Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 28th May 2010:
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09:25:13  *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
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11:50:00  <DJ_Nekkid> that is the WIERDEST bug!
11:50:16  <DJ_Nekkid> the cimaera is only available when nutracks is loaded...
11:50:30  <planetmaker> did you check whether that's really the case?
11:50:43  <planetmaker> or whether it's only the case, if done with engine pool off?
11:50:53  <planetmaker> or in neither case? ;-)
11:52:57  <DJ_Nekkid> well, 2ccset chimaera i mean
11:53:10  <planetmaker> yes, I know
11:53:37  <DJ_Nekkid> but i see no reason for it to not be in :)
11:53:47  <planetmaker> did you check those cases?
11:53:52  <DJ_Nekkid> no
11:53:55  <planetmaker> then do :-)
11:54:02  <DJ_Nekkid> but what would enginepool matter?
11:54:15  <planetmaker> over-writing by an "enabling" engine?
11:54:57  <DJ_Nekkid> aaaah!
11:54:59  <DJ_Nekkid> i found it
11:55:13  <DJ_Nekkid> but i still dont understand why it didnt work in the first place :)
11:55:33  <DJ_Nekkid> it should have been a monorail engine
11:55:35  <DJ_Nekkid> in that case
11:57:25  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 544: Fix: Chimaera is now available not only with NuTracks (Action0 prop... (DJNekkid) @
11:58:18  <planetmaker> so... what is it?
11:59:49  <DJ_Nekkid> its one of thoose problems you dont really see, but you know you fixed it :P
12:00:08  <DJ_Nekkid> i mean:
12:00:19  <DJ_Nekkid> oh
12:00:19  <DJ_Nekkid> nvm
12:00:25  <planetmaker> ?
12:00:25  <DJ_Nekkid> 02 would be R120
12:00:33  <DJ_Nekkid> thus, its not excisting
12:00:49  <planetmaker> you lost me right at the start
12:01:02  <DJ_Nekkid> want it explained?
12:01:28  <DJ_Nekkid> in sprites/nfo/cargotable.pnfo there is a "railtable" as well
12:01:41  <planetmaker> uhm, yes?
12:01:44  <DJ_Nekkid> entry 02 is tracktype R120
12:01:45  <planetmaker> so two rail tables
12:01:48  <planetmaker> ?
12:01:56  <DJ_Nekkid> no, a cargotable, and a rail table
12:02:21  <DJ_Nekkid> but the railtable isnt conditionally skipped
12:02:31  <planetmaker> oh
12:02:34  <DJ_Nekkid> (if nutracks is loaded)
12:03:02  <DJ_Nekkid> so;
12:03:17  <DJ_Nekkid> the action0 property 5 on the chimaera (tracktype)
12:03:20  <DJ_Nekkid> were set to 02
12:03:23  <DJ_Nekkid> i.e. R120
12:03:48  <DJ_Nekkid> and when R120 isnt defined the game wont know what track to use
12:03:53  <planetmaker> so in any case: wrong rail type translation table
12:04:08  <DJ_Nekkid> no, wrong tracktype on the chimaera :)
12:04:21  <DJ_Nekkid> but, without a table would 02 be correct
12:04:22  <DJ_Nekkid> :=)
12:08:40  <DJ_Nekkid> btw, im working on an idea for subway tracks
12:08:55  <DJ_Nekkid> catenary that looks like houses and such
12:12:10  <planetmaker> sounds awesome :-)
12:12:45  <DJ_Nekkid> i _think_ it sould be possible
12:13:34  <planetmaker> sounds also feasible, yes
12:13:53  <DJ_Nekkid> and i did get zimlocks permission to use stuff from TTRS a couple of years ago if i wanted to make some subway stations
12:37:13  <DJ_Nekkid> hmm, i think i might have found a problem
12:37:18  <DJ_Nekkid> not tested yet tho
12:37:21  <DJ_Nekkid> but intersections?
12:55:42  <DJ_Nekkid> i got only one thing to say
12:55:45  <DJ_Nekkid> glitchy like a bitch!
12:57:21  <DJ_Nekkid> but that _might_ be the offsets tho
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14:11:10  <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid, concerning availability of track types:
14:11:44  <planetmaker> when the nutracks newgrf is active: wouldn't it make sense to use some of the existing engines as track type enabling vehicles?
14:12:14  <planetmaker> And programme nutracks such that it doesn't provide those vehicles, if either a certain parameter is set (preferred) and / or 2cctrains is found?
14:12:40  <planetmaker> the track type enable vehicles kinda look like a hack ;-)
14:23:50  <DJ_Nekkid> that would make sense!
14:24:36  <DJ_Nekkid> i guess i need to make a list :)
14:25:39  <planetmaker> I'll make you a ticket ;-)
14:25:54  <DJ_Nekkid> no need
14:25:57  <DJ_Nekkid> i'll get on it now
14:29:05  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #971 (New): Enable nutracks rail types natively (planetmaker) @
14:30:03  <planetmaker> oh. too late :-P
14:30:06  <DJ_Nekkid> np
14:30:10  <planetmaker> it's a two-fold issue anyway :-)
14:30:19  <planetmaker> or rather three-fold:
14:30:20  <Brot6> Nutracks - Feature #972 (New): disable "track type enabler vehicles" by parameter (planetmaker) @
14:30:36  <DJ_Nekkid> there is one track that needs them tho
14:30:39  <planetmaker> a) 2cctrainset: define a few engines which natively define the track types as their own
14:30:41  <DJ_Nekkid> the planning tracks
14:31:10  <planetmaker> hm, is there? why not make one engine with that type as their first?
14:31:14  <planetmaker> Like a draisine?
14:31:33  <planetmaker> No capacity, slow speed. Probably borrowing some gfx from HEQS or ISR
14:31:45  <DJ_Nekkid> sure!
14:31:46  <DJ_Nekkid> np :D
14:34:24  <planetmaker> b) disable track enabler engines via parameter (maybe bit parameter to disable them per track type?)
14:34:52  <planetmaker> c) disable track enabler engines by auto-detecting a proper trainset with nutracks support and setting the proper newgrf parameter itself
14:35:00  <planetmaker> For now that'd be only 2cctrainset probably
14:35:54  <planetmaker> hm, might make sense to add this draisine into nutracks, though
14:36:25  <DJ_Nekkid> yes, :)
14:37:33  <planetmaker> hm... maybe one could give it some speed after all. But no coupling and no capacity.
14:37:47  <planetmaker> could make for nice eye candy. Similar to the invisible engine by LA
14:38:02  <planetmaker> which allows for nicely populated switch yards with wagons only
14:38:13  <planetmaker> hm... idea for nutracks, too^ ?
14:38:25  <planetmaker> or rather 2cctrainset?
14:38:31  <planetmaker> as easter egg via parameter?
14:38:37  <DJ_Nekkid> sure :D
14:38:56  <planetmaker> lala ... having ideas is SOOO easy :-P
14:39:15  <DJ_Nekkid> but i have probably forgotten all of theese when im done with the native support :D
14:39:29  <planetmaker> shall I make you another ticket? ;-)
14:40:43  <DJ_Nekkid> sure :D
14:41:08  <planetmaker> there you go
14:41:21  <planetmaker> issue #973
14:42:29  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #973 (New): invisible engine (planetmaker) @
14:45:58  <DJ_Nekkid> hmm
14:46:01  <DJ_Nekkid> i just realized one thing
14:46:11  <DJ_Nekkid> with native support
14:46:16  <DJ_Nekkid> most trainsets override just that
14:46:21  <planetmaker> hu?
14:46:26  <DJ_Nekkid> i mean
14:46:34  <DJ_Nekkid> if i.e. DB-set is loded
14:47:03  <DJ_Nekkid> then all default engines are overridden
14:47:12  <planetmaker> yes?
14:47:58  <planetmaker> isn't the important thing to have one engine which uses the rail type label?
14:48:07  <DJ_Nekkid> yes :)
14:48:08  <planetmaker> or what enables a rail type?
14:48:15  <DJ_Nekkid> one engine
14:48:17  <planetmaker> so... what's the issue with default engines?
14:48:25  <DJ_Nekkid> nothing with the default engines
14:48:30  <DJ_Nekkid> but with i.e. DB-set
14:48:34  <DJ_Nekkid> UKRS
14:48:36  <DJ_Nekkid> NARS2
14:48:37  <DJ_Nekkid> etc
14:48:43  <planetmaker> they don't have native nutracks support
14:49:03  <planetmaker> I don't get your point :-)
14:49:09  <DJ_Nekkid> no they dont
14:49:51  <DJ_Nekkid> the point is, we need some kind of engine to be this or that tracktype
14:50:02  <DJ_Nekkid> so that support is enabled for the none-native sets
14:50:19  <planetmaker> of course
14:50:36  <planetmaker> that's why I said "disable those engines only, if native support is present"
14:51:04  <DJ_Nekkid> yea :)
14:51:35  <planetmaker> or: if a parameter tells nutracks to disable these support engines
14:51:47  <planetmaker> which is the future-proof way to do that without knowing grf IDs
14:52:23  <DJ_Nekkid> yup :)
14:52:26  <planetmaker> or what is your concern?
14:53:18  <DJ_Nekkid> im not sure anymore :)
15:20:59  <DJ_Nekkid> any suggestion for that dresin?
15:21:03  <DJ_Nekkid> gfx-wise
15:27:59  <DJ_Nekkid> i took that smallest tram engine thingy
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16:05:16  <DJ_Nekkid> hmm
16:05:17  <DJ_Nekkid> actually
16:06:18  <DJ_Nekkid> if the nutracks are _underneeth_ the DB-set (or whatever) the properties are actually overridden
16:06:39  <DJ_Nekkid> bah
16:06:41  <DJ_Nekkid> no they arent
16:06:45  <DJ_Nekkid> they are _added_
16:09:53  <planetmaker> which properties are over-ridden? And what's the engine pool setting? ;-)
16:13:53  <DJ_Nekkid> well, that is, with pool enabled
16:14:13  <DJ_Nekkid> and, prop 5
16:18:09  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: compile of r544 failed -
16:18:20  <Brot6> firs: compile of r862 failed -
16:18:28  <Brot6> fish: compile of r374 failed -
16:18:36  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 32bpp-extra (r36), airportsplus (r50), bros (r12), comic-houses (r70), heqs (r320), newgrf_makefile (ERROR r98), nml (r203), nmts (r16), nutracks (r62), ogfxplus (r23), opengfx (r459), openmsx (r57), opensfx (r94), snowlinemod (r12), test (ERROR r20), worldairlinersset (r643)
16:27:36  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (ERROR r544), 32bpp-extra (r36), airportsplus (r50), bros (r12), comic-houses (r70), firs (ERROR r862), fish (ERROR r374), heqs (r320), newgrf_makefile (ERROR r98), nml (r203), nmts (r16), nutracks (r62), ogfxplus (r23), opengfx (r459), openmsx (r57), opensfx (r94), snowlinemod (r12), test (ERROR r20), worldairlinersset (r643)
16:29:01  <planetmaker> lllllaaaazy ;-)
16:29:12  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: update from r543 to r544 done (103 errors) -
16:29:44  <Brot6> firs: update from r859 to r862 done (1 errors) -
16:30:03  <Brot6> fish: compile of r374 failed -
16:30:11  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 32bpp-extra (r36), airportsplus (r50), bros (r12), comic-houses (r70), heqs (r320), newgrf_makefile (ERROR r98), nml (r203), nmts (r16), nutracks (r62), ogfxplus (r23), opengfx (r459), openmsx (r57), opensfx (r94), snowlinemod (r12), test (ERROR r20), worldairlinersset (r643)
16:31:07  <Ammler> planetmaker: your makefile update seems to work :-) ^
16:31:18  <planetmaker> thanks :-)
16:31:23  <planetmaker> and your compile farm!
16:31:28  <Ammler> didn't work
16:31:33  <planetmaker> no?
16:32:07  <Ammler> well, it did, I removed the connector to suse build system, so it wasn't able to build the chroots
16:32:18  <planetmaker> meh
16:32:39  <Ammler> it needs that for resolving dependencies
16:33:05  <Ammler> (like zypper)
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17:00:19  <DJ_Nekkid> hey nice!
17:00:25  <DJ_Nekkid> this subway idea might actually work :)
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17:04:39  <Brot6> Redmine - Revision 3600: Translation updates, Locales sync (rake locales:update) (winterheart) @
17:04:40  <Brot6> Redmine - Revision 3602: Show subproject versions on the Roadmap. (edavis10) @
17:04:40  <Brot6> Redmine - Revision 3603: Include the Project name when sorting versions. (edavis10) @
17:04:40  <Brot6> Redmine - Revision 3601: Somehow ran out of unique identifiers. (edavis10) @
17:12:23  <DJ_Nekkid> awsome!
17:21:40  <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Revision 58: [Compiler] disabled WS for fetch changesets again (Ammler) @
17:22:51  <DJ_Nekkid> guys
17:23:01  <DJ_Nekkid> take a look at that subway post on the gfx forum :)
17:42:11  <planetmaker> link?
17:52:53  <DJ_Nekkid>
17:52:54  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - [OTTD] Subway stations disguised as parks [concept] (at
17:53:35  <frosch123> hmm, i guess the tunnelstuff is not yet possible
17:58:36  <frosch123> maybe with a new property similiar to the "default station graphics" but for "default tunnel graphics". then one could replace the maglev tunnelroof with a complete transparent sprite, so the catenery becomes the topmost visible sprite
18:00:13  <DJ_Nekkid> frosch123: look at my picture at the almost bottom
18:00:39  <frosch123> i saw that, but that does not work for tunnelentries
18:00:57  <DJ_Nekkid> i know, i saw that
18:01:11  <DJ_Nekkid> i mean
18:01:14  <DJ_Nekkid> i tested it :)
18:01:22  <frosch123> looks like currently all additional railtypes use the tunnelroof of normal rail
18:01:30  <DJ_Nekkid> yup :)
18:01:53  <planetmaker> which is actually a bit sad ;-)
18:01:53  <DJ_Nekkid> according to peters specs (some wiki-page) is that supposed to work, but i guess someone forgot it :)
18:02:29  <DJ_Nekkid>
18:02:54  <frosch123> no, there is only a railtype specific overlay and catenary, but no roof
18:03:11  <frosch123> the roof was decided to be landscape specific, not railtype specific
18:04:21  <DJ_Nekkid> roof?
18:05:48  <frosch123> The original ground sprite is drawn, then the overlay, (then the train, then the catenary), then the original tunnel head is drawn over the top
18:05:56  <frosch123> "(...)" additions by me
18:06:27  <planetmaker> hm, yes, I remember that
18:06:33  <planetmaker> that discussion
18:06:48  <planetmaker> there's no way to do a tunnel entrance which will fit every type of ground sprite
18:06:55  <planetmaker> and ground sprites cannot be made accessible
18:06:59  <frosch123> sprites like 2372
18:14:06  <DJ_Nekkid> overlay, as in the trackbit?
18:15:47  <frosch123> yes
18:16:03  <frosch123> there is a separate track overlay of tunnelsprites
18:18:58  <DJ_Nekkid> oki :)
18:19:24  <DJ_Nekkid> i.e. four simple sprites :)
18:48:35  <DJ_Nekkid> well, this have been a productive day :)
18:48:39  <DJ_Nekkid> fixed a couple of bugs
18:48:42  <DJ_Nekkid> gotten some ideas
18:48:45  <DJ_Nekkid> given some ideas
18:49:00  <DJ_Nekkid> but now im off to a preparty, and a gig from midnight-ish
18:49:05  <PeterT> hey DJ_Nekkid :-)
18:49:46  <DJ_Nekkid> howdy PeterT
18:50:11  <Brot6> rsync & cp -Rl - Revision 10: Fix: touch sync to have current backup time (Ammler) @
18:50:16  <DJ_Nekkid> test
18:50:23  <DJ_Nekkid> didnt work, nvm :)
18:50:35  <DJ_Nekkid> byehbyeh! :D
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18:51:04  <DJNekkid> wtf, alt-F4 works in VNC? :D
18:51:05  <DJNekkid> apparently
18:51:36  <Ammler> you can somehow disable such key combinations
18:56:33  <Ammler> planetmaker: repos don't need the same name as identifier anymore...
18:56:50  <Ammler> so feel free to continue with your silly "_" :-P
18:56:53  <PeterT> you use IRC from VNC?
18:56:55  <planetmaker> yippieh. Finally my craziness is cared for! :-)
18:57:08  <PeterT> is that how you stay online 24/7?
18:57:48  <Ammler> PeterT: some use pseudo proxy with text client on screen ;-)
18:58:04  <PeterT> Pseudo proxy?
18:58:25  <Ammler> however you call a remote client
18:58:29  <PeterT> oh
18:58:44  <frosch123> and some just do not sleep
18:58:50  <Ammler> :-D
18:58:57  <PeterT> ZNC never sleeps.
18:58:58  <PeterT> Ever.
18:59:02  <planetmaker> :-)
18:59:09  <planetmaker> Just run a pseudo-intelligent bot.
18:59:19  <planetmaker> For many people here that's sufficiently intelligent :-P
18:59:41  <planetmaker> well. maybe for some :-P
18:59:42  <Ammler> yes, I could replace me with brot quite easy :-P
19:01:48  <Alberth> PeterT: some people are just too scared to leave.
19:02:01  <DJNekkid> yes, i use irc from VNC :)
19:02:23  <PeterT> Of What, Alberth?
19:02:40  <Alberth> if they leave, they may miss something important
19:02:41  <Ammler> rl
19:03:20  <PeterT> since about two weeks ago, I decided that in addition to ZNC, I leave my computer on with IRC running
19:04:12  <PeterT> <Alberth> if they leave, they may miss something important <-- that's what logs are for.
19:04:54  <Alberth> PeterT: agreed, so it must be rl then
19:05:23  <frosch123> logs are stupid. you cannot make jokes about people when they are away
19:05:32  <Alberth> (or they don't trust logs they did not make themselves)
19:06:18  <Ammler> I use bouncer to keep you safe from d/c over the whole day :-)
19:06:25  <Ammler> like now
19:06:55  <PeterT> same, my internetz disconnect like...twice during the night
19:07:10  <PeterT> also, I like being around if people need me
19:07:57  <Alberth> if they really need you, they will try again when you are around :)
19:08:09  <PeterT> well, what if they leave when I'm around?
19:08:47  <frosch123> true, if he then gets hit by a bus, you will never figure it out
19:09:08  <frosch123> same reason why people dislike highlighting without stating reason
19:09:26  <Alberth> PeterT: since you stay on always, you force them to do that :p
19:09:49  <Alberth> frosch123: like the CIA :)
19:09:52  <PeterT> frosch123
19:10:00  <PeterT> I'm outta here!
19:10:07  <PeterT> Going to a movie :3
19:10:12  <PeterT> and since I have a bouncer
19:10:13  <Alberth> have fun
19:10:16  <PeterT> thanks :-)
19:10:27  <PeterT> you'll not notice my absence
19:11:13  <frosch123> we will, if we ban you
19:12:18  <frosch123> like, would you stay online if you get kicked every 15 minutes while you are asleep?
19:13:45  <planetmaker> rrright.
19:14:06  <planetmaker> I just thought PeterT was familiar with the concept of a bouncer for... at least weeks?!
19:14:30  <KenjiE20> planetmaker: think about it
19:14:53  * planetmaker refrains from thinking about it ;-)
19:15:30  <KenjiE20> :D
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