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00:00:22 <Ammler> when do you merge without commit? 00:01:31 <planetmaker> always 00:01:46 <planetmaker> first merge. Then commit the merge 00:01:58 <planetmaker> and between those two steps one has to fix the merge conlicts 00:02:42 <Ammler> ok, and you run openttd to confirm the commit? 00:03:01 <planetmaker> I test the merge of course before I commit it 00:03:17 <planetmaker> it's nothing else than running a modified version 00:03:43 <Ammler> with 2 heads 00:04:02 <planetmaker> the number of heads is irrelevant. Only the current repo state counts 00:04:18 <planetmaker> and that is two parents 00:04:33 <planetmaker> which gives a funny combined hash 00:04:50 <planetmaker> and the latter is only thing which fails 00:05:27 <planetmaker> it could pick any of those two and call it modified version. Which is true 00:06:24 <Ammler> well, I assume it gives you both hashes 00:08:05 <Ammler> you have btw. still not pushed the newgrf-makefile release enabler :-P 00:08:09 <Ammler> and good night 00:18:19 <planetmaker> good night :-) 00:44:04 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: NFO Meta Language - Revision 187: Fix: 'else if' blocks were broken <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/187> || NFO Meta Language - Revision 186: Change: properly indent blocks when writing nml <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/186> 01:10:12 *** Yexo has quit IRC 01:11:39 *** OwenS has quit IRC 05:49:13 *** Seberoth has quit IRC 05:49:18 *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 06:52:24 *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:08:56 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Feature #957 (New): forrest <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/957> 07:11:26 <Alberth> Webster: s/forrest/forest/ please 07:12:05 <planetmaker> hm :-) 07:13:03 <planetmaker> it actually works to update it :-) 07:13:26 <planetmaker> would you rather like the current or the ECS forest? 07:15:12 * Alberth tests 07:20:15 <Alberth> I like the OpenGFX forest more, the ECS forest looks too cute. Maybe also, because here, forests here look like the OpenGRFX forests, not the ECS ones. 07:21:27 <Alberth> also, why does one need to 'apply changes' in the NewGRF gui? Very annoying. 07:21:29 <planetmaker> hm 07:21:55 <planetmaker> one does not need afaik 07:22:06 <planetmaker> at least not in main menu 07:22:26 <planetmaker> different for ingame, maybe... 07:22:50 <Alberth> I never tried that. in that case we can disable/remove the button :) 07:23:50 <planetmaker> from the main menu it's indeed not necessary 07:24:18 <Alberth> yes, I remember some magic happening in the destructor now. 07:24:19 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Feature #957 (New): forest <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/957> 07:24:37 <planetmaker> But it's necessary (and IMHO required) for grf changes ingame 07:25:00 <planetmaker> it's the button you need to click in order to get the warning ;-) 07:25:14 <Alberth> I am not sure why we even have it, is it such a needed feature? 07:25:40 <Alberth> it is causing a lot of broken save games that we get reports about 07:26:10 <planetmaker> Well, yes, it makes sense 07:26:13 * Alberth ponders connecting the feature to the grf debug setting 07:26:57 <planetmaker> Otherwise the scenarios get outdated even quicker. Or consider a (more sensibe IMHO) scenario designer who didn't add vehicle sets 07:27:06 <planetmaker> so that players can add it themselves later 07:28:15 <planetmaker> The real problem there is that it's save and completely harmless sometimes and as wrong as it can get in other cases 07:28:56 <Alberth> s/save/safe/ I guess :) 07:29:00 <planetmaker> I don't know a good method / criterion so far how to distinguish that programatically without understanding what the newgrf does 07:29:04 <planetmaker> yes :-P 07:29:08 <andythenorth> Alberth: I am in favour of removing pointless buttons :P 07:29:27 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's not (always) 07:29:32 <andythenorth> but that one seems useful? Changing newgrfs will easily crash a game....I'd rather not have that happen 07:29:38 <planetmaker> ^ 07:29:41 <andythenorth> just because I made a mistake 07:29:48 <planetmaker> but changing it from the main menu doesn't need it 07:29:49 <Alberth> let's remove all of them, then I am sure we got all pointless buttons :p 07:30:52 <andythenorth> planetmaker: it doesn't seem worth having the GUI behave differently in different contexts. Player still has to close the newgrf window? Or at least, until we finish the tabbed game setup GUI 07:30:55 <planetmaker> Alberth: part of the newgrf problem might be gone, if newgrfs get a version and one allows to update an existing newgrf 07:31:03 <Alberth> unfortunately, this stuff needs a much deeper understanding of grf and the simulation than I have 07:31:29 <planetmaker> then it might make perfect sense to forbid to remove newgrf (the most common cause for crashes) 07:31:37 <planetmaker> and other weired behaviour that is 07:32:00 <andythenorth> That would be a problem for developers.....but could be allowed only if newgrf debugging enabled? 07:32:11 <andythenorth> I need to remove grfs from in-game sometimes 07:32:23 <planetmaker> andythenorth: not as it's currently IMHO 07:32:41 <planetmaker> otherwise everyone enables newgrf debuging and we're there where we're now 07:32:44 <Alberth> hmm, yeah, only forbidding removal may be better 07:33:07 <planetmaker> allowing removal with debuging enabled does make sense 07:33:17 <planetmaker> (it should be possible somehow) 07:33:18 * Alberth nods 07:33:21 <andythenorth> how about enabling newgrf debugging requires recompiling ottd? :P 07:33:37 <planetmaker> nope 07:34:05 *** LA has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:34:11 <andythenorth> why do I remove a grf from a savegame? 07:34:15 <Alberth> then any problem with newgrf debugging is by definition a modfied game 07:34:26 <planetmaker> andythenorth: in order to update it 07:34:37 <planetmaker> or because it does not do what you hoped it did 07:34:46 <andythenorth> I use it to flip between releases and nightlies 07:34:49 <andythenorth> for testing 07:34:49 <LA> well good morning people 07:34:50 <LA> planetmaker, about #957 07:34:55 <planetmaker> or because you just clicked new game and only then configured your newgrf (a lot of people do that obviously!) 07:34:57 <LA> wouldn't that go into ogfx+? 07:35:06 <planetmaker> LA: it could be either 07:35:09 <Alberth> andythenorth: you know what you are doing, unlike many others 07:35:15 <planetmaker> climate-dependence is easy also in OpenGFX 07:35:36 <andythenorth> I'm not generally in favour of the 'feature' of removing. I just don't want to lose it for developers. 07:35:38 <andythenorth> hmmm 07:35:39 <LA> well, didn't think about that 07:35:44 <LA> but the forest 07:35:52 <LA> is only one tile 07:35:55 <Alberth> planetmaker: yeah, configuring the grfs before clicking 'new game' is weird 07:35:59 <LA> which has different states 07:36:07 <planetmaker> Alberth: I'm working on that ;-) 07:36:22 <andythenorth> also, if set A disables itself in the presence of set B, but I want to use set A....I need to be able to remove set B 07:36:24 <LA> so you couldn't have cabins etc. 07:36:35 <planetmaker> andythenorth: exactly 07:36:40 <Alberth> andythenorth: then you should start a new game imho 07:36:44 <planetmaker> LA: right. Then it's OpenGFX+ only 07:36:52 <andythenorth> and I don't find out what sets disable themselves until I click 'apply' 07:37:19 <Alberth> I am not even sure that happens 07:37:25 <planetmaker> Alberth: that's very annoying if you design scenarios :-) 07:37:52 <Alberth> planetmaker: it stops scenario makers from selecting grfs :) 07:38:03 <planetmaker> :-) 07:38:12 <andythenorth> also if you just got a really nice random map....or you realise that set A doesn't transport FIRS cargos, but won't play nicely with set B :| 07:38:28 <Alberth> hmm, perhaps we should only accept scenarios without grfs loaded :) 07:38:53 <andythenorth> if there's nothing constructed from newgrf A it should be removable, otherwise not.... 07:38:59 <planetmaker> Alberth: it might make sense. Somewhat. That'd be landscapes 07:39:19 <planetmaker> But industries and towns... they're newgrfs and can (currently) make a big part of scenario design 07:39:29 * andythenorth never plays scenarios. But don't people like placing industries and such? 07:39:59 <Alberth> I can imagine a scenario where you design the placement of industries 07:40:24 <Alberth> ie coal at the left, power plants at the right, in the middle a big blob of water 07:40:32 <planetmaker> just to phantasize: it'd be nice, if a scenario allows changes without detriment, if the feature hasn't been used 07:40:43 <planetmaker> of course, Alberth :-) 07:41:06 <Alberth> yeah, but that is then quite limited, industry grfs have no chance, as you said 07:41:43 <planetmaker> if you placed industries: no industry newgrf change 07:41:59 <Alberth> also, the game does a lot of stuff internally to store the available vehicles, industries, etc. Those then also need to be removable 07:41:59 <planetmaker> if you placed towns: no town newgrf change. Though that is annoying, too :-) 07:42:06 <andythenorth> fail gracefully? Just revert to empty tiles if grf is missing? 07:42:12 <planetmaker> yes. That's the problem 07:42:33 <planetmaker> in scenario removing stuff from non-existing newgrfs might make sense 07:42:41 <Alberth> andythenorth: there are hooks to the internal data structures 07:42:48 <Alberth> s/to/from/ 07:43:01 <andythenorth> sounds like a headache 07:43:02 <Alberth> that is where the problem really is 07:43:30 <andythenorth> I'm in principle in favour of preventing adding / removing newgrfs to a running game....except that it's useful. 07:44:05 <Alberth> I like it, but I don't want it :) 07:44:26 <andythenorth> the uses are mostly a bandage on other problems, like set incompatibility, and lack of wagons for industry set cargos 07:44:39 <andythenorth> if those were addressed.... 07:44:46 <planetmaker> Alberth: in that we all three agree 07:44:57 * andythenorth looks for the newgrf proposal by frosch123 07:45:25 <planetmaker> I think most of those problems might be gone, if the newgrf selection becomes part of the new game procedure 07:45:27 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/StaticGRFInfo.txt 07:45:47 <Alberth> andythenorth: ^ 07:45:52 <andythenorth> thanks 07:46:15 <planetmaker> I was shocked at how sloppily newgrf changes are treated when I had a look at the current "pass-on-the-savegame" in the German forum. Supposedly it was created by one of the 'oldies' there - and still A LOT of newgrf changes. 07:46:19 <planetmaker> especially initially 07:46:24 <Alberth> planetmaker: a more logical order in setting up the game would help a lot indeed 07:46:26 <planetmaker> and the game shows it 07:46:32 <andythenorth> if newgrf list had 'pre-flight' checks that would be useful 07:46:44 * andythenorth thinks of classes of warning 07:46:55 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I guess that's difficult 07:47:01 <andythenorth> "grf A defines cargo X, but no vehicles to transport it" 07:47:16 <planetmaker> but: I'd like it, too 07:47:30 <planetmaker> it'd require to test the newgrf setup in a sandbox 07:47:39 <planetmaker> and revert to previous state, if not accepted 07:47:41 <andythenorth> probably better use of time than trying to help debug games where newgrfs have been changed 07:47:57 <planetmaker> yeah 07:48:33 <Alberth> andythenorth: such changes are logged in the save game, and we are quite quickly done with such games :) 07:48:50 <Alberth> but it happens a lot 07:48:50 <andythenorth> "both grf B and grf C define cargo 'CATS' - this may cause problems" 07:49:18 <Alberth> it is also a newgrf problem in the sense that there is no policy to prevent such conflicts 07:49:42 <andythenorth> "grf E and grf D define vehicles in the same slot - do you want to enable the engine pool?" 07:50:20 <Alberth> I would assume you want both vehicles 07:50:42 <andythenorth> is engine pool on by default? 07:50:45 <andythenorth> and why turn it off? 07:50:53 <Alberth> but such stuff makes the code more coplicated 07:51:06 <Alberth> andythenorth: I don't know what the engine pool does 07:51:26 <Alberth> but if a user says he wants E and D, I think he expects to get them both 07:51:31 <planetmaker> Alberth: complicated code is your / our problem. Making it easy and understandable for the user: that should be the goal 07:51:48 * Alberth nods 07:51:49 <andythenorth> engine pool should be on by default if not already. 07:51:59 <andythenorth> in fact, the setting should be removed from the gui and moved to config txt only 07:52:04 <planetmaker> engine pool separates vehicle newgrfs from eachother 07:52:24 * planetmaker agrees with andythenorth 07:52:34 <andythenorth> the only reason I can think of using it is for certain TTDP newgrf authors who are sulking about it 07:52:40 <planetmaker> :-P 07:52:46 <andythenorth> (the GUI setting to turn it off that is) 07:53:19 <andythenorth> it's basically a setting that has annoyed a couple of people that think TT is a train game where they get to define the whole trainset 07:53:27 <andythenorth> and they've taken their toys home with them :P 07:56:56 <Alberth> like the GUI style guide, it would be good to create some structure in this problem first imho, and write it down 07:59:45 * andythenorth agress 07:59:53 <andythenorth> umm agrees 08:00:12 <planetmaker> hm... might also be a wiki page? 08:00:20 * planetmaker agrees, too 08:00:30 <andythenorth> I think it needs to fit with what frosch was thinking.....the understanding of the problems by frosch is a teensy bit better than mine :p 08:00:55 <planetmaker> yeah... few (anyone?) who understand it better, presumably 08:03:15 <Alberth> andythenorth: that's one step further I think, First understand the problem, then find a direction out of it 08:03:35 <Alberth> but yes, frosch probably has the best insight 08:04:52 <andythenorth> the newgrf stuff came from some conversation about this with frosch ;) 08:06:51 <Alberth> so he just forgot to write down the problem he is trying to solve :p 08:08:01 <planetmaker> :-P 08:08:13 <planetmaker> hm... also a wiki page about that maybe :-) 08:08:17 <planetmaker> so many... 08:09:17 <Alberth> I don't have enough structure in the problem to begin writing, but perhaps you do 08:10:05 <planetmaker> I'm not sure. But the try is not penalized, I guess 08:18:07 *** yorick has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:32:08 * LA has an urge to draw something 08:33:06 <planetmaker> LA: draw us a field with hay bales 08:33:18 <planetmaker> I promised that feature for 0.3 :-) 08:33:50 <andythenorth> foobar drew haybales for FIRS, but they have been....rejected :) 08:33:58 <andythenorth> for opengfx that is 08:34:20 <planetmaker> have they? I didn't see them 08:34:32 <planetmaker> well, it needs to fit the fields 08:36:44 <planetmaker> LA: another urgent issue: light signals 08:36:52 <planetmaker> the light is too small for all of them 08:37:00 <planetmaker> especially the non-pbs signals 08:40:08 <planetmaker> LA: otherwise another secret wish of mine is: a new steel plant. The current OpenGFX version looks iMHO too smooth and doesn't quite fit 08:40:09 <andythenorth> planetmaker: look at the FIRS mixed farm 08:40:30 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I have permission to use the steel mill by Oz for FIRS. 08:40:34 <andythenorth> which means it's GPL 08:40:40 <planetmaker> for fields? Hm, I actually might :-) 08:40:54 <planetmaker> But I'm not entirely sure FIRS style matches OpenGFX style 08:41:10 <planetmaker> FIRS is more small-scale than OpenGFX industries 08:41:14 <andythenorth> it's odd. some people insist it does. some insist it doesn't 08:41:26 <planetmaker> :-) 08:41:48 <andythenorth> simon foster was a bit variable on scale anyway 08:41:55 <planetmaker> yeah 08:42:04 <andythenorth> the default haybales are the size of the garages next to houses 08:42:20 <planetmaker> which is ok. it's then a pile of hay bales 08:42:26 <andythenorth> it's a haystack :) 08:42:30 <planetmaker> do you have a link to that steel mill? 08:43:20 <planetmaker> or rather: its sprites, could you provide me with them? 08:43:36 <LA> the hayballed fields should be from 602 - 639 in terrain04.pcx? 08:43:45 <andythenorth> planetmaker: steel mill is in FIRS repo - pull first 08:43:58 <andythenorth> sources/industry_graphics/steel_mill 08:44:06 <planetmaker> ah, didn't know that. Thx 08:44:15 <andythenorth> it's totally different to opengfx 08:44:23 <andythenorth> but very well drawn 08:44:28 <planetmaker> LA: I'd prefer them in their own file 08:44:38 <planetmaker> OpenGFX has too many too huge graphics files 08:44:49 <planetmaker> but the file sounds like it could be there, yes :-) 08:44:59 <LA> gah 08:45:12 <LA> I just meant that which sprites should I take as the base 08:45:17 <planetmaker> :-) 08:45:26 <LA> as there are a lot of farm sprites 08:45:35 <LA> farmland* 08:45:57 <LA> so which stage of them should have hayballs 08:46:45 <planetmaker> yes. But I have no idea so far either 08:46:56 * planetmaker looks 08:48:16 <planetmaker> and finds.... a large chunk of undocumented farm fields 08:48:59 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/entry/sprites/nfo/base/base-4090-farm-fields.pnfo <-- that's all I know, too 08:49:36 <andythenorth> you could do with an in-game sprite debug tool :P 08:49:48 <planetmaker> ! yes ! 08:49:59 <planetmaker> LA: exactly. Get a nightly and make use of that! 08:50:20 <planetmaker> in console: set newgrf_developer_tools 1 08:50:32 <planetmaker> and then you can use the sprite picker (from the info icon in the main toolbar) 08:50:53 <planetmaker> that will give you the number :-) 08:53:31 <planetmaker> LA: sprite 42787 08:53:33 <planetmaker> 4278 08:53:37 <planetmaker> in the base grf 08:54:03 <planetmaker> and 4279 08:54:26 <planetmaker> probably at least till 4290 08:54:57 <planetmaker> 4291 08:57:17 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 843: Add: steel mill sprites by Oz <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/843> 08:57:29 <planetmaker> LA: so those sprites in the file I linked in lines 180 to 20x 09:02:20 <LA> hmm, that doesn't make much sense :P 09:02:23 <LA> to me 09:02:39 <LA> I'd think they were 621 - 639 09:03:43 <LA> not 609 - 628 09:03:51 <LA> doesn't matter 09:03:54 <LA> thoug 09:03:56 <LA> h 09:05:06 <planetmaker> Well, I played with the sprite picker with the original set. and the numbers I showed had hay bales on them 09:05:20 <planetmaker> but indeed it doesn't matter much at this stage 09:27:56 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:29:27 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenTTD-GUI - Revision 15261: - Fix: Always allocate sufficient pixels real estate for the height... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openttd-gui/repository/revisions/15261> || OpenTTD-GUI - Revision 15260: - Codechange: Remove duplicate code <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openttd-gui/repository/revisions/15260> 09:45:26 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 844: Feature: improved graphics for Furniture Factory <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/844> 09:53:38 *** LA has quit IRC 10:31:25 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 845: Add: pnfo file for Filling Station <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/845> 10:47:30 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 847: Change: disabled production cb, enable Fuel Oil acc... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/847> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 846: Change: basic code for Filling Station <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/846> 10:56:26 * Alberth gives a lot of \n characters to Webster 10:57:51 *** OwenS has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:59:14 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you now really call it "filling station"?! 10:59:31 <planetmaker> which is, btw, a word I now read for the first time 11:03:29 <planetmaker> hm... the online dictionaries know that. But my offline book-dictionaries only know petrol and gas station 11:04:03 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filling_station 11:04:04 <Webster> Title: Filling station - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) 11:04:37 <planetmaker> I know what it is. I'm telling you it's the less common word 11:04:47 <planetmaker> And something *I* don't understand without looking up 11:05:00 <andythenorth> I fancied gas station myself :D 11:05:12 <planetmaker> Not that I'm a reference for good English. But I've been living in NZ for a year and don't know that, though I drove a car there. 11:05:13 <andythenorth> most of the names are vaguely US anyway 11:05:38 <andythenorth> Meat Packer instead of Abbatoir 11:05:42 <planetmaker> and it was always gas or petrol station 11:05:58 <planetmaker> :-( @ ignoring translation purposes 11:06:40 <planetmaker> that's quite against the rules of the streamlined UI you advocate otherwise 11:06:53 <planetmaker> supply an american translation then 11:07:46 <planetmaker> btw... meat packer - though easily understandable - is not know by my online dictionaries :-) 11:08:36 <planetmaker> which is abbatoir or slaughterhouse 11:08:49 <planetmaker> -b +t 11:09:00 <andythenorth> It's definitely an americanism 11:09:07 <Ammler> planetmaker: [02:07] <Ammler> you have btw. still not pushed the newgrf-makefile release enabler  11:09:12 <Ammler> andythenorth: you too :-P 11:09:26 <Ammler> oh, and hello you all :-) 11:09:28 <andythenorth> Ammler: is it a ticket for FIRS? 11:09:32 <planetmaker> what do I have to add then? 11:10:01 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I am quite happy to have UK and US English language files. Maybe not right now...but they should be added. 11:10:10 <Ammler> andythenorth: will you do, if I add a ticket? :-D 11:10:17 <andythenorth> Ammler: probably 11:10:24 <andythenorth> I prefer the americanisms in most cases....same as I prefer US trains + trucks :) 11:10:25 <planetmaker> yes. But get the default naming "right" from the start, andythenorth might be a good idea, eh? 11:10:30 <planetmaker> And not a "funny" mixture 11:10:36 <andythenorth> too late to change most of the code now 11:10:38 <planetmaker> Which we actually got graded down for at school 11:10:45 <planetmaker> in the code. But not the naming 11:10:56 <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/DevZone 11:10:57 <planetmaker> and even in the code it's a simple search and replace 11:11:37 <andythenorth> ah but what's "correct"? A lot of the industries are based on North America ;) 11:11:52 <planetmaker> correct is british English 11:12:08 <planetmaker> irrespective of where the industries are taken from 11:12:27 <andythenorth> Hmmm 11:12:38 <planetmaker> Otherwise the argument would be "use AE also in the Chinese translation" 11:12:46 <andythenorth> NARS 2 doesn't have "Passenger Coaches". It has "Passenger Cars" 11:12:59 <planetmaker> it has no translation 11:13:08 <Rubidium> for some reason language #0 is AE, language #1 is BE 11:13:23 <Rubidium> ask Chris why though 11:13:56 <planetmaker> also: others doing it "wrong" is no good reason to do it wrong yourself 11:14:00 <andythenorth> planetmaker: you already won the filling station argument - I am halfway through changing it :) 11:14:03 <planetmaker> 100 flies eat shit. So let's eat shit? 11:14:10 <andythenorth> but the rest...I don't know if I agree 11:14:11 <planetmaker> :-D 11:14:22 <Rubidium> and the "specs" say that if there is no translation, it falls back to American 11:14:50 <planetmaker> Rubidium: ehm? it falls back to english.txt, not to english_US.txt, no? 11:14:57 <planetmaker> or what's the point of those? 11:15:15 <andythenorth> Machine Shop -> Engineering Works :P 11:15:24 <andythenorth> Plastics Plant -> Plastics Factory 11:15:38 <andythenorth> Junk Yard -> Scrap Yard 11:15:46 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I'm talking about the NewGRF specs 11:15:49 <andythenorth> Cement Plant -> Cement Work 11:15:52 <andythenorth> s 11:16:05 <planetmaker> :-) 11:16:13 <andythenorth> I dunno. I don't like British English. I'm surrounded by it. 11:16:19 <planetmaker> Rubidium: sounds pretty inconsistant and IMHO wrong 11:16:33 <planetmaker> got a link? 11:16:54 <planetmaker> nvm 11:17:37 <Rubidium> Action4 11:18:01 <planetmaker> yeah, I'm there. I remembered that wrongly, I could have sworn it was vice versa :-) 11:18:40 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 848: Change: disabled production cb, enable PAX acceptan... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/848> 11:18:45 <Rubidium> anyhow, for fallbacks it isn't that important 11:28:14 <andythenorth> General Store -> Corner Shop 11:28:26 <andythenorth> Even though corner shops are rarely on corners in Britain 11:30:56 <planetmaker> he :-) 11:31:05 <planetmaker> grocery store? 11:31:13 <planetmaker> or doesn't that fit? 11:33:50 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 849: Change: renamed Filling Station to Gas Station in c... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/849> 11:56:04 * yorick needs to code stuff 11:56:22 <yorick> open for suggestions 11:56:30 <yorick> to 11:56:44 <Ammler> no, just you say "mäh" after :-P 11:57:03 <yorick> tell me anyways 11:58:01 <Ammler> a webconfigurator 11:58:32 <yorick> mäh 11:58:38 <planetmaker> :-P 11:58:42 <planetmaker> muh! 11:59:40 <Ammler> a wsgi to replace apache autoindex bundles.openttdcoop.org 12:00:27 <yorick> mah 12:01:08 <yorick> why that 12:01:22 <Ammler> a patch for openttd to save company passwords during restart/reload 12:01:42 <yorick> that's already somewhere 12:01:52 <Ammler> not "clean" 12:02:03 <Ammler> doesn't work here 12:03:07 <Ammler> (conflicted with logging patch) 12:03:54 <Alberth> generalize nml2nfo to accept and produce other formats (in the options)? 12:04:10 <yorick> Yexo is working on nml production 12:04:18 <Alberth> add an option to state where to pull the lng files from 12:04:45 <yorick> hmm I could try that first one 12:05:32 <Alberth> make an abstract base class for the actions 12:05:59 <yorick> I'd rather not touch the actions 12:06:01 <yorick> they're all sticky 12:06:17 <Alberth> so one can find what methods to code 12:06:38 <yorick> I'll work on autput format autodetection 12:06:55 <yorick> like nml2nfo -o thing.grf produces grf and nml2nfo -o thing.nml produces nml 12:07:44 <Alberth> then also add a --output-format=nml option, to override any smart decisions your code may do 12:08:00 <yorick> how about multiple outputs 12:08:12 <Alberth> we have those? 12:08:14 <yorick> yes 12:08:32 <yorick> you can say nml2nfo --grf thing.grf --nfo thing.nfo 12:08:52 <Alberth> and then you get the same output in two different format? 12:08:55 <Alberth> *formats 12:08:56 <yorick> yes 12:09:00 <yorick> and you can even add --nml 12:09:21 <Ammler> can't it not simply check the extension? 12:09:25 <yorick> yes 12:09:29 <yorick> but Alberth wants an override 12:09:49 <Alberth> --grf-output=filename perhaps ? 12:10:05 <Alberth> or --output-grf 12:10:27 <yorick> so what if one says nml2nfo -o thing.grf -o thing.nfo -o thing.nml oldthing.nml 12:10:39 <yorick> how would you specify the different outputs 12:11:17 <Alberth> nml2nfo --output-grf=thing.grf --output-nfo=thing.nfo --output-nml=thing.nml oldthing.nml 12:11:23 <Ammler> cat *.nml | nml2nfo | nfo2grf 12:11:37 <Ammler> cat *.nml | nml2nfo | nfo2grf > betgrfever.grf 12:11:39 <yorick> Alberth: we have that 12:11:48 <yorick> Alberth: that's ugly :-) 12:11:52 <yorick> Ammler: * 12:12:10 * Ammler wants nfo2grf :-P 12:12:23 <yorick> Ammler: waiting for yexo nfo detection code :) 12:12:27 <Alberth> it's called grfcodec :) 12:12:42 <Ammler> Alberth: that doesn't work with newest suse anymore 12:13:19 <yorick> who uses suse anyways 12:13:20 <Ammler> well, it does with -u 12:13:32 * yorick needs freebsd testers 12:13:36 <planetmaker> yorick: enough people 12:13:59 <Ammler> yorick: sometime other distros are on same level and then grfcodec won't work there either 12:14:02 <yorick> planetmaker: apparently not, because only after 2 years I get a bug report from openttd-python saying it doesn't work on freebsd 12:14:26 <Alberth> yorick: if we already have a way to specify the output format explicitly, simply add another generic --output option with output format detection 12:14:53 <planetmaker> yorick: where is freeBSD = SuSE? 12:14:59 <yorick> planetmaker: it isn't 12:15:09 <yorick> Alberth: ok then :-) 12:15:17 <Ammler> well, afaik DaleStan uses suse too 12:15:31 <Alberth> but an older one, apparently :) 12:15:48 <Ammler> yes, well, the suse I speak about isn't released 12:16:02 <planetmaker> he 12:16:09 <Ammler> will be end of june or so, or july 12:17:11 <Ammler> well, suse packages are "safe" from that, as they don't build self 12:17:17 <Ammler> they use the grf binaries 12:17:39 <Alberth> iek 12:21:08 <yorick> ew @ the way nml_output is implemented 12:25:38 <yorick> Alberth: done, submit patch? 12:26:24 <Alberth> yes please, I am doing wiki editing at the moment 12:33:55 <planetmaker> Ammler: how long are images preserved on img.openttdcoop.org? 12:35:16 <Ammler> forever 12:35:18 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: NFO Meta Language - Patch #958 (New): Add -o option <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/958> 12:35:20 <planetmaker> oh 12:35:37 <planetmaker> I mis-use it as image pastebin :-P 12:35:43 <Ammler> that's fine 12:35:56 <Ammler> such images could also be fun in 10 years :-P 12:36:02 <planetmaker> :-) 12:36:06 <yorick> ooh there's an openttdcoop image pastebin 12:36:08 * yorick ctrl-D 12:36:45 <planetmaker> I really appreciate to have that there, Ammler :-) It was a very useful thing that you installed that there :-) 12:36:54 <planetmaker> nice and easy way to show a quick screeny to others 12:36:56 <Ammler> 51M /home/img/public_html/ 12:37:07 <Ammler> so no real big waste :-) 12:37:12 <planetmaker> :-) 12:37:18 <planetmaker> not many use it. Luckily :-) 12:37:45 <Ammler> I made it for CB :-P 12:38:23 <Ammler> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/images/ for grabbing 12:40:01 <yorick> hmm it doesn't allow uploading and executing php scripts? 12:40:25 <Ammler> we have other places for that 12:40:28 * Alberth is happy about that 12:41:47 * Ammler should learn php-fpm, so I can trash mod_php 12:41:57 <Ammler> he* 12:43:44 <Ammler> yorick: wanna code c? 12:43:57 <Ammler> you could customize nginx autoindex 12:44:09 <yorick> nah 12:44:22 <Ammler> http://index.openttdcoop.org/ 13:36:17 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenTTD-GUI - Revision 15262: - Change: Display heightmap and heightmap size in the same line <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openttd-gui/repository/revisions/15262> 13:41:10 <yorick> Alberth: commit #958? 13:45:09 <Alberth> besides the minor lack of empty lines between 'def's, I don't feel I can decide on this by myself. 13:45:24 <Alberth> also, extension checking should be done in a case insensitive way 13:46:22 <Alberth> I only did 6-7 code changes, and I have no background in where the tool is supposed to go 13:46:46 <Alberth> your patch adds new functionality, but I cannot judge if it is the right direction, really 13:48:02 <Alberth> I don't like the --nfo and --nml options too much, to be honest, they seem to be too general tome. 13:48:43 <Alberth> why don't you recognize the .nml extension? 13:48:48 <Alberth> seems weird to exclude it 13:49:18 <Alberth> s/tome/to me/ 13:49:47 <yorick> Alberth: because it's not done in the OutputXXX fashion 13:51:34 <yorick> changing --grf would break ogfxplus 13:53:05 <Alberth> the --grf is in line with the --nml and --nfo options, so that is fine. The problem however is that "--grf" doesn't say what it does. A user may think it is for input. 13:53:24 <Alberth> ie I think all 3 options have a bad name 13:53:50 <yorick> I can probably keep --grf for backwards compatibility 13:54:19 <Alberth> but again, I have too little idea about how and why of this software to make decisions that change or extend functionality 13:54:58 <Alberth> ie I didn't know --grf was being used :) 13:55:43 <Ammler> you don't need to keep compatibility to ogfxplus, just notify, if it needs syntax change 13:56:36 <yorick> it needs a makefile change 13:56:44 <Ammler> there is no point to keep backwards compatability before first release, imo 13:56:56 <Alberth> and not even after that imho 13:57:08 <Alberth> otherwise you never get rid of old stuff 13:57:19 <yorick> I think a -v switch could be nice 13:57:37 <Alberth> especially when a change is just adding a few characters to a line 13:57:44 <Alberth> yes, -v is always nice 13:57:52 <yorick> I think optparse does that by default 13:57:57 <yorick> just need to give it a version argument 13:58:10 <Alberth> and it pulls the version from the setup.py? 13:58:25 <Alberth> or is that not a distutils file? 13:58:38 <yorick> it pulls the version from the nothing 13:58:44 <yorick> you need to give it the version yourself 13:59:29 <yorick> "Apart from that, version can contain anything you like. When you supply it, optparse automatically adds a "--version" option to your parser. If it encounters this option on the command line, it expands your version string (by replacing "%prog"), prints it to stdout, and exits." 13:59:37 <yorick> "parser = OptionParser(usage="%prog [-f] [-q]", version="%prog 1.0") 13:59:40 <yorick> " 14:00:49 <Alberth> I tend to stick a version string in __init__.py in my programs 14:02:04 <yorick> should probably use a more advanced version mechanism 14:02:23 <yorick> like the makefile does 14:06:26 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: NFO Meta Language - Patch #958: Add -o option <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/958#change-2545> 14:20:39 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:52:45 <Ammler> andythenorth: I move your projects to the new compiler, as you didn't yet... 15:01:08 * yorick prefers setuptools 15:06:49 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 850: DevZone: enable new compiler <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/850> 15:08:02 *** LA has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:08:06 <yorick> LA! 15:09:01 <LA> yorick! 15:10:34 <yorick> yorick! 15:10:49 <yorick> oh wait 15:11:20 * LA waits 15:12:29 <yorick> that's me! 15:13:28 <Brot6> fish: compile of 0.5 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/fish/releases/ERROR/0.5 15:13:31 <LA> pfft, I was very close to writing a poem here 15:13:38 <yorick> ooh 15:13:40 <LA> haha 15:16:26 * Rubidium didn't either 15:17:02 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a update: airportsplus (r48), bros (r10), comic-houses (r69), nmts (r15), nutracks (r60), opensfx (r88), snowlinemod (r10) 15:18:39 <yorick> LA: what would you give me for a spotify invite? 15:20:36 <LA> spotify invite? 15:20:55 <yorick> people over here want spotify invites (a lot of people) and I have one 15:21:11 <yorick> someone already offered a what.cd invite 15:21:22 * planetmaker has no clue what that might be 15:21:38 <LA> but.. i.. don't want... a...... spotify invite 15:22:18 <yorick> yes you do 15:22:27 <yorick> everyone over here does 15:22:49 <LA> oh.. my bad, I should leave then? :D 15:23:37 <Ammler> yorick: is the only one using it 15:23:44 <yorick> I mean the physical here 15:24:46 <LA> so yorick's been offering the invite to everybody and everybody have refused? 15:24:48 <LA> haha 15:25:05 <yorick> no 15:25:12 <yorick> I'm determining what they should give me :) 15:25:54 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:28:31 <Alberth> planetmaker: a new site with legal streaming music 15:29:00 <planetmaker> ? 15:29:06 <planetmaker> ah... spotify 15:32:47 * yorick will just post it in the "beg for spotify invites here" topic 15:39:46 *** LA has quit IRC 15:42:12 <Brot6> heqs: update from to 0.6 done (50 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/heqs/releases/0.6 15:42:17 <Ammler> "Pseudo-terminal will not be allocated because stdin is not a terminal." <-- what is that? 15:44:48 <andythenorth> hmm 15:44:57 <andythenorth> FISH didn't build 15:45:06 <andythenorth> probably a file missing? 15:45:11 <andythenorth> Ammler: ^ 15:45:42 <Ammler> the release, yes, might be 15:46:21 <Ammler> but you fixed that with nightlies already, afaik 15:47:21 <andythenorth> I'm confused. Should I fix the error or not? 15:50:41 <Ammler> andythenorth: wait for 18:18 15:50:50 <Ammler> then you see, if nightlies work 15:51:02 <Brot6> firs: update from to 0.1.2 done (1 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/0.1.2 15:51:51 <Ammler> in half an hour 15:53:49 <Brot6> fish: compile of 0.5 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/fish/releases/ERROR/0.5 15:54:00 <Ammler> ignore that ^ 15:54:43 *** Yexo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:55:06 <yorick> hello Yexo 15:55:18 <Yexo> hi yorick 15:58:28 <Ammler> somehow "the already tried but failed" detection fails for releases 15:59:40 <Ammler> I also need to save the revision, as the same tag can be used for different revs 16:07:26 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FISH - Revision 371: DevZone: enable new compiler <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/371> 16:16:59 <Yexo> yorick: any reason -o shouldn't work for .nml? 16:18:07 <Brot6> 32bpp-extra: compile of r36 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-extra/nightlies/ERROR/r36 16:18:08 <Yexo> Alberth: the ValueError (issue #956) is just a leftover from earlier, you can just remove it 16:18:11 <Brot6> firs: compile of r850 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/ERROR/r850 16:18:13 <Brot6> fish: compile of r371 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/fish/nightlies/ERROR/r371 16:18:16 <Brot6> heqs: compile of r319 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/heqs/nightlies/ERROR/r319 16:18:20 <Brot6> nml: update from r173 to r187 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/r187 16:18:24 <Brot6> test: compile of r16 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/test/nightlies/ERROR/r16 16:18:26 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r542), ogfxplus (r18), opengfx (r458), openmsx (r57), worldairlinersset (r643) 16:23:45 <Ammler> :-( 16:24:16 <Yexo> yorick: you should also update the flag outputfile_given 16:24:58 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r542), 32bpp-extra (ERROR r36), firs (ERROR r850), fish (ERROR r371), heqs (ERROR r319), nml (r187), ogfxplus (r18), opengfx (r458), openmsx (r57), test (ERROR r16), worldairlinersset (r643) 16:25:20 <yorick> Yexo: it doesn't use the OutputXXX thing 16:26:35 <Yexo> so? with your patch if you use "nml2nfo -o some_file.nfo test.nml" it'll also write test.grf' 16:27:28 <Ammler> is it possible, cron doesn't use bash? 16:27:39 <Yexo> yes, that is possible 16:27:45 <Ammler> or what the hell is going wrong :-( 16:28:41 <Ammler> it works just fine, if I call the script manually 16:29:13 <Brot6> 32bpp-extra: update from r34 to r36 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-extra/nightlies/r36 16:29:34 <Brot6> firs: compile of r850 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/ERROR/r850 16:30:04 <Ammler> planetmaker: can you set that Makefile.dep error top priority? 16:30:09 <Brot6> fish: update from to r371 done (1 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/fish/nightlies/r371 16:30:18 <planetmaker> uhm, how? 16:30:38 <Brot6> heqs: update from to r319 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/heqs/nightlies/r319 16:30:41 <planetmaker> you mean I should return a higher return value? 16:30:43 <Ammler> well, it worked with the old makefile 16:30:44 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r542), nml (r187), ogfxplus (r18), opengfx (r458), openmsx (r57), test (ERROR r16), worldairlinersset (r643) 16:30:47 <planetmaker> eh? 16:30:52 <planetmaker> hm 16:31:41 <Ammler> I think, it is more important to know, which file is missing than to have such a nice dependency check. 16:32:39 <planetmaker> yes, meanwhile I agree 16:33:20 <Ammler> andythenorth: fish is fine... 16:33:49 <planetmaker> lol... instead of opening the Makefiles in the editor I opened them in the browser. stuupid! ;-) 16:38:17 <Alberth> Yexo: ok 16:42:52 <planetmaker> Ammler: if you comment out Makefile.common:113: does it work then for you? 16:43:00 <planetmaker> # $(_V) echo "Makefile.dep: $(MAIN_FILENAME_SRC)" >> $(MAKEFILE_DEP) 17:08:21 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: NFO Meta Language - Revision 188: Codechange: Converting an integer number never fails (closes #9... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/188> || NFO Meta Language - Code Review #956 (Closed): useless ValueError exception handling in t_number(... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/956#change-2546> 17:09:09 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I'll push an update to your repos 17:09:15 <planetmaker> for the Makefiles 17:09:23 <andythenorth> ok thanks 17:10:40 <planetmaker> hopefully the Makefile will again tell what is missing ;-) 17:10:47 <planetmaker> you might try on firs and heqs already 17:17:40 *** Webster has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:23:23 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Climate dependant airports - Revision 49: Change [Makefile]: Update to Makefile r94 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/airportsplus/repository/revisions/49> || Nutracks - Revision 61: Change [Makefile]: Update to Makefile r94 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nutracks/repository/revisions/61> || 2cc train set - Revision 543: Change [Makefile]: Update to Makefile r94 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/543> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 851: Change [Makefile]: Update to Makefile r94 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/851> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 320: Change [Makefile]: Update to Makefile r94 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/320> || HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 319: DevZone: enable new compiler <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/revisions/319> 17:25:22 *** Yexo has quit IRC 17:25:28 <Ammler> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `sprites/nfo/i_GASSTATION.pnfo', needed by `sprites/nfo/firs.pnfo'. Stop. 17:25:44 <andythenorth> bah, I thought I'd committed that :o 17:25:57 <planetmaker> :-) 17:26:04 <planetmaker> a good test that it now works better again ;-) 17:26:18 <Ammler> case sensitive issue? 17:26:52 <Ammler> -rw-r--r-- 1 marcel users 3631 2010-05-23 18:44 i_gasstation.pnfo 17:27:22 <planetmaker> yup, looks like. And small cases is also much nicer :-) 17:27:48 <Ammler> sorry, that I missed your request to test :-P 17:27:55 <planetmaker> too late 17:27:58 <planetmaker> ;-) 17:28:20 <planetmaker> and nvm 17:28:44 <Ammler> the new script is in in /home/ottdc/compiler/ 17:28:57 <Ammler> scheduler.sh <project> for manually starting 17:30:05 <Ammler> hmm, but scheduler not really schedules, yet. 17:32:13 <Ammler> planetmaker: also if nml gets an update, should that force ogfxplus to update? 17:32:46 <planetmaker> that way not 17:33:07 <Ammler> wouldn't it be a good test? 17:33:09 <planetmaker> only ogfxplus needs newest nml 17:33:40 <planetmaker> well. actually it might be good, yes 17:33:55 <planetmaker> then one knows whether everything still works 17:34:08 <planetmaker> though, of course that is expected 17:34:16 <planetmaker> that's rather a test for NML. 17:34:43 <Ammler> yes, I mean that 17:34:45 <planetmaker> hm 17:36:27 <planetmaker> dunno really :-) 17:36:42 <planetmaker> it feels conceptually wrong 17:36:50 <planetmaker> but might be useful 17:39:27 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 852: Change: improved some elements of Machine Shop grap... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/852> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 853: Merge <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/853> || OpenGFX - Revision 459: Change [Makefile]: Update to Makefile r94 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/459> 17:41:22 <Ammler> planetmaker: that is for example how the distro build system works 17:41:40 <Ammler> if a dependency updates, it does rebuild 17:41:50 <Ammler> that is why I found out that grfcodec breaks 17:42:24 <planetmaker> ok. interesting, didn't know that :-) 17:42:56 <planetmaker> so, well, go for it :-) 17:43:16 <planetmaker> but then you should do it for grfcodec / catcodec / pngcodec, too :-) 17:44:11 <Ammler> nah... 17:45:26 <Ammler> we could touch rebuild in ./devzone/build/nightlies/ 17:45:27 <planetmaker> hm, we don't build it ourselves? 17:45:42 <Ammler> only nml 17:45:47 <Ammler> the others are used from suse 17:46:05 <Ammler> well, indirectly from us, as I build those there... 17:47:51 <Ammler> https://build.opensuse.org/project/packages?project=home%3Aopenttdcoop 17:54:34 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 854: Change: further improvements to Machine Shop graphics <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/854> 18:05:30 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Webster 18:09:57 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 855: Feature: improved graphics for Machine Shop <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/855> 18:21:43 *** Seberoth has quit IRC 18:24:04 *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:40:48 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenSFX - Revision 89: -Change [Makefile] Update to version r95 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opensfx/repository/revisions/89> 18:44:55 <planetmaker> andythenorth: the anti-aliasing is good in general. There's one piece where it IMHO doesn't improve the situation with the Machine Shop: 18:45:10 <planetmaker> the pip connection between the two white tanks on their top 18:45:27 <planetmaker> *pip 18:45:33 <planetmaker> grrr *pipe 18:48:20 <andythenorth> planetmaker: hmmm.....that bit is kind of muddy 18:48:44 <andythenorth> ah 18:48:51 <andythenorth> the pcx is wrong 18:49:51 <andythenorth> planetmaker: before I fix it....what is your issue with it? 18:50:20 <planetmaker> the pipe kind vanishes in the aa version while it is clear in the non-aa version 18:50:41 <planetmaker> in aa it merges with the tanks 18:52:17 <andythenorth> yup, a mistake in the pcx :) 18:52:59 <planetmaker> :-) 18:57:23 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenSFX - Revision 90: Cleanup: Remove duplicate variable definition <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opensfx/repository/revisions/90> 19:02:37 <Alberth> planetmaker: is there a defined meaning when { and } are used in nml, and when [ and ] are used? 19:03:36 <planetmaker> hm, not that I know out of my hat... let's see 19:06:55 <Alberth> ie for town names parts, you have a list of names (mostly strings) and a probablity. Would you expect a { } or a [ ] around those? 19:07:03 *** Doorslammer has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:07:28 <planetmaker> I think that generally { } is used for actions, features, properties 19:07:49 <planetmaker> ][ is nearly only used for number arrays like real sprites 19:07:54 <planetmaker> or do I miss something? 19:08:04 <Alberth> unlikely 19:08:29 <Alberth> ok, I'll use {} then first, we can always change it :) 19:08:31 <Alberth> thanks 19:09:19 <planetmaker> you're welcome 19:09:35 <planetmaker> I'd propose those, too 19:11:48 <Ammler> Alberth: if you have done town names, I would have 2 grfs to test it... :-) 19:12:13 <Alberth> bummer, I was going to use those as test :( 19:12:39 <Ammler> ? 19:12:41 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 856: Fix: mistake in Machine Shop pcx <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/856> 19:13:31 <Alberth> Ammler: or are you not talking about converting the swisstown names grf to nml? 19:14:04 <Alberth> If you want to do that, I cannot use it for testing 19:14:04 <Ammler> yes, I meant that or french towns as that needs a typo fix 19:14:20 <Ammler> well, feel free to use it :-) 19:14:44 <Alberth> thanks! 19:15:42 <Alberth> although I may need your help, I speak nfo very very badly :) but I will let you know then 19:16:24 <Ammler> but swisstowns is real names only 19:16:49 <Alberth> yeah, just one part if my decoding is correct 19:17:05 <Alberth> with some sub town-name definitions 19:17:08 <Ammler> glx has sources for other grfs 19:17:21 <Ammler> which do combine 19:25:10 *** Seberoth has quit IRC 19:33:46 <Hirundo> Mind if I extend param_list to allow a zero-length list? 19:35:58 <planetmaker> if it helps :-) 19:36:17 <planetmaker> why should we mind? :-) 19:38:56 <Hirundo> dunno :) 19:49:46 <yorick> Hirundo: why would you want a zero-length list? 19:50:05 <Hirundo> Because functions can have a zero-length argument list? 19:50:30 <yorick> which ones? 19:51:13 <yorick> hmm never mind I think it'd be useful 19:51:31 <Hirundo> In any case, an invalid parameter count is *not* a syntactic error 19:59:57 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: NFO Meta Language - Revision 189: Codechange: allow zero-length parameter lists, removing EmptyRe... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/189> 20:15:40 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: NFO Meta Language - Patch #958: Add -o option <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/958#change-2547> 20:16:31 <yorick> hmm...where to put the ABC for the actions 20:16:45 <yorick> nml/actions/__init__.py could be a candidate 20:22:37 <yorick> or maybe nml/generic.py 20:24:07 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:29:03 <Alberth> how to get a string literal as expression value, or is that not possible in nml? 20:30:49 *** yorick has quit IRC 20:34:54 <Hirundo> a quoted string? 20:37:04 <Alberth> I thought so, but it does not seem to work. Perhaps I am doing something stupid. 20:38:59 <Hirundo> literal strings are currently not expressions, but that could be changes 20:39:02 <Hirundo> *changed 20:40:56 <Alberth> makes sense for a mostly numeric language like newgrf. I'll add parser rules for the strings. 20:46:09 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX+ - Revision 19: Change [Makefile]: Update to Makefile r95 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfxplus/repository/revisions/19> || OpenSFX - Revision 92: Cleanup: remove rpm specs, those are slightly outdated and available direc... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opensfx/repository/revisions/92> || OpenSFX - Revision 91: DevZone: enable new compiler <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opensfx/repository/revisions/91> 20:51:36 *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:52:23 <Hirundo> switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, cb36_blank_wagon, max(extra_callback_info1, 4)) <- This should work, right? 20:53:00 <planetmaker> looks alright 21:00:26 <Alberth> http://paste.openttd.org/225835 does this look useful as town names description? 21:01:11 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Snowline mod - Revision 11: Change [Makefile]: Update to Makefile r95 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/snowlinemod/repository/revisions/11> 21:03:22 <Hirundo> Alberth: I would use "x : y ;" in all cases, , "x = y" is never really used for this purpose 21:03:37 <Hirundo> What does 'definition' do? 21:04:35 <Alberth> it is a number of the town names action, the town_names(0) at the end refers to the first one (with definition = 0) 21:05:31 <Alberth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ActionF ID here 21:05:34 <planetmaker> it doesn't follow the line that translations are in a lng file 21:05:49 <Ammler> town_names(0) : 99 <-- what is that 99? 21:05:59 <Alberth> 99 is probability 21:06:40 <Alberth> planetmaker: duh. Nobody told me that, and nobody wrote that somewhere :) 21:06:57 <Rubidium> >1 for probability? 21:07:16 <planetmaker> uhm... sorry :-) 21:07:18 <Alberth> but it is not really translation imho, it is the style name 21:07:35 <planetmaker> style name? 21:07:47 <planetmaker> # 21:07:48 <planetmaker> dutch = "stadsnamen"; 21:07:50 <planetmaker> # 21:07:51 <planetmaker> any = "townnames"; 21:07:55 <planetmaker> ^ pretty much looks like a translation 21:08:15 *** PeterT_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 21:08:19 * Hirundo agrees 21:08:33 *** PeterT_ has quit IRC 21:08:35 <planetmaker> name: string(STR_NAME_HEREFORD_TRAM); 21:08:38 <planetmaker> ^ that way 21:08:39 <Alberth> Rubidium: you must sum all integers and divide all numbers by that sum for getting the fraction 21:08:49 <Hirundo> Also, using names instead of numbers might be preferred 21:09:05 <Alberth> Hirundo: ? 21:09:14 <Alberth> is dutch a number? 21:09:31 <Hirundo> Sorry, I meant names for the town name blocks instead of definition numbers 21:09:46 <Hirundo> dutch = 0031 ;) 21:09:54 <planetmaker> :-P 21:10:12 <Rubidium> lies 21:10:38 <Rubidium> 31, 0x1f okay, but 0031.. nah 21:11:04 <Alberth> Hirundo: you don't make any sense, dutch = "stadsnamen" where is the number in that input? 21:11:43 <Hirundo> "... instead of definition numbers" 21:11:45 <Ammler> he might mean "definition = 0;" 21:11:51 <planetmaker> definition = 0; 21:12:13 <planetmaker> definition = 1; 21:12:15 <Alberth> that is the ID of the town_names action F, it has nothing to do with the languages 21:12:46 <planetmaker> it might more follow the scheme used with vehicles if it would follow vehicles: 21:13:18 <Alberth> planetmaker: name: string(STR_NAME_HEREFORD_TRAM); <-- what does this mean? 21:13:30 <planetmaker> item(FEAT_TRAINS, goods_wagon, 32) or item(FEAT_TRAINS, goods_wagon, fancy_unique_description) 21:13:53 <planetmaker> Alberth: it means that the name is given by the (translatable) string STR_NAME_HEREFORD_TRAM 21:14:10 <planetmaker> and there then can be for each translation one lng file 21:14:21 <planetmaker> exactly like OpenTTD translations 21:14:23 <Alberth> I don't need a translatable string, I need all translations, ordered by language 21:14:29 <planetmaker> ? 21:15:01 <Alberth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ActionF <-- Style Names section 21:16:10 <Alberth> item(FEAT_TRAINS, goods_wagon, 32) makes a relation between these 3 values? 21:17:01 <planetmaker> yes. a train vehicle, with the internal description goods_wagon gets assigned vehicle ID 32 21:17:28 <planetmaker> goods_wagon is what I re-use in action2 in order to refer to it 21:17:42 <planetmaker> the 32 as vehicle ID is optional 21:18:32 <planetmaker> maybe it could look like item(FEAT_TOWNNAMES, dutch_style) { 21:18:43 <planetmaker> my-big-village: 1, 21:18:45 <planetmaker> ... 21:18:47 <planetmaker> } 21:18:52 <planetmaker> ? 21:19:18 <planetmaker> but I'm not too deep into actionF tbh, so it might be nonsense 21:19:19 <Alberth> no, it is only the name of the grf in the option menu 21:19:29 <Alberth> (as I read it) 21:19:57 <planetmaker> grf name? option menu? 21:20:07 <planetmaker> action8 is not translatable 21:20:53 <Ammler> it is for the town name menu in options 21:21:15 <Ammler> which is translatable 21:21:18 <Alberth> 3rd blurb in the notes 21:21:47 <planetmaker> ah, that one 21:22:01 <planetmaker> then it clearly should become a translatable string 21:22:46 <planetmaker> ... if that's possible 21:23:10 <Alberth> I haven't looked at those strings yet 21:23:16 <planetmaker> yes 21:23:23 <Alberth> I didn't even know they existed :p 21:23:27 <planetmaker> it wants a language ID, so it's translatable 21:25:44 <planetmaker> it unfortunately is one of the NFO inconsistencies here. Instead of going via stringIDs and another action4 it is done here directly 21:28:03 <planetmaker> I fear you got a nice complicated bit of work here 21:28:24 <planetmaker> you need to check which translations are possible and then add them. 21:28:26 <Alberth> for the time being I simply keep this, I think. 21:28:30 <planetmaker> normal action4 are easy in comparison 21:28:34 <Rubidium> it's probably so there's no need to completely load the NewGRF to figure out the translations 21:29:19 *** Seberoth has quit IRC 21:29:29 <Alberth> no doubt someone thought about it when adding action 4 21:29:58 <Rubidium> action F is way later than action 4 21:30:08 <planetmaker> as the numbering implies 21:30:24 <Alberth> no doubt someone thought about it when adding action F :p 21:30:30 <planetmaker> :-P 21:30:58 <Rubidium> that I wouldn't say :) 21:32:02 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: NFO Meta Language - Revision 190: Fix: If an expression can't be reduced completely, return the b... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/190> || NFO Meta Language - Revision 191: Fix: Dictionary != function <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/191> 21:32:04 <Rubidium> anyhow, it has to do with the loading stages of a newgrf 21:32:27 <Alberth> seems logical indeed 21:34:01 <planetmaker> yep. 21:35:20 <Alberth> good night 21:36:43 <planetmaker> yep good night from here, too 21:38:28 *** Alberth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 21:53:48 *** ODM has quit IRC 21:56:00 <Brot6> opensfx: compile of 0.2.3 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opensfx/releases/ERROR/0.2.3 21:56:38 <Ammler> mäh 21:56:40 <Ammler> :-) 22:23:23 *** Doorslammer has quit IRC 23:04:47 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Feature #957: forest <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/957#change-2548> 23:40:35 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC