Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 27th February 2010:
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00:00:08  <planetmaker> yes
00:00:40  <Rubidium> pushed
00:00:40  <planetmaker> hehe :-) That's something svn has probably an advantage
00:00:53  <Rubidium> only opengfx not pushed yet
00:02:05  <Frankr> Ammler: Do the Nightlies do "makes" or "make cleans"?
00:03:46  <Ammler> rephrase...
00:05:41  <Frankr> do they just "make" the grf meaning any past files are still being used, or does it "make clean" delete and then make fresh
00:05:53  <planetmaker> pulled. Wow, a lot of languages...
00:06:06  <planetmaker> Frankr: fresh
00:06:10  <Frankr> ok ty
00:06:22  <Frankr> that is good news
00:06:33  <Frankr> nightlies are completely fixed now then
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00:10:25  <Ammler> Frankr: it does make a fresh clone for every new build
00:10:48  <Ammler> and removes the clone completely after building...
00:10:56  <Frankr> ok
00:11:22  <Frankr> Thanks, just faddy accidentally incorrectly named a few files
00:11:50  <Frankr> so the nightlies should be back working, hopefully
00:13:19  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 13: Change: Don't use capital letters in filenames. It causes trouble when Ope... <> || World Airliners Set - Revision 600: Alterations to B737-700 <> || OpenGFX - Revision 304: -Update: Bulgarian, Chinese (Traditional), Croatian, Indonesian, Norwegia... <> || OpenSFX - Revision 73: -Update: Bulgarian, Chinese (Traditional), Croatian, Indonesian, Norwegian... <>
00:21:37  <planetmaker> Rubidium: it must be another issue: and     * Your Base Music pack has an obm file which doesn't define the md5 for 'modern_motion.mid'.
00:23:07  <Ammler> XeryusTC: dbg: [grf] [ogfx-debug.grf:3] NewSpriteGroup: No sprite set to work on! Skipping
00:23:12  <Rubidium> oh, yeah... that reminds me... it doesn't strip tabs
00:23:37  <XeryusTC> Ammler: add a action 1 in front of it then :P
00:23:43  <XeryusTC> that'll probably fix it :P
00:24:10  <Ammler>
00:24:13  <Ammler> yes :-)
00:27:17  <planetmaker> hm, using no tabs in the obm file makes it look ugly
00:27:30  <Rubidium> just space align it
00:28:38  <Rubidium> with tabs it looks ugly too:
00:28:40  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 14: Update: Changelog <>
00:28:41  <Ammler> generally don't use tabs, use spaces...
00:29:29  <planetmaker> looks like a feature for > 0.1.0
00:29:34  <Ammler> :-)
00:29:56  <Rubidium> ieuw...
00:30:03  <Rubidium> looks ugly
00:30:12  <Rubidium> tabs + spaces used for alignment
00:30:22  <Rubidium> with tab size 2 it looks just plain wrong!
00:30:48  <Rubidium> oh, it holds for all python files
00:31:52  <Ammler> XeryusTC: will you paste new code or do I need to investigate self?
00:32:00  <XeryusTC> hmm
00:32:11  <Ammler>
00:33:26  <XeryusTC> the warnings seem to come from your escape :P
00:33:37  <XeryusTC> and you need an action 1:P
00:34:00  <Ammler> yes, will you show me?
00:34:12  * Ammler never did Action1/2/3 :-)
00:34:12  <Rubidium> planetmaker: solves the issue
00:34:19  <Rubidium> with the tabs I mean
00:35:00  <XeryusTC> 1 * 10  01 04 01 04
00:35:01  <planetmaker> he... :-)
00:35:03  <XeryusTC> for the action 1
00:35:13  <XeryusTC> or actually, change the last number to 01 :P
00:35:14  <planetmaker> A feature for > 0.1.0
00:35:26  <XeryusTC> and then add a bogus realsprite to a .pcx file
00:35:26  <planetmaker> thanks
00:35:41  <XeryusTC> 1 sprites/pcx/platforms.pcx   1   7 09 23 42  -9  -3
00:35:44  <XeryusTC> like that :P
00:40:00  <Ammler> but I don't need to add the real sprites of the base set?
00:40:49  <planetmaker> Rubidium: I guess I have no chance to test whether the version things work
00:41:12  <planetmaker> I'm most probable connected via a mirror to bananas - and those won't have OpenMSX so far, I assume
00:42:08  <Rubidium> planetmaker: mirrors are only used for the actual downloading
00:42:21  <Rubidium> I can see it in trunk, but also in 1.0 'head'
00:42:33  <planetmaker> hm... my r19268 doesn't show it...
00:42:47  <planetmaker> version is now 19258, so that should be expected
00:43:32  <Rubidium> planetmaker: "Musikset"
00:43:41  <planetmaker> ah, yes :-)
00:43:43  <Rubidium> i.e. inconsistent-ish translation
00:43:43  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 15: Change: Don't use tabs in the obm file. Bananas and tabs don't work <>
00:43:55  <planetmaker> It's green in my case :-P That's why I missed it
00:44:06  <planetmaker> And I expected it to be in the same place as the other base sets
00:44:53  <Rubidium> doesn't show in r19155 of 1.0
00:45:23  <planetmaker> then bananas wants the usual svn revs.
00:45:56  <planetmaker> (which is IMO a good thing)
00:45:58  <Rubidium> so the minimum version has the wanted result
00:46:05  <planetmaker> yep
00:46:17  <planetmaker> Nice :-)
00:48:04  <planetmaker> hm... strange thing.
00:48:09  <Rubidium> as I said... works in 1.0 head, although technically it shouldn't. The behaviour seems fine to me (who uses the 1.0 branch?)
00:48:51  <planetmaker> I have OpenMSX nightly (r12) in gm and nothing else and OpenMSX still gets a green bullet in the content download.
00:49:12  <planetmaker> (and OpenGFX always non-existant, even though it exists in another dir)
00:49:21  <Rubidium> version and md5 checksums are probably the same
00:50:06  <planetmaker> 15 vs. 12
00:50:22  <Rubidium> hmm, maybe it doesn't even check the version; just the shortname and md5 checksum
00:50:30  <Rubidium> cause that's all what we have for NewGRFs
00:50:43  <Rubidium> yeah... think that's it
00:51:09  <planetmaker> that doesn't explain why I always can download OpenGFX
00:51:57  <Rubidium> it only retains information about the newest version in memory; you've probably have the nightly
00:52:06  <planetmaker> yes
00:52:25  <Rubidium> and so OpenTTD 'only' sees OpenGFX the nightly when it checks whether it has it
00:52:31  <planetmaker> But with OpenSFX it doesn't happen and I have there the nightly, too
00:53:01  <Rubidium> opensfx has no changed samples since 0.2.1, so no changed md5 checksum
00:53:32  <planetmaker> ah, that explains it. :-)
00:54:07  <planetmaker> still. If I select upgrades, it's not sensible to dl OpenGFX yet another time ;-)
00:54:42  <Rubidium> true, but should we make it a thousand times more complex and possibly more buggy just to please the very few that play with opengfx nightly?
00:54:56  <planetmaker> probably not
00:55:14  <Rubidium> or should we do a disk scan to determine whether you already have it?
00:55:48  <planetmaker> you do that anyway for the content_download
00:56:03  <planetmaker> checking the usual dirs
00:57:32  <Rubidium> we check at load time and ditch 'old' stuff immediately
00:59:09  <planetmaker> it's not re-scanned when the content download window is opened?
00:59:17  <Rubidium> no
00:59:27  <planetmaker> oh he... :-)
01:00:19  <planetmaker> but... the newgrf selection window uses that method. So possibly that could be "recycled".
01:00:44  <Rubidium> scanning on opening the window?
01:01:48  <planetmaker> would possibly be slow
01:01:52  <planetmaker> I know :-)
01:02:00  <Rubidium> that's not done anywhere
01:02:16  <Rubidium> for NewGRFs we just don't ditch 'old' versions because we don't have the concept of 'old'
01:02:21  <Rubidium> for NewGRFs
01:04:38  <planetmaker> well... why not offer different versions of base sets, too?
01:04:58  <Rubidium> confusion of noobs
01:05:10  <Rubidium> noobs using 'older' versions
01:05:13  <Rubidium> etc.
01:05:17  <planetmaker> confusion when they're versioned?
01:05:38  <Rubidium> I've got 20 OpenGFXes, which one do I need?
01:06:07  <planetmaker> the 21st of course ;-)
01:06:13  <Rubidium> and some corporations have been working hard on proving that a higher number doesn't mean a newer/better version
01:06:49  <Rubidium> especially when the version is '193' or '212' or .. (i.e. the hg revision)
01:11:11  <planetmaker> well... in hg it cannot, if you have diverging branches.
01:13:00  <planetmaker> also... was it you didn't want OpenMSX available in the head of the 1.0 branch?
01:14:06  <Rubidium> nah, current head is fine although it'll only start working 'right' from the next commit to the branch
01:14:40  <planetmaker> ok, no one uses that revision anyway
01:14:44  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 17: Change: Align names and md5sums nicely again (Rubidium) <> || OpenMSX - Revision 16: Added tag 0.1.0 for changeset 83fe7ab8741c <>
01:15:10  <Rubidium> exactly
01:19:02  <planetmaker> And now I think we deserve a nice nap :-) Thanks for all the help and explanations today and have a good night :-)
01:20:09  <Ammler> planetmaker: will you publish the bundle?
01:20:25  <planetmaker> src?
01:20:45  <planetmaker> or which?
01:20:58  <Ammler> well yes.
01:22:15  <Ammler> but tomorrow is early enough :-P
01:23:15  <planetmaker> I'll attach it to the tt-forums thread, too
01:23:24  <planetmaker> and tomorrow to the devzone.
01:24:14  <planetmaker> added
01:24:31  <Ammler> why to tt-forums?
01:24:38  <Ammler> well, nvm...
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01:30:28  <planetmaker> also on bundles.openttdcoop now
01:32:37  <Ammler> :-)
01:32:41  <Ammler> thanks and good night
01:39:35  <planetmaker> good night to you, too :-) Sleep well.
01:45:47  <Ammler> he, preparing the spec
01:46:18  <Ammler> already first issue: needs hg?
02:31:46  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Bug #759 (New): Building 0.1.0 <>
02:47:49  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Bug #759: Building 0.1.0 <>
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05:28:12  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: World Airliners Set - Bug #212: Autorenew Reset Subtype to 0 <>
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07:36:28  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 589: Fix: Bauxite Mine wasn't defined as an extractive i... <>
07:52:33  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #475 (Rejected): Animal Feed Plant <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #706 (Closed): Bauxite mine not appearing in tropic <> || FISH - Bug #760 (New): Vehicle Ferry (small) truncated in \ view <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 593: Fix: Recycling Plant is arguably an extractive indu... <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 592: Fix: Mixed Farm is an organic industry, thus declar... <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 591: Fix: Dairy Farm is an organic industry, thus declar... <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 590: Fix: Sheep Farm is an organic industry, thus declar... <>
08:08:33  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #761 (New): Recycling Plant and Junk Yard code needs devi... <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #312: industry map colours <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #310 (Closed): Breweries not built on hilly / mountainous maps <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #310 (Resolved): Breweries not built on hilly / mountainous maps <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #316: Conflicting industry types <>
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08:56:40  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 18: Change: Rename 'Theme song' into 'Smooth groove' and update its music a bit <>
09:28:28  <V453000> <- my new idea for a house set :) just a taster
09:28:29  <Webster> Title: Lego Houses picture by V453000 - Photobucket (at
09:28:30  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Bug #759: Building 0.1.0 <>
09:34:08  <andythenorth> V453000: someone started a toyland replacement based on 'bricks' (don't call them Lego, it's a trademark, there lawyers are strict on this unfortunately)
09:34:24  <V453000> I see :)
09:35:06  <andythenorth>
09:35:08  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - [Big Project][32bpp] BrickLand Climate (at
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12:40:19  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 32bpp-extra - Revision 17: Codechange:speed up makefile, inspired by Yorick <>
12:40:43  <PeterT> yorick: ^
12:40:52  <yorick> I know
12:41:34  <Ammler> planetmaker: why do I get the HG warning on MSX but don't on GFX?
12:43:47  <planetmaker> Ammler: dunno? Which warning?
12:44:39  <Ammler>  /bin/sh: hg: command not found
12:44:51  <Ammler>
12:47:25  <Ammler> <-- doesn't have that warning
13:00:59  <Ammler> it fails building on old distros
13:02:34  <Ammler>
13:03:15  <Ammler> ImportError: No module named subprocess
13:03:45  <Ammler> yorick: python guru, any idea?
13:09:48  <Ammler> might have something to do with "installing python-2.3.3-88.9"
13:13:33  <Ammler> planetmaker: if you like, there is a chroot on our server with SLES_9
13:14:08  <yorick> :/
13:14:33  <Rubidium> Ammler: isn't one package more than enough? After all, it doesn't quite depend on python etc.
13:14:36  <yorick> do the distros have hg?
13:15:11  <Ammler> Rubidium: ?
13:15:54  <Ammler> you mean, why building on SLES_9 if you could use the rpm from SLE_10 ?
13:15:57  <Rubidium> Ammler: it's not that the package depends in libc version x, zlib version y, etc. that have different versions in different distros (and different versions thereof)
13:16:16  <Rubidium> Ammler: basically yes!
13:16:35  <yorick> Ammler: subprocess is new in 2.4
13:17:45  <Ammler> oh, I need to build openttd with timidity now
13:18:18  <Rubidium> timidity isn't needed at compile time
13:19:16  <Ammler> so I can add it with configure --with-timidity and do a require to the msx package?
13:21:08  <Rubidium> no need for that either
13:21:33  <Rubidium> it all goes via 'extmidi', i.e. simple call to timidity the application
13:31:54  * Rubidium wonders why hosts a catcodec hg repository (especially an outdated one)
13:36:08  <Ammler> maybe that was from the time, where I didn't know about the source package on binaries...
13:36:13  <Ammler> I delete the repo
13:37:14  <Ammler> has a lot repos
13:37:30  <Ammler> not really meant to be a place to look for something...
13:38:15  <planetmaker> Hm, no? ;-)
13:42:06  <Ammler> maybe we should remove the index?
13:42:29  <Ammler> is there a place where it is linked?
13:42:37  <Rubidium> yes
13:42:47  <planetmaker> download.php
13:42:50  <planetmaker> IIRC
13:43:02  <Ammler> download.php?
13:43:18  <Rubidium> <- okay, you have to wait a bit, but then it will be :)
13:43:51  <Ammler> he :-P
13:43:55  <Ammler> that doesn't count
13:44:07  * Ammler hates IRC logs anyway
13:44:31  <Ammler> (long time logs)
13:45:15  <yorick> Ammler: I used the index last week :P
13:45:18  <Ammler> @topic remove -2
13:45:23  <Ammler> @services op
13:45:23  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Webster
13:45:24  <Ammler> @topic remove -2
13:45:24  *** Webster changes topic to "Talk about things hosted and developed on | Downloads log:"
13:48:25  <Rubidium> Q.E.D. :)
13:48:47  <Rubidium> google knows it, so it's linked somewhere
13:50:15  <Ammler> well, if some unofficial sources link it, I wouldn't care
13:51:55  <Ammler>
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13:54:34  <planetmaker> Ammler: I have currently no idea where that hg warning in OpenMSX comes from. Can you tell?
13:55:53  <Ammler> well, it doesn't fail, I was just wondering, why the warning is there, but isn't in gfx
13:56:28  <Ammler> the warning about missing unix2dos is there for both
13:57:40  <planetmaker> yes... Make a ticket concerning unix2dos ;-)
13:58:22  <Ammler> as said, just a warning, I can life with it :-P
13:58:50  <planetmaker> :-P
13:58:54  <Ammler> better to have a warning on unix side and a working readme on windows
13:58:55  <planetmaker> yes, that's why
13:59:32  <Ammler> hmm, If I like to make a ticket about, where shall I?
13:59:50  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 32bpp-extra - Revision 18: Add: Theatre (Antonio1984/Maquinista) <>
13:59:51  <planetmaker> he... good question.
14:00:14  <planetmaker> general newgrf
14:00:55  <planetmaker> but... why do we get a warning? unix2dos is installed on the server?
14:01:30  <Ammler> planetmaker: it does create a chroot
14:01:51  <Ammler> spaking about obs (opensuse build system)
14:02:30  <Ammler> or the debian maintainer
14:02:51  <Ammler> those shouldn't convert to dos
14:03:19  <Ammler> so my proposal would be to convert only on bundle_zip
14:11:26  <Ammler> Rubidium: the issue is, that different distro versions use different rpm versions
14:11:52  <Ammler> so a RPM made with Suse Factory doesn't need be installable on Suse 9
14:12:28  <Ammler> or suse rpm doesn't need to work on CentOS
14:14:55  <Ammler> might be the same on Debian, dunno...
14:14:58  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 32bpp-extra - Bug #762 (New): Add ".directory" to you local ignore list <>
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15:48:16  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 32bpp-extra - Bug #762: Add ".directory" to you local ignore list <>
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16:15:53  <Ammler> planetmaker: <-- feel free to update :-)
16:17:24  <planetmaker> nice :-)
16:18:20  * yorick prefers shell expr
16:18:43  <yorick> glob
16:19:52  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 32bpp-extra - Bug #762: Add ".directory" to you local ignore list <>
16:24:07  <Ammler> too many * on globs :-)
16:24:45  <Ammler> we could show both, feel free to add glob rules...
16:25:20  <Ammler> just be aware that glob needs init: syntax: glob
16:25:35  <Ammler> (regex is default)
16:27:05  <Ammler> planetmaker: is the difference I do right? repo <-> system ignore?
16:28:21  <planetmaker> ?
16:28:48  <Ammler> which rules to repo .hgignore, which rules to syste hgignore
16:29:20  <Ammler> (of course, it doesn't hurt to have "system" rules in the repo
16:29:40  <planetmaker> ah, you updated it ;-)
16:29:43  <planetmaker> yes, I think so.
16:30:04  <planetmaker> everything generated by make,... : repo .hgignore
16:30:12  <Ammler> yes
16:30:14  <planetmaker> everything by editor,...: system .hgignore
16:30:26  <Ammler> by editor and os
16:30:39  <Ammler> oh, you mean that with editor :-P
16:31:15  <planetmaker> though it doesn't hurt IMO to have some of the most common editor backup / whatever files in the repo's one, too
16:31:30  <planetmaker> But generally: it's no place there. If one wants to make such rule
16:32:02  <Ammler> if you do, comment it properly ;-)
17:11:30  <planetmaker> Ammler: can you give me a shell code which tells me whether unix2dos is available?
17:12:34  <planetmaker> otherwise I'll assumefor now that it exists and have the user define it as cat, if it doesn't ;-)
17:12:52  <yorick> which unix2dos && echo "yes" || echo "no"
17:13:41  <planetmaker> true. thanks :-)
17:13:46  <planetmaker> I always forget which
17:17:05  <Ammler> just to be sure, bundle_src doesn't run unix2dos?
17:19:01  <Ammler> the only thing it does is adding Makefile.local?
17:21:11  <planetmaker> yes
17:21:36  <planetmaker> otherwise it'd be a bug ;-)
17:22:01  <planetmaker> ok, now I'll test for unix2dos and use it, if found, otherwise I'll use cat
17:22:13  <planetmaker> can be overridden by Makefile.local defining unix2dos
17:22:21  <Ammler> what about the hg warnings?
17:22:30  <planetmaker> no idea yet
17:22:31  <Ammler> (version detection)
17:22:56  <planetmaker> Everything I said is true for the new Makefile I have here ;-)
17:23:05  <planetmaker> but which is nowhere :-P
17:23:06  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 32bpp-extra - Bug #762 (Closed): Add ".directory" to you local ignore list <" target="_blank">> || 32bpp-extra - Revision 19: Fix #762:Add some useful ignores <> || 32bpp-extra - Bug #762 (Closed): Add ".directory" to you local ignore list <>
17:23:46  <planetmaker> actually bundle_src will then work better and really pack the whole repo
17:24:06  <planetmaker> thus our source will get much bigger, I think. Afaik many things have been left out so far.
17:24:20  <Ammler> he geektoo didn't get it
17:24:22  <planetmaker> only the very essential things have been in bundle_src, not the 'source' images
17:24:36  <Rubidium> just replace 'hg' with ':' or so
17:24:49  <Rubidium> in the source bundle
17:24:50  <Ammler> || :
17:24:57  <planetmaker> ah... you mean in the source bundle?
17:25:05  <planetmaker> that wasn't clear to me ;-)
17:27:02  <Ammler> planetmaker: don't pack the whole repo to src
17:27:08  <planetmaker> why not?
17:27:09  <Ammler> that is the point about it, imo
17:27:23  <Ammler> for example extra in opengfx
17:28:00  <Ammler> else we could use the tar.gz from hg
17:28:25  <planetmaker> hm
17:28:44  <Ammler> hmm, the version
17:28:46  <planetmaker> you tell me now? ;-)
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17:52:33  <planetmaker> wow. tripple presence ;-)
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18:09:18  <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: or DJNekkid: the offer for bouncer stays, just tell...
18:09:39  <DJ_Nekkid> yea... i know, but _usually_ i dont need such
18:09:54  <DJ_Nekkid> we just had a powersurge yesterday, and the modem did get a reset at home
18:10:14  <DJ_Nekkid> and because its kinda crappy, some of its settings isnt saved
18:10:21  <DJ_Nekkid> among them, port forwarding
18:10:45  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 32bpp-extra - Bug #762 (Reopened): Add ".directory" to you local ignore list <" target="_blank">> || 2cc train set - Revision 465: Fix: Include paths are relative to where they are used <> || 32bpp-extra - Bug #762 (Reopened): Add ".directory" to you local ignore list <>
18:10:53  <DJ_Nekkid> and thus i cant access the VNC from the "outside"
18:11:20  <Ammler> vnc to linux is silly from everywhere :-)
18:11:30  <DJ_Nekkid> why=
18:11:31  <DJ_Nekkid> ?
18:11:47  <Ammler> there are better remote deskop systems...
18:12:08  <DJ_Nekkid> there might :)
18:12:23  <Ammler> _are_ :-P
18:12:49  <DJ_Nekkid> now i am completely in deep watered terrain, and know little or nothing about other systems
18:12:54  <DJ_Nekkid> but what makes them better or worse?
18:13:23  <Ammler> for example nx
18:13:41  <Ammler> better quality for less traffic
18:14:02  <DJ_Nekkid> i tried to install that nx-thingy, but it didnt work...
18:14:03  <DJ_Nekkid> hehe
18:14:22  <DJ_Nekkid> and with my limited linux experience i didnt know how to solve it
18:15:58  <DJ_Nekkid> but i can try again when i get home tormorrow :)
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18:18:34  <Ammler> if you have good bandwith, you could make ssh tunnel for vnc
18:21:56  <DJ_Nekkid> got 1mbit upload at home
18:21:57  <planetmaker> I don't.
18:22:13  <planetmaker> 1MBit down, 128kBit up
18:25:03  <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: then you should be able to make vnc also from outside
18:25:16  <DJ_Nekkid> i already am
18:25:22  <DJ_Nekkid> but as i saied
18:25:27  <DJ_Nekkid> my modem did reset yesterday
18:26:18  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 466: Cleanup: Don't treat the main source file specially <> || 32bpp-extra - Revision 20: Add:Tramtracks (Maquinista, Ben Robbins) <>
18:37:57  <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid: I played a bit around with the Makefile. No changes really, but please tell, if I messed up ;-)
18:38:26  <DJ_Nekkid> oki...
18:38:27  <planetmaker> well. One change: 2cctrainset.pnfo is like all other pnfo files now and no special treatment anymore.
18:38:39  <planetmaker> thus #include "blubber.pnfo" isntead of blubber.pnfo
18:38:55  <DJ_Nekkid> oki :)
18:39:12  <planetmaker> that simplifies things a bit and makes it somewhat less error-prone
18:41:09  <DJ_Nekkid> okidoki :)
18:42:06  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 467: Fix [Makefile]: '.' has a special meaning in regex... escape it <>
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19:11:16  <DJ_Nekkid> planetmaker: could you "make" me a 2cc-grf and pm it on tt-forums?
19:11:29  <DJ_Nekkid> i dont have a compile enviroment set up on this pc
19:11:37  <DJ_Nekkid> nor HG
19:12:00  <planetmaker> does the last nightly suffice? Then get that ;-)
19:12:19  <planetmaker> or did much change since 18:18h today?
19:12:25  <DJ_Nekkid> doh
19:12:32  <DJ_Nekkid> *smack head into wall*
19:12:53  <planetmaker> well... yes, I fixed the the template inclusion error. So the purchase costs are broken in the nightly
19:13:28  <planetmaker> but the template is still broken itself... so not much change actually
19:15:38  <DJ_Nekkid> hmm...
19:15:46  <DJ_Nekkid> why is 464 costs broken?
19:16:15  <planetmaker> parameter size for the action2(?) or callback is broken
19:16:21  <planetmaker> the sprites are 4 bytes too small
19:17:10  <planetmaker> so... I dunno if it actually works or not.
19:17:27  <DJ_Nekkid> wanna make 467 and send?
19:17:29  <DJ_Nekkid> and i'll test
19:20:24  <planetmaker> <-- those things.
19:21:02  <planetmaker> oh... I see it now. It's a broken define...
19:21:39  <DJ_Nekkid> railbusses probably dont have purchase list texts
19:22:14  <planetmaker> so nothing too difficult to fix, I guess
19:22:26  <DJ_Nekkid> nope...
19:22:29  <planetmaker> I feared it was a parameter size issue
19:22:39  <planetmaker> that'd be bad
19:23:45  <DJ_Nekkid> either way... a make of r467 would be cool, and i'll playtest it
19:23:54  <DJ_Nekkid> i RARELY use railbusses anyway
19:24:37  <DJ_Nekkid> got 2hrs to Gig-time anyway :)
19:25:56  <DJ_Nekkid> and 2cc + cargodist + modded early houses is fun :)
19:26:09  <planetmaker> sending
19:26:10  <Ammler> early houses?
19:26:27  <DJ_Nekkid> your version have half pax upto 1900 or something
19:26:42  <DJ_Nekkid> the modded version in the tt-forums thread have that forever(ish)
19:26:50  <planetmaker> set
19:26:52  <planetmaker> *sent
19:28:18  <DJ_Nekkid> wee!
19:31:55  <DJ_Nekkid> hmm
19:32:03  <DJ_Nekkid> that error apperently wont load the set...
19:32:05  <DJ_Nekkid> bah :)
19:32:21  <DJ_Nekkid> guess i'll need to fix that tomorrow
19:32:52  <andythenorth> hi hi
19:37:28  <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: you could code a station grf in the 2 hours ;-)
19:37:52  <Ammler> a grf which reuses the ttd base sprites
19:37:54  <DJ_Nekkid> i've never tried that...
19:38:48  <Ammler> well, that is why you need an hour
19:38:55  <Ammler> else you could do it in 2 mins ;-)
19:39:19  <DJ_Nekkid> thanx! :D
19:39:33  <DJ_Nekkid> pm me the sprites, and i'll try?
19:39:37  <DJ_Nekkid> or upload somewhere
19:39:45  <Ammler> sprites?
19:39:58  <Ammler> opengfx
19:39:59  <DJ_Nekkid> wont i need sprites to make a station?
19:40:16  <Ammler> I like to place the houses like stations
19:40:56  <DJ_Nekkid> i.e. tiles you cant drive into=
19:40:58  <DJ_Nekkid> ?
19:41:06  <planetmaker> Ammler: didn't XTC make one?+
19:41:19  <Ammler> he showed me pieces of
19:41:33  <Ammler> wasn't able to make a grf with
19:41:36  <DJ_Nekkid> or do you mean like overpasses?
19:41:47  <DJ_Nekkid> well...
19:41:51  <DJ_Nekkid> subway stations :)
19:41:52  <Ammler> non-track tiles
19:41:59  <Ammler> all
19:42:09  <Ammler> just for debuging
19:42:40  <planetmaker> Ammler: maybe as rail sprite?
19:42:49  <planetmaker> :-D
19:42:56  <planetmaker> then you don't have to deal with station code
19:43:06  <Ammler> new rail type, indeed :-)
19:43:09  <planetmaker> the new auto-house feature ;-)
19:43:39  <planetmaker> in one direction it looks like a rail, in the other like a shopping mall
19:45:42  <DJ_Nekkid> if renum supported it...
19:45:43  <DJ_Nekkid> *sigh*
19:46:08  <Ammler> DJNekkid: how do you reuse ttd sprites?
19:46:09  <planetmaker> Ammler: honestly: just replace one of the rail sprites with a house
19:46:20  <Ammler> planetmaker: show me your code
19:46:34  <planetmaker> or the light house
19:46:49  <Ammler> planetmaker: debug is quite useless, if I need to fiddle with real sprites :-P
19:46:51  <planetmaker> I don't have any :-)
19:47:02  <DJ_Nekkid> Ammler: decode a set and use normal action1-2-3
19:47:17  <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: also possible, show me how?
19:47:42  <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: you know what I want?
19:47:55  <planetmaker> difficult... :-)
19:48:11  <DJ_Nekkid> nontrack tiles with house gfx+
19:48:12  <DJ_Nekkid> ?
19:48:32  <Ammler> mainly I just like to place base sprites manually
19:48:44  <Ammler> like manual scenario mode :-)
19:49:17  <Ammler> I thought, that is the easiest do make those non-track station tiles
19:49:39  <Ammler> we could also paste the real sprites from the nfo
19:49:49  <planetmaker> hm... reverse action A ;-)
19:50:04  <Ammler> as long as we don't need to fiddle with offsets
19:50:20  <Ammler> the real sprites needs to stay untouched
19:50:27  <planetmaker> I guess the only easy way is to copy&paste the real sprites
19:50:39  <planetmaker> into the newgrf
19:50:40  <Ammler> yes
19:50:43  <Ammler> fine with
19:50:45  <Ammler> me
19:51:11  <planetmaker> fine with one sprite per time?
19:51:19  <Ammler> I could make a script for that
19:51:29  <Ammler> I just need a kind of template
19:52:36  <Ammler> I guess, I checkout a grf from maguista
19:52:43  <Ammler> he did something similar once
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19:54:27  <DJ_Nekkid> well, all you need is a single action0, single action1-3
19:56:08  <Ammler> curling is THRILLER!
19:56:25  <Ammler> sweden trashed last stone
19:56:36  <Ammler> now Swiss has bronze in the hand
19:57:41  <Ammler> 1mm :-D
19:58:02  <DJ_Nekkid> Ammler: "With bit 31 set, this sprite will refer to a TTD sprite, not the action 1 sprite."
19:58:36  <Ammler> yes, could you show me a template :-)
19:58:45  <Ammler> I never did something with Action1/2/3
19:59:06  <Ammler> BRONZE! :-D
19:59:54  <Ammler> now, Norway is going for Gold :-)
19:59:55  <DJ_Nekkid> but you dont need action1-2-3 (it seems)
20:00:06  <planetmaker> you need 1
20:00:10  <DJ_Nekkid> sweeden vs you in the bronze?
20:00:23  <DJ_Nekkid> and you win?
20:00:27  <DJ_Nekkid> thats golden!
20:00:29  <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: yes, we won with last stone closer 1mm :-)
20:00:56  <DJ_Nekkid> thats just like the 2002 or 2006 norway vs canada final
20:01:04  <DJ_Nekkid> we won over them by a fingernail
20:01:17  <DJ_Nekkid> and canada had the last stone in the 10th end
20:01:21  <Ammler> well, else we would get a 11th end
20:01:49  <Ammler> but our womens lost against china
20:02:32  <DJ_Nekkid> speaking of that...
20:02:39  <DJ_Nekkid> why isnt curling a mixed sport?
20:02:54  <DJ_Nekkid> are men "better" then women at it?
20:02:57  <Ammler> yes
20:03:28  <Ammler> :-)
20:03:36  <DJ_Nekkid> seriously?
20:03:55  <DJ_Nekkid> and now im talking in general
20:04:01  <Ammler> they can make shooters to make 4-take-out and souch
20:04:13  <DJ_Nekkid> and why cant women do that?
20:04:23  <Ammler> less power
20:04:28  <DJ_Nekkid> i mean, its a precicion sport, not power
20:05:01  <Ammler> well, the co-commenter on our tv was a ex curling women and told that
20:05:09  <DJ_Nekkid> oki... :)
20:05:16  <DJ_Nekkid> then its setteled :)
20:05:17  <DJ_Nekkid> hehe
20:05:23  <DJ_Nekkid> i've just been wondering on this...
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20:05:41  <Ammler> well, maybe only on olympic level
20:05:44  <DJ_Nekkid> and i could not see a single reason why they could not have 2men+2women
20:05:58  <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: that should work
20:06:09  <DJ_Nekkid> and, a fit women is way stronger then me either way
20:06:18  <Ammler> of course :-)
20:06:33  <Rubidium> aren't women culturally more "adapted" to a "broom"?
20:06:36  <DJ_Nekkid> and im no wimp as such
20:06:49  <Ammler> you aren't?
20:06:55  <Rubidium> so because the women are better the men get they own league!
20:07:23  <Ammler> :-)
20:07:27  <DJ_Nekkid> good point Rubidium :)
20:07:47  <DJ_Nekkid> 185cm tall, around 85kg...
20:07:56  <DJ_Nekkid> got a partially physical job
20:07:56  <Ammler> the women told, they would maybe win 1-2 ends
20:08:44  <Rubidium> getting coffee for the boss?
20:09:01  <Ammler> which is a women
20:18:47  <DJ_Nekkid> wee!
20:18:51  <DJ_Nekkid> forked fixed my modem!
20:18:55  <DJ_Nekkid> (he works for my ISP)
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20:30:42  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 32bpp-extra - Bug #762: Add ".directory" to you local ignore list <>
20:32:15  <DJNekkid> huh? i didnt think the 30/50km had skichange!
20:36:40  <Ammler> DJNekkid: any code?
20:37:02  <DJNekkid> for the station?
20:37:08  <Ammler> yes :-P
20:37:15  <DJNekkid> didnt try...
20:37:20  <Ammler> :'-(
20:46:45  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Comic Style Houses - Revision 69: Doc: some small code comments and two houses sprites massaged a... <> || 2cc train set - Revision 468: Fix: the railbus-problem after pcost moved out of templates <>
20:52:04  <planetmaker> Ammler: I haven't quite tested it, but it *should* do the work:
20:52:36  <planetmaker> chose instead of \w1520 any sprite number you want to replace
20:53:02  <planetmaker> in the following line add your "real sprite" so to say, with the same offsets etc pp
20:58:44  <planetmaker> <-- that's the shorter version. Removed all version check stuff
20:59:14  <Ammler> yeah, ActionA, if all other fails...
21:02:23  <Ammler> I guess, I found the grf...
21:03:22  <planetmaker> you need to find a proper sprite number to replace. 1520 is no in particular, I don't know which
21:03:28  <Ammler>
21:03:30  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - [32bpp] Extra zoom levels Graphics (at
21:06:34  <Ammler> that grf looks a bit complicated
21:14:31  <DJNekkid> not that MaritBjørgen is ultrafeminine, but that Kowalzyk looks like a man!
21:20:04  <Ammler> grf ready? :-P
21:50:29  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 32bpp-extra - Bug #762: Add ".directory" to you local ignore list <>
22:32:14  * DJNekkid is gig'ing :)
22:42:02  * planetmaker giggles
22:55:42  * Frankr joins in
22:59:51  * DJNekkid had a great idea inbetween some mixes regarding the dutch/bros/other similar sets' code :D
23:00:35  <DJNekkid> well, the idea is actually andythenorths , but that doesnt matter :) He just doesnt know it
23:01:28  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: can you record your stuff as midi actually?
23:04:51  <DJNekkid> mp3?
23:05:08  <planetmaker> nope, midi :-)
23:05:29  <Frankr> lol
23:05:31  <DJNekkid> no, but my mixer supports midi-kommands to a compyter if needed
23:05:43  <Frankr> so it can go into openttd
23:05:54  <planetmaker> does that mean it could write that to a midi file?
23:06:03  <planetmaker> :-D @ Frankr :-)
23:06:11  <Frankr> :p
23:06:29  <planetmaker> seems I'm too obvious ;-)
23:06:46  <planetmaker> 46 downloads from bananas so far
23:07:19  <planetmaker> 15k OpenGFX 0.2.1 downloads
23:07:42  <DJNekkid> 50k 2cc set dls :P
23:07:58  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: for all versions OpenGFX has 78k ;-)
23:08:08  <DJNekkid> blablabla:P
23:08:19  <planetmaker> and even my silly Mars elevation model has 25k...
23:08:23  <Rubidium> 7,441,612 total downloads
23:08:25  <Ammler> then 50k is huge
23:08:43  <Frankr> :)
23:09:02  <planetmaker> Rubidium: is that number shown there still correct, given the mirrors?
23:09:24  <Rubidium> yes-ish
23:09:43  <Rubidium> although the number has always been the upper bound; if a download isn't finished it's still counted
23:10:11  <planetmaker> right
23:10:19  <Rubidium> it's the 'downloads requested' count
23:10:59  <planetmaker> any handle on the successful download ratio?
23:11:07  <planetmaker> as a rough guestimate?
23:11:25  <Rubidium> msys/mingw serious should research speeding up stuff
23:11:33  <Rubidium> planetmaker: nope, can't give a guestimate
23:12:00  <planetmaker> yeah... msys/mingw wasn't the fastest compiler around...
23:12:21  <Rubidium> especially autoconf is *slow*
23:13:04  <planetmaker> I always attributed it to it running in a VM, though
23:13:19  <planetmaker> I have no native windows experience with it.
23:41:59  <Ammler> planetmaker: how stable is current firs nightly?
23:42:07  <Ammler> or andythenorth ^
23:42:30  <Ammler> (is it playable?)
23:42:37  <Rubidium> lovely... lzo configures&compiles in 38 seconds, still needs already more than 38 minutes on mingw in virtualbox
23:43:47  <planetmaker> :-O
23:44:00  <planetmaker> Ammler: in principle yes
23:44:15  <planetmaker> I played with one a few revs earlier and it was quite nice
23:44:28  <planetmaker> few = ~10
23:45:36  <Ammler> then I bananas it
23:45:44  <planetmaker> k
23:45:59  <Ammler> (still hidden)
23:46:19  <Ammler> but the current nightly on bananas is quite old
23:46:20  <planetmaker> yes, then it's fine anyway
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23:47:25  <Ammler> oh, now the gcc33 patch strikes back :-)
23:48:54  <Rubidium> yay... lzo compiled!
23:49:27  <Rubidium> 47 minutes
23:52:31  <Ammler> planetmaker: you guys are aware that firs doesn't compile without errors?
23:52:58  <planetmaker> hm, not quite?
23:53:21  <Ammler> <-- #2850
23:56:33  <planetmaker> hm... make a ticket please
23:56:47  <planetmaker> iirc that's new
23:59:50  <Ammler> why do we need a ticket, the logs should be clear...

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