Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 17th June 2010:
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06:31:03  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Revision 345:d7940442e1e5: Change: Add constants for train acceleration models (planetmaker) @
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06:50:22  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Revision 346:427fa3989ace: Doc: Add documentation for railtypes (planetmaker) @
07:31:17  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 913:b6eaa354828a: Fix: Fruit and Vegetables cargo had wr... (andythenorth) @
08:51:53  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 40:42117fa3562f: Feature: Allow to really use base set independent tunnels (planetmaker) @
09:01:29  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 41:751bf8d7a247: Change: Make base set independent tunnels the default. ... (planetmaker) @
09:03:28  <planetmaker> ^ Ammler should be happy now. I am, too
09:04:24  <planetmaker> thanks for your quarrelling. It made me really look at the tunnel sprites option. And it works not too bad. Just no custom tunnel sprites
09:04:31  <planetmaker> But custom tracks inside tunnels. Which is fine
09:05:43  <Ammler> he :-)
09:09:34  <Ammler> well, it a conses, someone could now miss the nice irwe tunnels :-P
09:15:29  <planetmaker> they can still be enabled by parameter1
09:15:37  <planetmaker> but not recommended for MP
09:16:52  <planetmaker> It's getting to be a nice rail set :-)
09:22:02  <Ammler> can't start ttdpatch with it
09:23:13  <planetmaker> hm, no?
09:23:21  <planetmaker> why?
09:24:21  <Ammler> wine: Unhandled division by zero at address 0x60e37f (thread 001f), starting debugger...
09:24:23  <planetmaker> half of the source code is dedicated to TTDP. If that's useless...
09:24:32  <Ammler> :-D
09:26:03  <Ammler> it works, if I remove swedishrails.grf
09:26:32  <planetmaker> eh?
09:26:36  <planetmaker> hm
09:27:01  <Ammler> well, at least you tried :-P
09:27:09  <Ammler> maybe it works on windows
09:27:34  <Ammler> @wiki ttdp
09:27:37  <Webster> TTDPatch - #openttdcoop Wiki -
09:33:12  <planetmaker> hm... graphical mis-alignments with snow sprites...
09:39:35  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 42:6412aef97636: Fix: Some snowy sprites were slightly mis-aligned (planetmaker) @
09:43:53  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 43:646b32552809: Fix: Alignment of overlay tracks (planetmaker) @
09:52:15  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 44:67fb6a9251b6: Fix: Random typo (planetmaker) @
10:13:45  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Revision 347:47ee09204de0: Doc: Explain the usable graphics blocks for rail t... (planetmaker) @
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11:03:47  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 45:fbcb84e2d074: Fix: ignore the correct files (planetmaker) @
11:03:47  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 46:8e928080394c: Change: Add some preliminary depot sprites (planetmaker) @
11:18:16  <Ammler> planetmaker: you are coding quite fast :-P
11:18:28  <Ammler> release 0.2.0?
11:19:03  <planetmaker> probably soonish, yes
11:19:16  <planetmaker> Irwe is providing sprites fast, too :-)
11:19:20  <planetmaker> Very responsive
11:20:21  <Ammler> foundations are only ActionA and Action5, I guess?
11:25:00  <planetmaker> probably
11:26:15  <planetmaker> nml is fun. And the sprite alignment tool
11:26:25  <planetmaker> Both make things soooo much easier and more accessible
11:31:13  <Ammler> didn't touch any newgrf dev since the new debugger is in openttd
11:34:19  <planetmaker> you should. It's sheer joy :-)
11:37:57  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 47:2d0f8064592e: Change: Use special sprites for tracks inside tunnels (planetmaker) @
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12:29:03  <Yexo> hello
12:29:51  <Yexo> planetmaker: this template: "template ground_tile(x, y) { [x, y, 64, 31, -31, 0, 9] }" might help for swedishrails too, saves you from copying the width/height/xoffset/yoffset for tile sprites every time
12:40:55  <planetmaker> hi Yexo
12:41:02  <planetmaker> Thanks :-)
12:43:30  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 48:c3976b0de202: Fix: Use improved track sprites for normal tunnels (planetmaker) @
12:43:30  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 49:9460382f27d5: Fix: Improve alignment of South-East-facing depot (planetmaker) @
12:48:04  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 50:421159b03fbe: Doc: Add a template for default ground tiles including ... (planetmaker) @
12:52:38  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 51:612c419dfc32: Doc: Update changelog (planetmaker) @
12:54:16  <Brot6> swedishrails: compile of 0.2.0 failed -
12:54:57  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 52:abd5a2c558aa: Added tag 0.2.0 for changeset 612c419dfc32 (planetmaker) @
12:55:30  <planetmaker> ^ Ammler it probably used an old version of NML...
12:55:53  <Ammler> planetmaker: yesterday nightly
12:56:01  <planetmaker> too old, I I think
12:56:05  <Ammler> :-)
12:56:18  <Yexo> yes, indeed :)
12:56:23  <Yexo> it used r326
12:56:41  <Ammler> any idea :-)
12:57:06  <Yexo> about the error? just update nml and it'll be fixed
12:57:38  <Yexo> to be specific update to r336 or later
12:57:50  <planetmaker> ^ :-)
12:57:57  <Ammler> planetmaker: so wait for 18:18 and push again
12:58:10  <planetmaker> hm
12:58:33  <planetmaker> is any commit sufficient or do I have to retract the tag?
12:59:00  <Ammler> I fear, you need to change the HASH
12:59:09  <planetmaker> :-(
12:59:23  <Ammler> <-- that is what will be compared
12:59:39  <Ammler> if that doesn't change, it won't recompile
12:59:41  <planetmaker> Then I'll upload it manually. Or I just delete that dir there on the server...
12:59:48  <Ammler> yes
13:00:02  <Ammler> just delete ERROR on bundles
13:00:19  <Ammler> and run ~/compiler/ nml
13:01:02  <Ammler> then run ~/compiler/ -releases swedishrails
13:01:14  <planetmaker> which user do I have to be? ottdc or another?
13:01:25  <Ammler> ottdc for
13:01:25  <planetmaker> openttd I guess?
13:01:29  <planetmaker> oh, ok
13:01:38  <Ammler> same as the repos are
13:02:21  <Ammler> but for deleting the ERROR dir on bundles, you need user openttd
13:03:59  <Brot6> nml: update from r326 to r347 done -
13:04:15  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Feature #1018 (New): recursive templates (Hirundo) @
13:04:30  <planetmaker> thanks Ammler
13:04:39  <planetmaker> \o/ @ Hirundo :-)
13:04:49  <planetmaker> Been thinking about that just now :-)
13:05:06  <Hirundo> Mind control :)
13:05:21  <planetmaker> I guess it was in the air :-)
13:06:39  <Ammler> planetmaker: now you can trigger release of swedishrails again
13:06:56  <Brot6> swedishrails: update from 0.1.0 to 0.2.0 done (4 errors) -
13:07:04  <Ammler> oh, you already did :-P
13:08:02  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Feature #1018: recursive templates (yexo) @
13:09:38  <Ammler> hmm, we might need a md5sum file for the source package
13:11:13  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Feature #1018: recursive templates (Hirundo) @
13:12:18  <Hirundo> 'hg incoming' lists more than my cygwin shell can handle
13:14:08  <Ammler> hehe
13:14:19  <Ammler> Hirundo: Tortoise is quite neat
13:14:31  <Ammler> I use it also on linux
13:16:14  <Hirundo> --template "{desc}\n" works
13:23:53  * Hirundo resorts to games, having run out of bread
13:54:24  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Feature #1018: recursive templates (planetmaker) @
14:14:47  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 53:202072bb05a2: Feature: Separate depot sprites for normal and electrif... (planetmaker) @
14:18:30  <Ammler> planetmaker: you still don't wrap readme...
14:18:40  <planetmaker> true. I shall do now :-)
14:21:07  <Yexo> should the small airport have fences in the nw (behind the buildings) and behind the (water?) tower?
14:21:40  <Ammler> and try to keep below 800 for images on tt-forums... :-P
14:22:11  <Ammler> <-- 2 depots don't align proper
14:28:05  <planetmaker> which depots don't align?
14:30:33  <Hirundo> In the NML output code, sometimes a string is directly raised as error. Does this have a specific purpose?
14:31:47  <Yexo> no, those cases should be fixed
14:31:58  <Yexo> afaik it's only in output_grf
14:32:35  <Ammler> [16:27] <planetmaker> which depots don't align? <-- the 2 most bottow
14:32:39  <Ammler> m*
14:33:12  <planetmaker> true. Thanks
14:35:38  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 54:9db7b1378531: Change: Wrap readme at 80 characters (planetmaker) @
14:39:09  <Yexo> planetmaker: the small climate depended airport from airportsplus converted to nml:
14:39:16  <Yexo> the diff is against opengfx+
14:39:26  <planetmaker> oh :-)
14:39:46  <planetmaker> Yexo: if you want commit it
14:40:10  <planetmaker> would be nice :-)
14:40:14  <Yexo> ok :)
14:41:09  <planetmaker> I saved your conversion yesterday, but didn't come around to actually adding it. Too much to do with Swedish rails :-)
14:41:41  <Yexo> hmm? I'm only just done, I only made a start yesterday
14:42:08  <planetmaker> yes, but you gave me some paste line for a conversion of the small one IIRC
14:42:37  <Yexo> yes, but at that time there were only 3 tiles onverted or so, only the runway I think
14:42:40  <planetmaker> I didn't go through it in detail, though
14:42:42  <planetmaker> ah
14:43:19  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ - Revision 28:8acf583379ae: Feature: climate dependent small airport (yexo) @
14:44:04  <Yexo> I'm making heavy use of the preprocessor to avoid writing a lot of duplicate code, but there is still a lot of code
14:48:21  <planetmaker> interesting. I didn't know this way worked: +		0: name ## _normal;\
14:48:45  <planetmaker> I shall remember that :-)
14:49:33  <planetmaker> and I think Swedish rails teaches me that not all fences are nicely aligned...
14:49:49  <planetmaker> looking how a fence on a slope does NOT align with the wall of the depot
14:50:23  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Revision 348:0635875033b4: Fix: Writing sprites to grf with compression bit 0... (Hirundo) @
14:50:23  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Revision 349:d3e7f64fc87b: Codechange: Introduce base class for output classe... (Hirundo) @
14:50:23  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Revision 350:83cafc3a737a: Codechange: Don't use low-level writing methods in... (Hirundo) @
14:50:25  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Revision 351:c95ae653d721: Codechange: Introduce methods start_sprite and end... (Hirundo) @
14:50:29  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Revision 352:a5d6ca2fc0f9: Codechange: Use start_sprite and end_sprite in the... (Hirundo) @
14:50:33  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Revision 353:84c1eb831b43: Codechange: Add assertions to makes sure print_xxx... (Hirundo) @
14:50:39  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Revision 354:86bd8693ef1a: Codechange: Keep track of the number of written by... (Hirundo) @
14:52:39  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 55:ab2260bda7bd: Fix: Depots were not properly aligned (planetmaker) @
14:58:44  <Yexo> nice work on the output code Hirundo :)
14:59:05  <Hirundo> tnx
15:06:55  <Hirundo> Caching the handles of image files seems to have little impact on the speed of the program
15:07:00  <Hirundo> <- diff used
15:08:10  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Revision 355:dde8fe428a10: Codechange: Replace error message with assertion, ... (Hirundo) @
15:10:57  <Ammler> planetmaker: is there any howto, how to start with the newgrf_makefile framework
15:11:07  <planetmaker> in the readme
15:11:08  <Ammler> or shall I just copy the repo
15:11:21  <planetmaker> but a copy of the repo is what it amounts mostly to.
15:11:33  <planetmaker> You want to leave out a few files, though
15:11:50  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 460:376658e9d1e5: Fix: Alignment of rail fences (planetmaker) @
15:12:59  <planetmaker> most notably you don't need necessarily the files in sprites/nfo
15:13:14  <planetmaker> and you need to adjust .hgignore and Makefile.config
15:13:15  <Yexo> Hirundo: the image library is not the problem, is ver yslow
15:13:26  <Yexo> try the -u flag, it'll be notable faster
15:14:31  * planetmaker wonders whether that flag should be added to the Makefile.config
15:14:56  <Hirundo> the -u flag at least uncovered a bug *fixes*
15:15:42  <planetmaker> Ammler: and you don't want ;-)
15:16:04  <planetmaker> which is mostly a convenience script for myself I have to admit
15:16:29  <planetmaker> which somehow not entirely sensibly got added somewhen it seems.
15:16:34  <planetmaker> But it's important for me :-P
15:17:14  <Hirundo> Should this fake compression algorithm take compression bit 0x02 into account?
15:17:25  <Hirundo> To determine the sprite size, that is
15:18:41  <Ammler> does nml already crop?
15:18:59  <Hirundo> yes
15:19:22  <Yexo> Hirundo: I'm not really sure
15:19:42  <Hirundo> Is it intended as a fast replacement for lz77?
15:19:45  <Ammler> what about "autosize detection" :-)
15:19:50  <Yexo> yes
15:20:05  <Yexo> when in doubt, give the same parameters (-u and/or -c) to grfcodec and compare the output
15:27:21  <Hirundo> Judging by the grfcodec source, realcompress and fakecompress are just two separate 'compression' algorithms
15:32:00  <Yexo> fakecompress does the same encoding as realcompress only it doesn't really try to compress the input
15:32:12  <planetmaker> eh?
15:32:27  <Yexo> the output format is the same
15:32:31  <planetmaker> that sounds like an oxymoron
15:32:45  <planetmaker> wash me but don't use water
15:33:19  <planetmaker> it just by-passes compression in the assumption that it is already compressed?
15:33:46  <Yexo> planetmaker: the output format is something like: REAL_BYTES: this_is_literal_output LOOK_BACK_3_2 (insert 2 bytes at this position, they are the same as 3 bytes back in the stream, REAL_BYTES this_is_literal_output
15:34:12  <Yexo> fakecompress just never uses the "LOOK_BACK_" codes and only outputs literal output
15:34:26  <planetmaker> ah
15:34:29  <Yexo> realcompress tries to find double data and uses LOOK_BACK items there which saves space
15:34:36  <planetmaker> so... some missing RLE
15:40:12  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Revision 356:6b0363d0c3b6: Fix: Fake compression (-u) did not work as it should. (Hirundo) @
15:40:30  <planetmaker> Yexo: good to know OpenMSX works for you.
15:41:17  <planetmaker> besides... is it about time to advertize NML somewhat in the NewGRF developers forum?
15:41:34  <planetmaker> I don't want to make the first post of a separate thread :-)
15:41:53  <Yexo> yes, i think it's about time
15:42:19  <planetmaker> I thought about making a comparison posting by using SwedishRails as an example to compare things
15:42:33  <Yexo> Hirundo: at some time you had plans to remove the SELF/PARENT param from switch blocks and prepend it to each variable
15:42:36  <planetmaker> It illustrates the ease of NML quite nicely :-)
15:42:49  <Yexo> do you still want ot do that or is that old since #1007 ?
15:43:57  <Hirundo> I haven't had the time for either
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15:44:20  <Hirundo> I'll look at it tonight, but first I'm gonna get myself some food :P
15:44:36  <Yexo> I think #1007 can be implemented in a way that's backwards compatible, removing SELF/PARENT as parameter is not possible in a backwards compatible way
15:44:55  <Yexo> I'd like to have a somwwhat stable syntax before creating a forum post
15:45:12  <Yexo> extensions to the syntax are ok, breaking previous syntax not so much
15:45:58  <Hirundo> I agree
15:46:12  <planetmaker> I understand that well :-)
15:46:27  <planetmaker> so... not quite yet?
15:47:28  <Yexo> if Hirundo that the current switch code is good enough and we can swap it later for #1007 then we're good to go
15:47:35  <Yexo> I don't know of any other issues with the syntax
15:47:52  * Hirundo checks the issue list
15:50:35  <Hirundo> Is file/line information being reported for errors?
15:51:02  <Yexo> only line
15:51:15  <Yexo> see #969 and #996
15:51:21  <Yexo> both are becoming more important
15:52:16  <Hirundo> 996 is from openttd-gui
15:53:14  <Hirundo> I assume you mean #995
15:53:35  <Yexo> yes
15:57:28  <Hirundo> We can leave out the self/parent stuff for now, I think
16:03:35  <Yexo> do you see any other issues that should be solved before announcing nml on the forums?
16:15:09  <Hirundo> I don't see any big issues, apart from the general more features==better
16:15:49  <planetmaker> The error handling is not a show stopper (#995)
16:17:08  <Yexo> then go ahead and make a forum post planetmaker :)
16:17:19  <planetmaker> nor is I think the output of where an error exactly occured (though it's nice)
16:17:37  <planetmaker> Yexo: that should be up to you usually... you're the father of NML :-)
16:18:01  <Yexo> I really don't care, but I'll do it then
16:18:57  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: update from r547 to r557 done (1 errors) -
16:19:44  <Brot6> firs: update from r910 to r913 done (2 errors) -
16:20:38  <Brot6> nml: update from r347 to r356 done -
16:21:10  <Brot6> ogfxplus: update from r27 to r28 done (4 errors) -
16:22:19  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r459 to r460 done -
16:24:22  <planetmaker> NML = newgrf meta language instead of nfo meta language?
16:24:33  <Brot6> swedishrails: update from r31 to r55 done (4 errors) -
16:24:35  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 32bpp-extra (r36), airportsplus (r50), bros (r12), comic-houses (r70), fish (r375), heqs (r320), newgrf_makefile (ERROR r99), nmts (r16), nutracks (r69), openmsx (r57), opensfx (r94), snowlinemod (r12), worldairlinersset (r643)
16:24:53  <planetmaker> ups... 24 commits to SwedishRails today...
16:25:09  <Ammler> hehe
16:25:40  <Yexo> <planetmaker> NML = newgrf meta language instead of nfo meta language? <- that's better now indeed
16:25:46  <Yexo> or just keep it at NML
16:25:56  <Ammler> hehe
16:26:04  <planetmaker> yes, NML as the catch phrase. But people will ask
16:26:24  <Ammler> GML
16:27:09  <Ammler> or Better GRF Maker :-P
16:28:13  <planetmaker> Yexo: then the main py file needs renaming is kinda an understatement :-)
16:28:56  <Ammler> just maybe?
16:28:59  <Yexo> planetmaker: yes, but we can't call it "nml" because the module is already called "nml"
16:29:05  <Ammler> oh
16:29:08  <Yexo> Ammler: there is no ".py" extension for the main script
16:29:43  <Ammler> well, call it nml-wrapper
16:29:53  <planetmaker> nml2grf
16:29:54  <Ammler> and then let the installer rename it
16:30:11  <Ammler> afaik, that is how other python script do it
16:30:16  <planetmaker> or nmlcodec
16:32:27  * planetmaker likes nmlcodec
16:32:34  <planetmaker> pngcodec
16:32:38  <planetmaker> grfcodec
16:32:42  <planetmaker> catcodec
16:33:03  <Ammler> nmlcodec is wrong
16:33:26  <Ammler> it is <endformat>codec
16:33:36  <Ammler> not <source>codec
16:34:24  <Ammler> nmlencoder maybe?
16:35:18  <Ammler> anyway, nml2grf should be added
16:41:47  <Yexo> I'd rather keep a single name instead of 2 files that do the same (like nml2nfo and nml2grf)
16:42:20  <Yexo> Ammler: and grfcodec and also do grf->nfo
16:42:28  <Yexo> no idea about catcodec
16:42:46  <Yexo> but nmlencoder sounds ok to me
16:42:49  <Yexo> Hirundo / planetmaker?
16:43:45  <Ammler> well, you might have time until the first release for the name :-)
16:44:19  <Hirundo> hmmm
16:44:23  <Yexo> that is yet anothre question: when to do the first release
16:45:51  <Yexo> Ammler / planetmaker: I've seen a roadmap for some other projects, how do I enable that in redmine?
16:46:11  <Ammler> Yexo: define a Version
16:46:19  <planetmaker> settings->version
16:46:20  <Ammler> and you have a roadmap
16:46:25  <Yexo> ok, thanks :)
17:11:01  <planetmaker> hm...
17:11:23  <planetmaker> I wonder whether the generated parameter math in NFO code is correct
17:12:41  <planetmaker> hm, probably. Just in a funny way
17:16:38  <Yexo> can you give an example?
17:17:01  <Yexo> I've modified that code yesterday, could've introduced a bug (although I hope not!)
17:18:15  <Ammler> parameters might not be testable?
17:19:01  <Ammler> loading the GRF with openttd and check for debug output?
17:21:27  <planetmaker> Yexo: I'm looking at the parameter usage of SwedishRails
17:21:42  <planetmaker> let me paste the NML
17:21:45  <planetmaker> *NFO
17:23:54  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Bug #985: conditional expressions (Hirundo) @
17:26:17  <planetmaker> <-- Yexo
17:27:36  <planetmaker> I can't say, I follow the logic entirely
17:27:46  <planetmaker> but ingame the grf seems to work as intended
17:28:00  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Bug #985: conditional expressions (yexo) @
17:29:02  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Bug #985: conditional expressions (yexo) @
17:31:50  <Hirundo> planetmaker: what is the nml sourcE?
17:32:02  <planetmaker> Hirundo: of the NFO I posted?
17:32:08  <Hirundo> yes
17:32:16  <planetmaker> parts of the SwedishRails set
17:32:17  <Yexo> first few lines annotated
17:35:04  <planetmaker> Yexo: I'm most notably missing the code querying the first grf parameter
17:35:13  <planetmaker> or do I miss that?
17:35:25  <Yexo> #
17:35:25  <Yexo> 5 * 5 0D 0A \D| 40 00
17:35:34  <Yexo> param[10] = param[0x40] | param[0]
17:35:36  <Yexo> that you mean?
17:35:58  <planetmaker> yes
17:36:00  <planetmaker> :-)
17:36:06  <planetmaker> then all will be fine
17:36:43  <frosch123> that division is quite tricky :)
17:36:55  <planetmaker> division?
17:37:16  <planetmaker> quak! :-)
17:37:16  <frosch123> param[0x40] = param[0x40] / param[0x40] (-> if param[0x40] == 0 then param[0x40] = 0, otherwise param[0x40] = 1)
17:37:34  <planetmaker> :-)
17:37:36  <frosch123> moin
17:38:26  <Yexo> frosch123: both openttd and ttdpatch do "a / b -> if b == 0, return a"
17:38:32  <planetmaker> Hirundo: param[10] = (ttd_platform == PLATFORM_TTDPATCH) | (param[0]); // Use TTD ground sprites
17:38:38  <planetmaker> if ((climate == CLIMATE_TEMPERATE) & (param[10] == 1)) {
17:39:36  <planetmaker> interesting how it can be two lines and... like unreadable in NFO ;-)
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18:09:17  <Hirundo> Yexo: An else block is a conditional with expr == None ?
18:09:25  <Yexo> yes
18:10:21  <planetmaker> Yexo: I guess then I'll make a long first NML posting. You're mod anyway (are you there?) and could edit it later :-)
18:10:41  <Yexo> I'm only mod in the openttd section
18:10:48  <Yexo> I can't do anything more then you can in the graphics section
18:11:08  <planetmaker> oh, ok. It's only 200 lines long so far :-P
18:11:10  <Yexo> but that doesn't matter, I'll make the second post in that topic
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18:11:14  <Yexo> "only" :p
18:11:18  <Yexo> hello Alberth
18:11:23  <planetmaker> hi Alberth
18:11:26  <Alberth> hello
18:11:42  <planetmaker> Yexo: it's a small rail types newgrf which I present in both NML and NFO there. Piece by piece
18:11:58  <planetmaker> Preceeded by a small introduction what NML is about in the first place
18:12:00  <Yexo> nice :)
18:12:39  <Alberth> lots of changes in the nml project :)
18:13:03  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Revision 357:1310fbe03bec: Fix: Don't try to reduce the conditional expressio... (Hirundo) @
18:16:10  <Hirundo> Alberth: I made some changes regarding, but I don't know how much more you had in mind
18:21:14  <Alberth> I noticed from the commit messages, still have to read the actual diffs
18:27:12  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Revision 358:e78159c55de2: Fix: Testing after 'fixing' is usually a good idea... (Hirundo) @
18:29:16  <Brot6> NFO Meta Language - Revision 359:a4e7578fb37d: Codechange: Register template declarations when ge... (Hirundo) @
18:30:44  <Ammler> please report, if you have some laggs or something else
18:31:41  <planetmaker> <-- Yexo Alberth Hirundo
18:31:43  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - NML - a Newgrf Meta Language (at
18:33:46  <Hirundo> and there was much rejoicing
18:34:06  <Alberth> r349: the 3 lines doc string probably belong inside the class
18:34:34  <Alberth> r353: a bit paranoid? :)
18:34:39  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #1018: recursive templates (planetmaker) @
18:34:39  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 353:84c1eb831b43: Codechange: Add assertions to makes sure print_... (Hirundo) @
18:34:39  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 354:86bd8693ef1a: Codechange: Keep track of the number of written... (Hirundo) @
18:34:40  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 355:dde8fe428a10: Codechange: Replace error message with assertio... (Hirundo) @
18:34:44  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 356:6b0363d0c3b6: Fix: Fake compression (-u) did not work as it s... (Hirundo) @
18:34:48  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #985: conditional expressions (Hirundo) @
18:34:51  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #985: conditional expressions (yexo) @
18:34:55  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 357:1310fbe03bec: Fix: Don't try to reduce the conditional expres... (Hirundo) @
18:34:56  <Alberth> r354 \o/
18:34:58  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 358:e78159c55de2: Fix: Testing after 'fixing' is usually a good i... (Hirundo) @
18:35:02  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 359:a4e7578fb37d: Codechange: Register template declarations when... (Hirundo) @
18:35:03  <planetmaker> hm... reciting everything again, Brot6 ?
18:35:52  <Hirundo> Alberth: You're free to fix whatever is and isn't broken
18:36:21  <Alberth> it is all quite alright imho
18:38:15  <Ammler> planetmaker: did you change the title of #1018?
18:39:08  <Alberth> Hirundo: checking of the byte count was my major motivation for the issue, and you solved that already
18:39:08  <Alberth> next step would be to make things that belong together go at one line in NFO. Not sure whether that is of any use though, since the output format is not going to be used much.
18:39:48  <planetmaker> Alberth: the nfo output is not that bad, it's quite alright actually
18:40:52  <planetmaker> Ammler: I did not
18:41:13  <Ammler> I have no idea, what can cause it repeating
18:41:30  <planetmaker> Alberth: nfo output in multiple lines is actually quite good and the usual way to write it by hand, too
18:41:46  <planetmaker> There's no way one can understand a string of 25 consecutive bytes or more
18:41:57  <andythenorth> I always split nfo into multiple lines
18:42:04  <andythenorth> even action 2 / 3
18:42:11  <Alberth> I'd hope so :)
18:42:19  <Yexo> planetmaker: "   track_overlay_group; // irrelevant, we just need one set here" <- that is no longer true
18:42:24  <Yexo> you can leave out the default group
18:42:29  <Alberth> as I said, I am not sure how much use it is to put more effort in it
18:42:38  <planetmaker> oh, can I? Nice
18:42:51  <planetmaker> Alberth: then currently: not much use ;-)
18:43:43  <Alberth> Hirundo: you heard the gurus, no more work needed for #974  :)
18:44:01  <Alberth> any near future plans for the RANDOM token?
18:44:10  <Yexo> random action 2
18:44:12  <Alberth> otherwise, we could comment it out for now
18:46:30  <planetmaker> Alberth: random action2 is somewhen needed
18:46:45  <planetmaker> better implement it than comment it out ;-)
18:47:41  <Alberth> he, there is a road map !
18:48:09  <Yexo> I've added a few issues that I think are "high priority"
18:48:14  <planetmaker> Alberth: yes. someone defined versions :-)
18:48:25  <planetmaker> (not me)
18:48:27  <Yexo> if there is anything else that really needs to be done before a first release just set the target version of those issues
18:49:41  <planetmaker> I nevertheless added 0.2.0 ;-)
18:52:53  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the FIRS templates that aren't recognised as dependencies....anything I can do to fix that?
18:53:06  <Yexo> planetmaker: a bit inconsistent
18:53:14  <Yexo> top left is no snow on tile, no snow on rail
18:53:29  <Yexo> bottom right there is snow on the tile, still no snow on the track
18:53:48  <planetmaker> Yexo: yes it is. It's an OpenTTD bug. Bug peter1138 or SmatZ. The latter has a patch :-)
18:54:03  <Yexo> ok, I was just wondering :)
18:54:09  <planetmaker> it's a matter of how snow transition is handled
18:54:14  <Yexo> as the snow on the tile is consistent wrt to the height
18:54:15  <planetmaker> and how rail types handle those
18:54:41  <planetmaker> I can only query the tile type. which can be snow or not snow
18:55:03  <planetmaker> so tracks themselves will always be binary with/out snow
18:55:11  <planetmaker> but the ground sprite could IMHO keep the transition
18:55:28  <Yexo> not sure if that's possible, normally the amount of snow is stored in the map
18:55:34  <Yexo> but that's not possible for rail tiles
18:55:51  <planetmaker> <-- actually I created that report to that end (somewhat)
18:56:01  <planetmaker> Yexo: but SmatZ has a patch :-)
18:57:06  <planetmaker> let me post his screenshots:
18:57:20  <Alberth> (08:50:01 PM) planetmaker: I nevertheless added 0.2.0 ;-)  <-- thinking ahead eh?  :)
18:57:43  <planetmaker> well, yes. Also as a target for things which should go to the next one
18:57:58  <planetmaker> As such a mid-term goal as opposed to "somewhen" for un-tagged issues
18:58:16  <planetmaker> at least that's how I handle my projects here :-)
18:58:23  <planetmaker> current and 2nd next
18:59:25  * Alberth branches to #969
19:00:38  <Yexo> Alberth: just uploaded the last version of the patch I had for that
19:00:48  <Alberth> ok :)
19:01:10  <Yexo> I'm not working on it, so go ahead, that patch might save you some time
19:01:11  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 914:eab02836f888: Add: template for mine clustering (andythenorth) @
19:01:11  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #969: Parse #file and #line lines that are written by a preprocessor (yexo) @
19:02:10  <planetmaker> I conceptually don't get how you know which line was in which file if nml gets the thing after pre-processing...
19:02:39  <planetmaker> (though it'd be nice to get the message wrt source files and not the NML file which I have after pre-processing)
19:02:41  <Yexo> the preprocessor prints lines like this: #line 3 "other_file.nml"
19:02:56  <Yexo> which indicates that the next line in the input is line 3 of other_file.nml
19:03:02  <planetmaker> ah yes. those lines which I currently delete :-P
19:03:07  <Yexo> yep :p
19:04:04  <Yexo> when that's done there is no longer a need to write the preprocessed nml file anywhere
19:27:29  <Ammler> hmm, planetmaker, theoretically, I could leave tomorrow noon
19:29:07  <Ammler> maybe you need help for preparation?
19:30:22  <planetmaker> I wouldn't mind some help there :-)
19:30:49  <planetmaker> I'll need to go shopping tomorrow. I should leave university tomorrow noon, too
19:31:06  <planetmaker> Ammler: you're welcome here whenever you arrive
19:31:24  <planetmaker> when would you arrive then?
19:31:39  <Ammler> train needs 8.5 hours
19:31:46  <planetmaker> so around 21h
19:31:50  <Ammler> ah, that is loooong :-)
19:31:56  <planetmaker> yes, very :S
19:32:28  <Ammler> it also doesn't sell online tickets :-P
19:32:50  <planetmaker> hm, why not?
19:34:54  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 360:8ce0d0b566fe: Codechange: Move template expansion to a new fu... (Hirundo) @
19:34:54  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 915:af17d1a61911: Change: defined cb28 handling for Arab... (andythenorth) @
19:34:54  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 916:95110516be6f: Change: defined cb28 handling for Mixe... (andythenorth) @
19:34:56  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 917:84fd1493fc54: Change: defined cb28 handling for Dair... (andythenorth) @
19:35:00  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 918:2e9d30d61e30: Change: defined cb28 handling for Frui... (andythenorth) @
19:35:04  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 919:4cd571a91a01: Change: defined cb28 handling for Shee... (andythenorth) @
19:35:08  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 361:5823309ce863: Feature: Allow recursive templates, i.e. templa... (Hirundo) @
19:35:12  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 920:43a40cc822cd: Change: removed include for cb28 from ... (andythenorth) @
19:35:14  <Ammler> maybe too late
19:35:16  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #1018 (Closed): recursive templates (Hirundo) @
19:37:13  <planetmaker> should not be too late usually. I book my private online tickets 10 minutes before I leave for the station ;-)
19:42:48  <Ammler> well, I guess, it is because of country cross
19:43:12  <Ammler> I calculate 100€
19:43:36  <planetmaker> :-)
19:45:08  <Brot6> Redmine - Revision 3770: Plugin models and controllers must be unloadable. (edavis10) @
19:45:08  <Brot6> Redmine - Revision 3771: Add example url and author url to the plugin generator. (edavis10) @
19:46:09  <planetmaker> in any case, I also would have cable connection here, if you bring a non-wifi laptop :-)
19:46:50  <Ammler> oh well :-)
20:04:18  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 362:321938c16893: Fix (r299): Missing module name. (Alberth) @
20:07:31  <Alberth>
20:14:16  <Yexo> nice patch Alberth :)
20:15:55  <Alberth> I would have liked to do this line-based, but it would have broken the lexer completely. I guess we have to live for a while with this sub-optimal solution :)
20:16:34  <Yexo> what do you mean with "line-based"?
20:19:17  <Alberth> first split the input in lines. Then handle the line directive. Then transform the other text to tokens
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20:19:56  <Alberth> now you can do      foo(...);  #line 13 "bad_line_directive_line"
20:20:21  <Alberth> ie ^\s*# is not a requirement
20:20:25  <Yexo> for that we'd need another layour around the lexer (or our own lexer)
20:20:40  <Alberth> our own is simpler :)
20:21:26  <Alberth> as I said, it breaks the current lexer completely. A little too much for now, I think
20:22:50  <planetmaker> Yexo: Alberth but it's correct that currently NML chokes on the pre-processor lines, right?
20:23:03  * Alberth nods
20:23:08  <planetmaker> because if I don't cut out the # lines ... ok :-)
20:23:18  <Yexo> not when Alberth commits that patch
20:23:24  <planetmaker> I should not unnecessarily highlight people. sorry
20:24:12  <Alberth> Yexo: good enough for now?
20:24:17  <Yexo> yep
20:25:04  <planetmaker> sounds awesome :-)
20:25:27  <planetmaker> And I'm curious whether there'll be any response concerning NML in the German forum. I doubt it actually ;-)
20:26:32  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #969 (Closed): Parse #file and #line lines that are written by a p... (Alberth) @
20:26:32  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 363:088caeb1facc: Add: Allow line directive lines in the NML inpu... (Alberth) @
20:27:43  <planetmaker> hm. no :-S
20:29:12  <Alberth> Ammler: did you look into a local setup of repos that reproduces the lack of rejecting bad pushes?
20:29:51  <planetmaker> Alberth:
20:29:53  <Ammler> Alberth: lack?
20:30:32  <Alberth> #line <num> "<file>"
20:30:50  <planetmaker> that's the default gcc preprocessor output
20:31:06  <planetmaker> so I need to grep for the others?
20:31:54  <Alberth> Ammler: I could push bad commit, right?
20:32:03  <Ammler> yes
20:32:07  <Ammler> no rejects
20:32:22  <Alberth> that sounds like a lack of rejects to me :p
20:32:37  <Ammler> yes, but it never worked
20:32:49  <Ammler> I thought, you are aware of it
20:33:18  <Alberth> I am, but to figure what is wrong, I'd like to have a local setup that shows the issue
20:33:53  <Alberth> While developing, I did push to another repo over the file system, and that worked here as expected.
20:34:25  <Alberth> So at this moment, I have no clue why it does not work, nor any way of debugging
20:34:37  <Ammler> hmm, please give me your public ssh key
20:34:47  <Ammler> then you could push with ssh
20:35:01  <Ammler> and also check the hook yourself
20:37:11  <Alberth> Thanks for the offer, but I'd prefer to set it up without need for an Internet. I'll do some local experiments first if you don't mind.
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20:47:31  <planetmaker> Alberth: will you change NML such that all pre-processor output is accepted and possibly just ignored?
20:47:56  <Alberth> I was looking into accepting your output too
20:48:14  <planetmaker> that'd be quite convenient :-)
20:48:24  <Alberth>  shows that #line was used in the past :)
20:48:25  <Webster> Title: Differences from previous versions - The C Preprocessor (at
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20:52:31  <Ammler> Alberth: it should work locally the same as with remote repo
20:52:43  <Ammler> so if it works on your side, but doesn't on our server
20:52:51  <Ammler> we need to investigate it here
21:04:06  <Yexo> planetmaker: instead of | grep -v -E '^#' you can also give the -P flag to cpp
21:14:47  <planetmaker> nice, I didn't know that either. Though I'll speculate now on the possibility to get rid of that part at all :-)
21:14:56  <planetmaker> and so long the current implementation can stay
21:15:09  <planetmaker> or at least till after Sunday ;-)
21:19:32  <Yexo> I just came across that information when looking for info on the new #line output
21:23:57  <Alberth> hope this helps
21:24:21  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 364:65bf44eab16b: Fix (r363): And of course the world uses more t... (Alberth) @
21:25:25  <planetmaker> it helps along, Alberth, till line 204 of railtypes.pnml
21:25:49  <Alberth> not a #line line, I hope :p
21:26:05  <planetmaker> an empty line...
21:26:21  <Alberth> oh, that one is your fault :p
21:26:27  <planetmaker> # 3 "<stdin>" 2
21:26:30  <planetmaker> actually that ^
21:26:43  <planetmaker> dunno where or how that gets there
21:27:02  <planetmaker> it's a pre-processor output, though
21:27:19  <Alberth> I tested with your    # 1 "src/header.pnml" 1
21:27:19  <Yexo> because of this: $(_V) $(CC) $(CC_FLAGS) $< | grep -v -E '^#' > $@
21:27:28  <Yexo> you give the input file as stdin to the preprocessor
21:27:49  <Alberth> < and > does not matter
21:29:32  <Alberth> most likely it is an error above it
21:30:38  <Alberth> I can use that # 3 ...   line in my input test without problem
21:31:12  <Alberth> hmm, off to bed. good night
21:31:48  <planetmaker> good night
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21:36:02  <Brot6> feed devactivity had 11 updates, showing the latest 10
21:36:02  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 922:bbbb38d3f6c1: Change: added clustering code to iron ... (andythenorth) @
21:36:02  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 923:e91cee3f1206: Change: added clustering code to bauxi... (andythenorth) @
21:36:02  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 924:a2052cc7932b: Change: increase distance limits for m... (andythenorth) @
21:36:06  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 925:b8a736f3e8bc: Change: remove unnecessary line from f... (andythenorth) @
21:36:10  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 926:4081ccc5f625: Change: remove unnecessary line from m... (andythenorth) @
21:36:14  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 927:d1cec20bcc0b: Change: improved number of clusters fo... (andythenorth) @
21:36:18  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 928:ffa8c2a91447: Change: fixed comment for mine clusters (andythenorth) @
21:36:22  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 929:2d07434005ee: Change: increased probability for Iron... (andythenorth) @
21:36:26  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 930:835bad26dab6: Change: increase slightly default prod... (andythenorth) @
21:36:32  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 931:551912c390d1: Change: increase slightly default prod... (andythenorth) @
21:55:11  <Yexo> planetmaker: it works here now with ogfxplus
21:55:45  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 365:a45bbeca7d68: Fix (r363, r364): #line directives without any ... (yexo) @
22:00:44  <planetmaker> it works here now with SwedishRails, too :-)
22:00:54  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 366:a7f63bfad304: Revert r365: fix was wrong (yexo) @
22:01:13  <Yexo> r366 is the proper fix, but both should work
22:02:01  <planetmaker> nice, thanks :-)
22:04:18  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 56:5650ea960bbe: Change: [Makefile] Don't strip pre-processor lines anym... (planetmaker) @
22:04:18  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 100:ced1e521d23c: Change: [NML] Don't strip pre-processor lines... (planetmaker) @
22:04:23  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: compile of 0.2.0 failed -
22:05:52  <planetmaker> ^ considered in NML projects and example makefile project
22:06:01  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ - Revision 29:78dc3ea020a8: Change: [Makefile] Don't strip pre-processor lines anymore. ... (planetmaker) @
22:07:31  <Brot6> newgrf-makefile: compile of r100 failed -
22:07:48  <Ammler> so it isn't the "_" :-)
22:08:51  <planetmaker> but what is it?
22:10:44  <Ammler> good question
22:17:02  <Yexo> <planetmaker> but what is it? <- what is that about?
22:17:53  <Ammler> newgrf_makefile doesn't build
22:18:00  <Ammler> hmm, it does
22:19:13  <planetmaker> but reports as failed. For some reason
22:19:34  <planetmaker> But it's not NML-related, yexo :-)
22:19:44  <planetmaker> hm... I should change newgrf makefile soon-ish
22:19:50  <planetmaker> Default = NML - style :-)
22:20:05  <Yexo> wait with that till we have a proper nml release
22:20:22  <Ammler> planetmaker: it fails, because there is no grf
22:20:31  <planetmaker> well, the last newgrf makefile release will remain nfo
22:20:39  <planetmaker> Ammler: but there should be
22:22:14  <planetmaker> hm, but it's indeed a makefile error
22:22:41  <planetmaker> I didn't build bundle_zip of the example newgrf for long, I guess
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22:24:42  <Ammler> if you are at it, fix the tar issue :-)
22:24:50  <Ammler> or revert, whatever
22:25:24  <planetmaker> hm, not now, I guess. But make an issue so I don't forget ;-)
22:25:34  <Ammler> yes, that is done :-P
22:25:44  <planetmaker> Especially as I made it this way because you wanted it :-P
22:26:03  <planetmaker> he, I missed the issue then :-P
22:26:20  <planetmaker> nah, I should hit the bed now :-)
22:26:27  <Yexo> heh, same for me
22:26:29  <Yexo> good night
22:26:37  <Ammler>
22:26:50  <Ammler> good night from here too
22:26:51  <planetmaker> I'd say, see you tomorrow Ammler, see you the day after tomorrow, Yexo, if I shouldn't be too much around tomorrow
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22:55:06  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 932:563d993ef2eb: Change: tweak mine cluster distances (andythenorth) @
22:55:06  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 933:6f32f6b6c5c9: Add: template for clustering forests (andythenorth) @
22:55:06  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 934:360e1b172eab: Change: forest now uses clustering (andythenorth) @
22:55:09  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 935:8e17a8bbb860: Change: adjusted Forest clustering (andythenorth) @
22:55:13  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 936:59a22b6adf98: Change: adjusted Forest probability in... (andythenorth) @
22:56:10  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 937:34c9d41d394d: Change: small increase in max distance... (andythenorth) @
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