Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 5th July 2010:
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06:25:46  <planetmaker> good morning
07:34:48  <Ammler> morning
07:34:58  <Ammler> did you reboot our server?
07:35:31  <Ammler> planetmaker: ^
07:37:17  <Ammler> hmm, no, then it was a network issue
07:40:56  <planetmaker> I didn't. Indeed :-)
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09:07:35  <planetmaker> hm... what was this, Ammler ?
09:07:49  <Ammler> update of znc
09:08:09  <planetmaker> ah
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10:10:15  <PeterT> @irc
10:10:19  <PeterT> @wiki irc
10:10:21  <Webster> IRC - #openttdcoop Wiki -
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11:38:45  <Ammler> oh, the redmine people found out, that I am related to openttd :-)
11:39:02  <Ammler> someone plays it on ipad :-)
11:40:43  <FooBar> so much for that secret ;)
11:41:41  <Ammler> yeah, freenode has cloak but if you reconnect, it shows the real host and changes it afterwards
11:42:59  <Ammler> [11:12] <thegcat> Ammler: it's in the appstore alright, by one of the lead devs afaik <-- Rubidium, are you meant here?
11:43:56  <Rubidium> do I have a Mac?
11:44:39  <Ammler> :-D, well "lead devs"
11:45:18  <Rubidium> that's just a blatant lie
11:46:51  <Ammler> yeah, I made it "right" :-)
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14:28:20  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1025:52181741dc3f: Feature #1060: Fishing Grounds (foobar) @
14:28:20  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1060 (Closed): Restore Fishing Grounds industry (foobar) @
14:29:07  <FooBar> There's one minor renum warning that I don't understand though, but it works regardless of it
14:30:00  <Ammler> what renum do you use?
14:30:14  <Ammler> there are some useful patches
14:32:01  <Ammler> or just check, if the nightly compiler also does have those warning
14:33:49  <planetmaker>
14:33:53  <planetmaker> same with grfcodec
14:34:17  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1076 (New): Minor renum warning on i_fishinggrounds.pnfo (foobar) @
14:34:21  <Ammler> are the patches applied there?
14:34:27  <FooBar> recent renum from openttd website
14:34:35  <FooBar> I believe downloaded yesterday or something
14:34:48  <planetmaker> from that link?
14:34:52  <Ammler> I assume, those are the official svn nightlies
14:34:54  <FooBar> yes, that's the link
14:34:56  <planetmaker> then you'll be fine
14:35:14  <Ammler> ok :-/
14:35:31  <planetmaker> they're the svn nightlies, yes
14:36:06  <FooBar> I made an issue about it, so we can look at it again if the problem also occurs on other computers
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14:37:28  <planetmaker> FooBar, you don't make use of the correct defines
14:37:38  <FooBar> I don't?
14:37:46  <planetmaker> /!!Invalid character: "T".
14:37:46  <planetmaker> /    0 * 0	 04 0A 84 01 94 DC C3 9E TEXT_IND_FISHINGGROUNDS 00
14:37:55  <planetmaker> ^  and renum / grfcodec will complain
14:38:15  <planetmaker> /!!Invalid character: "T".
14:38:15  <planetmaker> /    0 * 0	 04 0A 84 01 EB DC C3 9E TEXT_STA_FISHINGGROUNDS 00
14:38:17  <planetmaker> ^ same there
14:38:18  <FooBar> yes I know; those strings don't exist in that particular language
14:38:33  <FooBar> I consider that a bug in the translation system :P
14:39:08  <FooBar> The 7F strings are there, so it will be no problem in the final grf
14:39:56  <planetmaker> you should still try to get rid of those errors
14:40:02  <planetmaker> quite ugly IMHO
14:40:14  <planetmaker> but I agree, it looks then like a rather principle problem
14:40:43  <FooBar> easy enough, but annoying, because I have to put placeholder strings in the spanish language
14:40:53  <welshdragon> poop
14:41:08  <welshdragon> I just tried enabling NuTracks in IS2.1.1
14:41:14  <welshdragon> and it failed :(
14:41:59  <FooBar> for one language that is fine, but imagine the same happeling with 20 languages, so I rather fix that differently
14:42:14  <Ammler> there is no IS2.1.1
14:42:21  <Ammler> maybe you meant IS2 2.1.1
14:42:35  <welshdragon> yeah, that's what I meant
14:42:45  <Ammler> that is pre openttd 1.0
14:42:53  <welshdragon> yep
14:42:58  <Ammler> which doesn't support railtype
14:43:00  <planetmaker> FooBar, I fully agree
14:43:30  <FooBar> any ideas? because you're more into this stuff than I am
14:43:52  <planetmaker> Honestly, I didn't look at translations for LOOONG time
14:44:09  <FooBar> ok, but I mean the define and compile stuff in general
14:44:25  <planetmaker> one way would be to include after all translated strings a long chain of
14:44:38  <planetmaker> #ifndef STR_BLA_BLUB
14:45:02  <planetmaker> #define STR_BLA_BLUB_EN
14:45:04  <planetmaker> #endif
14:45:12  <planetmaker> but... that's difficult to implement
14:46:08  <FooBar> maybe not. The 7F translation could be in that format, and called as the very first language and after each other language
14:46:18  <planetmaker> or a complete re-write and totally separate language pre-processing
14:46:47  <planetmaker> FooBar, that gives you zillions of warnings of the type "redefining blub blah"
14:46:57  <Ammler> you might also use the same format as nml already uses?
14:47:14  <planetmaker> yes...
14:47:33  <planetmaker> But it means writing a whole new parser
14:47:58  <Ammler> then converting to nml might be easier :-)
14:48:13  <FooBar> converting FIRS to NML is never easy, it's way too big already
14:48:36  <FooBar> That might be something for FIRS2
14:48:38  <planetmaker> That's not easy
14:48:48  <planetmaker> It's a re-write in parts
14:49:17  <planetmaker> During breakfast I started with fish... I need to learn some syntax there, but I think it already works all what I need
14:49:45  <planetmaker> Once one knows that syntax, though, the conversion is not really difficult, FooBar
14:49:47  <Ammler> can't you make some helper scripts to at least make some steps easier?
14:49:52  <planetmaker> You can translate many things 1:1
14:50:03  <FooBar> maybe not difficult, but a lot of work though
14:50:07  <planetmaker> yes
14:50:23  <planetmaker> But it might pay off really. But I do advise against doing so before 1.0
14:50:30  <Ammler> FooBar: afaik FIRS is already something v3 or so
14:50:34  <planetmaker> Or we'll get a mb / DNF situation here
14:50:57  <Ammler> at least what the GRFID tells :-)
14:51:02  <FooBar> and we don't want that :P
14:51:39  <planetmaker> Ammler, grfID and version number are not really related
14:51:48  <planetmaker> nor should they
14:51:55  <planetmaker> given how the grfIDs work
14:52:16  <Ammler> IMO, they should, as it would make it obvious, which versions are compatible
14:52:31  <Ammler> now you need to read changelog or whatever
14:53:02  <planetmaker> you don't need to care about compatibility. That's what the grfID is for
14:53:24  <Ammler> I would hate how FIRS is doing it right now, if I would still need to maintain the GRFPACK ;-)
14:53:25  <planetmaker> And changing the grfID during development to not annoy both devs and testers, is a good idea. A very good one
14:53:45  <planetmaker> Ammler, not at all. ISR does it bad
14:53:55  <planetmaker> FIRS just requires reading the changelog
14:54:05  <planetmaker> and release messages
14:54:08  <planetmaker> alternatively
14:54:24  <Ammler> changing ID should also change filename
14:54:46  <Ammler> but that doesn't matter that much anymore...
14:54:57  <planetmaker> they come in tars
14:55:12  <planetmaker> usually :-)
14:55:17  <Ammler> the bananars tars aren't manageable at all
14:56:00  <Ammler> they change path also when compatible
14:56:52  <Ammler> but again, since we don't configure newgrfs on the server anymore, it doesn't matter that much
14:57:20  <planetmaker> I'm more bothered that I cannot download my release versions of SE rails
14:57:45  <planetmaker> If I do, all my debug games will load preferentially those - and then I cannot test changes by a simple newgrf refresh
14:58:34  <planetmaker> as such I always delete my release versions in my newgrf folder for SE rails and re-download when I join a server which has them
14:58:49  <Ammler> :-(
14:58:57  <Ammler> you don't need
14:59:12  <planetmaker> I could move. yes
14:59:18  <Ammler> you need delete the bananas grf maybe)
14:59:26  <planetmaker> yes. That's what I do
14:59:51  <Ammler> you could setup a "chrooted" openttd
15:00:12  <Ammler> with disabled personal-dir
15:00:30  <planetmaker> sounds like too much work for too much trouble to do that for every openttd version
15:00:44  <Ammler> you need to configure once
15:00:47  <planetmaker> I test of course with trunk most often. And I play from there, too
15:00:57  <planetmaker> Having to re-compile it twice... I don't fancy it
15:01:04  <Ammler> ?
15:01:17  <planetmaker> Only because I now suddently want to use that not as test trunk but to join servers.
15:01:22  <planetmaker> or play games
15:01:26  <Ammler> I mean, you need to configure once and then you can update and make
15:01:30  <planetmaker> or create maps
15:01:48  <planetmaker> Ammler, yes. But either I have there all usual newgrfs available or not
15:01:53  <planetmaker> I use that install for both
15:02:00  <Ammler> and you can have 2 openttd builds parallel, you should know :-P
15:02:06  <planetmaker> I do.
15:02:28  <planetmaker> But I see little point to compile identical versions only if I want to not test my newgrf or vice versa
15:02:43  <planetmaker> Every compile also costs me then like 5 minutes or so
15:03:33  <Ammler> I see no point to compile a custom build for playing
15:04:01  <planetmaker> I do see a point to compile a custom build for just throwing together a map for our servers
15:04:13  <planetmaker> That'd definitely stop me creating the map
15:04:30  <Ammler> ok, why not using the same build?
15:04:45  <planetmaker> remember: I don't have the ottdcoop and bananas grf available there?
15:04:55  <planetmaker> That was your whole proposal for two builds...
15:05:05  <Ammler> you have a openttdcoop build and newgrf dev build
15:05:27  <Ammler> newgrf dev build is chrooted
15:05:30  <planetmaker> I mostly have one build: trunk at a random revision
15:05:42  <Ammler> ok, I have around 20 here :-)
15:05:46  <Ammler> and I am not a dev :-P
15:06:08  <planetmaker> I do have plenty, too. But that's the one I use usually.
15:06:48  <planetmaker> And compiling for the sake of "I don't want another version of this newgrf" is IMHO definitely the wrong approach
15:06:59  <planetmaker> Or I'll have to make a special build for every savegame
15:07:03  <Ammler> you don't get me :-)
15:07:14  <planetmaker> I could say the same ;-)
15:07:36  <planetmaker> For testing of SE rails I do need other newgrfs, too
15:08:05  <planetmaker> So... And now assume I test nutracks. Now... I want to test it against release se rails. What now? Another chroot for nutracks dev?
15:14:14  <Ammler> hmm, you could make a bug report about newgrf gui so it does disable filtering newgrfs
15:14:24  <Ammler> at least as option
15:14:38  <Ammler> the newgrf gui patch from tt-forums supported that
15:14:57  <planetmaker> what filtering?
15:15:15  <Ammler> it does list only one random grf
15:15:24  <Ammler> so the rest is filtered, isn't?
15:15:34  <planetmaker> The problem only is, if I load an existing savegame. And then it randomly picks an existing grf with the same grfID - as the original MD5 of course isn't available anymore
15:16:03  <planetmaker> Hm, is it? No. I have e.g. for selection both SE houses available when starting something new
15:16:16  <planetmaker> as I do a number of 2cctrainsets
15:16:34  <Ammler> if you need old bananas grfs, you could use
15:17:10  <Ammler> are you sure?
15:17:21  <Ammler> then I don't see your initial issue
15:17:32  <Ammler> I thought, there is only one version per GRFID available
15:18:20  <planetmaker> My problem is this: I have swedishrails-0.5.0 (in content_download/data) and swedishrails-nightly (in data) present
15:18:37  <Ammler> yes
15:18:38  <planetmaker> Now I load tracks_test.sav
15:19:01  <planetmaker> which was played with swedishrails-nightly (old version, different MD5)
15:19:14  <planetmaker> then swedishrails-0.5.0 will be used as compatible.
15:19:20  <planetmaker> I want/need my nightly though
15:19:33  <Ammler> then you remove the grf and readd the nightly
15:19:37  <planetmaker> and for me there's no means ot influence that
15:19:40  <planetmaker> Ammler, exactly
15:19:45  <planetmaker> I delete the bananas grf
15:19:49  <Ammler> no
15:19:51  <Ammler> just from the list
15:20:00  <planetmaker> Ammler, there's no list
15:20:23  <planetmaker> The compatible things are automatically chosen. That's it.
15:20:25  <Ammler> newgrf gui?
15:20:50  <Ammler> you said, it does list all available versions, which I thought, isn't the case :-P
15:20:55  <planetmaker> yes, I can, of course completely remove the grf and re-add the new one
15:21:05  <planetmaker> Ammler, only when I start a NEW game
15:21:25  <planetmaker> When I load an EXISTING game, a random, compatible version is chosen
15:21:37  <Ammler> yes, but then you change the newgrf settings :-)
15:21:46  <planetmaker> ?
15:22:54  <Ammler> you remove ser from the activated list
15:23:06  <planetmaker> yes. That of course works.
15:23:11  <Ammler> then you have all sers which you can now chose the version you need
15:23:23  <Ammler> so what the hell is your issue?
15:23:40  <planetmaker> but that's much more clicks than loading the game, preferrably even via command line -g savegame.sav
15:24:40  <planetmaker> and that I didn't remove the grf ;-)
15:24:42  <Ammler> but what you need wouldn't even work with versioned newgrfs
15:24:53  <planetmaker> why not?
15:25:04  <Ammler> because you like to load an older version
15:25:12  <Ammler> release instead nightly
15:25:14  <planetmaker> no. I like to load the newest
15:25:19  <planetmaker> vice versa
15:25:35  <Ammler> well, that could be fixed with simply timestamp sorting then
15:25:38  <Ammler> already now
15:26:08  <Ammler> or sorting filename
15:30:00  <Ammler> he, sorting filename would be perfect
15:30:15  <Ammler> as content_download < data
15:30:44  <Ammler> or 0.3.0 < r345
15:30:48  <planetmaker> that's correct for my case. But wrong generally in 50%
15:31:00  <Ammler> tell me 1 example
15:31:39  <planetmaker> release version in content_download, newer than development version
15:31:47  <planetmaker> in data
15:31:59  <Ammler> hehe, and how is that possible :-P
15:32:04  <planetmaker> easily
15:32:33  <planetmaker> andy releases heqs 0.6.1 and I last installed it locally around 0.5.x nightly equivalent
15:33:15  <Ammler> but that isn't tip anymore
15:33:23  <Ammler> why would you prefer that old version?
15:33:26  <FooBar> I think I fixed the translation problem, with help of #ifndef
15:33:57  <planetmaker> Ammler, you asked where it would fail. It fails for every newgrf where I don't build the nightlies regularily
15:34:34  <Ammler> hmm, then only file timestamp is working?
15:34:44  <Ammler> which is os dependend
15:35:17  <Ammler> but as the current thing is randomly, we could at least do something which works on unix
15:35:55  <planetmaker> all a hack :-)
15:36:05  <planetmaker> Not worth the trouble unless we get minor grf versions
15:36:31  <Ammler> you would still need support for older grfs
15:41:47  <planetmaker> <PeterT> OwenS is a member?
15:41:47  <planetmaker> <OwenS> PeterT: No
15:41:47  <planetmaker> <PeterT> I didn't think so.<-- :-P prove PeterT wrong? ;-)
15:42:12  <PeterT> planetmaker: was that meant for .pro?
15:42:46  <PeterT> xD
16:00:13  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1026:2cd0350ab800: Feature #317: Finish translation syst... (foobar) @
16:00:13  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #317 (Closed): translation system (foobar) @
16:01:22  <FooBar> how exactly do I register my nickname?
16:01:35  <FooBar> As it appears that I've now lost my underscore for some reason :)
16:03:56  <FooBar> never mind, I must learn to google first ;)
16:04:24  <Ammler> ask at #oftc for drop
16:04:29  <FooBar> anyways, it says that it's already registered. I do wonder why I can be using it though
16:04:40  <Ammler> then register with /msg nickserv register
16:05:01  <Ammler> the nick is 4 year unused, so it will be dropped
16:05:23  <FooBar> ok, I'll try
16:06:12  <Ammler> shall I setup the bouncer too?
16:06:27  <Ammler> (again) :-P
16:07:33  <FooBar> no thanks, I'm good. Costs me too much time to read back stuff
16:07:58  <FooBar> just send me and email if you need me, or a PM, or and issue
16:08:04  <FooBar> options plenty
16:09:20  <FooBar> I do wonder how it's possible that I can use FooBar all of a sudden...
16:09:33  <Ammler> [18:05] <Ammler> the nick is 4 year unused, so it will be dropped
16:09:38  <FooBar> while that wasn't possible previously :S
16:09:50  <Ammler> someone else was using it like you
16:09:56  <Ammler> not identified
16:10:46  <FooBar> ah, that explains
16:10:52  <FooBar> I've registered it now :)
16:11:20  <Ammler> you might enable enforce
16:12:03  <FooBar> ok, after dinner ;)
16:12:08  <FooBar> bye for now!
16:18:39  <Brot6> airportsplus: update from r51 to r52 done -
16:19:10  <Brot6> firs: compile of r1026 failed -
16:19:42  <Brot6> nutracks: update from r81 to r82 done (164 errors) -
16:20:44  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r463 to r464 done -
16:21:06  <Brot6> openmsx: update from r79 to r80 done -
16:22:17  <Brot6> opensfx: update from r94 to r96 done -
16:22:40  <Brot6> snowlinemod: update from r14 to r15 done -
16:22:43  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r562), 32bpp-extra (r36), bros (r12), comic-houses (r70), fish (r386), heqs (r346), newgrf_makefile (r118), nml (r529), nmts (r16), ogfxplus (r33), swedishrails (r135), worldairlinersset (r648)
16:51:56  <PeterT> @logs
16:51:56  <Webster> Logs:
16:53:41  <Ammler> PeterT: make a fav
16:53:55  <PeterT> I have enough bookmarks, but thanks for offering :p
16:55:34  <planetmaker> as often as you query it it would make sense
16:55:53  <planetmaker> probably it will be visited more often than many of your other bookmarks
16:56:27  <planetmaker> though my FF knows it already when I type 'kenji' in the URL bar
16:56:31  <Ammler> it is the reason, why #openttd disabled it
16:58:00  <FooBar> Ammler and/or planetmaker: firs build failed due to "No rule to make target `sprites/nfo/lang/_base.pnfo". This is a new file I added.
16:58:10  <FooBar> Is it because of the understore that it fails?
16:58:21  <FooBar> (it's just there to keep the file on top in the dir listing)
16:58:39  <Ammler> FooBar: no need to highlight me for Makefile issues :-)
16:58:43  <Ammler> I have no clue about
16:58:47  <FooBar> ok cool
16:58:57  <Ammler> but pm has :-P
16:59:12  <FooBar> that I knew, I was unsure about you, but know I know :)
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16:59:56  <FooBar> anyways, it built here just fine before I committed the change
17:00:08  <planetmaker> FooBar: the file sprites/nfo/lang/_base.pnfo simple does not exist
17:00:14  <planetmaker> you didn't add it to the repo
17:00:21  <FooBar> I didn't?
17:00:25  <planetmaker> no
17:00:26  <Ammler> hg add ...
17:00:36  <FooBar> I thought I added the file :S
17:00:45  <Ammler> hg st should tell you
17:00:47  <planetmaker> you added sprites/nfo/lang/base.pnfo
17:00:54  <planetmaker> and sprites/nfo/lang/00_base.pnfo
17:01:02  <planetmaker> (or maybe they were there already, dunno)
17:01:15  <FooBar> crap...
17:01:57  <FooBar> I named it 00_base at first, but then renamed it, because it has nothting to do with langID 00 in particular
17:02:05  <FooBar> it seems it renamed it back :S
17:02:46  <planetmaker> I don't particularily like it starting with _
17:02:52  <planetmaker> it's not like it's a special file
17:03:14  <planetmaker> and sorting... is something for your file browser ;-)
17:03:21  <Rubidium> use OO :)
17:03:29  <planetmaker> sane names is more important
17:03:33  <Rubidium> for extra added confusion
17:03:49  <planetmaker> nah.
17:03:55  <planetmaker> it should start with -
17:04:08  <planetmaker> maybe -rf is a good name ;-)
17:04:12  <Rubidium> or... for the fun of it: with \
17:04:15  <planetmaker> I'd be scared to delete that file
17:04:39  <FooBar> ok, I rename it then. I have to commit something anyways to fix it...
17:05:08  <planetmaker> FooBar: use hg's rename funktionality instead of manual copy, add and remove
17:05:17  <FooBar> I did ;)
17:05:20  <planetmaker> ok :-)
17:05:35  <FooBar> I remembered that from last time I messed with file names
17:05:50  <Rubidium> funktionality: German or KDE user?
17:06:07  <FooBar> last one
17:06:32  <planetmaker> :-)
17:06:47  <planetmaker> maybe both?
17:07:00  <FooBar> I don't know, you're the German guy here ;)
17:07:43  <Rubidium> it's fun to teach him some "German" spelling (occasionally)
17:08:08  <planetmaker> hu?
17:08:15  <Rubidium> planetmaker: apartheid :)
17:08:32  <planetmaker> ah :-) yeah
17:09:11  <FooBar> gesundheit
17:09:40  <FooBar> Ammler: is it "Fix r1026" or "Fix (r1026)? Or either way?
17:10:48  <Ammler> 2nd
17:10:53  <FooBar> ok, thanks!
17:11:08  <FooBar> I didn't want to run the risk of not having the revision linked :P
17:12:52  <FooBar> damn...clicked too fast :( now it's wrong after all...
17:12:54  <FooBar> oh well
17:13:19  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1027:884818b923ae: Fix r1026: clean up some mess I made. (foobar) @
17:13:48  <planetmaker> the 'beauty' of gui interfaces ;-)
17:15:21  <FooBar> would've happend otherwise as well in this case I think...
17:16:10  <FooBar> anyhow, is it possible to manually run FIRS nightly compile again? I wonder if that last sprite warning I have here also comes up there...
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17:17:54  <planetmaker> quak!
17:18:12  <planetmaker> FooBar: try it locally :-)
17:18:39  <FooBar> well, locally I have that particular error I can't get my head around why it exists
17:18:39  <frosch123> quak :)
17:18:52  <planetmaker> (though yes, it's possible. But the point of a nightly is not to check every commit ;-) )
17:19:07  <planetmaker> FooBar: you shouldn't have uncommited files in that dir
17:19:17  <FooBar> ok, then you try it locally ;)
17:19:18  <planetmaker> if you do, it might work for that reason and fail elsewhere
17:19:47  <planetmaker> seems to work
17:19:50  <FooBar> everything I did today is committed
17:19:57  <FooBar> ok, no renum error?
17:20:09  <planetmaker> A portion of sprite 3250 could not be processed.
17:20:15  <FooBar> yes, that one
17:20:20  <planetmaker> so, yes, there's at least grfcodec errors
17:20:36  <FooBar> I better look into that again then
17:20:41  <FooBar> thanks for checking though
17:20:44  <planetmaker> np
17:20:57  <planetmaker> also quicker than to trigger the CF
17:24:22  <Brot6> test: compile of 0.1.1 failed -
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18:44:26  <andythenorth> hi hi
18:44:36  <Brot6> Redmine - Revision 3827: Allow js formatted responses. (edavis10) @
18:45:57  <FooBar> hi Andy!
18:46:35  <FooBar> we have fishing grounds now, although renum gives me some weird error I can't get my head around
18:48:15  <frosch123> maybe the code is fishy
18:49:27  <FooBar> I checked it three times and don't understand why it could be wrong. It's basically copied from some other industry too...
18:51:14  <FooBar> If you want to take a look:
18:51:16  <FooBar> Line 93 is basically the culprit, renum gives me the error "a portion of sprite could not be processed", but no clue what portion...
18:52:46  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1077 (New): internal error, assertion of byte value (planetmaker) @
18:58:19  <andythenorth> FooBar: I'm stumped initially
18:58:28  <andythenorth> I'll look more in a minute - eating dinner
18:58:54  <FooBar> enjoy!
19:00:01  <frosch123> interestingly renum does not show an error when running it directly on firs.nfo
19:00:33  <Hirundo> planetmaker: I will look into the assert
19:01:19  <planetmaker> Hirundo: it's not unlikely that I feed invalid values
19:01:40  <planetmaker> I'm not 100% sure my patch is actually 100% valid NML
19:02:03  <andythenorth> I have the renum error, but no renum comments in the code
19:02:05  <Hirundo> In any case it shouldn't crash, but provide a nice error message
19:02:22  <andythenorth> so what could be wrong with this: 3250 * 7	 03 09 01 CC 00 \wxA0 //-1 * 0 03 09 <n-ids> <id> 00 <def-cid>
19:03:12  <planetmaker> yep, I know :-) Otherwise I'd have asked what I do wrong ;-)
19:03:23  <planetmaker> thanks for looking at it
19:03:43  <Hirundo> isn't <id> a word?
19:04:01  <planetmaker> andythenorth: FooBar my gut feeling tells me that it is not an issue with the sprite itself
19:04:14  <planetmaker> but some random invalid character in the vicinity in the original source code
19:04:30  <frosch123> also thinks so :I)
19:04:34  <FooBar> Hirundo: id is indeed a word, hence the \wx
19:05:23  <planetmaker> and vicinity can be totally different file, given template usage and so on :-)
19:05:30  <planetmaker> it's anyway at the boundary of industries
19:07:53  <andythenorth> FooBar: the issue isn't 3250 (the action 3) it's something in 321
19:07:57  <andythenorth> 3251
19:08:34  <FooBar> is it?
19:09:02  <Hirundo> planetmaker: how do I make 'make' find 'nml2nfo' ?
19:09:25  <frosch123> yup, deleting 3251 makes it silent
19:09:38  <andythenorth> that's going to be fun :P
19:09:46  <andythenorth> 3251 is a big sprite
19:10:10  <FooBar> I know 3251 is big, I made it big ;)
19:10:33  <FooBar> I'll try the method of deduction on that to find out what's wrong...
19:11:45  * FooBar starts by removing the layout defenition
19:12:27  * andythenorth removes everything else
19:12:45  <andythenorth> problem is  in the first two properties somewhere
19:12:47  <FooBar> good call, the layout wasn't the problem :P
19:13:05  <Yexo> planetmaker: you should just write "cargo_type: IORE;"
19:13:12  <Yexo> all those defines are comletely unneeded
19:13:18  <planetmaker> :-)
19:13:28  <Yexo> (and your cargo table now uses spaces, while the rest of that file uses tabs to indent)
19:13:46  <andythenorth> FooBar: I was wrong.  Problem is not in first two properties :P
19:13:52  <FooBar> :)
19:14:15  <FooBar> Yexo: tab or space indent is completely random in firs source ;)
19:14:36  <Yexo> planetmaker: you can use every cargo that you've defined in the cargotable, when used it'll get replaced by the index in the table
19:14:45  <FooBar> just make sure your tab is equal to 4 spaces and you're good
19:14:56  <Hirundo> cargo_type should be an index, not a bit
19:15:10  <planetmaker> Yexo: that's good and interesting news :-)
19:15:26  <planetmaker> Hirundo: yeah... I have have a documentation patch on that
19:15:31  <planetmaker> not yet finished though
19:15:40  <andythenorth> FooBar: color
19:15:42  <andythenorth> map
19:15:46  <andythenorth> prop 19
19:16:10  <planetmaker> hm... cargo_type is a label in NML, yes?
19:16:53  <Yexo> cargo_type is defined in actions/
19:16:55  <planetmaker> [21:14]	<FooBar>	just make sure your tab is equal to 4 spaces and you're good <-- it still makes a difference
19:17:07  <FooBar> yes, but not visible
19:17:35  <FooBar> andythenorth: did I by any chance forget to define the colour?
19:17:37  <planetmaker> Yexo: yes, it is. And it's according and IIRC to the newgrf specs a climate-dependent cargo type from whatever-row of a table
19:17:43  <andythenorth> FooBar: probably
19:17:47  <frosch123> CLR_FISHINGGROUNDS is undefined :)
19:18:00  <frosch123> it is still in the preprocessed nfo
19:18:15  <andythenorth> are we going to have a tab / space indent war :o
19:18:20  <FooBar> ok, thanks guys
19:18:52  <FooBar> no thanks to renum though, useless message :S
19:19:18  <FooBar> the tab/space war is easily solved, just search and replace in all files
19:19:24  <planetmaker> FooBar: you should remember the error message and the cause :-)
19:19:29  <planetmaker> It will happen again ;-)
19:19:33  <FooBar> probably
19:19:53  <andythenorth> FooBar: you should provide a bug report or patch :)
19:20:38  <FooBar> actually I should...
19:21:15  <FooBar> I wonder where DaleStan is though, haven't seen him around recently.
19:21:41  <frosch123> he left on early march
19:22:21  <FooBar> and I wonder where the renum thread is. Better do a search...
19:22:36  <frosch123>
19:22:38  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - NFORenum v3.4.6 released (NFO renumberer and linter) (at
19:22:46  <frosch123> just had it at hand :)
19:22:48  <planetmaker> FooBar: don't hold your breath for any commits, though
19:23:02  <FooBar> Don't worry, I'm not ;)
19:23:30  <planetmaker> yexo's fatal bug report for ttdpatch is unanswered for a whole week now
19:23:48  <frosch123> last post on ides of March :p
19:23:50  <planetmaker> I told Irwe to stop bothering with TTDP sprites
19:23:59  <planetmaker> hehe @ frosch123
19:24:42  <Ammler> planetmaker: can't you workaround that bug?
19:24:51  <planetmaker> Ammler: not really
19:24:57  <Yexo> well, it's possible
19:25:26  <Yexo> but as long as no TTDPatch dev can be bothered to even reply to my post I'm not bothered to try and support ttdpatch
19:25:45  <Yexo> working around it this time is easy, but if there is no support at all then it's pointless to support ttdpatch
19:26:25  <planetmaker> I fully agree
19:27:15  <Ammler> Yexo: ever considered to support the sim city newobjects?
19:27:33  <Yexo> yes
19:27:38  <Ammler> but? :-)
19:27:50  <Yexo> haven't found the time to actually do it
19:27:59  <planetmaker> 24h limit on the day(s) I guess
19:28:06  <Ammler> ah ok, so no real blockage
19:28:11  <Yexo> nope
19:28:20  <Yexo> belugas did some very early work on it already
19:28:33  <Yexo> but I haven't even looked how much work it would be to support in openttd
19:28:52  <Yexo> I dislike writing guis, that's a bit of a showstopper for me
19:29:04  <Ammler> I think it is like stations without station sign
19:29:17  <Yexo> no, it's a different internal structure
19:29:24  <Yexo> it's more like houses
19:29:26  <Ammler> or industries without production
19:30:02  * andythenorth considers newobjects 'not a pony'
19:30:04  <andythenorth> :)
19:30:06  <Ammler> hmm, does ttdp newobjects also support random placements of it?
19:30:47  <frosch123> hmm, are newobjects necessarily rectangular?
19:30:57  <Yexo> I don't think so, but there were plans to support it for lighthouses
19:31:39  <Yexo> frosch123: according to yes
19:33:03  <planetmaker> necessarily rectangular sounds... extensible ;-)
19:33:45  * andythenorth ponders some newobjects
19:34:00  <Ammler> :-)
19:34:09  <planetmaker> andythenorth: go fishing some heavy equipment firs ;-P
19:34:15  <planetmaker> puns intended
19:34:19  <Ammler> t
19:34:27  <planetmaker> nope
19:34:32  <Ammler> :-D
19:37:28  * andythenorth thinks eye-candy fields beats new objects
19:37:47  <frosch123> in unfinishedness?
19:38:06  <andythenorth> aren't they about the same on that scale?
19:38:09  <andythenorth> i.e. not done
19:42:22  <FooBar> Is helicopters hovering above fishing grounds a problem?
19:42:29  <andythenorth> yes
19:42:38  <andythenorth> that's why there's no dredging site currently
19:42:51  <FooBar> darn...
19:42:55  <andythenorth> we await new airports eagerly
19:43:09  <andythenorth> we have two options
19:43:10  <FooBar> copying the station from the oilrigs is the only possibility to get a station for ships there
19:43:34  <andythenorth> 1. live with the helicopter stopping in mid air with blades stopped
19:43:43  <andythenorth> 2. draw a lighthouse at sea with helipda
19:43:46  <andythenorth> helipad /s
19:43:55  <andythenorth> 1 is less work
19:44:20  <FooBar> 2 is ugly, as it doesn't go with my fishing grounds
19:45:07  <planetmaker> FooBar: 1
19:45:13  <FooBar> ok, done
19:45:26  <andythenorth> and hope for new airports :o
19:45:30  <planetmaker> players who go heli-fishing don't deserve better
19:46:46  <FooBar> I wonder if there are helicopters that can be refitted to fish. The default helicopters don't allow that
19:47:04  <andythenorth> AV8
19:47:11  <planetmaker> FooBar: ogfxplus ;-)
19:47:23  <planetmaker> though... not sure. I might add it then :-P
19:47:26  <FooBar> then those sets should be fixed :P
19:47:57  <planetmaker> heli-fishing sounds like a new trend sport for millionairs.
19:48:14  <andythenorth> chinook - with sling
19:48:21  <andythenorth> pikka is a comedian
19:50:36  <FooBar> wait for it...
19:50:41  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1076 (Closed): Minor renum warning on i_fishinggrounds.pnfo (foobar) @
19:50:41  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1028:c0e50edab9d2: Fix #1076: renum warning on i_fishing... (foobar) @
19:50:41  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1076 (Closed): Minor renum warning on i_fishinggrounds.pnfo (foobar) @
19:51:17  <andythenorth> 2 crates of fish under the chinook
19:51:39  <FooBar> :)
19:52:57  <andythenorth> no fishing harbour?
19:54:26  <frosch123> [21:47] <planetmaker> heli-fishing sounds like a new trend sport for millionairs. <- sounds like one-time fun
19:54:44  <planetmaker> :-)
19:55:00  <planetmaker> win for the darwin award?
19:55:39  <frosch123> no idea how robust fishing lines are though
19:56:16  <planetmaker> quite, I think
19:56:19  <planetmaker> nylon
19:57:18  <FooBar> andythenorth: not yet. I left it disabled, as it needs to be changed into secondary industry too
19:57:42  <andythenorth> ah
19:58:13  <andythenorth> it can probably use secondary template C
19:58:13  <andythenorth> #include "../../templates/template_secondary_action23_C.pnfo"
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20:03:28  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1029:0d3260f22357: Feature #708: Polish translation (re)... (foobar) @
20:03:28  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #708 (Closed): polish language file (foobar) @
20:16:07  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1030:880eb8e4fb52: Feature: (re)add German translation (foobar) @
20:19:42  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1077: internal error, assertion of byte value (Hirundo) @
20:23:28  * andythenorth wonders what production level fishing grounds should have
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20:27:09  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1045 (Closed): non-matching string codes (Hirundo) @
20:30:56  <FooBar> yeah me too, I think they're a bit high atm
20:31:30  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #994 (Closed): unused tokens (Hirundo) @
20:31:56  <planetmaker> Hirundo: but... shouldn't it NOT issue an internal error?
20:32:03  <planetmaker> whatever I feed it?
20:32:17  <Hirundo> yes
20:32:53  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #974: Write sprites instead of bytes (Hirundo) @
20:33:17  <Hirundo> <- better now?
20:34:52  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1077: internal error, assertion of byte value (Hirundo) @
20:35:06  <planetmaker> :-)
20:35:31  <andythenorth> should fishing grounds cluster?
20:35:33  <andythenorth> probably not
20:35:46  <FooBar> they go whereever the fish go ;)
20:36:02  <FooBar> maybe they shouldn't be able to increase production
20:36:13  <andythenorth> good point
20:36:18  <andythenorth> they wouldn't accept anything
20:36:27  <andythenorth> we could put waste in for a production decrease :P
20:36:34  <FooBar> they already don't accept anything
20:36:49  <FooBar> waste would be a good easter egg
20:36:50  <PeterT> FooBar: congrats on registering your nick ;-)
20:36:59  <FooBar> PeterT: thanks!
20:37:13  <PeterT> I saw the buffer in #oftc, very polite! :-D
20:37:27  <FooBar> I figured, I saw you online there when I asked
20:37:37  <PeterT> hehe :D
20:38:03  <andythenorth> I reckon about 90t fish is about riht
20:38:05  <andythenorth> right /s
20:38:13  <FooBar> yeah, that could work
20:38:42  <andythenorth> we should make it obvious which is the station tile
20:38:45  <planetmaker> andythenorth: it might make sense to cluster them when calling for "prospecting"
20:38:51  <planetmaker> then it's rather like fish farms
20:39:14  <andythenorth> if vehicles had % full load then it would make rather more sense
20:39:22  * andythenorth would like % full load somewhat
20:39:31  <planetmaker> why?
20:39:42  <FooBar> indicating the station tile might be hard, as changing it would also change it for the oil platforms and possibly even disable the station facility
20:40:16  <andythenorth> FooBar: if we make one tile with different colour sprite, then put it in a consistent location that will do
20:40:29  <planetmaker> well. anyway. I'm off to bed. good night folks
20:40:34  <andythenorth> planetmaker: vehicles could go to station A, load 50%, station B, 100%, deliver
20:40:36  <andythenorth> good night
20:40:45  <planetmaker> yeah, right Ok :-)
20:40:47  <FooBar> night!
20:40:57  <andythenorth> % load would be really nice for fishing grounds
20:41:51  <FooBar> I agree, also for oil rigs
20:42:06  <FooBar> I had like 10 in a row in my last game which had very little water
20:42:48  <FooBar> I ended up putting conditional orders after every stop: if full, go deliver
20:43:13  <FooBar> about the loading tile: maybe some splashing water could work. I'll look into that
20:44:13  <FooBar> It does check for at least two tiles of clearance around the grounds, so if players are not silly, ships should be able to access it any time. Finding where to click for the order is a bit tricky though
20:53:21  * andythenorth ponders: drawing or bed?
20:53:45  <FooBar> whatever you prefer
20:54:00  <andythenorth> I am waiting for more exciting commits :)
20:54:16  <FooBar> I'm going to watch tv in 10 minutes anyways
20:54:31  <andythenorth> bed for me then
20:54:36  <FooBar> Oh, you should've asked that earlier, I'm playing solitaire now :P
20:54:37  <andythenorth> drawing can wait
20:54:40  <FooBar> good night!
20:54:49  <andythenorth> solitaire :P
20:55:03  <andythenorth> the most popular game in the world
20:55:16  <FooBar> the most pre-installed game in the world too :P
20:55:17  * andythenorth ponders solitaire.grf
20:55:22  <FooBar> :)
20:55:28  <andythenorth> not pre-installed here
20:55:35  <FooBar> you've been pondering a lot today...
20:55:37  <andythenorth> I had to go find a free version :o
20:55:38  <FooBar> no?
20:55:47  <andythenorth> I ponder stuff more than I do stuff
20:55:53  <FooBar> I know it's preinstalled on the ipod, but not on MacOS?
20:55:56  * Ammler ponders pondering andythenorth
20:56:10  <andythenorth> no solitaire on OS X
20:56:20  <andythenorth> it's a second-rate platform :P
20:56:29  <andythenorth> does linux have solitaire yet?
20:56:38  <Ammler> FooBar: try the 100 different variants on Linux
20:56:51  <FooBar> there's only one on my Ubuntu...
20:57:00  <Ammler> andythenorth: Linux has everything but mostly better ;-)
20:57:03  <FooBar> pre-installed, that is, as that's what we're talking about
20:57:19  <FooBar> Ammler: and mostly in more variants, too
20:57:57  <andythenorth> good night :)
20:58:07  <FooBar> good night to you too
20:58:49  <Ammler> FooBar: andythenorth
20:59:09  <Rubidium> Ammler: it doesn't have itunes!
20:59:29  <FooBar> who want's itunes anyways?
21:00:21  <Ammler> Rubidium: it has amarok
21:00:33  <Rubidium> those who *need* to have a i[crap] device at all costs
21:01:07  <FooBar> there are enough alternatives to get songs back and fort on your ipod. Not that I've tried any...
21:01:28  <Ammler> Klondike is it called
21:02:36  <Rubidium> FooBar: but... how do you get OpenTTD from itunes?
21:02:51  <FooBar> not, I have my alternative sources ;)
21:02:57  <Rubidium> which is obviously the only reason one would ever want itunes
21:03:08  <FooBar> there's this here website, I believe
21:03:30  <Rubidium> and does that provide binaries that work on say... i[crap] devices?
21:03:52  <FooBar> no, but those don't work on Windows anyways
21:04:23  <FooBar> but anyways, I'm off to the tv
21:04:38  <FooBar> good night everyone!
21:05:15  <Rubidium> FooBar: Mart?
21:05:28  <Rubidium> anyhow... have a good night FooBar
22:07:16  <FooBar> Rubidium: yes :)
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