Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 26th March 2010:
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08:12:20  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 44: Fix: Add the credits to the readme <>
08:28:22  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Example NewGRF Project - Feature #867 (Assigned): Allow support for custom txt rules <>
08:36:16  <Rubidium> msx doesn't compile anymore (make clean && make: *** No rule to make target `docs/license.txt', needed by `openmsx-nightly'.  Stop.)
08:43:25  <planetmaker> he. bad
08:44:56  <planetmaker> did you clean before?
08:45:19  <planetmaker> ah... docs. sorry, nvm
08:49:11  <planetmaker> should be fixed now
08:50:28  <Rubidium> yeah, that seems to work
08:51:49  <planetmaker> though that stuff will need some refinement at a later stage. It's a bit ugly now.
09:00:16  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 45: Fix (r44): [Makefile] doc files were not found properly <>
09:32:31  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 280: Change: several angles complete for Henningsdorf ele... <>
09:48:31  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 282: Change: tweaks to tram sprites, wagon display rules <> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 281: Change: tweaked offsets, finished angles for Henning... <>
10:04:33  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 283: Change: added trolley poles for Kreuzberg Tram <>
10:20:35  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 46: Change: Wrap the readme at 80 chars and update it a bit. <>
11:08:41  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 284: Change: pantographs and depot view for Henningsdorf ... <>
11:56:47  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 285: Change: some tweaks to Henningsdorf electric tram <>
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12:12:51  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 47: Change: Align the list of credits a bit better <>
12:17:11  <Rubidium> no full names (if possible) like in OpenGFX?
12:19:05  <Ammler> planetmaker: is a fan of anonymous entries ;-)
12:22:29  <planetmaker> hm, possible, But I don't know them everywhere :-)
12:23:14  <planetmaker> Due to popular demand I might add them then to the next version :-)
12:24:12  <planetmaker> hm, maybe I should add my name to OpenGFX ;-)
12:24:34  <planetmaker> Meanwhile it became a truely selling point, also in RL :-P
12:24:40  <Ammler> or you should anonymize too :-P
12:24:48  <planetmaker> yeah
12:25:02  <Ammler> like andy ;-)
12:25:44  <Ammler> we could think about resorting the credits list there
12:25:53  <Ammler> as reverse order seems odd
12:25:58  <Ammler> (for some)
12:26:06  <planetmaker> Well... guess who wanted revers order?
12:26:10  <Ammler> me :-P
12:26:16  <Ammler> no, not me
12:26:21  <Ammler> but I was the cause for it
12:26:47  <Ammler> of course, if we resort, we use Realnames
12:27:31  <Ammler> Real Name (Nick)
12:27:44  <Ammler> or Real "Nick" Name
12:27:45  <planetmaker> Of course we keep nick names as OpenTTD does ;-)
12:27:55  <planetmaker> At least they determin sorting ;-)
12:27:58  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - OpenMSX 0.2.1 released <>
12:32:08  <planetmaker> Added request for real names to my posting in the tt-forums
12:41:03  <planetmaker> Ammler, are you actually working on anything in OpenGFX?
12:41:30  <planetmaker> or do you plan to add anything before 0.2.2?
12:41:41  <Ammler> no
12:41:50  <Ammler> and no
12:41:53  <planetmaker> :-)
12:42:09  <Ammler> not sure about the uk signals
12:42:40  <planetmaker> Well... if you like, you can add it. Till Sunday night :-)
12:42:42  <Ammler> nobody gave feedback, that Born Acorns signals are better...
12:42:58  <planetmaker> Dunno, though
12:43:09  <Ammler> as i never use that type :-)
12:43:53  <Ammler> it is a lot work right now...
12:45:32  <planetmaker> yeah... so better something to try after the release
12:46:12  <planetmaker> as are the vehicles with improved headlights and the reworked rail engines and wagons.
12:48:47  <Ammler> planetmaker:
12:50:39  <planetmaker> hm, yes...
12:50:56  <Ammler> :-)
12:51:46  <planetmaker> can you give me the lines, though?
12:52:04  <planetmaker> waterfeatures
12:52:55  <Ammler> I should have linked it there...
12:53:05  <planetmaker> yes :-P
12:53:32  <Ammler> and since we splitted the files, you can view it on devzone directly ;-)
12:54:37  <planetmaker> Honestly I'm not sure how well that behaves, if one comes up with a newgrf which has sprites for rivers, canals and locks
12:54:59  <Ammler> yeah
12:55:09  <Ammler> I just mentioned that we use Action2 already
12:55:29  <planetmaker> but it's the only place. And the least likely to be changed by newgrfs. I know none except one
12:55:32  <Ammler> hmm, we could check that with MB rivers
12:55:40  <planetmaker> ^
12:57:17  <Ammler> works fine for rivers
12:57:29  <Ammler> it shows the MB rivers with the newgrf
12:57:36  <planetmaker> Please add that piece of information to the tracker :-)
12:57:38  <Ammler> which is perfectly fine, imo
12:58:25  <Ammler> hmm, the mb rivers are indeed better
12:58:28  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Feature #758 (Rejected): ogfx1_base: 1467:1469 old offices <>
12:58:56  <Ammler> (can I reject my own tickets, btw.?)
12:59:09  <Ammler> or should I simply close those :-)
12:59:09  <planetmaker> yes, you can. But has it become obsolete?
12:59:18  <planetmaker> To my knowledge the new sprites don't support recolour
12:59:27  <Ammler> the do, the roofs
12:59:32  <planetmaker> oh
12:59:32  <Ammler> well, dunno all
12:59:47  <Ammler> before it was randomly
13:00:13  <Ammler> now they bahave kind of intended
13:00:19  <Ammler> nice, imo
13:00:47  <Ammler> what still stays is the question, if we will replace UK houses with TTD style houses in general
13:01:08  <Ammler> but that can then become a new ticket...
13:01:08  <planetmaker> not in general
13:01:25  <planetmaker> but climate specific ;-)
13:01:40  <Ammler> yes, no uk houses in tropic :-)
13:01:40  <planetmaker> I'm not sure how much overlap there is, though
13:02:00  <Ammler> well, that shouldn't be an issue, Action7
13:02:15  <Ammler> same as the trains already
13:02:30  <planetmaker> yes, I know. I just wanted to say that I don't know the amount of sprites needed.
13:06:46  <planetmaker> but maybe you can make another review of the current state of the set in general, for something which might be a show stopper
13:07:28  <planetmaker> otherwise I might be tempted to do the release before Sunday even.
13:15:02  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Feature #698: snowy sprites for oil wells missing <>
13:24:34  <andythenorth> planetmaker: make: *** No rule to make target `sprites/nfo/industrial_trams/kreuzberg_tram.pnfo.pnfo', needed by `sprites/nfo/heqs.pnfo'.  Stop.
13:24:40  <andythenorth> recurrent issue when I add afile
13:24:52  <andythenorth> goes away if I delete makefile.dep
13:25:16  <planetmaker> and does it re-appear?
13:25:18  <andythenorth> nvm, that one's a typo
13:25:28  <andythenorth> m)
13:25:43  <planetmaker> the advantage of a dep check :-)
13:25:52  <andythenorth> hmm
13:25:56  <andythenorth> it wasn't the type
13:25:59  <andythenorth> typo
13:26:08  <planetmaker> .pnfo.pnfo sounds wrong
13:26:13  <andythenorth> it was :)
13:26:22  <andythenorth> but I still had to delete makefile.dep
13:26:35  <planetmaker> run make depend
13:29:09  <Ammler> <-- why 2 times?
13:29:18  <Ammler> planetmaker: ^
13:30:27  <planetmaker> why not? :-P
13:30:30  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 287: Change: split some more tram templates <> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 286: Change: split some trams into separate templates <>
13:31:05  <planetmaker> well... it shouldn't, sure
13:31:13  <Ammler> thanks ;-)
13:31:36  <planetmaker> what did you call to get that output?
13:31:50  <Ammler> hg clone opengfx
13:31:56  <Ammler> and then what you see
13:32:07  <planetmaker> what do I use?
13:32:16  <Ammler> use?
13:32:38  <planetmaker> uhm... :-P Those who can read are at an advantage ;-) (referring to myself)
13:33:08  <Ammler> the idea of the new compile system: hg clone <repo>
13:34:23  <Ammler> cp ../<repo>/.dz/ ./<repo>/ && tar -c <repo>.tar <repo>
13:34:57  <Ammler> then the chroot will run
13:35:21  <Ammler> that way, we can make individual compile scripts
13:35:29  <planetmaker> interesting. It doesn't call it twice, if I run mrproper and then bundle_zip
13:35:40  <planetmaker> why do we need individual compile scripts?
13:35:44  <planetmaker> make and be done
13:36:00  <Ammler> I don't trust you :-P
13:36:43  <Ammler> the compile script is like the "old" Makefile.nightly
13:39:38  <Ammler> I need a script I can run in the chroot
13:39:48  <planetmaker> you can run make in the chroot
13:39:59  <planetmaker> Honestly, it's not a good thing to write separate build script another time
13:40:19  <Ammler> well, just calls make
13:40:24  <Ammler> what is the issue then?
13:40:53  <planetmaker> And the difference to now?
13:41:13  <Ammler> there is no now, as we don't have a chroot now
13:41:47  <Ammler> the compile script is quite huge currently
13:41:55  <planetmaker> Right. IMHO just as important is that one could trigger a release build which then automatically is uploaded to the releases dir of the project
13:42:01  <Ammler> hmm, sill not everyhitng doable by make...
13:42:12  <planetmaker> make can basically do everything ;-)
13:42:29  <Ammler>
13:43:31  <planetmaker> I actually thought of re-adding a release target. Which then calls bundle_zip, bundle_src and creates the md5 files for them
13:43:39  <Ammler> for example extracting the compiled nfo
13:43:45  <planetmaker> yeah
13:44:02  <Ammler> writing the logs
13:44:09  <planetmaker> :-)
13:44:25  <planetmaker> Well, yes, that's both a genuine CF task and issue
13:44:53  <planetmaker> And as said, a big step forward would be generation of the release files.
13:45:11  <Ammler> yes, that should done too
13:45:13  <planetmaker> or the possbility to do so. It should still require a trigger and not be an automatic process
13:45:31  <Ammler> well the trigger is pushing a tag
13:45:34  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 289: Change: invisible sprites for trams no longer use fo... <> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 288: Change: shortened class life for Kreuzberg tram <>
13:45:37  <planetmaker> trigger in the sense of the author explicitly telling "build vXYZ"
13:46:00  <planetmaker> well... probably would do.
13:46:37  <planetmaker> The only problem I see is in those cases where not sufficient care is taken: where md5sums of CF and author differ and as a result versions on bananas and CF differ
13:46:38  <Ammler> well, could then also be configured in .dz :-(
13:46:48  <Ammler> s/:-(/:-)/
13:46:54  <planetmaker> :-P
13:47:36  <planetmaker> I always wonder how you get the smileys wrong ;-)
13:47:59  <Ammler> that is if I am not straight to the keyboard...
13:48:29  <Ammler> then sometimes, I hit the key beside
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13:56:50  <Ammler> the other issue I have, FILENAME isn't always REPO
13:56:54  <Ammler> but mostly
14:00:41  <Ammler> [14:46] <planetmaker> The only problem I see is in those cases where not sufficient care is taken: where md5sums of CF and author differ and as a result versions on bananas and CF differ <-- you should use the zip from the CF on bananas
14:03:05  <Ammler> make bundle_zip ZIP="7za a" ZIP_FLAGS="-tzip -mx9" VERBOSE=1 <-- shouldn't that make output more VERBOSE?
14:03:23  <Rubidium> _V= ?
14:03:30  <Rubidium> (or is that grfcodec?)
14:04:18  <Ammler> ah indeed _V it is :-)
14:04:41  <Ammler> so VERBOSE is openttd Makefile?
14:04:59  <Rubidium> yep
14:06:05  <planetmaker> I *think* I took that abbreviation from either the make manual - or from grfcodec / nforenum make file. Dunno which
14:06:11  <Ammler> <-- this is why it is twice...
14:06:17  <planetmaker> Easy to make VERBOSE an alias for _V though
14:06:39  <Ammler> iirc, I saw VERBOSE in the Fedora spec
14:06:45  <Ammler> but might be from openttd spec
14:07:35  <planetmaker> but VERBOSE would make all those lines quite long ;-)
14:07:51  <Ammler> _V is fine
14:07:56  <Ammler> I was just confused
14:08:08  <Ammler> you see the double call?
14:08:18  <Ammler> after the touch thing again
14:08:52  <planetmaker> hm.
14:09:59  <Rubidium> guess that after building Makefile.dep it's including itself, finds that what Makefile.dep depends upon has changed and builds Makefile.dep again
14:10:22  <Ammler> grfcodec should really have a switch to supress the process
14:10:43  <planetmaker> it should not report the progress unless there's errors.
14:10:46  <Rubidium> Ammler: just don't provide a tty stdout
14:11:47  <Ammler> well, I would like to see it when it happens, and not a long nothing and the grep the logs...
14:11:47  <planetmaker> but posix compliant output in the first place is nicer ;-)
14:12:18  <Rubidium> Ammler: if you pipe the output into a log the progress should not be shown
14:12:25  <Ammler> I know
14:12:43  <Ammler> it is just boring for debugging...
14:13:03  <Rubidium> make|less
14:13:12  <Ammler> then you lose the error
14:13:12  <Rubidium> gives you insta-search too
14:13:39  <Rubidium> well, then write a patch for it
14:13:54  <Ammler> your patch did it :-P
14:14:00  <Ammler> -s iirc
14:14:33  <Rubidium> don't remember that
14:14:34  <planetmaker> <-- Ammler that *should* stop the double-building
14:14:55  <planetmaker> s/building/make depend/
14:16:38  <planetmaker> hm, no good idea. There was a reason for the touch
14:16:40  <Ammler> doesn't apply
14:17:08  <planetmaker> r399
14:17:29  <Ammler> yes, hg clone does automatically get tip
14:17:42  <Ammler> I do clone everytime fresh
14:17:55  <Rubidium> planetmaker: and that reason is?
14:17:58  <Ammler> to be sure the repo itself is fine
14:18:22  <planetmaker> Rubidium, with that patch it doesn't re-build the respective grf, if I touch a pcx file
14:19:04  <Rubidium> odd
14:19:58  <planetmaker>
14:21:17  <Rubidium> so the main files should get those pcxes and pnfos as dependencies
14:21:43  <Rubidium> because touching the pnfos always means dependency rebuilding
14:23:14  <planetmaker> well... but in theory it should work via a chain, shouldn't it?
14:29:56  <Rubidium> apparantly not :(
14:30:37  <Rubidium> it needs to depend directly on the pcx
14:31:15  <Rubidium> because otherwise it doesn't "see" that it needs to rebuild
14:31:26  <Rubidium> "it" being the grf
14:32:08  <Rubidium> hmm, or you rebuild the nfo if the pcx changed... would that be a bad thing?
14:43:36  <planetmaker> of course not. But the same thing would then apply to sub-pnfo files and so on
14:44:01  <planetmaker> Which basically leads then again to: the main pnfo file depends on all of its sub files, whether directly or indirectly included, directly
14:47:57  <Ammler> planetmaker: any idea, how I could guess the type to build?
14:48:16  <Ammler> grf, sfx, msx or whatever
14:48:27  <Ammler> without adding my own configs...
14:50:02  <Ammler> I hoped, you are using differnet Makefiles like Makefile.grf Makefile.sound or so
14:51:48  <Ammler> FILE_INC_EXTENSIONS = wav <-- maybe this:
14:52:52  <planetmaker> Ammler, that's no indicator :-) It's a default ;-)
14:53:07  <Ammler> but how do you differ, what you need to build?
14:53:12  <planetmaker> And the whole point of some of the rewrite actually was to unify things...
14:53:28  <planetmaker> I differ in the Makefile.config. MAIN_TARGET
14:54:03  <planetmaker> (which also could be main_targets actually ;-)
14:54:12  <planetmaker> if you want to have more than one newgrf there.
14:54:30  <Ammler> for newgrfs, that is a grf
14:54:41  <Ammler> hmm
14:55:02  <planetmaker> yes. And for base sets it's the o?? file.
14:55:15  <Ammler> so I could grep that line
14:55:27  <planetmaker> yes. And then extract the extension(s)
14:55:38  <Ammler> and decide then, which chroot/dependencies to uswe
14:56:11  <planetmaker> in principle yes. But you could just depend on the default stuff.
14:56:40  <planetmaker> it's all there on our CF anyway.
14:57:01  <planetmaker> and who cares whether there's an unneeded grfcodec depended upon?
14:57:13  <planetmaker> (or catcodec or renum)
14:57:25  <planetmaker> the other deps are always the same.
14:58:27  <Ammler> well, we don't need python for grf or sfx
14:58:41  <planetmaker> we need hg
14:58:51  <Ammler> true :-P
14:58:54  <planetmaker> and for grfs you need python
14:59:18  <planetmaker> not all, but one or two :-)
14:59:53  <planetmaker> and... python might become even a much stronger dependency :-)
15:00:15  <Ammler> you mean for building wihtout hg too?
15:00:40  <planetmaker> I rather mean the python2nfo pre-processor Yexo has in the pipe ;-)
15:01:48  <Ammler> hmm, you could add a wizzard to your example grf
15:03:00  <planetmaker> a wizard?
15:03:14  <planetmaker> you mean like ./configure ? :-)
15:03:17  <planetmaker> Not a bad idea actually
15:03:27  <Ammler> a tool to start a new project or add a grf to a existing project
15:03:54  <Ammler> which queries names and such
15:03:55  <planetmaker> Though in principle you "just" need to adopt Makefile.config
15:03:57  <Ammler> urls
15:04:03  <planetmaker> But yeah :-)
15:04:24  <planetmaker> That'd be MUCH more comfortable :-)
15:04:32  <Ammler> pmMagic help
15:04:33  <planetmaker> also automatically writing the action8 :-)
15:04:36  <planetmaker> :-P
15:04:46  <planetmaker> Nah, that will be included in the python2nfo project.
15:05:48  <planetmaker> python might actually a good thing to just write that script in... hm. yes
15:07:32  <Ammler> geektoo uses a strange location for the nfo
15:07:58  <planetmaker> what is it?
15:08:05  <Ammler> not sprites
15:08:19  <Ammler> there is no nfo in the nightly folder
15:08:22  <planetmaker> sprites is a silly requirement of grfcodec
15:09:55  <Ammler> is it possible I get the file name without extracting it from the zip?
15:10:08  <Rubidium> 7z -t <zip> ?
15:10:17  <Ammler> FILENAME=$(ls *.zip 2>/dev/null | cut -f1 -d.)
15:13:07  <planetmaker> Hm... I wonder whether arctic could use Swedish houses ;-)
16:14:24  <andythenorth> it's GPL, and they're nice sprites...
16:14:48  <planetmaker> :-) True. Still it'd be nice to ask
16:15:12  <andythenorth> Ask Irwe then :)
16:15:15  <planetmaker> and more important whether people think it's a good idea :-)
16:25:16  <Ammler> hmm
16:25:32  <Ammler> you could ask him to make houses for it :-P
16:25:50  <Ammler> or which one to use instead...
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16:26:20  <Ammler> I do btw. not very much like the house from irwe we use in tropic
16:26:38  <Ammler> it is fully out of scale imo
16:27:34  <Ammler> planetmaker: how do you plan to code the OpenGFX+?
16:27:54  <Ammler> own project? or a additional newgrf in opengfx?
16:30:19  <Rubidium> at least a new project for bananas
16:31:03  <Ammler> well, I guess, easiest might be to use 2cc project
16:32:19  <Ammler> and pimp up teh templates a bit :-)
16:34:05  <Ammler> OpenGFX+ can use 32px without problems. <-- tunnel gltich?
16:34:52  <Ammler> planetmaker: the templates should be prepared now
16:35:13  <Ammler> as he already annouced to work on the other views ;-)
16:37:52  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 292: Feature: 'big tram' <> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 291: Change: setup tram wagon 3 <> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 290: Change: introduced Ishizuchi tram <>
16:38:00  <Ammler> or we tell him to use pikka templates...
16:40:51  <Ammler> DJNekkid: what you think?
16:44:27  <DJNekkid> sorry, been afk
16:44:28  <DJNekkid> about what?
16:45:27  <Ammler> about OpenGFX+ vehicle set
16:45:35  <DJNekkid> i just looked at it!
16:45:36  <DJNekkid> love it!
16:45:49  <Ammler> and how would you code it?
16:46:00  <DJNekkid> personally?
16:46:20  <Ammler> hmm, don't care :-P
16:46:29  <DJNekkid> somewhat like the 2cc set...
16:46:49  <DJNekkid> want me to set up the needed templates?
16:47:05  <DJNekkid> basicly 2...
16:47:07  <Ammler> maybe you could pimp up the 2cc templates?
16:47:14  <DJNekkid> engine and MUs
16:47:14  <Ammler> with a bit comments
16:47:19  <DJNekkid> sure can ...
16:47:23  <DJNekkid> but basicly its pimp down :)
16:47:44  <Ammler> whatever ;-)
16:48:11  <Ammler> just so a "drawer" know, which row is for which view
16:48:22  <planetmaker> Ammler, I asked each of them to use Pikkas templates. More than once.
16:48:28  <DJNekkid> oh, you ment the gfx templates?
16:48:35  <planetmaker> I do give up on asking
16:48:42  <Ammler> planetmaker: does it work with those?
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16:48:51  <planetmaker> Those do work, yes
16:48:57  <planetmaker> I use them already in OpenGFX
16:49:04  <DJNekkid> there is 1 problem with pikkas templates
16:49:21  <Ammler> you need 10 pcx per train
16:49:31  <DJNekkid> no...
16:49:38  <planetmaker> No depot view ;-)
16:49:39  <DJNekkid> they are often to low
16:49:57  <planetmaker> yes, I noticed that. I was about to add higher ones
16:50:01  <Ammler> but that might mean, it doesn't glitch on tunnels?
16:50:10  <planetmaker> When I'm going to implement the arctic trains
16:50:12  <DJNekkid> clue is
16:50:16  <DJNekkid> anything without a panto is fine
16:50:19  <DJNekkid> usually
16:51:52  <Ammler> planetmaker: if you use the pikka templates, you need somewhat a plan how to compine those
16:52:02  <Ammler> combine*
16:52:28  <planetmaker> in how far combine?
16:52:40  <Ammler> front engine - waggon - rear
16:52:53  <Ammler> and depot view
16:52:55  <planetmaker> it mostly works out-of-the box with those
16:53:14  <planetmaker> The depot view isn't in them
16:53:42  <planetmaker> but among themselves, their alignment is fine
16:53:46  <Ammler> hmm, you mean buy menu view, I guess
16:53:53  <planetmaker> yes, sorry
16:54:38  <Ammler> and if the 32px does only gltich in depots, I could very well life with that
16:54:46  <Ammler> also with "standard" trains
16:55:19  <planetmaker> it really looks ugly in depots. I don't want that.
16:55:21  <Ammler> I always thought, we do that shortening because of tunnel glitch
16:55:37  <planetmaker> yes, I thought so, too. Until I noticed it with the depots :-)
16:55:41  <planetmaker> That's far worse.
16:56:10  <Ammler> that is really POV :-P
16:56:38  <planetmaker> you haven't really seen truncated steam engines.
16:56:40  <Ammler> or how you call that
16:56:58  <planetmaker> Missing head lights and half of the driver's cabin
16:57:13  <Ammler> planetmaker: because I watch trains on the map instead in the depot
16:57:50  <Ammler> well, it is fine, would just be nice, we could also fix the tunnel glitch
16:58:34  <Ammler> the depot view could also reported to openttd maybe...
16:58:54  <Rubidium> hahah
16:59:00  <Ammler> :-D
16:59:13  <planetmaker> :-D
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16:59:34  <DJ_Nekkid> looks like my server crashed, or i cant reach it atm
16:59:35  <DJ_Nekkid> but;
16:59:40  <planetmaker> It *would* be nice, but yeah :-)
16:59:57  <DJ_Nekkid> showing 32px in the depot is just a normal "general action0"
16:59:58  <planetmaker> I don't know how many pandora boxes that would open
17:00:14  <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid, and in a base set I have exactly 0 action0 available.
17:00:24  <Rubidium> problem with the depot view is that it's probably fixed by setting that I want 32px long wagons bit, but I fear that doesn't work for the base graphics
17:00:44  <DJ_Nekkid> but arent we talking about "opengfx+" now?
17:00:59  <DJ_Nekkid> and Rubidium: isnt there anything "you" (devs) can doa bout that?
17:00:59  <planetmaker> Rubidium, yes, I cannot use action0, I guess. Hm.. I didn't try in extra actually... Maybe I should :-)
17:00:59  <Ammler> we were talking about the 32px glitch
17:01:05  <Rubidium> and making the original graphics and any NewGRF that doesn't use the 32px bit look odd because we 'force' it for all is probably not a good idea either
17:01:39  <planetmaker> Rubidium, doesn't the depot view know the sprite width?
17:02:15  <planetmaker> Well, I'll try an action0 for engines/wagons in the extra newgrf.
17:02:21  <planetmaker> That won't hurt. I think
17:02:34  <planetmaker> Just to set the 32px flag
17:02:44  <Ammler> hmm
17:03:00  <Ammler> Action0 isn't static, afaik
17:03:02  <planetmaker> I didn't think of doing that so far... as it sounds quite hellish.
17:03:14  <planetmaker> just because of that. ^
17:04:02  <planetmaker> Rubidium, is the assumption correct, that a base set newgrf will always be loaded first?
17:04:10  <planetmaker> Thus that any newgrf will override it?
17:04:17  <planetmaker> in all cases?
17:04:29  <Rubidium> planetmaker: the depot view doesn't know the sprite sizes
17:04:40  <Rubidium> planetmaker: the base set is always loaded first
17:04:55  <Rubidium> (except in the case of the very old opengfx stuff)
17:05:06  <Rubidium> ((but then, that's not a base set))
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17:05:47  <planetmaker> well, yes :-) So I guess I could give it a try...
17:06:05  <planetmaker> Setting that property doesn't affect game behaviour as far as I'm aware.
17:08:22  <planetmaker> but then... I could also set the 2cc flag
17:10:53  <planetmaker> in any case, that'd need careful testing
17:15:23  <Ammler> planetmaker: you mean enabling 2cc for the existing engines?
17:15:29  <planetmaker> yes
17:16:02  <planetmaker> IF we have the appropriate sprites AND it doesn't lead to funny glitches.
17:16:04  <Ammler> I am still not sure about "functional" differences to the ttd original
17:16:13  <Ammler> same with rivers...
17:17:22  <Ammler> if we make a OpenGFX+, we could also consider to move all the non-default things to there
17:17:37  <planetmaker> There will be an OpenGFX+ :-)
17:18:49  <Ammler> btw. did you read my inital questions about?
17:19:13  <Ammler> is opengfx+ part of opengfx project?
17:19:31  <planetmaker> I don't know yet.
17:19:41  <planetmaker> I'm not sure whether it's sensible or not. Both makes sense
17:20:01  <Ammler> but the easiest from building view might be a own project
17:20:30  <planetmaker> yes. It's easiest in many ways. Except duplicating some graphics
17:20:38  <Ammler> as it would also work without opengfx, I assume
17:20:38  <planetmaker> So it's most probably the way to go.
17:20:46  <planetmaker> Of course it would.
17:21:15  <planetmaker> It just might not blend in so nicely.
17:21:23  <planetmaker> Just like some other sets do with the original :-P
17:21:46  <planetmaker> Though I think that an OpenGFX+ would just re-define all vehicles. Then it makes sense with all base sets.
17:21:57  <planetmaker> Those few sprites don't hurt. At least for the vehicles.
17:22:06  <Ammler> but then, it should be part of opengfx project
17:22:11  <planetmaker> hu?
17:22:24  <Ammler> if you need the sprites from there
17:22:24  <planetmaker> I just argued that it should work independent of it ;-)
17:22:31  <planetmaker> ah
17:23:50  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 32bpp-extra - Bug #868 (New): No dummy sprites at start? <>
17:24:12  <Ammler> I mean, we could then simply add a actionA with folloing a #include rail.pnfo
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17:24:35  <planetmaker> Yes. Something like that
17:25:06  <planetmaker> but then it doesn't hurt to just copy that.
17:25:15  <planetmaker> But exactly that's why I'm not yet decided ;-)
17:30:40  <Ammler> well, it depense, if you will support it with the Makefile framework
17:30:48  <Ammler> make opengfxplus.grf
17:31:33  <planetmaker> that'd be the other solution. But then there's no nice way for make bundle_zip and so on. Also very ugly
17:32:04  <Ammler> that is why it is up2you :-)
17:32:16  <Ammler> or just a subdir?
17:32:32  <planetmaker> hm.... *that* actually might be THE solution
17:32:43  <planetmaker> just call the make in that sub dir.
17:33:20  <planetmaker> One thing though then changes: make a commit to opengfx+ and you change the version of opengfx ;-)
17:33:33  <Ammler> why does that hurt?
17:34:04  <Ammler> well, the nightly build doesn't like it either...
17:34:36  <planetmaker> It doesn't exactly hurt
17:34:39  <Ammler> hmm
17:35:04  <Ammler> what about you create a folder "build" where you insert the things you build
17:35:13  <planetmaker> hu?
17:35:18  <Ammler> then with make bundle* you use what is there
17:36:14  <Ammler> make bundle_zip
17:36:15  <planetmaker> I still don't understand
17:36:27  <Ammler> make opengfxplus.grf && make bundle_zip
17:36:36  <planetmaker> ah... hm...
17:36:51  <planetmaker> that'd remove the possibility to just start make bundle_zip and be fine
17:36:54  <Ammler> bundle* does only depend on folder "build"
17:37:14  <planetmaker> well. But there's not rule for the folder "build"
17:37:36  <Ammler> all?
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17:37:48  <Ammler> well
17:37:59  <planetmaker> and what should 'all' build in that case? a zip which contains both, base set and newgrf?
17:38:16  <Ammler> usually make install shouldn't depend on make all
17:38:27  <Ammler> they should be run seperately anyway
17:38:41  <Ammler> make && make install
17:38:47  <planetmaker> hm...
17:39:04  <Ammler> that is how rpm works, I would quite much bet, debian does it the same
17:39:07  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Feature #662: Rework trains <>
17:41:20  <Ammler> also because you run make install as root
17:41:42  <Ammler> except opengfx :-)
17:41:52  <planetmaker> :-)
17:42:07  <planetmaker> You could also run it as root. And use the shared dir...
17:42:09  <planetmaker> Hm.
17:42:50  <Ammler> I just mean, you don't use prefix
17:43:33  <Ammler> yes, that is how the package maintainers do it
17:44:19  <Ammler> make install INSTALL_DIR=%{buildroot}%{_datadir}/openttd/data
17:45:14  <planetmaker> Still... I think it's fine as is. Most people want it locally.
17:46:18  <Ammler> yeah, but in those cases you don't use make install
17:46:27  <Ammler> that is simply uncommon
17:46:52  <planetmaker> yes, that it is. But it's useful :-)
17:46:58  <Ammler> well, don't get me wrong, it is fine enough :-)
17:47:09  <planetmaker> no, it's alright :-)
17:47:15  <planetmaker> No offence taken
17:47:40  <Ammler> make install if for me a "root" command
17:47:45  <Ammler> is*
17:48:20  <Ammler> install means (for me) copy as root
17:49:29  <Rubidium> default install should install in /usr/local
17:49:49  <Ammler> yes
17:49:54  <Rubidium> at least, that's the common way (gcc, zlib, lzo, ... and such)
17:50:15  <Ammler> default prefix=/usr/local
17:50:26  <planetmaker> well. But an install for any of these projects to /usr/local is nonsense.
17:50:48  <Ammler> then build systems change prefix to $buildroot/usr
17:50:49  <planetmaker> Installing to the system wide grf dir - that'd make sense
17:51:20  <Ammler> /usr/local/share/openttd/data
17:51:28  <planetmaker> oh, right ;-)
17:51:30  <planetmaker> tralalala
17:51:42  <planetmaker> I somehow read /usr/local/bin... why ever.
17:51:51  <planetmaker> I should go eat and replenish my blood sugar supply
17:51:52  <Ammler> there is openttd binary :-)
17:52:32  <Ammler> /usr/local should have same dirs like /usr
17:53:05  <planetmaker> yep. But dinner sounds like a good plan now.
17:53:08  <Ammler> he, I explained it to you on :-P
17:53:11  <planetmaker> But you could make me a ticket ;-)
17:53:15  <Ammler>
17:53:17  <Ammler> *
17:53:45  <planetmaker> I don't read back there :-P
17:54:02  <Ammler>
17:54:04  <Webster> Title: Ubuntu grf (at
17:55:55  <Rubidium> ubuntu grf? What have they been using?
18:09:49  <Ammler> Rubidium: ubuntu user are like windows user :-)
18:10:13  <Rubidium> Ammler: doubtful
18:10:20  <Rubidium> they're probably worse
18:10:48  <Ammler> well, windows people using linux ;-)
18:11:47  <Ammler> still not reading readme...
18:25:07  <andythenorth> how well does 2CC set support FIRS?
18:26:11  <andythenorth> DJ_Nekkid: ^^
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18:27:21  <planetmaker> andythenorth, it *should* as it defines wagons for all cargo classes. But details would need testing. And dedicated cargo sprites are... a pity :-(
18:29:26  <Ammler> but would be awesome :-)
18:30:17  <Ammler> andythenorth: didn't you once discuss to offer some generic cargo sprites?
18:30:24  <andythenorth> yeah
18:30:32  <andythenorth> I am a real ideas machine :)
18:30:36  <planetmaker> :-)
18:30:39  <andythenorth> not all turn into reality :o
18:30:48  <Ammler> but not that bad :-P
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19:00:05  <DJ_Nekkid> sorry, i were afk fixing some fibre cable :P
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19:00:31  <DJ_Nekkid> but andythenorth; as planetmaker say, the 2cc set _should_ support firs quite extensivly, as the wagons are quite unrestricted
19:00:39  <DJ_Nekkid> and they do use cargoclasses
19:00:52  <andythenorth> I could do with a list of which sets support FIRS :o
19:01:08  * andythenorth adds it to the ever-growing list of things to do :|
19:01:14  <DJ_Nekkid> if you want any cargospecific sprites, just shout...
19:01:17  <DJ_Nekkid> i mean, if you draw them :P
19:01:19  <andythenorth> the more work I do on the game, the more work appears
19:01:25  <DJ_Nekkid> i know the feeling
19:01:55  <DJ_Nekkid> and i _really_ should finish the 2cc set
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19:02:57  <Ammler> :-D
19:03:12  <DJ_Nekkid> perhaps tonight? :)
19:03:22  <DJ_Nekkid> not too much left
19:06:20  <Ammler> do the swedish house have a switch to enable default houses?
19:08:00  <DJ_Nekkid> do you guys have "<country> talents" ?
19:08:25  <DJ_Nekkid> (brittish talents for example)
19:09:03  <Rubidium> DJ_Nekkid: as in some moron tv thing?
19:09:19  <DJ_Nekkid> yea :)
19:09:35  <DJ_Nekkid> what is it about thoose guys who can talk backwards really good?
19:09:50  <DJ_Nekkid> always crappy!
19:09:55  <Rubidium> no idea, can't be bothered AT ALL to watch such programs
19:14:16  <DJ_Nekkid> hehe
19:14:24  <DJ_Nekkid> bah
19:14:33  <DJ_Nekkid> i also want a fiberoptic link at home!
19:15:11  <Ammler> I would like to have a slower/cheaper link at home
19:15:37  <DJ_Nekkid> how can fibre be slower?
19:15:48  <Ammler> _I_
19:16:49  <Ammler> I use 90% of the bandwith for torrents seeding
19:16:52  <DJ_Nekkid> i currently have 15/1mbit
19:17:19  <DJ_Nekkid> and i work as a fibre-optic network builder (FTTH(fiber to the home))
19:17:37  <DJ_Nekkid> but we work on quite small areas at the time
19:17:49  <Ammler> well, if you have same mobile speed, it would be nice
19:17:52  <DJ_Nekkid> and we have not built right here yet
19:18:07  <DJ_Nekkid> and a 50/50 or 100/100mbit line would be nice :)
19:18:14  <DJ_Nekkid> atleast when i would pay for 10/10
19:18:14  <DJ_Nekkid> :)
19:18:16  <Ammler> what for?
19:18:40  <DJ_Nekkid> price?
19:18:50  <Ammler> no, the high speed
19:19:12  <DJ_Nekkid> what i would want it for?
19:19:15  <Ammler> yes
19:19:24  <DJ_Nekkid> i get a bigger penis :)
19:19:43  <Ammler> hmm, attention, it might balance there ;-)
19:20:10  <DJ_Nekkid> well... on a serious note...
19:20:27  <DJ_Nekkid> i can "buy" stuff faster :)
19:20:48  <DJ_Nekkid> and the better part, i can help other people "buy" stuff faster :)
19:22:17  <Ammler> you could store your mp3 collection at home
19:22:27  <DJ_Nekkid> for example
19:22:53  <Ammler> and only play remote on your dj jobs :-)
19:23:07  <DJ_Nekkid> hehe
19:23:19  <DJ_Nekkid> _if_ the mobile broadband were stable enough
19:23:43  <Ammler> [20:17] <Ammler> well, if you have same mobile speed, it would be nice
19:23:48  <DJ_Nekkid> hehe
19:24:19  <DJ_Nekkid> i dont need a very high speed to stream, but i need a 100% reliable connectio
19:24:20  <DJ_Nekkid> n
19:24:21  <Ammler> I am acutally fine enough with my ssh access to my home server
19:25:18  <Ammler> then I build tunnels to whatever desktop/service I need
19:25:47  <DJ_Nekkid> but you are a WAY more experienced *nix user then me :)
19:26:14  <Ammler> I am just a user, like you :-P
19:26:31  <Ammler> I just do it a bit longer...
19:26:32  <DJ_Nekkid> still more experienced
19:26:36  <DJ_Nekkid> yea :)
19:26:56  <Ammler> well
19:27:22  <Ammler> since I have a tv box, I would have a usage for high speed
19:27:23  <DJ_Nekkid> i guess i should have continued my linux experience when i were ... younger .)
19:27:32  <DJ_Nekkid> 10y ago :)
19:28:01  <Ammler> linux experience does also help understand windows
19:28:12  <DJ_Nekkid> yea, i bet!
19:28:16  <Ammler> I don't use windows myself, but I can still help other on it...
19:28:27  <DJ_Nekkid> but imho
19:28:37  <DJ_Nekkid> have windows changed to much from XP to vista and then 7
19:29:01  <Ammler> windows7 is windows with "I want sudo"
19:29:15  <DJ_Nekkid> hehe!
19:29:18  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 295: Change: split tractors to separate files <> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 294: Change: split Grindelwald transport to separate file <> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 293: Change: split Kander transporter to separate file <>
19:29:35  <Ammler> no idea, how well it works
19:29:54  <Ammler> does someone still need to define himself as admin to use games?
19:30:06  <DJ_Nekkid> i have no idea
19:30:11  <DJ_Nekkid> but i doubt it
19:31:05  <DJ_Nekkid> but i still think windows7 have done very much right
19:31:53  <DJ_Nekkid> and probably stolen most of it from macOS and some linux desktop things
19:32:28  <Ammler> that isn't bad :-)
19:32:33  <DJ_Nekkid> nope
19:32:37  <DJ_Nekkid> i.e.
19:32:46  <DJ_Nekkid> the dektop-start-menu-bar thingy
19:32:48  <DJ_Nekkid> just icons
19:32:58  <DJ_Nekkid> not tiny icon and "firefox" or whatever
19:33:09  <Ammler> I almost never use that
19:33:16  <Ammler> mostly Alt-F2
19:33:23  <Ammler> or console
19:33:26  <DJ_Nekkid> what is alt-f2 in windows?
19:33:47  <Ammler> run tool maybe
19:34:01  <DJ_Nekkid> ahh
19:34:02  <Ammler> a tiny windows on the center in my screen
19:34:07  <DJ_Nekkid> windows-button+R
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19:34:22  <Ammler> where I can do everything, start a program, search, calc etc...
19:34:31  <DJNekkid> yup :)
19:35:26  <Ammler>
19:35:27  <Webster> Title: plasma-desktopqB6464.jpg (at
19:38:06  <DJNekkid> nice!
19:40:12  <DJNekkid> where were i?
19:40:16  <DJNekkid> code 2cc set?
19:40:27  <DJNekkid> still heavent opened the text editor...
19:45:01  <OwenS> Ammler: My krunner has broken :s
19:45:06  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 297: Remove: combined file for trams <> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 296: Remove: combined file for tractors <>
19:45:28  <DJNekkid> whats a krunner?
19:45:31  <DJNekkid> KDE-runner?
19:45:48  <OwenS> The window Ammler linked to a picture of
19:47:42  <DJNekkid> my god damn it!
19:48:25  <DJNekkid> why cant people learn that one can NEVER EVER sing a Mariah Carey, Christina Auigilera and Celine Dion on a "Idol"-based show...
19:49:17  <DJNekkid> and Whiney Huston as well...
19:55:18  <Ammler> OwenS: KDE 4.4?
19:56:46  <OwenS> Ammler: 4.3.3
19:56:53  <Ammler> hmm, ok
19:57:11  <Ammler> on KDE 4.4, it wouldn't suprise me
19:57:12  <OwenS> Hmm, apt just installed some Plasma updates. Maybe it will be fixed nest restart
19:57:34  <Ammler> Sysinfo for 'inspiron': Linux running KDE 4.3.5 (KDE 4.3.5) "release 0", CPU: Intel(R) Core 2 CPU         T5600  @ 1.83GHz at 1000 MHz (3657 bogomips), HD: 101/121GB, RAM: 1909/1988MB, 189 proc's, 2.13d up
19:58:14  <Ammler> that is default suse 11.2 installation
19:59:52  <Ammler> I do not know many "apt" users, who use KDE :-)
20:00:20  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 298: Change: renamed some defines <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 754: Fix: Textile Mill had wrong acceptance <>
20:00:29  <OwenS> apt? You mean, Debian based distro users? :p
20:00:56  <Ammler> yes, you need to install special repos for it, don't you?
20:01:06  <OwenS> no
20:01:17  <OwenS> Debian and Ubuntu both provide KDE in their main repositories
20:03:33  <Ammler> so why is there a Kubuntu?
20:03:54  <OwenS> Kubuntu means you get KDE on the CD, instead of GNOME
20:04:36  <OwenS> On a Ubuntu machine you can install kubuntu-desktop to pull down KDE; on a KUbuntu machine you can install ubuntu-desktop to get GNOME; xubuntu-desktop and mythbuntu-desktop are also available
20:05:47  <Ammler> you know lsde?
20:05:50  <Ammler> lxde*
20:05:53  <OwenS> Heard of it
20:06:08  <Ammler> well, then you know around as much as me :-)
20:06:37  <Ammler> but I guess I will replace my xfce4 with on next setup there
20:07:35  <DJNekkid> i apparently have Gnome installed ...
20:07:38  <OwenS> Right, now OpenSolaris box, please successfully complete image-update
20:07:46  <DJNekkid> and the rumors say that KDE is better ...
20:08:02  <Ammler> DJNekkid: it is quite relative...
20:08:16  <Ammler> kde has just everything...
20:08:18  <DJNekkid> Ammler: you yourselves saied so a few days ago :)
20:08:22  <OwenS> GNOME is easier to use, but less featureful, and also more of a memory hog
20:08:52  <Ammler> gnome is like windows, you still have to search for 3rd party apps :-)
20:09:15  <Ammler> that is mostly not necessary with kde
20:09:59  <DJNekkid> pretty much the only thing i use on my linux box is Xchat and termina
20:10:00  <DJNekkid> l
20:10:06  <Ammler> well, some apps, I use 3rd party
20:10:10  <Ammler> like openoffice and gimp
20:10:40  <Ammler> yeah, konsole is also better than terminal ;-)
20:10:56  <Ammler> Konversation is better than xchat
20:11:34  <DJNekkid> is it worth the hassle to change?
20:11:44  <Ammler> not really, if you are happy
20:11:45  <OwenS> DJNekkid: What distro?
20:11:53  <Ammler> but you can easy run both...
20:12:12  <DJNekkid> OwenS: Centos 5.x
20:12:14  <Ammler> I have GNOME and xfce4 installed here
20:12:30  <Ammler> centos isn't a desktop distro
20:12:30  <OwenS> OK, CentOS I have no clue. Also, being as it is, it will have a rather out of date version
20:12:49  <DJNekkid> it also "just" a server
20:12:59  <DJNekkid> mainly a fileserver for personal use
20:13:06  <DJNekkid> plus a redmine i use at work
20:13:21  <DJNekkid> and i have a remote desktop running my irc client
20:13:30  <DJNekkid> and i build *.grf here
20:13:38  <DJNekkid> /there
20:14:19  <Ammler> yes, kde on centos might be quite old and buggy
20:14:44  <DJNekkid> now I probably is REALLY stupid
20:14:48  <Ammler> if you don't find kde > 4.3, don't install it
20:15:10  <DJNekkid> but how would KDE be old on one system, and new on another?
20:15:20  <DJNekkid> dont they all get "it" from the same place?
20:15:35  <DJNekkid> (or any other software for that matter)
20:15:38  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 300: Change: Red Peak crawler uses defines for IDs <> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 299: Change: speedytracs use defines for IDs <>
20:15:38  <Ammler> because centos uses acient versions of everything when it releases
20:15:43  <Ammler> worse than debian
20:15:57  <Ammler> but the advantage is, you have support until year 15
20:16:23  <Ammler> there are some 3rd party repos, you could try
20:17:37  <Ammler> I tried centos a year ago, it had already old php and python
20:17:53  <Ammler> and I have no idea, when centos 6 will be releases
20:18:39  <DJNekkid> i still have to little _real_ experience with linux to have any real oppinion
20:19:21  <Ammler> well, on server systems, you mostly like something you can setup and then let it run for 3-5 years
20:19:38  <Ammler> for such things, centos is perfect
20:20:58  <Ammler> but in my case (DevZone), centos failed with that I wasn't able to install the obs
20:21:13  <Ammler> because that required too new python
20:21:21  <Ammler> which is fixed in the meantime :-)
20:21:58  <Ammler> also wordpress or the wiki didn't work with default php
20:22:59  <Ammler> the big disadvantage we have now is that the support for our current distro stops next year
20:23:23  <DJNekkid> what is "support" in this context?
20:23:26  <Ammler> so if we are too lazy for upgrade, we wouldn't get any security fixes anymore.
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20:27:28  <Ammler> but nowadays, distro upgrade is quite easy
20:27:41  <Ammler> in our case just a "zypper dup"
20:28:00  <Ammler> so the only work, we have is to keep apps running with new version
20:30:14  <DJNekkid> wow
20:30:28  <DJNekkid> Axel Lund Svindal is a quite good dancer :)
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20:32:51  <DJNekkid> either way, if/when i install a distro sometime, i'll do KDE and not gnome
20:36:05  <Ammler> you know, which distro I use :-P
20:37:21  <DJNekkid> O-something :)
20:38:11  <Ammler> no o-something
20:39:28  <Rubidium> oebuntu?
20:40:33  <DJNekkid> the next time i'll ask you Ammler  :)
20:41:22  <Ammler> you did already the last time :-P
20:41:41  <DJNekkid> probably, but i probably never got a good awnser :)
20:41:46  <Ammler> well, it might be you asked on the time, we tried out CentOS self
20:41:47  <DJNekkid> and, good for you ...
20:42:52  <DJNekkid> it were a RL friend who works in a IT company who recomended me CentOS
20:43:45  <OwenS> Pfft. Ammler is a silly SuSE user
20:43:52  <Ammler> NO
20:44:06  <Ammler> SuSE is gone like 5 years
20:44:12  <Ammler> it is SUSE now :-P
20:44:34  <DJNekkid> i have, and always had, a feeling that the "hardcore" linux users always fight and bitchslap eachother ...
20:44:43  <DJNekkid> X is best, no Y is best, no Z is best
20:44:53  <DJNekkid> X-users are pussys
20:44:54  <Ammler> yes, isn't that nice
20:44:58  <DJNekkid> Y-users are cocks
20:45:01  <OwenS> Hem. I'm also an OpenSolaris user :p
20:45:05  <DJNekkid> Z-users have big cocks!
20:45:07  <Ammler> just using linux doesn't stop from comparing
20:45:39  <DJNekkid> and even...
20:45:50  <DJNekkid> a X-user can say ... Windows is better then Y
20:45:55  <Ammler> sometimes, teh fights between linux distros are worse than linux -> windows
20:46:03  <DJNekkid> ^^
20:46:41  <DJNekkid> exactly
20:46:49  <DJNekkid> :åp
20:48:40  <Rubidium> I think Debian is the best distro from all distros that have a Linux, FreeBSD and GNU Hurd kernel
20:49:36  <DJNekkid> hmm
20:49:41  <DJNekkid> what were the name of that 3rd movie..
20:51:59  <Ammler>
20:52:00  <Webster> Title: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD. (at
20:52:27  <Rubidium> (but then, to be fair... I think Debian is the only that has all three kernels and is not abandonned)
20:55:45  <Ammler> also architecture is quite limited on suse
20:56:20  <Ammler> only the well known x86_64 and i686
20:56:34  <DJNekkid> *sitting here, smiling, knowing nothing, but still enjoying the bitchslaping* :)
20:58:39  <Ammler> gentoo is quite low on distrowatch
20:59:30  <Rubidium> andythenorth: do you have the bug sprite icon thingy somewhere in pcx or so? Or do I have to cut it from the screenshot?
20:59:52  <andythenorth> Rubidium: yep, I'll post a png in that thread in a minute....
21:02:16  <andythenorth> Rubidium:
21:02:17  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - "Inspect in place" - newgrf info displayed for debugging (at
21:02:36  <andythenorth> I can pcx if you need....
21:04:08  <Ammler> a bug!
21:08:07  <DJNekkid> i want a GiG tonight!
21:08:42  <DJNekkid> i wonder... whom is playing out tonight
21:09:13  <DJNekkid> Øyvind...
21:09:15  <DJNekkid> bah
21:09:22  <DJNekkid> he isnt particulary good
21:10:32  <Ammler> DJNekkid: did you check linux world for dj software already?
21:10:40  <DJNekkid> nope
21:10:46  <DJNekkid> andtbh, it dont interest me
21:11:08  <DJNekkid> there is VERY VERY little good DJ software
21:11:30  <Ammler> tractor or so
21:11:37  <DJNekkid> with a K even
21:11:55  <Ammler> is that the software you use?
21:11:56  <DJNekkid> and that is produced by the quite respected Native Instruments
21:12:01  <DJNekkid> i dont use any
21:12:11  <DJNekkid> as i dont find them precise enough
21:12:30  <DJNekkid> CD/Vinyl > any tested software
21:12:36  <DJNekkid> i heavtent tested Serato yet
21:12:46  <Ammler> ok, but how you bridge a pause or so?
21:12:58  <DJNekkid> what do u mean?
21:13:26  <Ammler> don't you need to be able to make a list of about 5 songs which play automatically
21:13:33  <DJNekkid> no
21:13:45  <DJNekkid> i never use any autoplay function
21:13:48  <DJNekkid> i always mix live
21:14:16  <Ammler> so if you pause, it is silent :-)
21:14:24  <DJNekkid> it _would_ be
21:14:30  <DJNekkid> but why would i want a pause? :)
21:14:36  <Ammler> toilette?
21:14:41  <Ammler> :-D
21:14:45  <DJNekkid> hehe
21:14:52  <KenjiE20> thats when you cue a 5min track :P
21:14:53  <DJNekkid> then i gotta be quick, dont i? :)
21:14:58  <DJNekkid> 5min?
21:15:04  <DJNekkid> usually  8 or so :)
21:15:08  <KenjiE20> depends what you need :)
21:15:22  <KenjiE20> Iron Maiden 10min solos are good for long ones
21:15:23  <DJNekkid> usually a beer on the way back
21:15:23  <KenjiE20> :P
21:15:29  <Rubidium> oh planetmaker... OpenGFX is one sprite short
21:15:39  <Ammler> :-P
21:15:55  <DJNekkid> but from joke to gun ...
21:16:00  <DJNekkid> that dint work in english
21:16:12  <DJNekkid> either way
21:16:20  <DJNekkid> i _usually_ play in my own city
21:16:32  <DJNekkid> and here we have a quite good DJ-enviroment
21:16:38  <DJNekkid> we all know eachother
21:17:19  <DJNekkid> and we trust eachother, so when i dont have a gig, and im partying, i usually visit the other DJ's, and if they need me to, i do a mix for them, so they can get a drink, take a smoke, go to the toilette
21:17:24  <DJNekkid> and vica verca
21:17:31  <DJNekkid> plus...
21:17:46  <DJNekkid> i've made a handful of "mini-mixes" that last 3 tunes
21:18:08  <DJNekkid> so i can go and get a drink and go to the toilette if needed without any stress
21:18:17  <DJNekkid> 3 tunes = 12ish minutes
21:18:44  <DJNekkid> *monolouge 4tw*
21:20:50  <DJNekkid> Rubidium: are there any good online sites where one can learn dutch?
21:21:20  <frosch123> rb is certainly the best choice to ask :p
21:21:47  <DJNekkid> he is dutch, isnt he? atleast he is in my head :)
21:22:06  <frosch123> yup, and he learnt durch from the internet
21:22:20  <frosch123> :p
21:23:12  <DJNekkid> but he might know of any good sites? i could probably find a couple of similar norwegian ones
21:23:59  <DJNekkid> i mean ...
21:24:31  <DJNekkid> if i would like to learn a language, wouldnt it be better to ask he or she if they knew any place to learn it, rather then ... you? :P
21:24:34  <frosch123> really? ok, i wouldn't know a german site
21:24:45  <Rubidium> why would you want to learn Dutch?
21:25:31  <DJNekkid> because i travel to the Amsterdam region about 2 times a year
21:26:01  <DJNekkid> and we are concidering to move to Holland (or Netherlands or what the _real_ proper term is)
21:26:18  <Ammler> hmm, how to test the new gui button?
21:26:28  <Rubidium> technically Holland is only two of the twelve provinces
21:26:30  <KenjiE20> Holland is part of the Netherlands iirc
21:27:03  <DJNekkid> why im not 100% sure what the proper term is
21:27:09  <DJNekkid> /name
21:27:24  <DJNekkid> as in norwegian we use both "Holland" and "Nederland"
21:27:26  <KenjiE20> depends where you're going :)
21:27:53  <DJNekkid> i usually say Nederland tho
21:28:16  <DJNekkid> "we are going to the Netherlands in a few weeks"
21:30:51  <Rubidium> but to be honest, I've got no clue where to find decent lessons
21:31:23  <DJNekkid> i guess you guys speak enlighs just as good as us :)
21:31:27  <DJNekkid> *english
21:33:07  <DJNekkid> how fare have the fiber optic network building come in .nl ? :)
21:34:22  <Rubidium> Ammler: (industry view has the sprite)
21:34:39  <Rubidium> DJNekkid: depends, some places have it, some don't
21:35:39  <DJNekkid> oki :)
21:47:22  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Revision 400: Feature [#869]: gui icon for debug tools <> || OpenGFX - Feature #869 (New): GUI: debug icon <>
21:53:22  <DJNekkid> why do girls with a high pitched voice sound so god damn stupid?
21:54:50  <Ammler> some time ago, I listen to a cover band, which made witney huston
21:54:56  <Ammler> well really long ago
21:55:21  <Ammler> it was a man signing that part
21:57:09  <DJNekkid> rofl
21:59:46  <Ammler> michal jackson like
22:02:51  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 302: Change: further improved tram sprites <> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 301: Change: seriously improved tram sprites <>
22:06:06  <DJNekkid> omg! Team Harald could not win that!
22:08:06  <DJNekkid> We have a talkshow here... "Senkveld" (Latenight or something simiar) with two hosts
22:08:20  <DJNekkid> and the last couple of seasons have they had "Camp Senkveld"
22:08:41  <DJNekkid> where they have gathered some norwegian celebs
22:09:55  <DJNekkid> and thoose two hosts compete against eachother, with their teams, in various things, from Fitness, 10.000m skates, childerens theatre, car raceing
22:10:12  <DJNekkid> and today the best team lost
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23:20:56  <Doorslammer> I laways imagined Senkveld as a cheap production Dutch comedy about nothing
23:21:42  <Doorslammer> With his neighbours van der Kramer, Georg and Elaijne
23:21:54  <Doorslammer> "Guten tag, Neumann!" they all say
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23:35:37  <DJNekkid> Doorslammer: you know the norwegian show?
23:38:10  <Doorslammer>  No
23:38:43  <Doorslammer> Im just talking rubbish as usual
23:39:00  <DJNekkid> ahh...
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