Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 6th March 2010:
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00:42:50  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: World Airliners Set - Revision 621: Lots Of More Data Added To Input of New Coding Table <>
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02:57:36  * DJNekkid is drunk, but saies hi anyway
02:58:39  <DJNekkid> hmm... more then 1hr sinse last  quit ... last chat were 3,5hrs ago! :D
02:59:15  <DJNekkid> club.grf > blub.grf :D
02:59:22  <Frankr> hello
02:59:32  <PeterT> Why are you up at this hour?
02:59:39  <Frankr> me?
02:59:56  <PeterT> yes
03:00:00  <PeterT> It's like 4 AM
03:00:11  <Frankr> i just been playing Table Tennis, Pool, and Fifa 10 for the last 3hr
03:00:15  <Frankr> 3am
03:00:25  <Frankr> 4am for DJ
03:01:12  <DJNekkid> ive been ... ehm ... drunk :P
03:01:24  <DJNekkid> atleast, i've been clubbing :)
03:01:42  <DJNekkid> and yes 4am
03:02:05  <DJNekkid> Frankr: im quite sure that is pocket tennis, not table tennis :P
03:02:28  <Frankr> lol
03:02:34  <Frankr> Djing
03:02:37  <Frankr> or clubbin
03:02:46  <DJNekkid> (if pocket tennis is the same as the norwegian-english translation is)
03:02:51  <DJNekkid> clubbing tonight
03:02:56  <DJNekkid> DJ'ing last night
03:02:59  <Frankr> cool
03:03:03  <DJNekkid> clubbing again 2morrow
03:03:09  <Frankr> definitely table tennis dj
03:03:13  <Frankr> or ping pong
03:03:30  <DJNekkid> we can say that if that is what you prefer :D
03:03:35  <Frankr> @ping
03:03:36  <Webster> pong
03:03:39  <Frankr> :)
03:03:54  <DJNekkid> im even surprised ppl is awake atm :)
03:04:45  <DJNekkid> i were close to 100% sure that the next conversation here would be Yexo, planetmaker and/or Ammler about someting trivial :D
03:04:45  <Frankr> i just got in
03:04:52  <Frankr> lol
03:04:55  <DJNekkid> been clubbing aswell?
03:05:00  <Frankr> half my flat is up
03:05:26  <Frankr> no been messing around in community area, few beers, and some games
03:05:30  <DJNekkid> i.e. your GF is aslee?
03:05:42  <DJNekkid> asleep
03:06:17  <Frankr> nope, just at uni
03:06:50  <DJNekkid> uni...versity?
03:06:53  <Frankr> yh
03:07:27  <DJNekkid> okidoki... ... ehm...
03:07:31  <DJNekkid> something! :D
03:07:37  <Frankr> :p
03:07:39  <DJNekkid> are you on facebook?
03:07:44  <Frankr> yh
03:07:49  <DJNekkid> pm me your name?
03:08:09  <DJNekkid> (if you dont wanna leave it here)
03:08:14  <DJNekkid> or search up my nick
03:08:20  <Frankr> DJNekkid: Robert Francis
03:08:53  <Frankr> i need to add, Frank in centre
03:09:19  <DJNekkid> there are a bunch of robertfrancis's there...
03:09:57  <Frankr> try Manchester area
03:10:50  <DJNekkid> i have no idea on how to search in a spec area
03:11:04  <DJNekkid> try Thomas DJNekkid <surname>
03:11:32  <Frankr> ok
03:11:46  <DJNekkid> should be a picture of 3ppl
03:12:07  <DJNekkid> one in green(ish), a busty girl, and a dude in gray'ish
03:15:10  <Frankr> ok
03:15:45  <DJNekkid> btw, my father is from manchester...
03:15:50  <DJNekkid> lives in norway tho
03:15:59  <DJNekkid> for the last ... close-to-29-years
03:16:09  <DJNekkid> his norwegian SUCKS tho
03:16:33  <Frankr> lol
03:16:48  <Frankr> cool where abouts in Manchester, do you know?
03:17:31  <DJNekkid> ehm ... the ...
03:17:44  <DJNekkid> parts ... around...
03:17:50  <DJNekkid> thoose buildings!
03:18:11  <DJNekkid> i.e: i have absolutely no idea
03:18:23  <DJNekkid> his sirname is "Robinson" tho :)
03:18:32  <DJNekkid> (if that helps ya)
03:20:32  <Frankr> lol, around what buildings, manchester
03:21:21  <Frankr> i can't find ya, unless you r a guy on a beach
03:22:22  <Frankr> your last name is Mjelva
03:22:42  <DJNekkid> it is
03:23:19  <Frankr> hmm
03:23:54  <DJNekkid> tbh, i have know idea where around manchaster he is from... he fucked my mum 29.5yrs ago in mallorca or something, and here i am :)
03:24:05  <Frankr> lol
03:24:38  <DJNekkid> he dont care shit about football tho...
03:24:54  <DJNekkid> but,his sister and my uncle is BIG ManU fans
03:25:17  <Frankr> :)
03:25:33  <Frankr> try that
03:25:35  <DJNekkid> correction: HUGEsuch fans
03:25:43  <Frankr> see if you can add me that way
03:26:19  <DJNekkid> i have no invites?
03:27:12  <Frankr> pmd u
03:28:10  <Frankr> you get that?
03:28:58  <DJNekkid> dont seem like it
03:29:13  <DJNekkid> nvm, irc pm
03:29:18  <DJNekkid> not facebook pm
03:30:35  <Frankr> there you are
03:31:03  <DJNekkid> :D:dD
03:31:59  <DJNekkid> 1991?? :d
03:32:03  <Frankr> :) ah its in norwegian
03:32:05  <DJNekkid> im getting SO old!
03:32:09  <Frankr> lol
03:32:46  <DJNekkid> tho, im nothing compared to ammler and planetmaker  ... 42 and 35 (or something) iirc
03:33:15  <DJNekkid> but yea, most of my updates are in norwegian
03:33:43  <DJNekkid> should be accurate enough to translate them to something understandable
03:33:51  <Frankr> :)
03:34:50  <Frankr> Petert is 14 i think
03:35:07  <Frankr> could be wrong there
03:35:24  <DJNekkid> im 29 the 25th of april
03:35:24  <Frankr> i feel old on Clanmega
03:35:37  <Frankr> beardie is 27th April
03:35:50  <DJNekkid> most openttdcoop guys is "old"
03:36:20  <Frankr> I bet all the main coders are as well
03:39:02  <DJNekkid> i have absolutely no idea ... but if i concider the game (original ttd) came around 1995, and if the devs were teens back then, they would be around 28-35...
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03:39:43  <DJNekkid> id make a qualified quess that they have an average age of 33...
03:39:46  <DJNekkid> i have absolutely no idea ... but if i concider the game (original ttd) came around 1995, and if the devs were teens back then, they would be around 28-35...
03:39:48  <DJNekkid> id make a qualified quess that they have an average age of 33...
03:39:50  <Frankr> i died
03:40:03  * DJNekkid hates peer
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03:41:57  <Frankr> there we go
03:42:12  <Frankr> i hate that firefox don't have a x64
03:42:15  <DJNekkid> i have absolutely no idea ... but if i concider the game (original ttd) came around 1995, and if the devs were teens back then, they would be around 28-35...
03:42:17  <DJNekkid> id make a qualified quess that they have an average age of 33...
03:42:18  <DJNekkid> i have absolutely no idea ... but if i concider the game (original ttd) came around 1995, and if the devs were teens back then, they would be around 28-35...
03:42:21  * DJNekkid hates peer
03:42:53  <Frankr> :)
03:43:42  <Frankr> i think the only person older than me on clanmega is Mega himself
03:46:31  <DJNekkid> either way, sleep calls!
03:46:33  <DJNekkid> ttyl
03:46:33  <Frankr> btw you have a lovely wife
03:46:37  <Frankr> yh cya
03:46:50  <DJNekkid> i know :P
03:46:55  <Frankr> :)
03:47:10  <DJNekkid> <3 titts
03:47:56  <DJNekkid> but dont tell my misstress she's flat ;P
03:49:11  <Frankr> lol
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07:51:44  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 19: Update: New version of 'Keep on Rolling' <> || Redmine - Revision 3388: Remove double negative condition <> || Redmine - Revision 3387: Refactor: Moved the contents of #issue_update into Issue. <>
08:07:45  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Revision 312: Change: Update to makefile r61 <>
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08:23:47  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #777 (New): Sheep farm producing cotton in Tropic <> || Snowline mod - Revision 8: Change [Makefile]: Update to makefile r61 <> || Nutracks - Revision 30: Change [Makefile]: Update to makefile r61 <> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 217: Change [Makefile]: Update to makefile r61 <> || 2cc train set - Revision 476: Change [Makefile]: Update to makefile r61 <> || FISH - Revision 254: Change [Makefile]: Update to makefile r61 <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 599: Change [Makefile]: Update to makefile r61 <> || Climate dependant airports - Revision 29: Change [Makefile]: Update to makefile r61 <>
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10:00:10  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Revision 313: Fix: The origin was not properly indicated <>
10:16:10  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Example NewGRF Project - Revision 63: Change: Add a '-' between nightly and version in the versio... <> || OpenGFX - Revision 314: Fix: Also indicate the version in the ingame description properly <> || Example NewGRF Project - Revision 62: Change: Allow updating of several projects at once <>
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11:16:23  <Ammler> planetmaker: good day :-)
11:16:32  <Ammler> creating backup is finished at 4
11:16:46  <Ammler> du -sh * takes another 40 mins :-)
11:17:15  <Ammler> I should disable that, maybe :-)
11:18:17  <planetmaker> good day Ammler :-)
11:18:19  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenSFX - Revision 74: Change: Rewrite makefile, similar to newgrf makefile r62 <>
11:22:22  <Ammler> oh, you fixed bunde_src
11:24:03  <planetmaker> yup :-)
11:24:25  <planetmaker> a bit ugly IMO, but...
11:26:27  <Ammler> md5sum: WARNING: 2 of 7 computed checksums did NOT match
11:26:40  <Ammler> at least check would work :-)
11:27:02  <Ammler> I do a make clean and check again
11:27:13  <Ammler> maybe dependency bugs
11:30:12  <planetmaker> hm, I tested here and it matched
11:30:40  <planetmaker> btw, make remake still works ;-)
11:32:00  <Ammler> the .md5 seems not to rebuild...
11:33:05  <PeterT> Yes, Frankr, PeterT is 14
11:33:07  <PeterT> @logs
11:33:07  <Webster> Logs:
11:33:09  <planetmaker> it should always be rebuilt by bundle_src
11:35:10  <planetmaker> but it doesn't re-build if opengfx.obg isn't re-built. Why should it then.
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11:37:06  <Ammler> well, obg and extra was rebuild
11:37:14  <Ammler> extra because of the version
11:37:20  <planetmaker> yes, that's fine
11:37:30  <Ammler> so the md5 schould also :-)
11:37:40  <planetmaker> and then the md5 is re-built - if bundle_src is called
11:37:51  <planetmaker> only bundle_src triggers md5
11:37:53  <Ammler> well, it didn't
11:37:55  <planetmaker> a normal make doesn't
11:40:40  <Ammler>
11:41:19  <Ammler> extra didn't
11:41:23  <planetmaker> thx. I'll look at it. Will be back in a bit.
11:41:42  <Ammler> and obg didn't
11:41:48  <planetmaker> a shop I need to go closes very soon :-)
11:41:59  <planetmaker> hm... it just worked here, if I touched extra.pnfo
11:42:01  <Ammler> can't go out here
11:42:06  <Ammler> winter again :-)
11:42:14  <planetmaker> yeah, here, too
11:43:30  <Ammler> also something broken with make install...
11:45:44  <Ammler> [INSTALL] to /home/abuild/.openttd/data
11:46:21  <Ammler> + make install INSTALLDIR=/usr/src/packages/BUILDROOT/openttd-data-opengfx-nightly-r314-1.x86_64/usr/share/openttd/data
11:47:58  <Ammler> well, the log is here:
12:02:05  <Ammler> and why again do I need to rename the md5 file?
12:02:25  <Ammler> why can't it be called like the other files? (name-version.md5)
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13:29:41  <DJNekkid> Yexo, Rubidium or others: is it possible to check if the measuring unit' option is set to Metric, imperial or SI ? (action 7/9)
13:30:29  <Yexo> no, it's a client side option so it can be differnt on multiplayer clients
13:30:35  <Yexo> so it'd desync if you switched on it
13:30:52  <DJNekkid> oki...
13:31:18  <Ammler> don't mass highlight :-P
13:32:18  <DJNekkid> so... no different texts based on measuring units ... i.e. mph/kmh for the nutracks text
13:32:27  <Yexo> oh, actually it seems to be stored in the savegame
13:32:31  <Yexo> so the same for all clients
13:32:42  <Yexo> I didn't expect that, but it should be possible then
13:33:26  <DJNekkid> one possible way is to set kmh for language 7F/FF and mph for american or something
13:46:03  <Yexo> DJNekkid: no idea how doable this is, but wouldn't it be easier if the newgrf set a special string code + the speed in mph and let openttd figure out how the client wants it displayed?
13:47:31  <Ammler> kmh/mph != language setting
13:47:38  <Ammler> that is like currency
13:47:52  <DJNekkid> i know, but its a plausible workaround
13:48:26  <Ammler> I already hate, that I have to use , (comma) instead of . (dot) for numbers, if I use german
13:48:59  <DJNekkid> i hate that i have to use . when i use english :)
13:49:16  <Ammler> you see ;-)
13:49:31  <Yexo> DJNekkid: you can just use string code 84
13:49:41  <Yexo> it's already supported :)
13:50:28  <DJNekkid> hmm...
13:50:52  <DJNekkid> but it wont translate 160 to 100, would it?
13:50:58  <DJNekkid> (kmh to mph)
13:51:03  <Yexo> it will
13:51:13  <Yexo> but I think it's the other way around, mph is default I think
13:51:16  <Yexo> not 100% sure on that
13:51:30  <Yexo> but it's the same default as for vehicles, if that tells you anything
13:51:42  <DJNekkid> thats kmh afaik...
13:51:51  <Yexo> then this is kmh too
13:51:52  <DJNekkid> but...
13:52:12  <DJNekkid> its for the rail-list-thingy
13:52:42  <Yexo> so? string code 84 is supported in all newgrf strings (or at least nearly all)
13:53:20  <DJNekkid> but where would it read the speed-part from?
13:53:52  <Yexo> oh, right :(
13:53:54  <Yexo> the stack
13:55:15  <DJNekkid> the stack?
13:55:29  <Yexo> the newgrf text stack
13:55:37  <Yexo> which I guess is not available for the rail-list
13:55:55  <Ammler> oh, openttd does support SI
13:58:17  <DJNekkid> but the only good solution i can see is to separate american and UK english
13:58:43  <DJNekkid> as the other strings ingame probably have only marginaly differences
14:00:03  <DJNekkid> and its basicly only thoose two countries left that use MPH
14:01:21  <planetmaker> <-- Ammler that's fine afaik. None of my commits touched any of the grfs. So... no need to re-md5 anything
14:02:47  <planetmaker> hm... though the extra one *should* be re-built. Version stuff
14:02:57  <planetmaker> hm...
14:05:06  <Ammler> well, read further
14:05:16  <Ammler> there is a essential issue ;-)
14:05:47  <Ammler> anyway, that one should be solved too.
14:06:34  <Ammler> planetmaker: you could also remove the version stuff from extra, if that helps
14:06:48  <Ammler> it is for ttdpatch only, so not really necessary
14:07:43  <planetmaker> That version thing must not be removed. It's a general thing for all newgrf
14:07:56  <planetmaker> it 'just' needs working
14:08:04  <Ammler> just :-P
14:08:06  <planetmaker> also I don't get your md5-related comment
14:08:17  <Ammler> then ignore it
14:08:50  <Ammler> I can pickup that one again, when everything else works :-P
14:08:53  <planetmaker> I name the md5 file exactly as the repo is called. or how would you want it called? Like the grf / obg /obs ?
14:09:08  <planetmaker> And 'like repo' was your proposal ;-)
14:09:13  <Ammler> no
14:09:17  <planetmaker> of course :-)
14:09:25  <Ammler> name-version was my proposal
14:09:33  <planetmaker> yes. And that's what it's called
14:09:38  <planetmaker> opengfx-nightly.md5
14:09:47  <planetmaker> and opengfx-0.3.0.md5 for a release
14:09:49  <Ammler>
14:10:20  <Ammler> but that really isn't important
14:10:23  <planetmaker> why is the zip in there?
14:10:33  <Ammler> because that one is made by me
14:10:50  <Ammler> I would replace that with your
14:11:14  <Ammler> but I need the version in there
14:11:32  <planetmaker> I see.
14:11:45  <Ammler> but again, really not important
14:12:15  <Ammler> either you do it in Makefile or I rename it in the compile script...
14:22:58  <DJNekkid> what do you guys think about a even slower and cheaper railtype? people seem to want that...
14:24:39  <Ammler> and use rusty graphics?
14:25:03  <DJNekkid> probably, :)
14:27:23  <Ammler> hmm, nutracks has still compile errors
14:28:12  <Ammler> planetmaker: "unix2dos: converting file docs/readme.ptxt to DOS format ..." <-- is that fixed with new Makefile?
14:28:55  <planetmaker> depends on the definition of 'fixed'
14:29:28  <Ammler> opengfx is empty
14:29:38  <Ammler> so it is :-)
14:30:09  <Ammler> well, it looks like a bug of unix2dos
14:30:15  <planetmaker> yeah
14:30:27  <planetmaker> that shouldn't be in stderr but in stdio
14:30:32  <planetmaker> *stdout
14:31:25  <Ammler> well, you could run unix2dos 2>&1
14:31:41  <Ammler> hmm, I should use "well" a bit fewer...
14:31:50  <Ammler> and "hmm" :-)
14:32:05  <planetmaker> ;-)
14:32:12  <planetmaker> :-P
14:32:54  <Ammler> no?
14:33:35  <planetmaker> well, it's difficult. And... is it important?
14:33:49  <planetmaker> Otherwise it would always sound like 'know it all' ;-)
14:34:37  <Ammler> well, it is important, that it doesn't print to stderr
14:34:41  <Ammler> as it isn't a err
14:35:04  <planetmaker> yes :-)
14:35:17  <Ammler> how you silence it, I don't care :-P
14:35:27  <Ammler> but the error log should be empty, if all fine
14:37:14  <Ammler> well
14:37:26  <Ammler> you used -q in opengfx, why is that bad?
14:37:31  <planetmaker> it *should* already be silent
14:37:55  <planetmaker> it silences unix2dos in all cases, no matter what the error or not
14:42:10  <Ammler> DJNekkid: you could remove the "silencer" about warning 44 & 47
14:42:24  <Ammler> as they should be in patched renum, aren't?
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15:35:04  <planetmaker> Ammler: could you test with whether the ref check works then?
15:54:31  <planetmaker> <-- small update @ Ammler
15:58:46  <Ammler> planetmaker: rev check?
16:04:46  <planetmaker> the re-build issue with the md5
16:04:55  <planetmaker> it's a rev check issue in its core
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16:32:41  <Frankr> Guys is devzone down
16:43:45  <Frankr> @logs
16:43:45  <Webster> Logs:
17:31:05  <planetmaker> seems/ed like :S
17:31:16  <planetmaker> check again in 5 minutes
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17:34:34  <PeterT> Bouncer fail.
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17:50:12  <Ammler> what happen?
17:50:36  <PeterT> BNC failed.
17:50:44  <Ammler> no
17:50:57  <Ammler> it was a reboot
18:02:48  <Ammler> planetmaker: the "main" bug on current Makefile is that make install failed...
18:10:59  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: #openttdcoop - Membership #778 (New): Applying for project: xUSSRset <>
18:14:09  <Ammler> the rev issue is quite easy to test, just update to something past, run make update to tip, run make again
18:14:21  <Ammler> if extra doesn't rebuild, it doesn't work
18:14:42  <Ammler> someone an idea about that xUSSRset?
18:15:38  <Ammler> @ping
18:15:38  <Webster> pong
18:16:42  <Ammler> @services op
18:16:42  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Webster
18:21:55  <Doorslammer> In Soviet Russia, goods move train
18:22:42  <Ammler> yeah, but the set itself, is there already something available?
18:23:39  <Ammler> the forum he links is complete in russia
18:24:15  <Doorslammer> Oh
18:24:21  <Doorslammer> Never really heard of it is all
18:34:07  <planetmaker> [18:50]	<Ammler>	what happen? <-- server unreachable by all means I had (ssh, web, hg)
18:36:40  <Doorslammer> [18:50]	<Ammler>	what happen?   Someone set us up the bomb
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18:52:32  <planetmaker> Ammler: it's INSTALL_DIR not INSTALLDIR ;-)
18:52:47  <planetmaker> I'm afraid that I obviously changed that...
18:53:03  <planetmaker> for better readibility and consistency
18:54:22  <Rubidium> I guess you need to mention that in the release notes and the changelog :)
18:54:31  <Rubidium> otherwise many packagers are going to be unhappy
18:57:31  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: #openttdcoop - Membership #778: Applying for project: xUSSRset <>
19:00:39  <planetmaker> Hm, I guess... Or I revert that
19:00:56  <planetmaker> Or only deprecate that...
19:01:13  <planetmaker> That sounds like an idea ;-)
19:09:38  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: this is more your department... how do i add a error message if "vehicles never expire" is on?
19:09:47  <DJNekkid> ttdpatchflag 16
19:10:37  <planetmaker> uhm... Use an action7 checking for that and have it skip the error message, if it is off
19:10:45  <planetmaker> But please don't make that setting an error
19:11:22  <planetmaker> Look at those lines where I check for the EnginePool
19:11:31  <planetmaker> You need just another parameter
19:11:39  <planetmaker> I think in header.pnfo
19:11:42  <DJNekkid> yea
19:11:46  <DJNekkid> i were looking at that
19:11:53  <DJNekkid> i gues the 78 is enginepool :)
19:12:03  <planetmaker> the newgrf wiki knows
19:12:11  <planetmaker> global variables
19:12:56  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Revision 315: Change: Update to makefile r64 <> || Example NewGRF Project - Revision 64: Fix: The check whether files need update due to a changed v... <>
19:13:36  <planetmaker> ah... TTDPFlags:
19:14:56  <planetmaker> 0x16
19:15:00  <planetmaker> enginepersist
19:15:03  <DJNekkid> yea :)
19:15:15  <planetmaker> But honestly: why do you want to check for that?
19:15:40  <DJNekkid> it should be off...
19:15:49  <DJNekkid> unless there will be some wierd engines :)
19:16:06  <planetmaker> why should it be off?
19:16:16  <planetmaker> I always play with that on
19:16:43  <planetmaker> Only realism freaks require it to be off
19:17:27  <planetmaker> and control freaks code their sets such that they require it >:-|
19:17:45  <DJNekkid> because of the engins i add to enable the new railtypes
19:18:01  <planetmaker> not a good reason
19:19:17  <DJNekkid> im open for suggestions :)
19:19:41  <DJNekkid> blank sprites?
19:19:54  <DJNekkid> with 0 power, 0 everything?
19:22:49  <planetmaker> yes 1HP max speed 1km/h
19:23:03  <planetmaker> similar to LordAzamath's invisible engine
19:23:34  <planetmaker> but... even then I don't understand it.
19:23:40  <planetmaker> why do you need it?
19:24:19  <planetmaker> Just make a new engine in the 2ccTrainset use that.
19:24:28  <DJNekkid> if there arent any engines available for a certain tracktype, it isnt available...
19:24:32  <planetmaker> e.g. the ICE or TGV has high speed as primary track
19:24:37  <planetmaker> yes.
19:25:18  <Ammler> planetmaker: make it an alias
19:25:33  <planetmaker> yes, Ammler :-)
19:25:38  <planetmaker> your wish is my command :-P
19:25:48  <Ammler> thanks :-)
19:26:12  <planetmaker> I hope it's somewhat easily possible
19:26:35  <Ammler> alias: target
19:26:59  <planetmaker> oh, that works?
19:27:24  <planetmaker> uhm... INSTALL_DIR and INSTALLDIR are variables. Not targets
19:27:50  <DJNekkid> but, shouldnt the nutracks be available for other trainsets as well?
19:28:24  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: still. Requiring that setting is not a solution. I would always play w/o those tracks then.
19:28:37  <planetmaker> As would #openttdcoop on all its servers
19:28:46  <Ammler> oh, indeed :-)
19:28:56  <DJNekkid> why i do it in another way :)
19:29:44  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: Indeed I'd say the 'best' solution is a setting like for houses or vehicles: introduction and expiry date.
19:29:51  <planetmaker> but... that's not available :-(
19:30:42  <DJNekkid> exactly
19:32:14  *** Doorslammer has quit IRC
19:33:04  <planetmaker> Proposal:
19:33:14  <planetmaker> Make an engine for each track type
19:33:45  <planetmaker> Don't make it big or huge or whatever and have it expire quickly
19:33:57  <planetmaker> And add a parameter which allows to disable all these engines.
19:34:09  <DJNekkid> i already have added that
19:34:14  <planetmaker> For use with sets which support the track types natively
19:34:16  <DJNekkid> introyear 0, with 1year avalability
19:34:28  <planetmaker> That's fine
19:34:44  <planetmaker> Make it maybe even a Funny train :-)
19:34:55  <DJNekkid> funnytrain?
19:34:58  <planetmaker> A double head with "nutracks" advertisement on it ;-)
19:35:07  <planetmaker> like two ice heads attached :-P
19:35:21  <planetmaker> Or just make it a rail bus for each
19:35:30  <planetmaker> small capacity, cannot be coupled anywhere
19:35:37  <planetmaker> but useful for small commuter services
19:35:52  <planetmaker> I like that. Rail buses :-) For all track types
19:37:08  <DJNekkid> hmm! :)
19:40:54  <DJNekkid> but yea, the 2cc set could get native support...
19:43:36  <DJNekkid> well... partytime! :D
19:43:40  <DJNekkid> tty 2morrow :)
19:43:45  <planetmaker> :-) Enjoy!
19:43:51  <DJNekkid> most likely :)
19:43:56  <planetmaker> And greetings to your wife :-)
19:44:10  <DJNekkid> back to you :)
19:44:15  * planetmaker waves
19:52:00  <Ammler> planetmaker: another feature request
19:52:20  <Ammler> if the md5 file is there, do the check yourself
19:52:31  <Ammler> and let it fail if it doesn't match...
19:56:24  <planetmaker> Ammler: but... that is not necessarily good
19:56:39  <planetmaker> if I work on the repo. I exported a bundle_src and do not clean
19:56:49  <planetmaker> Then my next build with mods must not fail
19:57:05  <Ammler> well, that is why should add the version :-P
19:57:26  <Ammler> maybe somehow document it in the readme?
19:57:38  <planetmaker> version doesn't help with xxxM
19:57:43  <Ammler> so package maintainer are aware, why?
19:58:14  <planetmaker> document what? the use of the md5 file?
19:58:16  <planetmaker> yes
19:59:08  <Ammler> the issue you get, when you have same version with different md5sum
20:05:43  <planetmaker> ok
20:07:10  <Ammler> maybe adding a make check would do that :-)
20:09:53  <planetmaker> hm, yes. First the installdir issue, though
20:10:30  <Ammler> the whole thing is actually also quite nice to test nforenum and grfcodec
20:11:00  <Ammler> if those get update, obs automatically rebuilds opengfx and would check again
20:53:54  <planetmaker> installdir issue solved and pushed. For newgrf_makefile ;-)
20:59:49  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Example NewGRF Project - Revision 67: Cleanup: Unify output a bit <> || Example NewGRF Project - Revision 66: Change: Allow 'INSTALLDIR' again, but indicate it as deprec... <> || Example NewGRF Project - Revision 65: Change: Silence rm when it cannot find anything to delete <>
21:12:30  <welshdragon> aah, it's nice that BROS is back up and running again
21:13:00  <welshdragon> Sacro and I are having a nice debate about the GPL over in #bros
21:13:50  <Ammler> pro or contra?
21:14:00  <welshdragon> me pro Sacro contra
21:14:26  <welshdragon> he believes that bros (and other graphics sets) should be CC-BY-SA
21:15:00  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Bug #779 (New): Sugarmine and Toyfactory animation glitch (Fix attached) <> || OpenGFX - Revision 316: Change: Update to makefile r67 <>
21:15:05  <Ammler> well, we don't stop you from it, but it is stupid
21:15:20  <Ammler> if you provide the source, I see no reason for CC
21:15:40  <Ammler> CC license is good for things wihtout "sources"
21:15:44  <Ammler> like songs and images
21:15:53  <welshdragon> and that is in breach of the GPL as 'it's providing binaries with stating the licence or provision of source code' even though it's a test grf
21:16:45  <welshdragon> the source is easy. it's on the forums, and the code will hopefully be on the devzone
21:16:54  <Ammler> the big advantage of gpl is, that if someone uses it, he has to provide his sources
21:17:14  <Ammler> if he uses CC, he don't need, so you can get advantage of
21:17:53  <Ammler> CC for grfs is good for people who develop alone
21:18:02  <Ammler> like Geroge or Pikka or MB
21:18:03  <welshdragon> yeah, we as a team agreed that GPL is best for our set, as we are a team
21:18:24  <Ammler> but as soon, as you public your source, you should make it GPL
21:19:55  <Ammler> again, license something as CC but publish the source is STUPID
21:20:52  <Ammler> and developing a project in a community and not publish the source is even more STUPID
21:21:13  <planetmaker> :-) yeah
21:21:39  <Ammler> I hope it is obvious "why?" :-)
21:22:04  <planetmaker> if you provide source anyway... then it can be GPL. Gives you the advantage that you lay open all derived code
21:22:12  <planetmaker> Concerning graphics there's no difference
21:22:34  * welshdragon nods
21:22:43  <Ammler> if you use CC but publish the source, you harm only yourself
21:22:52  <welshdragon> all the source graphics is on our forums
21:22:59  <welshdragon> for the public to view
21:23:07  <Ammler> oh well
21:23:24  <welshdragon> so that's why we use gPL
21:23:33  <welshdragon> and not CC-BY-SA
21:23:49  <planetmaker> The main difference is the NFO: GPL requires to publish that. CC-whatever not.
21:23:58  <planetmaker> And non-public code is your main problem anyway
21:24:05  <welshdragon> yeah
21:24:15  <planetmaker> as anyone needed to start anew. GPL saves that hassle for the future
21:24:26  <welshdragon> I'll mention that to the coders
21:24:30  <Ammler> the only CC license I would use is CC-ND
21:24:39  <welshdragon> (after upgrading the forums
21:25:10  <Ammler> everything else doesn't make sense to me
21:25:24  <Ammler> but then I do _not_ publish the source :-)
21:26:24  *** simozzz has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
21:28:48  <Ammler> welshdragon: just in case, if bros is using the Makefile from pm, they need to license it GPL
21:29:06  <Ammler> or buy a special license from him, which I don't know how much that costs ;-)
21:29:16  <PeterT> bros is on the devzone now?
21:29:22  <welshdragon> yes
21:29:30  <welshdragon> has been since the star
21:29:33  <welshdragon> +t
21:30:08  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Snowline mod - Revision 9: Change [Makefile]: Update makefile to r67 <> || Nutracks - Revision 31: Change [Makefile]: Update makefile to r67 <> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 218: Change [Makefile]: Update makefile to r67 <> || Climate dependant airports - Revision 30: Change [Makefile]: Update makefile to r67 <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 600: Change [Makefile]: Update makefile to r67 <> || 2cc train set - Revision 477: Change [Makefile]: Update makefile to r67 <>
21:30:29  <PeterT> It always cuts off the last one, doesn't it
21:30:56  <Ammler> well, it is fine
21:31:10  <Ammler> so a commit spree doesn't spam the channel ;-)
21:32:09  <Ammler>
21:32:24  <Ammler> or add the rss feed to your newsreader
21:34:24  <welshdragon> can Webster come on to #bros please?
21:34:41  <welshdragon> it'd be nice to have him back...
21:35:11  <simozzz> Hello, I get that public key, what should I do next?
21:35:13  <PeterT> he was there before?
21:35:16  <Ammler> welshdragon: that was brot
21:35:30  <PeterT> welshdragon, contact KenjiE20 for things about the bot
21:35:31  <welshdragon> aah
21:35:40  <PeterT> Oh, right, brot
21:35:51  <Ammler> currently we have on devzone bot anymore
21:35:59  <Ammler> no*
21:36:30  <welshdragon> :(
21:41:43  <planetmaker> hello simozzz
21:41:54  <planetmaker> you need to give the pulic key to me :-)
21:42:12  <planetmaker> (and keep your private key secret ;-) )
21:42:23  <simozzz> How can I do it?
21:42:34  <planetmaker> should do
21:42:42  <planetmaker> or forum mail
21:42:52  <planetmaker> preferably paste
21:43:27  <planetmaker> other question: do you then plan to use mercurial as your version control system?
21:44:52  <simozzz> done.
21:46:19  <planetmaker> link?
21:46:21  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: British Rail OpenTTD Set - Support #780 (New): Forums Upgrade <>
21:47:07  <Ammler> hehe
21:47:23  <Ammler> you might first need to speak about deve environment :-)
21:48:45  <Ammler> welshdragon: we told you already, the devzone does also have a forum...
21:48:52  <Ammler> ?
21:49:24  <welshdragon> Ammler: i'm happy having them on my own server
21:49:44  <welshdragon> (eventually they'll go on to a Virtual Machine)
21:49:56  <Ammler> welshdragon:
21:50:26  <welshdragon> Ammler: yes, yes, but we already have them on my own server
21:52:37  <planetmaker> nvm, found the pasted stuff
21:52:54  *** simozzz has quit IRC
21:54:54  <planetmaker> oh well.
21:57:27  *** simozzz has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
21:57:36  <PeterT> Oh well.
21:58:46  <simozzz> sthg wrong with connection... Planetmaker, have you recieved it?
21:59:59  <planetmaker> yes, I found it
22:00:23  <planetmaker> question is: do you know your way around with mercurial?
22:01:21  <simozzz> I've changed .ini
22:02:10  <planetmaker> uhm... which ini?
22:02:38  <simozzz>
22:03:44  <planetmaker> ah, ok :-)
22:05:45  <planetmaker> Ok, I initialized a (empty) repo on the server
22:06:16  <planetmaker> have you added to your Mercurial.ini the section with [ui] ?
22:06:56  <planetmaker> or actually similar to the "All changes" as proposed on the bottom of the page you linked?
22:07:07  <planetmaker> then we *should* be ready to go
22:07:58  <simozzz> Almost like "All changes", but some strings missed.
22:09:32  <planetmaker> ok, the problem I now have is that I never really used tortoiseHG myself, but let's try;
22:09:46  <planetmaker> there must be somewhere a way to clone an existing repository
22:09:51  <simozzz> Strings like "merge = kdiff3" and "vdiff = vdiff", or I can't ind them there...
22:10:33  <PeterT> anyone here good with AV?
22:10:39  <planetmaker> You can just put them there, simozzz
22:10:39  <PeterT> who can help me in #avignon?
22:10:42  <planetmaker> Just add them
22:14:41  <simozzz> what's next?
22:15:20  <planetmaker> try to pull the empty repo as described <-- there
22:16:05  <planetmaker> hg clone ssh://
22:18:21  *** Avignon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
22:18:31  <PeterT> Ok, so Avignon works
22:18:34  <PeterT> now, how do I start OpenTTD?
22:20:15  <planetmaker> PeterT: two people know that: Osai and  dihedral
22:20:34  <PeterT> planetmaker, and PeterT
22:20:39  <PeterT> i just figured it out
22:20:45  <planetmaker> good.
22:20:45  <PeterT> "plugin load OpenTTD"
22:21:49  <PeterT> Avignon, start openttd
22:23:11  *** Avignon has quit IRC
22:29:31  <Ammler> then write docs
22:29:41  <simozzz> I've cloned and pulled xussr repo.
22:31:32  *** Frankr has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
22:36:44  <simozzz> I'm off to bed. Bye.
22:37:00  *** simozzz has quit IRC
22:45:15  *** ODM has quit IRC
22:48:15  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: #openttdcoop - Membership #778 (Closed): Applying for project: xUSSRset <>
23:03:47  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Revision 317: Doc: Update building and contributing sections a bit <>
23:43:50  <Rubidium> Ammler, planetmaker, anyone open??x related: can I commit+push the description language updates?
23:44:04  <planetmaker> go right ahead
23:47:29  <Rubidium> okay, pushed
23:48:15  <Rubidium> <- don't like the first few lines; up to Cleaning it's a make clean, the rest is a simple make
23:48:32  <Rubidium> I'm using dash as shell, i.e. not bash
23:48:44  <Rubidium> i.e. you're using bashisms
23:49:24  <planetmaker> he. obviously...
23:50:09  <planetmaker> could you post the output with _V= as parameter please?
23:50:51  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenSFX - Revision 75: -Update: African, Arabic, Catalan, Danish, Estonian, Greek and Norwegian (... <> || OpenMSX - Revision 20: -Update: African, Arabic, Catalan, Danish, Estonian, Greek and Norwegian (... <> || OpenGFX - Revision 318: -Update: African, Arabic, Catalan, Danish, Estonian, Greek and Norwegian ... <>
23:51:17  <Rubidium> planetmaker: updated
23:51:48  *** V453000 is now known as Guest537
23:52:17  <planetmaker> thanks
23:52:53  <planetmaker> I guess a line like "[ -e blub ] && echo "found" || echo "not found" doesn't parse, right?
23:53:12  <planetmaker> (without the first quotation mark)
23:53:14  <Ammler> Rubidium: if I may ask, what is the advantage of dash? Or is that just personal preference?
23:54:27  <Rubidium> Ammler: it's default with new Debian installs
23:54:35  <Rubidium> the problem seems to be ==
23:55:01  <Ammler> yeah, reading wikipedia about
23:55:02  <planetmaker> the line I quoted works?
23:55:09  <Ammler> seems also default on ubutunt
23:55:16  <Ammler> ubuntu
23:55:50  <Ammler> compacter than bash -> a bit faster
23:56:20  <Rubidium> $ [ -e blub ] && echo "found" || echo "not found"
23:56:20  <Rubidium> not found
23:57:25  <planetmaker> ok :-)
23:58:53  <Rubidium> <- solves the problem + removes some trailing whitespace
23:58:56  <Ammler> dash seems to be exclusive debian
23:59:07  <Ammler> not installed on suse and not available
23:59:35  <Rubidium> Ammler: nevertheless, /bin/sh is sh. It's not bash
23:59:50  <Rubidium> especially because you define shell in the makefile to be /bin/sh

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