Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 20th August 2010:
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00:00:49  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
00:03:17  <Brot6> TTDViewer - Feature #1271 (New): file from console (Ammler) @
00:05:47  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
00:07:34  <Brot6> TTDViewer - Feature #1272 (New): build script (Ammler) @
01:09:38  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #839: 4737-4742: Fizzy drink factory (2006TTD) @
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06:04:34  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 142:b4e03615cc28: Fix #1070: GRFID was reported wrongly in documentation (planetmaker) @
06:04:34  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Bug #1070 (Closed): true grfID and reported grfID in documentation differ (planetmaker) @
06:06:27  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Bug #1273 (Confirmed): true grfID and reported grfID in documentation di... (planetmaker) @
07:13:20  *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
07:35:46  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 96:373750d86b12: Fix: fix #1122 (DJNekkid) @
07:35:46  <Brot6> Nutracks - Bug #1122 (Closed): re-definition of blank (DJNekkid) @
07:35:46  <Brot6> Nutracks - Bug #773 (Closed): renum errors (DJNekkid) @
07:37:36  <Brot6> Nutracks - Bug #865 (Closed): Track costs are inconsistent and exploitable (DJNekkid) @
07:53:00  * planetmaker needs action14 for NML ;-)
08:01:18  *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
08:07:43  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1216: Action 2 chains technically invalid for default indust... (andythenorth) @
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08:32:50  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1274 (New): regression: builds of Swedish Rails have no ingame effect... (planetmaker) @
08:37:51  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Revision 143:78ec9b88bbaf: Add #1223: Another variation of rail fences (planetmaker) @
08:43:00  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1263: Toyland Rough Land (2006TTD) @
08:44:14  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1255: Gumdrops (2006TTD) @
08:48:05  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #839: 4737-4742: Fizzy drink factory (2006TTD) @
08:49:22  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #839: 4737-4742: Fizzy drink factory (2006TTD) @
09:10:05  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1255: Gumdrops (planetmaker) @
09:58:18  <DJNekkid> does anyone have an opinion on bug 1270? Should i change the name or the flag?
09:59:23  <Alberth> split the bug, there are 2 issues in there
10:00:17  <DJNekkid> isnt it more a "either this or that"-thingy? :)
10:00:20  <Ammler> you might have enough french trains, but maybe no luxemburgish?
10:00:32  <DJNekkid> yup...
10:00:50  <Ammler> so I would make it a luxembourgish train :-)
10:00:58  <DJNekkid> so be it :D
10:02:31  <DJNekkid> tbh, i didnt think luxemburg were big enough to have any particular railtransport, and no need for doubledeckers...
10:07:07  * Rubidium tries to remember if he saw CFL non-doubledeckers
10:07:27  <DJNekkid> CFL ?
10:08:15  <Rubidium> the Luxembourgish rail company
10:08:28  <DJNekkid> aha :)
10:09:00  <Rubidium> there are definitely some German ICs and French TGV/Corail Luneas
10:09:41  <DJNekkid> in my head is luxemburg a flat piece of land with a GREAT palace in the middle, and a HUGE garden...
10:10:02  <DJNekkid> and in this palace there live some kind of king, along with a couple of thousend more or less royal people
10:10:05  <Rubidium> it's definitely not flat
10:10:07  <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 21:2b02b84de959: Add: Translation into traditional Chinese (by 2006TTD) (planetmaker) @
10:10:07  <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 22:1a02e3cf0d39: Change: Wrap readme and add translation credits (planetmaker) @
10:10:41  <DJNekkid> and they drink champagne and have all of they european royal friends visiting...
10:10:49  <DJNekkid> along with some prime ministers and such
10:11:35  <Rubidium> oh, they've got but ugly non-double decker EMUs and the standard (probably runs everywhere in France) doubledecker (at least in PACA)
10:12:09  <DJNekkid> didnt know there were half a million people living there...
10:12:39  <DJNekkid> trying to comprehend how large it is tho
10:12:46  <DJNekkid> 2500ish km2
10:13:08  <DJNekkid> my city is 450km2
10:13:15  <DJNekkid> so, about 5 times that
10:14:16  <Rubidium> DJNekkid: Bergen?
10:14:28  <Rubidium> or do I misremember?
10:14:43  <DJNekkid> I live in "Ålesund" :)
10:15:11  <DJNekkid> norways 9th (iirc) biggest city (by population)
10:15:21  <Rubidium> that muncipality is only 98 km2
10:16:25  <Rubidium> and the urban area is arguably much smaller than that
10:16:34  <DJNekkid> bah, i did read the dencity :)
10:17:23  <Rubidium> e.g. Bergen is 465 km2, but only 94 of those are urban
10:17:30  <DJNekkid> yea ..
10:18:29  <DJNekkid> "Sunnmøre" is about 2x the size of Luxemburg...
10:18:53  <DJNekkid> 5235km2
10:19:06  <DJNekkid> and we have about 133k ppl
10:19:26  <DJNekkid> so, 4x the population in 1/2 of the area
10:19:53  <DJNekkid> and we done even have trains here... hehe
10:19:59  <Rubidium> yeah, that sounds better in terms of scale
10:21:02  <DJNekkid> a somewhat large area then...
10:22:06  <DJNekkid> altho, i have a hope that we get HSTs within the next ... 20 years :)
10:22:30  <DJNekkid> there is a debate in norway theese days about building new rail lines inbetween the largest cities in norway
10:23:30  <Rubidium> in any case, the Luxembourgish double decker looks like the SNCF Z 24500 / Z 26500
10:23:43  <DJNekkid>
10:24:59  <Rubidium> that gives me the wikipedia equivalent of a 404
10:25:35  <DJNekkid> search for Norsk Bane then :)
10:25:46  <DJNekkid> (Norwegian Track)
10:26:16  <DJNekkid>
10:26:17  <Webster> Title: Norsk Bane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
10:26:30  <DJNekkid> guess its case sensitive
10:28:18  <Rubidium> hmm, 7:30 to 2:25, that seems like a reasonable speedup
10:28:36  <DJNekkid> dont you think? :)
10:29:13  <planetmaker> quite
10:29:14  <DJNekkid> "Bergensbanen" (Oslo - Bergen) probably takes the same time now as it did 60-70yrs ago
10:29:35  <planetmaker> They should add trains which transport cars, too.
10:29:42  <planetmaker> The roads are not that fast either
10:29:52  <DJNekkid> roads in norway = crap
10:30:00  <DJNekkid> appart from the oslo-area
10:30:03  <planetmaker> not crap. But very curvy ;-)
10:30:17  <planetmaker> but they're in quite reasonable condition
10:30:20  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1274: regression: builds of Swedish Rails have no ingame effect anymore (Hirundo) @
10:31:41  <DJNekkid> you know, its more expensive to build over-or-under then around :)
10:32:04  <DJNekkid> plus, LOTS and LOTS of the roads were built by the germans 60ish years ago
10:32:15  <DJNekkid> especially on the western parts of norway
10:34:20  <DJNekkid> btw planetmaker: do grfcodec/makefile have that "remove excessive blue"-thingy enabled?
10:35:32  <planetmaker> yes
10:35:51  <DJNekkid> oki :D
10:35:54  <planetmaker> Though it's a setting which can be changed in Makefile.config
10:36:03  <planetmaker> Dunno for your projects
10:37:06  <DJNekkid> me either :P
10:37:21  <DJNekkid> nutracks is the one that need it most tho
10:37:32  <DJNekkid> as thoose subways use 64x255 big pieces
10:51:43  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1274: regression: builds of Swedish Rails have no ingame effect anymore (planetmaker) @
10:54:32  <Ammler> DJNekkid: you might need bit6 (40) for sprites, which shouldn't be cropped, works fine in opengfx
10:55:08  <Rubidium> planetmaker: tried to diff both the working and non-working output?
10:55:17  <planetmaker> Rubidium: yes
10:55:28  <planetmaker> it's HUGE as it starts to differ from line 3 on
10:55:36  <planetmaker> As the first line really is action14
10:55:36  <Rubidium> ouch
10:55:49  <planetmaker> and as it contains sprite numbers...
10:56:20  <planetmaker> so the diff would have to first remove those :-)
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10:57:08  <Alberth> or replace with -1 ?
10:57:53  <planetmaker> or whatever, yes :-)
10:59:54  <Hirundo> Is the nml code and openttd version used the same?
11:00:28  <planetmaker> or by nothing
11:00:36  <Rubidium> planetmaker: got a miscompiled 0.5.0 grf?
11:00:39  <planetmaker> yes. both is 0.5.0 repo
11:00:48  <Rubidium> could I get that?
11:01:02  <planetmaker> Rubidium: obviously. Yes
11:01:45  <Rubidium> the diff betwen 0.5.0 and latest nightly is not that big if you chop out the not-so-important bits (sprite numbers and real sprite filename + offsets)
11:02:21  <planetmaker> I re-built the 0.5.0 source
11:02:47  <planetmaker> But that fails, too. As NML adds action14 the resulting grfs will differ
11:03:01  <planetmaker>
11:03:34  <Hirundo> When was 0.5.0 released?
11:03:39  <planetmaker> One would need to remove the german language file
11:03:47  <planetmaker> Hirundo: way before action14
11:04:38  <planetmaker> 4th July it seems
11:05:11  <Rubidium> the diff between 0.5.0-bad and last nightly is remarkably small
11:05:37  <Rubidium> action8/action14 differs and 4 other sprites
11:06:15  <Rubidium> <- that's 0.5.0 vs 0.5.0-bad
11:06:22  <Rubidium> 0.5.0 is from bundles
11:06:55  <Rubidium> for some reason it thinks it needs much less sprites now
11:07:52  <planetmaker> <-- differences
11:08:23  <planetmaker> ^ with openttd -d grf=9
11:08:41  <Rubidium> -u is probably better understandable
11:08:48  <planetmaker> Rubidium: that might be true. NML's logic was modified IIRC
11:09:29  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1274: regression: builds of Swedish Rails have no ingame effect anymore (planetmaker) @
11:09:45  <Hirundo> planetmaker: Can you paste a pre-processed nml file somewhere?
11:11:44  <planetmaker>
11:11:50  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1274: regression: builds of Swedish Rails have no ingame effect anymore (planetmaker) @
11:12:02  <Hirundo> thanks
11:12:31  <planetmaker> Hirundo: otherwise just get a checkout and hg up 0.5.0
11:13:37  <Ammler> hmm, do we need "rebuild" of releases :-)
11:14:14  <Rubidium> Ammler: this is a good reason why you wouldn't do that, even so it compiles fine but the result doesn't work as expected
11:14:28  <Ammler> wouldn't it diff?
11:14:28  <Rubidium> and that isn't something that you're not testing for when compiling it
11:15:19  <Rubidium> it'll maybe say that one binary file has changed
11:15:26  <planetmaker> Ammler: it will diff. It always will diff
11:15:40  <planetmaker> with perfect NML and perfect SE rails code
11:16:09  <planetmaker> Unless I'd remove the German language file. Having that already present, but unused in the previous release basically is what makes the difference
11:16:17  <planetmaker> As it now automatically gets used
11:16:36  <Brot6> swedishrails: compile of 0.5.0 failed -
11:16:42  <planetmaker> Quite nicely visible: the 'new' 0.5.0' announces itself in German, the old in English
11:16:51  <planetmaker> (if you have a German OpenTTD)
11:18:27  <Ammler> why doesn't it build?
11:18:27  <planetmaker> And also, if NML's code handling maths and conditions changes, the visible newgrf behaviour may be the same even though the actual code might differ. E.g. by introduction of new operators
11:18:32  <planetmaker> it does build
11:18:38  <Ammler> hmm
11:18:40  <planetmaker> it's a valid newgrf
11:18:56  <Alberth> not to mention the underlying python, and other programs
11:18:56  <planetmaker> just one without effect
11:19:31  <planetmaker> it's currently a bloated '#openttdcoop newgrf package' newgrf ;-)
11:19:48  <Brot6> swedishrails: compile of 0.5.0 failed -
11:19:59  <planetmaker> Rubidium: btw, what do you need the broken 0.5.0 for?
11:20:32  <Rubidium> to get the nfo diff between "good" and "bad"
11:20:49  <Rubidium> to see if there is something obvious, but I'm missing thtat obvious
11:21:37  <planetmaker> ok :-) I could have given you the nfo output directly ;-)
11:22:06  <Ammler> ah, maybe because of the switch to 11.3
11:22:56  <planetmaker> Ammler: it's not (only) the CF which fails there
11:23:24  <Ammler> I thought, you can build?
11:23:25  <planetmaker> which also shows that no-one used recent nightlies at all ;-)
11:23:41  <planetmaker> Ammler: yes. But newgrfs with no effect except a fancy name
11:24:00  <Ammler> yes, but the cf even can't build
11:24:01  <planetmaker> that's the hole point: an automatic build process doesn't detect this
11:24:07  <planetmaker> it can't? It did
11:24:25  <planetmaker> there are nightlies... they show the same as I get
11:25:18  <planetmaker> I don't know how you come to the conclusion that the CF didn't / doesn't build it
11:25:29  <Ammler> + make -j1 bundle_zip bundle_src 'ZIP=7za a' 'ZIP_FLAGS=-tzip -mx9'
11:25:31  <Ammler> error: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.iwNgBv (%build)
11:26:14  <planetmaker> but there's nightly r141
11:28:03  <Ammler> yes, but it can't build the release anymore, it seems
11:29:17  <planetmaker> ah
11:31:06  <Ammler> I see
11:31:20  <Ammler> the issue was in effect there
11:32:21  <planetmaker> yes, I had to change my Makefile.local. Forgot that ;-)
11:34:20  <Ammler> so this error wouldn't even be noticed, if you would run a grf through openttd?
11:35:25  <Ammler> I mean, testing a grf with openttd and grepping the output log wouldn't be that hard
11:37:57  <Ammler> oh, and btw. tested the missing file issue without dep check, it does announce the missing file, but it does also build the grf
11:38:08  <Ammler> so the dep check is indeed necessary
11:39:06  <Hirundo> The generated actionD/action9 smells to me
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11:43:14  <planetmaker> Ammler: yes, I know :-)
11:43:39  <planetmaker> but good that both of us know now :-)
11:48:33  <Ammler> oh, you knew :-P
11:48:49  <planetmaker> I tried to tell you, but I obviously failed to communicate that
11:51:12  * DJNekkid facepalms
11:57:19  *** Yexo has quit IRC
11:57:44  <andythenorth> quak
11:58:36  <frosch123> moin :)
12:02:07  <planetmaker> quak :-)
12:03:24  <andythenorth> no foobar?
12:03:25  <andythenorth> meh
12:03:50  <andythenorth> I bounced some stuff from FIRS 0.4, thinking of going for a release soon
12:36:49  <planetmaker> andythenorth: make[1]: *** No rule to make target `sprites/nfo/industries/watertower.pnfo', needed by `sprites/nfo/firs.pnfo'.  Stop.
12:47:12  <planetmaker> Alberth: you prepared a dep check python script some time ago
12:47:17  <planetmaker> That has some issues
12:47:33  <planetmaker> Try it on current FIRS.
12:48:36  <planetmaker> <-- that one
12:48:41  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Code Review #1178: Make dependency checking optional (planetmaker) @
12:50:04  <planetmaker> it fails to list the watertower.pnfo as dependency
12:50:16  <planetmaker> (but watertower.pnfo actually does NOT exist)
12:51:41  <Rubidium> planetmaker: I don't understand that. It says it has no rule to make watertower.pnfo, then it must be listed as dependency, otherwise make wouldn't try to execute the watertower.pnfo target
12:52:10  <planetmaker> Rubidium: yes
12:52:20  <planetmaker> The error message I posted is with the current dep check
12:52:30  <planetmaker> But I don't get it with the python dep check
12:52:39  <Rubidium> ah, okay
12:53:40  <Alberth> why is that a problem?  it will fail with the build
12:53:57  <planetmaker> Alberth: know which file is missing is IMHO a big value
12:54:17  <planetmaker> and watertower.pnfo IS a dependency
12:54:23  <planetmaker> just one which is missing
12:54:31  <Alberth> oh, it does not say that?
12:54:36  <planetmaker> exactly
12:55:31  <Alberth> how useful :p
12:55:37  <planetmaker> :-)
12:55:45  <planetmaker> But that's why we have this check in the first place
12:56:01  <planetmaker> Because a nd d and f like to forget to add certain files ;-)
12:56:36  * Alberth does that too :)
12:56:58  <planetmaker> ok: a and d and f and p and a :-)
12:59:56  <Alberth> my Makefile.dep states that the dependency
13:00:02  <Alberth> freshly built
13:00:05  <planetmaker> hm
13:00:21  <planetmaker> with the diff like I linked?
13:00:41  <Alberth> yep
13:01:04  <Alberth> look for 'watertower'
13:01:51  <planetmaker> well. That's what I did and do
13:02:11  <planetmaker> which FIRS version?
13:02:38  <Alberth> oh, my dep checking has the wrong setting
13:02:43  <planetmaker> :-)
13:02:55  <planetmaker> I specify it via command line for testing
13:03:08  <planetmaker> DEP_CHECK_TYPE=mdep
13:04:24  <Alberth> I just hacked the makefile, less chance to forget it again :)
13:06:06  <planetmaker> Alberth: change Makefile.def or Makefile.local
13:06:23  <Alberth> .def
13:06:37  <planetmaker> both works :-)
13:06:49  <planetmaker> .local would be proper as that's not part of the repo
13:11:30  <planetmaker> and... it seems it writes deps twice:
13:11:42  <planetmaker> partially that is
13:12:00  <Alberth> ?
13:12:55  <Alberth> oh, you mean that lines 1..27 all have the same target?  that is intentional. Is that a problem?
13:13:06  <planetmaker> it's not a problem
13:13:14  <planetmaker> But I wonder(ed)
13:13:24  <planetmaker> actually I wonder about line 2
13:13:38  <planetmaker> which is repeated by all? other lines
13:13:42  <planetmaker> piece by piece
13:13:48  <planetmaker> except the firs.pnfo dep in line 2
13:14:32  <Alberth> nice observation
13:15:04  <Alberth> I just fixed that circular dependency thing, but I guess it is a bigger problem
13:15:22  <Alberth> perhaps simply throw everything in one line
13:15:30  <planetmaker> that would be ok
13:15:59  <planetmaker> the other way it can be seen: remove the pnfo dependency from all other lines. the pcx dependency is needed and not repeated
13:16:47  <planetmaker> however, the python script gives me about 33% speedup to the current solution
13:17:00  <planetmaker> So I think I'd make it default when it works
13:17:43  <Rubidium> maybe check for the existance of python before setting the "default"
13:18:02  <Alberth> the whole multiple starting directory stuff complicates it quite a lot
13:18:02  <planetmaker> FIRS needs it anyway
13:18:13  <Alberth> Rubidium: you have hg already
13:18:24  <Ammler> no with source package
13:18:28  <planetmaker> Alberth: you changed the rules from %.grf: %.nfo to include dirs. Why?
13:18:36  <planetmaker> Just let the default rules find the correct dir
13:19:23  <Rubidium> Alberth: I do, but e.g. Debian's OpenGFX packaging doesn't and as this is bound to end up in the makefile template stuff, it'll end up in OpenGFX as well and cause issues with OpenGFX compilation on downstream
13:19:35  <Rubidium> by adding a more or less unneeded dependency
13:19:49  <Alberth> good point
13:19:50  <Ammler> msx does have it already
13:20:10  <Rubidium> yes, but msx uses python in the actual packaging quite extensively
13:20:35  <Alberth> can you run the current dep-check without python?
13:20:38  <planetmaker> as does FIRS. But it's a good point to keep both ways in the generic makefile
13:20:51  <planetmaker> Alberth: the current dep check doesn't need hg
13:21:11  <planetmaker> it's purely bash / make
13:21:19  <Alberth> good
13:21:31  <planetmaker> Though it needs a few variables defined. Those are added to Makefile.dep upon packaging the source bundles
13:21:41  <planetmaker> *Makefile.def
13:23:03  <Ammler> well, if a python alternative would make the Makefile working again in windows, it would be worth a dependency
13:23:37  <Ammler> that is IMO a serious lack of current Makefile
13:24:16  <Rubidium> Ammler: that is why I said, paraphrased: "make it use the python variant if python is available, otherwise use the old makefile only variant"
13:24:47  <Ammler> Rubidium: the problem is the work to keep both working and supporting
13:25:29  <planetmaker> that's a backdraw, yes
13:25:31  <Ammler> just not sure, if it is worth, as adding python as BuildRequire takes me no effort as packager
13:25:36  * Alberth ponders use of gcc -M
13:25:59  <planetmaker> -M?
13:26:09  <Alberth> compute dependencies
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13:26:30  <Rubidium> Ammler: but if you go to python, isn't it way faster to just use a python program for the whole make process?
13:26:41  <planetmaker> Alberth: the problem is to teach cpp the nfo dependencies for image files
13:26:44  <Ammler> that would rock :-)
13:26:54  <planetmaker> and also some of the peculiar way templates are included
13:27:02  <Ammler> nmlb
13:27:05  <planetmaker> though that could work
13:27:20  <Alberth> hmm, true, that image files not not work
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13:27:28  <Alberth> s/not/will/
13:27:29  <planetmaker> Ammler: but if you go to python, isn't it way faster to just use a python program for the whole make process? <-- probably
13:27:59  <planetmaker> Question is: do we want that?
13:28:08  <Ammler> I mean, we still miss miss loops for repeating things or proper substitutes
13:28:12  <Alberth> hardly, time is spent in gcc and grfcodec
13:28:37  <Alberth> #define not enough?
13:29:05  <Ammler> Alberth: that does only work for <space>VAR<space> afaik
13:29:17  <Rubidium> even so... does NML require preprocessing?
13:29:28  <Ammler> yes, yet
13:29:32  <Ammler> for #includes
13:29:36  <planetmaker> Rubidium: yes
13:29:38  <Alberth> #define X(n)    also exists
13:29:51  <planetmaker> that's why the makefiles support also NML ;-)
13:30:07  <planetmaker> NML doesn't natively parse things like #define and #include
13:30:18  <Alberth> yet :)
13:30:22  <planetmaker> it basically relies on the gcc pre-processor
13:30:25  <Rubidium> hmm, so you always need gcc
13:30:32  <Ammler> yet :-P
13:30:38  <planetmaker> :-)
13:30:39  <Rubidium> so migrating to nml isn't an option yet
13:30:53  <Alberth> #include is buildable
13:31:06  <Alberth> #define is more work, but could be done too
13:31:21  <planetmaker> depends upon how difficult the define is, I think
13:31:41  <Ammler> Alberth: or 2 sep processes, first run nmlb(uild), then nmlc
13:31:44  <planetmaker> though... I think the current OpenGFX+ airport is making use of quite sophisticated macros
13:31:59  <planetmaker> blame Yexo for showing me how ;-)
13:32:15  <Alberth> a proper templatish language beats #define any day, I think
13:32:24  <planetmaker> it does
13:32:32  <Alberth> eg you have error reporting :)
13:32:47  <planetmaker> Still, I use it to template some frequently used things, even in NML code
13:32:55  <Ammler> as yexo started nml, we discussed about using a existing template engine
13:33:00  <Ammler> before*
13:33:51  <Alberth> I'd use m4 probably
13:34:34  * andythenorth wonders about....nah
13:34:37  <andythenorth> not a good idea
13:34:40  <Ammler> you think m4nfo is good readable?
13:35:00  <Alberth> and I would expect Python to have templatish stuff ready for use, tbh
13:35:09  <planetmaker> :-)
13:35:22  * andythenorth doesn't like the look of m4
13:35:26  <Alberth> no idea, but it is better than plain nfo, and less better than nml, I think
13:35:32  <andythenorth> I use this every day, have been for years:
13:35:33  <Webster> Title: Template Attribute Language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
13:35:37  <andythenorth> sadly html specific
13:35:53  <andythenorth> before being shown cpp, I thought of using it for my sets
13:36:32  <Ammler> <-- openmsx build btw. on every rpm distro except the very old RHEL4 and SLES9 with simple adding python as buildrequire
13:36:39  <Alberth> oh, there are only 3 python versions :)
13:36:47  <planetmaker> :-)
13:43:34  * planetmaker installs scons
13:51:13  *** Seberoth2 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
13:52:16  * planetmaker had already scons installed :-P
13:55:42  <Alberth> ok for mdep to drop dead when files are missing?
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13:58:32  <Ammler> does that exit make?
13:59:24  <Alberth> I would suggest it does
14:01:46  <DJNekkid> and bam! the 2cc set cant be used with 1.0.x :)
14:03:34  <Ammler> Alberth: yes, it should
14:03:34  <planetmaker> Alberth: hm... it's ok, when it notifies us about the filename
14:03:44  <Ammler> that is the issue, if you don't use a dep check
14:03:59  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: what triggered that?
14:06:54  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 582:c9891e798f98: Add: speed-unit-sensitive wagon texts (DJNekkid) @
14:07:08  <DJNekkid> ^^
14:08:39  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #1030 (Closed): use textstack for 'design speed' (DJNekkid) @
14:10:05  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: if that were awnser enough
14:10:28  <DJNekkid> and if you didnt see it, check issue 1230, thats a thing of beauty!
14:11:15  <DJNekkid> altho, im wondering if voyager1 might overdo the shade on the "backside" (i.e. not sunny side) abit too much
14:14:36  <planetmaker> ah, I see :-)
14:16:22  <DJNekkid> almost getting close to a beta4 :
14:16:23  <DJNekkid> :)
14:16:29  <planetmaker> :-)
14:18:53  <Ammler> DJNekkid: maybe you like to ask how make the release before you do the release :-)
14:24:44  <Alberth> planetmaker: how does the makefile not need hg?  VPATH uses REPO_DIRS, which uses REPO_FILES, which uses REPO_FILES_CMD which uses HG
14:25:01  <DJNekkid> Ammler: that were also the plan :p
14:25:17  <DJNekkid> but iirc: hg tag <something proper this time> && hg push
14:26:30  <Ammler> not just beta4 :-)
14:28:57  <planetmaker> Alberth: I define those variables during packaging the tar ball
14:29:43  <Alberth> ok, so how does the makefile then find all those files relative to other than cwd ?
14:30:12  <planetmaker> I basically write into those variables what I have during bundling
14:30:17  <planetmaker> and then I undefine hg
14:30:23  <planetmaker> so they're not re-defined
14:32:00  <planetmaker> Alberth: <-- those things are in Makefile.local for source bundles
14:32:22  <planetmaker> That is HG is undefined. And VPATH,... are as I found it in my source repo from which I created the bundle
14:32:32  <planetmaker> All paths are relative, and as such it works
14:32:48  <Alberth> I was not discussing bundles
14:33:30  <planetmaker> but?
14:34:09  <planetmaker> [16:29]	<Alberth>	ok, so how does the makefile then find all those files relative to other than cwd ? <-- I don't quite get that question. 'cwd'=?
14:34:26  <Alberth> current working directory, ie root of FIRS repo
14:34:36  <planetmaker> yep
14:34:38  <Alberth> unless you do 'cd' somewhere
14:34:46  <planetmaker> ah
14:34:51  <planetmaker> VPATH
14:35:26  <planetmaker> call make test and you see the long list VPATH has
14:35:50  <planetmaker> it basically contains all dirs of the repo
14:36:09  <Alberth> yes from REPO_DIRS -> REPO_FILES -> REPO_FILES_CMD -> HG ?
14:36:09  <planetmaker> it is the same as $(REPO_DIRS)
14:36:42  <planetmaker> make searches for a missing file in every dir mentioned in VPATH
14:36:54  <planetmaker> as such I don't need to give relative paths
14:37:03  <Alberth> I know, but how does it get those list?
14:37:17  <planetmaker> in a repo: via the hg commands
14:37:17  <Alberth> without making bundles and such
14:37:25  <Alberth> without hg ?
14:37:36  <planetmaker> if you have a tar ball: it's defined in your Makefile.local which you'll get
14:37:49  <Alberth> I just have a clean FIRS checkout
14:37:58  <planetmaker> then you have hg
14:38:16  <Alberth> ah
14:38:21  <planetmaker> you either have hg or you have a tar ball :-)
14:38:51  <Brot6> NFORenum - Revision 471:a556674805ba: Fix: UPX-ing of release binaries failed. Patch by glx. (Rubidium) @
14:39:12  <Alberth> so I need to process a list of dirs, it seems
14:40:47  <Alberth> hmm, that was way simpler than anticipated, just add ".split()" somewhere :)
14:44:14  <planetmaker> :-)
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15:00:32  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 583:41d7fd00307b: Add: #1230 (DJNekkid) @
15:04:19  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #1268 (Closed): add a voyager1-DMU :D (DJNekkid) @
15:07:38  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #971 (Closed): Enable nutracks rail types natively (DJNekkid) @
15:07:38  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #145 (Closed): Redo (all) (cargo) wagons (DJNekkid) @
15:48:03  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 584:72dd2ce2f9a6: Add: Luxemburg flag to the flag-file (DJNekkid) @
15:48:03  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 585:3d2fc699a3d5: Fix: Lux' flag to the Class 2200. Close #1270 (DJNekkid) @
15:48:03  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #1270 (Closed): wrong flag for EMU class 2200 (DJNekkid) @
15:49:52  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #1044 (Closed): railbus 479 can be bought in non-electric depot (DJNekkid) @
15:50:21  <Rubidium> is that 2200 in company colours blue?
15:56:00  <DJNekkid> 1st cc yes?
15:56:10  <Rubidium> good :)
15:56:20  <Rubidium> otherwise I would've claimed that it should be done in red
15:56:31  <DJNekkid> or, i dunno if its 1st or 2nd cc, but its CC :D
16:01:37  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: what are 'gellow-tops'?
16:02:01  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Code Review #1178: Make dependency checking optional (Alberth) @
16:06:28  <DJNekkid> you know, small pices of gellow coated with sugar, that you can decorate a cake with :)
16:08:36  <planetmaker> My dictionary doesn't know 'gellow' :-P
16:09:12  <DJNekkid> ehm
16:10:04  <DJNekkid>
16:10:09  <DJNekkid> that is a "gele-topp" :)
16:10:51  <DJNekkid> freely translated to gellow :)
16:12:32  <planetmaker> ah
16:12:40  <DJNekkid> -tops :)
16:17:51  <planetmaker> Alberth: what's the issue with the 'surrounding makefile'?
16:20:22  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: update from r575 to r585 done (48 errors) -
16:20:56  <Brot6> firs: compile of r1234 failed -
16:21:21  <planetmaker> that was fore-seeable
16:22:24  <Brot6> nforenum: update from r470 to r471 done -
16:23:11  <Brot6> nutracks: update from r95 to r96 done -
16:24:17  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r493 to r497 done (3 errors) -
16:24:42  <Brot6> snowlinemod: update from r19 to r22 done -
16:25:18  <Brot6> swedishrails: update from r141 to r143 done -
16:25:20  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 32bpp-extra (r38), airportsplus (r52), basecosts (r20), comic-houses (r71), fish (r386), grfcodec (r228), heqs (r371), metrotrackset (r56), newgrf_makefile (r128), nml (r672), ogfxplus (r41), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), transrapidtrackset (r15), worldairlinersset (r659)
16:25:22  <Rubidium> white pixels in opengfx? Who did that?
16:27:09  <Ammler> that smells for the fizzy-drink fac
16:27:10  <planetmaker> It's the fizzy drinks factory
16:28:28  <Brot6> firs: compile of r1234 failed -
16:32:44  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: 2cctrainset (48 errors), 32bpp-extra (1 errors) (Diffsize: 13), airportsplus (Diffsize: 13), basecosts (Diffsize: 11), comic-houses (3 errors) (Diffsize: 13), fish (6 errors) (Diffsize: 13), heqs (Diffsize: 13), metrotrackset, newgrf_makefile, transrapidtrackset (Diffsize: 11), worldairlinersset (Diffsize: 13)
16:47:48  <Alberth> planetmaker:
16:48:23  <planetmaker> two of those files are supposed to be missing
16:48:35  <planetmaker> there are special rules for them
16:48:41  * Alberth nods
16:48:50  <Alberth> but you don't get a Makefile.dep
16:48:56  <planetmaker> Actually, I commented out that part of the python script and it works
16:49:03  <Alberth> so you can never build them
16:49:03  <planetmaker> the 3rd file is indeed missing
16:49:16  <planetmaker> Make will fail then when building
16:49:23  <planetmaker> which is fine
16:49:56  <Brot6> Autopilot - Revision 82:506bc7916258: Change: content_download to ignore (Ammler) @
16:49:56  <Brot6> Autopilot - Revision 83:cdb08a5b51b7: Feature: add possibility to add values with "=", so we can ... (Ammler) @
16:50:51  <Alberth> no you don't understand, you cannot build the other 2 dependencies, as the Makefile.dep target fails
16:51:56  <planetmaker> It won't fail, if I tell the python script to not fail
16:52:07  <planetmaker> I removed the error output
16:52:17  <planetmaker> It will always return
16:52:27  <Alberth> ah, ok, then it will work
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17:06:57  <Brot6> Autopilot - Revision 84:291b51f5d8d5: Feature: configurable endargs to the command (Ammler) @
17:09:29  <planetmaker> hg rebase is nice :-P
17:10:01  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 129:8a31de1c0292: Add #1178: Alternative dependency check imple... (planetmaker) @
17:11:54  <Alberth> I tried it once, but it did not really work as intended
17:12:05  <Alberth> I'll have to try it again some time
17:12:44  <planetmaker> hg rebase --source XXX --dest YYY where XXX is the thing to move to child of YYY
17:14:08  <Alberth> and XXX can be longer than a single revision?
17:14:12  <Ammler> redmine might get confused about the dates :-)
17:15:30  <Alberth> planetmaker: you seem to have lost the 'depend' target
17:15:32  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Feature #604 (Rejected): Feature: include template usuage (planetmaker) @
17:16:00  <Alberth> also the line with >> $(MAKEFILE_DEP)  is also useful in the other dep check
17:17:09  <planetmaker> XXX must be the first revision to move. Its children will be moved, too
17:17:22  *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone
17:17:24  <planetmaker> Uhm... depend is lost...
17:17:26  *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
17:17:44  <andythenorth> evening
17:17:53  <Alberth> evenink
17:18:15  <planetmaker> oddink :-P
17:18:52  <andythenorth> binkdink
17:21:00  <planetmaker> Alberth: which line with >>$(MAKEFILE_DEP)?
17:21:52  <planetmaker> I have here like... 4 on the screen
17:22:55  <Alberth> hmm, further improvement is possible, one moment
17:25:02  <planetmaker> most of all I shouldn't talk of firs in other project makefiles :-P
17:25:16  <Alberth>
17:29:05  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #743 (Closed): New Tracks - Proposal (DJNekkid) @
17:29:45  <planetmaker> ah
17:30:04  <planetmaker> looks good :-)
17:31:19  <Alberth> it saves a dozen or so processes :)
17:31:49  <andythenorth> FIRS seems to demand a lot of tool maintenance :)
17:32:19  <Alberth> nice grfs need nice tools :)
17:34:03  <Alberth> and given the number of times that make is run in a day, maintenance is not that big :)
17:34:58  <Alberth> these tools are just a lengthy process as everything has to be correct down to the last bit
17:35:03  <planetmaker> :-)
17:36:20  <Alberth> at work, I spend a few weeks on our automagic build system every 3-4 years, but it means my collegues and myself do not have to remember how to build our code in the other weeks
17:37:11  <planetmaker> :-)
17:37:50  <planetmaker> that's probably good... Fire and forget build system
17:38:00  <planetmaker> I fear this one needs more frequent updates
17:38:59  <Alberth> it should become simpler, I think. The setup seems very complex for what its function.
17:39:08  <Alberth> s/what//
17:39:51  <planetmaker> yes
17:40:36  <planetmaker> One reason is that it serves a number of different purposes: multiple newgrfs in one project (=OpenGFX), OpenSFX, normal newgrf in both NML and NFO
17:41:15  <planetmaker> It would simplify, if I skipped the base sets, I guess
17:41:21  <Alberth> you also combine nfo and nml?
17:41:29  <planetmaker> And if I made NML and NFO separate
17:41:42  <planetmaker> a project is (currently) either NML or NFO
17:41:55  <planetmaker> but the makefile caters for both types
17:42:15  <Alberth> you could even make a dedicated makefile for each type of project, perhaps with sharing some common code in a 2nd makefile, although I wonder how much that is
17:42:16  <planetmaker> the only difference really is the build rule for the newgrf
17:42:29  <planetmaker> well. Basically it is that way
17:42:35  <Alberth> those could be combined probably then
17:42:40  <planetmaker> E.g. makefile.bundles is the same for everything
17:43:08  <planetmaker> as the results are very similar
17:43:44  <planetmaker> And the rest of the complexity... well. Makefile.config and Makefile.def are just defining everything. Making it configurable
17:43:58  <planetmaker> the "real" makefiles are Makefile and Makefile.common
17:45:01  <planetmaker> But indeed, I thought of how to make it easier to maintain. And using separate Makefiles for different projects might make sense
17:45:20  <Alberth> I'd probably move all the settings to the top of makefile, and let the project change those
17:45:24  <planetmaker> like Makefile.nfo for nfo projects with their specifics (build + dep) Makefile.nml for NML etc
17:45:42  <planetmaker> Well. Makefile.config is that :-)
17:45:51  <planetmaker> That's what the project must edit and adjust
17:45:56  <planetmaker> In principle only that file
17:46:20  <planetmaker> And if it wants to do fancy stuff: there are hooks possible via
17:46:43  <Alberth> hmm, perhaps my perspective is a bit blurred, as I had to dig through all makefiles to find things :)
17:47:01  <planetmaker> well. Writing the Makefile is something different :-)
17:47:28  <planetmaker> I guess one step for the future really is to make a separate file for each project type
17:47:41  <planetmaker> then things will look much cleaner
17:47:59  <Alberth> and drop the advanced things, I think.
17:48:15  <planetmaker> yes, some are never or very rarely used
17:48:28  <Alberth> projects can always add them if they want/need it
17:49:34  <Alberth> otherwise you'll end up with a makefile plugin system :p
17:50:56  <planetmaker> :-P
17:51:42  <planetmaker> Well... there's been mostly one person who wrote that: myself. An then I needed something where I could just copy the Makefile(system) to all projects for very easy update. Just leaving out their config file
17:52:06  <planetmaker> That was one of the drivers to make it so universal: save work for me :-)
17:52:21  <planetmaker> might have gone a bit too far meanwhile in some parts
17:52:29  <planetmaker> reversing the effect
17:53:29  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 130:d7c364feed61: Fix (r129): Use generic filenames. Not hardco... (planetmaker) @
17:53:29  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 131:0f6c7a0da5ce: Change: Speed-up parts of the dep check a bit... (planetmaker) @
18:01:23  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 132:4345d1acc0ad: Fix: A few phony targets were not declared as... (planetmaker) @
18:17:41  * andythenorth wonders......where might foobar be? :)
18:17:55  <Rubidium> planetmaker might get a world first today :)
18:18:05  <planetmaker> uh?
18:18:11  <Rubidium> the world's first NewGRF with a Belarusian translation
18:18:17  <planetmaker> :-D
18:19:12  <planetmaker> let's do that :-)
18:27:59  <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 23:733dd8c56f05: Add: Russian and Belarusian translations (by Wowanxm) (planetmaker) @
18:37:17  <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 24:a56a6643cfcb: Fix (r23): Copy & paste is a difficult business (planetmaker) @
18:37:48  <Rubidium> and now it's misaligned! :(
18:39:11  <planetmaker> not anymore :-P
18:39:40  <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 25:474390109bcf: Fix (r24): Copy & paste is a really really difficult bus... (planetmaker) @
18:40:01  <Rubidium> also... the credits occasionally use a comma after the language
18:40:09  <Rubidium> but definitely not consistently
18:50:10  <Rubidium> parameter 0/1 can be considered as "unclear"
18:53:11  <planetmaker> very true. Thank you
18:54:29  <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 26:0fe1144611b8: Change: Allow pre-processing of the readme (planetmaker) @
18:58:20  <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 27:1bbaccb4ae74: Fix: Parameter numbers start at one. Address also some m... (planetmaker) @
19:01:56  <planetmaker> hm. How long do I wait with a release for this newgrf?
19:02:08  <planetmaker> Obviously it paid off to wait at least till today
19:02:58  <planetmaker> But I'm quite positively surprised at the response I got for the translation :-)
19:03:47  <Rubidium> until Belarusian is in stable?
19:04:00  <planetmaker> Sunday?
19:08:00  <planetmaker> I wonder... why has Belarusian the lang-ID 10 but is not in stable?
19:08:29  <Rubidium> because lang IDs are handed out "randomly"
19:08:58  <Rubidium> where "randomly" means: Currently, the scheme is to use international phone codes as language IDs, unless they're out of range, in which case pick a number vaguely related in some way. Or something else.
19:10:30  <Rubidium> as international phone codes starting with a 1 are US and with a 2 are either 20, 27 or in the 200 range... I'm just filling stuff from the front of the list now
19:11:07  <Rubidium> oh, and no international phone codes start with a 0 :)
19:11:39  <planetmaker> :-)
19:12:09  <Rubidium> after that the 7 range is "good" (7 = russia)
19:13:20  <planetmaker> yeah :-)
19:13:40  <planetmaker> accidentially I know Russian and Belarusian codes for the next 24 hours or so :-)
19:13:56  <Rubidium> although I guess filling them from the front isn't a big issue either
19:14:33  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1235:df3175fa3f76: Fix (r1204): Allow to be used with LV4 (foobar) @
19:21:59  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 498:cfb60a5aa768: Fix #906: Revised livery for Millenium Z1 monorail engine (planetmaker) @
19:21:59  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #906 (Closed): livery mismatch Millenium and PAX/Mail wagons (planetmaker) @
19:23:26  <Rubidium> why does 662 still show up as open related issue on the roadmap (ogfx)?
19:24:12  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1236:46f450a47bf2: Fix (r1230): water tower ran dry (foobar) @
19:24:37  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1269: alternative "missing sprite" sprite (Rubidium) @
19:24:48  <planetmaker> because no-one closed it yet :-)
19:25:16  <Rubidium> same for 883?
19:25:43  <planetmaker> 662 became 'close-able' only 5 seconds before you asked
19:25:51  <planetmaker> it was blocked by my last OpenGFX commit
19:27:14  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #662 (Closed): Rework trains (planetmaker) @
19:27:21  <planetmaker> yes. 883 seems like a close-candidate, too. Ammler ?
19:29:57  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #321 (Closed): Monorails clipping tunnels (planetmaker) @
19:30:41  <Rubidium> 1269 "feels" as a close-candidate as well
19:31:47  <Rubidium> is it me or are 862 and 781 related?
19:36:10  <Ammler> #883 lacks docs and template fixing...
19:36:11  <planetmaker> that's different sprites.
19:36:25  <planetmaker> But they probably have similar solutions
19:36:54  <planetmaker> But farm hedges slope a bit wrongly (IMHO) which fences don't. They're 'just' a bit too short
19:37:52  <planetmaker> can you fix #883, Ammler ?
19:38:16  <Ammler> yes, should be doable
19:38:20  <Ammler> :-)
19:38:33  <Ammler> you like to make the release this weekend?
19:39:03  <planetmaker> not necessarily.
19:39:08  <planetmaker> But we're getting close
19:39:17  <planetmaker> And we might as well
19:39:30  <planetmaker> Depends a bit on how much work there'll be next week
19:39:37  <planetmaker> work in RL that is
19:40:45  <planetmaker> hm, and I think a release cycle like "release prior to the yearly major OpenTTD release and otherwise when needed" sounds what works best for this set
19:41:36  <Rubidium> yep
19:41:42  <planetmaker> Rubidium: when we should have one major release (or two), those should be prior to the first beta and the stable, right?
19:42:35  <Rubidium> the first would at least be a date to push the new/extra sprites and the second would be more a bugfix release
19:43:31  <planetmaker> right. So mid December or so
19:43:36  <planetmaker> is the important date
19:44:40  <planetmaker> hm... Fizzy drink animation. Does it ever stop to pour drinks?
19:46:15  <planetmaker> hm, no
19:47:04  <planetmaker> Hm... I'm not happy with alignment
19:48:20  <planetmaker> But I'm quite happy with the colours of the cans ;-)
19:50:38  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 499:a4311236155a: Fix: White pixels in the fizzy drink factory (planetmaker) @
19:51:01  <planetmaker> r500, we're coming :-)
19:51:07  <Rubidium> now something somewhat related, but totally unrelated on the other hand... how to visualise "objects" in a button and a cursor as well as how to visualise a missing object (like the ugly coal mine sprites when an industry newgrf is missing)?
19:51:44  <Ammler> why does it matter to release with openttd?
19:51:46  <Rubidium> using the transmitter or lighthouse buttons seems wrong as it'd be difficult to distinguish them from the "plant" objects
19:52:04  <Ammler> I thought, we had that discussion already :-)
19:52:32  <planetmaker> Rubidium: I'm not sure... you talk about how the cursor looks like when ... what exactly?
19:52:44  <Ammler> I would rather say it is bad to release before openttd
19:52:54  <Rubidium> Ammler: if the latest OpenGFX misses sprites, releasing it 2 weeks after OpenTTD stable will get you a lot of questions
19:53:14  <planetmaker> Ammler: before OpenTTD :-)
19:53:31  <planetmaker> We did it. It worked well.
19:53:37  <Rubidium> planetmaker: newobject objects, the toolbar button and build cursor (like depot button and depot cursor)
19:53:41  <Ammler> yes, so what?
19:54:30  <planetmaker> Rubidium: a combination sprite maybe: Light house + Transmitter
19:54:38  <planetmaker> like oblique in the diagonal
19:54:49  <planetmaker> Not sure whether it shows, though. Sprites are small...
19:54:59  <Ammler> well, we can then start with making "major" releases and hope all goes well...
19:55:16  <planetmaker> Ammler: yes. For changes we have the minor ones
19:55:20  <Rubidium> planetmaker: that'd be confusing, especially as the light house and transmitter buttons will remain to be used
19:55:24  <Ammler> you don't get me...
19:55:36  <Alberth> Ammler:  there is a large peak of downloads with a OpenTTD release, it would be a waste of bandwidth to give them an old gfx version
19:55:43  <planetmaker> ^
19:55:50  <Ammler> we don't release those many bugfixes, because openttd doesn't make a release is a bad idea, imo.
19:56:07  * Rubidium smells a "major" vs "minor" release desync
19:56:16  <planetmaker> Ammler: for the reason Alberth mentioned it makes sense to get a release out then
19:56:24  <planetmaker> But back to fruitful things: sprites...
19:57:00  <Ammler> Alberth: if that is an issue, I sponsor the traffic :-)
19:57:43  <planetmaker> Rubidium: transmitter, light house,... they'll be part of the NewObjects toolbar, I'd say. So why could the button which opens it not have a combination of both on them?
19:57:46  <Rubidium> Ammler: making a release before the OpenTTD beta and stable doesn't imply you can't make any releases between the stable and beta
19:57:54  <planetmaker> ^
19:57:55  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1275 (New): Ethanol Plant (andythenorth) @
19:58:11  <Rubidium> planetmaker: the specs says they're not
19:58:12  <Ammler> maybe I should just not commit anymore and make diffs and let you do the commit
19:58:41  <planetmaker> Ammler: please, no :-)
19:58:53  <Ammler> well, my commits need tests :-P
19:59:11  <planetmaker> Rubidium: got a link to the specs? ttdwiki?
19:59:43  <Rubidium> Ammler: and what is the problem with a release before the beta and before the stable and otherwise when needed?
19:59:59  <Rubidium> planetmaker:
20:00:02  <Ammler> that is completely fine
20:00:13  <planetmaker> anyway... so light houses and transmitter are not new objects. Then it needs something new. I see
20:00:18  <Ammler> Rubidium: what is the problem with a release a long time after?
20:00:19  <planetmaker> Let that be a highway sign
20:00:45  *** Alberth has left #openttdcoop.devzone
20:00:56  <Ammler> missing sprites are obvious a reason for release
20:01:04  <Rubidium> Ammler: nothing, but it is likely that some sprites get added between the beta and final release, as such a release of OpenGFX would be needed
20:01:06  <planetmaker> and a hm... park is not good. Maybe...
20:01:38  <planetmaker> alternatively some kind of statue, Rubidium
20:01:40  <Ammler> the problem is, we don't release, not that we do release :-)
20:02:02  <planetmaker> Ammler: there's at least two somewhat fixed release dates :-)
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20:02:09  <planetmaker> they're unevenly distributed
20:02:23  <Rubidium> Ammler: I've already proposed a 3 month release cycle for you
20:02:23  <planetmaker> And we release whenever we feel like
20:02:28  <Ammler> well, as said, we could also start to make at least bananas updates
20:02:40  <planetmaker> *sigh*
20:02:44  <Rubidium> does 20-12, 20-03, 20-06, 20-09 suit you?
20:02:45  <planetmaker> you get your release
20:02:56  <planetmaker> it does
20:03:48  <planetmaker> The only thing why I didn't commit to a fixed release cycle like that is that the 'flux' of sprites is very uncontinuous
20:04:06  <planetmaker> But obviously it's better...
20:04:12  <planetmaker> If it makes people happy
20:04:38  <Rubidium> planetmaker: then you're just going to prolong it. Oh, I'll do that as well, and that, and... you've not released for another 2 months
20:04:54  <planetmaker> yeah
20:07:03  <Ammler> well, we should grab the irc log when we talked about fixed release dates the last time, it is still valid imo
20:07:31  <planetmaker> Well, ok. So be it
20:07:53  <Ammler> ok :-o
20:07:58  <planetmaker> mid March, Mid June, mid September, mid December
20:08:34  <Ammler> funny :-)
20:08:42  <planetmaker> And as Christmas present, the major versions will be released in December
20:09:06  <Ammler> well, at least we make releases, that is the good point
20:09:12  <Rubidium> technically there isn't much difference between your minor and major releases :)
20:09:26  <planetmaker> Rubidium: exactly. That's why it can be chosen arbitrary
20:09:32  <planetmaker> kinda :-)
20:09:41  <Rubidium> you don't branch and only bugfix which development happens in another branch. But yes, you can arbitrarily bump it
20:10:11  <planetmaker> But maybe you have a better proposal
20:10:19  <Rubidium> nope
20:10:23  <planetmaker> I've been thinking about that quite a bit... but with no good conclusion
20:10:27  <Rubidium> going to 0.2.12231234 isn't useful either
20:10:39  <planetmaker> hm... approaching 2.7... ?
20:10:50  <planetmaker> or 3.1415...?
20:11:03  <planetmaker> but we're no OpenTeX
20:11:20  <Ammler> 0.3 it is because of -c mainly :-)
20:11:34  <Rubidium> planetmaker: only if you go for 3,1415926539879323846 :)
20:11:43  <planetmaker> :-)
20:11:57  <planetmaker> and a bit more. A tiny bit more
20:11:57  <Ammler> new sprites could be a reason for major release
20:12:16  <planetmaker> Or that
20:12:27  <planetmaker> Do we have new ones?
20:12:34  <Ammler> yes, 0.3 is fine :-P
20:12:40  <planetmaker> :-P
20:12:40  <Ammler> airport previews
20:12:42  <Rubidium> planetmaker: plenty
20:13:06  <planetmaker> Oh, right
20:13:24  * Rubidium wonders how long it is going to take before you have any clue what that number is about :)
20:13:48  <Ammler> well, it was clear
20:13:59  <Ammler> 0.1 was alpha, 0.2 beta
20:14:20  <Rubidium> 0.3 will be gamma
20:14:20  <Ammler> or complete
20:14:25  <Ammler> :-)
20:14:33  <Ammler> o.3 is stable
20:14:59  <Ammler> and then 1.0 :-)
20:15:32  <Ammler> and the repo can be merged to openttd, no maintenance needed anymore
20:15:57  <planetmaker> lol
20:16:51  <planetmaker> Hm... I just got the message, that ogfxe_extra contains missing sprites and that they'd be displayed by a red question mark... which is actually blue :-)
20:17:04  <planetmaker> But I wonder why I got that message...
20:17:15  <planetmaker> The up and down arrows are missing for some reason
20:17:38  <planetmaker> au. Crash
20:17:43  <planetmaker> size < memory
20:17:48  <Ammler> hmm, yes just without the "red"
20:18:23  <planetmaker> hm... corrupted sprite
20:19:05  <planetmaker> I guess such crashes are not interesting, Rubidium ?
20:19:38  <Rubidium> crash due to a corrupted grf? Not really
20:19:53  <Rubidium> although if it's really easy to fix it might be worked around in some manner
20:20:20  <planetmaker> must have been a bad copy... works with a new compilation of OpenGFX
20:20:52  <planetmaker> dbg: [sprite] [82] Loading corrupted sprite from /ogfxe_extra at position 3672151
20:21:03  <planetmaker>  Message: Assertion failed at line 201 of /Users/ingo/ottd/trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_optimized.cpp: size < memory
20:21:34  <planetmaker>      Revision text changed to haebaafa4, savegame version 146, not modified, _openttd_newgrf_version = 0x11005046
20:22:12  <planetmaker> I guess not worth the work
20:23:27  <andythenorth> mmmm
20:23:29  <andythenorth> pie
20:23:42  * andythenorth feels hungry
20:24:53  <andythenorth> or pi
20:31:29  <Ammler> I had same crash yesterday :-)
20:31:40  <Ammler> with the fuzzy drink save
20:32:23  <planetmaker> just fuzzy :-P
20:33:04  <Ammler> i :-)
20:39:29  <planetmaker>
20:39:40  <planetmaker> hm... it doesn't talk here :-)
20:39:47  <planetmaker> it = webster
20:43:42  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 500:059c59abc56a: Change: Move sprites of fizzy drinks factory a bit (planetmaker) @
20:49:57  <Ammler> hmm, it should for tt-forums
20:50:44  <planetmaker> not this channel, I think
20:51:00  <planetmaker> I complained too much about it ;-)
20:51:33  <Rubidium> I reckon it failed to get the title of the image
20:57:25  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #839: 4737-4742: Fizzy drink factory (planetmaker) @
21:00:23  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1237:b31a136db292: Feature: additional layout for Forest (andythenorth) @
21:02:17  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1243 (Closed): Add more layouts to Forest (andythenorth) @
21:05:09  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1238:d4bc8d7e0450: Change: Gas Station now Petrol Pump -... (andythenorth) @
21:05:11  *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
21:08:49  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1276 (New): Reimplement Fishing Ground without heliport (andythenorth) @
21:13:41  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Feature #1277 (New): Modularize the Makefile even more (planetmaker) @
21:23:00  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the patch for inserting template name as comment looks good
21:30:34  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #927 (Closed): prevent industries being built in the desert (andythenorth) @
21:33:03  <planetmaker> it works?
21:33:10  <andythenorth> the patch?
21:33:13  <andythenorth> appears to
21:33:20  <planetmaker> good :-)
21:34:01  <andythenorth> I wish I understood how to customise Text Wrangler's syntax colouring though :P
21:34:21  <andythenorth> the template names in firs.nfo look a bit like failed template includes
21:34:56  <andythenorth> nvm, it's good
21:39:22  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 133:367f9163bc49: Change: Somewhat automatically dedice upon a ... (planetmaker) @
21:43:07  <andythenorth> good night
21:50:07  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 134:3915a03f6c7b: Change: Keep preprocessing output in the nfo.... (planetmaker) @
22:10:49  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 135:a45f2342fd6d: Change: Update update script with new dep che... (planetmaker) @
22:10:49  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 136:507dbd082b9e: Change: Make the suppression of the verbose g... (planetmaker) @
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22:13:47  <Rubidium> planetmaker: +	$(_E) "mdpe style"
22:14:41  <planetmaker> hm mdep :-)
22:15:11  <planetmaker> I've seen it now dozens of times but never noticed :S
22:15:13  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 137:aaf7a7fe1582: Fix: Paths do matter in dep checks (planetmaker) @
22:16:56  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 138:a85adf2e60cb: Fix: Typo in comment (planetmaker) @
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23:28:09  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 139:04079a48bc78: Fix: Don't consider commented out files as de... (planetmaker) @
23:28:09  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 140:1915d05dbe12: Change: Don't print every dependency for the ... (planetmaker) @
23:46:28  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 141:71c0afbf6022: Doc: A few phony targets were not documented (planetmaker) @
23:46:28  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 142:c714021a36a4: Update: Changelog for 0.4.0 (planetmaker) @
23:46:28  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 143:664863dde2e2: Added tag 0.4.0 for changeset c714021a36a4 (planetmaker) @
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23:52:54  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 586:7dcc70e8cfc9: Change: Update to Makefile version 0.4.0 (planetmaker) @
23:54:59  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 97:0e397f58be10: Change: Update to Makefile version 0.4.0 (planetmaker) @
23:58:10  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Bug #1278 (New): bundle_src for nutracks (planetmaker) @

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