Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 1st April 2010:
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00:05:33  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
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09:14:21  <DJ_Nekkid_dot_nl> well guys... im off to a few days in the netherlands now...
09:14:57  <Rubidium> DJ_Nekkid_dot_nl: oh, you'll like the weather
09:15:06  <Rubidium> typical Dutch autumn weather
09:16:05  <Ammler> fog, raining?
09:16:18  <Rubidium> yeah, kinda
09:16:26  <Ammler> same here :-)
09:16:29  <Rubidium> snowy rain, rainy snow... whatever it's called
09:16:57  <Ammler> and every day something else :-)
09:17:01  <DJ_Nekkid_dot_nl> "sludd" :)
09:17:22  <planetmaker> same here, too.
09:17:32  <DJ_Nekkid_dot_nl> and; same here too btw..
09:17:41  <DJ_Nekkid_dot_nl> -3 - +7c
09:17:54  <DJ_Nekkid_dot_nl> snow, "sludd" and rain, depending on the mood
09:18:34  <Ammler> hmm, suse factory needs another group detail: other, Real time or Turn based?
09:18:58  <DJ_Nekkid_dot_nl> real time?
09:19:01  <DJ_Nekkid_dot_nl> other
09:19:02  <DJ_Nekkid_dot_nl> ?
09:19:10  <DJ_Nekkid_dot_nl> atleast not turn based
09:19:19  <Ammler> Amusements/Games/Strategy/Other
09:19:23  <DJ_Nekkid_dot_nl> altho, that could be fun :P
09:19:27  <DJ_Nekkid_dot_nl> Games?
09:19:28  <Rubidium> simulation!
09:19:34  <Ammler> nah
09:19:58  <Ammler> I do not put OpenTTD to simulators :-P
09:20:20  <Ammler> nobody except Debian does.
09:20:52  <Rubidium> <- does
09:21:51  <Ammler> Fedora: --add-category=StrategyGame
09:22:23  <Ammler> some of the suse packager used Turn Based :-)
09:23:19  <Rubidium> Ammler: it is turn based
09:23:38  <Rubidium> you get 33 turns a second though, or less depending on the server's settings
09:25:21  <Ammler> Sim City isn't a simulator either
09:25:36  <Ammler> and that one has it in the name ;-)
09:26:15  <Ammler> well, the linux version doesn't
09:26:28  <Rubidium> Ammler: simulation is a subset of strategy (according to pediwikia)
09:29:15  <Rubidium> Ammler: <- that description really fits best to OpenTTD I'd say
09:29:16  <Webster> Title: Business simulation game - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
09:31:22  <Ammler> ah, I see
09:31:28  <Ammler> Simulation is no own group
09:31:56  <Ammler> is is just a subgroup of 3d (rpm)
09:33:04  <Ammler>
09:34:05  <planetmaker> I guess it always depends on how you want to categorize things and how you want to put emphasis.
09:34:33  <planetmaker> a 3d immersion army trainer is a simulation as flight simulator. But... ?
09:36:22  <Ammler> hmm, menu entries have other groups
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11:26:36  * Hirundo ponders actually playing 1.0.0
11:27:49  * Ammler ponders actually setup 1.0.0 server
11:30:58  <planetmaker> hm... #openttdcoop.stable still exists IIRC
11:31:38  <planetmaker> and you're master :-P
11:31:47  <planetmaker> and the only entry in the access list :-P
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17:06:54  <Ammler> planetmaker: shouldn't the rev file have the version as content instead in the name?
17:07:19  <Ammler> hmm, nvm.
17:41:41  <planetmaker> Ammler: it's easier to check for a file than its contents :-)
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18:53:55  <Ammler> he, now that is interesting
18:54:29  <Ammler> the official suse packager uses the binary zips of the open[g|s|m]fx :-)
18:54:45  <planetmaker> :-P
18:55:02  <Ammler> one spec for everything
18:55:33  <Ammler> I can remember asking the suse guys a year ago, they said to me, NO binaries :-o
18:56:12  <Ammler> well, I don't care, this way, we can be sure, the md5sum matches :-P
18:56:52  <Ammler> I am wondering, if they will package it that way to the 11.3 DVD
18:57:11  <Ammler> which you can buy
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19:21:55  <andythenorth> webster is slow today?
19:22:34  <KenjiE20> hm?
19:22:36  <andythenorth> hmm
19:22:38  <andythenorth> can't push
19:23:05  <andythenorth> which would be why my commits haven't been seen by webster :|
19:23:20  <andythenorth> Ammler: has hg gone away for a bit?
19:23:31  <andythenorth> pdq2s-macbook-3:fish_build andy$ hg push
19:23:32  <andythenorth> remote: exec request failed on channel 0
19:23:32  <andythenorth> abort: no suitable response from remote hg!
19:23:39  <KenjiE20> we seem to be maxing the VPS limits on the server lately
19:28:56  <Ammler> andythenorth: try again
19:29:12  <Ammler> I guess, openttd on the same server just isn't a good idea :-)
19:29:31  <KenjiE20> openttd >1 *
19:30:00  <Ammler> ?
19:30:01  <KenjiE20> we seem to get away (just) with one
19:30:47  <andythenorth> Ammler: win
19:31:38  <PeterT> andythenorth: openttd on mac still compiling for you?
19:32:17  <andythenorth> PeterT: yep.  I don't seem to have to ignore lso anymore either, which is nice.
19:32:29  <andythenorth> got some compile errors, I'm never sure if they matter :o
19:34:56  <Ammler> andythenorth: try to load a old save
19:35:08  <Ammler> ttd save
19:35:12  <andythenorth> Ammler: I just did, seems to work
19:35:28  <Ammler> compile errors or warnings?
19:35:37  <andythenorth> warnings
19:35:42  <andythenorth> map zoom mostly
19:35:54  <andythenorth> small map zoom to be precise
19:36:10  <Ammler> if it is unpatched, I guess, they would be happy to see those
19:38:00  <andythenorth> far as I know it's clean trunk
19:40:39  <andythenorth> Ammler: has redmine died too?
19:42:32  <Ammler> andythenorth: yes, seems so
19:42:38  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FISH - Revision 262: Change: split Utility Vessels into separate files <> || FISH - Revision 261: Change: split Traders into separate files <> || FISH - Revision 260: Change: split Vehicle Ferries into separate files <> || FISH - Revision 259: Change: split Coasters into separate files <> || FISH - Revision 258: Change: split River Boats into separate files <>
19:50:40  <andythenorth> planetmaker: hi time for a templating discussion?
19:52:13  <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes
19:52:18  <andythenorth> FISH
19:52:23  <planetmaker> &CHIPs
19:52:26  <andythenorth> :P
19:52:33  <planetmaker> :-)
19:52:34  <andythenorth> currently I use no templating
19:52:49  <andythenorth> I am planning to template some ships now
19:52:50  <planetmaker> ok
19:53:04  <andythenorth> the action 0 will not be templated, except for ID etc
19:53:09  <andythenorth> I can do that
19:53:23  <andythenorth> I plan to template the action 1, as they are very repetitive
19:53:32  <planetmaker> ID might be nice as it keeps a list. Is FISH actually for both TTDP and OTTD compatible?
19:53:32  <andythenorth> and the action 2/3
19:53:40  <andythenorth> no
19:53:44  <andythenorth> well maybe
19:53:46  <planetmaker> Ok, action1 makes most sense
19:54:07  <andythenorth> I think the action 1/2/3 all need to be in the same template
19:54:14  <planetmaker> How many views? 4 I assume per loading state?
19:54:23  <andythenorth> hmmm
19:54:32  <planetmaker> err... 8
19:54:36  <andythenorth> yup
19:54:40  <andythenorth> it's not like train wagons :)
19:54:42  <andythenorth> if only....
19:54:50  <planetmaker> depends upon the train wagons ;-)
19:55:24  <andythenorth> so to use the action 1 correctly, the action 2/3 also need to be present
19:55:34  <andythenorth> so I think templating is actually simple
19:55:41  <andythenorth> but I just wanted your opinion :)
19:56:21  <planetmaker> Even if action 1 is always followed by 2/3, you could make that a separate template
19:56:22  <Ammler> if you have done  the id.pnfo, post it on tt-forums and ask the ttpatchers to create the patch id.pnfo
19:56:29  <Ammler> so you don't have to care about that ;-)(
19:56:31  <planetmaker> Do you already use templated pcx?
19:57:01  <andythenorth> meaning they are all on a regular grid pattern?
19:57:01  <andythenorth> yes
19:57:15  <andythenorth> but the offsets change for each ship, I'll have to do x_offs_1 etc
19:57:16  <planetmaker> andythenorth: actually... I'd keep action1 and action 2/3 in separate files / templates
19:57:25  <andythenorth> I wondered that
19:57:28  <planetmaker> there might be cases where you use another template or so. For whatever reason.
19:57:53  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FISH - Revision 266: Remove: redundant file <> || FISH - Revision 264: Change: moved more files into own folders <> || FISH - Revision 265: Remove: redundant file <> || FISH - Revision 263: Change: move tow boats file to own folder <>
19:57:54  <planetmaker> *another action1 template (e.g. graphics sizes different, whatever)
19:58:04  <andythenorth> yes, that could happen
19:58:05  <planetmaker> you're more flexible that way to keep it separated
19:58:12  <andythenorth> ok, that was the advice I needed, thanks
19:58:20  <andythenorth> now I just need a naming scheme for them :o
19:58:41  <planetmaker> then each ship would get action0, action1-template, action23-template
19:58:53  <andythenorth> yep
19:59:02  <andythenorth> hmmm
19:59:09  <planetmaker> well... action1_shipsmall.tnfo
19:59:17  <planetmaker> action23_default.tnfo
19:59:27  <planetmaker> and ids in ids.pnfo
19:59:31  <andythenorth> action23_enhanced.tnfo etc
19:59:36  <andythenorth> yep ok
19:59:36  <planetmaker> possibly, yes
19:59:59  <planetmaker> though "enhanced" is very cloudy.
20:00:14  <planetmaker> Rather action23_riverraft.tnfo
20:00:16  <planetmaker> or so
20:00:28  <andythenorth> it's more to do with how much cargo graphic support is provided :)
20:00:32  <andythenorth> in most cases
20:00:33  <planetmaker> or action23_noPAX.tnfo ;-)
20:00:37  <planetmaker> ah, yes
20:01:05  <andythenorth> default, enhanced, comprehensive ?
20:01:07  <andythenorth> hmm
20:01:13  <andythenorth> anyway, I'll figure that out I guess
20:01:29  <planetmaker> hm... there's some way how to put that in one template. 2cctrainset uses that for some wagons with several refits / cargos
20:01:54  <planetmaker> like #define this_cargo1 blubber
20:02:00  <planetmaker> #define this_cargo2 blah
20:02:02  <planetmaker> ...
20:02:05  <planetmaker> and then in the template
20:02:15  <planetmaker> #ifdef this_cargo1 ...
20:02:17  <planetmaker> #endif
20:02:24  <planetmaker> #ifdef this_cargo2 ...
20:02:26  <planetmaker> #endif
20:02:34  <andythenorth> it's possible, but I don't think it's necessary
20:02:59  <andythenorth> the code will be harder to read....meanwhile most ships are near-identical in their code, so might as well keep it simple
20:03:06  <planetmaker> thus you could depending upon the highest this_cargX use one or another. But it gets very easily very complicated with the cpp possibilities
20:03:14  <planetmaker> yes, I agree
20:03:17  <andythenorth> I'll see how it goes
20:03:24  <planetmaker> I'm yearning for Yexo's python2nfo ;-)
20:03:41  <Yexo> still working on it :)
20:03:45  <PeterT> andythenorth: that's good
20:03:56  <Ammler> planetmaker: what about my bash-nfo?
20:04:07  <andythenorth> PeterT: what's good?
20:04:12  <planetmaker> Ammler: what do you mean?
20:04:21  <PeterT> [15:32:17] <andythenorth:#openttdcoop.devzone> PeterT: yep.  I don't seem to have to ignore lso anymore either, which is nice.
20:04:28  <andythenorth> ah yes
20:04:51  <PeterT> you said wine was buggy solution in your post
20:04:55  <PeterT> how so?
20:05:26  <andythenorth> sucky, not buggy
20:05:26  <Ammler> planetmaker: I would like to parse a bit bash before or after it goes through gcc
20:05:42  <Ammler> same could be done with pythong
20:05:55  <planetmaker>  as said: use a rule in by defining the rule(s) there.
20:05:59  <PeterT> why sucky?
20:06:03  <PeterT> slow or something?
20:06:10  <Ammler> planetmaker: but how does it detect the files?
20:06:24  <andythenorth> on OS X, running OpenTTD in WINE: (a) uses twice as much CPU (b) is very slightly skippy on mouse / scrolling sometimes (c) is a big pain to use because I have to work with a windows file system structure meh
20:06:26  <planetmaker> %.pnfo: %.bnfo
20:06:42  <planetmaker> if it wants a pnfo file, doesn't find it, it looks for a bnfo file with the same stem name
20:06:56  <planetmaker> and then follows the rule which you defined in order to convert bnfo -> pnfo
20:07:01  <PeterT> andythenorth: Indeed, that's what I dislike about Wine on Linux
20:07:04  * andythenorth wonders....can OS X compile a windows binary?
20:07:04  <PeterT> the windows file system
20:07:13  <PeterT> No
20:07:16  <PeterT> Well
20:07:17  <planetmaker> andythenorth: via cross-compiler: yes
20:07:20  <planetmaker> same as linux can.
20:07:37  <planetmaker> when I did it, I installed windoze in a VM.
20:07:38  <PeterT> there is the fedora-mingw cross project
20:07:45  <planetmaker> was easier and used MinGW
20:08:04  <andythenorth> another reason not to want to use WINE - can't compile easily :|
20:09:34  <Ammler> planetmaker: and the command in the target is: $(BASH) $< >$@
20:09:51  <PeterT> andythenorth: Can't just use official binaries?
20:10:05  <PeterT> I guess you must be thinking of patched ones - like your NewGRF Debug window patch
20:10:33  <andythenorth> sometimes devs give me unreleased patches to test
20:10:47  <andythenorth> and occasionally I fool with the code myself
20:10:53  <planetmaker> well... nearly. Watch the parentheses. Though I'd recommend, Ammler, to use $(shell blubber command blub $<) > $@
20:11:00  <planetmaker> and not resort to bashisms ;-)
20:11:03  <PeterT> [16:10:50] <andythenorth> and occasionally I fool with the code myself <-- that's what she said
20:11:22  <planetmaker> PeterT: official on macos is not possible
20:11:25  <Ammler> planetmaker: as I can't test non-bash, it is hard to support that :-(
20:11:42  <Ammler> for example, dish is really debian only
20:11:44  <planetmaker> still. :-) $(shell) is already defined
20:13:05  <Ammler> so you think, it is better I use $SHELL and will be blamed for bad shell code than using bash and be blamed if someone might not have bash?
20:13:20  * andythenorth hmms
20:13:22  <planetmaker> $(shell ... )
20:13:28  <planetmaker> you have to use the ( )
20:13:29  <andythenorth> does my FISH makefile know about tnfo?
20:13:41  <Ammler> what is command?
20:13:42  <planetmaker> andythenorth: likely not yet.
20:13:49  <andythenorth> I'll teach it
20:14:02  <planetmaker> Just add it where there's pnfo in Makefile.config
20:14:32  <planetmaker> FILE_SRC_EXTENSIONS = pnfo template <-- change template to tnfo
20:14:35  <andythenorth> what was the intention of 'template'?
20:14:41  <planetmaker> instead of tnfo
20:14:43  <Ammler> hmm, why not "$(shell) $< >@"
20:15:03  <Ammler> what have you in mind for blubber command blub?
20:15:14  <Ammler> ah, I see
20:15:23  <planetmaker> whatever you need
20:15:24  <Ammler> $(shell $<) >@
20:15:37  <planetmaker> then the output of all those commands is piped
20:16:04  <Ammler> bnfo is bash script, that is clear?
20:16:22  <andythenorth> oh poop
20:16:26  <Ammler> the output of that script makes a pnfo or nfo
20:16:29  <andythenorth> pdq2s-macbook-3:fish_build andy$ make install
20:16:29  <andythenorth> [Generating] Makefile.dep
20:16:30  <andythenorth> make: *** No rule to make target `Makefile.dep', needed by `depend'.  Stop.
20:16:52  <planetmaker> well... use whatever extension suits, Ammler... if the pnfo is generated from a .sh file then use %.pnfo:
20:17:03  <Ammler> yes
20:17:12  <planetmaker> hmpf @ andythenorth
20:17:16  <planetmaker> anything changed?
20:17:20  <Ammler> but I still have no idea about "blubber command blub"
20:17:26  <planetmaker> there's some bug lurking in that respect
20:17:36  <Ammler> andythenorth: most likely a missing file?
20:17:41  <Ammler> typo
20:17:41  <planetmaker> Ammler: your shell script
20:17:52  <planetmaker> $(shell $<) > $@
20:17:52  <andythenorth> planetmaker: type
20:17:56  <planetmaker> is probably all you need
20:17:58  <andythenorth> typo (the irony)
20:18:15  <Ammler> hmm, I try that
20:18:20  <planetmaker> yeah, it could tell the file, andythenorth :-(
20:18:31  <planetmaker> s/could/should/
20:18:42  <Ammler> s/could/did/ :-P
20:18:49  <planetmaker> pssst!
20:20:44  <Ammler> actually, if I don't need gcc, I could skip that with %.nfo: %.snfo
20:21:50  <Ammler> planetmaker: you should btw. make a release of newgrf_makefile
20:22:05  <Ammler> maybe also rename it, as it isn't for newgrfs only
20:22:32  <Ammler> or we should add it to nightlies
20:22:44  <planetmaker> hm... release... there's no point to generate nightlies of it.
20:22:50  <planetmaker> release... might make sense
20:23:04  <Ammler> well, a easier way to get a snapshot
20:23:09  <planetmaker> the nightlies will be a newgrf which claims to be a newgrf - and serves no other purpose ;-)
20:23:20  <Ammler> as cloning would make unnecessary history
20:23:53  <planetmaker> In the project list it's called Example NewGRF Makefile
20:24:10  <planetmaker> I dunno really a better name, though
20:24:58  <planetmaker> A release might make sense indeed
20:25:36  <andythenorth> hmm
20:25:44  <andythenorth> I didn't think about buy menu sprites
20:25:53  <planetmaker> :-) That's a 9th sprite ;-)
20:26:28  * andythenorth ponders restructuring the Action 1
20:28:52  <Ammler> [21:07] <Ammler> planetmaker: did you ever watch helicopters in opengfx?
20:29:10  <planetmaker> Hm... I guess not much.
20:29:16  <Ammler> the rotors are glitching
20:29:17  <planetmaker> I have a few in my title game submission
20:29:38  <Ammler> I should make a test game with those
20:29:49  <Ammler> or do we have a vehicle testsave already?
20:30:35  <planetmaker> you could use my title game :-)
20:30:52  <planetmaker> it doesn't have all vehicles, but pretty many.
20:30:58  <planetmaker> It's also my tropical test game ;-)
20:31:05  <planetmaker> It's a dual-use game :-P
20:31:41  <planetmaker> you want the latest version?
20:32:04  <Ammler> it's on documents, I guess?
20:32:20  <planetmaker> not the latest. But one. I guess that'll do
20:33:37  <Ammler> "opensfx/releases/";829;2010/04/01 22:31:15
20:34:00  <Ammler> "openmsx/releases/";484;2010/04/01 22:31:40
20:34:08  <planetmaker> download stats?
20:34:16  <Ammler> "opengfx/releases/";850;2010/04/01 22:32:10
20:34:23  <Ammler> yes
20:34:27  <planetmaker> nice
20:34:36  <planetmaker> bananas has about the same
20:34:41  <Ammler> only?
20:34:52  <planetmaker> that's 1600 in 36 hours
20:35:13  <planetmaker> 791 as of now
20:35:23  <Ammler> Rubidium: does installer downlaods have stats too?
20:36:45  <Rubidium> Ammler: I fear not
20:37:05  <Ammler> well, you could count the installer itself
20:37:07  <Rubidium> TB said he would unify the stat gathering, but AFAIK he hasn't done that yet
20:37:14  <Ammler> and assume 90% does download the addons
20:39:10  <Ammler> do you have msx in the installier too?
20:39:24  <Rubidium> I think you can't do that; 90% of the new installs, yes... but 90% of upgrades... definitely not
20:39:30  <Rubidium> Ammler: yeah
20:40:06  <Ammler> the same problem with all the *nix users
20:43:36  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - titlegame10.sav <>
20:46:10  <andythenorth> so a ship is conceptually a vehicle, yes / no?
20:46:45  <Rubidium> in terms of OpenTTD?
20:47:01  <Ammler>
20:47:09  <Rubidium>
20:47:10  <Webster> Title: Vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
20:50:17  <andythenorth> in terms of a sensible scheme for defines :)
20:51:21  <Rubidium> planetmaker: frontpage/templates/frontpage/
20:51:41  <planetmaker> ah :-)
20:51:59  <planetmaker> but why is the content under templates?
20:52:32  <andythenorth> planetmaker: we could template action 0 :o
20:52:36  <andythenorth> but somehow that seems overkill
20:52:51  <planetmaker> somehow it is, yes
20:52:58  <Rubidium> planetmaker: because it isn't in a database?
20:53:06  <planetmaker> Unless the stats are gathered in a list and the action0 written by a python script
20:53:15  <Rubidium> planetmaker: because I have no real clue about django, so don't ask me?
20:53:39  <andythenorth> Rubidium: looks perfectly sensible :)
20:53:40  <planetmaker> he @ Rubidium - still "template" seems wrong. "content" would be what I expected. Or alike
20:54:09  <Rubidium> planetmaker: well, I can't find it either... so grep's my friend
20:54:24  <planetmaker> I guess so.. .yes :-)
20:54:35  <planetmaker> I guess I'm already too tired to have thought of that
20:54:41  <andythenorth> Rubidium:
20:54:42  <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for OpenTTD (at
20:54:51  <andythenorth> it's a perfectly valid URL :)
20:56:10  * Rubidium has no clue what andythenorth tries to tell, though andythenorth has probably no clue what I'm talking about with planetmaker
20:56:18  <andythenorth> I can guess
20:56:42  <planetmaker> :-) Context is quite hard to guess without the missing piece of information ;-)
20:56:51  <andythenorth> ^^ I use a crazy python CMS too
20:57:10  <andythenorth> if I drew you the tree structure for the object db, you might wtf at how that works
21:04:42  <planetmaker> grfcodec, nforenum, catcodec, pngcodec - anything I miss?
21:05:08  <andythenorth> python2nfo :P
21:05:12  <andythenorth> oh.
21:05:19  <Ammler> you do not really want to make a "hardcoded" guide?
21:05:19  <andythenorth> not done yet :D
21:05:25  <Ammler> don't you trust the wiki?
21:05:44  <Ammler> that is stupid, imo
21:05:53  <planetmaker> Not really.
21:06:07  <Ammler> why not simply link to the wiki?
21:06:22  <Ammler> I don't mean DevZone wiki :-P
21:06:48  <planetmaker> I know
21:07:10  <Rubidium> oh, bananas downloads are spiking today :)
21:07:24  <planetmaker> Well. It makes sense to link it also there. A website should offer at least one link to its downloads ;-)
21:07:28  <Rubidium> already 55555
21:07:31  <planetmaker> :-O
21:07:33  <Rubidium> and 3 hours to go in the day
21:07:36  <Ammler> well, it is something else, if rubi or tb setup a guide there, they can edit it, but you need to commit patches for every change you need.
21:08:19  <planetmaker> Ammler: I don't want to write there lengthy treatise. Just a list of programmes: you find here a,b,c,d
21:08:26  <planetmaker> see wiki and forums for further info
21:08:44  <Rubidium> yeah; the compiler stuff is offloaded to the wiki too, right?
21:09:00  <Ammler> yeah, the main point is, they should need to read the wiki to get that stuff
21:09:05  <andythenorth> oops
21:09:18  <planetmaker> Ammler: why?
21:09:34  <Rubidium> 54705 bananas downloads the "day" of 1.0.0-beta1 (64313 is highest peak on 27/12), so maybe we're going to set a record there too
21:09:38  <Ammler> else you get new RTFM guys in irc
21:09:50  <Rubidium> @calc 55555/21*24
21:09:50  <Webster> Rubidium: 63491.4285714
21:11:25  <planetmaker> Ammler: but so far the OpenTTD page does not even mention that there are dev tools available.
21:11:44  <planetmaker> or that there's ways how to get more info to that end. And that is bad
21:11:51  <planetmaker> because that gives you questions, too :-)
21:11:59  <Ammler> ok, indeed
21:12:08  <Rubidium> which isn't that odd because the page has been written *before* we started to compile those binaries
21:12:13  <Ammler> I thought, you like to write about those tools
21:12:30  <planetmaker> I'll paste the diff in a few minutes. No books. A list
21:14:20  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FISH - Revision 272: Change: Large Trader uses templating <> || FISH - Revision 271: Change: Medium Trader uses templating <> || FISH - Revision 270: Change: extended templating <> || FISH - Revision 269: Change: Small Trader now uses action 2/3 template <> || FISH - Revision 268: Change: moved Small Trader to templated action 1 <> || FISH - Revision 267: Change: added .tnfo to make file <>
21:14:26  <Ammler> .. ttdviewer, spritealigner
21:14:45  <Ammler> well, if you like to mention windows tools?
21:14:49  <Ammler> grfmaker
21:15:12  <Rubidium> grf2html?
21:15:20  <Ammler> yes
21:15:36  <andythenorth> umm....come back redmine, I need you right now :o
21:15:42  <planetmaker> <-- Rubidium, Ammler
21:16:02  <planetmaker> Ammler: those tools are not available from the "official" website. So not
21:16:25  <Ammler> which?
21:16:33  <planetmaker> grfmaker, grf2html
21:16:44  <Ammler> but ttdviewer is
21:16:46  <planetmaker> ttdviewer, spritealigner
21:16:50  <planetmaker> is it?
21:17:03  <planetmaker> it's from an official dev, but not hosted there
21:17:07  <Ammler> from our devzone
21:17:11  <planetmaker> yes.
21:17:11  <Ammler> and tt-forums
21:17:25  <andythenorth> Ammler: is there anything you can do to kick redmine?
21:17:28  <planetmaker> well. Frosch can add it himself
21:17:33  <Rubidium> :(
21:18:11  <andythenorth> endlblocktrans :)
21:18:32  <planetmaker> ^
21:18:36  <Rubidium> yeah, locally fixed
21:18:40  <andythenorth> yay, redmine returns
21:19:11  <Ammler> that seriously sucks...
21:19:23  <Rubidium> the development page doesn't look very useful for NewGRFs and the like
21:19:35  <Ammler> maybe all because we use 64 instead 32 bit?
21:20:04  <planetmaker> Rubidium: well...
21:20:27  <planetmaker> I agree, it's not optimal in that case. But it has at least some 32bpp stuff.
21:20:32  <planetmaker> and some hints
21:21:20  <Ammler> planetmaker: grfcodec and nforenum aren't from either
21:21:21  <planetmaker> hm... should it be "base sets" rather than those in capital letters? I guess...
21:21:34  <planetmaker> Ammler: they're built by the CF
21:21:50  <planetmaker> and the download link is
21:22:08  <Ammler> yeah, but they should have commit rights :-)
21:22:54  <planetmaker> if you have the right you have the duty ;-)
21:23:00  <planetmaker> it's a two-edged sword ;-)
21:23:32  <Ammler> well, I didn't say they should take over, just be able to contribute
21:24:07  <Ammler> and not the need to go to the knees for every single simple patch
21:25:21  <planetmaker> don't tell that me. Don't tell that the people who you think should get access, tell that those who may grant it ;-)
21:26:24  <Rubidium> which would be mr. Patch himself
21:26:44  <planetmaker> yeah
21:27:19  <Ammler> Rubidium: since I am in #tycoon, this man joined maybe once?
21:27:34  <Ammler> man*
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21:27:51  <planetmaker> Ammler: only? I thought he's around at the frequency of Darkvater
21:28:09  <Ammler> maybe you confuse him with eis_os
21:28:17  <planetmaker> nope
21:28:32  <planetmaker> but I left #tycoon long ago again ;-)
21:28:36  <planetmaker> only senseless babble there
21:29:03  <Ammler> well, it is mainly a uk channel
21:29:06  <planetmaker> and the local channel reduction police cut that channel :-P
21:29:38  <planetmaker> well... yes, it is.
21:29:39  <andythenorth> #tycoon is offensively mindless
21:29:42  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FISH - Revision 273: Change: Island Trader uses templating <>
21:30:10  * planetmaker reads fish(y) commits ;-)
21:32:31  <Ammler> hehe German users thought openttd is april fool
21:32:34  * andythenorth does some mighty boring converting of offsets to defines :|
21:33:13  <planetmaker> andythenorth: the same as of the English IRC channel can be said of the German forums ;-)
21:33:44  <Rubidium> Ammler: where can I read that!?!
21:34:07  <Ammler> [23:21] <Tante|> Ammler, ist die 1.0.0 wirklich raus, oder ist das nur wieder ein blöder Aprilscherz?
21:34:29  <Ammler> he had a bit too many fools today :-)
21:34:43  <Rubidium> Ammler: say the joke this year is better than the joke of last year
21:36:00  <Ammler> [23:30] <Ammler> der Scherz ist wohl, dass die leute denken, es sei einer, es aber nicht ist
21:36:59  <Ammler> I guess, many are disappointed if they download it and see, oh no fool :-)
21:38:41  <Rubidium> still no post on the German forum though :(
21:39:17  <Ammler>
21:39:18  <Webster> Title: Toshiba TubeTop, The World's First Inflatable Laptop | Toshiba (at
21:43:21  <Ammler> but an annoucement for opengfx :-)
21:43:59  <planetmaker> Ammler: and it didn't attract a single reply there. So I cannot be bothered :-P
21:54:33  <Ammler> I annouced 1.0.0 there ;-)
21:54:50  <Ammler>
22:00:28  <planetmaker> :-)
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22:33:21  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FISH - Revision 275: Change: fixed buy menu templating for Traders <> || FISH - Revision 274: Change: templated offsets <>
22:45:11  * andythenorth contemplates some horrible things to do with offsets in FISH :(
22:49:09  <andythenorth> grrr
22:49:29  * andythenorth gets to align all the ships correctly....again :o
22:49:44  <andythenorth> but first....bedtime!
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