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01:31:42 *** dan123 has quit IRC 03:44:37 <Brot6> Redmine - Revision 3814: Updating documentation for the 0.9.5 release. (edavis10) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3814 03:44:37 <Brot6> Redmine - Revision 3815: Bump release to 0.9.5 (edavis10) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3815 03:44:37 <Brot6> Redmine - Revision 3816: Merged r3814 from trunk. (edavis10) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3816 03:44:37 <Brot6> Redmine - Revision 3817: Merged r3815 from trunk. (edavis10) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3817 03:44:39 <Brot6> Redmine - Revision 3818: Tagging 0.9.5 (edavis10) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3818 05:30:44 *** Webster has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 06:01:19 *** dan123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:07:05 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:25:47 *** dan123 has quit IRC 09:03:55 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1043: NML fails on TTDPatch (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1043#change-2735 09:10:43 *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:21:51 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1043: NML fails on TTDPatch (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1043#change-2736 09:28:16 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1043: NML fails on TTDPatch (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1043#change-2737 09:31:31 <Ammler> planetmaker: did you ever nforenum the swr nfo? 09:36:41 <planetmaker> never 09:37:06 <planetmaker> and why should I? renum doesn't support rail types... 09:37:15 <planetmaker> as such it'll complain big time 10:00:09 *** ODM has quit IRC 10:22:06 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:24:55 <Ammler> well, it isn't worth to spend more time to the ttdp issue 10:33:35 <planetmaker> well... for SE rails it'd be worth it. Otherwise there's no point drawing all those level crossings... 10:35:09 <Ammler> nobody complained about it isn't working in patch 10:35:20 <Ammler> so either I have another setup or nobody is using it 10:38:42 <planetmaker> I'd count on the latter :-) 10:39:20 * Ammler too 10:41:32 <Rubidium> Q: does SAC use it yet? 10:42:36 <Rubidium> Q: have you looked in the screenshots forum recently? 10:43:55 <Rubidium> A: no, I haven't recently... TTDP screenshot threads have almost all fallen of the first page. TTDP really nearing its dead? 10:46:20 <planetmaker> might well be. Despite I'll ask wallyweb 10:47:40 <planetmaker> indeed ever since DaleStan disappeared it got *really* silent around TTDP 10:48:01 <planetmaker> no commit in 6 weeks 10:55:17 <Rubidium> yeah... momentum got seriously killed 10:55:35 <Ammler> well, it died since patchman leaft 10:55:38 <Ammler> left* 10:56:00 <Ammler> it was mainly a one-man-project 10:57:50 <Rubidium> JGR and ... were working on it as well 10:57:58 <Rubidium> or do you mean nforenum/grfcodec? 10:58:26 <planetmaker> Rubidium: I do have a feature request concerning music: make the setting 'mix' the deault one. Or is it? 10:58:44 <Ammler> well, but he still kept the project leader 10:58:48 <Ammler> without beeing online 10:58:57 <planetmaker> And no, I talked about TTDP. But Lackie and JGR didn't do much either recently. 10:58:58 <Ammler> that would be like Darkvater would still lead openttd 10:59:13 <planetmaker> And Patchman didn't transfer his responsibilities when he became more and more scarce 10:59:27 <Ammler> ^ 10:59:51 <Rubidium> but it's killed due to lack of releases 10:59:59 <Rubidium> and nobody has the balls to pick that up 11:00:03 *** dan123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:00:09 <Ammler> yes, that's what I mean 11:01:08 <Ammler> well, since openttd supports almost everything what patch does, patch is only about hacking a game, not playing anymore 11:01:26 <Ammler> so there is no reason for player to chose it 11:02:06 <Rubidium> magic signals, bridgeheads, crap over tunnels? 11:02:12 <Ammler> :-D 11:02:29 <Ammler> yeah, I wouldn't mind, if you include those features :-P 11:02:39 <Ammler> at least bridgeheads 11:02:44 <planetmaker> :-P 11:04:36 <planetmaker> I guess as usual: anyone is free to supply a good version of CBR :-) 11:05:01 <planetmaker> but indeed it might be needed to consider it separately from building over tunnel heads 11:05:17 <planetmaker> Might both become a newgrf feature actually... 11:05:51 <planetmaker> only allowed when the rail (tunnels) or bridge newgrf support them by supplying appropriate sprites 11:06:05 <Ammler> it is a nice feature, but not really required for the bigger openttd maps 11:06:26 <planetmaker> yes. But in towns it's nice :-) 11:06:46 <Ammler> if you could build a road over the tunnel, yes :-P 11:08:09 <planetmaker> well, that's what you need a newgrf variable for :-) 11:08:33 <planetmaker> then you could supply the appropriate sprites depending upon circumstances 11:08:45 <planetmaker> though it most probably still needs some default handling 11:10:50 <planetmaker> hm, one should update libpng... 11:11:00 <Ammler> where? 11:11:11 <planetmaker> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Kritische-Luecke-in-PNG-Referenz-Bibliothek-geschlossen-1029939.html 11:11:13 <Webster> Title: heise online - Kritische Lücke in PNG-Referenz-Bibliothek geschlossen (at www.heise.de) 11:21:25 <Hirundo> planetmaker: where did you use a random-block? I'd like some example code for in the docs 11:21:56 <planetmaker> In unpublished code so far ;-) 11:22:01 <planetmaker> let me give you the diffs 11:22:55 <Hirundo> did you use anything complicated (triggers/ (in)dependence) ? 11:23:13 <planetmaker> nope 11:23:32 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttd.org/226030 <-- it might not even apply as it was cut out from a bigger patch 11:23:48 <planetmaker> railtypes don't have those and with four bits... not much point 11:24:02 <planetmaker> *two bits 11:26:01 <Hirundo> I'll make up something big, complicated and most likely utterly useless in real life :) 11:26:10 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttd.org/226032 <-- this one definitely applies, but is much more voluminous 11:26:47 <planetmaker> but big, convoluted and voluminous means not using rail types, but industries or so 11:27:39 <planetmaker> Hirundo: what about actually renaming it to random_switch? 11:27:57 <planetmaker> I think it would really be more intuitive :-) 11:31:18 <Hirundo> Fine with me 11:33:45 *** dan123 has quit IRC 11:35:57 *** dan123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:38:24 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 508:ca116d5a4155: Doc [#967]: Document random-blocks in reference... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/ca116d5a4155 11:42:08 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 509:5548049a763e: Fix: Random types FORWARD_SELF and BACKWARD_SEL... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/5548049a763e 11:45:14 *** dan123 has quit IRC 11:45:45 *** dan123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:50:56 *** dan123 has quit IRC 11:56:18 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 510:a3875eac3cb0: Codechange: Move parsing of 'type' to action2ra... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/a3875eac3cb0 12:06:59 <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 91:025649b13e00: Change: [Makefile] Don't ship tars within a zip file (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swedishrails/repository/revisions/025649b13e00 12:06:59 <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 92:0f50d2222302: Change: Make the y coordinate a parameter for level cro... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swedishrails/repository/revisions/0f50d2222302 12:11:35 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 511:0da30126106d: Change: Rename 'random' to 'random_switch'. (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/0da30126106d 12:11:39 <Hirundo> planetmaker: The random->random_switch switch has been done 12:12:31 <planetmaker> nice :-) Thank you 12:16:22 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 512:9701928e7f0b: Doc: Document random->random_switch change. (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/9701928e7f0b 12:20:02 <planetmaker> And as Irwe's response to using them with introduction dates is positive, too, I shall implement that :-) 12:20:48 <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 93:716a2aee6638: Add: Sprites for modern level crossings for right side ... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swedishrails/repository/revisions/716a2aee6638 12:41:50 <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 94:d14012bf2c49: Add: Sprites for modern level crossings for left side t... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swedishrails/repository/revisions/d14012bf2c49 12:43:56 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 513:0694ca7f6029: Fix: [Docs] Add <p></p> tags around all text an... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/0694ca7f6029 13:00:17 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1043: NML fails on TTDPatch (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1043#change-2738 13:04:29 <planetmaker> Hirundo: from reference.html "TRIGGER_A | TRIGGER_B | ... | TRIGGER_Z To re-randomize only when all of the events have occured, use TRIGGER_ALL | TRIGGER_A | ..." 13:04:40 <planetmaker> the 2nd version should be &, right? 13:05:30 <Hirundo> no, bitmasks are 'assembled' using | 13:05:56 <Hirundo> TRIGGER_ALL is, in essence, just another bit (0x80) 13:07:24 <planetmaker> oh. I guess that needs making more clear :-) 13:07:43 <planetmaker> that adding TRIGGER_ALL is the important difference 13:28:41 <PeterT> Ammler: xOR is working on a plug-in system for xShunter \o/ 13:29:41 <Ammler> PeterT: xShunter is OT here 13:29:51 <PeterT> you're OT here! 13:29:52 <Ammler> only opensource 13:29:53 * PeterT runs away crying 13:32:25 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 514:474a76fba4e1: Doc: Amend documentation concerning random trig... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/474a76fba4e1 13:34:20 *** dan123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:44:40 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:53:53 <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 95:ba222b7b3fd8: Cleanup: document header.pnml better and prepare for le... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swedishrails/repository/revisions/ba222b7b3fd8 14:35:41 <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 96:4baa23fdb9e9: Feature: Modern versions of level crossings (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swedishrails/repository/revisions/4baa23fdb9e9 14:37:50 <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 103:fc4ddfe66fe6: Change: [NML] Use 'tnml' as extension for tem... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/newgrf-makefile/repository/revisions/fc4ddfe66fe6 14:53:07 <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 97:95e23c9f4b0a: Change: Generalize the template for modernization period (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swedishrails/repository/revisions/95e23c9f4b0a 14:57:50 <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 98:b031def590df: Fix: Comments concerning parameters (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swedishrails/repository/revisions/b031def590df 15:20:03 <DJNekkid> anyone know any artists who is good at "snowifying" buildings? 15:20:34 <Ammler> irwe 15:20:45 <DJNekkid> thats what i thought :) TY :D 15:20:49 <DJNekkid> i'll send him a PM 15:21:17 <Ammler> you are going to make a snowy house set? 15:21:29 <DJNekkid> no 15:21:46 <DJNekkid> but one of the ones i did selct for the artic subways didnt have a snowy version :) 15:21:55 <DJNekkid> i am NO drawer :) 15:47:27 <planetmaker> don't steal my drawer, DJNekkid :-P 15:47:49 <planetmaker> he's got many ground tiles and fences to do still :-P 15:48:02 <DJNekkid> one loucy building with some snow? :) 15:50:03 <planetmaker> :-) 15:50:23 <planetmaker> but I wonder why you don't take snow-aware buildings from the base set in the first place? 15:50:38 <DJNekkid> i thought i did :) 15:51:24 <planetmaker> but it doesn' work? 15:51:31 <DJNekkid> sure it does 15:51:40 <DJNekkid> but i lacked one highrise with snow :) 15:51:47 <planetmaker> ah :-) 15:52:09 <DJNekkid> if you look in ogfx1_base.pcx 15:52:18 <planetmaker> btw, DJNekkid your idea with using the random bits to stretch the introduction date: genious 15:52:27 <DJNekkid> sprite 4444 needs snow :) 15:52:35 <DJNekkid> thanx! :D 15:52:36 <planetmaker> I use it now to stretch introduction of modern level crossings over 15 years :-) 15:52:37 <DJNekkid> i try :D 15:53:28 <planetmaker> and I still ponder whether to do the same with depots in all cases. I guess so... :-) 15:53:54 <planetmaker> and when they're then also used on fences... it'll be awesome :-) 15:53:57 <DJNekkid> new ones are made modern, and the old ones get upgraded slowly? :) 15:54:03 <planetmaker> But there I use them just for random effects without year 15:54:40 <planetmaker> it's a tile-based effect. So every 5 years 1/4 of the tiles is upgraded to modern 15:54:50 <planetmaker> nothing else possible with level crossings 15:54:53 <DJNekkid> yea 15:54:55 <DJNekkid> i know 15:55:00 <DJNekkid> same i do with subway buildings 15:55:06 <planetmaker> :-) 15:55:10 <DJNekkid> well, not exactly the same, but the idea is the same 15:55:23 <DJNekkid> ./principle 15:55:40 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 15:56:41 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:56:50 <DJNekkid> wow, snowy buildings have ALOT of pure white! 15:57:07 <planetmaker> hm... they shouldn't. 15:57:34 <DJNekkid> based on opengfx 0.2.1 15:58:18 <planetmaker> ehm... the sprites actually being used should not have pure white 15:58:24 <planetmaker> sprites NOT used might have 15:58:31 <planetmaker> like in the source dir 15:58:34 <Rubidium> pure whites = bad 15:58:41 <planetmaker> we know :-) 15:59:53 <DJNekkid> then grfcodec makes stuff "pure white" 16:01:21 <Rubidium> file a bug report at Dale 16:01:51 <planetmaker> DJNekkid: dunno... it really depends which sprites you took... 16:01:51 <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 79:f3cc30b5ec5f: Add: Snowy high buildings (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nutracks/repository/revisions/f3cc30b5ec5f 16:03:10 <DJNekkid> sprite 4586 and 87 in ofgxbase 16:03:17 <DJNekkid> for example 16:03:49 <Rubidium> 0.2.1 is an extremely old version 16:03:56 <DJNekkid> hmm 16:04:02 <DJNekkid> actually 16:04:18 <DJNekkid> when in the ....base.pc they are fc:fc:fc 16:04:30 <DJNekkid> but when copied to mspaint and then back its ff:ff:ff 16:05:06 <planetmaker> wrong palette conversion 16:05:49 <DJNekkid> but mspaint should handle them in 32bit or something, while i.mage is in 8bit ttd-plaette 16:07:00 <DJNekkid> wow, irwe is fast :) 16:08:06 <planetmaker> use gimp :-) 16:08:13 <planetmaker> yes, Irwe is very responsive 16:08:23 <DJNekkid> like purno in the old days :) 16:18:45 <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: compile of r103 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/newgrf_makefile/nightlies/ERROR/r103 16:19:31 <Brot6> nml: update from r506 to r514 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/r514 16:20:21 <planetmaker> hm... newgrf_makefile... 16:20:29 <Brot6> nutracks: update from r77 to r79 done (164 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nutracks/nightlies/r79 16:20:55 <Brot6> openmsx: update from r57 to r70 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/openmsx/nightlies/r70 16:21:04 <planetmaker> :-O 164 errors 16:21:44 <Brot6> swedishrails: update from r90 to r98 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/swedishrails/nightlies/r98 16:21:57 <planetmaker> and all whitespace :-) 16:22:45 <Brot6> worldairlinersset: update from r645 to r646 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/worldairlinersset/nightlies/r646 16:22:46 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r557), 32bpp-extra (r36), airportsplus (r50), bros (r12), comic-houses (r70), firs (r1011), fish (r375), heqs (r320), nmts (r16), ogfxplus (r32), opengfx (r461), opensfx (r94), snowlinemod (r12) 16:23:01 <DJNekkid> yes, mostly whitespace i think 16:23:46 <Ammler> planetmaker: newgrf_makefile never worked 16:24:00 <Ammler> or did you fix the "tar-grf" bug?= 16:24:22 <planetmaker> no, I didn't 16:24:30 <planetmaker> I was just reminded to make it work :-) 16:24:36 <Ammler> :-) 16:25:06 <planetmaker> ha, and no errors with SE rails anymore. Varaction2 is implemented :-) 16:25:35 <planetmaker> *random varaction2 16:28:03 <Ammler> I wonder, why the other newgrf projects works, but the example doesn't 16:31:50 <planetmaker> :-) 16:31:55 <planetmaker> No idea yet 16:32:13 <dan123> hi DJNekkid, did you see http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=43838&p=886071#p886071 ? 16:32:13 <planetmaker> I guess I always test with a real newgrf the changes and only port them then there. Maybe broken config file 16:32:14 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - [OTTD]2cc TrainSetThe Trains of the world in2cc.Now:2.0Beta2 (at www.tt-forums.net) 16:32:38 <planetmaker> DJNekkid: All my electric trains from 2cctrainset 2.0beta2 drive on normal rail... 16:33:00 <planetmaker> and e-rail doesn't get activated. When loaded jointly with Swedish rails 16:33:15 <planetmaker> And... I use the default rail labels, RAIL and ELRL 16:33:38 <planetmaker> do you assume a particular slot? 16:35:59 <planetmaker> hm... maybe as I had them default be railtypes 0x0A and 0x0B. Maybe I should change that 16:36:30 <planetmaker> because then it works as intended. Mostly 16:36:53 <planetmaker> Railbus 479 is still available in a non-electric depot 16:40:24 <planetmaker> which is also the case without any railtypes active 16:43:31 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #1044 (Confirmed): railbus 479 can be bought in non-electric depot (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1044 16:45:02 <planetmaker> oh, you updated it already with the excel values, dan123 ? 16:45:09 <dan123> yes 16:45:09 <planetmaker> :-) 16:45:42 <dan123> it's just that registration mail from dev.openttdcoop can't find it's way to my inbox 16:45:50 <dan123> or spam folder :/ 16:45:54 <planetmaker> hm 16:46:04 <planetmaker> what's your user account name? 16:46:09 <dan123> in 2 different mailboxes (different providers) 16:46:11 <dan123> dan123 16:47:33 <planetmaker> I activated dan123 16:47:44 <planetmaker> you should be able to login now 16:47:50 <dan123> thanks :) 16:47:59 <planetmaker> I assume I can delete dan124? ;-) 16:50:43 <dan123> yup 16:50:53 <planetmaker> and I added dan123 as contributor to 2cctrainset 16:51:26 <dan123> nice, I can now commit my changes I presume? 16:51:57 <Ammler> our mail broken? 16:52:20 <Ammler> planetmaker: how did you delete dan124? 16:52:25 <planetmaker> you can do that when I upgrade to developer :-) Before I do that I just wanted to know whether and how familiar you're with mercurial 16:52:29 <planetmaker> Ammler: I didn't... 16:52:37 <Ammler> :-) 16:52:46 <planetmaker> I thought I could, but I can't. It's a locked user now. 16:52:52 <dan123> planetmaker: I'll look around and tell when I'm ready :) 16:53:13 <planetmaker> dan123: please do :-) 16:54:02 <planetmaker> I mean... I'm personally quite fine with giving you access there when you plan to contribute more to the set 16:54:57 <dan123> hmm, currently I've got no idea what to do beyond what I've done so far 16:55:01 <planetmaker> But as it's mainly DJ Nekkid's project he should have the last say. That's the main reason why I didn't activate that :-) 16:55:10 <dan123> ok, no problem 16:57:45 <planetmaker> dan123: your patch file doesn't apply for me... 16:59:00 <dan123> hmm, I created it with r557 16:59:42 <dan123> can you give me a hint what might be wrong with it? 17:00:00 <planetmaker> I don't know. Maybe line endings not unix style... 17:00:04 <planetmaker> but it's just a first guess 17:00:15 <dan123> they are unix style :) 17:00:27 <dan123> unless my debian is playing me some pranks :P 17:00:53 <dan123> i made it with: 17:00:53 <dan123> hg diff > patch.diff 17:01:00 <planetmaker> should work 17:01:33 <planetmaker> does the patch work for you on a clean repo? 17:02:03 <dan123> I'll check 17:05:15 <Ammler> dan123: thanks for notify about the mail issue 17:05:17 <Ammler> fixed :-) 17:05:34 <planetmaker> :-) 17:05:50 <Ammler> does hg diff also output changes int eh excel? 17:06:03 <dan123> I didn't change excel file 17:06:15 <dan123> there are correct weights in there 17:06:54 <planetmaker> Ammler: it doesn't. And actually it doesn't produce output for any binary files. Which sucks majorly 17:07:04 <Ammler> hmm 17:07:07 <planetmaker> I nearly destroyed half an hour of work on graphics 17:07:11 <planetmaker> luckily gimp was still open 17:07:23 <Ammler> I just read about binary changes in the mozilla page: 17:07:48 <planetmaker> having a diff format which would support that... would be awesome for patches which include sprites 17:07:59 <planetmaker> But... they'de be unreadable 17:08:09 <Ammler> Ensure you use the git diff format. Otherwise you will lose any changes to binary files. 17:08:40 <Ammler> ""* 17:08:54 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttd.org/226033 <-- that's what I get with the patch as from the forums, dan123 17:09:08 <planetmaker> hm, does git store binary changes? 17:09:28 <dan123> strange 17:11:46 <dan123> planetmaker: well... it works on clean 2cctrainset sources on my comp 17:11:56 <planetmaker> hm 17:12:48 <planetmaker> your patch tells me that it was made against the same hash as I use 17:13:02 <planetmaker> which should in all cases give a working diff... 17:14:01 <dan123> I've got no idea what might be wrong :/ 17:15:49 <planetmaker> oh well... seems to be some broken download here it seems. 17:16:22 <planetmaker> it does apply now 17:16:53 <planetmaker> and commited 17:16:55 <dan123> :) 17:17:56 <planetmaker> DJNekkid: beware, I commited to 2cctrainset :-) Pull before you continue ;-) 17:18:30 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 558:0372988e7e94: Fix: Weight of several wagons was zero (dan123) (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/0372988e7e94 17:18:47 * dan123 is proud 17:18:52 <planetmaker> :-) 17:19:26 <planetmaker> you can be. You just started your possible carreer as contributor to the OpenTTD community :-) 17:23:18 <planetmaker> dan123: if you're looking for easy things to do first: there are some things which could be done especially in OpenGFX... 17:23:42 <dan123> I've got *no* talent in drawing :) 17:23:46 <planetmaker> Like we have for ages some slightly updated vehicle sprites 17:23:59 <planetmaker> They 'just' need to be added in order to replace the existing ones 17:24:06 <planetmaker> No, I'm NOT talking about drawing :-) 17:24:15 <dan123> hmm, I'll look into it 17:24:39 <dan123> in some days (after my exams) 17:24:58 <planetmaker> It might involve re-arranging the sprites for more convenience, but... that's not pixel art :-) 17:26:58 <dan123> hmm, 2cctrainset doesn't seem to be translated into Polish - that's some work for me :) 17:34:17 <planetmaker> of course :-) 17:34:31 <planetmaker> you can do the same for FIRS 17:43:02 <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 99:819de2b2deb7: Change: Also use a long phase-out period for the old de... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swedishrails/repository/revisions/819de2b2deb7 17:43:55 <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 100:3d583571b338: Change: Use the default railtype IDs for RAIL and ELRL (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swedishrails/repository/revisions/3d583571b338 17:46:13 <Ammler> r100 \o/ 17:46:31 <planetmaker> :-) 17:46:38 <Ammler> :-D 17:46:50 <planetmaker> And I do now have sprites for TTD level crossings and TTRS level crossings 17:47:31 <Ammler> was webman able to run swr with patch? 17:47:59 <planetmaker> wallyweb? 17:48:01 <planetmaker> nope 17:48:05 <planetmaker> same results as you got 17:48:25 <planetmaker> I added to the NML bug report frosch(?) opened the findings 17:48:32 <planetmaker> I think it's somehow with the parameter handling 17:57:54 <Ammler> then we can say, my ttdp installation is fine :-) 17:58:12 <planetmaker> yep 18:07:33 <planetmaker> he... newgrf_makefile failing to bundle_zip is due to sloppy regex :-) 18:07:48 <planetmaker> 'grf' is in the name of the filename stem, too 18:08:04 <planetmaker> and ".grf" != "\.grf" 18:08:30 <Ammler> :-) 18:08:59 <Ammler> but \.grf = .grf :-P 18:09:45 <planetmaker> :-P 18:11:02 <planetmaker> But... so... shall I not tar in bundle_zip and have OpenGFX have all the grf just in its sub-dir, not tar'ed? 18:12:16 <planetmaker> I know you answered it in the bug tracker ;-) 18:17:23 <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 104:af666ea07d30: Fix: Regex for bundle_zip was looking for ?gr... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/newgrf-makefile/repository/revisions/af666ea07d30 18:28:03 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1043: NML fails on TTDPatch (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1043#change-2739 18:30:04 <Ammler> he, mail works again, why did nobody complain about earlier? 18:30:16 <Ammler> do you all have disabled mail notifications? 18:36:16 <Ammler> planetmaker: lock is not delete 18:36:47 <Ammler> I run a script which does automatically delete users which don't activate 19:06:42 <planetmaker> Actually I haven't deactivated them... but I guess I look often enough ;-) 19:06:58 <Ammler> you can't 19:07:05 <Ammler> the only thing is lock 19:09:53 <planetmaker> yes, I can't delete, just lock 19:37:40 <dan123> what encoding should I use in language files? In how-to it says utf-8, but when I use utf-8 I get something like that: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/zrzutekranu-28062010-213448.php 19:37:40 <dan123> Maybe somebody knows what I'm missing? 19:37:41 <Webster> Title: Zrzut ekranu shared on ZimageZ by dan123 (at en.zimagez.com) 19:39:36 <Hirundo> The grf description is shown incorrectly? 19:40:26 <dan123> Polish special characters are interpreted incorrectly 19:40:45 <dan123> not just description, but everywhere I changed it :/ 19:41:27 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #995: Handle errors more gracefully (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/995#change-2740 19:41:54 <planetmaker> dan123: UTF-8 is what is needed 19:42:24 <planetmaker> But in grfs strings have to be indicated as UTF-8... 19:42:41 <dan123> that might be the problem 19:42:53 <planetmaker> that was FIRS or 2cctrainset? 19:43:24 <dan123> 2cctrainset 19:43:34 <planetmaker> hm 19:44:00 <planetmaker> dan123: try to have the first character of your string be the thorn 19:44:38 <dan123> thorn? (sorry to ask question after question) 19:45:29 <planetmaker> Þ 19:46:05 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #995: Handle errors more gracefully (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/995#change-2741 19:47:50 <planetmaker> ^ the thorn sign indicates that the rest is to be interpreted as UTF-8 19:47:54 <planetmaker> in newgrf-strings 19:53:01 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #967 (Closed): Random action2 (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/967#change-2742 19:57:27 <Ammler> native utf-8 support might be something for v8 :-) 19:58:06 <dan123> Þ sign at beginning of a string doesn't change a thing :/ 19:59:50 <planetmaker> Ammler: yeah... possibly a good idea 20:03:51 <Terkhen> dan123: FIRS adds C3 9E before UTF-8 strings (C3 9E "String" 00), but it should be equivalent to using Þ 20:04:18 <planetmaker> it is 20:04:41 <Ammler> hmm, but nml is utf-8, isn't? 20:04:51 <planetmaker> but a translator cannot easily add C3 9E :-) - but easily the thorn 20:04:53 <planetmaker> Ammler: yes 20:04:57 <planetmaker> it adds it automatically 20:05:20 <Ammler> so easier to use nml then convert to utf-8 :-) 20:10:53 *** Seberoth2 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:12:44 <planetmaker> Not necessarily 20:13:01 <planetmaker> It basically means a re-write 20:13:28 *** Seberoth has quit IRC 20:13:39 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 515:0891ef626269: Fix [#1034]: Newline is should be encoded as 0D (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/0891ef626269 20:16:31 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1045 (New): non-matching string codes (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1045 20:18:44 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1034 (Resolved): handling of new lines in strings (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1034#change-2743 20:19:47 *** Seberoth2 has quit IRC 20:20:09 *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:51:33 <DJNekkid> planetmaker: what did your update do? :P 20:51:52 <planetmaker> What the commit message says :-) 20:51:59 <planetmaker> zero weight for some wagons 20:52:07 <planetmaker> or rather non-zero 20:52:20 <DJNekkid> its a known bug :) 20:52:27 <planetmaker> not anymore 20:52:28 <DJNekkid> atleast it is in my head :) 20:52:41 <DJNekkid> excel is updated as well? 20:53:53 <planetmaker> it was said the excel WAS up2date 20:56:46 <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 101:03c0888b35f3: Change: Much more verbose NewGRF description (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swedishrails/repository/revisions/03c0888b35f3 20:59:12 <DJNekkid> looks like the a0wagons.pnfo were the main one that were updated... but i'll transfer thoose numbers to the excel 20:59:33 <DJNekkid> or come up with some myself tomorrow :) 21:34:30 *** ODM has quit IRC 21:52:11 *** Yexo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 21:58:01 <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 102:ab27fbc5fa66: Feature: TTD style level crossings (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swedishrails/repository/revisions/ab27fbc5fa66 22:02:47 <planetmaker> moin yexo :-) 22:02:57 <Yexo> hey planetmaker 22:13:08 <dan123> hey planetmaker, I figured out what I did wrong with those encodings 22:14:09 <dan123> problem is, to make a remotely proper translation I'd need to remake almost all stuff in strings section 22:14:59 <planetmaker> how so? 22:15:24 <dan123> well, order of words would be awkward otherwise 22:15:27 <dan123> for one 22:15:38 <Ammler> simply make all strings utf-8 22:15:43 <dan123> second - I'd need to put utf everywhere 22:16:14 <dan123> I'm more concerned with order of words 22:16:36 <planetmaker> hm... what strings are a problem? 22:16:51 <dan123> for example names of wagons 22:17:18 <planetmaker> it's just one name... one string. How can it be a problem? 22:17:22 <dan123> Polish with it's insane grammar just doesn't fit 22:17:25 <planetmaker> or do I err? 22:17:31 <dan123> let me see 22:18:08 <dan123> there is one for every wagon, that's just mudane work 22:18:40 <dan123> it's more about reworking some nice defs somebody made 22:19:06 <dan123> it looks like some kind of framework for translations 22:19:42 <planetmaker> it is, yes 22:19:57 <dan123> and Polish won't fit :) 22:19:58 <planetmaker> but it might have been a bit ... not too well maintained. 22:20:05 <dan123> yea 22:20:47 <dan123> I'm trying to figure out how to make a decent addition 22:21:15 <planetmaker> the language processing is making heavy use of gcc preprocessing 22:21:21 <dan123> and slowly I come to think of making my laguage file completely independent 22:21:41 <dan123> but that'll make it harder to maintain 22:21:48 <planetmaker> that's not desirable at all 22:21:51 <dan123> and there's my dillema :) 22:22:15 <planetmaker> the strings are so "non-sentence" that I find it hard to believe that a name cannot be translated to Polish... 22:22:46 <planetmaker> again, can you point me at what is a problem? 22:23:27 <dan123> if translation fits into framework -> it'll be awkward and I mean what I write 22:23:38 <Ammler> dan123: make a example 22:24:09 <DJNekkid> the translation framework is supposed to make translations easier, but who knows :) 22:24:36 <dan123> 1 gen intercity coach 22:24:52 <planetmaker> that's one string afaik, right? 22:25:06 <dan123> for every kind of wagon 22:25:15 <dan123> and again one for every mtu 22:25:37 <Rubidium> planetmaker: 1st generation intercity coach would be 4 separate strings in 2ccts 22:25:47 <Rubidium> planetmaker: http://hg.openttdcoop.org/2cctrainset/file/0372988e7e94/sprites/nfo/strings/7F_english.pnfo#l25 22:26:30 <planetmaker> oh... right. My knowledge about the structure there was outdated :-) 22:26:34 <Rubidium> also a free tip: run it through a spellchecker 22:26:42 <planetmaker> And then I see that it's a trouble to translate 22:26:43 <dan123> :D 22:27:01 <planetmaker> one name = one string = one translation should be better 22:27:07 <dan123> yea 22:27:20 <dan123> and that means reworking whole thing 22:27:29 <dan123> not that I can't do that 22:27:51 <dan123> but I don't want to do it and *then* ask if it was a good idea :) 22:28:01 <planetmaker> it is a good idea 22:28:35 <planetmaker> you might want to look at FIRS 22:28:44 <dan123> I do look at it :) 22:28:46 <planetmaker> I think it has a good translation framework 22:29:19 <planetmaker> but... I looked at the translation frameworks ... over a year ago or so 22:29:22 <dan123> you think that adapting it to trainset would be ok? 22:29:23 <planetmaker> and they changed 22:29:27 <dan123> oh 22:29:48 <planetmaker> a framework is independent of how the grf utilizes the strings 22:30:18 <planetmaker> or a good one mostly is :-) 22:30:49 <dan123> I'll try to put something like that in a few days and let you guys know 22:31:37 <planetmaker> no rush :-) 22:32:06 <dan123> a few days == no rush :D 22:32:52 <Rubidium> what planetmaker meant was: "it'll be ready when it's ready" :) 22:33:09 <planetmaker> :-) 22:33:20 <Rubidium> so now the question is: will it be ready when it's ready? 22:33:26 <planetmaker> :-D 22:35:53 <dan123> I hope so 22:36:10 <dan123> I'm debian user deep in my heart 22:36:57 *** Seberoth has quit IRC 22:37:05 <Rubidium> so what's you're favourite Toy Story character? 22:37:17 <dan123> currently squeeze 22:37:26 <dan123> at least on my laptop 22:39:04 * Rubidium favours Sid... although uses Lenny for servers 22:40:25 <Ammler> so you still play with openttd 0.6.2 :-D 22:41:03 <Rubidium> no, I favour 0.3.5 for MP! 22:41:05 <dan123> there is 1.0.1 in squeeze :) 22:41:23 <dan123> and as for sid, I'm too lazy :P 22:41:42 <Ammler> ah, just because we talked about it in the other channel... 22:41:50 <Ammler> (ignore me) 22:43:49 <dan123> DJNekkid: what do you think about rewriting translation framework to make it more flexible? 22:44:28 <DJNekkid> sure! :D 22:44:34 <dan123> :) 22:45:00 <DJNekkid> any parts you like or dislike? 22:45:07 <Yexo> http://paste.openttd.org/226040 this grf crashes ttdpatch, still no idea why 22:46:13 <dan123> DJNekkid: I'd like to make order of words defineable in file corresponding to particular language 22:47:46 <dan123> I don't have any particular complaints besides that 22:47:59 <DJNekkid> if you got a good idea on how to do it, be my guest :) 22:48:15 <DJNekkid> i guess my implemention are quite germanic language oriented (?) 22:48:56 <dan123> now that you said it, yea I can see that :) 22:49:39 <DJNekkid> all i know is norwegian and engish, and it fits both :) 22:50:24 <DJNekkid> but if some language is like ... "Wagon Hopper Generation 3" there are problems :) 22:51:01 <dan123> in Polish "wagon hopper 3 gen" 22:51:32 <planetmaker> [00:45] <Yexo> http://paste.openttd.org/226040 this grf crashes ttdpatch, still no idea why <-- hm, it doesn't look particularily wrong to me 22:51:47 <planetmaker> Though the strings look funnily at their start 22:51:49 <Yexo> got an even simpler case now 22:51:59 <Yexo> that is the thorn represented in ascii 22:52:08 <planetmaker> ah, ok 22:54:25 <planetmaker> dan123: DJNekkid in general one string = one translation avoids such mistakes. So un-splitting the wagon names with their generation would solve most, though maybe not all problems there 22:54:34 <planetmaker> And it's not like it's really avoiding much duplication 22:55:59 <planetmaker> the only other solution seems to be then to apply a much more complicated string system which allows for re-sorting the sub-strings by the translators such as OpenTTD's WT3 allows. 22:56:24 <dan123> I was thinking about smth like that 22:57:22 <Yexo> planetmaker: that is not that complicated if the language file definitions get defined with a few parameters (for example the speed is a parameter) 22:57:55 <planetmaker> Yexo: yes, but re-writing that only with the gcc pre-processor is.. at least a pain 22:58:07 <Yexo> true 22:58:13 <planetmaker> And I wouldn't find the motivation to re-invent that again now that we have NML ;-) 22:58:31 <Yexo> anyway, I can't solve swedishrails on ttdpatch until I know what is wrong with that little grf I posted above 22:58:38 <Yexo> already created a topic in ttdpatch problems 22:58:44 <planetmaker> I just saw that 22:59:03 <planetmaker> Well... seems like my last commit was void then ;-) 22:59:14 <planetmaker> Still... how can I query other newgrf presence? 22:59:16 <Yexo> renum doesn't complain, grfcodec doesn't complain, it looks like it's according to the spec 22:59:22 <Yexo> you can't currently 22:59:27 <planetmaker> oh, ok 22:59:38 <planetmaker> I can't query var 0x88 either 22:59:51 <Yexo> hmm? 22:59:56 <Yexo> what is var 0x88? 23:00:00 <DJNekkid> dan123: what about the carriage capacity? 23:00:06 <DJNekkid> is that ok in polish? 23:00:08 <planetmaker> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action7 23:00:13 <planetmaker> other GRFIDs 23:01:06 <dan123> DJNekkid: mostly okay 23:01:24 <dan123> and not really worth changing 23:01:34 <Yexo> planetmaker: I know the part about other GRFIDs, is "<planetmaker> I can't query var 0x88 either" related? 23:01:58 <planetmaker> uhm... yes :-) 23:02:21 <Yexo> ah, I sse :) 23:02:31 <Yexo> misread the table the first time 23:03:20 <Yexo> do you need all 4 operators? 23:03:24 <planetmaker> I messed around with my diffs and I don't have the NML code with that what I had before... 23:03:40 <planetmaker> well, I do want to know whether a grf will be active 23:03:46 <Yexo> is active, is not active, is or will be active, is not and will not be active 23:03:48 <dan123> DJNekkid: it's a problem not resolved in a lot of "pro" translations 23:04:19 <Yexo> I'm tempted to only expose the last 2 to nml 23:04:31 <dan123> ending of "passengers" is different for different numbers of them 23:05:01 <planetmaker> I never quite understood the difference between those four though I understand it can make a difference for load order. 23:05:10 <planetmaker> especially when modifying another newgrf 23:05:24 <planetmaker> or supplying information for a newgrf to be loaded 23:05:46 <Yexo> it's important when deciding which grf to disable 23:05:56 <Yexo> you can't disable another grf if it's already active 23:06:11 <planetmaker> disabling other grfs is bad anyway 23:06:22 <Yexo> and ttdpatch is supposed to crash if you try to disable a grf that is not in the list (ie you need to check for "will be active") 23:06:38 <planetmaker> lol? "supposed to crash"? 23:06:40 <Yexo> "supposed to" as in "the wiki says ttdpatch will" 23:07:05 <Yexo> wrong translation to english :p 23:07:31 <planetmaker> :-) 23:08:25 <DJNekkid> dan123: different endings on if they have a different number in the end? (i.e. 0-1-2....9) 23:08:27 <Yexo> good night 23:08:39 *** Yexo has quit IRC 23:09:04 <planetmaker> that was quick... 23:09:28 <dan123> DJNekkid: not for all, but for some and not really coherent among different words 23:10:42 <dan123> as I told Polish grammar is insane 23:11:55 <dan123> I'm proud to say that you have 17 different forms of word "two" for example 23:12:06 <dan123> all more or less used in spoken language :) 23:15:23 <dan123> about flexible word order again, I think it could be done without to much of a work using macros 23:20:12 <planetmaker> whatever :-) 23:20:37 <planetmaker> Just mind that you want to support more than two languages :-) 23:21:09 <DJNekkid> but changeing that part is near impossible 23:21:25 <dan123> planetmaker: I know 23:21:52 <planetmaker> anyway. also good night from here 23:22:18 <dan123> well, I think I'm gonna go to sleep too ;) 23:22:25 <DJNekkid> there is one way tho 23:22:31 <DJNekkid> but it takes some work 23:22:47 <DJNekkid> #define WORD_PAX_0 ... 9 23:22:55 <dan123> DJNekkid: if you are talking about endings then I did't really even think about it seriously 23:24:13 <DJNekkid> and then all of the string-bits needs to have WORD_PAX_0 (or whatever) depending on what the number ends with 23:24:23 <DJNekkid> but that probably needs some big changes 23:24:45 <DJNekkid> and prone to have a handfull of errors 23:24:48 <dan123> yea, just I call it goodnight for today :) 23:24:51 <DJNekkid> unless its made automaticly 23:25:18 <dan123> maybe I'll think about it after I finish first part :) 23:25:35 *** dan123 has quit IRC