Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 23rd September 2010:
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04:36:33  <Brot6> Bundles Update: g61dd708a 2010-09-23 cargodist   (
07:27:47  *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
10:00:17  <Ammler> does someone here still push with ssh?
10:01:48  <Ammler> would it hurt much, if I change the username?
10:04:02  <Rubidium> yes! and dunno
10:07:54  <Rubidium> I probably pull with it as well
10:08:08  <Ammler> I guess, better keep it, new members don't need it anyway
10:08:19  <Ammler> so I could simply remove it from the docs
10:09:02  <Ammler> and after the migration, I will setup a new server for the gameserver anyway
10:09:57  <Rubidium> well, not sure how hard the migration from ssh to https is
10:11:25  <Ammler> I guess, it should be possible to add the username and password to ~/.hgrc
10:12:12  <Ammler> so you have default-push =<repo>
10:12:27  <Ammler> not sure, thoght
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10:43:38  <planetmaker> Ammler, I do nearly all my things via ssh
10:44:58  <planetmaker> hm, Ammler why does that URL have to differ from<repo> ?
10:50:30  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1528: Support for additional cargos (Terkhen) @
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10:58:23  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1528: Support for additional cargos (planetmaker) @
11:00:05  <Ammler> planetmaker: because it forces https
11:00:16  <Ammler> you can't do http and https with same address
11:01:35  <Ammler> that is why openttd uses secure for https
11:02:14  <Ammler> on dev I do force https on some urls where you submit the login data
11:03:35  <Ammler> should explain :-)
11:04:21  <Ammler> of course, you can also pull from the push url
11:05:13  <Rubidium> Ammler: you can do https and http with the same address
11:05:41  <Ammler> yes, but then you can't force https
11:05:57  <Rubidium> true
11:06:20  <Ammler> I could of course simply rewrite the http traffic to https, but that would be verbose unsecurity :-)
11:06:43  <Ammler> or other side around :-P
11:07:35  <Ammler> hmm, the belarusian guy had troubles to push from his work
11:07:44  <Ammler> maybe https was the issue
11:08:20  <Ammler> I should make a unsecure-push subdomain, maybe :-)
11:32:32  <Brot6> rsync & cp -Rl - Revision 11:a3850d73c262: Fix (r5): cd to non-existing path isn't possible (Ammler) @
13:41:52  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1528: Support for additional cargos (Terkhen) @
13:59:32  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1528: Support for additional cargos (planetmaker) @
14:00:19  <Ammler> you remove wagons/cargoes with ogfx+?
14:00:41  <Ammler> or is that already missing with opengfx?
14:01:28  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1528: Support for additional cargos (planetmaker) @
14:02:22  <planetmaker> hm?
14:02:32  <planetmaker> I didn't change or touch OpenGFX+ yet
14:02:41  <Ammler> just wondering how sweets can be missing
14:02:44  <planetmaker> Basically its repo could be trashed at some point
14:02:54  <planetmaker> Are sweets missing?
14:03:04  <planetmaker> I guess I didn't yet test it with toyland :S
14:03:15  <Ammler> "Another issue: in toyland, there is no wagon that can carry sweets."
14:03:36  <planetmaker> Quote from where?
14:03:40  <Ammler> Terken
14:03:44  <planetmaker> ah.
14:03:49  <planetmaker> No, that's not solved
14:06:09  <planetmaker> Terkhen, if you like, you can become a developer of OpenGFX+ Trains :-)
14:06:28  <Terkhen> hmmm... and in toyland, the flatbed wagon is using the grain hopper sprite
14:06:45  <Terkhen> planetmaker: I don't know anything more advanced than action 0/4/8
14:06:54  <planetmaker> well, so what? :-)
14:07:14  <planetmaker> With NML the actions are not needed to be known :-)
14:07:44  <planetmaker> switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, my_fancy_switch_name, condition_variable) {
14:07:53  <planetmaker> 0: spritesgroup1
14:07:57  <planetmaker> 1: spritegroup2
14:07:58  <planetmaker> }
14:08:06  <planetmaker> that's already an adv. action2 ;-)
14:08:14  <Terkhen> yes, I was planning on learning NML directly
14:08:24  <planetmaker> You may well use this. :-)
14:08:26  <Terkhen> but still, everything I know about NML is in that diff :P
14:08:36  <planetmaker> :-)
14:08:42  <planetmaker> If you like you can commit it.
14:09:26  <planetmaker> though I'd not yet disable monorail and maglev - as there's no replacement so far.
14:10:07  <planetmaker> Concerning toyland: I didn't check for that. So it will need some more love to the detailed cargos there, adjusting a bit the refit options.
14:10:41  <Ammler> ogfx+ should not disable anything per default imo
14:10:51  <planetmaker> Ammler, it makes sense for the wagons
14:11:03  <planetmaker> They come back as a refit-option
14:11:05  <planetmaker> All of them
14:11:12  <Terkhen> I'll test it for a bit first :)
14:11:18  <planetmaker> :-)
14:11:31  <Ammler> well, then it isn't disable, it is replöacing :-)
14:11:39  <planetmaker> Ammler, yes and no
14:11:59  <planetmaker> w/o newgrf we have food + goods wagon. With OpenGFX+Trains we have one wagon with a refit option for both
14:12:02  <Ammler> hmm
14:12:14  <Ammler> but it should be possible to add ogfx+ to a running game
14:12:32  <planetmaker> why?
14:13:11  <planetmaker> for all those who forgot to add a trainset?
14:13:31  <Ammler> no, if you have already a nice game and like to add something
14:13:52  <planetmaker> A valid point. But it clutters the wagon list severly. Making everything double
14:13:59  <planetmaker> even with the same graphics
14:14:08  <Ammler> maybe such a "disabler"  can be disabled by a parameter
14:14:13  <planetmaker> So I might add that ... ^
14:14:39  <Ammler> not sure about the default :-)
14:15:27  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1540 (New): Disable the behaviour that all default wagons are disabled... (planetmaker) @
14:15:28  <planetmaker> default should be 'disable wagons'
14:15:43  <planetmaker> It really looks stupid to have the exact same wagon twice in the purchase list
14:15:53  <Ammler> is a grf able to detect, if it is loaded after game start?
14:16:07  <planetmaker> Hm. I guess not
14:16:44  <planetmaker> also how to distinguish a 're-apply newgrfs' from a 'added this newgrf'?
14:19:37  <Rubidium> what *is* "game start"?
14:20:14  <Rubidium> and you're going to end up with many different cases
14:20:54  <Rubidium> newgame, newgame-network, loadgame, loadgame-network, re-apply, add in-game, remove and re-add in-game, ...
14:21:39  <Ammler> :-) was a wild guess
14:22:10  <Terkhen> I don't know if it is possible, but you could test for defined cargos and only define the refittable wagons if they all are standard cargos
14:22:11  <Ammler> hmm, basically it is when you make the red box
14:23:17  <Rubidium> but it doesn't upon loading (and that can go quite wrong as well), especially if there're static NewGRFs and you're switching from network to non-network
14:23:23  <Rubidium> (or vice versa)
14:23:32  <Ammler> it doesn't matter that much, important is that you are able to configure
14:23:33  <Rubidium> or when you add or remove static NewGRFs
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14:37:42  <Ammler> I can ping from the win vm to lin vm, but not back, what is wrong then?
14:37:50  <Ammler> using a 192.168 network
14:38:36  <SmatZ> Ammler: win fw blocking ping?
14:40:59  <Ammler> SmatZ: he, true, stupid me :-$
14:43:59  <SmatZ> nah :)
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15:36:36  <Hirundo> andythenorth: Suggestion: Make glass works accept chemicals, like the lumber yard
15:37:28  <andythenorth> put it in a FIRS ticket
15:37:31  <andythenorth> I'm open to it
15:37:46  <andythenorth> chemicals are a major industrial cargo, the more the better :)
15:38:45  <Ammler> Yexo__: please do not start closing tickets at tt-forums :-)
15:38:54  <Ammler> threads*
15:39:36  *** Yexo__ is now known as Yexo
15:39:44  <Yexo> Ammler: what are you talking about?
15:40:00  <Ammler> oh, so not the first time?
15:40:10  <Yexo> huh?
15:40:39  <Yexo> which topic are you talking about?
15:40:52  <Ammler>
15:40:54  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - AY Employees2 server - is it public? (at
15:41:03  <Ammler> you made teh quote of Hirundo quite useless
15:41:10  <Yexo> oh, that one
15:41:16  <Yexo> no, it's not the first time I've closed a topic
15:41:30  <Yexo> in this case it seemed to me that the only thing that could go on in that topic was more fighting
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15:41:45  <Yexo> everything useful has been said already, and the tone wasn't exactly friendly
15:42:03  <Yexo> so I closed it to prevent it going out of hand
15:42:04  <Ammler> yes, but tt-forums is one of the forums with a lower rating of moderators playing "parents"
15:43:24  <Ammler> in that thread it doesn't matter, I just hope, you don't become more pitty
15:43:34  <Yexo> because most of the time people can discuss everything in a civilized manner
15:44:51  <Ammler> I think, Hirundo made it good
15:45:28  <Yexo> yes, agreed
15:46:22  <Ammler> oh, now that is a feature
15:46:35  <Ammler> if the thread is locked, you can't edit posts either
15:46:53  <Yexo> but posts like "Hirundo, do you run that server? This would explain a lot. Anyways admins like that are idiots" I really dislike (implicitely calling hirundo an idiot)
15:47:26  <Ammler> yes, then kick/ban him :-)
15:47:37  <Yexo> the post before (Why bring computer nerd trash into it?) isn't exactly friendly either
15:49:28  <Yexo> Ammler: to summarize: in genaral I agree with you that topics shouldn't be closed too soon, but I hope you understand my reasons for closing this one (mainly the unfriendly tone in several posts)
15:49:33  <Ammler> IMO, closing a thread doesn't help people get friendlier
15:49:59  <Yexo> maybe not, but it might give them a clue that this was not ok
15:50:09  <Rubidium> ah well, plenty gets just moved to the spam bin
15:50:14  <Yexo> the alternative would be to let it go on, with the risk of it getting out of hand
15:50:16  <Ammler> yep, also better
15:50:57  <Yexo> true, but Ammler can't read the spam bin
15:51:04  <Ammler> I don't need
15:51:24  <Ammler> now it is kinda archived :-)
15:51:26  <Rubidium> sometimes there's fun stuff in there, or the sub-forum "north" of that
15:51:28  <Yexo> I just meant to say: You don't see how many unfriendly posts are moved there
15:52:20  <Rubidium> (hint: there are only 5 sub forums with more threads)
15:53:02  <Yexo> 3 of which are openttd subforums
15:55:50  <Rubidium> though as far as I can see the most rude comments enter via PM
15:56:21  <Ammler> it does "filter" pms?
15:56:29  <Yexo> no, but you can report them
15:56:41  <Ammler> ah ok
15:56:48  <Yexo> and a lot of those rude PMs are send direclty to the moderator that closed a topic or issued a warning
15:57:06  <Ammler> ah well :-)
15:57:39  <Ammler> he can't unload his anger to the thread anymore, so he needs another channel :-)
15:58:05  <Rubidium> #pikachu?
15:58:11  <Ammler> then you ban such guys?
15:58:31  <Yexo> yes (well, the global mods/orudge do)
15:58:33  <Rubidium> only global mods can ban
16:10:38  <planetmaker> frosch123: you're our grf expert: do you know why the (normal) rocks are twice in the base grf? sprites 4023 through 4041 and 4042 through 4060?
16:13:29  <Yexo> planetmaker: I can't find a reference in the code to the second set of sprites
16:14:04  <planetmaker> in the TTD base set they're different but I didn't find them anywhere...
16:14:22  * Rubidium coughs original
16:14:23  <planetmaker> hm... possibly place for some additional sprites, should they once be needed :-)
16:14:38  <Rubidium> (just an idea though)
16:14:54  <planetmaker> what original? TTO?
16:15:16  <Rubidium> yeah, might be that they're used in there
16:15:57  <planetmaker> hm, so not now. I might as well make the grf smaller then ;-)
16:17:05  <planetmaker> and why are they called in OpenGFX' source "adjacent rocks"?
16:17:12  <frosch123> there are various sprites only used in tto
16:17:48  <planetmaker> Might it be worth to re-use those unneeded sprites?
16:17:59  <frosch123> for what?
16:18:16  <planetmaker> more or different rocks? :-)
16:18:26  <planetmaker> cliffs
16:18:34  <planetmaker> whatever a future feature might need
16:18:35  <frosch123> new graphics would get an action5
16:19:02  <frosch123> using the potential of original graphics can be done of course, if someone cares :)
16:19:17  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
16:19:26  <planetmaker> would it need to use those which are in TTD base set?
16:19:39  <planetmaker> I guess so
16:19:55  <frosch123> yes, and it has to be codechange, else sirkoz will ask for a switch
16:20:19  <planetmaker> :-D
16:20:31  <planetmaker> he. A newobject could use them ;-)
16:20:36  <Brot6> firs: update from r1391 to r1402 done (1 errors) -
16:20:47  <planetmaker> evil. If I would remove them...
16:21:04  <planetmaker> I guess I leave them
16:21:11  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r615), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r68), airportsplus (r63), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r7), comic-houses (r71), fish (r394), frenchtowns (r4), grfcodec (r768), heqs (r376), metrotrackset (r56), newgrf_makefile (r217), nforenum (r506), nml (r795), nutracks (r117), ogfx-test (r529), ogfx-trees (r26), ogfxplus (r42), opengfx (r546), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97),
16:21:11  <Brot6> snowlinemod (r45), swedishrails (r182), swisstowns (r19), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r25), ttrs (r22), worldairlinersset (r664)
16:21:34  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 769:2996ad5b2992: Cleanup: no need to archive nightlies on devzone, only last... (Ammler) @
16:27:33  <Ammler> planetmaker: any use for that ?
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16:35:08  <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Feature #1053 (Closed): OpenTTD Patch Queue (Ammler) @
16:37:03  <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Feature #1065: Support nightly builds for branches (Ammler) @
16:38:38  <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Bug #1541 (New): index file for bundles (Ammler) @
16:40:47  <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Feature #1541 (New): index file for bundles (Ammler) @
16:42:21  <Ammler> removed nforenum from bundles
16:49:48  <planetmaker> @sqrt(38)
16:50:00  <planetmaker> @calc sqrt(38)
16:50:01  <Webster> planetmaker: 6.16441400297
16:50:11  <planetmaker> @calc sqrt(50)
16:50:11  <Webster> planetmaker: 7.07106781187
16:51:35  <Ammler> and then you complain about Brot6 spamming tickets twice :-P
16:52:37  <planetmaker> that doesn't involve hightlights
16:53:01  <Ammler> it does here
16:53:05  <planetmaker> ?
16:53:14  <Ammler> every chat line highlight here
16:53:31  <planetmaker> you don't have a hightlight on me?
16:53:38  <planetmaker> hightlight != activity
16:53:47  <Ammler> yes, activity
16:54:15  <Ammler> I don't need to visit a channel without activity
16:54:45  <Ammler> that is almost the same :-)
16:54:54  <planetmaker> :-)
16:55:10  <Ammler> else I wouldn't complain about people which away message
16:55:18  <Ammler> with*
16:55:48  <Ammler> doesn't your client show activity?
16:55:56  <planetmaker> yes
16:56:20  <planetmaker> nothing - joins/parts - talking - hightlight
16:56:29  <planetmaker> -t
16:56:55  <Ammler> I ignore notices mostly
16:57:08  <planetmaker> as do I
16:57:31  <planetmaker> but it is distinguieshed here
16:59:32  <Ammler> at least, if you do calc public, you should note for what ;-)
16:59:40  <Ammler> so we can follow :-)
17:03:15  <seberoth> hi
17:06:16  <Ammler> sali seberoth :-)
17:13:23  <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Feature #1541: index file for bundles (foobar) @
17:18:52  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1542 (New): Let glass works accept chemicals? (Hirundo) @
17:19:22  <andythenorth> Hirundo: do Glass Works need chemicals
17:19:23  <andythenorth> ?
17:19:39  * andythenorth will duck any question about 'fuel' for this industry :P
17:19:52  <Hirundo> They do use quite some additives IIRC
17:20:13  <andythenorth> what does wikipedia say?
17:21:24  <Hirundo> mainly soda, lime and some other stuff like MgO and Al2O3
17:21:47  <Hirundo> It's certainly chemical, though I'm not sure whether they fit your definition
17:21:53  <andythenorth> soda is valid
17:22:05  <andythenorth> are they petrochemicals?
17:22:22  <andythenorth> I'm wondering about another source of chemicals in a future economy?
17:22:28  <andythenorth> currently main source is refinery
17:22:55  <andythenorth>
17:22:58  <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for OpenTTD (at
17:24:19  <andythenorth>
17:24:20  <Webster> Title: Sodium carbonate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
17:25:10  <planetmaker> Al2O3 is korundum. Quite tough stuff ;-)
17:25:41  <planetmaker> andythenorth: Glass works could well use chemicals. And if it's only for colour glass :-)
17:25:55  <planetmaker> but it might not be obvious
17:26:27  <planetmaker> soda is no petro-chemical
17:26:38  <planetmaker> nor lime actually :-)
17:27:39  <andythenorth> minerals...
17:27:57  <andythenorth> I don't think another mine is needed.  And if it was, it would be potash / nitrates :)
17:28:13  * andythenorth ponders
17:28:28  <andythenorth> is it ok to have a mine that produces chemicals directly?
17:28:38  <andythenorth> do they have to be a processed cargo?
17:29:54  <Hirundo> If possible, yes, to not bypass the oil chain
17:31:08  <planetmaker> oh no. Not another mine ;-)
17:32:17  <planetmaker> A mind could directly provide minerals or chemicals, though
17:32:50  <planetmaker> Like soda, salt, fertilizers even
17:32:53  <andythenorth> ok, I'm afk for a bit.  Talk about it later
17:33:03  <andythenorth> I had something in mind for fertiliser / explosive (ENSP) in some economies
17:33:22  <andythenorth> (not in main economy, and ideally use existing cargo, no new ones :P )
17:33:34  <andythenorth> nitrate mine or such
17:33:45  <andythenorth> anyway, time to go :)
17:53:09  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
18:04:08  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r20836 to r20839 done (2 errors) -
18:14:21  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r20836 to r20839 done (2 errors) -
18:15:08  <Ammler> hmm, do we need to compile against unpatched openttd to count those errors too?
18:24:25  <Brot6> serverpatches: update from h575f8c4d to h72c89b58 done (4 errors) -
18:32:30  <andythenorth> so... any more thoughts on chemicals cargo?
18:43:26  <Hirundo> What did 'they' use pre-1900?
18:55:01  <andythenorth> 'stuff'
18:55:27  <andythenorth> lime, nitrates, phosphates, coal tar
18:55:29  <andythenorth> stuff
19:44:09  <andythenorth> Hirundo: planetmaker something like sulphur seems to be a historically important chemical
19:44:43  <Hirundo> george's ECS had it, then dropped it again IIRC
19:44:54  <andythenorth> Dyes are also important
19:45:07  <andythenorth> I'm starting to understand ECS design more and more
19:45:24  <andythenorth> although it does seem to be 'design by wikipedia' :P
19:45:54  <planetmaker> :-D
19:46:11  <Hirundo> I think your approach with more generic cargoes (e.g. supplies, metal, fruit/veggies) is more suited to OpenTTD's gameplay
19:46:51  <andythenorth> what I would like is one alternative source of chemicals to oil
19:46:55  * andythenorth ponders
19:47:08  <planetmaker> "source of chemicals to oil"?
19:47:20  <planetmaker> that doesn't parse to me ;-)
19:48:34  <andythenorth> ok
19:48:54  <andythenorth> an alternative input cargo for producing chemicals (additional to oil)
19:49:03  <planetmaker> ah :-)
19:49:26  <andythenorth> like phosphate or suplhate or rock salt or such
19:49:34  <planetmaker> potash or lime?
19:49:47  <andythenorth> lime is just from limestone?
19:49:51  <andythenorth> which is stone
19:50:01  <planetmaker> yes
19:50:26  <planetmaker> but treat it, crack it... you can make chemicals out of it
19:50:30  <andythenorth> hmm
19:50:41  <andythenorth> so how about 'mineral processor' or such
19:50:47  <andythenorth> stone -> chemicals
19:50:56  <andythenorth> could stone include phosphates etc?
19:50:57  <planetmaker> what kind of 'stone'?
19:51:02  <planetmaker> there's no stone cargo ;-)
19:51:13  <planetmaker> gravel or sand won't do for this
19:51:28  <andythenorth> we changed gravel to stonr
19:51:29  <andythenorth> stone /s
19:51:38  <planetmaker> oh, did we? I missed that
19:51:53  <andythenorth> it produces less whining about the cement plant :)
19:52:00  <planetmaker> yes, it's nicer.
19:52:09  <planetmaker> it could also directly be delivered to the construction yard
19:52:43  <andythenorth> don't unpick that long discussion :)
19:52:49  <andythenorth> you were away that weekend ;)
19:52:54  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 770:eb6b53fd5c9c: Change: make compilation not fail on missing -D$(TYPESIZE) ... (Rubidium) @
19:52:55  <planetmaker> uh?
19:53:37  <planetmaker> well... just stone->chemicals is...somewhat wrong.
19:53:41  <planetmaker> what other mines are there?
19:53:46  <andythenorth> we discussed the cement / stone / sand / building materials chain for a very long time recently :)
19:53:47  <planetmaker> potash?
19:53:50  <andythenorth> yup
19:53:58  <planetmaker> that to chemicals is nice
19:54:15  <andythenorth> I had some economy ideas sketched
19:54:17  <andythenorth> nitrate mine -> chemicals directly
19:54:25  <andythenorth> phosphate mine -> chemicals directly
19:55:36  <Terkhen> some people will go ballistic if they hear that :P
19:57:12  *** fanioz has quit IRC
19:57:16  <andythenorth> who? :)
19:58:59  <Terkhen> well, I remember some discussion about the blacksmith...
19:59:05  <andythenorth> :)
19:59:13  <andythenorth> btw I don't want new cargos
19:59:21  <andythenorth> just a source for chemicals in early games
19:59:35  <andythenorth> 'alchemist' :P
20:00:02  <Terkhen> beats my magic genie idea :)
20:03:20  <andythenorth> something like lime kiln might be best
20:03:24  <andythenorth> otherwise new cargos are needed :P
20:04:19  <andythenorth> hmmm
20:04:27  <andythenorth> one industry currently missing is guano mine
20:04:36  <andythenorth> guano = phosphate / nitrate (?)
20:05:35  <andythenorth> it is supposed to produce FMSP directly
20:06:45  * planetmaker has no idea what guano actually is except an assortment of letters :-P
20:06:53  <andythenorth> seagull poo
20:06:56  <andythenorth> or bat poo
20:06:59  <SmatZ> iguano?
20:07:12  <Terkhen> andythenorth: it was intended to replace old string names with new ones at the translations?
20:07:14  <planetmaker> hm... it's even the same in German
20:07:14  <andythenorth> terkhen might know:
20:07:15  <Webster> Title: Guano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
20:07:26  <andythenorth> Terkhen: unfortunately yes, sorry
20:07:43  <andythenorth> I have tried to identify string changes with a separate commit (where I remember)
20:07:53  <planetmaker> a guano mine could produce both, FMSP and something going to the chemical plant
20:08:04  <planetmaker> however that *something* is called
20:08:11  <Terkhen> hmmm... if the translations were not modified, I could know which strings are now incorrectly translated just by running the script
20:08:33  <planetmaker> "in the 19th century guano was a popular fertilizer" :-)
20:08:40  <andythenorth> the translation defines changed, but not the strings
20:08:46  <Terkhen> but those are detected as present translations
20:08:55  <Terkhen> I'm talking about the cotton -> natural fibres change
20:09:23  <planetmaker> hm, yes. andythenorth if you change a string. Delete it from translations
20:09:42  <planetmaker> Or they'll horribly break (from the wording)
20:09:58  <Terkhen> a script to detect "orphan" strings would be easy
20:10:03  <planetmaker> yep
20:10:33  <Terkhen> IIRC I have a diff somewhere, and a half done implementation of "check if a string has been updated since it has been translated"
20:11:15  <Terkhen> anyways, IMO the best is to not touch the translations and let the script take care of detecting all changes/missing strings
20:11:46  <planetmaker> :-)
20:15:00  <andythenorth> so I need to distinguish two issues:
20:15:03  <andythenorth> (1) string changes
20:15:06  <andythenorth> (2) define changes
20:15:14  <andythenorth> what is correct behaviour for each?
20:16:43  <Terkhen> <-- here it is
20:17:18  <Terkhen> the current script with that diff added should take care of define changes: it will list all missing strings and all not required string for a translation
20:17:41  <Terkhen> then the translator (assuming that he can run that script or get the results) can take care of the changes accordingly
20:18:14  <Terkhen> to take care of the strings changes, we would need something to list which strings have been changed
20:18:43  <Terkhen> I was working on something with hg blame, but it got harder than expected and I ended up forgetting about it
20:22:24  <andythenorth> so do I need to do anything? :o
20:25:07  <Terkhen> unless my idea about this is wrong, you don't
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20:28:28  * andythenorth learns about caliche
20:28:28  <andythenorth>
20:28:45  <andythenorth> it's a source of CaCO3, same as limestone is
20:29:05  <andythenorth> but also has chemical applications
20:29:17  <andythenorth> and is used in sugar refining :o
20:31:23  <andythenorth> Chilean Saltpeter, Guano and Chilean Caliche all seem to be related sources of industrial chemicals
20:32:22  <andythenorth> so a Guano mine would be sufficient to cover all that :)
20:32:34  <andythenorth> dunno if it needs a processor though
20:32:45  <andythenorth> can a mine produce chemicals direct?
20:32:58  <Brot6> NFORenum - Bug #1543 (New): Checking var 5F is not correct for Houses while CB 17 (George) @
20:33:52  <Terkhen> IIRC in early years guano was used directly
20:34:29  <Terkhen> about the mine... would a secondary industry for chemical serve any in game purpose?
20:36:12  <andythenorth> it provides a source of chemicals prior to 1884
20:36:14  <planetmaker> in what way secondary for chemicals?
20:36:29  <planetmaker> you mean a second industry supplying them?
20:36:34  <andythenorth> currently only source is refinery - available 1884 :)
20:36:51  <planetmaker> well. Chemistry wasn't big before that time...
20:36:58  <andythenorth> "Saltpeter works"
20:36:59  <andythenorth>
20:37:05  <Webster> Title: Humberstone and Santa Laura Saltpeter Works - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
20:39:23  <andythenorth> an alternative is a potash works
20:39:34  <andythenorth> consuming stone, wood and plant fibres :)
20:39:42  <andythenorth>
20:39:44  <Webster> Title: Potash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
20:44:25  <planetmaker> dbg: [grf] Scan complete, found 475 files <-- I guess my openttd data dir has too many files :-P
20:45:34  <Rubidium> fdupes :)
20:46:18  <planetmaker> it doesn't tell. at least by default
20:47:34  <andythenorth> planetmaker: potash as a new cargo? :P
20:47:52  <planetmaker> he...
20:47:59  <planetmaker> yet another mine?
20:47:59  <andythenorth> "3 slots free"
20:48:07  <planetmaker> what purpose does it serve?
20:48:07  <frosch123> what was the syntax for the commit message to close the task?
20:48:15  <andythenorth> source of chemicals
20:48:20  <planetmaker> Fix #XY: Nasty stuff
20:48:28  <andythenorth> potash -> processor -> chemicals
20:48:30  <planetmaker> where XY is the issue number
20:48:35  <andythenorth> potash just *is* chemicals though :P
20:48:58  <planetmaker> andythenorth: then the processor is a stone mill
20:49:08  <frosch123> thanks :)
20:49:36  <Brot6> NFORenum - Bug #1543 (Closed): Checking var 5F is not correct for Houses while CB 17 (George) @
20:49:36  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 771:47b8cf398428: Fix #1543: Action 2 variable 5F had wrong length for most f... (frosch) @
20:49:36  <Brot6> NFORenum - Bug #1543 (Closed): Checking var 5F is not correct for Houses while CB 17 (frosch) @
20:49:46  <andythenorth> wood + stone + plant fibres -> potash kiln -> chemicals
20:53:25  <Terkhen> I got my hg blame thing working; but of course it will say that the string changed even if the only change was resorting them alphabetically
20:54:00  <frosch123> try git, they are so proud to say they track content not files :p
20:54:43  <Terkhen> I should try something more intelligent than revision numbers :P
21:07:22  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Revision 23:362119856638: Fix: [DOC] Wrong URL for hg access (planetmaker) @
21:08:59  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1305: Detect missing strings (Terkhen) @
21:09:19  <andythenorth> good night
21:09:33  <planetmaker> nighty nigh
21:13:50  <planetmaker> Terkhen: obviously candy is only defined as express cargo class. which is... stuipd IMHO
21:14:52  <planetmaker> but that's why it wasn't transport-able by that wagon
21:21:20  <Terkhen> hm
21:21:54  <Terkhen> I couldn't find any refittable wagon that could transport it
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21:39:54  <planetmaker> not yet. But in the uncomitted stuff I play around with here :-)
21:42:00  <planetmaker> you could try r8 now ;-)
21:42:17  <planetmaker> ^ Terkhen
21:42:47  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 8:46fc5611bc5b: Fix #1528: Goods wagon transports also express goods (planetmaker) @
21:42:47  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1528 (Closed): Support for additional cargos (planetmaker) @
21:44:22  <planetmaker> graphics are not yet touched, though
21:46:42  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1528 (Assigned): Support for additional cargos (planetmaker) @
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