Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 24th July 2010:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:44:52  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 223:391535d23fe4: Prepare release 8.0-beta1 (Ammler) @
01:44:35  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 224:cd872888baf2: current GRF list (with bananas) (Ammler) @
01:44:35  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 225:1134f10e0574: Ignore export and bananas (Ammler) @
01:44:35  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 226:46147a152a3a: Fix (r223): sprites should be removed (Ammler) @
02:23:09  *** Englanddragon has quit IRC
02:45:31  *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
03:57:15  *** welshdragon has quit IRC
04:20:20  *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
06:04:36  *** welshdragon has quit IRC
06:27:49  *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
07:04:13  *** PeterT_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
07:06:50  *** PeterT has quit IRC
07:06:50  *** PeterT_ is now known as PeterT
07:22:33  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 367:7a6db6072dcc: Change: set global depot y offset param... (andythenorth) @
07:22:33  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 368:e0c28193a22c: Change: rail vehicles don't need separa... (andythenorth) @
07:22:38  *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
07:28:45  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 227:e8ee579f6b50: Revert: re-add BK tunnels v0.3a (planetmaker) @
07:30:40  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 369:d4dd58068ea1: Change: removed code for rail version o... (andythenorth) @
07:49:17  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 228:ddee41407009: Revert: Old CS tramset needed (psg99) (planetmaker) @
07:52:29  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 229:34a880d6dd16: Revert #1009: German trams needed (psg99) (planetmaker) @
07:55:26  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 230:dce0a5ac5291: Revert #1009: Old Dutch tramset needed (... (planetmaker) @
08:03:47  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 231:2118eb02ed12: Revert #1009: NewMonorailMrHuntW.grf nee... (planetmaker) @
08:16:51  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Bug #1009: removed too many obsolete newgrfs (planetmaker) @
08:30:18  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 232:08e067dad45a: Revert #1009 #542: Old OpenGFX rail vehi... (planetmaker) @
08:49:57  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Bug #1009: removed too many obsolete newgrfs (planetmaker) @
08:54:50  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Bug #1009: removed too many obsolete newgrfs (planetmaker) @
08:57:23  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 233:045680952c17: Fix #1009: Add nhfoundations 0.1 (psg 123) (planetmaker) @
08:57:23  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Bug #1009 (Closed): removed too many obsolete newgrfs (planetmaker) @
08:59:14  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Bug #1009 (Reopened): removed too many obsolete newgrfs (planetmaker) @
09:01:42  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Bug #1009: removed too many obsolete newgrfs (planetmaker) @
09:14:11  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #314 (Closed): errors on a few sprites (andythenorth) @
09:14:11  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1110 (New): Gmund Mog Road + Rail versions (andythenorth) @
09:15:58  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1111 (New): Redraw tractors (andythenorth) @
09:17:34  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1112 (New): Convert mining trucks to cpp templates (andythenorth) @
09:17:34  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1113 (New): Convert logging trucks to cpp templates (andythenorth) @
09:17:34  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1114 (New): Convert bulldozers to cpp templates (andythenorth) @
09:17:34  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1115 (New): ETF mining trucks (andythenorth) @
09:19:28  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1116 (New): Redraw logging trucks (andythenorth) @
09:21:21  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1117 (New): Convert all vehicles to CPP real sprites - as... (andythenorth) @
09:21:21  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1118 (New): Template Mining Trucks action 1-2-3 (andythenorth) @
09:22:06  <Alberth> making a bit of work for yourself? :)
09:23:26  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1110: Gmund Mog Road + Rail versions (andythenorth) @
09:23:26  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #1119 (New): No. 9 Crawler is sometimes simply missing from game. (andythenorth) @
09:23:26  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 234:d9e54fa28fe7: Change #1009: Re-add old brick foundatio... (planetmaker) @
09:25:46  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1111 (New): Redraw tractors (andythenorth) @
09:25:46  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1120 (New): Redraw standard trailers - too large (andythenorth) @
09:39:56  *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
09:53:00  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #1121 (New): missing files (planetmaker) @
09:56:35  <Brot6> Nutracks - Bug #1122 (New): re-definition of blank (planetmaker) @
09:59:30  <Rubidium> planetmaker: already used the new and highly unofficial nforenum/grfcodecs?
09:59:43  <planetmaker> yes
10:00:13  <planetmaker> looks like you put quite a bit work into them :-)
10:00:25  <planetmaker> But... nutracks still has zillions of errors...
10:00:28  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 370:3ce9debc9142: Add: pcx file for light trucks (andythenorth) @
10:01:23  <andythenorth> one day we'll figure out an easy solution to the missing files problem :P
10:01:38  <andythenorth> meanwhile, someone always finds it quite quickly :)
10:01:49  <planetmaker> andythenorth: hg st usually helps :-)
10:02:36  <andythenorth> I put that in the class of solutions called "people need to be better than they are"
10:02:42  * andythenorth afk for the day
10:02:56  <Rubidium> planetmaker: zillions?
10:03:46  <planetmaker> 90% are white pixels. But it it complains about wrong properties in its action0...
10:04:08  <Alberth> Rubidium: more than you care to count :)
10:04:40  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #1121 (Closed): missing files (planetmaker) @
10:04:40  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #1121 (Closed): missing files (andythenorth) @
10:04:42  <planetmaker>
10:05:22  <Rubidium> planetmaker: first update nforenum!
10:05:32  <planetmaker> again?
10:05:38  <Rubidium> you're using one of a week or two ago
10:05:43  <planetmaker> hm
10:05:57  <planetmaker> then my symlink failed :S
10:06:52  <andythenorth> I could run my own buildbot locally  I suppose, and have it flash my screen red if files are missing :P
10:07:26  <planetmaker> yes... it linked still to the old binary name
10:08:10  *** Yexo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
10:08:20  <planetmaker> better now :-)
10:11:01  <Rubidium> there's a bunch of action3 warnings that seem valid (to me) and the action0 warnings are definitely correct
10:11:31  <Rubidium> unless \b means byte and it's using duodecimal
10:11:43  <planetmaker> looking at the re-nforenum'ed code I tend to agree.
10:11:53  <planetmaker> \b means that a decimal byte value follows
10:12:06  <Ammler> planetmaker: I hope, you didn't add GRFs again, I removed :-)
10:12:22  <planetmaker> Ammler: I didn't entirely check that.
10:12:34  <planetmaker> I mostly checked loading of savegames :-)
10:12:36  <Ammler> I run fdupes through the pack and bananas
10:12:46  <planetmaker> ?
10:12:46  <Ammler> ok, seems fine
10:13:03  <planetmaker> still, there's a list of missing newgrfs.
10:13:07  <Ammler> fdupes does detect doubles
10:13:07  <Rubidium> but do you have everything from bananas? :)
10:13:23  <planetmaker> Rubidium: maybe not everything, but what I can reasonably get
10:13:33  <planetmaker> everything simply isn't possible
10:13:33  <Ammler> Rubidium: "someone" setup a stupid rule there, so no, I don't :-P
10:13:45  *** welshdragon has quit IRC
10:14:10  <Ammler> I setup a without-personal-dir openttd
10:14:20  <planetmaker> Rubidium: the point should be that anyone with the grfpack and bananas access *should* be able to load our savegames
10:14:22  <Ammler> so I was able to really download every new one
10:14:29  <planetmaker> which currently fails for a number of them
10:14:49  <planetmaker> Ammler: I did the same. I removed the ottd grf dir and then started from there
10:14:56  <planetmaker> and then checked each psg
10:15:09  <planetmaker> after adding trunk grfpack
10:15:27  <Ammler> Rubidium: you could maybe at least publish a list like
10:16:09  <Ammler> planetmaker: I also added rewrite rules so it isn't possible to download a single grf
10:16:21  <planetmaker> ok
10:17:13  <Ammler> so MB can't complain again and I don't need to have it private
10:17:41  <planetmaker> why do you need to have it private?
10:17:53  <Ammler> it is public now
10:17:56  <Rubidium>
10:17:57  <planetmaker> as long as you don't link the grfs
10:18:58  <Rubidium> ^ those are all NewGRFs that are in bananas
10:19:53  <Ammler> <-- link Download
10:20:07  <planetmaker> 305 versions... :-)
10:20:49  <Rubidium> with 133 NewGRFs, that's like 2.5 versions over 1.5 years
10:21:00  <planetmaker> Ammler: before we release a 8.0 beta or RC we should 'fix' the missing newgrfs for our psg savegames
10:21:14  <planetmaker> that's an acceptable advancement IMHO
10:21:18  <Ammler> well, I will setup a build script
10:21:29  <Ammler> so it doesn't need much work anymore
10:21:34  <planetmaker> :-)
10:21:41  <Ammler> it should be quite easy with Mercurial
10:21:48  <planetmaker> those remaining ones become increasingly difficult to find
10:22:04  <Ammler> then we can ask #openttdcoop to help us
10:22:09  <planetmaker> I hope you have *somewhere* the really old grfpacks
10:22:57  <Ammler>
10:23:21  <Ammler> but shht :-)
10:23:32  <Ammler> oh
10:23:34  <planetmaker> :x
10:23:37  <Ammler> not really
10:23:54  <Ammler> well, we have the full history in the Mercurial repo
10:24:09  <planetmaker> but only since some version 6 or so
10:24:33  <planetmaker> 6                                  1:a901b9d9d39d
10:25:21  <Ammler> 4 and 5 have completely different structure
10:25:29  <Ammler> I have those locally
10:25:43  <Ammler> you like a zip?
10:27:41  <Ammler> also don't forget to update
10:28:04  <Ammler> I just changed status to BaNaNaS
10:29:38  <planetmaker> I just got 4. There are zips for those on the link you gave - so it's fine
10:30:45  <Rubidium> oh... tycoonez has written as stupid "custom" license
10:30:58  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 235:8127f635d5aa: Add #1009: Planeset for old games (psg35) (planetmaker) @
10:31:13  <planetmaker> hm... where?
10:31:38  <Ammler> afaik no distribution
10:31:47  <planetmaker> lol
10:31:50  <Rubidium> "archiving it in electronical or any other form ... are strictly forbidden" <- that's invalidated by my fair use law, which invalidates the whole license
10:32:01  <Rubidium> also...
10:32:07  <Rubidium> "t is not permitted to release them as your own work, modify them or distribute for financial gain."
10:32:13  <Rubidium> +I
10:32:20  <Rubidium> now... lawyery reading that
10:32:31  <Rubidium> "It is not permitted to (release them as your own work, modify them or distribute) for financial gain."
10:32:49  <Rubidium> oh... so if I don't gain money, it's not not permitted?
10:33:13  <planetmaker> eh?
10:33:33  <Rubidium> it's just that custom licenses are often so stupid
10:34:04  <Ammler> like pikkas, which is as good as no license
10:34:17  <Rubidium> "If you wish to modify for personal use, or use, any part of this set, please ask for prior permission." <- from canadian trains... is that a request for asking, but not an obligation? Even so, fair use law...
10:34:41  <Rubidium> <- link to "all grf by PikkaBird" == 404
10:35:11  <Rubidium> same for aegir (wonders whether it would be "leet" to write "aoa" instead of "404")
10:36:01  *** Yexo has quit IRC
10:36:06  <Alberth> in terms of readability, definitely
10:36:09  <planetmaker> hehe
10:36:24  <planetmaker> Rubidium: a small odditiy with 'rescan files' I just encountered:
10:36:56  <planetmaker> 'rescan' updated the list in the newgrf list when accessed from the load menu. But when I then exited that screen, it was listed again as missing in the load menu
10:36:59  <planetmaker> itself
10:37:22  <Rubidium> tell that to frosch (i.e. file a bug report)
10:37:25  <planetmaker> and only became visible when I rescaned it again
10:37:27  <planetmaker> ok
10:38:01  <Ammler> fixed...
10:38:12  <Ammler> (license link)
10:40:56  <Rubidium> ever read WTFPL?
10:41:26  <planetmaker> hehe... CS' license = WTFPL?
10:41:34  <Rubidium> nope
10:41:38  <Rubidium>
10:41:40  <Webster> Title: WTFPL - Do What The Fuck You Want To Public License (at
10:42:41  <planetmaker> ah, yes :-)
10:42:50  <Ammler> "as long as the name changes" is not really wtf
10:42:50  <Rubidium> especially the part about "Can’t you change the wording? It’s inappropriate / childish / not corporate-compliant." :)
10:43:53  <Rubidium> Ammler: but *that* you can easily work around
10:44:03  <Ammler> :-)
10:44:18  <Ammler> with 2 releases :-P
10:44:20  <Rubidium> just remove all knowledge of the old name, release that (possibly under the same license)
10:44:30  <Rubidium> yep, exacly
10:44:32  <Rubidium> +t
10:44:41  <planetmaker> Rubidium: you should add it to bananas pre-selected ones
10:45:26  <Rubidium> nah, it might be offensive to people
10:45:36  <Ammler> you should add a "source link" to bananas, if someone uses GPL
10:45:53  <Rubidium> s/you/TrueBrain/
10:45:58  <Rubidium> yes, I totally agree with that
10:46:40  <Ammler> but maybe we should simply start making a source package beside :-)
10:46:42  <Rubidium> and I've already requested that (
10:47:51  <planetmaker> you want to store all grf sources in bananas?
10:49:01  <Rubidium> I'm not that sure that a link would be that useful, but that might suffice as well; it would definitely be a lot easier
10:50:07  <Ammler> this was btw. my "big" bananas cleanup commit:
10:51:39  <planetmaker> well. A link is easily faked. But those who don't want to...
10:51:54  <planetmaker> I agree it'd make it A LOT easier to obtain source
10:52:16  <Ammler> Rubidium: suggested upload of the source bundle
10:53:08  <Rubidium> though... asking for a link is much much easier to accomplish
10:56:39  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Bug #544 (Closed): Remove (e)GRVTS (Ammler) @
10:56:39  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 236:78ec56e6d546: Add #1009: CS rails needed by old savega... (planetmaker) @
10:56:39  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Bug #542 (Closed): Remove OpenGFX newgrfs (Ammler) @
10:56:40  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Bug #547: Remove Pikka's NewGRFs (Ammler) @
10:56:43  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Bug #547 (Closed): Remove Pikka's NewGRFs (Ammler) @
10:56:46  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 237:71d75ec20ff3: Add #1009: Old metro tracks required by ... (planetmaker) @
10:57:54  <Ammler> there are still some GRFs which can be moved to obsolete
10:59:01  <planetmaker> yes. But I first want to fix the missing ones
11:03:01  <Ammler> well, for me, it was fine enough, if the game was loadable
11:03:12  <Ammler> I didn't care that much about missing grfs
11:03:29  <planetmaker> Well... I don't like missing.
11:03:34  <planetmaker> hm
11:03:35  <Ammler> only those which crashed
11:03:56  <Ammler> yeah, all fine, just like to explain me ;-)
11:04:21  <planetmaker> :-)
11:04:58  *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
11:06:56  <planetmaker> it looks so much like an error :-)
11:07:21  <planetmaker> I was thinking of providing empty dummy newgrfs :-P
11:07:34  <Ammler> hehe
11:07:36  <planetmaker> hm... can the grfID be changed via grf parameter?
11:07:45  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 238:8d88c7411111: Add #1009: Old Japanese trees required b... (planetmaker) @
11:07:48  <Ammler> why did we remove cs-rails?
11:07:50  <planetmaker> like actionD, action6, action8?
11:07:55  <planetmaker> I don't know+
11:08:11  <Rubidium> planetmaker: I don't think OpenTTD supports doing that
11:08:26  <planetmaker> :-) Sounds like a big hack anyway
11:08:33  <Rubidium> *but* I'm far from certain
11:08:55  <planetmaker> would be nearly worth a try :-)
11:10:20  *** Yexo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
11:29:42  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 239:6bbceb38c61b: Add #1009: Old canset needed by old save... (planetmaker) @
11:36:50  <Ammler> I usually kept the z_obsolete without any docs
11:36:57  <Ammler> only plain grf
11:37:18  <Ammler> so people don't get the idea, they could use it for new games
11:38:19  <planetmaker> hm
11:39:07  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 240:df449d2ea79d: Add #1009: DutchTramSet r20 needed by ol... (planetmaker) @
11:39:16  <Ammler> well
11:39:32  <Ammler> if the grf is in the obsolete only, we might need it
11:40:33  <planetmaker> I didn't consider that we make a distinction when to distribute the readme and when not.
11:40:44  <planetmaker> IMHO it should be sufficient to place them in z_obsolete
11:40:55  <Ammler> yes, might be better
11:41:00  <planetmaker> Providing the readme is IMHO a curtosy to the authors and sometimes might be even required
11:42:35  <Ammler> we might need to distinguish between bananas obosletes and pack obsoletes
11:55:07  *** Yexo has quit IRC
12:11:23  <Ammler> planetmaker: I guess, we don't need update and legacy packs anymore
12:11:43  <Ammler> we just keep the old version for some time to support legacy
12:11:44  <planetmaker> I agree
12:11:59  <planetmaker> Well. Old versions are kept in z_obsolete. Forever
12:12:12  <Ammler> and for updateing, just download the whole package
12:12:50  <Ammler> planetmaker: they legacy package was never meant for old saves :-P
12:13:06  <Ammler> hmm, I told you that for sure 10 times already ;-)
12:13:17  <planetmaker> yes. For servers or so
12:13:19  <planetmaker> but still
12:13:36  <Ammler> the legacy packs had grfs, which are removed or updated
12:16:01  <Ammler> "hg archive -Iottdc_grfpack" should make the pack
12:16:10  <planetmaker> I never understood the difference :-P
12:17:35  <Ammler> tar.gz, tar.bz2, zip, 7zip and rar
12:23:17  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Bug #1123 (New): Bananas GRFs (Ammler) @
12:26:21  <planetmaker> Ammler: I wonder whether we should create two versions, though: one with all currently needed newgrfs (default) and one which only as an add-on contains the z_obsolete folder
12:30:01  <Ammler> well, we could make 2 splitted packs and a "full" pack
12:30:47  <Ammler> but then we will get questions, "which pack do I need?"
12:31:51  <Ammler> "hg archive -Iottdc_grfpack -Xottdc_grfpack/z_obsolete" should be possible
12:32:57  <Ammler> I more wonder, how we should continue maintain our GRF_Table
12:36:25  *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
12:36:29  <planetmaker> Ammler: I'd actually propose to make two packs.
12:36:36  <planetmaker> The normal one without z_obsolete
12:36:49  <Ammler> for who?
12:37:04  <planetmaker> and an add-on which has just that. Named 'old_savegames' or whatever
12:37:14  <Ammler> hmm
12:37:54  <planetmaker> I mean... new games shall now use them. And... I don't know how many use old savegames ;-)
12:38:04  <Ammler> the normal one should become empty ;-)
12:38:14  <planetmaker> yes
12:38:26  <planetmaker> that's why everything move to z_obsolete, no?
12:38:53  <Ammler> everything except bananas
12:39:02  <planetmaker> well. Bananas is removed completely
12:39:15  <planetmaker> if it's not needed for pre-bananas versions.
12:41:55  <Ammler> what about the GRF_Table?
12:42:13  <planetmaker> in what respect?
12:42:24  <Ammler> trash it or what?
12:43:00  <planetmaker> why trashing it?
12:43:15  <Ammler> because you didn't make any single update :-P
12:43:23  <planetmaker> :-P
12:43:58  <Ammler> I would like to keep it, specially the links to guides
12:44:09  <planetmaker> yes, I want that, too :-)
12:44:33  <Ammler> and sometimes, our entries are more up2date then grfcrawler or whatever
12:47:04  <Ammler> the readme needs also a overhaul
12:48:01  <planetmaker> Question is: should all the obsolete newgrfs really be documented there?
12:48:22  <planetmaker> That'd make them very much visible which we don't really want. Or?
12:49:59  <Ammler> not obsolete
12:50:02  <Ammler> but bananas
12:50:18  <Ammler> well, I would like to change it to a NewGRF index
12:50:35  <Ammler> since we don't have every NewGRF anymore in our package
12:50:35  <planetmaker> oh, that's something different :-)
12:51:22  <planetmaker> I think that should be a separate thing. Or at least a separate file, if you like
12:51:33  <Ammler> then not by me
12:51:37  <planetmaker> It should be clear which files are part of this pack (the grf table)
12:51:52  <Ammler> the md5list
12:51:54  <planetmaker> but the newgrf index then would need to be a separate one
12:52:05  <planetmaker> which can have both, this pack and bananas listed
12:52:06  <Ammler> the list is not just a list
12:52:17  <Ammler> it does also hold links or other additional infos
12:52:43  <planetmaker> well. yes.
12:52:53  <planetmaker> But still I think it should be separate
12:53:03  <Ammler> yes
12:53:10  <planetmaker> Or no-one will know what is part of the pack, if it is covered in 90% bananas
12:53:19  <Ammler> but then we don't need a wiki page for the packa anymore
12:53:29  <planetmaker> possibly
12:53:48  <planetmaker> the wiki page could then be superseeded by the general newgrf list
12:54:01  <planetmaker> but it'll be a pain to maintain that
12:54:05  <Ammler> I guess, we could remove the license columns
12:54:17  <planetmaker> hm. I wouldn't like to tbh
12:54:48  <Ammler> those are outdated anyway
12:55:08  <Ammler> and you still have it in the history
12:55:20  <Ammler> but there is no need to "hunt" licences anymore
12:55:26  <planetmaker> true
12:55:36  <planetmaker> though it's a nice quick overview
12:56:01  <Ammler> I meant those 2 colors columns
12:56:01  <planetmaker> maybe just the license icon; not as verbose as now
12:56:06  <Ammler> not the one with the authr
12:56:08  <planetmaker> oh. yes. they're not needed
12:58:22  <Ammler> hg rename ottdc_grfpack/z_obsolete ottdc_grfpack_old ?
13:01:41  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 241:99fecd40e5fc: Remove: outdated GRFList (Ammler) @
13:02:37  <planetmaker> I still think that z_obsolete is a good name
13:02:40  <planetmaker> No need to change that
13:02:52  <planetmaker> Those newgrfs are indeed obsolete after all
13:03:44  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Bug #1009: removed too many obsolete newgrfs (planetmaker) @
13:05:51  <Ammler> planetmaker: did you try to load the save with the grfpack from that time?
13:06:10  <planetmaker> which? #62?
13:06:17  <Ammler> yes
13:06:27  <planetmaker> Not quite.
13:06:33  <Ammler> hg up 6
13:06:39  <planetmaker> But I had all newgrfs which reference vehicles
13:07:25  <Ammler> hmm, might be 4 or 5
13:09:56  <planetmaker> hm, could you add a zip of v5 to the old pack link you gave?
13:13:15  <Ammler> planetmaker: should be there
13:14:37  <planetmaker> thx, Ammler
13:32:26  <Alberth> andythenorth: is sand that expensive?
13:33:33  <Ammler> lol
14:17:35  <planetmaker> Alberth: I guess that's a matter of the rail newgrf, not of FIRS ;-)
14:17:41  <planetmaker> But a nice LOOL indeed :-)
14:18:07  <planetmaker> But I recall having come up with similar oddities when I started with OpenGFX+ wagons and cargo classes only
14:19:12  <Alberth> they may be more common than I think perhaps
14:20:44  <Alberth> but does an armoured van not have a flag 'valuable stuff in here please' ?
14:23:47  <planetmaker> ARMOURED is a cargo class on its own
14:24:00  <planetmaker> but a newgrf author may assigne also other classes to that wagon
14:24:17  <planetmaker> maybe in order to allow some kind of important express goods or so
14:24:41  <planetmaker> and if one is not careful... voila, you end up with a bulk material there.
14:24:56  <planetmaker> It definitely is a glitch in the respective rail set, though
14:25:08  <planetmaker> is it old wagons new cargos?
14:26:10  <planetmaker> it's easy to mix things up if tested with one industry newgrf and then used with another, not entirely compatible cargo definitions
14:26:23  <planetmaker> might even come out this way, if no cargo classes, but only cargo slots are used
14:27:29  <planetmaker> In any case from my experience so far from the wagons of 2cctrainset v1.x: one can spend an incredible amount of time to adjust the cargos for wagons so that they transport only sensible cargos for the various possible cases
14:28:38  <planetmaker> so yes: it's possible to set that flag. But it's easy to do more (or less) than wanted, too
14:28:48  <planetmaker> cargo classes are not unambigeous
14:32:15  <Ammler> planetmaker: why would you like to split the packs?
14:32:22  <Ammler> it isn't the size?
14:33:44  <Ammler> the pack is 22MB only anymore
14:34:19  <planetmaker> well. The reason is rather weak: not distribute the obsolete package needlessly
14:34:23  *** welshdragon has quit IRC
14:34:33  <planetmaker> Size probably as you show is no argument
14:34:57  <Ammler> the question is then, who does use the "normal" package only?
14:35:00  <planetmaker> if you prefer one pack (and it's easier to maintain anyway), it's good enough reason to keep it as one
14:35:10  <planetmaker> yes, valid question. I'm not sure
14:35:17  <planetmaker> The 'usual' PS players might.
14:35:23  <planetmaker> But at some stage they might not...
14:35:25  <planetmaker> dunno
14:35:40  <Ammler> you like quite soon to try a archive game
14:35:47  <Ammler> maybe rather than playing on ps
14:37:01  <Ammler> if we split, would you move the obsolete to its own main directory
14:37:10  <Ammler> or keep it in ottdc_grfpack?
14:38:05  <Ammler> hmm, yes, it would also mean maintain a own readme etc.
14:38:35  <planetmaker> well. Probably best to keep it together
14:40:03  <planetmaker> I only fear that people might then use those in maps they'll provide
14:40:19  <planetmaker> we really, really should make sure they're not used without need
14:40:21  <Ammler> yeah, but that would also happen else
14:40:28  <planetmaker> yes
14:40:47  <Ammler> if you once have the grfs in the data, it is up to openttd
14:43:14  <Ammler> I mean, that is the whole versioning, also the reason, openttd needs to list every version
14:43:22  <Ammler> there should be flag, show only newest
14:47:33  <Ammler> currently the biggest issue is when someone uses a bananas grf for preparing the game, then we load that game a month later and between, there was a bananas update
14:47:54  <Ammler> so you have to fix again the save locally until you can load it on the server
14:49:32  <Ammler> cleanup bananas is deleting all bananas and download again
14:49:55  <Ammler> if you don't have luck, this can get a pain
14:55:21  *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
14:56:41  <planetmaker> hu? I don't get that.
14:57:01  <Ammler> what?
14:57:03  <planetmaker> Using the 2nd newest version on bananas is not a really bad thing.
14:57:08  <planetmaker> Though not nice, it's ok
14:57:13  <Ammler> how to download that?
14:57:23  <planetmaker> on a server? Dunno
14:57:27  <planetmaker> On a client: easy
14:57:49  <Ammler> yeah, I know, nbodoy cares about server :-P
14:57:54  <planetmaker> :-P
14:58:15  <planetmaker> that 'just' needs an additional rcon command
14:58:27  <planetmaker> or an improved handling for loading on a server
14:59:06  <planetmaker> or better an additional adv. setting (default=false): auto-download missing newgrfs
14:59:07  <Ammler> --autodownload :-)
14:59:19  <planetmaker> or like that
14:59:43  *** Seberoth2 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
14:59:48  <Ammler> I guess, I setup a cron, which does in hourly base sync with
15:00:37  <Ammler> he, that might be easier then download with console
15:00:43  <planetmaker> :-)
15:00:49  <planetmaker> hourly might be too much.
15:00:53  <planetmaker> Just daily
15:01:04  <Ammler> whatever
15:01:08  *** Seber^03 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:01:14  *** Seberoth2 has quit IRC
15:01:27  <Ammler> Seber^03: fix the connection ;-)
15:03:13  *** Seberoth2 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:03:26  *** Seberoth has quit IRC
15:04:56  *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:07:29  *** Seberoth has quit IRC
15:10:11  *** Seber^03 has quit IRC
15:12:39  <planetmaker> btw... now that the grfpack works for me for all games I tested (10%) and has compatible for all psg (100% tested, I hope), IMHO it's fit to go for a beta stage
15:12:41  *** Seberoth2 has quit IRC
15:12:48  <planetmaker> (after changelog and readme updates)
15:13:55  <Ammler> he, indeed, we could add the changelog to the source
15:14:30  <Ammler>
15:14:55  <Ammler> would you like to update the readme a bit?
15:15:01  <Ammler> :-)
15:17:13  <Ammler> for the list, we point to the wiki
15:17:27  <Ammler> and the md5GRFIDlist
15:18:25  <Ammler> planetmaker: can you join current server with the pack?
15:18:48  <planetmaker> <-- readme?
15:19:58  <planetmaker> yes, I can join
15:21:23  <Ammler> did you change everything?
15:21:35  <planetmaker> what 'everything'?
15:21:43  <planetmaker> in the readme?
15:21:55  <planetmaker> No, but I rewrote a bit the paragraph about re-distribution
15:22:07  <Ammler> hmm, maybe s/GRF/NewGRF/g
15:23:19  <planetmaker> yes
15:23:59  <Ammler> I guess, we can also remove the part about other users
15:24:11  <Ammler> other servers
15:24:12  <planetmaker> you mean other servers?
15:24:24  <Ammler> yes
15:24:26  <planetmaker> yes. removed
15:24:55  <Ammler> also s/
15:25:10  <Ammler> as we might use bundles for it
15:25:15  <planetmaker> why?
15:25:27  <Ammler> what why?
15:25:31  <planetmaker> you mean direct ->
15:25:39  <planetmaker> I meant why use not www
15:26:08  <Ammler> well, the location might change from to
15:26:09  <planetmaker> No, I actually think that it should either directly give the download link or refer to the (general) web page
15:26:22  <planetmaker> yes, but we can link it in the wiki
15:28:45  <Ammler> we have no new grfs in yet?
15:30:16  <Ammler> then version 7.3 an 8.0 should work parallel
15:30:17  <planetmaker> Dunno, but I didn't add any recently
15:30:24  <Ammler> hmm
15:30:36  <planetmaker> the changelog should tell ;-)
15:30:37  <Ammler> maybe there are newer after the 7.3 release
15:31:33  <planetmaker>
15:31:45  * planetmaker like the ;-)
15:32:50  <planetmaker> though... if not the standard prefixes are used it might miss things...
15:33:16  <Ammler> I see non in the commit log
15:33:21  <Ammler> none*
15:33:57  <planetmaker>
15:34:02  <planetmaker> ^ full
15:34:23  <Ammler> the readme stills point to the HTML list
15:34:43  <Rubidium> might that be too-much-information?
15:34:43  <Ammler> should point to the wiki or the md5GRFIDlist
15:35:01  <Rubidium> and... so many different styles
15:35:31  <planetmaker> yes. Too many different styles.
15:35:38  <Rubidium> and... is it needed to mention each and every NewGRF? If so, mention the bananas NewGRFs explicitly too
15:35:58  <Rubidium> and... is the revision / issue number more important than the action data?
15:36:27  <planetmaker> Rubidium: that's not the changelog as it's bound to be shipped
15:36:33  <planetmaker> it's plain output from hg log
15:36:50  <planetmaker> unedited
15:37:10  <Ammler> you like to ship a changelog?
15:37:24  <planetmaker> didn't you?
15:37:39  <Ammler> only
15:37:49  <planetmaker> Though the changelog will be: delete <various newgrf>
15:37:55  <Ammler> we could move that to a txt file
15:38:05  <Ammler> and for version 8
15:38:29  <planetmaker> I don't mind either way actually.
15:38:31  <Ammler> - Deleted a bunch of newgrfs as available from BaNaNaS
15:39:06  <Ammler> - Changed VCS to Mercurial
15:39:32  <Ammler> - Still compatible with pack 7.3
15:39:56  <planetmaker> Probably
15:40:14  <planetmaker> then add that to the website :-)
15:40:17  <Ammler> - A lot Bugfixes to keep compatiblity with old savegames
15:40:42  <Ammler> 4 lines should be fine :-)
15:45:01  <Ammler> planetmaker: pls commit the readme changes
15:45:10  <planetmaker> then go for it and call it RC-1 for a start. I'll do so. yes
15:45:11  <Ammler> then I add the release
15:45:37  <planetmaker> I'll keep
15:46:10  <Ammler> yes
15:46:26  <Ammler> hmm, maybe a note about the bugtracker?
15:46:58  <planetmaker> hm. Maybe
15:48:12  <Ammler> fdupes is also happy:
15:48:27  <planetmaker> RC-1?
15:48:39  <Ammler> beta1 :-)
15:49:09  <Ammler> well, I don't care, then you need to run ./makeinfogrf 8.0-RC1
15:49:31  <planetmaker> pushed
15:50:12  <Brot6> #openttdcoop NewGRF package - Revision 242:12bd88c066aa: Doc: Update readme for 8.0-beta1 (planetmaker) @
15:52:08  <Ammler> You can find an HTML page included in this package providing you with an overview <-- still? :-)
15:53:35  <Ammler> I add a bananas list with newest versions only
15:55:14  <planetmaker> gah. Why didn't you tell before?
15:55:33  <planetmaker> well. Remove that then with your other preparatory commits :-)
15:57:40  <Ammler> [17:57] <Ammler> [17:34:23] the readme stills point to the HTML list
16:00:37  <planetmaker> :-) missed that, sorry
16:04:48  * planetmaker is off for a bit. Shopping
16:18:17  <Brot6> heqs: compile of r370 failed -
16:18:30  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r573), 32bpp-extra (r36), airportsplus (r52), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1074), fish (r386), grfcodec (r177), newgrf_makefile (r124), nforenum (r405), nml (r563), nutracks (r86), ogfxplus (r40), opengfx (r469), openmsx (r91), opensfx (r97), snowlinemod (r15), swedishrails (r140), worldairlinersset (r659)
16:18:43  <Brot6> 32bpp-extra: compile of r36 failed -
16:19:31  <planetmaker> ^ Ammler links are 404
16:19:57  <planetmaker> or ... only the heqs one
16:20:15  <Ammler> hmm
16:21:20  <Brot6> heqs: compile of r370 failed -
16:21:54  <Ammler> it doesn't build at all
16:22:36  <Ammler> Server returned an error: HTTP Error 400: Bad Request
16:22:43  <Ammler> OBS seems down
16:23:02  <Ammler> I might need to catch that error
16:28:30  <Brot6> heqs: compile of r370 failed -
16:35:35  <Brot6> heqs: compile of r370 failed -
16:36:53  <andythenorth> ^
16:37:07  <andythenorth> Ammler: I'd fix that, but I get a 404 so I don't know what the error is :P
16:37:17  <Ammler> :-P
16:37:41  <Ammler> the package repository isn't reachable
16:38:02  <Ammler> I should be able to run it "offline" then
16:38:54  <Brot6> heqs: compile of r370 failed -
16:39:33  <Ammler> andythenorth: why do you notice failed compiles so fast, if you didn't cause it
16:39:49  <andythenorth> just luck I guess :P
16:39:58  <Ammler> but you need hours and highlight to notice your own faults :-P
16:40:32  <andythenorth> everyone is blind to their own failures no?
16:40:41  <andythenorth> but we are acutely sensitive to the failures of others :P
16:40:46  <Ammler> easier life ;-)
16:48:51  <Brot6> heqs: compile of r370 failed -
16:49:14  <Ammler> something is broken
16:52:44  <Brot6> heqs: compile of r370 failed -
17:01:20  <Brot6> heqs: compile of r370 failed -
17:04:56  <Alberth> the bot repeats the last message too often :p
17:07:00  * andythenorth considers un-highilighting HEQS :P
17:17:02  <Ammler> sorry, something broke it, I have no idea, what
17:26:07  <Rubidium> out of memory?
17:27:38  <Ammler> no
17:27:51  <Ammler> something with --local-package
19:12:03  <Ammler> andythenorth: you don't need the nightly today?
19:51:41  *** Alberth has left #openttdcoop.devzone
20:52:36  <Ammler> I will investigate tomorrow, currently it isn't possible to build soemthing with local packages
21:38:06  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1124 (New): Setup RV offsets for Pikka templates (andythenorth) @
21:41:08  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1125 (New): Mining truck inspired by Mack Pack (andythenorth) @
21:41:08  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1126 (New): ADT (refittable to multiple cargos) (andythenorth) @
21:41:08  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1127 (New): Set purchase and running costs (andythenorth) @
21:45:14  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #1128 (New): Rename train vehicle type (Muzzy) @
22:04:17  *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
22:14:19  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 371:51ae7b43e9be: Change: amber beacons for rail mog (andythenorth) @
22:27:16  *** ODM has quit IRC
22:31:25  *** Webster has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
22:35:03  *** Guest1083 has quit IRC
22:44:48  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1129 (New): Remove Fourtrac (andythenorth) @
22:46:25  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1130 (New): Generic small and large tractors (andythenorth) @
23:09:37  <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Revision 106:8322045683d4: Feature: make script localizeable, use compiler.conf to... (Ammler) @
23:11:37  <Brot6> NFORenum - Revision 406:57d2f7fac4bf: Change: arch should depend on the building host (Ammler) @
23:13:52  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 178:043b8a913e09: Change: arch should depend on the building host (Ammler) @
23:58:28  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk