Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 2nd April 2010:
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08:59:48  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Bug #878 (New): bridges without backwall? <>
09:03:54  <Ammler> planetmaker: newgrfs? ^
09:20:59  <planetmaker> good question. maybe
09:23:26  <planetmaker> I don't see a bridge newgrf... maybe the narrow gauge...
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11:05:01  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Example NewGRF Project - Revision 84: Change: Don't use file extension 'template' anymore by default <>
11:25:03  <Yexo> planetmaker / Ammler: can you create a project at the devzone for my meta-nfo language?
11:25:12  <planetmaker> sure. happily
11:25:32  <planetmaker> as project manager you could even do so yourself ;-)
11:26:09  <planetmaker> Or don't you have the 'New project' button upper right available on the projects overview page?
11:26:20  <planetmaker> ?
11:26:25  <Yexo> ah, yes
11:26:30  <Yexo> ok, that's fine too
11:27:06  <planetmaker> one thing which cannot be changed is the identifier
11:27:13  <planetmaker> python2nfo ?
11:27:29  <Yexo> no, the base language is not python
11:28:23  <Yexo> NML for "nfo meta language"?
11:28:28  <Ammler> betternof :-P
11:28:34  <planetmaker> well... what is the project called? hm...
11:28:37  <Ammler> betternfo*
11:28:58  <planetmaker> well, nml is it then
11:29:21  <planetmaker> then I'll create such dir on the server for the repo
11:29:37  <Ammler> yexo should be able to clone to the server
11:29:59  <Yexo> I don't have a repo yet
11:30:02  <Yexo> so creating one is fine
11:30:21  <PeterT> this is an openttd patch?
11:30:24  <planetmaker> Well... Just the dir :-) You can then clone your local one to the server
11:30:30  <Yexo> ok :)
11:31:26  <planetmaker> dir created. You're about to create the project?
11:31:27  <Ammler> I would suggest making it a subproject of NewGRFs -> Tools
11:31:56  <Yexo> how to do that?
11:32:05  <Yexo> first create the project, then make it a subproject of something?
11:32:31  <planetmaker> you can assign it sub-project of something straight away.
11:32:32  <Yexo> which modules do you enable by default?
11:35:06  <planetmaker> Yexo: don't you have four activated by default? Maybe code reviews additionally
11:35:15  <planetmaker> and maybe documents for that project
11:35:46  <Yexo> yes, ok
11:35:55  <Yexo> I really can't find the option to make it a subproject of another project
11:36:18  <planetmaker> don't worry then
11:36:22  <Yexo> I don't have the rights for that
11:36:28  <Yexo> as I can find the option on
11:36:29  <planetmaker> I also wonder what it should be a sub project of :-)
11:36:47  <Yexo> newgrf -> tools seems fine
11:36:54  <planetmaker> hm... interesting. Yes, true
11:37:18  <planetmaker> I guess I don't know all (sub-)categories there. Seems Ammler tidied it up thoroughly :-)
11:37:52  <Ammler> if you can't chose subproject, create it and let us do that...
11:39:02  <Yexo> I've already created it
11:39:15  <planetmaker> :-)
11:40:11  <planetmaker> moved to newgrf->tools as sub-project
11:49:24  <Yexo> I get "remote: abort: There is no Mercurial repository here (.hg not found)!" as response on the first "hg push"
11:49:42  <planetmaker> Yexo: that's true. Don't push but clone
11:49:46  <Yexo> on the devzone I've already set mercurial under settings->repository
11:49:50  <planetmaker> yes
11:50:06  <planetmaker> but that doesn't initialize the repo on the disc. It just tells the webinterface to handle a hg repo
11:50:16  <Yexo> ok, clone worked :)
11:50:27  <planetmaker> subsequently you can now use push and pull
11:58:11  * planetmaker pulled
12:01:29  <Yexo> input is read from data.nml, output written to data.nfo
12:01:50  <Yexo> <- all of this works
12:02:38  <planetmaker> what about the commented stuff?
12:02:50  <Yexo> just disabled, if you uncomment it it works
12:03:03  <Yexo> but reading through the final nfo is hard if it gets too cluttered
12:04:31  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Webster
12:09:23  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Example NewGRF Project - Feature #880 (New): add expected md5sums to readme <> || Example NewGRF Project - Bug #879 (Confirmed): distclean: don't clean md5sums in tarball <>
12:28:31  <Hirundo> Yexo: sweet :)
12:29:35  <Yexo> I have to say I'm very tempted to make it openttd-only
12:29:57  <Yexo> getting action7/action9 working correctly also for ttdpatch will be a lot of work
12:30:39  <Hirundo> You mean, that openttd accepts action9 skipping e.g. action2/3, while ttdp doesn't?
12:30:46  <Yexo> not only action2/3
12:30:51  <Yexo> also action4
12:31:10  <Ammler> oh, do you know the difference between Action7 and 9 now?
12:31:11  <Yexo> and action10
12:31:32  <Yexo> Ammler: yes, somewhat
12:31:44  <Ammler> does it have one in openttd?
12:31:52  <Yexo> I've gathered from the wiki how it should work for ttdpatch (not tested that myself), and read the openttd code
12:31:57  <Yexo> yes, there is a diference in openttd too
12:31:58  <Hirundo> action10 :( that may be the worst
12:32:38  <Yexo> action E is also nice
12:32:41  <planetmaker> you should not down the differences in the newgrf wiki :-)
12:32:46  <planetmaker> *note
12:32:47  <Yexo> in openttd it just works, ie disable the newgrf if possible
12:33:11  <Yexo> in ttdpatch you have to just though all kind of hoops (checking with action7 to see if it will be activated but isn't active already) to disable a newgrf
12:33:29  <Hirundo> It may be nice to abstract that away from the user, if possible
12:33:51  <Yexo> yes, indeed
12:34:25  <Yexo> <planetmaker> you should not down the differences in the newgrf wiki :-) <- I would do that if I was sure how ttdpatch handled all actions
12:34:37  <Yexo> in the case of openttd I read the code, but I've never even seen the ttdpatch code
12:35:05  <Hirundo> regarding action7/9, my thought was to reserve one parameter (0x7F) to be a boolean value 'skipping'
12:35:21  <Yexo> I've already implemented that :)
12:35:42  <Hirundo> Is the code online?
12:35:46  <planetmaker> yes
12:35:46  <Yexo> yes
12:35:54  <planetmaker> project "nml" here
12:36:06  <planetmaker> otherwise same checkout path as you is2 repo
12:36:18  <planetmaker> bah. *your
12:36:21  <Yexo> it has nearly no documentation currently
12:37:49  * Hirundo reads
12:43:49  <Hirundo> Are all operators supported, or only those that ActionD/2 provides?
12:44:51  <Yexo> currently only a few, but I plan to support all those that can be computed
12:46:30  <Yexo> I haven't implemented multiplication/ division yet as I still need a nice way to figure out how to decide if it should be signed or unsigned
12:47:42  <Hirundo> Doing that properly may be hard, given the lack of strong typing
12:49:33  <Hirundo> Does the grf spec support signed / unsigned comparisons/
12:49:36  <Hirundo> ?
12:50:00  <Yexo> yes
12:50:51  <Hirundo> Also for action7/9?
12:53:06  <Yexo> no, but that can be emulated via actionD
13:09:54  <Hirundo> Next week I'm having some tests, after that I'll try to help with either coding or documentation
13:10:20  <Yexo> that would be great :)
13:13:31  * andythenorth wonders about using FISH as a test case for nml
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16:05:04  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: NFO Meta Language - Revision 3: Feature: support for writing strings + translations to the nfo file <> || NFO Meta Language - Revision 2: Add: action0 properties can also be string names <> || NFO Meta Language - Revision 1: Add: support for reading language files very similar to OpenTTD l... <> || NFO Meta Language - Revision 0: Import: first version <>
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20:01:07  <andythenorth> planetmaker: got time to help me release FIRS 0.1.2?  I'd do it myself, but the baby kept us awake all night, my brain is mushed
20:02:09  <planetmaker> :-) I guess I can try. I'm not really attentive atm... zzzZZZzz :-)
20:03:07  <andythenorth> it's just a (potential) bug fix
20:03:24  <andythenorth> I've pushed
20:03:51  <planetmaker> o_O
20:04:03  <andythenorth> perhaps we should edit the read me though....remove the parameters notes
20:04:12  <planetmaker> hm... wait. we're only at 0.1.1, right?
20:04:19  <andythenorth> yep
20:09:20  <planetmaker> andythenorth: so you're editing the readme? Maybe updating the changelog?
20:09:49  <andythenorth> I should do that now...
20:09:53  <andythenorth> while I eat :)
20:09:58  <planetmaker> :-O
20:15:49  <andythenorth> does the readme need to hard-wrap?
20:16:10  <planetmaker> what you like
20:16:21  <planetmaker> we did it meanwhile for the base sets
20:17:16  <andythenorth> hmm
20:17:22  <andythenorth> no changelog for FIRS :o
20:18:52  <Ammler> andythenorth: I would wrap it around 80 chars, as there are some readers around which don't
20:19:16  <Ammler> "good" editors can help you doing that
20:19:48  <Ammler> for example, if I preview the readme with my unpacker, it wouldn't wrap
20:31:50  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 764: Change: updated readme.txt <>
20:42:37  <andythenorth> so hg tag 0.1.2?
20:43:24  <andythenorth> hg up 0.1.2 -> pushed
20:44:29  <andythenorth> now I do something with MD5?
20:47:31  <planetmaker> andythenorth: after hg up 0.1.2 I'd first do:
20:47:34  <planetmaker> make bundle_zip
20:47:35  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 766: Added tag 0.1.2 for changeset eb0ba3807ac9 <> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 765: Change: hard wrap readme to 80 chars, generate new ... <>
20:47:38  <planetmaker> make bundle_src
20:47:48  <planetmaker> err... ok :-)
20:49:10  <planetmaker> andythenorth: what's the md5sum of your grf?
20:49:32  <planetmaker> (or how does the md5 file look like, if you called make md5
20:49:36  <planetmaker> ?)
20:49:56  <andythenorth> 006017570e286897c5e6b47f6af304de
20:50:28  <planetmaker> ok, then we got the same. Then I copy to bundles and you to bananas
20:50:44  <andythenorth> ok
20:51:21  <andythenorth> updated
20:51:27  <andythenorth> hope I didn't break anything :o
20:52:07  <PeterT> why is this +p?
20:52:26  <planetmaker> bundles updated
20:52:42  <Ammler> this?
20:52:42  <andythenorth> Ammler: FIRS has a lot of new compile warnings :P
20:52:46  <Ammler> :-P
20:52:51  <PeterT> why is the channel mode +p?
20:52:55  <andythenorth> so the nightly build will complain
20:53:04  <andythenorth> they are all caused by storing 0 to a register
20:53:18  <planetmaker> he
20:53:50  <andythenorth> I should fix them I guess....maybe tomorrow
20:53:59  <Ammler> no hurry :-)
20:54:44  <planetmaker> andythenorth: but you won't make a release now every four to five days? ;-)
20:55:06  <andythenorth> I might....if more bug fixes show up
20:55:17  <andythenorth> none of this bumps save games
20:55:25  <Ammler> mäh, blame me
20:55:26  <planetmaker> :-)
20:55:35  <Ammler> for still forgetting to finish the compiler
20:55:43  <PeterT> why is the channel mode +p?
20:55:54  <planetmaker> I guess you asked that already
20:55:55  <Ammler> PeterT: I have no idea
20:56:02  <PeterT> I did ask that
20:56:04  <PeterT> already
20:56:04  <Ammler> what does +p mean?
20:56:07  <PeterT> Private
20:56:14  <Ammler> and what does that mean?
20:56:15  <PeterT> (only ops can use /invite)
20:56:25  <PeterT> which is pointless, since it's not +i
20:56:29  <PeterT> which is invite only
20:56:32  <Ammler> yes
20:56:38  <Ammler> so it doesn't matter, does it?
20:56:40  <PeterT> So I suggest @mode -p
20:56:48  <planetmaker> @mode -p
20:56:48  *** Webster sets mode: -p 
20:56:53  <PeterT> yaya
20:56:58  <PeterT> ty planetmaker
20:57:42  <Ammler> PRIVATE is SET to OFF for channel #openttdcoop.devzone.
20:58:00  <PeterT> YES, it is SET to OFF now.
20:58:21  <planetmaker> oh no. It's a public channel?
20:58:36  <Ammler> :-)
20:58:53  <Ammler> planetmaker: what you get for /cs set #openttdcoop mlock
21:00:03  <planetmaker> +nt
21:00:31  <Ammler> what is +n?
21:00:39  <PeterT> No outside messages
21:00:44  <Rubidium>
21:00:50  <PeterT> *
21:00:57  <Rubidium> or, dunno
21:01:08  *** ChanServ sets mode: +nt 
21:02:14  <PeterT>
21:02:15  <Webster> Title: ChannelModes - OFTC (at
21:02:17  <PeterT> Ammler: ^
21:02:25  <Ammler> no need, I have you :-P
21:02:43  <PeterT> ok
21:02:49  <PeterT> I have you?
21:03:30  <Ammler> bad deal :-P
21:07:05  <Ammler> Majonaise, OpenTTD 1.0.0 release caused doubling traffic on DevZone
21:07:33  * PeterT why a simple version number can change so many things
21:12:06  <planetmaker> Ammler: maybe the doubled traffic is what causes the increased hick-ups?
21:14:20  <Rubidium> *very* likely
21:15:23  <Ammler> planetmaker: yep
21:15:58  <Ammler> wasn't the best idea to start a openttd server right when http traffic doubles ;-)
21:16:20  <planetmaker> ;-)
21:16:33  <Ammler> well, I assume, it will go down back next week
21:16:49  <planetmaker> maybe.
21:17:05  <Ammler> I wonder, who does still download from our server...
21:17:21  <Ammler> doesn't make sense to me :-)
21:18:12  <Rubidium> those people using e.g. Mac OS X
21:18:24  <Rubidium> or did download the windows zip
21:18:37  <Ammler> 810 downloads
21:19:00  <Rubidium> that's peanuts
21:19:32  <Ammler> he?
21:19:38  <Ammler> 4400 sfx downloads?
21:20:48  <Ammler> Rubidium: you don't have many more with the installer
21:20:58  <Ammler> 2500 if I got it right
21:21:25  <Ammler> something is badly broken with the stats tool, I assume
21:21:26  <Rubidium> Ammler: since 20:00 yesterday
21:21:53  <Ammler> I guess, we should remove it and analyze the logs
21:23:07  <Ammler> with logs I have 3500 gfx downloads
21:23:40  <Ammler> 6500 sfx downloads
21:23:44  <Ammler> hmm
21:24:11  <Ammler> cat access_log | grep | wc -l
21:25:16  <Ammler> ah, it is doubled
21:25:24  <Ammler> because of the redirect with download.php
21:26:23  <Ammler> 1855 msx
21:26:37  <Ammler> (since 28.3.)
21:28:04  <Ammler> [23:13] <blathijs> planetmaker: lintian complains about the .hgtags file in the source tarball <-- I told you that quite many times, didn't I? ;-)
21:28:42  <planetmaker> :-) probably
21:28:56  <planetmaker> some things need longer ;-)
21:29:02  <planetmaker> especially those not in the tracker :-P
21:29:22  <Ammler> hmm, I guess, it is also there
21:29:26  <planetmaker> but maybe I even closed it ;-)
21:31:29  <Ammler> and if you are at it, also remove .hgignore
21:31:49  <Ammler> and backup.push
21:32:01  <Ammler> but that file will leave the root anyway
21:32:21  <Ammler> hmm, you could already add .devzone to ignore too
21:34:59  <Ammler> well, make it simple and ignore .*
21:40:05  <planetmaker> yeah, possibly
21:42:27  <andythenorth> good night
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21:43:34  <planetmaker> the principle of a bouncer. Yeah!
21:44:00  <PeterT> That's what I said too.
21:44:14  <PeterT> I think he just uses it for nick protection, I guess.
21:44:22  <PeterT> Or hiding his IP
21:44:28  <Ammler> no
21:44:37  <Ammler> he still doesn't know his client
21:44:44  <Ammler> sometimes, he doesn't leave
21:45:15  <Ammler> but that isn't really bad
21:45:49  <Ammler> he uses the bouncer because he often d/c while active conversation
21:46:46  <planetmaker> true ;-)
21:49:19  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Example NewGRF Project - Bug #881 (Confirmed): bundle_src packs too much <> || FISH - Revision 285: push for backup - some ships will have broken offsets sorry <> || FISH - Revision 284: Change: fixed some offsets for Traders <> || FISH - Revision 283: Change: reduced height of some bounding boxes by 2px to prevent white showin... <> || FISH - Revision 282: Change: fixed buy menu positioning for Traders <> || FISH - Revision 281: Change: exported pcx files for Traders with revised positioning <> || FISH - Revision 280: Change: centred graphics for Island Trader in bounding boxes <>
21:52:33  <Ammler> also why does andy upload the release to tt-forums?
21:52:47  <Ammler> now he offers download for 0.1.1 while 0.1.2 is available
21:53:38  <Ammler> same bad thing as copying opengfx readme to the wiki ;-)
21:54:46  <planetmaker> hä?
21:55:11  <planetmaker> oh. tt-forums. Oh well. Ask him
21:55:39  <Ammler> don't need to ask, such things automatically happen with redundancy
21:55:43  <planetmaker> though I think there's a considerable difference between a readme and a grf :-)
21:55:49  <Ammler> :-P
21:56:14  <Ammler> well, you did a nice job with the wiki
21:57:35  <planetmaker> copy&paste :-P
21:57:44  <Ammler> planetmaker: you can't link bananas tar.gz
21:57:56  <Ammler> shouldn't*
21:58:00  <planetmaker> do I?
21:58:17  <Ammler>     *  Look for "OpenGFX" on one of the OpenTTD binaries servers, it is found in the "bananas" section: (or possibly with a newer version).
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21:59:43  <Ammler> someone would need to try until he found the matching version ;-)
22:00:08  <Ammler> as old packs aren't available
22:00:31  <Ammler> also the bananas link can change without notifying you
22:04:41  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Example NewGRF Project - Bug #881: bundle_src packs too much <>
22:19:52  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 32bpp-EZ - Revision 14991: Codechange: make it compile again after merge <> || 32bpp-EZ - Revision 14990: Codechange:update to svn 19546 <> || 32bpp-EZ - Revision 14974: Codechange: merging the heads <> || 32bpp-EZ - Revision 14973: codechange:use trunk source to make merge easier <> || 32bpp-EZ - Revision 14989: (svn r19546) -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: <> || 32bpp-EZ - Revision 14988: (svn r19545) -Fix (r19544): typo <>
22:21:43  <Ammler> now he has a mix :-)
22:21:55  <Ammler> a real big mess
22:24:03  <Rubidium> you mean reverting stuff?
22:26:53  <Ammler> he started to merge now from openttd trunk
22:27:01  <Ammler> but still kept the old
22:27:05  <Ammler> don't get it
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22:29:21  <Ammler> I just looked at the nicks for the files, where he still is
22:29:29  <Ammler> I am a bit confused...
22:35:22  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 32bpp-EZ - Support #874: Create repository <>
22:50:27  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 32bpp-EZ - Support #874: Create repository <> || 32bpp-EZ - Support #874: Create repository <>
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