Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 15th May 2010:
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08:57:50  <Hirundo> Yexo: Sprite templates pushed
08:58:36  <Yexo> nice :)
08:58:50  <Yexo> do you have some example nml code for it?
08:59:02  <planetmaker> nice, Hirundo :-)
08:59:26  <planetmaker> you could make an example within ogfxplus :-P
08:59:42  <Hirundo>
09:00:13  <planetmaker> hm... I think we should start adding a documentation file
09:00:18  <planetmaker> with an example for such tings
09:00:20  <planetmaker> *things
09:00:28  <Hirundo> ^^ my thoughts exactly
09:00:30  <planetmaker> It doesn't need to be verbose or something
09:00:38  <planetmaker> but just examples would be sufficient for a start
09:00:47  <planetmaker> maybe you start with the sprite template ;-)
09:00:47  <Hirundo> Shall we use the redmine wiki for that, or something else?
09:01:00  <planetmaker> I thought of adding a file in docs to this project
09:01:11  <planetmaker> then the thing comes with documentation
09:01:22  <Hirundo> In what format? html?
09:01:26  <planetmaker> plain text
09:01:36  <planetmaker> easiest to keep track of. Hm...
09:01:55  <planetmaker> but this is just a quick thought, nothing thoroughly thought-through
09:02:53  <planetmaker> plain text has the advantage that a user could copy&paste without much 2nd thought into the own project
09:03:55  <Hirundo> which 'own project' do you have in mind here?
09:04:30  <planetmaker> If <someone> downloads NML, it should come with documentation
09:04:43  <planetmaker> own project would then be whatever a user does with NML ;-)
09:04:57  <planetmaker> my proposal is to add the examples to nml/docs
09:05:24  <Yexo> I think it's better to add them to docs/
09:05:27  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Redmine - Revision 3579: New translation (Latvian, #5446, thanks to Dzintars Bergs), translation ... <> || Redmine - Revision 3578: Use present? instead of any?. Handles nil case. <>
09:05:34  <planetmaker> yeah, docs
09:05:37  <Yexo> everything under nml/ is source
09:05:47  <planetmaker> I meant the docs dir of nml
09:05:53  <Yexo> ah, ok :)
09:05:55  <planetmaker> not nml/nml/docs ;-)
09:07:28  <Hirundo> I'd prefer HTML or something similar to allow basic structure (headings) and navigation (links)
09:07:56  <Yexo> html with <pre> blocks so it can be easily copy-pasted?
09:08:35  <Hirundo> Code in <pre> blocks, yes
09:09:47  * Hirundo is actually *playing* OTTD now, for once
09:11:59  <planetmaker> :-)
09:12:04  <planetmaker> ok, then html
09:21:17  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: NFO Meta Language - Revision 162: Feature: Sprite templates (at last) that allow re-using sprite ... <> || NFO Meta Language - Revision 163: Fix: Make reduce_expr return a new expression, instead of alter... <>
09:52:34  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenTTD-GUI - Document: todo and status <> || OpenTTD-GUI - todo.txt <> || OpenTTD-GUI - Revision 15188: - Fix: Change the display of the heightmap sprites depending upon w... <>
10:07:08  <Ammler> hmm, I thought patch queue is better for devs to review?
10:08:29  <Yexo> Hirundo: reduce_expr is still not correct
10:08:32  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenTTD-GUI - Document: Map gen mockup <> || OpenTTD-GUI - map_generator_gui_2.png <>
10:09:22  <Yexo> a few members of the class Variable are not copied, and the BinOp reduce still modifies the existing espressions
10:09:32  <Hirundo> At least the unkown_id_fatal is broken, but anything else?
10:10:39  <Yexo> oh, I hadn't even noticed that yet but that was never correct, right?
10:12:08  <Hirundo> nope :) it fails with recursion
10:13:09  <Hirundo> I think reduce_expr should *always* return a copy of the original, even when nothing is changed
10:13:38  <Ammler> someone of you python gurus able to tell me what this means?
10:13:45  <Hirundo> else stuff like "expr1.add = ConstantNumeric(expr1.add - expr2.value)" breaks
10:14:16  <yorick> Ammler: apparently some eeror occurred importing your
10:14:20  <yorick> Ammler: you'll have to check the logs
10:14:41  <Ammler> - - [15/May/2010:03:15:39 +0200] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 500 61 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv: Gecko/20100317 SUSE/3.5.9-0.1.1 Firefox/3.5.9"
10:14:51  <Ammler> no error log entry
10:14:52  <yorick> the error logs :D
10:14:57  <Hirundo> Ammler: this helps? (google)
10:14:58  <Webster> Title: Django with Passenger - Stack Overflow (at
10:15:04  <yorick> then you'll have to enable error things somewhere
10:15:35  <Ammler> cgitb.enable() is decommented
10:15:38  <Ammler> un*
10:16:01  <Ammler> Hirundo: did you google?
10:16:03  <Ammler> :-)
10:16:20  <Hirundo> no shit :)
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10:17:29  <Ammler> I have no such fancy quotes
10:17:50  <Hirundo> Ammler: could you dump the contents of to the pastebin?
10:19:12  <Ammler> I try to get that to work:
10:19:13  <Webster> Title: HgRedmine - Overview - (9thsoft) Development Center (at
10:19:49  <Ammler> <-- my
10:19:50  <Webster> Title: HgRedmine: sample-hgwebdir.wsgi@8105e0811fde (at
10:20:37  <Ammler> I have no issue to get the official mercurial hgwebdir.wsgi to work as you have seen some days ago
10:21:02  <Ammler> so pyhton wsgi works in general
10:23:19  <Ammler> I do have a hgredmine.pyc in the web dir, so this proves to me, got called
10:23:45  <Ammler> I need more debug output
10:28:19  <Hirundo> Yexo: I'll do some fixing to reduce_expr
10:28:31  <Yexo> ok, great :)
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10:34:54  <Ammler> from hgredmine import HgRedmine <-- this does look for file
10:35:03  <Hirundo> Do you have some varact2 sample code?
10:35:37  <Hirundo> Ammler: yes, it imports HgRedmine from file
10:36:01  <Yexo> <- lots of varaction2 code
10:38:19  <Ammler> if I call the files on the server directly, I get nothing back, this is just hell confusing
10:48:45  <Hirundo> Yexo: I made two fixes, what else is broken according to you?
10:49:11  <Yexo> I don't know
10:50:36  <Yexo> if isinstance(expr1, Variable) and isinstance(expr2, ConstantNumeric): <- that line and onward sill modify the original expression
10:50:50  <Yexo> oh, nvm
10:51:23  <Hirundo> ^^a Variable is always cloned
10:52:03  <Yexo> the fact that unkown_id_fatal isn't used recursively isn't a bug perse
10:52:13  <Yexo> in the only case it's used that actually correct behavior
10:52:58  <Hirundo> Do you have sample code that uses it?
10:53:20  <Yexo> I'm stlil working on that code
10:55:34  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: NFO Meta Language - Revision 165: Fix: Variable.add is a ConstantNumeric, not a number. <> || NFO Meta Language - Revision 164: Fix: Not all parameters of a Variable were copied in reduce_expr <>
11:07:26  <Ammler> <-- DB issues?
11:11:15  <Ammler> YEAH \o/
11:13:44  <Ammler> <-- works with redmine credentials
11:14:18  <Ammler> now I need to port that to the, seems not that straight forward :-(
11:23:31  <Hirundo> Yexo: I propose to change the way variable scope is determined, to allow both SELF and PARENT in one expression
11:23:33  <Hirundo>
11:25:03  <Yexo> Hirundo: looks ok, would "self::" be default?
11:25:15  <Hirundo> yes
11:25:37  <Hirundo> I don't know exactly how much changing is needed to make it work, though
11:25:50  <Yexo> so if you want several vars from the parent scope you need to specify "parent::" multiple times?
11:26:17  <Hirundo> yes
11:26:17  <Yexo> each action2 can only do either self or parent scope, but it's possible to work around that via var 7E
11:27:09  <Hirundo> I'd suggest 2 action2s, the first loads all parent vars and dumps them into storage, then chains to the second one which does the real magic
11:27:38  <Yexo> ah, that is another option :)
11:28:46  <Hirundo> How is nvar==0 handled, btw?
11:29:30  <Yexo> I don't think nml will ever write an action2 with nvar==0
11:29:44  <Hirundo> That returns the computed value as a callback result, but what if the user specifies only the default?
11:31:24  <Yexo> that case is currently not properly handled
11:31:40  <Yexo> we also don't have syntax for the nvar==0 case
11:32:46  <Hirundo> I'll start with those things, then
11:36:14  <Yexo> just add "else: copy default range" to
11:45:38  <Hirundo> if len(switch_block.body.ranges) == 0:  switch_block.body.ranges.append(nml.ast.SwitchRange(ConstantNumeric(0), ConstantNumeric(0), switch_block.body.default))
11:46:10  <Yexo> indeed
11:46:15  <Yexo> I have to go now
11:47:42  <Hirundo> OK
11:57:43  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: NFO Meta Language - Revision 166: Fix: Make sure that in switch blocks with only a default, nvar=... <>
12:29:47  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: NFO Meta Language - Revision 167: Fix: Place varaction2 ranges in the correct order. <>
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15:53:25  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: NFO Meta Language - Revision 168: Feature: Allow returning the computed value using 'return;' (wi... <>
16:18:23  <Brot6> fish: update from r362 to r364 done (1 errors) -
16:18:24  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a update: 2cctrainset (r528), 32bpp-extra (r32), airportsplus (r48), bros (r10), comic-houses (r69), firs (r820), heqs (r318), nmts (r15), nutracks (r59), opengfx (r456), openmsx (r53), opensfx (r88), snowlinemod (r10), worldairlineset (ERROR r637)
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17:40:39  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 821: Feature: improved graphics for Textil Mill <>
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18:44:40  <andythenorth> planetmaker: looks like I upset george :o
18:44:51  <planetmaker> yeah
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18:44:59  <planetmaker> did you answer him at all?
18:45:24  <andythenorth> no
18:45:27  <andythenorth> I don't know what to say
18:45:36  <planetmaker> well, I'd have asked similarily then, I guess :-)
18:45:49  <planetmaker> thanks but no thanks ;-)
18:46:02  <planetmaker> be honest
18:46:10  <planetmaker> honesty is usually a good guide
18:46:32  <planetmaker> but you're British. You're rather polite than honest :-P
18:46:42  <planetmaker> I'm German, I'm vice versa ;-)
18:46:49  <andythenorth> and george :)
18:47:41  <planetmaker> well, polite and honest are things which are not mutually exclusive. It's just difficult for non-native speakers sometimes to read through the lines :-)
18:47:49  <planetmaker> as codes are different
18:48:54  <planetmaker> Well, George is George indeed. I haven't seen what he sent you, so hard to judge.
18:49:30  <planetmaker> But I understand you want to keep him out of the project as you have different views on how sprites look like
18:49:40  <planetmaker> I'd tell him just that
18:49:59  <planetmaker> That you think that yours and his view on how the sprites should look like don't seem to agree
18:51:40  <planetmaker> hm... if I only could find the article on talking past eachother...
18:52:14  <Ammler> he, does Geroge like merge FIRS and ECS?
18:52:43  <planetmaker> :-) Dunno
18:52:54  <planetmaker> I guess he just would like to get a hand in this set, too.
18:53:00  <planetmaker> Getting some of the glory ;-)
18:53:23  <planetmaker> understandably :-)
18:55:37  <planetmaker> hm, there was one nice website by a British guy who kinda disected the common misunderstandings and differences in the ways German and British communicate :-)
18:55:47  <planetmaker> was quite fun reading... but seems I didn't bookmark it :-(
18:58:44  <Ammler> andy, you need at least to answer, ignoring is worse.
18:58:48  <planetmaker> hard to prove now that I didn't call British dis-honest ;-)
18:59:07  <planetmaker> which was not my intention
19:02:24  <andythenorth> oh but we are :)
19:02:46  <andythenorth> it's the only way to survive on a small crowded island
19:03:21  <andythenorth> but not the British....just the English
19:03:33  <planetmaker> :-P
19:03:37  <andythenorth> the others have a bit more room and are a bit more straight talking
19:05:50  <Hirundo> Strangely, NL is very densely populated yet people tend to pay little attention to manners
19:06:31  <planetmaker> that's the germanic influence ;-)
19:07:04  <Hirundo> One of the things I learned in German classes is to be more polite than normal :)
19:07:52  <planetmaker> Hirundo: I guess that's a usual lecture in any foreign language class
19:08:05  <planetmaker> It makes up for the blunders one does and which one isn't aware of ;-)
19:09:11  <planetmaker> polite(Dutch) != polite(German) != polite(...) etc
19:09:16  <Hirundo> I think Van Gaal / DJ Feierbiest missed that bit
19:09:46  <planetmaker> Well... Van Gaal is winning. That counts there :-)
19:10:54  <andythenorth> maybe the dutch are less murderous
19:10:57  <andythenorth> than the english
19:11:50  <Hirundo> less murderous? don't know, I think they are a little less paranoid about security though
19:11:52  <Rubidium> don't know about andythenorth's age, but George is quite old so possibly raised on different principles
19:12:17  <Rubidium> Hirundo: more like a little less in the arse of the USA
19:12:38  <planetmaker> I'd put most of use between 18 and 35 here
19:12:55  <andythenorth> politeness is required in a murderous country
19:13:03  <andythenorth> or perhaps the correlation is all wrong
19:13:16  <andythenorth> perhaps we are so murderous because we're too polite
19:13:18  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 822: Feature: improved graphics for Cement Plant (inc. CC) <>
19:13:21  <Rubidium>
19:14:14  <Rubidium> (that's from one of George's crash reports)
19:14:31  <planetmaker> err.. funny graphics
19:15:11  <planetmaker> but not bad ground sprites
19:15:43  <planetmaker> the rough ones don't fit in. But they're nice on their own
19:15:45  <Ammler> rocks are ugly
19:15:47  <Hirundo> Rubidium: Firefox complains quite strongly about your secure site not being, well, secure (according to FF, that is)
19:16:08  <Ammler> Hirundo: that is a bug of FF
19:16:16  <Ammler> FF is just stupid about SSL
19:16:28  <Rubidium> Hirundo: well, get the cacert root certificate and trust it
19:17:01  <Rubidium> (or be willing to donate 1000 or so dollars a year for a wildcard certificate)
19:17:08  <Ammler> it should warn somethin like "You don't have matching root cert, please download it."
19:17:22  <Ammler> nothing to do, that the website isn't trustful
19:19:01  * Hirundo is off for tonight
19:19:11  <planetmaker> have a good one, Hirundo
19:19:26  <planetmaker> good work on NML today judging by the commit count ;-)
19:28:26  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 823: Feature: company colour for Glass Works <>
19:29:01  * planetmaker likes CC industries :-)
19:43:30  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 824: Feature: correct ground tiles for staithes at Cemen... <>
20:30:19  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 825: Feature: additional layouts for Arable Farm <>
22:16:59  <Ammler><project> with redmine credentials
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22:31:50  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 826: Feature: improved graphics for Dairy <>
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