14:30:07 <Ammler> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/hg 14:30:13 <yorick> thanks :) 14:30:24 <planetmaker> what are scons 14:30:25 <planetmaker> ? 14:30:34 <yorick> scons is like make, but in python 14:30:46 <planetmaker> well, that won't happen :-) 14:31:10 <planetmaker> a project needs a makefile :-) 14:31:14 <yorick> with nice automatic dependencies and such 14:31:27 <Ammler> yorick: you mean "python setup.py build" 14:31:30 <yorick> you'll just tell the makefile to call scons 14:31:30 <Ammler> and install 14:31:35 <yorick> Ammler: no, I mean scons build 14:31:53 <Ammler> never saw such python projects 14:31:54 <yorick> http://www.scons.org 14:31:55 <Webster> Title: SCons: A software construction tool (at www.scons.org) 14:31:58 <yorick> google uses it 14:32:06 <yorick> setup.py is distutils 14:34:51 <yorick> hmm this makefile of yours is slow 14:35:46 <Ammler> yorick: planetmaker, I have a python tool idea, a small one 14:36:31 <Ammler> something to build authorized_keys 14:38:30 * yorick goes fixing the makefile 14:38:45 <planetmaker> ... whatever 14:46:10 <yorick> when I press ctrl-C, it gives a mercurial traceback 14:54:23 <yorick> http://pastebin.com/d7da09916 14:54:25 <planetmaker> yes, and? 14:54:39 <planetmaker> stopping a python script always gives some kind of traceback... 14:55:19 <yorick> how does make clean take 30 seconds 14:57:29 <planetmaker> it goes through all those initial assignments nontheless 14:57:44 <planetmaker> but I don't think it's a bit problem 14:58:07 <yorick> those initial assignments aren't supposed to take >20 seconds, are they 15:06:36 <planetmaker> obviously they do. The makefiles are never faster. At least mine 15:06:46 <planetmaker> And I don't do few 15:06:55 <planetmaker> And they're all only expanded upon use 15:07:08 <yorick> that'd be yours then 15:07:08 <planetmaker> I didn't try wether := instead of = would be faster 15:07:27 <yorick> real 0m0.101s 15:07:33 <planetmaker> but then: I cannot use that everywhere. This way I don't have to think ;-) 15:08:08 <yorick> my makefiles are at least 300 times faster than yours :/ 15:08:28 <planetmaker> congratulations. My makefiles are used on all but thre grfs here. 15:09:06 <yorick> heh...heh :/ 15:09:14 <planetmaker> and it's hardly the case that you can compare two different makefiles of different projects and deduce something from the runtime 15:09:49 <yorick> true 15:10:00 <planetmaker> and especially a dependency check & generation is bound to take time 15:10:30 <yorick> dependencies aren't checked/generated with clean 15:10:36 <planetmaker> you err 15:10:48 <planetmaker> they are always checked 15:11:05 <yorick> shouldn't* 15:11:32 <planetmaker> needn't 15:11:48 <planetmaker> but shouldn't... there's nothing wrong with it. 15:12:23 <planetmaker> besides... I did maintain mine while you left your WAS people 15:14:25 <planetmaker> so... dropping in, after month, constating that everything is wrong while having done nothing whatsoever feels a bit sour. 15:17:23 <yorick> my "ur doin it rong" was ment to help, not as an insult :| 15:31:18 <Ammler> yorick: maybe you can submit a patch? 15:32:59 <yorick> I'm trying to find out what makes it so slow, currently 15:44:30 <yorick> ok...DIR_NAME is taking 20s 15:52:37 <yorick> planetmaker, Ammler: submitted patch 15:56:10 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Patch #749 (New): Makefile slow <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/749> || #openttdcoop Avignon Plugin - Revision 17: -Update: Added cmds 'trains' and 'tunnels' <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/avignon-plugin/repository/revisions/17> || Avignon - Revision 571: -Fix: Alias plugin missed a check <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/avignon/repository/revisions/571> 16:06:51 <planetmaker> what's the approx. speed gain, yorick ? 16:07:17 <Ammler> 20 secs :-) 16:07:33 <yorick> real0m1.265s 16:07:38 <Ammler> unbelieveable 16:08:34 <Ammler> just because you change "=" to ":=" 16:09:06 <planetmaker> hm, might be that I should change more than one makefile in that respect... 16:09:37 <Ammler> I didn't test, just from what yorick posted 16:12:26 <planetmaker> 9.2s vs 0.8s 16:12:30 <planetmaker> factor 10. amazing. 16:12:38 <planetmaker> thanks, yorick 16:12:46 <yorick> :) 16:13:23 <Ammler> and why is that? 16:13:50 <planetmaker> direct assignment vs. assignement when used. Does that explain "why"? Not really for me, but... 16:14:04 <Ammler> :-) 16:14:06 <yorick> planetmaker: if you have some recursion... 16:14:41 <planetmaker> sure. But there's not much. Or should not be. Only a bit a = b c = a + d e = c + f 16:15:27 <yorick> planetmaker: tar_filename ->dir_name->version_string 16:16:05 <planetmaker> yes. Doesn't see much to me. Obviously it is, though 16:16:49 <yorick> dir_name is used 21 times 16:18:42 <Ammler> so if you use =, it does calcualate it 21 times, if you use := it does the same once, only? 16:18:48 <yorick> yes 16:19:30 <yorick> it does $(shell hg parent --template="{tags}" | grep -v "tip" | cut -d\ -f1) 21 times 16:20:08 <Ammler> hg id might be better there anyway... 16:20:11 <yorick> and also many other things 16:24:05 <Ammler> he, my first package in official suse repos :-P 16:24:17 <Ammler> well, a update of it ;-) 16:37:07 <planetmaker> congrats. I just saw the e-mail, Ammler :-) 16:37:24 <Ammler> email? 16:37:47 <Ammler> hmm, isn't the address ammler@openttdcoop.org :-) 16:37:55 <planetmaker> novell@openttdcoop.org 16:38:09 <planetmaker> which I obviously happen to receive, too ;-) 16:38:19 <planetmaker> I don't mind 16:38:35 <planetmaker> :-P 16:38:58 <planetmaker> from 14:28h the e-mail 16:40:03 <planetmaker> now the real time is 0.37s. That's quite a gain :-) 16:40:06 <planetmaker> 20 ... 30 times 16:40:08 <planetmaker> commited 16:40:14 <Ammler> ah, that is the account email 16:40:21 <Ammler> but the changelog is with my address 16:40:27 <planetmaker> :-) 16:40:55 <Ammler> not many mails to novell@ I guess 16:41:10 <Ammler> so I leave it, if it spams you, just make it an alias of Ammler 16:42:12 <Ammler> the update fixed a very important utf-8 issue 16:42:23 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Patch #749 (Closed): Makefile slow <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/749#change-2010" target="_blank">http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/749#change-2010> || OpenMSX - Revision 1: Codechange: Speedup Makefile by a factor of 10 (based on patch by yorick, c... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openmsx/repository/revisions/1> || OpenMSX - Patch #749 (Closed): Makefile slow <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/749> 16:44:23 <SmatZ> The makefile currently takes over 20 seconds to clean, build, or anything else. 16:44:29 <SmatZ> does it mean it takes 2 seconds now? 16:45:08 <Ammler> openttd makefile already uses := 16:45:35 <SmatZ> at least at places where it matters :) 16:45:37 <SmatZ> I hope 16:45:55 <Ammler> [17:12] <planetmaker> 9.2s vs 0.8s 16:46:19 <Ammler> SmatZ: so you knew about but didn't tell us? 16:46:27 <Ammler> :-P 16:46:41 <SmatZ> I didn't know it matters :) 16:46:48 <SmatZ> I am not as guru as yorick :D 16:47:14 <Ammler> yeah, he is genius 16:47:36 <SmatZ> yeah 16:48:03 <planetmaker> actually 9.2s vs. 0.4 :-P 16:48:19 <planetmaker> I added two other places which helped, also. 16:48:36 <SmatZ> planetmaker is genius as well :) 16:48:41 <planetmaker> lol 16:49:05 <Ammler> all here are, except me and XeryusTC 16:49:12 <SmatZ> :D 16:49:18 <planetmaker> you're the Uber-Geniuses. 16:49:25 <XeryusTC> i am? 16:49:33 <XeryusTC> i always thought i was just a fiddler :P 16:49:34 <Ammler> XeryusTC: EXCEPT 16:49:43 <SmatZ> hehehe 16:49:51 <planetmaker> hahaha :-) 16:49:55 <XeryusTC> Ammler: was responding to planetmaker ;) 16:49:58 <Ammler> no, you are :-P 16:52:26 <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/modernstationset/repository/entry/Makefile <-- misses := also 16:52:39 <Ammler> and a "bundle_zip" 16:56:57 <planetmaker> it misses the generic makefile :-P 16:57:28 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 588: Change: Speedup the Makefile by a factor of 4 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/588> 16:57:37 <Ammler> yeah, but I am happy enough if it is possible to run "make bundle_zip" 16:57:47 * planetmaker , too 17:00:10 <planetmaker> so... firs and 2cctrainset are fast now. OpenGFX next, I guess :-) 17:04:00 <Ammler> :-) 17:04:50 <Ammler> you should have a ./updatebuildsys.sh in the repos :-P 17:05:04 <planetmaker> well... yes. 17:05:24 <planetmaker> But it turned out that there are always subtle differences in the Makefiles... 17:05:52 <planetmaker> ... each grf is *slightly* different. Makes a universal patch for all those projects kinda difficult 17:06:10 <planetmaker> Well... Maybe I should make a move to unify it again :-) 17:06:22 <planetmaker> And simplify 17:06:25 <planetmaker> At the same time 17:06:39 <planetmaker> No nasty options for users other than names. 17:08:20 <Ammler> or change to setup.py :-P 17:08:30 <planetmaker> :-P 17:08:39 <Ammler> or what our guru suggested 17:09:03 <planetmaker> That's more work than it's worth. Right now at least. 17:09:41 <planetmaker> what I *do* want is some python-ification instead of the gcc #define mania 17:10:20 <planetmaker> but that's a low priority very-long-term (if at all) kind of project 17:10:59 <Ammler> well, but scons might be worth a look at... 17:11:32 <Ammler> since python is quite a common installation everywhere 17:11:47 <Ammler> at least on linux and on windows with mercurial 17:13:45 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Revision 301: Change: Speedup make by a factor of two <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/301> || 2cc train set - Revision 448: Change: Speedup the Makefile by a factor of 5 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/448> 17:14:20 <Ammler> why has opengfx only 2? 17:20:10 <planetmaker> the grfcodec compile time is MUCH longer 17:20:18 <planetmaker> 50s vs. 23s 17:29:49 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 214: Change: Speedup make by a factor of four <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/214> 17:30:37 <Rubidium> be aware of the subtle differences between := and = 17:34:02 <Rubidium> just a random question: how do I override the nforenum I'd like to use for OpenGFX, e.g. use nforenum instead of renum? 17:34:47 <Rubidium> cause cp Makefile.local.sample Makefile.local and then changing the renum line doesn't do the trick 17:35:29 <Rubidium> there are stray tabs in Makefile.config (of OpenGFX) too 17:35:46 <Rubidium> stray as in: used for aligning where the rest of the items use spaces 17:40:51 <planetmaker> yes... do they hurt? 17:41:19 <planetmaker> (besides that you're right, that consistency is better) 17:41:49 <planetmaker> As I understood it := is assignement where this line is 17:41:56 <planetmaker> with = it is only evaluated when used. 17:42:12 <planetmaker> which might make a difference, if vars change during runtime. 17:52:04 *** Frankr has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:03:00 <DJNekkid> planetmaker: how do i add a "r27" (ish) to the nutracks? 18:19:00 <Ammler> XeryusTC: [19:08] <Priski> I didn't like OGFX at first but now I like it, it has more 'cleaner' look 18:19:18 <XeryusTC> so? 18:19:23 <Ammler> isn't that the reason you play original? 18:19:27 <Ammler> prefer* 18:19:46 <Ammler> just nice, how people use same reason for both :-D 18:20:31 <planetmaker> DJNekkid, you mean in the filename or in the ingame name of the grf? 18:21:58 <XeryusTC> Ammler: no it isn't, i dont like the inconsistency and the darkness of OGFX 18:22:10 <XeryusTC> also, this discussion is pointless and basicly the same as TTDP vs OTTD 18:22:37 <Ammler> XeryusTC: wasn't meant for discussion, just a funny note... 18:22:53 <XeryusTC> you are always starting a discussion about it 18:22:55 <Ammler> I don't really care 18:22:57 <planetmaker> <XeryusTC> also, this discussion is pointless and basicly the same as TTDP vs OTTD <-- very true 18:23:12 <planetmaker> though there's one 'better' set :-P 18:23:14 <XeryusTC> Ammler: why do you bring it up then every other week? 18:23:29 <Ammler> :-o 18:23:33 <Ammler> ok 18:27:06 <DJNekkid> planetmaker: in the newgrf-list ingame 18:27:20 <planetmaker> about to commit it ;-) 18:27:47 <planetmaker> actually the same way as in 2cctrainset and also the nutracks readme: {{GRF_TITLE}} 18:27:55 <planetmaker> which will be replaced by that string 18:28:50 <planetmaker> pushed 18:29:13 <DJNekkid> okidoki :) 18:29:15 <DJNekkid> thanx! :) 18:29:20 <planetmaker> no problem 18:30:32 <DJNekkid> about to create a thread for it also :) 18:30:37 <planetmaker> :-) 18:30:53 <planetmaker> btw, DJNekkid, the makefiles got faster ;-) 18:30:59 <DJNekkid> i saw that 18:31:18 <DJNekkid> not that i have complained about its fastnes after i use linux to compile it 18:32:00 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Nutracks - Revision 10: Change: Add the version to the grf's name <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nutracks/repository/revisions/10> 18:33:26 <Frankr> Dj 18:33:39 <DJNekkid> hi Frankr 18:34:21 <Frankr> some comparison costs, for you, A380 251k, A380F 281k 18:34:46 <Frankr> they will be WAS costs, if you plan changing the chimera 18:34:52 <Frankr> still 18:35:13 <Frankr> concorde ar 120k 18:35:47 <Frankr> 747's in the range of 180k - 230k 18:37:11 <DJNekkid> planetmaker: arent there any nightlies on the nutracks yet? 18:37:31 <planetmaker> uhm, I guess that wasn't activated. It needs handwork on the server 18:37:45 <DJNekkid> oki... :) 18:38:18 <DJNekkid> is it possible to add that, and make one? :P 18:38:26 <DJNekkid> im about to make a NuTracks post on the forums 18:38:29 <planetmaker> yes, I'm already on it 18:38:43 <Frankr> :) 18:38:53 <planetmaker> It will be the usual links. Just use e.g. the 2cctrainset and replace that by nutracks 18:38:56 <Frankr> you fixed the problem with it DJ 18:39:57 <DJNekkid> ehm ... 18:40:05 <DJNekkid> bundles.openttdcoop.org/nutracks? 18:40:15 <DJNekkid> i fixed what problem Frankr ? 18:40:54 <Frankr> i recall you having a problem with something yesterday i thought when you were play testing 18:41:01 <Frankr> or is it just my memory, lol 18:41:39 <DJNekkid> no real problem 18:41:41 <DJNekkid> just minor ones :) 18:41:47 <Frankr> :) 18:42:07 <planetmaker> DJNekkid, http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/download.php?file=nutracks/nightlies/compile-log/nutracks-FAILED-compile-error.log 18:42:35 <DJNekkid> failed??? 18:43:01 <DJNekkid> there is a .ptxt 18:43:04 <planetmaker> it didn't find the license file :-P 18:43:08 <planetmaker> yeah 18:43:16 <planetmaker> obviously it's missing *something* 18:43:18 <DJNekkid> i _thought_ that is what i were supposed to use? 18:43:28 <planetmaker> Let me look 18:44:59 <planetmaker> I guess it's getting really time to unify the makefiles as much as possible :S 18:46:05 <DJNekkid> what about: 18:46:09 <DJNekkid> makefile.set 18:46:16 <planetmaker> something like that 18:46:21 <planetmaker> or Makefile.common 18:46:23 <DJNekkid> that is included from the "main" makefile 18:46:28 <DJNekkid> or that 18:46:28 <planetmaker> yes, like that 18:46:39 <DJNekkid> and the main makefile is the same no matter what set it is in 18:46:59 <planetmaker> well. The problem are obviously these kind of differences. 18:47:23 <planetmaker> The Makefile you copied doesn't want ptxt, but the txt straight away. Not every newgrf uses that. etc 18:47:31 <planetmaker> But they might as well do so. 18:47:37 <planetmaker> I shall go through them all. 18:47:45 <DJNekkid> i took the 2cc sets file... 18:48:31 <planetmaker> he, yes, it doesn't use it. Probably as only one :S 18:49:06 <DJNekkid> atleast, i think it was the 2cc files... 18:49:14 <planetmaker> yes, it looks the same. 18:50:39 <planetmaker> ah. You mis-spelled license ;-) 18:50:48 <Frankr> :) 18:50:59 <DJNekkid> probably my dyslecsia :) 18:51:15 <Frankr> :p 18:57:42 <planetmaker> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nutracks/nightlies/ <-- DJNekkid 18:59:06 <DJNekkid> goodie! 19:00:16 <planetmaker> I'll make another push 19:02:04 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Nutracks - Revision 11: Fix: License instead of licence and add a rule to generate txt files from... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nutracks/repository/revisions/11> 19:17:06 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Nutracks - Revision 12: Change: Speed up make a bit <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nutracks/repository/revisions/12> 19:24:22 <DJNekkid> planetmaker: should i make a wiki-page somewhere regarding the nutracks? 19:32:38 <planetmaker> DJNekkid, seems sensible 19:34:34 <planetmaker> you can use whichever wiki you like, I guess. 19:34:54 <planetmaker> At devzone, the openttdcoop, the openttd wiki or request from orudge a separate page ;-) 19:40:54 <DJNekkid> i dont really need a separate page do i? :) 19:41:01 <DJNekkid> i can just add it to my own server if i need so :) 19:42:40 <planetmaker> well... if that is and remains available 24/7/365 19:42:51 <planetmaker> tt-forums is a good address ;-) 19:44:28 <DJNekkid> it sure is.... 19:44:56 <DJNekkid> it is available 24/7/365 19:45:09 <DJNekkid> and will be unless someone hacks my box :) 20:13:03 <DJNekkid> planetmaker: didnt you say that building a km (or whatever length-value) of maglev cost about the same as ICE3-tracks? 20:13:34 <planetmaker> yes. de.wikipedia tells so 20:16:28 <DJNekkid> oki :) 20:19:55 <planetmaker> DJNekkid, de.wikipedia is not the Dutch wiki ;-) 20:20:26 <planetmaker> that'd be nl.wikipedia :-P 20:25:53 <DJNekkid> ehm 20:25:54 <DJNekkid> ofcourse! 20:26:08 <DJNekkid> i were thinking of the german word for ... german :) 20:27:01 <DJNekkid> and that is _somewhat_ similar to dutch 20:27:15 <DJNekkid> atleast, it start with D and got a tch'sound 20:29:11 <yorick> and it's in fact the same word :) 20:29:18 <yorick> but one more englified 20:30:27 <DJNekkid> well, i speak neither, but i pick up some words here and there... 20:30:38 <DJNekkid> ich sprechen nicht deutch (or something) 20:30:51 <yorick> ich auch nicht 20:30:52 <DJNekkid> and ... je ne parle pas francoise 20:31:09 <Ammler> français 20:31:19 <yorick> me neither :) 20:31:27 <Ammler> moi aussi 20:31:29 <DJNekkid> i dont have that fancy C on my keyboard 20:31:32 <planetmaker> moi aussi 20:32:06 <Ammler> DJNekkid: swiss keyboard needs both, Umlauts of German and French 20:32:21 <DJNekkid> aye :) 20:32:24 <Ammler> no idea, why 20:32:41 <Ammler> as there is a german-swiss and french-swiss layout 20:32:54 <DJNekkid> you are in a language scitzo country 20:33:15 <Ammler> indeed double scitzo 20:33:34 <DJNekkid> french, german and italian, right? 20:33:47 <planetmaker> you forgot rätoromanisch 20:33:51 <Ammler> and a kind of latin 20:34:10 <DJNekkid> well, we have 3 languages in norway also... 20:34:15 <DJNekkid> but two of them are VERY similar 20:34:20 <DJNekkid> and the 3rd one is pakistani :P 20:34:22 <yorick> we only have frisians 20:34:22 <DJNekkid> no wait .. 20:34:24 <DJNekkid> thats sami :) 20:34:29 <yorick> and those are strange 20:35:21 <DJNekkid> but norwegian and new norwegian are quite similar... 20:36:01 <DJNekkid> new norwegian is actually more a collection of dialect words 20:37:04 <Ammler> Wikinasian 20:39:06 <yorick> hmm...either 1.there's something wrong with the structs, 2.there's something wrong with the endianness and really the temperature is constantly changing while the decimals remain the same 3.there's something wrong with the IEEE-754 Floating-Point conversion or 4.My chip is really 53.622 degrees 20:39:50 <yorick> or there's something wrong with the registers :) 20:40:06 <planetmaker> what's wrong about 53 degrees in a cpu? 20:40:48 <planetmaker> besides 91.4590387385 of all statistics claim a greater accuracy than appropriate. 20:40:54 <planetmaker> % 20:41:12 <yorick> it's 53 degrees in some embedded chip 20:41:23 <planetmaker> yes, and? 20:41:27 <yorick> and they said I should expect something in the order of 30 20:41:46 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:42:06 <Rubidium> planetmaker, but ... my vote statistics are 100% accurate! 20:42:11 <yorick> planetmaker: 42.7% of the statistics are made up 20:42:36 <planetmaker> hehe @ Rubidium :-) 20:42:58 <DJNekkid> statistics is made to be misused 20:43:46 * planetmaker currently works with 30 "representitive" particles out of ~3k 20:43:54 <yorick> ok...either it's option 4 or the error is celsius-farenheit-conversion proof 20:46:12 <DJNekkid> what is the f-c conversion again? c = (f-32)/1,8 ? 20:46:17 <DJNekkid> no 20:46:28 <DJNekkid> f/1,8)-32 20:46:37 <DJNekkid> 0c is -32f 20:58:06 <Ammler> no interesting finals :-) 20:58:21 <DJNekkid> ski sprint! 20:58:28 <Ammler> yeah 20:58:52 <Ammler> swe will win 20:59:03 <DJNekkid> no she wont :D 20:59:31 <Ammler> hehe 20:59:59 <DJNekkid> but yea, probably :( 21:00:10 <Ammler> :-D 21:00:12 <yorick> it'd be fun if they crash 21:00:45 <Ammler> why didn't we have a 2nd good sprinter 21:01:05 <DJNekkid> but you know, the swizz guys were 0.4sec from the final 21:01:12 <Ammler> yeah 21:01:23 <Ammler> well, they might not have been started anyway 21:02:38 <Ammler> that diszipline is for Swiss like alpine for Norway... 21:02:43 <Ammler> or worse 21:02:52 <Ammler> only one single good man 21:03:43 <DJNekkid> yea... :) 21:04:05 <DJNekkid> we used to have 2 or 3 ... 21:04:17 <DJNekkid> lasse kjus and kjetil Aamodt... 21:04:26 <DJNekkid> in the more speedy ones, plus combi 21:04:44 <DJNekkid> and there have usually been one slalom specialist 21:05:15 <DJNekkid> Ole Furuseth, Finn Jagge and lately Hans Burås 21:05:49 <DJNekkid> late 80s and early 90's, the 90's, and late 90's and 2000's 21:06:21 <Ammler> well on that time, we were top on alpine 21:06:32 <DJNekkid> yup...' 21:06:39 <Ammler> but long ago :-( 21:06:53 <DJNekkid> were usually norway vs swizz, with some occational austrian 21:06:55 <Ammler> but it might come back a bit now. 21:07:11 <DJNekkid> now its more like austria vs austria, with occational norwegian and swizz dude 21:07:30 <Ammler> well, austrian is kinda without any competitors 21:07:57 <Ammler> but they are worst in the olympics :-) 21:08:14 <DJNekkid> lucky for us occationals :) 21:08:19 <Ammler> :-D 21:08:38 <Ammler> I guess, USA is the best 21:09:24 <Ammler> but the habbitants there don't care :'-( 21:10:17 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 449: Add: NS6300 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/449> 21:10:49 * PeterT goes to open a patch issue at dev.openttdcoop.org 21:11:53 <DJNekkid> but USA have (well, not entierly) aprox the same population as europe 21:12:01 <DJNekkid> and europe has MANY more medals! :) 21:12:52 <DJNekkid> well, europe have about 2xthe population of USA... 21:13:24 <Ammler> that doesn't count ;-) 21:13:40 <Ammler> we aren't in the EU :-P 21:13:47 <DJNekkid> we either 21:13:48 <DJNekkid> :D 21:13:59 <Ammler> yeah, we was meant for us :-) 21:15:12 <DJNekkid> and you guys dont have MUCH more people then norway 21:15:37 * PeterT goes to open a patch issue at dev.openttdcoop.org 21:15:48 <PeterT> Ammler: what files do I need to upload with translation? 21:15:56 <DJNekkid> alittle less then 5mill here, and a fair bit less then 8 on you 21:16:08 <Ammler> we have more than norway? 21:16:15 <Ammler> why are we worse then? 21:17:23 <Ammler> PeterT: I told you, no idea, check wiki or codecubes.org 21:17:37 <PeterT> Ammler: this. is. ap+!!!! 21:17:46 <DJNekkid> go germany! 21:18:19 <DJNekkid> not that you care planetmaker, but congratulations :) 21:18:22 <Ammler> you prefer Germany above Sweden? 21:18:26 <DJNekkid> by far! 21:18:29 <Ammler> :-D 21:18:33 <Ammler> bad neighbour 21:18:36 <yorick> I prefer sweden above germany 21:18:40 <yorick> nothing personal :P 21:18:43 <DJNekkid> hehe 21:18:48 <planetmaker> bad neighbour ;-) 21:19:03 <DJNekkid> Swden is to Norway, as Liverpool is to Manchester :) 21:19:13 <Ammler> Germany has enough Gold 21:19:41 <DJNekkid> sure, but sweden should not have any ... at all! 21:19:44 <DJNekkid> :D 21:20:13 <planetmaker> Ammler: nevvaar! 21:20:13 <Ammler> yeah, it is like we feel about Austria in alpine ;-) 21:20:35 <DJNekkid> indeed 21:25:47 <DJNekkid> lol 21:26:13 <DJNekkid> the norwegian curling team pants have more then 300k fans on facebook 21:26:56 <Ammler> if they will play again against us, they lose 21:27:44 <Ammler> most likely in the semi final 21:29:35 <DJNekkid> well... now Øystein "the sausage" Pettersen is running in the sprint finale ... 21:29:36 <DJNekkid> ttyl :) 21:29:49 <Ammler> no sweden there 21:40:41 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Autopilot - Patch #750 (New): Hungarian Translations <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/750> 21:42:15 <Ammler> PeterT: sure, you used right codepage? 21:42:24 <PeterT> Yes? 21:42:42 <PeterT> its autopilot 21:43:47 <planetmaker> code page as in utf-8 / ... 21:44:06 <PeterT> I don't know 21:44:20 <PeterT> I'm not sure how :Z 21:44:29 <planetmaker> it looks funny... 21:44:51 <Ammler> it looks like you used acient iso-8859 (latin) 21:46:05 <PeterT> Do I need to re-translate it, or just save in utf-8? 21:46:18 <Ammler> PeterT: where does that hungarian server run? 21:46:40 <PeterT> What hungarian server? 21:47:17 <Ammler> yeah, why else did you translate? 21:47:41 <PeterT> ... 21:47:53 <planetmaker> http://img.ammler.ch/images/bildscqnq.png <-- that's what it looks for me 21:48:20 <Ammler> planetmaker: change it to iso8859 21:48:23 <DJNekkid> jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! 21:48:25 <PeterT> same it for me 21:48:29 <Ammler> grat DJNekkid 21:48:32 <PeterT> * same for me 21:48:38 <PeterT> I will make a new utf-8 diff 21:49:06 <Ammler> well, I leave it to osai to add it :-) 21:50:21 <Ammler> mäh, I guess, I go to bed, no special event this night 21:50:28 <Ammler> need to sleep a bit. 21:50:43 <yorick> Ammler: what do dedicated servers cost? 21:50:48 <yorick> with nice openttd on it? 21:50:57 <Ammler> you like to buy one? 21:50:59 <PeterT> Fixed 21:51:07 * PeterT waits for Webster to update 21:51:09 <yorick> hmm...more like rent 21:51:15 <Ammler> we sell openttd dedicated servers for 5€/month ;-) 21:51:24 <PeterT> Wow, quite cheap 21:51:34 <yorick> Ammler: nice webhosting on it too? 21:51:36 <yorick> domain? 21:51:38 <yorick> email? 21:51:38 <yorick> :P 21:51:46 <Ammler> yes not problem 21:52:10 <Ammler> but mail only 50 account with around 10gig per account 21:52:19 <yorick> and ofcourse forum :P 21:53:15 <Ammler> if you seriously like to buy one, ask planetmaker, the sales manager 21:53:44 <yorick> we are looking into alternatives because our current hosters would like to have us gone 21:53:47 <planetmaker> :-) 21:54:03 <planetmaker> the smiley was at Ammler's reply 21:54:12 <PeterT> Ammler: I still see those awkward question marks in my diff, but I've set "encode in utf-8" in notepad++ 21:54:13 <Ammler> :-D 21:54:38 <Ammler> PeterT: you might need to save again or so 21:54:43 <yorick> and when we would pay money, we'd like to have some openttd servers as well :) 21:54:53 <Ammler> PeterT: maybe needs a "dummy" change 21:55:08 <planetmaker> yorick: who's "we"? 21:55:21 <PeterT> planetmaker: clanmega.warlink.eu 21:55:29 <yorick> planetmaker: #openttdmegaclan 21:55:37 <PeterT> Also known as: #OpenTTDMegaClan 21:55:47 * yorick will not repeat again 21:55:48 <planetmaker> what I can do imagine is indeed renting out ready-to-play servers ;-) 21:55:50 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Autopilot - Patch #750: Hungarian Translations <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/750#change-2011> 21:56:02 <planetmaker> For prices like Ammler quoted. But that doesn't include web or alike 21:56:14 <Ammler> well, mail is no issue 21:56:17 <Ammler> (google) 21:56:24 <planetmaker> just openttd and ssh there for config 21:56:47 <Ammler> and http for the saves like we have on ps 21:57:00 <planetmaker> we have that experience and can provide it nearly out-of-box 21:57:18 <yorick> mhm...we'll like web, sql, domain(with DNS openttd server if possible) and probably some more 21:57:28 <yorick> multiple(patched) openttd servers running 21:57:35 <Ammler> own IP would cost a bit + 21:57:40 <Ammler> around 10€ per month 21:57:46 <planetmaker> yes 21:57:57 <planetmaker> sql also costs 21:58:19 <Ammler> yeah, not sure about sql/php 21:58:29 <yorick> hmm yes php too :) 21:59:16 <Ammler> planetmaker: then we should move to the dedicated server and make a vps for renting :-) 21:59:35 <Ammler> splitted from DevZone 21:59:36 <planetmaker> Ammler: exactly my thinking ;-) 21:59:57 <Ammler> yorick: what is your buget for? 22:00:31 <yorick> Ammler: least possible :P 22:01:06 <Ammler> then you don't have budget 22:01:09 <planetmaker> what do you pay now? 22:01:22 <yorick> hmm...electricity costs 22:01:30 <planetmaker> he 22:01:46 <planetmaker> someone running it at home, eh? 22:01:52 <yorick> yup 22:02:06 <yorick> and some other guy running web on obscure cc/eu domain 22:02:11 <yorick> which wants us gone 22:02:31 <yorick> 20-30eur / month 22:02:45 <planetmaker> that's something where we can make a deal 22:12:35 <yorick> anything less vague? 22:15:29 <planetmaker> well... yes. 22:15:43 <Ammler> 20-20€ you can also buy your own VPS 22:15:54 <Ammler> -30€ 22:16:26 <yorick> hmm...what does adsense typically bring with about 30 active users? 22:16:35 <yorick> and 3000 inactive? 22:17:20 <planetmaker> nothing 22:17:42 <yorick> ah, that's a lot 22:17:49 <planetmaker> indeed ;-) 22:18:04 * yorick shifts into gold memberships and donations 22:18:26 <yorick> hmm gold memberships are just evil 22:18:47 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 22:19:09 <planetmaker> yes ;-) 22:19:56 <yorick> "pay us and we will moderate 24/7" 22:20:07 <yorick> "we'll also kick everyone who bothers you and pays less" 22:20:34 <planetmaker> hehe 22:20:41 <yorick> paid servers wouldn't have much evil people 22:21:20 <planetmaker> yup. I guess that doesn't work 22:21:25 <planetmaker> too many out there 22:22:13 <yorick> basically...first priority: php+sql, second: openttd servers! 22:23:51 <planetmaker> Ok, we will discuss that among us (Ammler + myself) whether and if how we can do that. 22:24:17 <planetmaker> It comes a bit surprisingly :-) but otoh is something I though about loosely as an option 22:25:47 <Ammler> we have around 500 visitors a day and no google adsense income 22:25:58 * yorick disables adblock 22:25:59 <Ammler> I guess, we will remove the adds after the first 100er 22:26:10 <KenjiE20> adsense bites 22:26:38 * yorick clicks add 22:26:40 <yorick> ad* 22:26:45 <Ammler> yorick: don't 22:26:55 <KenjiE20> the evil google man will get us 22:27:01 <Ammler> only click on ads, if you are interested :-) 22:27:07 <yorick> the evil google man already has us 22:27:13 <yorick> but it's a mario ad! 22:27:20 <yorick> and it plays MUSIC 22:27:27 <planetmaker> :-) 22:27:29 <yorick> it goes teedeedeetudeedee 22:29:08 <yorick> Ammler: some tip is to use a background image on an ad, and if it doesn't load, show some kind of thing like "you have an adblocker...when I go on sites I like, I always disable mine" 22:30:15 <Ammler> as said, if people use add blocker, they can, don't care 22:30:32 <yorick> then why have ads? 22:30:39 <Ammler> I don't use adblocker, I prefer not visting pages with "ugly" ads 22:31:35 <yorick> openttdcoop.org has ugly ads 22:31:43 <yorick> really don't blend in nicely 22:32:09 <yorick> but they do have mario :) 22:35:22 <yorick> so far, we always managed to get free obscure hosting...but paid hosting is a bit more reliable, and I think it's about time for that 22:43:48 <Frankr> :) 22:45:26 <Ammler> well, openttdcoop.org has sponsored servers only :-) 22:45:49 <Ammler> the best server is the one with the running openttd servers (PublicServer) 22:46:25 <Ammler> DevZone is sponsored by me and pm 23:23:20 *** ODM has quit IRC 23:43:27 *** yorick has quit IRC