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01:10:16 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 01:18:25 *** OwenS has quit IRC 07:31:13 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:12:20 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 44: Fix: Add the credits to the readme <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openmsx/repository/revisions/44> 08:28:22 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Example NewGRF Project - Feature #867 (Assigned): Allow support for custom txt rules <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/867> 08:36:16 <Rubidium> msx doesn't compile anymore (make clean && make: *** No rule to make target `docs/license.txt', needed by `openmsx-nightly'. Stop.) 08:43:25 <planetmaker> he. bad 08:44:56 <planetmaker> did you clean before? 08:45:19 <planetmaker> ah... docs. sorry, nvm 08:49:11 <planetmaker> should be fixed now 08:50:28 <Rubidium> yeah, that seems to work 08:51:49 <planetmaker> though that stuff will need some refinement at a later stage. It's a bit ugly now. 09:00:16 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 45: Fix (r44): [Makefile] doc files were not found properly <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openmsx/repository/revisions/45> 09:32:31 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 280: Change: several angles complete for Henningsdorf ele... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/280> 09:48:31 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 282: Change: tweaks to tram sprites, wagon display rules <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/282> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 281: Change: tweaked offsets, finished angles for Henning... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/281> 10:04:33 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 283: Change: added trolley poles for Kreuzberg Tram <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/283> 10:20:35 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 46: Change: Wrap the readme at 80 chars and update it a bit. <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openmsx/repository/revisions/46> 11:08:41 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 284: Change: pantographs and depot view for Henningsdorf ... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/284> 11:56:47 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 285: Change: some tweaks to Henningsdorf electric tram <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/285> 12:01:57 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:12:51 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 47: Change: Align the list of credits a bit better <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openmsx/repository/revisions/47> 12:17:11 <Rubidium> no full names (if possible) like in OpenGFX? 12:19:05 <Ammler> planetmaker: is a fan of anonymous entries ;-) 12:22:29 <planetmaker> hm, possible, But I don't know them everywhere :-) 12:23:14 <planetmaker> Due to popular demand I might add them then to the next version :-) 12:24:12 <planetmaker> hm, maybe I should add my name to OpenGFX ;-) 12:24:34 <planetmaker> Meanwhile it became a truely selling point, also in RL :-P 12:24:40 <Ammler> or you should anonymize planetmaker.de too :-P 12:24:48 <planetmaker> yeah 12:25:02 <Ammler> like andy ;-) 12:25:44 <Ammler> we could think about resorting the credits list there 12:25:53 <Ammler> as reverse order seems odd 12:25:58 <Ammler> (for some) 12:26:06 <planetmaker> Well... guess who wanted revers order? 12:26:10 <Ammler> me :-P 12:26:16 <Ammler> no, not me 12:26:21 <Ammler> but I was the cause for it 12:26:47 <Ammler> of course, if we resort, we use Realnames 12:27:31 <Ammler> Real Name (Nick) 12:27:44 <Ammler> or Real "Nick" Name 12:27:45 <planetmaker> Of course we keep nick names as OpenTTD does ;-) 12:27:55 <planetmaker> At least they determin sorting ;-) 12:27:58 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - OpenMSX 0.2.1 released <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/news/27> 12:32:08 <planetmaker> Added request for real names to my posting in the tt-forums 12:41:03 <planetmaker> Ammler, are you actually working on anything in OpenGFX? 12:41:30 <planetmaker> or do you plan to add anything before 0.2.2? 12:41:41 <Ammler> no 12:41:50 <Ammler> and no 12:41:53 <planetmaker> :-) 12:42:09 <Ammler> not sure about the uk signals 12:42:40 <planetmaker> Well... if you like, you can add it. Till Sunday night :-) 12:42:42 <Ammler> nobody gave feedback, that Born Acorns signals are better... 12:42:58 <planetmaker> Dunno, though 12:43:09 <Ammler> as i never use that type :-) 12:43:53 <Ammler> it is a lot work right now... 12:45:32 <planetmaker> yeah... so better something to try after the release 12:46:12 <planetmaker> as are the vehicles with improved headlights and the reworked rail engines and wagons. 12:48:47 <Ammler> planetmaker: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/698#note-5 12:50:39 <planetmaker> hm, yes... 12:50:56 <Ammler> :-) 12:51:46 <planetmaker> can you give me the lines, though? 12:52:04 <planetmaker> waterfeatures 12:52:55 <Ammler> I should have linked it there... 12:53:05 <planetmaker> yes :-P 12:53:32 <Ammler> and since we splitted the files, you can view it on devzone directly ;-) 12:54:37 <planetmaker> Honestly I'm not sure how well that behaves, if one comes up with a newgrf which has sprites for rivers, canals and locks 12:54:59 <Ammler> yeah 12:55:09 <Ammler> I just mentioned that we use Action2 already 12:55:29 <planetmaker> but it's the only place. And the least likely to be changed by newgrfs. I know none except one 12:55:32 <Ammler> hmm, we could check that with MB rivers 12:55:40 <planetmaker> ^ 12:57:17 <Ammler> works fine for rivers 12:57:29 <Ammler> it shows the MB rivers with the newgrf 12:57:36 <planetmaker> Please add that piece of information to the tracker :-) 12:57:38 <Ammler> which is perfectly fine, imo 12:58:25 <Ammler> hmm, the mb rivers are indeed better 12:58:28 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Feature #758 (Rejected): ogfx1_base: 1467:1469 old offices <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/758#change-2357> 12:58:56 <Ammler> (can I reject my own tickets, btw.?) 12:59:09 <Ammler> or should I simply close those :-) 12:59:09 <planetmaker> yes, you can. But has it become obsolete? 12:59:18 <planetmaker> To my knowledge the new sprites don't support recolour 12:59:27 <Ammler> the do, the roofs 12:59:32 <planetmaker> oh 12:59:32 <Ammler> well, dunno all 12:59:47 <Ammler> before it was randomly 13:00:13 <Ammler> now they bahave kind of intended 13:00:19 <Ammler> nice, imo 13:00:47 <Ammler> what still stays is the question, if we will replace UK houses with TTD style houses in general 13:01:08 <Ammler> but that can then become a new ticket... 13:01:08 <planetmaker> not in general 13:01:25 <planetmaker> but climate specific ;-) 13:01:40 <Ammler> yes, no uk houses in tropic :-) 13:01:40 <planetmaker> I'm not sure how much overlap there is, though 13:02:00 <Ammler> well, that shouldn't be an issue, Action7 13:02:15 <Ammler> same as the trains already 13:02:30 <planetmaker> yes, I know. I just wanted to say that I don't know the amount of sprites needed. 13:06:46 <planetmaker> but maybe you can make another review of the current state of the set in general, for something which might be a show stopper 13:07:28 <planetmaker> otherwise I might be tempted to do the release before Sunday even. 13:15:02 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Feature #698: snowy sprites for oil wells missing <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/698#change-2359> 13:24:34 <andythenorth> planetmaker: make: *** No rule to make target `sprites/nfo/industrial_trams/kreuzberg_tram.pnfo.pnfo', needed by `sprites/nfo/heqs.pnfo'. Stop. 13:24:40 <andythenorth> recurrent issue when I add afile 13:24:52 <andythenorth> goes away if I delete makefile.dep 13:25:16 <planetmaker> and does it re-appear? 13:25:18 <andythenorth> nvm, that one's a typo 13:25:28 <andythenorth> m) 13:25:43 <planetmaker> the advantage of a dep check :-) 13:25:52 <andythenorth> hmm 13:25:56 <andythenorth> it wasn't the type 13:25:59 <andythenorth> typo 13:26:08 <planetmaker> .pnfo.pnfo sounds wrong 13:26:13 <andythenorth> it was :) 13:26:22 <andythenorth> but I still had to delete makefile.dep 13:26:35 <planetmaker> run make depend 13:29:09 <Ammler> http://pastebin.ca/1852843 <-- why 2 times? 13:29:18 <Ammler> planetmaker: ^ 13:30:27 <planetmaker> why not? :-P 13:30:30 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 287: Change: split some more tram templates <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/287> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 286: Change: split some trams into separate templates <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/286> 13:31:05 <planetmaker> well... it shouldn't, sure 13:31:13 <Ammler> thanks ;-) 13:31:36 <planetmaker> what did you call to get that output? 13:31:50 <Ammler> hg clone opengfx 13:31:56 <Ammler> and then what you see 13:32:07 <planetmaker> what do I use? 13:32:16 <Ammler> use? 13:32:38 <planetmaker> uhm... :-P Those who can read are at an advantage ;-) (referring to myself) 13:33:08 <Ammler> the idea of the new compile system: hg clone <repo> 13:34:23 <Ammler> cp ../<repo>/.dz/compile.sh ./<repo>/ && tar -c <repo>.tar <repo> 13:34:57 <Ammler> then the chroot will run compile.sh 13:35:21 <Ammler> that way, we can make individual compile scripts 13:35:29 <planetmaker> interesting. It doesn't call it twice, if I run mrproper and then bundle_zip 13:35:40 <planetmaker> why do we need individual compile scripts? 13:35:44 <planetmaker> make and be done 13:36:00 <Ammler> I don't trust you :-P 13:36:43 <Ammler> the compile script is like the "old" Makefile.nightly 13:39:38 <Ammler> I need a script I can run in the chroot 13:39:48 <planetmaker> you can run make in the chroot 13:39:59 <planetmaker> Honestly, it's not a good thing to write separate build script another time 13:40:19 <Ammler> well, compile.sh just calls make 13:40:24 <Ammler> what is the issue then? 13:40:53 <planetmaker> And the difference to now? 13:41:13 <Ammler> there is no now, as we don't have a chroot now 13:41:47 <Ammler> the compile script is quite huge currently 13:41:55 <planetmaker> Right. IMHO just as important is that one could trigger a release build which then automatically is uploaded to the releases dir of the project 13:42:01 <Ammler> hmm, sill not everyhitng doable by make... 13:42:12 <planetmaker> make can basically do everything ;-) 13:42:29 <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/repository/entry/grfs/compile.sh 13:43:31 <planetmaker> I actually thought of re-adding a release target. Which then calls bundle_zip, bundle_src and creates the md5 files for them 13:43:39 <Ammler> for example extracting the compiled nfo 13:43:45 <planetmaker> yeah 13:44:02 <Ammler> writing the logs 13:44:09 <planetmaker> :-) 13:44:25 <planetmaker> Well, yes, that's both a genuine CF task and issue 13:44:53 <planetmaker> And as said, a big step forward would be generation of the release files. 13:45:11 <Ammler> yes, that should done too 13:45:13 <planetmaker> or the possbility to do so. It should still require a trigger and not be an automatic process 13:45:31 <Ammler> well the trigger is pushing a tag 13:45:34 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 289: Change: invisible sprites for trams no longer use fo... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/289> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 288: Change: shortened class life for Kreuzberg tram <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/288> 13:45:37 <planetmaker> trigger in the sense of the author explicitly telling "build vXYZ" 13:46:00 <planetmaker> well... probably would do. 13:46:37 <planetmaker> The only problem I see is in those cases where not sufficient care is taken: where md5sums of CF and author differ and as a result versions on bananas and CF differ 13:46:38 <Ammler> well, could then also be configured in .dz :-( 13:46:48 <Ammler> s/:-(/:-)/ 13:46:54 <planetmaker> :-P 13:47:36 <planetmaker> I always wonder how you get the smileys wrong ;-) 13:47:59 <Ammler> that is if I am not straight to the keyboard... 13:48:29 <Ammler> then sometimes, I hit the key beside 13:54:07 *** ODM has quit IRC 13:56:50 <Ammler> the other issue I have, FILENAME isn't always REPO 13:56:54 <Ammler> but mostly 14:00:41 <Ammler> [14:46] <planetmaker> The only problem I see is in those cases where not sufficient care is taken: where md5sums of CF and author differ and as a result versions on bananas and CF differ <-- you should use the zip from the CF on bananas 14:03:05 <Ammler> make bundle_zip ZIP="7za a" ZIP_FLAGS="-tzip -mx9" VERBOSE=1 <-- shouldn't that make output more VERBOSE? 14:03:23 <Rubidium> _V= ? 14:03:30 <Rubidium> (or is that grfcodec?) 14:04:18 <Ammler> ah indeed _V it is :-) 14:04:41 <Ammler> so VERBOSE is openttd Makefile? 14:04:59 <Rubidium> yep 14:06:05 <planetmaker> I *think* I took that abbreviation from either the make manual - or from grfcodec / nforenum make file. Dunno which 14:06:11 <Ammler> http://pastebin.ca/1852866 <-- this is why it is twice... 14:06:17 <planetmaker> Easy to make VERBOSE an alias for _V though 14:06:39 <Ammler> iirc, I saw VERBOSE in the Fedora spec 14:06:45 <Ammler> but might be from openttd spec 14:07:35 <planetmaker> but VERBOSE would make all those lines quite long ;-) 14:07:51 <Ammler> _V is fine 14:07:56 <Ammler> I was just confused 14:08:08 <Ammler> you see the double call? 14:08:18 <Ammler> after the touch thing again 14:08:52 <planetmaker> hm. 14:09:59 <Rubidium> guess that after building Makefile.dep it's including itself, finds that what Makefile.dep depends upon has changed and builds Makefile.dep again 14:10:22 <Ammler> grfcodec should really have a switch to supress the process 14:10:43 <planetmaker> it should not report the progress unless there's errors. 14:10:46 <Rubidium> Ammler: just don't provide a tty stdout 14:11:47 <Ammler> well, I would like to see it when it happens, and not a long nothing and the grep the logs... 14:11:47 <planetmaker> but posix compliant output in the first place is nicer ;-) 14:12:18 <Rubidium> Ammler: if you pipe the output into a log the progress should not be shown 14:12:25 <Ammler> I know 14:12:43 <Ammler> it is just boring for debugging... 14:13:03 <Rubidium> make|less 14:13:12 <Ammler> then you lose the error 14:13:12 <Rubidium> gives you insta-search too 14:13:39 <Rubidium> well, then write a patch for it 14:13:54 <Ammler> your patch did it :-P 14:14:00 <Ammler> -s iirc 14:14:33 <Rubidium> don't remember that 14:14:34 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttd.org/225415 <-- Ammler that *should* stop the double-building 14:14:55 <planetmaker> s/building/make depend/ 14:16:38 <planetmaker> hm, no good idea. There was a reason for the touch 14:16:40 <Ammler> doesn't apply 14:17:08 <planetmaker> r399 14:17:29 <Ammler> yes, hg clone does automatically get tip 14:17:42 <Ammler> I do clone everytime fresh 14:17:55 <Rubidium> planetmaker: and that reason is? 14:17:58 <Ammler> to be sure the repo itself is fine 14:18:22 <planetmaker> Rubidium, with that patch it doesn't re-build the respective grf, if I touch a pcx file 14:19:04 <Rubidium> odd 14:19:58 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttd.org/225416 14:21:17 <Rubidium> so the main files should get those pcxes and pnfos as dependencies 14:21:43 <Rubidium> because touching the pnfos always means dependency rebuilding 14:23:14 <planetmaker> well... but in theory it should work via a chain, shouldn't it? 14:29:56 <Rubidium> apparantly not :( 14:30:37 <Rubidium> it needs to depend directly on the pcx 14:31:15 <Rubidium> because otherwise it doesn't "see" that it needs to rebuild 14:31:26 <Rubidium> "it" being the grf 14:32:08 <Rubidium> hmm, or you rebuild the nfo if the pcx changed... would that be a bad thing? 14:43:36 <planetmaker> of course not. But the same thing would then apply to sub-pnfo files and so on 14:44:01 <planetmaker> Which basically leads then again to: the main pnfo file depends on all of its sub files, whether directly or indirectly included, directly 14:47:57 <Ammler> planetmaker: any idea, how I could guess the type to build? 14:48:16 <Ammler> grf, sfx, msx or whatever 14:48:27 <Ammler> without adding my own configs... 14:50:02 <Ammler> I hoped, you are using differnet Makefiles like Makefile.grf Makefile.sound or so 14:51:48 <Ammler> FILE_INC_EXTENSIONS = wav <-- maybe this: 14:52:52 <planetmaker> Ammler, that's no indicator :-) It's a default ;-) 14:53:07 <Ammler> but how do you differ, what you need to build? 14:53:12 <planetmaker> And the whole point of some of the rewrite actually was to unify things... 14:53:28 <planetmaker> I differ in the Makefile.config. MAIN_TARGET 14:54:03 <planetmaker> (which also could be main_targets actually ;-) 14:54:12 <planetmaker> if you want to have more than one newgrf there. 14:54:30 <Ammler> for newgrfs, that is a grf 14:54:41 <Ammler> hmm 14:55:02 <planetmaker> yes. And for base sets it's the o?? file. 14:55:15 <Ammler> so I could grep that line 14:55:27 <planetmaker> yes. And then extract the extension(s) 14:55:38 <Ammler> and decide then, which chroot/dependencies to uswe 14:56:11 <planetmaker> in principle yes. But you could just depend on the default stuff. 14:56:40 <planetmaker> it's all there on our CF anyway. 14:57:01 <planetmaker> and who cares whether there's an unneeded grfcodec depended upon? 14:57:13 <planetmaker> (or catcodec or renum) 14:57:25 <planetmaker> the other deps are always the same. 14:58:27 <Ammler> well, we don't need python for grf or sfx 14:58:41 <planetmaker> we need hg 14:58:51 <Ammler> true :-P 14:58:54 <planetmaker> and for grfs you need python 14:59:18 <planetmaker> not all, but one or two :-) 14:59:53 <planetmaker> and... python might become even a much stronger dependency :-) 15:00:15 <Ammler> you mean for building wihtout hg too? 15:00:40 <planetmaker> I rather mean the python2nfo pre-processor Yexo has in the pipe ;-) 15:01:48 <Ammler> hmm, you could add a wizzard to your example grf 15:03:00 <planetmaker> a wizard? 15:03:14 <planetmaker> you mean like ./configure ? :-) 15:03:17 <planetmaker> Not a bad idea actually 15:03:27 <Ammler> a tool to start a new project or add a grf to a existing project 15:03:54 <Ammler> which queries names and such 15:03:55 <planetmaker> Though in principle you "just" need to adopt Makefile.config 15:03:57 <Ammler> urls 15:04:03 <planetmaker> But yeah :-) 15:04:24 <planetmaker> That'd be MUCH more comfortable :-) 15:04:32 <Ammler> pmMagic help 15:04:33 <planetmaker> also automatically writing the action8 :-) 15:04:36 <planetmaker> :-P 15:04:46 <planetmaker> Nah, that will be included in the python2nfo project. 15:05:48 <planetmaker> python might actually a good thing to just write that script in... hm. yes 15:07:32 <Ammler> geektoo uses a strange location for the nfo 15:07:58 <planetmaker> what is it? 15:08:05 <Ammler> not sprites 15:08:19 <Ammler> there is no nfo in the nightly folder 15:08:22 <planetmaker> sprites is a silly requirement of grfcodec 15:09:55 <Ammler> is it possible I get the file name without extracting it from the zip? 15:10:08 <Rubidium> 7z -t <zip> ? 15:10:17 <Ammler> FILENAME=$(ls *.zip 2>/dev/null | cut -f1 -d.) 15:13:07 <planetmaker> Hm... I wonder whether arctic could use Swedish houses ;-) 16:14:24 <andythenorth> it's GPL, and they're nice sprites... 16:14:48 <planetmaker> :-) True. Still it'd be nice to ask 16:15:12 <andythenorth> Ask Irwe then :) 16:15:15 <planetmaker> and more important whether people think it's a good idea :-) 16:25:16 <Ammler> hmm 16:25:32 <Ammler> you could ask him to make houses for it :-P 16:25:50 <Ammler> or which one to use instead... 16:26:00 *** OwenS has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:26:20 <Ammler> I do btw. not very much like the house from irwe we use in tropic 16:26:38 <Ammler> it is fully out of scale imo 16:27:34 <Ammler> planetmaker: how do you plan to code the OpenGFX+? 16:27:54 <Ammler> own project? or a additional newgrf in opengfx? 16:30:19 <Rubidium> at least a new project for bananas 16:31:03 <Ammler> well, I guess, easiest might be to use 2cc project 16:32:19 <Ammler> and pimp up teh templates a bit :-) 16:34:05 <Ammler> OpenGFX+ can use 32px without problems. <-- tunnel gltich? 16:34:52 <Ammler> planetmaker: the templates should be prepared now 16:35:13 <Ammler> as he already annouced to work on the other views ;-) 16:37:52 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 292: Feature: 'big tram' <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/292> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 291: Change: setup tram wagon 3 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/291> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 290: Change: introduced Ishizuchi tram <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/290> 16:38:00 <Ammler> or we tell him to use pikka templates... 16:40:51 <Ammler> DJNekkid: what you think? 16:44:27 <DJNekkid> sorry, been afk 16:44:28 <DJNekkid> about what? 16:45:27 <Ammler> about OpenGFX+ vehicle set 16:45:35 <DJNekkid> i just looked at it! 16:45:36 <DJNekkid> love it! 16:45:49 <Ammler> and how would you code it? 16:46:00 <DJNekkid> personally? 16:46:20 <Ammler> hmm, don't care :-P 16:46:29 <DJNekkid> somewhat like the 2cc set... 16:46:49 <DJNekkid> want me to set up the needed templates? 16:47:05 <DJNekkid> basicly 2... 16:47:07 <Ammler> maybe you could pimp up the 2cc templates? 16:47:14 <DJNekkid> engine and MUs 16:47:14 <Ammler> with a bit comments 16:47:19 <DJNekkid> sure can ... 16:47:23 <DJNekkid> but basicly its pimp down :) 16:47:44 <Ammler> whatever ;-) 16:48:11 <Ammler> just so a "drawer" know, which row is for which view 16:48:22 <planetmaker> Ammler, I asked each of them to use Pikkas templates. More than once. 16:48:28 <DJNekkid> oh, you ment the gfx templates? 16:48:35 <planetmaker> I do give up on asking 16:48:42 <Ammler> planetmaker: does it work with those? 16:48:47 *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:48:51 <planetmaker> Those do work, yes 16:48:57 <planetmaker> I use them already in OpenGFX 16:49:04 <DJNekkid> there is 1 problem with pikkas templates 16:49:21 <Ammler> you need 10 pcx per train 16:49:31 <DJNekkid> no... 16:49:38 <planetmaker> No depot view ;-) 16:49:39 <DJNekkid> they are often to low 16:49:57 <planetmaker> yes, I noticed that. I was about to add higher ones 16:50:01 <Ammler> but that might mean, it doesn't glitch on tunnels? 16:50:10 <planetmaker> When I'm going to implement the arctic trains 16:50:12 <DJNekkid> clue is 16:50:16 <DJNekkid> anything without a panto is fine 16:50:19 <DJNekkid> usually 16:51:52 <Ammler> planetmaker: if you use the pikka templates, you need somewhat a plan how to compine those 16:52:02 <Ammler> combine* 16:52:28 <planetmaker> in how far combine? 16:52:40 <Ammler> front engine - waggon - rear 16:52:53 <Ammler> and depot view 16:52:55 <planetmaker> it mostly works out-of-the box with those 16:53:14 <planetmaker> The depot view isn't in them 16:53:42 <planetmaker> but among themselves, their alignment is fine 16:53:46 <Ammler> hmm, you mean buy menu view, I guess 16:53:53 <planetmaker> yes, sorry 16:54:38 <Ammler> and if the 32px does only gltich in depots, I could very well life with that 16:54:46 <Ammler> also with "standard" trains 16:55:19 <planetmaker> it really looks ugly in depots. I don't want that. 16:55:21 <Ammler> I always thought, we do that shortening because of tunnel glitch 16:55:37 <planetmaker> yes, I thought so, too. Until I noticed it with the depots :-) 16:55:41 <planetmaker> That's far worse. 16:56:10 <Ammler> that is really POV :-P 16:56:38 <planetmaker> you haven't really seen truncated steam engines. 16:56:40 <Ammler> or how you call that 16:56:58 <planetmaker> Missing head lights and half of the driver's cabin 16:57:13 <Ammler> planetmaker: because I watch trains on the map instead in the depot 16:57:50 <Ammler> well, it is fine, would just be nice, we could also fix the tunnel glitch 16:58:34 <Ammler> the depot view could also reported to openttd maybe... 16:58:54 <Rubidium> hahah 16:59:00 <Ammler> :-D 16:59:13 <planetmaker> :-D 16:59:17 *** DJ_Nekkid has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:59:34 <DJ_Nekkid> looks like my server crashed, or i cant reach it atm 16:59:35 <DJ_Nekkid> but; 16:59:40 <planetmaker> It *would* be nice, but yeah :-) 16:59:57 <DJ_Nekkid> showing 32px in the depot is just a normal "general action0" 16:59:58 <planetmaker> I don't know how many pandora boxes that would open 17:00:14 <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid, and in a base set I have exactly 0 action0 available. 17:00:24 <Rubidium> problem with the depot view is that it's probably fixed by setting that I want 32px long wagons bit, but I fear that doesn't work for the base graphics 17:00:44 <DJ_Nekkid> but arent we talking about "opengfx+" now? 17:00:59 <DJ_Nekkid> and Rubidium: isnt there anything "you" (devs) can doa bout that? 17:00:59 <planetmaker> Rubidium, yes, I cannot use action0, I guess. Hm.. I didn't try in extra actually... Maybe I should :-) 17:00:59 <Ammler> we were talking about the 32px glitch 17:01:05 <Rubidium> and making the original graphics and any NewGRF that doesn't use the 32px bit look odd because we 'force' it for all is probably not a good idea either 17:01:39 <planetmaker> Rubidium, doesn't the depot view know the sprite width? 17:02:15 <planetmaker> Well, I'll try an action0 for engines/wagons in the extra newgrf. 17:02:21 <planetmaker> That won't hurt. I think 17:02:34 <planetmaker> Just to set the 32px flag 17:02:44 <Ammler> hmm 17:03:00 <Ammler> Action0 isn't static, afaik 17:03:02 <planetmaker> I didn't think of doing that so far... as it sounds quite hellish. 17:03:14 <planetmaker> just because of that. ^ 17:04:02 <planetmaker> Rubidium, is the assumption correct, that a base set newgrf will always be loaded first? 17:04:10 <planetmaker> Thus that any newgrf will override it? 17:04:17 <planetmaker> in all cases? 17:04:29 <Rubidium> planetmaker: the depot view doesn't know the sprite sizes 17:04:40 <Rubidium> planetmaker: the base set is always loaded first 17:04:55 <Rubidium> (except in the case of the very old opengfx stuff) 17:05:06 <Rubidium> ((but then, that's not a base set)) 17:05:38 *** DJNekkid has quit IRC 17:05:47 <planetmaker> well, yes :-) So I guess I could give it a try... 17:06:05 <planetmaker> Setting that property doesn't affect game behaviour as far as I'm aware. 17:08:22 <planetmaker> but then... I could also set the 2cc flag 17:10:53 <planetmaker> in any case, that'd need careful testing 17:15:23 <Ammler> planetmaker: you mean enabling 2cc for the existing engines? 17:15:29 <planetmaker> yes 17:16:02 <planetmaker> IF we have the appropriate sprites AND it doesn't lead to funny glitches. 17:16:04 <Ammler> I am still not sure about "functional" differences to the ttd original 17:16:13 <Ammler> same with rivers... 17:17:22 <Ammler> if we make a OpenGFX+, we could also consider to move all the non-default things to there 17:17:37 <planetmaker> There will be an OpenGFX+ :-) 17:18:49 <Ammler> btw. did you read my inital questions about? 17:19:13 <Ammler> is opengfx+ part of opengfx project? 17:19:31 <planetmaker> I don't know yet. 17:19:41 <planetmaker> I'm not sure whether it's sensible or not. Both makes sense 17:20:01 <Ammler> but the easiest from building view might be a own project 17:20:30 <planetmaker> yes. It's easiest in many ways. Except duplicating some graphics 17:20:38 <Ammler> as it would also work without opengfx, I assume 17:20:38 <planetmaker> So it's most probably the way to go. 17:20:46 <planetmaker> Of course it would. 17:21:15 <planetmaker> It just might not blend in so nicely. 17:21:23 <planetmaker> Just like some other sets do with the original :-P 17:21:46 <planetmaker> Though I think that an OpenGFX+ would just re-define all vehicles. Then it makes sense with all base sets. 17:21:57 <planetmaker> Those few sprites don't hurt. At least for the vehicles. 17:22:06 <Ammler> but then, it should be part of opengfx project 17:22:11 <planetmaker> hu? 17:22:24 <Ammler> if you need the sprites from there 17:22:24 <planetmaker> I just argued that it should work independent of it ;-) 17:22:31 <planetmaker> ah 17:23:50 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 32bpp-extra - Bug #868 (New): No dummy sprites at start? <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/868> 17:24:12 <Ammler> I mean, we could then simply add a actionA with folloing a #include rail.pnfo 17:24:17 *** DJNekkid has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:24:35 <planetmaker> Yes. Something like that 17:25:06 <planetmaker> but then it doesn't hurt to just copy that. 17:25:15 <planetmaker> But exactly that's why I'm not yet decided ;-) 17:30:40 <Ammler> well, it depense, if you will support it with the Makefile framework 17:30:48 <Ammler> make opengfxplus.grf 17:31:33 <planetmaker> that'd be the other solution. But then there's no nice way for make bundle_zip and so on. Also very ugly 17:32:04 <Ammler> that is why it is up2you :-) 17:32:16 <Ammler> or just a subdir? 17:32:32 <planetmaker> hm.... *that* actually might be THE solution 17:32:43 <planetmaker> just call the make in that sub dir. 17:33:20 <planetmaker> One thing though then changes: make a commit to opengfx+ and you change the version of opengfx ;-) 17:33:33 <Ammler> why does that hurt? 17:34:04 <Ammler> well, the nightly build doesn't like it either... 17:34:36 <planetmaker> It doesn't exactly hurt 17:34:39 <Ammler> hmm 17:35:04 <Ammler> what about you create a folder "build" where you insert the things you build 17:35:13 <planetmaker> hu? 17:35:18 <Ammler> then with make bundle* you use what is there 17:36:14 <Ammler> make bundle_zip 17:36:15 <planetmaker> I still don't understand 17:36:27 <Ammler> make opengfxplus.grf && make bundle_zip 17:36:36 <planetmaker> ah... hm... 17:36:51 <planetmaker> that'd remove the possibility to just start make bundle_zip and be fine 17:36:54 <Ammler> bundle* does only depend on folder "build" 17:37:14 <planetmaker> well. But there's not rule for the folder "build" 17:37:36 <Ammler> all? 17:37:37 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:37:48 <Ammler> well 17:37:59 <planetmaker> and what should 'all' build in that case? a zip which contains both, base set and newgrf? 17:38:16 <Ammler> usually make install shouldn't depend on make all 17:38:27 <Ammler> they should be run seperately anyway 17:38:41 <Ammler> make && make install 17:38:47 <planetmaker> hm... 17:39:04 <Ammler> that is how rpm works, I would quite much bet, debian does it the same 17:39:07 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Feature #662: Rework trains <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/662#change-2360> 17:41:20 <Ammler> also because you run make install as root 17:41:42 <Ammler> except opengfx :-) 17:41:52 <planetmaker> :-) 17:42:07 <planetmaker> You could also run it as root. And use the shared dir... 17:42:09 <planetmaker> Hm. 17:42:50 <Ammler> I just mean, you don't use prefix 17:43:33 <Ammler> yes, that is how the package maintainers do it 17:44:19 <Ammler> make install INSTALL_DIR=%{buildroot}%{_datadir}/openttd/data 17:45:14 <planetmaker> Still... I think it's fine as is. Most people want it locally. 17:46:18 <Ammler> yeah, but in those cases you don't use make install 17:46:27 <Ammler> that is simply uncommon 17:46:52 <planetmaker> yes, that it is. But it's useful :-) 17:46:58 <Ammler> well, don't get me wrong, it is fine enough :-) 17:47:09 <planetmaker> no, it's alright :-) 17:47:15 <planetmaker> No offence taken 17:47:40 <Ammler> make install if for me a "root" command 17:47:45 <Ammler> is* 17:48:20 <Ammler> install means (for me) copy as root 17:49:29 <Rubidium> default install should install in /usr/local 17:49:49 <Ammler> yes 17:49:54 <Rubidium> at least, that's the common way (gcc, zlib, lzo, ... and such) 17:50:15 <Ammler> default prefix=/usr/local 17:50:26 <planetmaker> well. But an install for any of these projects to /usr/local is nonsense. 17:50:48 <Ammler> then build systems change prefix to $buildroot/usr 17:50:49 <planetmaker> Installing to the system wide grf dir - that'd make sense 17:51:20 <Ammler> /usr/local/share/openttd/data 17:51:28 <planetmaker> oh, right ;-) 17:51:30 <planetmaker> tralalala 17:51:42 <planetmaker> I somehow read /usr/local/bin... why ever. 17:51:51 <planetmaker> I should go eat and replenish my blood sugar supply 17:51:52 <Ammler> there is openttd binary :-) 17:52:32 <Ammler> /usr/local should have same dirs like /usr 17:53:05 <planetmaker> yep. But dinner sounds like a good plan now. 17:53:08 <Ammler> he, I explained it to you on tt-forums.net :-P 17:53:11 <planetmaker> But you could make me a ticket ;-) 17:53:15 <Ammler> tt-ms.de 17:53:17 <Ammler> * 17:53:45 <planetmaker> I don't read back there :-P 17:54:02 <Ammler> http://tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=4587&pid=62583#pid62583 17:54:04 <Webster> Title: Ubuntu grf (at tt-ms.de) 17:55:55 <Rubidium> ubuntu grf? What have they been using? 18:09:49 <Ammler> Rubidium: ubuntu user are like windows user :-) 18:10:13 <Rubidium> Ammler: doubtful 18:10:20 <Rubidium> they're probably worse 18:10:48 <Ammler> well, windows people using linux ;-) 18:11:47 <Ammler> still not reading readme... 18:25:07 <andythenorth> how well does 2CC set support FIRS? 18:26:11 <andythenorth> DJ_Nekkid: ^^ 18:26:19 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:27:21 <planetmaker> andythenorth, it *should* as it defines wagons for all cargo classes. But details would need testing. And dedicated cargo sprites are... a pity :-( 18:29:26 <Ammler> but would be awesome :-) 18:30:17 <Ammler> andythenorth: didn't you once discuss to offer some generic cargo sprites? 18:30:24 <andythenorth> yeah 18:30:32 <andythenorth> I am a real ideas machine :) 18:30:36 <planetmaker> :-) 18:30:39 <andythenorth> not all turn into reality :o 18:30:48 <Ammler> but not that bad :-P 18:40:42 *** Doorslammer has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:00:05 <DJ_Nekkid> sorry, i were afk fixing some fibre cable :P 19:00:30 *** Seberoth has quit IRC 19:00:31 <DJ_Nekkid> but andythenorth; as planetmaker say, the 2cc set _should_ support firs quite extensivly, as the wagons are quite unrestricted 19:00:39 <DJ_Nekkid> and they do use cargoclasses 19:00:52 <andythenorth> I could do with a list of which sets support FIRS :o 19:01:08 * andythenorth adds it to the ever-growing list of things to do :| 19:01:14 <DJ_Nekkid> if you want any cargospecific sprites, just shout... 19:01:17 <DJ_Nekkid> i mean, if you draw them :P 19:01:19 <andythenorth> the more work I do on the game, the more work appears 19:01:25 <DJ_Nekkid> i know the feeling 19:01:55 <DJ_Nekkid> and i _really_ should finish the 2cc set 19:02:09 *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:02:57 <Ammler> :-D 19:03:12 <DJ_Nekkid> perhaps tonight? :) 19:03:22 <DJ_Nekkid> not too much left 19:06:20 <Ammler> do the swedish house have a switch to enable default houses? 19:08:00 <DJ_Nekkid> do you guys have "<country> talents" ? 19:08:25 <DJ_Nekkid> (brittish talents for example) 19:09:03 <Rubidium> DJ_Nekkid: as in some moron tv thing? 19:09:19 <DJ_Nekkid> yea :) 19:09:35 <DJ_Nekkid> what is it about thoose guys who can talk backwards really good? 19:09:50 <DJ_Nekkid> always crappy! 19:09:55 <Rubidium> no idea, can't be bothered AT ALL to watch such programs 19:14:16 <DJ_Nekkid> hehe 19:14:24 <DJ_Nekkid> bah 19:14:33 <DJ_Nekkid> i also want a fiberoptic link at home! 19:15:11 <Ammler> I would like to have a slower/cheaper link at home 19:15:37 <DJ_Nekkid> how can fibre be slower? 19:15:48 <Ammler> _I_ 19:16:49 <Ammler> I use 90% of the bandwith for torrents seeding 19:16:52 <DJ_Nekkid> i currently have 15/1mbit 19:17:19 <DJ_Nekkid> and i work as a fibre-optic network builder (FTTH(fiber to the home)) 19:17:37 <DJ_Nekkid> but we work on quite small areas at the time 19:17:49 <Ammler> well, if you have same mobile speed, it would be nice 19:17:52 <DJ_Nekkid> and we have not built right here yet 19:18:07 <DJ_Nekkid> and a 50/50 or 100/100mbit line would be nice :) 19:18:14 <DJ_Nekkid> atleast when i would pay for 10/10 19:18:14 <DJ_Nekkid> :) 19:18:16 <Ammler> what for? 19:18:40 <DJ_Nekkid> price? 19:18:50 <Ammler> no, the high speed 19:19:12 <DJ_Nekkid> what i would want it for? 19:19:15 <Ammler> yes 19:19:24 <DJ_Nekkid> i get a bigger penis :) 19:19:43 <Ammler> hmm, attention, it might balance there ;-) 19:20:10 <DJ_Nekkid> well... on a serious note... 19:20:27 <DJ_Nekkid> i can "buy" stuff faster :) 19:20:48 <DJ_Nekkid> and the better part, i can help other people "buy" stuff faster :) 19:22:17 <Ammler> you could store your mp3 collection at home 19:22:27 <DJ_Nekkid> for example 19:22:53 <Ammler> and only play remote on your dj jobs :-) 19:23:07 <DJ_Nekkid> hehe 19:23:19 <DJ_Nekkid> _if_ the mobile broadband were stable enough 19:23:43 <Ammler> [20:17] <Ammler> well, if you have same mobile speed, it would be nice 19:23:48 <DJ_Nekkid> hehe 19:24:19 <DJ_Nekkid> i dont need a very high speed to stream, but i need a 100% reliable connectio 19:24:20 <DJ_Nekkid> n 19:24:21 <Ammler> I am acutally fine enough with my ssh access to my home server 19:25:18 <Ammler> then I build tunnels to whatever desktop/service I need 19:25:47 <DJ_Nekkid> but you are a WAY more experienced *nix user then me :) 19:26:14 <Ammler> I am just a user, like you :-P 19:26:31 <Ammler> I just do it a bit longer... 19:26:32 <DJ_Nekkid> still more experienced 19:26:36 <DJ_Nekkid> yea :) 19:26:56 <Ammler> well 19:27:22 <Ammler> since I have a tv box, I would have a usage for high speed 19:27:23 <DJ_Nekkid> i guess i should have continued my linux experience when i were ... younger .) 19:27:32 <DJ_Nekkid> 10y ago :) 19:28:01 <Ammler> linux experience does also help understand windows 19:28:12 <DJ_Nekkid> yea, i bet! 19:28:16 <Ammler> I don't use windows myself, but I can still help other on it... 19:28:27 <DJ_Nekkid> but imho 19:28:37 <DJ_Nekkid> have windows changed to much from XP to vista and then 7 19:29:01 <Ammler> windows7 is windows with "I want sudo" 19:29:15 <DJ_Nekkid> hehe! 19:29:18 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 295: Change: split tractors to separate files <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/295> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 294: Change: split Grindelwald transport to separate file <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/294> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 293: Change: split Kander transporter to separate file <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/293> 19:29:35 <Ammler> no idea, how well it works 19:29:54 <Ammler> does someone still need to define himself as admin to use games? 19:30:06 <DJ_Nekkid> i have no idea 19:30:11 <DJ_Nekkid> but i doubt it 19:31:05 <DJ_Nekkid> but i still think windows7 have done very much right 19:31:53 <DJ_Nekkid> and probably stolen most of it from macOS and some linux desktop things 19:32:28 <Ammler> that isn't bad :-) 19:32:33 <DJ_Nekkid> nope 19:32:37 <DJ_Nekkid> i.e. 19:32:46 <DJ_Nekkid> the dektop-start-menu-bar thingy 19:32:48 <DJ_Nekkid> just icons 19:32:58 <DJ_Nekkid> not tiny icon and "firefox" or whatever 19:33:09 <Ammler> I almost never use that 19:33:16 <Ammler> mostly Alt-F2 19:33:23 <Ammler> or console 19:33:26 <DJ_Nekkid> what is alt-f2 in windows? 19:33:47 <Ammler> run tool maybe 19:34:01 <DJ_Nekkid> ahh 19:34:02 <Ammler> a tiny windows on the center in my screen 19:34:07 <DJ_Nekkid> windows-button+R 19:34:19 *** DJ_Nekkid has quit IRC 19:34:22 <Ammler> where I can do everything, start a program, search, calc etc... 19:34:31 <DJNekkid> yup :) 19:35:26 <Ammler> http://imagebin.ca/view/Asiec1zi.html 19:35:27 <Webster> Title: plasma-desktopqB6464.jpg (at imagebin.ca) 19:38:06 <DJNekkid> nice! 19:40:12 <DJNekkid> where were i? 19:40:16 <DJNekkid> code 2cc set? 19:40:27 <DJNekkid> still heavent opened the text editor... 19:45:01 <OwenS> Ammler: My krunner has broken :s 19:45:06 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 297: Remove: combined file for trams <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/297> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 296: Remove: combined file for tractors <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/296> 19:45:28 <DJNekkid> whats a krunner? 19:45:31 <DJNekkid> KDE-runner? 19:45:48 <OwenS> The window Ammler linked to a picture of 19:47:42 <DJNekkid> my god damn it! 19:48:25 <DJNekkid> why cant people learn that one can NEVER EVER sing a Mariah Carey, Christina Auigilera and Celine Dion on a "Idol"-based show... 19:49:17 <DJNekkid> and Whiney Huston as well... 19:55:18 <Ammler> OwenS: KDE 4.4? 19:56:46 <OwenS> Ammler: 4.3.3 19:56:53 <Ammler> hmm, ok 19:57:11 <Ammler> on KDE 4.4, it wouldn't suprise me 19:57:12 <OwenS> Hmm, apt just installed some Plasma updates. Maybe it will be fixed nest restart 19:57:34 <Ammler> Sysinfo for 'inspiron': Linux 2.6.31.12-0.2-desktop running KDE 4.3.5 (KDE 4.3.5) "release 0", CPU: Intel(R) Core 2 CPU T5600 @ 1.83GHz at 1000 MHz (3657 bogomips), HD: 101/121GB, RAM: 1909/1988MB, 189 proc's, 2.13d up 19:58:14 <Ammler> that is default suse 11.2 installation 19:59:52 <Ammler> I do not know many "apt" users, who use KDE :-) 20:00:20 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 298: Change: renamed some defines <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/298> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 754: Fix: Textile Mill had wrong acceptance <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/754> 20:00:29 <OwenS> apt? You mean, Debian based distro users? :p 20:00:56 <Ammler> yes, you need to install special repos for it, don't you? 20:01:06 <OwenS> no 20:01:17 <OwenS> Debian and Ubuntu both provide KDE in their main repositories 20:03:33 <Ammler> so why is there a Kubuntu? 20:03:54 <OwenS> Kubuntu means you get KDE on the CD, instead of GNOME 20:04:36 <OwenS> On a Ubuntu machine you can install kubuntu-desktop to pull down KDE; on a KUbuntu machine you can install ubuntu-desktop to get GNOME; xubuntu-desktop and mythbuntu-desktop are also available 20:05:47 <Ammler> you know lsde? 20:05:50 <Ammler> lxde* 20:05:53 <OwenS> Heard of it 20:06:08 <Ammler> well, then you know around as much as me :-) 20:06:37 <Ammler> but I guess I will replace my xfce4 with on next setup there 20:07:35 <DJNekkid> i apparently have Gnome installed ... 20:07:38 <OwenS> Right, now OpenSolaris box, please successfully complete image-update 20:07:46 <DJNekkid> and the rumors say that KDE is better ... 20:08:02 <Ammler> DJNekkid: it is quite relative... 20:08:16 <Ammler> kde has just everything... 20:08:18 <DJNekkid> Ammler: you yourselves saied so a few days ago :) 20:08:22 <OwenS> GNOME is easier to use, but less featureful, and also more of a memory hog 20:08:52 <Ammler> gnome is like windows, you still have to search for 3rd party apps :-) 20:09:15 <Ammler> that is mostly not necessary with kde 20:09:59 <DJNekkid> pretty much the only thing i use on my linux box is Xchat and termina 20:10:00 <DJNekkid> l 20:10:06 <Ammler> well, some apps, I use 3rd party 20:10:10 <Ammler> like openoffice and gimp 20:10:40 <Ammler> yeah, konsole is also better than terminal ;-) 20:10:56 <Ammler> Konversation is better than xchat 20:11:34 <DJNekkid> is it worth the hassle to change? 20:11:44 <Ammler> not really, if you are happy 20:11:45 <OwenS> DJNekkid: What distro? 20:11:53 <Ammler> but you can easy run both... 20:12:12 <DJNekkid> OwenS: Centos 5.x 20:12:14 <Ammler> I have GNOME and xfce4 installed here 20:12:30 <Ammler> centos isn't a desktop distro 20:12:30 <OwenS> OK, CentOS I have no clue. Also, being as it is, it will have a rather out of date version 20:12:49 <DJNekkid> it also "just" a server 20:12:59 <DJNekkid> mainly a fileserver for personal use 20:13:06 <DJNekkid> plus a redmine i use at work 20:13:21 <DJNekkid> and i have a remote desktop running my irc client 20:13:30 <DJNekkid> and i build *.grf here 20:13:38 <DJNekkid> /there 20:14:19 <Ammler> yes, kde on centos might be quite old and buggy 20:14:44 <DJNekkid> now I probably is REALLY stupid 20:14:48 <Ammler> if you don't find kde > 4.3, don't install it 20:15:10 <DJNekkid> but how would KDE be old on one system, and new on another? 20:15:20 <DJNekkid> dont they all get "it" from the same place? 20:15:35 <DJNekkid> (or any other software for that matter) 20:15:38 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 300: Change: Red Peak crawler uses defines for IDs <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/300> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 299: Change: speedytracs use defines for IDs <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/299> 20:15:38 <Ammler> because centos uses acient versions of everything when it releases 20:15:43 <Ammler> worse than debian 20:15:57 <Ammler> but the advantage is, you have support until year 15 20:16:23 <Ammler> there are some 3rd party repos, you could try 20:17:37 <Ammler> I tried centos a year ago, it had already old php and python 20:17:53 <Ammler> and I have no idea, when centos 6 will be releases 20:18:39 <DJNekkid> i still have to little _real_ experience with linux to have any real oppinion 20:19:21 <Ammler> well, on server systems, you mostly like something you can setup and then let it run for 3-5 years 20:19:38 <Ammler> for such things, centos is perfect 20:20:58 <Ammler> but in my case (DevZone), centos failed with that I wasn't able to install the obs 20:21:13 <Ammler> because that required too new python 20:21:21 <Ammler> which is fixed in the meantime :-) 20:21:58 <Ammler> also wordpress or the wiki didn't work with default php 20:22:59 <Ammler> the big disadvantage we have now is that the support for our current distro stops next year 20:23:23 <DJNekkid> what is "support" in this context? 20:23:26 <Ammler> so if we are too lazy for upgrade, we wouldn't get any security fixes anymore. 20:24:07 *** OwenS has quit IRC 20:27:28 <Ammler> but nowadays, distro upgrade is quite easy 20:27:41 <Ammler> in our case just a "zypper dup" 20:28:00 <Ammler> so the only work, we have is to keep apps running with new version 20:30:14 <DJNekkid> wow 20:30:28 <DJNekkid> Axel Lund Svindal is a quite good dancer :) 20:30:44 *** OwenS has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:32:51 <DJNekkid> either way, if/when i install a distro sometime, i'll do KDE and not gnome 20:36:05 <Ammler> you know, which distro I use :-P 20:37:21 <DJNekkid> O-something :) 20:38:11 <Ammler> no o-something 20:39:28 <Rubidium> oebuntu? 20:40:33 <DJNekkid> the next time i'll ask you Ammler :) 20:41:22 <Ammler> you did already the last time :-P 20:41:41 <DJNekkid> probably, but i probably never got a good awnser :) 20:41:46 <Ammler> well, it might be you asked on the time, we tried out CentOS self 20:41:47 <DJNekkid> and, good for you ... 20:42:52 <DJNekkid> it were a RL friend who works in a IT company who recomended me CentOS 20:43:45 <OwenS> Pfft. Ammler is a silly SuSE user 20:43:52 <Ammler> NO 20:44:06 <Ammler> SuSE is gone like 5 years 20:44:12 <Ammler> it is SUSE now :-P 20:44:34 <DJNekkid> i have, and always had, a feeling that the "hardcore" linux users always fight and bitchslap eachother ... 20:44:43 <DJNekkid> X is best, no Y is best, no Z is best 20:44:53 <DJNekkid> X-users are pussys 20:44:54 <Ammler> yes, isn't that nice 20:44:58 <DJNekkid> Y-users are cocks 20:45:01 <OwenS> Hem. I'm also an OpenSolaris user :p 20:45:05 <DJNekkid> Z-users have big cocks! 20:45:07 <Ammler> just using linux doesn't stop from comparing 20:45:39 <DJNekkid> and even... 20:45:50 <DJNekkid> a X-user can say ... Windows is better then Y 20:45:55 <Ammler> sometimes, teh fights between linux distros are worse than linux -> windows 20:46:03 <DJNekkid> ^^ 20:46:41 <DJNekkid> exactly 20:46:49 <DJNekkid> www.icanhazcheeseburger.com :åp 20:48:40 <Rubidium> I think Debian is the best distro from all distros that have a Linux, FreeBSD and GNU Hurd kernel 20:49:36 <DJNekkid> hmm 20:49:41 <DJNekkid> what were the name of that 3rd movie.. 20:51:59 <Ammler> http://distrowatch.com/ 20:52:00 <Webster> Title: DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD. (at distrowatch.com) 20:52:27 <Rubidium> (but then, to be fair... I think Debian is the only that has all three kernels and is not abandonned) 20:55:45 <Ammler> also architecture is quite limited on suse 20:56:20 <Ammler> only the well known x86_64 and i686 20:56:34 <DJNekkid> *sitting here, smiling, knowing nothing, but still enjoying the bitchslaping* :) 20:58:39 <Ammler> gentoo is quite low on distrowatch 20:59:30 <Rubidium> andythenorth: do you have the bug sprite icon thingy somewhere in pcx or so? Or do I have to cut it from the screenshot? 20:59:52 <andythenorth> Rubidium: yep, I'll post a png in that thread in a minute.... 21:02:16 <andythenorth> Rubidium: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=47679&p=865517#p865517 21:02:17 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - "Inspect in place" - newgrf info displayed for debugging (at www.tt-forums.net) 21:02:36 <andythenorth> I can pcx if you need.... 21:04:08 <Ammler> a bug! 21:08:07 <DJNekkid> i want a GiG tonight! 21:08:42 <DJNekkid> i wonder... whom is playing out tonight 21:09:13 <DJNekkid> Øyvind... 21:09:15 <DJNekkid> bah 21:09:22 <DJNekkid> he isnt particulary good 21:10:32 <Ammler> DJNekkid: did you check linux world for dj software already? 21:10:40 <DJNekkid> nope 21:10:46 <DJNekkid> andtbh, it dont interest me 21:11:08 <DJNekkid> there is VERY VERY little good DJ software 21:11:30 <Ammler> tractor or so 21:11:37 <DJNekkid> with a K even 21:11:55 <Ammler> is that the software you use? 21:11:56 <DJNekkid> and that is produced by the quite respected Native Instruments 21:12:01 <DJNekkid> i dont use any 21:12:11 <DJNekkid> as i dont find them precise enough 21:12:30 <DJNekkid> CD/Vinyl > any tested software 21:12:36 <DJNekkid> i heavtent tested Serato yet 21:12:46 <Ammler> ok, but how you bridge a pause or so? 21:12:58 <DJNekkid> what do u mean? 21:13:26 <Ammler> don't you need to be able to make a list of about 5 songs which play automatically 21:13:33 <DJNekkid> no 21:13:45 <DJNekkid> i never use any autoplay function 21:13:48 <DJNekkid> i always mix live 21:14:16 <Ammler> so if you pause, it is silent :-) 21:14:24 <DJNekkid> it _would_ be 21:14:30 <DJNekkid> but why would i want a pause? :) 21:14:36 <Ammler> toilette? 21:14:41 <Ammler> :-D 21:14:45 <DJNekkid> hehe 21:14:52 <KenjiE20> thats when you cue a 5min track :P 21:14:53 <DJNekkid> then i gotta be quick, dont i? :) 21:14:58 <DJNekkid> 5min? 21:15:04 <DJNekkid> usually 8 or so :) 21:15:08 <KenjiE20> depends what you need :) 21:15:22 <KenjiE20> Iron Maiden 10min solos are good for long ones 21:15:23 <DJNekkid> usually a beer on the way back 21:15:23 <KenjiE20> :P 21:15:29 <Rubidium> oh planetmaker... OpenGFX is one sprite short 21:15:39 <Ammler> :-P 21:15:55 <DJNekkid> but from joke to gun ... 21:16:00 <DJNekkid> that dint work in english 21:16:12 <DJNekkid> either way 21:16:20 <DJNekkid> i _usually_ play in my own city 21:16:32 <DJNekkid> and here we have a quite good DJ-enviroment 21:16:38 <DJNekkid> we all know eachother 21:17:19 <DJNekkid> and we trust eachother, so when i dont have a gig, and im partying, i usually visit the other DJ's, and if they need me to, i do a mix for them, so they can get a drink, take a smoke, go to the toilette 21:17:24 <DJNekkid> and vica verca 21:17:31 <DJNekkid> plus... 21:17:46 <DJNekkid> i've made a handful of "mini-mixes" that last 3 tunes 21:18:08 <DJNekkid> so i can go and get a drink and go to the toilette if needed without any stress 21:18:17 <DJNekkid> 3 tunes = 12ish minutes 21:18:44 <DJNekkid> *monolouge 4tw* 21:20:50 <DJNekkid> Rubidium: are there any good online sites where one can learn dutch? 21:21:20 <frosch123> rb is certainly the best choice to ask :p 21:21:47 <DJNekkid> he is dutch, isnt he? atleast he is in my head :) 21:22:06 <frosch123> yup, and he learnt durch from the internet 21:22:20 <frosch123> :p 21:23:12 <DJNekkid> but he might know of any good sites? i could probably find a couple of similar norwegian ones 21:23:59 <DJNekkid> i mean ... 21:24:31 <DJNekkid> if i would like to learn a language, wouldnt it be better to ask he or she if they knew any place to learn it, rather then ... you? :P 21:24:34 <frosch123> really? ok, i wouldn't know a german site 21:24:45 <Rubidium> why would you want to learn Dutch? 21:25:31 <DJNekkid> because i travel to the Amsterdam region about 2 times a year 21:26:01 <DJNekkid> and we are concidering to move to Holland (or Netherlands or what the _real_ proper term is) 21:26:18 <Ammler> hmm, how to test the new gui button? 21:26:28 <Rubidium> technically Holland is only two of the twelve provinces 21:26:30 <KenjiE20> Holland is part of the Netherlands iirc 21:27:03 <DJNekkid> why im not 100% sure what the proper term is 21:27:09 <DJNekkid> /name 21:27:24 <DJNekkid> as in norwegian we use both "Holland" and "Nederland" 21:27:26 <KenjiE20> depends where you're going :) 21:27:53 <DJNekkid> i usually say Nederland tho 21:28:16 <DJNekkid> "we are going to the Netherlands in a few weeks" 21:30:51 <Rubidium> but to be honest, I've got no clue where to find decent lessons 21:31:23 <DJNekkid> i guess you guys speak enlighs just as good as us :) 21:31:27 <DJNekkid> *english 21:33:07 <DJNekkid> how fare have the fiber optic network building come in .nl ? :) 21:34:22 <Rubidium> Ammler: http://rbijker.net/openttd/tmp.diff (industry view has the sprite) 21:34:39 <Rubidium> DJNekkid: depends, some places have it, some don't 21:35:39 <DJNekkid> oki :) 21:47:22 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Revision 400: Feature [#869]: gui icon for debug tools <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/400> || OpenGFX - Feature #869 (New): GUI: debug icon <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/869> 21:53:22 <DJNekkid> why do girls with a high pitched voice sound so god damn stupid? 21:54:50 <Ammler> some time ago, I listen to a cover band, which made witney huston 21:54:56 <Ammler> well really long ago 21:55:21 <Ammler> it was a man signing that part 21:57:09 <DJNekkid> rofl 21:59:46 <Ammler> michal jackson like 22:02:51 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 302: Change: further improved tram sprites <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/302> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 301: Change: seriously improved tram sprites <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/301> 22:06:06 <DJNekkid> omg! Team Harald could not win that! 22:08:06 <DJNekkid> We have a talkshow here... "Senkveld" (Latenight or something simiar) with two hosts 22:08:20 <DJNekkid> and the last couple of seasons have they had "Camp Senkveld" 22:08:41 <DJNekkid> where they have gathered some norwegian celebs 22:09:55 <DJNekkid> and thoose two hosts compete against eachother, with their teams, in various things, from Fitness, 10.000m skates, childerens theatre, car raceing 22:10:12 <DJNekkid> and today the best team lost 23:01:08 *** ODM has quit IRC 23:20:56 <Doorslammer> I laways imagined Senkveld as a cheap production Dutch comedy about nothing 23:21:42 <Doorslammer> With his neighbours van der Kramer, Georg and Elaijne 23:21:54 <Doorslammer> "Guten tag, Neumann!" they all say 23:30:43 *** Seberoth has quit IRC 23:35:37 <DJNekkid> Doorslammer: you know the norwegian show? 23:38:10 <Doorslammer> No 23:38:43 <Doorslammer> Im just talking rubbish as usual 23:39:00 <DJNekkid> ahh... 23:46:33 *** frosch123 has quit IRC