Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 31st March 2010:
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08:06:59  <planetmaker> moin
09:14:25  <Ammler> moin planetmaker :-)
09:14:48  <Ammler> I would like a new nfo pre processor step
09:14:57  <Ammler> bash-nfo
09:15:45  <Ammler> how do I teach the Makefile so it does automatically parse for example bnfo thourgh shell?
09:16:56  <Ammler> $SHELL sprites/newgrf.bnfo > sprites/newgrf.pnfo
09:38:11  <Ammler> %.pnfo: %.bnfo
09:38:12  <Ammler> 	$(_E) "[Generating] $@ with dep $^"
09:38:14  <Ammler> 	$(_V) $(BASH) $< > $(SRC_DIR)/$@
10:29:57  <Ammler> or $(SHELL) but that I can't test properly
10:30:55  <Ammler> same could be done with python
10:31:03  <Ammler> pynfo
10:36:55  <Rubidium> $(SHELL) will give a lot of trouble due to bashisms I fear
10:37:06  <Rubidium> and $(BASH), does that actually exist?
10:37:17  <Rubidium> there is no /bin/bash on MinGW!
10:37:59  <Ammler> well, I can life with that
10:38:31  <Ammler> I would like to migrate my bash-nfos to the Makefile framework
10:39:17  <Ammler> and there I use things which cpp doesn't support
10:39:23  <Ammler> like for
10:40:06  <Ammler> hmm, I guess, mingw doesn't work anyway anymore
10:40:20  <Ammler> afaik, grep isn't compatible
10:40:54  <Ammler> we should maybe update our Windows Setup Howto ;-)
10:46:34  * Rubidium is still 'in dubio' whether to do a new OpenSFX release
10:50:32  <Ammler> oh, is tomorrow 1.0.0 day?
10:50:44  <Ammler> (this night)
10:51:26  <Ammler> ogfx should release a 0.2.3
10:52:32  <Ammler> IMO, packaging should be possible without any troubles the first release, don't like that workaround feeling...
11:00:49  <planetmaker> <-- Ammler
11:01:19  <planetmaker> * Rubidium is still 'in dubio' whether to do a new OpenSFX release <-- he, same here for OpenGFX
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11:27:14  <planetmaker> Rubidium, would it still make sense to release OpenGFX 0.2.3 and what advantage would it possibly pose for OpenTTD 1.0.0?
11:28:31  <Rubidium> for sanity of external packaging it would make sense
11:28:54  <Ammler> planetmaker: so the code I pasted is fine
11:29:21  <Rubidium> given that updating opengfx/opensfx likely happens whenever they are updating the OpenTTD package, doing it before the release is probably better
11:29:22  <Ammler> but how does the Makefile determine, which files it needs to parse?
11:29:53  <planetmaker> Ammler, it parses always.
11:30:04  <Rubidium> it's a waste of 15+ GB of bandwidth, but who really cares?
11:30:15  <planetmaker> Rubidium, hu?
11:30:26  <planetmaker> you mean of already downloaded OpenGFX?
11:30:26  <Ammler> you still have traffic issues?
11:30:44  <Rubidium> 1000 * OpenSFX@10 MiB + 1000*OpenGFX@5 MiB
11:30:47  <Ammler> traffic is something we can waste too
11:31:10  <Ammler> I would like to spend 1 TB traffic for a bit more memory ;-)
11:31:33  <Rubidium> we're now at ~33% of the bandwidth we may use
11:31:45  <Rubidium> and oddly enough, with 1.0.0 I expect that to drop :)
11:31:56  <planetmaker> why?
11:32:23  <Rubidium> about 10 of the 20 GB a day is bananas old protocol
11:32:40  <Ammler> not balancing over mirrors?
11:32:40  <planetmaker> which pulls only from your server, not the mirrors, yes?
11:32:53  <Rubidium> planetmaker: exactly
11:33:46  <Ammler> [13:29] <planetmaker> Ammler, it parses always. <-- what does that have to do with bnfo?
11:34:20  <planetmaker> Ammler, if you include a rule for creating pnfo from bnfo in, you'll always have that executed
11:35:13  <Ammler> so I need to setup something %.bnfo: hello.bnfo wolrd.bnfo...?
11:35:26  <planetmaker> did you see the paste I posted?
11:35:40  <Ammler> yes, that looks like a copy I pasted
11:36:00  <planetmaker> I didn't look at anything when writing that ;-)
11:36:13  <Ammler> [11:38] <Ammler> %.pnfo: %.bnfo
11:36:15  <Ammler> [11:38] <Ammler> $(_E) "[Generating] $@ with dep $^"
11:36:16  <Ammler> [11:38] <Ammler> $(_V) $(BASH) $< > $(SRC_DIR)/$@
11:36:40  <planetmaker> Rubidium, if it helps, I'm fine with releasing OpenGFX 0.2.3
11:37:06  <Rubidium> okay, lets do it then :)
11:37:09  <planetmaker> Dunno how many of the package maintainers built something. I don't know where to check :-)
11:37:19  <Ammler> fedora did
11:37:25  <Rubidium> probably only fedora :)
11:37:40  <Rubidium> Debian is kinda delayed at the moment :(
11:38:19  <Ammler> if suse doesn't automatically, I will make a submit request, but after the openttd release
11:39:32  <Ammler> but it seems, I am the only one, who likes to have dedicated version
11:39:52  <Ammler> no official support :-(
11:42:07  <Ammler> Hmm, I should also add a FS post about sharing dir, finally...
11:42:14  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Revision 408: Change: Update changelog <>
11:45:30  <Rubidium> I won't have time for OpenSFX till tonight though
11:45:54  <Ammler> planetmaker: maybe Makefile could detect that tip is just a commit about adding a tag and update to the mentioned tag before building?
11:47:02  <Ammler> (and update back to tip again)
11:47:29  <planetmaker> Ammler, sounds unnecessarily complicated.
11:47:43  <Rubidium> and then your nightly will build a release compile?
11:47:48  <planetmaker> and won't help the speed of makefiles
11:47:54  <Ammler> Rubidium: that is the idea, indeed
11:50:57  <planetmaker> Ammler, I don't like that idea. More trouble than it's worth.
11:51:18  <planetmaker> OpenGFX 0.2.3 pushed to
11:53:23  <planetmaker> uploading to bananas
11:54:12  <planetmaker> hm... that takes long... :S
12:03:12  <planetmaker> uploaded to Bananas, Rubidium
12:03:26  <planetmaker> got a time-out error the first time. Why ever.
12:04:07  <Ammler> planetmaker: your tar.gz fails
12:04:21  <Ammler> maybe the same with the binary zip
12:04:35  <planetmaker> what fails?
12:04:40  <Ammler> didn't you have that issue already
12:05:07  <Ammler> + /bin/tar -xf /usr/src/packages/SOURCES/opengfx-0.2.3-source.tar.gz
12:05:08  <Ammler> /bin/tar: This does not look like a tar archive
12:05:41  <planetmaker> yes tar xfz
12:05:45  <planetmaker> it's gziped
12:06:08  <planetmaker> I always test the source release to work before I upload anything.
12:06:25  <Ammler> yes, did you make those on osx?
12:06:31  <planetmaker> this one: no
12:06:37  <planetmaker> you miss the unzip step
12:07:19  <planetmaker> you miss the option "z" in your call to tar
12:07:38  <Ammler> something with bundles broken then?
12:07:42  <planetmaker> no
12:07:45  <planetmaker> you miss the option "z" in your call to tar
12:07:48  <Ammler> menno
12:08:21  <Ammler> if it doesn't detect a proper gzip, it doesn't use gunzip
12:08:38  <planetmaker> tar xfz opengfx-0.2.3-source.tar.gz
12:08:41  <planetmaker> works nicely for me
12:09:12  <Ammler> with a download from bundles?
12:09:23  <planetmaker> no with the file I uploaded to bundles
12:09:34  <Ammler> then please try to download that file again
12:09:36  <planetmaker> maybe permissions there are (again!) wrong
12:10:29  <Ammler> I hope, it is the last time, you needed to do it... :-)
12:10:38  <planetmaker> try again maybe. I set everything in the release dir to a+r
12:10:54  <Ammler> worked
12:11:08  <planetmaker> then you didn't check the md5sums of the files you downloaded ;-)
12:11:15  <planetmaker> which a package maintainer might want to do :-P
12:11:30  <planetmaker> lalala :-)
12:12:09  <Ammler> didn't I told you the archive is wrong?
12:12:29  <Ammler> I did nothing, the obs did
12:13:40  <Ammler> if filesize is 0, I don't need to check md5sum...
12:14:27  <Ammler> error: File /usr/src/packages/SOURCES/opengfx-0.2.3-source.tar.gz is smaller than 13 bytes
12:14:54  <Ammler> I should have pasted that :-P
12:16:32  <Ammler> anyway, suse factory successfully fails now ;-)
12:18:03  <Ammler>
12:19:06  <planetmaker> I need a login for that page...
12:19:24  <Ammler> ah, true, well
12:19:41  <Ammler> it just outputs the diff and then exits
12:20:01  <Ammler> all other distros successfully finished
12:22:06  <Ammler> will you release a new msx too?
12:23:03  <planetmaker> Probably I should. But not right now. Maybe later today
12:23:55  <Ammler> then I don't update that package
12:24:10  <Ammler> still 0.1.0
12:25:46  <Ammler> 0.2.0 is there too?
12:27:16  <planetmaker> There's 0.2.1, I think. Dunno, check bananas ;-)
12:27:38  <planetmaker> yup
12:36:21  <Ammler> yes, but I do not update then, if you release a new version today :-)
13:08:20  <Ammler> planetmaker: let us try to teach contributors using templates ;-)
13:17:00  <Rubidium> ah yes.. OpenSFX release
13:24:52  <Rubidium> bah...
13:25:12  <planetmaker> hm?
13:25:22  <Rubidium> how to remove something from a hg repository's log? (not  yet pushed, rollback doesn't roll back enough)
13:25:39  <Rubidium> made a typo in the changelog, want to fix that without an extra commit
13:25:48  <planetmaker> oh... rollback doesn't work anymore?
13:25:56  <planetmaker> hm... difficult
13:26:34  <Ammler> strip
13:26:45  <Ammler> but that needs mq extension
13:26:53  <Ammler> (afaik)
13:26:57  <Rubidium> thanks
13:27:13  <Ammler> you didn't push yet?
13:27:37  <Ammler> because stripping from server repo might cause troubles :-)
13:28:05  <Rubidium> yeah, I didn't push yet
13:28:25  <Ammler> or simply clone to the specific rev
13:31:44  <Ammler> does the order I define targets matter?
13:31:55  <Ammler> make md5 bundle_zip or make bundle_zip md5?
13:32:28  <Ammler> nightly ^
13:32:43  <Ammler> make md5 bundle_zip bundle_src <-- release
13:33:44  <Ammler> nightly files: *.zip *.md5 / release files: *.zip *.tar.gz *.md5
13:33:47  <Ammler> something I miss?
13:34:50  <Ammler> readme.txt, sprites/*.nfo
13:36:32  <Ammler> for example the obg file?
13:37:22  <Ammler> (sprites/*.nfo for nightlies only)
13:39:22  <Ammler> I still not sure, if we should allow everyone to enable/configure nightly/release generation
13:39:37  <Ammler> am*
13:40:33  <Ammler> or rather how far...
13:48:19  <Rubidium> yay, mirrors synced :)
13:48:42  <Rubidium> laggy internet ain't no fun
13:52:21  <Ammler>
14:04:22  <Brot6> opengfx: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
14:05:52  <Ammler> hmm, can be silenced ^
14:06:12  <planetmaker> probably
14:07:23  <Rubidium> probably? just /ignore Brot6 and it's silenced
14:08:34  <Ammler> make: *** No rule to make target `Makefile.dep', needed by `depend'.  Stop. <-- not that verbose anymore :-)
14:08:44  <Ammler> (missing file)
14:10:27  <planetmaker> hmpf. try again without change of anything
14:10:36  <Ammler> ?
14:10:51  <planetmaker> make clean && make
14:11:02  <Ammler> if I don't change anything, I don't get the error
14:11:10  <planetmaker> ?
14:11:19  <Ammler> I renamed a file
14:11:23  <Ammler> (simulating error)
14:11:27  <planetmaker> aaaaarg!
14:11:30  <Ammler> :-D
14:11:36  <Ammler> sorry
14:11:47  <planetmaker> Please! Tell me when you post errors which are none-errors
14:11:57  <planetmaker> Or skip posting them
14:12:05  <Ammler> well, it is a error
14:12:22  <planetmaker> but an expected one
14:12:28  <Ammler> the error is that the error message doesn't tell what is wrong
14:12:48  <planetmaker> hm, ok
14:13:03  <planetmaker> I thought I fixed that. Obviously I didn't properly or I un-fixed it again.
14:13:03  <Rubidium> but that's more a bug of make I'd say
14:13:07  <Ammler> hmm
14:13:16  <Ammler> maybe I should update to tip
14:13:34  <planetmaker> ...
14:13:35  <Ammler> r406 that is
14:14:37  <Rubidium> if (find bug) { update repository first; if (still find bug) { whine }}
14:15:04  <Ammler> I do not whine :-P
14:15:04  <planetmaker> :-D
14:18:36  <planetmaker> hm... indeed I'd call that an error of make
14:19:13  <planetmaker> ogfxe_extra.pnfo: blubber.pnfo
14:19:23  <planetmaker> Makefile.dep: ogfxe_extra.pnfo
14:19:30  <planetmaker> and then I get your error message
14:21:07  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenSFX - Revision 88: Added tag 0.2.3 for changeset 5d5a06d1e7eb <> || OpenSFX - Revision 87: -Update: changelog / readme <>
14:23:50  <Ammler> planetmaker:
14:24:13  <Ammler> hmm, why doesn't it open the .log in the browser?
14:26:18  <planetmaker> it used to before, right?
14:26:49  <planetmaker> besides I installed the "Open in Browser" add-on :-)
14:27:02  <planetmaker> It helps for wrongly configured things ;-)
14:29:17  <Ammler> I still would like to fix that server side
14:30:01  <planetmaker> :-)
14:30:18  <planetmaker> mime type txt or alike, I think
14:32:40  <Ammler> that is in mime-types: text/x-log log
14:32:54  <Ammler> but how to tell apache that this is a display file?
14:33:04  <Ammler> or shall I just change it?
14:33:26  <Rubidium> just change the mime type of log to text/plain
14:35:59  <Ammler> planetmaker: <-- that is, if I remove base.pnfo
14:36:23  <Ammler> something is broken...
14:36:43  <Ammler> right?
14:37:18  <Ammler> I will continue...
14:39:54  <planetmaker> hm... ogfx1_base.pnfo? Well... I expect an error, if that file is missing :-)
14:40:47  <planetmaker> agreeably, it'd be nice to be told the name of the missing file...
14:42:42  <Ammler> I am quite sure, it did
14:43:05  <Ammler> pre new framework
14:43:38  <Ammler> maybe also after
14:43:52  <Ammler> I thought, that is one of the reasons for the dep check?
15:09:55  <planetmaker> well... yes and no
15:10:16  <planetmaker> main reason is that it shows at all that something is missing and not silently includes some kind of empty file or so.
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15:36:53  <DJ_Nekkid> planetmaker: does the "new" make-system sort of build alot of the files up again? my pspad autoreload if any file is changed, and alot is asked to reload when i run make
15:36:55  <DJ_Nekkid> (2cc set)
15:38:33  <planetmaker> uhm... it might touch some files.
15:41:45  <DJ_Nekkid> okidoki
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15:43:51  <DJ_Nekkid> and here is another issue for you...
15:44:06  <DJ_Nekkid> if i update a .pcx, i need to 'make remake'
15:44:27  <planetmaker> you shouldn't need to.
15:44:29  <planetmaker> which one?
15:44:56  <DJ_Nekkid> but sometimes i put the sprites in a wrong location in the bluebox
15:45:11  <planetmaker> and: do you work with the newest version?
15:45:11  <DJ_Nekkid> and thus i need to "make" again :)
15:45:32  <planetmaker> I mean I changed there some things yesterday as you may or may not have noticed ;-)
15:45:49  <DJ_Nekkid> ahh, didnt notice that yet
15:45:56  <planetmaker> I have r496
15:46:19  <planetmaker> I even set the issue on the devzone to feedback to you... :S
15:46:23  <planetmaker> did you read that?
15:47:08  <DJ_Nekkid> nope, not that either :P
15:47:20  <planetmaker> Do you have e-mail notifications turned on for issues which you watch? If not, you should ;-)
15:47:26  <planetmaker> Or it's basically useless.
15:48:06  <DJ_Nekkid> i have it on, but my current mail account (hotmail) gets too much spam lately
15:48:16  <planetmaker> thus...?
15:48:42  <DJ_Nekkid> i dont check it to often
15:48:43  <planetmaker> openttd stuff also goes to my most spammed account. But some intelligent sorting keeps spam count in my openttd folder to absolutely zero
15:49:13  <planetmaker> or add another address to the devzone. It's not like the address can be read by people who are not member.
15:50:12  <DJ_Nekkid> or optionally i can sort out my hotmail to accept less spam
15:50:24  <planetmaker> (I always use a real e-mail programme, not the webmail frontend)
15:50:43  <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid, just use an e-mail programme and move the e-mails you know into a dedicated folder
15:50:46  <planetmaker> ignore the rest
15:51:00  <planetmaker> all e-mail clients offer e-mail filtering client-side upon certain criteria.
15:51:19  <planetmaker> very useful. Spam remains in the (main) inbox, useful mail in their appropriate sub-folders
15:51:22  <DJ_Nekkid> yea...  i know...
15:52:05  <DJ_Nekkid> but then again,i need to get myself a "real" mail :)
15:52:40  <planetmaker> urgs...
15:52:41  <DJ_Nekkid> i guess i could just talk to "Forked" and he would remove my old ISP-account, and add a new one
15:53:11  <planetmaker> that won't change much
15:53:30  <planetmaker> at least in the mid-range time-frame.
15:53:58  <DJ_Nekkid> btw, to put it thisway
15:54:12  <DJ_Nekkid> i usually checkthe 2cc devzone activity daily or so
15:54:30  <DJ_Nekkid> and my hotmail account perhaps weekly, or when needed (registration to some crappy site or whatever)
15:54:30  <planetmaker> :-)
15:56:13  <DJ_Nekkid> "its always this newgrf that breaks my makefile" ...
15:56:25  <DJ_Nekkid> i hope that is good thing :)
15:56:30  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Bug #877: Dependency check faulty <>
15:56:41  <planetmaker> let's say: I'm itchy. This is today the 2nd time I'm asking "are you using the current version" and the answer is "I update"
15:57:10  <planetmaker> but yes, I didn't mean that comment in a negative way :-)
15:57:59  <planetmaker> ok, still: which pcx needs a re-make when you change it?
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15:59:07  <DJ_Nekkid> actually, now it rebuilds as intended :P
15:59:09  <DJ_Nekkid> :D:D:D:D
15:59:16  <planetmaker> *sigh*
15:59:55  <DJ_Nekkid> hehe
15:59:58  <DJ_Nekkid> sorry m8
16:00:27  <Ammler> you can hide the email from public
16:01:36  <planetmaker> it's alright :-)
16:03:10  <planetmaker> btw, DJ_Nekkid I'm currently working on a branch where I pull out all vehicle IDs in a separate ID file. Is that a problem?
16:03:37  <DJ_Nekkid> no, probably not?
16:03:56  <planetmaker> Not sure... you still use the excel file and then do some copy&paste thingy in order to write the vehicle specific action0s, including the ids?
16:03:56  <Ammler> probably :-)
16:04:29  <DJ_Nekkid> yes i still do :)
16:04:36  <planetmaker> so: probably ;-)
16:05:03  <planetmaker> can you remove the vehicle IDs? I would indeed try to achieve like some version which could work with TTDP
16:05:11  <planetmaker> Untested but in principle. Just for political reasons.
16:05:47  <planetmaker> And that would mean: complete vehicle re-numbering. But no problem when it's done before 2.0.0
16:06:03  <planetmaker> we just up the grfID then when I introduce that re-numbering.
16:06:30  <DJ_Nekkid> i actually want a new grfID for 2.0 anyway :)
16:06:33  <DJ_Nekkid> but;
16:06:47  <planetmaker> Don't worry about "too many vehicles". I know :-)
16:06:57  <DJ_Nekkid> i've always saied i'm gonna code this set for Openttd, and not patch
16:06:59  <planetmaker> That will require selection of some action7 magic
16:07:09  <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid, yes, but if it works despite?
16:07:42  <planetmaker> But exactly that's the point: if we can with little effort allow TTDP users use it, too. Make them happy.
16:07:44  <DJ_Nekkid> what if i add a 2nd coulumn, with "THIS_ID_PATCH" or something
16:07:54  <planetmaker> It removes also fuel from some heated discussions.
16:08:16  <DJ_Nekkid> and the then you "fix" the makefile ... "make ttdp"
16:08:17  <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid, no, not really. Just remove the IDs. They're not important really anyway for the vehicle, are they?
16:08:32  <planetmaker> Nah.
16:08:38  <DJ_Nekkid> and it inserts the patch IDs
16:09:01  <planetmaker> There's no reasons for this set to have this numbers as they are now.
16:09:12  <DJ_Nekkid> still needs a nice list over what IDs are used and not
16:09:20  <planetmaker> No one looks at the numbers anyway as they're used as NAME_ID anyway
16:09:36  <DJ_Nekkid> so, you mean some auto-asigning?
16:09:41  <planetmaker> and the nice list of IDs used will then be in exactly that, the vehicle_ids.pnfo file
16:09:47  <planetmaker> no, no auto-assigning
16:09:56  <planetmaker> It will need adding to that file
16:10:35  <planetmaker> But just using consecutive numbers is no difficult act.
16:10:51  <planetmaker> Just use the next available one.
16:12:08  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Bug #851 (Closed): Nightly builds are failing <> || 2cc train set - Bug #877 (Closed): Dependency check faulty <>
16:12:14  <DJ_Nekkid> i just hoped we didnt need a "regsel" file :) (that one is changed now, but like the old one)
16:13:46  <planetmaker> what was "regsel"?
16:14:16  <planetmaker> hm... good... TTDP allows per definition also extended byte IDs... that might be useful.
16:14:42  <planetmaker> but it will need skipping before :-)
16:14:56  <DJ_Nekkid> hmm...
16:15:06  <planetmaker> No big deal actually :-)
16:15:33  <planetmaker> I *hope* ;-)
16:16:01  <DJ_Nekkid> all code for "can vehicle be attached" is wordsize...
16:16:05  <DJ_Nekkid> (i.e. extended byte)
16:16:10  <planetmaker> or possibly easier: just sorting and skipping OpenTTD only vehicles via one big action7 :-)
16:16:29  <planetmaker> might be easier...
16:16:39  <planetmaker> hm, dunno
16:16:44  <DJ_Nekkid> hmm...
16:17:00  <DJ_Nekkid> i think i might have an idea
16:17:02  <DJ_Nekkid> sec
16:18:28  <DJ_Nekkid>
16:18:29  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: compile completely failed! :-( -
16:18:37  <Brot6> airportsplus: update from r43 to r43 done (0 errors) -
16:19:01  <Ammler> hmm
16:19:11  <Brot6> firs: update from r758 to r758 done (1 errors) -
16:19:29  <Brot6> fish: update from r257 to r257 done (1 errors) -
16:19:54  <Brot6> heqs: update from r309 to r309 done (0 errors) -
16:20:09  <Brot6> nutracks: update from r56 to r58 done (1 errors) -
16:21:33  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r408 to r408 done (0 errors) -
16:22:18  <Brot6> opensfx: update from r87 to r88 done (0 errors) -
16:22:26  <Brot6> snowlinemod: update from r10 to r10 done (0 errors) -
16:22:26  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a update: 32bpp-extra (r31), bros (r10), comic-houses (r69), nmts (r15), openmsx (r48), worldairlineset (r636)
16:23:16  <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid, but you don't really want to include everything twice, do you?
16:23:29  <planetmaker> Just skipping highID things in TTDP is sufficient
16:24:10  <planetmaker> what is possible - if you wish: add a line to the excel file which reads "skip for TTDP"
16:25:12  <planetmaker> Nevertheless use sequential numbering, Starting with id0...250 (TTDP things) and OpenTTD only additions start at 300 or so
16:25:17  <Ammler> you still work with excel as main source?
16:25:23  <planetmaker> :-(
16:25:53  <planetmaker> It makes *some* things which I never really got easier ;-)
16:26:06  <Ammler> I disagree
16:26:46  <Ammler> you could still save  the data as txt and use excel for calculations
16:27:15  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 498: Needed pcx-files for prev r <> || 2cc train set - Revision 497: Change: added gfx to the short boxcar <>
16:27:16  <planetmaker> That's your way. That's my way. But we don't do it. So...
16:27:21  <DJ_Nekkid> but then i need to save the calc-sheet twice...
16:27:44  <Ammler> why?
16:27:50  <DJ_Nekkid> i knowing myself, i WILL forget that
16:27:57  <DJ_Nekkid> as .ods/xls and as .txt
16:28:04  <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid, not really: Source could be txt. And an excel file with the calculations but empty stats which get pasted.
16:28:28  <planetmaker> dunno if an ods file can reference a csv file as source directly.
16:28:39  <planetmaker> But let's not digress there now
16:29:09  <DJ_Nekkid> arent we already at the point of agreeing to disagree upon the "Calc issue" ? :)
16:29:34  <Ammler> no
16:30:18  <Ammler> in past, we thought, you shouldn't use excel
16:30:41  <Ammler> now, we just say, save data in txt and use excel
16:31:17  <DJ_Nekkid> good thing i dont use Excel then :P
16:34:11  <DJ_Nekkid> :P
16:34:26  <DJ_Nekkid> and btw
16:34:48  <DJ_Nekkid> i tried to save the needed data in a file, but one of you removed it, as it werent needed...
16:34:55  <DJ_Nekkid> (a0.txt or someting)
16:35:08  <planetmaker> :-D
16:35:27  <planetmaker> I guess it was a non-descriptive name ;-)
16:35:40  <Ammler> logs should tell you who and why
16:36:31  <DJ_Nekkid> you know what is quite sad?
16:37:03  <planetmaker> I hope you'll tell us :-)
16:37:57  <DJ_Nekkid> very often, when i sit down, got sime inspiration to add new stuff, perphaps with a couple of beers or so ...
16:38:08  <DJ_Nekkid> in the mood to fix or _try_ to finish the set
16:38:20  <DJ_Nekkid> then i get the "stop useing excel"-bitching
16:38:25  <DJ_Nekkid> and it kills my hard-on...
16:38:42  <planetmaker> meh... :S
16:38:59  <planetmaker> that's why I didn't want that discussion actually. We had it already :-)
16:39:00  <KenjiE20> I get that, I get as far as notepad++ and staring at it
16:39:51  <Ammler> oh, you see it what way :-(
16:41:09  <planetmaker> Doesn't change that excel as source is... difficult :-)
16:41:39  <DJ_Nekkid> especially when it atually were Ammler idea in the first place
16:41:46  <planetmaker> hä?
16:41:53  <planetmaker> Certainly not, I assume
16:42:20  <planetmaker> there was already an excel file when the devzone opened, wasn't there?
16:42:35  <DJ_Nekkid> it were something like:"You could actually pretty much code the entire set in excel"
16:42:41  <DJ_Nekkid> planetmaker yes it was
16:43:18  <planetmaker> yeah, I remember that. Oh well.
16:43:26  <DJ_Nekkid> but in the first one did i take the stuff from it and put it directly into the nfo"
16:43:55  <planetmaker> what's different? Now it's pnfo
16:44:07  <DJ_Nekkid> i did look at a number
16:44:09  <DJ_Nekkid> lets say 56
16:44:16  <DJ_Nekkid> then i did put it behind a \b :)
16:44:38  <planetmaker> yes, the export process was a bit optimized. And the import process. But the principle remained.
16:45:08  <DJ_Nekkid> yup...
16:45:24  <DJ_Nekkid> now it is "#define SOME_STUFF \b56"
16:45:53  <planetmaker> yup, I know.
16:46:42  <planetmaker> I guess *if* I'd start a new set, I'd do it like with the houses:
16:46:49  <planetmaker> a plain text table
16:47:00  <DJ_Nekkid> but;
16:47:07  <planetmaker> and write a nice pythong scripty which transforms it into action0s and defines
16:47:08  <DJ_Nekkid> houses dont need any calculations
16:47:27  <planetmaker> calculations are trivial in python
16:47:46  <DJ_Nekkid> afk 5, makeing a pizza-bottom-dough
16:49:14  <planetmaker> <-- here I do the calculation of the callback flags. See the lowest function get_flags(string)
16:50:57  <planetmaker> and IDs of the other tiles of multi-tile houses are also generated.
16:51:31  <planetmaker> and the start and end year for the short intro year version.
16:52:10  <planetmaker> granted... it's awk :-O
16:52:21  <planetmaker> Still... python would do it, too
16:55:12  <DJ_Nekkid> longyear=shoryear*365,24? :)
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17:01:35  <DJNekkid> im bored!
17:11:52  <Rubidium> DJNekkid: then make free samples for OpenSFX!
17:14:02  <DJNekkid> does i look like am i sampler? :P
17:14:16  <Ammler> yes :-)
17:14:43  <Ammler> you are artist!
17:15:19  <DJNekkid> i do have a mic... i can probably make some oral sounds?
17:15:28  <Ammler> :-)
17:17:20  <DJNekkid> btw, i thought all samples in opensfx were free?
17:17:23  <DJNekkid> (/gpl)
17:17:31  <planetmaker> but not free as in GPL :-)
17:17:44  <Ammler> no commericial useable
17:17:57  <DJNekkid> but openttd isnt a commercial product anyway is it?
17:18:23  <Ammler> I want to sell openttd cd :-P
17:19:07  <Rubidium> DJNekkid: it doesn't allow you to sell CDs with OpenTTD + OpenSFX on it, even at or less than cost price
17:19:40  <DJNekkid> but afk again, need some sourcream for this pizza... 3 chillis were perhaps a bit too much :P
17:22:23  <planetmaker> three chilis? Cannot be too much ;-)
17:22:55  <Ammler> one might be already
17:23:40  <planetmaker> depends, surely. But not on a pizza
17:23:55  <planetmaker> Unless you take one of those Jualapenios or so
17:24:06  <planetmaker> (however you spell them)
17:31:06  <DJNekkid> jalapeno (in a jar) are actually less hot then fresh red chillis
17:32:02  <planetmaker> that depends :-)
17:32:07  <Rubidium> probably because those jarred ones are made for the "western"-ish market
17:32:45  <planetmaker> We have some Jalapeno oil. Three drops on a Pizza and it's as spicy as if you gave it a decent number of small red chillis.
17:33:49  <DJNekkid> Rubidium: no doubt...
17:33:56  <DJNekkid> we had a Habanero on once...
17:34:03  <DJNekkid> thoose ones give nice kick!
17:34:28  <planetmaker> ah, yes. Habanero oil was it :-)
17:34:50  <DJNekkid> not such a streight-in-your-face kick as normal chillis, but it have a more "aftertaste" kick!
17:35:04  <DJNekkid> its more "heat" then "hot" if you get me
17:35:31  <Rubidium> hmm, paprikas and jalapeno peppers have roughly the same scoville rating
17:35:43  <DJNekkid> on a scale from 1-10 red chillis are about 3,5... Habanero is 10 :)
17:35:59  <DJNekkid> on a scale from 1-10 red chillis are about 3,5... Habanero is 10 :D
17:36:09  <DJNekkid> bah
17:36:34  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: (and others who wants one) Kristine gives a big easterhug :D
17:36:53  <Rubidium> on a scale 0-10, Habanero is 10 and jalapenos 0.05 or so
17:36:53  <planetmaker> :-) Give her one, too :-)
17:37:45  <DJNekkid> :D
17:38:30  <DJNekkid> im just telling what were on a chilli package :)
17:50:21  <Ammler> does 64px house sprite also have -31 offset?
17:50:32  <planetmaker> IIRC yes
17:50:58  <Ammler> then it wouldn't matter that much...,
17:51:15  <Ammler> maybe even better to use 64px?
17:51:50  <andythenorth> hmmm.....I wonder if I do bad sometimes with hg :P
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17:58:16  <Ammler> andythenorth: you forgot update to tip after making the release, I guess ;-)
17:58:24  <andythenorth> yup
17:58:29  <andythenorth> I always do :o
17:58:47  <andythenorth> and there was a change on the repo to pull as well :|
17:58:58  <andythenorth> so some merges now exist :P
17:59:03  <planetmaker> :-P
17:59:15  <Ammler> make a diff of your change, revert/rollback/strip
17:59:20  <planetmaker> I always do a hg pull -u immediately before I do a hg ci :-)
17:59:22  <Ammler> pull and update
17:59:25  <Ammler> commit push
17:59:35  <planetmaker> Merges don't hurt
18:00:42  <Ammler> yeah, up2you, I wouldn't merge because I forgot to update :-)
18:01:04  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 763: Fix: prevent unclosed loop in production cb seconda... <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 762: Fix: prevent unclosed loop in production cb seconda... <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 761: merge <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 759: Fix: prevent unclosed loop in production cb seconda... <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 760: merge <>
18:02:04  <Ammler> also rollback, update and commit might be easier than merge
18:04:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
18:04:27  <Brot6> firs: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
18:04:44  <Brot6> opensfx: Backup push to ssh:// initiated.
18:16:12  <planetmaker> Ammler: you might want to remove the question "Isn't that obvious?" in your OpenGFX posting ;-)
18:16:22  <planetmaker> It would make it sound way friendlier
18:18:01  <Ammler> well it was meant more against me
18:18:18  <planetmaker> yes, _I_ know :-) But it can be mis-read
18:19:00  <Ammler> fixed
18:20:02  <planetmaker> Ammler: I'm not sure whether his sprites need alignment left-right. But I guess it's ok. Did you check so far?
18:20:40  <Ammler> I wrote what's wrong
18:21:00  <Ammler> the construction stage house is aligned to top instead bottom
18:21:20  <Ammler> and no, I didn't check it deeper :-)
18:22:16  <Ammler> well, it is already quite easy to code...
18:27:59  <planetmaker> :-)
18:59:00  <PeterT> Ammler / planetmaker: Brot6 working yet?
19:00:46  <planetmaker> !hello
19:00:46  <Brot6> yo planetmaker!
19:01:21  <PeterT> !help
19:01:21  <Brot6> PeterT: help topics: 10 core modules: auth, basics, config, filters, httputil, irclog, remote, unicode, userdata, wordlist; 80 plugins: alias, autoop, autorejoin, azgame, bans, bash, botsnack, cal, chanserv, chucknorris, debug, deepthoughts, delicious, dice, dict, digg, dns, eightball, excuse, factoids, figlet, forecast, fortune, freshmeat, geoip, googlefight, greet, grouphug, hangman, hl2, host, imdb, insult, iplookup, karma, keywords,
19:01:21  <Brot6> lart, lastfm, linkbot, markov, math, modes, nickrecover, nickserv, note, q, quiz, quote, reaction, realm, remind, remotectl, ri, roshambo, rot, roulette, rss, salut, script, search, seen, shiritori, slashdot, spell, spotify, theyfightcrime, threat, topic, translator, tube, tumblr, twitter, uno, urban, url, usermodes, weather, wheeloffortune, wserver, youtube; 3 plugins ignored: use help ignored plugins to see why (help <topic> for
19:01:23  <Brot6> more info)
19:01:23  <PeterT> !jo
19:01:27  <PeterT> !uno
19:01:27  <Brot6> PeterT: Ok, created UNO! game on #openttdcoop.devzone, say 'jo' to join in
19:01:31  <PeterT> !jo
19:01:31  <Brot6> PeterT joins this game of UNO!
19:02:20  <Ammler> don't think, this is the channel for that :-)
19:02:26  <PeterT> hehe :-)
19:02:31  <PeterT> !stop uno
19:02:36  <PeterT> !qu
19:02:56  <PeterT> [15:02:49] <PeterT> !uno
19:02:57  <PeterT> [15:02:49] <Brot6> the command must not be given in private
19:03:00  <PeterT> :-(
19:03:56  <KenjiE20> 20:02:35       Ammler | don't think, this is the channel for that :-) <-- I second this
19:04:14  <frosch123> do you have to say uno when you can only afford one more line before getting kicked for spamming?
19:04:29  <KenjiE20> hehe
19:05:52  <KenjiE20> also, no small wonder brot eats 60m with that many plugins
19:06:15  <Ammler> indeed
19:06:37  <frosch123> and it still lacks a chilly and a briegel plugin
19:06:50  <KenjiE20> ?
19:06:56  <Ammler> frosch123: you never know :-P
19:08:16  <frosch123> KenjiE20:
19:08:47  <KenjiE20> oh, personality module?
19:12:24  <frosch123> i guess brot is best suited for a bot personaliy
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20:05:41  <Brot6> UNO! game halted before it could start
20:05:44  <Brot6> PeterT still had  Blue 2   Green 2   Green 3   Green 7   Red 3   Red 8   Yellow 3 
20:05:59  <KenjiE20> oh lawd that's annoying
20:06:31  <planetmaker> grrr
20:08:11  *** Brot6 has quit IRC
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20:10:55  <Paul2> lol
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20:54:07  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: how do u make thoose multiline commits?
20:56:24  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: I just type hg ci and then press enter. Then I edit the commit using my default editor
20:56:36  <planetmaker> which is vi by default here. And fine for me for that case
20:57:08  <planetmaker> The editor opens automatically here when I don't specify a commit message
20:58:37  <DJNekkid> oki... im used to hg commit -m "text"
20:58:48  <DJNekkid> thought perhaps there were some neat tricks
20:59:06  <DJNekkid> hg commit -m "stuff \r more stuff \r last stuff"
20:59:08  <DJNekkid> or similar
20:59:11  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: usually I use that, too
20:59:42  <planetmaker> But just for those Makefile commits it doesn't make much sense as I usually just copy over from another repo. But I want to document the changes for each repo I commit it in, too
21:00:11  <planetmaker> that=just using hg ci -m "blubber blah"
21:01:22  <planetmaker> vi is btw. a command line editor which just opens within the xterm I give the hg ci command... but it needs serious getting used to ;-)
21:01:37  <DJNekkid> i know vi
21:01:40  <DJNekkid> sorta crappy
21:01:41  <planetmaker> oki
21:01:55  <planetmaker> not really :-) But not something with a GUI ;-)
21:02:08  <planetmaker> I only use it for these quick things.
21:02:12  *** Rubidium has left #openttdcoop.devzone
21:02:13  <planetmaker> Unbeatable in that respect, though
21:02:24  *** Rubidium has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
21:02:28  <DJNekkid> nano is quite ok i think
21:02:33  <DJNekkid> a little bit more user friendly
21:02:35  <planetmaker> dunno it ;-)
21:02:40  <Rubidium> there... that solves the annoying flashing
21:02:50  <planetmaker> Rubidium: what an interesting leave message ;-)
21:03:15  * planetmaker wonders what flashed
21:03:27  <Rubidium> something of Brot6
21:03:43  <Rubidium> an annoying line with many colours and flashing text
21:03:55  <planetmaker> oh, those lines. They luckily don't flash here.
21:04:02  <planetmaker> and are already out of view ;-)
21:05:58  <Rubidium> not when your screen shows like 60 lines (and then I'm not even in the real tty console which shows even more lines; some 75-80)
21:06:37  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 499: Fix: Some wrong checks in the freight template \r test new line \n ... <>
21:11:10  <DJNekkid> hmm, should the tanker and the silo change gfx?
21:13:00  <planetmaker> how do you mean, DJNekkid ? As a function of what? On what pre-condition?
21:15:10  <DJNekkid> huh? what?
21:15:21  <DJNekkid> oh
21:15:23  <DJNekkid> hehe
21:15:49  <DJNekkid> i even forgot what i asked, a friend chatted me up and asked if i could play in her parents 50yr old party
21:16:04  <DJNekkid> but, does the tanker look more like a silo, and vica verca?
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21:17:39  <planetmaker> eh... dunno? It's something completely different?
21:18:00  <planetmaker> sounds to me like: what's more a tomato: an apple or an orange?
21:19:33  <DJNekkid> what im asking; is ((A=A)&(B=B)) or ((A=B)&(B=A))
21:19:41  <DJNekkid> or something like that :P
21:19:47  <DJNekkid> a= silo, b = tanker
21:20:34  <planetmaker> Is tea more coffee or coffee more tea?
21:20:44  <planetmaker> still it doesn't make sense to me :-)
21:21:10  <Ammler> DJNekkid: just add newlines to -m "text<enter>
21:21:18  <Ammler> continue"<enter>
21:21:43  <Ammler> if the line doesn't end with double quote, you have a newline :-)
21:23:29  <planetmaker> I guess I should go to bed... have a good night one. And especially Rubidium a successful one ;-)
21:24:11  <DJNekkid> if (the tanker wagon look like a tanker wagon?) end; else; does the tanker wagon look more like a silo wagon?
21:24:39  <planetmaker> that parses
21:24:55  <planetmaker> I think the tanker is a tanker and not a silo
21:25:09  <planetmaker> and also looks like it should
21:25:29  <DJNekkid> and the silo == silo?
21:26:53  <planetmaker> let me install head and look
21:28:20  <planetmaker> hm... I had them differently in memory ;-)
21:29:08  <planetmaker> I withdraw all my previous comments on that topic.
21:29:09  <DJNekkid> should be vica verca iyho?
21:29:35  <planetmaker> I'm not sure. Either could be tanker
21:30:08  <planetmaker> Though the current tanker could need IMHO a bit rounder ends... dunno
21:31:01  <planetmaker> None looks to me really like a silo wagon
21:32:36  <DJNekkid> see why im confused?
21:32:50  <DJNekkid> but i like the current "tanker" gfx better
21:33:07  <DJNekkid> altho its a bit low in the /\ vies compared to __
21:33:46  <DJNekkid> compare it to the NS1600 for example
21:33:58  <DJNekkid> 1px lower in ___ view
21:34:07  <DJNekkid> but much lower in /\'s
21:34:17  <planetmaker> <-- that looks like silo wagons and the shape of neither is not even close
21:34:40  <planetmaker> s/not even//
21:36:23  <DJNekkid> the "long silo" in "silotankers.png" in r250 is sorta close
21:38:39  <DJNekkid> but
21:38:53  <DJNekkid> it *looks* like the silo/tanker name is mixed up
21:39:16  <DJNekkid> because, in the code does the tank nfo point to the (current) silo gfx
21:39:58  <DJNekkid> and bingo!
21:41:51  <DJNekkid> otoh, i've never seen the use of that silo wagon, unless we change it somehow
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21:51:54  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 500: Fix: ingame tanker text had ingame silo text <>
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22:38:59  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 501: Silowagon: <>
22:43:25  <DJNekkid> make: *** No rule to make target `Makefile.dep', needed by `depend'.  Stop.
22:43:31  <DJNekkid> how do i know what to look for?
23:11:01  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 502: Change/add: gfx for small tankwagon <>

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