Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 23rd August 2010:
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08:52:15  <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 29:372f782a7fc8: Add: Swedish translation (by Irwe) (planetmaker) @
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11:07:09  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 234:9331c9eca33a: Fix: don't bundle version.def twice in the source bundle (Rubidium) @
11:07:09  <Brot6> NFORenum - Revision 474:94a6f8bf6874: Fix: don't bundle version.def twice in the source bundle (Rubidium) @
11:46:59  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1054 (Feedback): Incomplete cargo chains prior to certain da... (foobar) @
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12:11:20  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 159:f3bcdbfc444a: Change: Unify the handling of build targets a... (planetmaker) @
12:11:20  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 160:3ae2dd5c59b9: Change: Avoid that makefiles have the same ex... (planetmaker) @
12:11:49  <planetmaker> hm.
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12:12:51  <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Revision 662:7a7ba174cb44: Coded 747-400 BCF (FaddyPainter) @
12:12:51  <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Revision 663:6f66b0b9473d: Coded new 747SCD liveries (FaddyPainter) @
12:14:01  <Ammler> planetmaker:
12:14:05  <Brot6> repository /home/ottdc/hg-repos/ttrs registered in Redmine with url /home/ottdc/hg-repos/ttrs
12:14:05  <Brot6> repository /home/ottdc/hg-repos/ttrs created
12:15:54  <Rubidium> Ammler/planetmaker: anything using hg archive for source bundling and then adding something with tar -u? That might not work as you expect :)
12:16:17  <planetmaker> I don't use that
12:16:27  <Ammler> what is tar -u?
12:16:32  <Rubidium> update
12:16:41  <Ammler> why should someone use that?
12:17:10  <Rubidium> because version.def of grfcodec/nforenum needs to be modified from the normal hg checkout to include the actual version numbers
12:17:29  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Feature Request #1287 (New): FIRS compatible (Ammler) @
12:22:38  <Ammler> nice, I setup project and delegate responsibility to other guys :-)
12:23:02  <Ammler> I wonder, if George will react
12:23:47  <Ammler> planetmaker: any idea for a ticket I could assign to him?
12:24:12  <planetmaker> Ammler: Csaboka coded TTRS
12:24:17  <planetmaker> and don't assign any tickets
12:24:22  <planetmaker> not yet :-)
12:24:37  <Ammler> well, I just want to mail George :-P
12:25:09  <planetmaker> And I'll actually keep the original license which I got when it was still in the grfpack
12:25:25  <Ammler> then my 2nd thought is right, George is the only active from the credits, right?
12:26:07  <Ammler> well, does it have some nc clauses?
12:26:10  <Ammler> or nd?
12:26:21  <Ammler> @grf
12:26:38  <Ammler> @wiki grf
12:26:40  <Webster> GRF - #openttdcoop Wiki -
12:26:57  <planetmaker> it doesn't
12:27:09  <planetmaker> TTRS-v3 has been made for the Transport Tycoon fans; you are free to use it at your disposal,
12:27:11  <planetmaker> as long as you give the right credits.
12:27:28  <planetmaker> That includes modifications and enhangements to individual drawings and code slices  (see license.txt for the legal words).
12:27:38  <Ammler> so it is GPL without sources, when we provide sources, nothing against sources
12:27:43  <planetmaker> yep
12:27:55  <Ammler> so we can change to GPL, can't we?
12:28:14  <planetmaker> I think so
12:28:29  <Ammler> well, you are right, keep the license
12:28:38  <Ammler> nothing really important yet
12:28:45  <Ammler> specially not before we releae something
12:29:16  <Ammler> maybe you could add the html to the docs?
12:29:27  <planetmaker> what? why that?
12:29:38  <planetmaker> and... which html?
12:29:45  <Ammler> the readme
12:29:54  <Ammler> or is it around in textform?
12:30:48  <Ammler> r0 might be best just the decoded grf and the html
12:31:24  <Rubidium> or... you could ask the original devs for the code? Might be much more useful than a decoded one
12:31:49  <Ammler> nobody reachable
12:31:59  <Rubidium> how long did you wait?
12:32:05  <Rubidium> how hard did you try?
12:32:06  <Ammler> planetmaker: ?
12:32:20  <Rubidium> did you for example try to email them?
12:33:11  <Ammler> I am quite sure, pm tried to email those for the license stuff
12:35:16  <planetmaker> I didn't actually try
12:35:49  <planetmaker> As I never truely followed this path. But yes, I should do that, I guess :-)
12:36:05  <planetmaker> But I didn't e-mail them for license stuff as it's IMHO quite clear
12:36:52  <Ammler> oh, I made a ticket and assigned to George :-)
12:37:06  <planetmaker> why?
12:37:16  <Ammler> because he is on the credits list
12:37:25  <Ammler> maybe he knows something
12:37:37  <planetmaker> I really don't see the need for a license discussion with TTRS
12:37:39  <Ammler> you can still try to email the others
12:37:56  <Ammler> no, for sources
12:38:05  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Support #1288 (New): Sources (Ammler) @
12:38:31  <planetmaker> That will be in the hand of Czaboka...
12:38:49  <planetmaker> and he put it up on bananas afaik?
12:38:56  <Rubidium> regardless of the license stuff, it's better to ask before doing some "hostile" fork using decompiled sources
12:39:16  <Ammler> maybe we should make it private :-)
12:39:58  <Ammler> on the other side, it was already a "Forum" project
12:39:59  <planetmaker> Rubidium: that's sure :-)
12:40:13  <Ammler> so wouldn't be a fork
12:41:03  <Rubidium> grfcodec/nforenum would be a fork if Dalestan didn't reply
12:42:20  <Ammler> yes, TTRS wouldn't be in any case, that is what I mean
12:43:02  <Ammler> except pm would like to, but I wouldn't
12:44:43  <Ammler> fork would need new name, I ssume
12:57:35  <planetmaker> Ammler: my aim is to just provide an update to TTRS wich supports the parameter display
12:57:46  <planetmaker> seen that it is an issue and readme not readily available
12:57:54  <planetmaker> besides, there are other bugs, yes
13:16:10  <planetmaker> requests for sources sent
13:58:24  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Support #1289 (New): Corrected ChME3 sprites (Voyager1) @
14:01:54  <Ammler> hmm, is it possible to teach FF to view pcx directly
14:02:42  <Rubidium> ofcourse it is
14:02:59  <planetmaker> :-D
14:03:12  <Rubidium> start by checking out their source and building it for yourself before changing/adding the code needed to do so
14:03:37  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Support #1290 (New): Corrected VL85 sprites (Voyager1) @
14:29:33  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: ? Is that Nynorsk or Bokmal you write?
14:35:09  <planetmaker> Rubidium: is it a problem to release already now a newgrf with Belarusian translations?
14:35:17  <planetmaker> I guess not, but...
14:35:28  <Rubidium> shouldn't be
14:35:50  <planetmaker> ok :-)
14:35:55  <Rubidium> though you can check it by starting 1.0.3
14:36:13  <planetmaker> I still hope to get a translation from glx into French and then I should be set
14:36:20  <planetmaker> yes, will test that
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15:35:21  <planetmaker> quak
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15:36:52  <planetmaker> 1.0.3 seems fine with Belarusian texts. But it ignores action14 anyway
15:37:02  <planetmaker> moin Yexo
15:37:10  <Yexo> hi planetmaker
15:37:24  <frosch123> moin planetmaker :)
15:37:40  <frosch123> 1.0.3 with belarusian? how that?
15:37:42  <planetmaker> :-) do you actually have (meanwhile) a highlight on 'quak', frosch123 ?
15:37:51  <frosch123> sure
15:37:55  <planetmaker> frosch123: not at all. But it doesn't complain
15:38:03  <frosch123> but, it does no longer highlight on earthquake
15:38:10  <planetmaker> I just wondered
15:38:12  <planetmaker> haha :-)
15:38:35  <planetmaker> so talk about Quakers is also irrelevant? ;-)
15:42:10  <Ammler> what channel are you in, where they speak about earthquaks?
15:43:50  <frosch123> #openttd
15:44:01  <frosch123> it happened at least twice
15:44:25  <frosch123> once it was belugas with a local earthquake in montreal, the second time i cannot remember
15:51:16  <Ammler> hehe
15:54:06  <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 30:14276f46b821: Add: Swedish and Norwegian translation (by AndersI, Irwe... (planetmaker) @
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15:58:26  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Feature #1292 (New): support version for action14 & custom_tags.txt (planetmaker) @
16:06:13  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Feature #1292: support version for action14 & custom_tags.txt (planetmaker) @
16:07:52  <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 31:6ca73a67a7fb: Change: Indicate UTF-8 strings not by the thorn but by t... (planetmaker) @
16:10:07  <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 32:40951698c90a: Change: Use the repo revision as version (planetmaker) @
16:16:35  <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 33:d949a3f49fa8: Fix: It was Bokmål, not Nynorsk (planetmaker) @
16:20:24  <Brot6> grfcodec: update from r233 to r234 done -
16:21:42  <Brot6> nforenum: update from r473 to r474 done -
16:22:15  <Brot6> snowlinemod: update from r28 to r33 done -
16:23:31  <Brot6> worldairlinersset: update from r662 to r663 done -
16:23:32  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r586), 32bpp-extra (r38), airportsplus (r53), basecosts (r20), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1246), fish (r387), heqs (r372), metrotrackset (r56), newgrf_makefile (r162), nml (r672), nutracks (r98), ogfxplus (r41), opengfx (r502), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), swedishrails (r143), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r25)
16:26:55  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #1150: too wide sprites in purchase list (DJNekkid) @
16:33:16  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: 2cctrainset (47 errors), 32bpp-extra (1 errors) (Diffsize: 13), airportsplus, basecosts (Diffsize: 11), comic-houses (3 errors) (Diffsize: 13), firs, fish (5 errors), heqs, metrotrackset, newgrf_makefile, nutracks, opengfx, transrapidtrackset (Diffsize: 11)
16:36:07  <Ammler> DJNekkid: you also have the type
16:36:47  * Ammler would favorize disabling renaming...
16:40:16  <planetmaker> renaming?
16:40:53  <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 34:5221bcd22e93: Add: Polish translation (by Kogut) (planetmaker) @
16:40:55  <Ammler> #1150 is about that?
16:41:09  <Ammler> disable renaming of vehicles would "solve" it?
16:41:45  <Ammler> what again was the issue with posx?
16:42:09  <Ammler> or how that properity is called
16:42:15  <planetmaker> part of the string and removed, if custom-string used
16:42:18  <planetmaker> setx
16:42:26  <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 35:ba998896cf85: Fix: langID wrong (planetmaker) @
16:42:37  <Ammler> why doesn't setx work?
16:42:59  <planetmaker> because it's part of the string
16:43:08  <planetmaker> as such a custom string doens't have it
16:43:12  <Ammler> setx too?
16:43:19  <planetmaker> yes
16:43:39  <Ammler> is that logical?
16:44:07  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #1150: too wide sprites in purchase list (Rubidium) @
16:45:14  <Ammler> hmm, Rubidium just recommend setx, now I am confused :-)
16:45:36  <Rubidium> I did recommend it?
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16:46:05  <Rubidium> strange world this is
16:46:20  <Ammler> well, :-)
16:46:28  <Ammler> I read it as such...
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16:49:49  <Rubidium> it's like when I say that killing yourself with a sharp knive is better than jumping in front of a train means I recommend people to kill themselves with a sharp knive.
16:49:49  <Ammler> wth, my openttd crashes on startup
16:50:10  <Ammler> :-)
16:50:36  <planetmaker> wrong patch? :-P
16:50:58  <Ammler> he, I don't use patches, only on server :-P
16:51:19  <Ammler> yes, hg qapplied is empty
16:51:58  <Ammler> remaking
16:52:15  <Ammler> but it is something else, as my stable openttd also crashes
16:52:57  <Rubidium> although I would solve the whole issue with renaming by either not adding the extra stuff, or by adding like 4 lines to the readme about "known bugs" and not care about it
16:53:12  <Rubidium> Ammler: recent upgrade of something?
16:53:38  <Rubidium> does it crash with saying something useful by the way, e.g. the linker bailing out?
16:54:26  <Ammler> ony java
16:54:39  <Ammler> no, just the "stupid" seg fault
16:55:38  <Ammler> hmm
16:56:31  <Ammler> <-- fresh compile
16:57:05  <Ammler> r20544 that was
16:57:06  <Rubidium> well, make a debug build and run it in gdb
16:57:33  <Rubidium> or... try to update to something newer?
16:57:42  <Ammler> yep, I do...
16:58:03  <Ammler> anyway, strange is that my 1.0.3 also does
16:58:11  <Ammler> which worked for sure
16:58:17  <Ammler> as I tested opengfx there
17:03:13  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #1150: too wide sprites in purchase list (DJNekkid) @
17:06:30  <planetmaker> hm, got e-mail from Csaba. TTRS is written with GRFmaker :-(
17:06:42  <planetmaker> Let's see how those sources look like...
17:10:01  <planetmaker> hm. Unusable... :S
17:15:12  <frosch123> decode the grf, and use the nfo :p
17:16:44  <Rubidium> so now you have a good explanation why you're using a decoded as source and not the original sources
17:16:58  <Rubidium> too bad GRFMaker can't export nfo though
17:46:24  <planetmaker> yeah
17:46:40  <planetmaker> frosch123: that's exactly what I'll do
17:46:45  <planetmaker> I don't want to re-write it
17:46:55  <planetmaker> Just pimp it in order to reduce the number of questions
17:47:20  <planetmaker> And I might fix some white pixels and a few nforenum errors
18:12:24  <planetmaker> hm... can I clone to a remote location?
18:13:33  <frosch123> scp or rsync should do
18:14:26  <frosch123> if you have a hg init first on the remote side, you can push though
18:15:37  <planetmaker> I had the hg init here already.
18:15:47  <planetmaker> actually it works. It failed only as the dir existed
18:16:02  <planetmaker> hg clone ./ttrs ssh:// works :-)
18:16:07  <planetmaker> after I deleted it ;-)
18:17:09  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Revision 0:a438e243dca2: Initial import (planetmaker) @
18:18:12  <Rubidium> it needs renum? :(
18:19:10  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Support #1288 (Closed): Sources (planetmaker) @
18:19:10  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Bug #1293 (New): disable normal houses via parameter (planetmaker) @
18:19:10  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Feature #1294 (New): multiplier for cargo generation (planetmaker) @
18:19:35  <planetmaker> renum? nforenum
18:19:44  <Rubidium> it mentions renum specifically
18:19:51  <planetmaker> Oh, in the readme?
18:19:54  <Rubidium> yep
18:20:03  <planetmaker> It's an old text I wrote 9 months ago :-P
18:20:39  <planetmaker> Only now it really makes sense, though, to update the set
18:20:44  <Rubidium> the nfo looks fishy as well; iso8859-1 fishy
18:20:54  <planetmaker> yes, that's probably true
18:21:12  <planetmaker> But that will need proper conversion.
18:21:33  <Rubidium> maybe nforenum's beautifier helps
18:22:01  <planetmaker> hm, let's see
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18:32:06  <planetmaker> hm :S
18:32:24  <Ammler> planetmaker: why you need to clone to the server?
18:32:34  <planetmaker> I had the repo already here
18:32:34  <Ammler> or where would you like to?
18:32:41  <planetmaker> Problem already solved
18:33:02  <Ammler> well, but you "solved" it wrong :-)
18:33:08  <Ammler> use -f next time
18:34:15  <planetmaker> hm, yes
18:34:25  <planetmaker> not much difference, though
18:34:26  <Ammler> I wonder, that this matters for a empty repo
18:36:11  <planetmaker> hm :S
18:36:12  <Ammler> anyway, did csaboka state, that he has no interest on continue the set?
18:36:20  <planetmaker> My character set conversion fails
18:37:03  <Ammler> iconv?
18:41:24  <planetmaker> well. Rather insufficient tools
18:41:28  <planetmaker> Or inconvenient
18:41:35  <planetmaker> And automatic detection doesn't work
18:41:49  <planetmaker> I need my linux nedit :-)
18:54:12  <planetmaker> hm, actually XCode can do that conveniently. But I don#t find a character set which fits all...
18:56:47  <Ammler> he, utf-8?
18:57:13  <planetmaker> yes. But I must first somehow have it displayed correctly. Which it isn't here
18:57:34  <Ammler> wow :-o
18:59:29  <frosch123> if it is grf it should be latin 1
19:01:50  <planetmaker> hm, yes. But... not with these tools :S
19:02:05  <planetmaker> at least I fail to convert it from that to UTF-8
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19:09:19  <frosch123> works fine for me
19:09:38  <frosch123> first do "renum -a" to get rid of the string codes, then load as latin-1
19:11:51  <frosch123> hmm, except for Hungarian
19:12:14  <planetmaker> The coder IS a Hungarian...
19:12:52  <frosch123> oh, the hungarian texts are already utf-8
19:13:00  <frosch123> that makes converting hard of course :)
19:14:00  <planetmaker> hm. damn
19:14:10  <planetmaker> so... piecewise
19:14:24  <planetmaker> yes... there are some with the UTF two-byte sequence
19:33:16  <Ammler> planetmaker: currently, it isn't possible to get ride about the opengfx error message with bananas :-)
19:37:32  <planetmaker> what error message?
19:37:39  <planetmaker> missing spritesß
19:37:40  <planetmaker> ?
19:37:44  <Ammler> yes
19:37:52  <planetmaker> Well. Fix the signal alignment
19:38:02  <planetmaker> :-P
19:38:08  <Ammler> there is still a bug there?
19:38:14  <Ammler> hmm
19:38:28  <planetmaker> Did you change it since I posted the screenshot?
19:38:56  <Ammler> need to check :-)
19:39:00  <planetmaker> They're placed everywhere... but not consistently at the start of the tile at a somewhat similar distance to the track
19:39:24  <Ammler> of course not
19:39:31  <Ammler> are the original?
19:39:39  <planetmaker> they should
19:40:06  <Ammler> it is nicer, if the train stops before the signal imo
19:40:12  <Ammler> in front of*
19:42:08  <planetmaker> yes
19:42:30  <planetmaker> then the signal should especially not be placed outside in front of the tile ;-)
19:44:45  <Ammler> well, I thought, I fixed that, but I check the screen you made
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19:52:24  <planetmaker> I might be wrong. But I didn't see any commit after I posted that. Maybe I just missed it or didn't install after a pull
19:52:30  <planetmaker> Though I do that usually
19:52:43  <planetmaker> Especially if I'm testing the grf ;-)
19:53:21  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Revision 1:791406eef006: Codechange: Skip action14, if TTDPatch, so ... (planetmaker) @
19:53:21  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Revision 2:74d56f173853: Change: Update readme a bit (planetmaker) @
19:55:09  <frosch123> planetmaker: that is a myth
19:55:26  <frosch123> action14 is not skippable for older ttdp
19:56:21  <Ammler> the alignment is fixed, still with a general offset for all
19:56:39  <Ammler> but the action colors need new png
19:56:43  <Ammler> or converting
19:56:51  <planetmaker> just touching the sprites
19:57:15  <Ammler> that is why I reopened
19:57:22  <planetmaker> just fix it
19:58:59  <Ammler> yes, as soon as I get new images or I will to the convert self
20:03:53  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1269 (Closed): alternative "missing sprite" sprite (Ammler) @
20:10:24  <planetmaker> I'm sorry, Ammler. Alignments are indeed fixed :-)
20:13:00  <planetmaker> besides that, we now should stick to our release-schedule :-)
20:13:02  <Ammler> well, you might be able to align some sigs better, but most probably not with same offset for all
20:13:15  <planetmaker> that's not evil.
20:13:26  <planetmaker> that's life of a grf-developer
20:15:37  <planetmaker> I just encountered meanwhile many cases where implementation of a template didn't really save time ;-)
20:15:59  <planetmaker> but it makes things look more pretty most of the cases
20:20:30  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1247:e759268a5c6a: Feature: Blacksmith cannot build afte... (foobar) @
20:20:30  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1259 (Closed): Blacksmith needs a "don't build after xyz... (foobar) @
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20:24:34  <Ammler> well, using a template makes it more consistent
20:24:49  <Ammler> and much easier to fix, imo
20:26:57  <frosch123> night
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20:27:16  <Ammler> he
20:27:36  <Ammler> TTRS if you like to keep default the same needs also a update for action14
20:27:45  <Ammler> s/update/fix/
20:28:30  <Ammler> as it uses 0 as value
20:29:47  <Ammler> hg clone <-- does that work?
20:39:15  <Rubidium> planetmaker: r1 of TTRS is totally unneeded. If TTDP doesn't understand Action14 it'll not allow the NewGRF even if you skip it
20:42:39  <Rubidium> planetmaker: see
20:47:24  <planetmaker> oh, then I recalled that wrongly. Thanks
20:50:27  <Ammler> and how did you solve the "default" issue?
20:50:58  <Rubidium> just poke Yexo into fixing that/figuring something out for that :)
20:51:45  <Yexo> Ammler: parameter defaults?
20:51:47  <Ammler> Rubidium: I told the day when you added Action14, that it needs fixing and how, I never really got, why it is that hard
20:52:20  <Ammler> Yexo: how to solve if you use value 0, but it isn't default?
20:52:33  <Yexo> ah, that
20:52:57  <Ammler> it is getting serious :-P
20:54:22  <planetmaker> nah. Serious is action14 support for NML :-P
20:54:29  * planetmaker hides
20:59:44  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Revision 3:2eed475bfb3b: Add: Dutch, German and Spanish translations (planetmaker) @
20:59:44  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Revision 4:4a4c6dd1b13b: Revert (r1): It's useless to skip action14,... (planetmaker) @
21:08:42  <Ammler> does TTDP also support a14 now?
21:08:48  <Ammler> thought, it does just ignore it
21:10:53  <Rubidium> yes, it supports it by ignoring the Action14 instead of the NewGRF
21:14:54  <Yexo> this patch adds a new field to action14 for parameters, "DEFA", type binary, size 4 bytes
21:15:34  <Yexo> when a newgrf doesn't use the new field, nothing changes
21:15:52  <Yexo> when it does use that field, the default values are set when the user adds the newgrf to the config list
21:16:34  <Yexo> planned changed after this: add a "reset" button to the parameter window that sets all parameters to "0, unchanged by user" and then sets the default values again (if provided)
21:16:55  <planetmaker> :-) sounds exactly like what is missing :-)
21:17:09  <Yexo> note that setting a default value works exactly the same as when a user had manually set that parameter, so adding 80 in actionD doens't work if you've set a default
21:17:24  <Yexo> imo that is a feature, because you can easily be backward compatible
21:17:26  <planetmaker> yes, but that's not a big issue
21:17:35  <planetmaker> but currently I can set values which must not happen
21:17:43  <planetmaker> like: limits 2...16. And I get value 1
21:18:05  <Yexo> but once you set the value to 2 you can't change it back to 1 right?
21:18:06  <planetmaker> or a year parameter possibly
21:18:11  <planetmaker> yes, that's correct
21:18:19  <Yexo> so if you set a proper default that problem is also fixed
21:18:26  <planetmaker> exactly :-)
21:18:29  <Yexo> except when the user modifies the config file to change the value
21:18:44  <planetmaker> those who do that are to blame themselves
21:18:49  <Yexo> agreed
21:24:33  <Ammler> nice yexo :-)
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21:25:22  <Ammler> does it hurt, if you use DEFA on older openttd?
21:25:37  <planetmaker> no
21:25:50  <planetmaker> that's a general property of action14: ignore what is not understood
21:26:00  <Ammler> ok :-)
21:26:44  <Ammler> so ActionD +80 is needed for ttdp and older openttd
21:27:29  <Yexo> yep
21:27:59  <Yexo> mind that if you set DEFA for any setting, openttd will assume a default of 0 for all other settings and set that
21:28:27  <Yexo> so if you say you change 4 parameters, set a default for the first then ActionD +80 won't work for param 2, 3, 4 because 0 is "manually" set for them too
21:28:41  <Ammler> hmm
21:28:58  <Ammler> why can't it bahave like it does with 0 now?
21:29:26  <planetmaker> Yexo: syntax is how exactly?
21:29:32  <Ammler> well, better as no default it is anyway
21:29:33  <planetmaker> "B" "DEFA" \w<value>
21:29:43  <Yexo> for binary fields you need to specify the size
21:29:54  <Yexo> so add 4 after "DEFA"
21:29:59  <Yexo> and it's a dword, not a word
21:29:59  <planetmaker> or "B" "DEFA" \w4 \d<value>
21:30:04  <Yexo> yep
21:30:24  <Yexo> <planetmaker> or "B" "DEFA" \w4 \d<value> <- that's correct, should be \w4 indeed, not 4
21:30:46  <planetmaker> ok. and \w not \d :-)
21:31:04  <Yexo> Ammler: you normally won't notice that behavior, if you set a default you should set a default for all parameters were you don't want 0 to be the default
21:31:22  <Yexo> the \d<value> is correct
21:32:01  <Ammler> Yexo: I have a grf with 22 parameters, but mostly you need around 4, so it might look strange :-)
21:32:30  <planetmaker> hm...
21:32:41  <planetmaker> it it doesn't seem quite to work
21:32:53  <planetmaker> funnily it sets the parameters to 0 0
21:34:31  <planetmaker> and that even before I pressed the parameter button
21:35:45  <planetmaker> and as soon as the grf is activated I always have the parameters set. there's no use anymore for 'none'
21:37:11  <Yexo> planetmaker: you got a test grf?
21:37:52  <Yexo> the defaults are set when you add the newgrf to the active list, not when you press the parameter button
21:39:14  <planetmaker> yes, I do.
21:40:15  <Ammler> same here, default is 10, but all parameters are 0
21:40:22  <planetmaker>
21:40:32  <Brot6> Snowline mod - (planetmaker) @
21:40:33  <planetmaker> defaults are 2 and 8
21:41:35  <planetmaker> I added also the diff to r35 of snowline mod.
21:41:39  <planetmaker> You need arctic climate
21:41:50  <Ammler> not possible to set default to "unset"? :-P
21:42:15  <planetmaker> hm?
21:42:35  <planetmaker> hm... that might actually be nicer
21:42:38  <Brot6> Snowline mod - add_default.diff (planetmaker) @
21:43:10  <Yexo> Ammler: it's not possible to "unset" single parameters
21:43:21  <Yexo> there is one counter that keeps track of how many parameters are "set"
21:43:49  <Ammler> planetmaker: you should use tracker for diffs
21:46:58  <planetmaker> Ammler: no point to open an issue for that
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21:47:13  <Yexo> thanks planetmaker :)
21:47:18  <Yexo> was a small error
21:47:20  <planetmaker> no problem
21:47:23  <Yexo> it works now ;)
21:48:19  <planetmaker> nice! :-)
21:49:37  <Yexo> would DFLT instead of DEFA be ok as name?
21:49:54  <planetmaker> why?
21:50:02  <Rubidium> more common abbreviation
21:50:06  <planetmaker> hm
21:50:11  <planetmaker> I like defa :-)
21:50:37  <planetmaker> but I don't really mind
21:51:57  <Yexo> is dflt really more common? I'd normally use "DEF", but it's only 3 chars
21:52:26  <Rubidium>
21:52:27  <Webster> Title: Default in Definitions. How to abbreviate Default (at
21:53:19  <Yexo> ok, so DFLT it is
22:04:12  <Brot6> Snowline mod - Revision 36:0e2af1127e67: Change: Make use of the default parameter settings (planetmaker) @
22:10:07  <Ammler> "my" problem with setting all defaults is that "my" default is other then openttd default in that case :-)
22:10:12  <Ammler> but anyway, nice
22:11:15  <Ammler> (basecosts, 8 but I prefer 10 as default
22:12:16  <Ammler> Yexo: is it possible that if you are at min and click again right, it would jump to max?
22:12:38  <Ammler> and same if you are at max and click right it would jump to min
22:12:43  <Ammler> isn't that common?
22:12:45  <Yexo> that shouldn't happen
22:13:01  <Ammler> yes, it doesn't, but I would like that :-)
22:13:09  <Yexo> ah, but that's not how it normally works in openttd
22:13:22  <Ammler> ok, then
22:13:27  <Yexo> so it's not a good default, it'd need a flag to enable it
22:14:35  <Ammler> I didn't try, maybe I can use -1?
22:14:59  <Yexo> all values are uints iirc
22:15:06  <Yexo> so -1 is 0xFFFFFFFF
22:15:20  <Ammler> yes, well, nvm then
22:15:20  <planetmaker> [00:13]	<Ammler>	yes, it doesn't, but I would like that :-) <-- I don't ;-)
22:18:29  <Ammler> planetmaker: so it is uncommon?
22:19:06  <Ammler> I wasn't sure
22:19:56  <planetmaker> it's found sometimes. But I'm not sure whether it fits here.
22:20:22  <planetmaker> Better is IMHO a functionality like ctrl+click = jump to other end or make bigger jumps
22:20:51  <planetmaker> that's more intuitive
22:22:46  <Rubidium> >> #openttd >> thought it was scheduled "soon" :)
22:23:11  <planetmaker> yup. three weeks or so :-)
22:23:27  <planetmaker> maybe two
22:29:36  <Ammler> does nforenum have the capability to check for example, if action14 with default also has a "matching" actionD +80?
22:30:12  <Ammler> no, might not be possible, as action14 has settings
22:30:47  <Ammler> at least you can do that with nml :-)
22:30:56  <Yexo> yep :)
22:32:32  <planetmaker> :-)
22:35:19  <Ammler> planetmaker: you see, my asking for ogfx2banaans isn't that selfish :-P
22:36:01  <planetmaker> I know. But nightly usesrs should know :-P
22:37:13  <Ammler> again, is it a bad idea to upload from time to time a nightly for nightly users?
22:37:29  <Rubidium> Ammler: adding ogfx nightlies to bananas means *either* adding a new unique id for the opengfx nightlies (making replacing opengfx nightlies for opengfx more of a hassel) or it means pushing only the nightlies the nightly users
22:37:50  <Ammler> Rubidium: I meant the 2nd
22:38:19  <Ammler> just setting min version to nightly for nightlies
22:38:57  <Ammler> it doesn't hurt, if those people then use it with stable too
22:40:14  <Ammler> maybe it was also just bad timing for the commit you made :-)
22:41:13  <planetmaker> I like atomic comits, but not atomic releases ;-)
22:42:04  <Ammler> I meant the commit from rubi
22:46:13  <Ammler> I can't do more then tell you..., the rest is up2you...
22:47:02  <Rubidium> bananas isn't quite designed for distributing nightlies
22:47:35  <Ammler> not every nightly, just for example todays :-)
22:47:40  <Rubidium> as it retains all binaries, which makes it grow quite quickly
22:47:41  <Ammler> I thought, that is clear
22:48:05  <Ammler> as a kind of beta release
22:49:37  <Ammler> but I really should be silence about, my opinion is known, sorry.
22:49:59  <Rubidium> so is mine :)
22:50:34  <Ammler> not sure :-)
22:51:15  <Ammler> well, I know, you don't like "random" releases
22:51:46  <Rubidium> so make a beta release
22:52:32  <planetmaker> I think beta releases only make sense, if one does a branched development as OpenTTD does
22:52:44  <planetmaker> otherwise it's just a matter of how things are called
22:52:51  <Ammler> planetmaker: even openttd doesn't branch for betas
22:52:57  <planetmaker> then one could call it 0.x.y and the next 0.x.(y+1)
22:53:09  <planetmaker> yes
22:54:36  <Ammler> I proposed nightly because that wouldn't need work from you
22:54:44  <Ammler> like updating changelog and such
22:56:09  <Ammler> you could also just do it and see how people react, maybe it worse then now
22:56:17  <Ammler> then we would know, not doing it anymore
23:54:42  <Ammler> planetmaker: maybe better to decode ttrs with -t?

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