Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 5th October 2010:
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08:06:37  <planetmaker> moin
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13:06:46  <Brot6> SMITS - Revision 9:bc4183d913d8: Add: non-railtype bridge sprites (Froix) @
13:06:46  <Brot6> SMITS - Revision 10:e288f6c42753: Change: Update source files. (Froix) @
13:06:46  <Brot6> SMITS - Revision 11:a2b6dc9a87aa: Feature: Added support for TTDPatch and ability to disable rail... (Froix) @
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14:16:54  <planetmaker> Rubidium: should you be able to spare some time, I'd like to lobby for something like I attached here:
14:25:26  * Rubidium misses the GUI work
14:25:51  <planetmaker> in what way?
14:28:01  <Rubidium> showing all the modification stuff makes people think you can actually change it
14:28:16  <planetmaker> hm?
14:28:24  <Rubidium> not showing the modification stuff will make that less apparent, and thus they're less likely to search for the setting to override it
14:28:52  <Rubidium> furthermore I doubt a in-GUI setting is the best way to hide the override
14:28:56  <planetmaker> you mean... I should not even display the load button?
14:29:17  <planetmaker> Well. There's two: one, non-gui which enables current behaviour
14:29:27  <planetmaker> And one which allows to load games with compatible newgrfs
14:30:07  <Rubidium> ah yes, that's the other idea we had. A NewGRF is only compatible if it explicitly says it's compatible
14:30:17  <Rubidium> needs some action14 work though
14:30:44  <planetmaker> well. Currently the 2nd patch assumes compatible = same GRFID
14:31:10  <Rubidium> that's something else we want to get rid of :)
14:31:22  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
14:31:44  <Rubidium> same GRFID & loaded NewGRF says it is compatible with NewGRF from savegame -> compatible loading, otherwise: missing NewGRF
14:32:08  <Rubidium> that'll break "compatible" loading of old NewGRFs, but that shouldn't be a big problem
14:32:49  <planetmaker> so... GLC_COMPATIBLE --> GLC_SAMEGRFID
14:32:58  <planetmaker> and re-define the meaning of GLC_COMPATIBLE
14:33:11  <Rubidium> yeah, somewhat
14:34:34  <Rubidium> so the "proper" implementation (IMO) of this is quite a big lump bigger than just those patches
14:35:00  <planetmaker> so... only with a14 addition and not loading same GRFID anymore - unless the hidden option is set?
14:35:51  <planetmaker> which means, the compatibility setting for a14 has to be the first thing
14:36:37  <Rubidium> yes, and the NewGRF GUI not showing the modification related stuff
14:37:21  <Rubidium> and for what it's worth, the action14 stuff would be copying the behaviour from AIs
14:37:31  <planetmaker> only in cases where not called from the main menu?
14:37:46  <planetmaker> (^ @ GUI)
14:38:20  <Rubidium> yes, unless that hidden setting is set and you're in-game
14:38:27  <planetmaker> yes
14:38:39  <Rubidium> i.e. for loading games you should always use the smaller version
14:38:54  <Rubidium> though IIRC Albert was/has been working on that already
14:39:36  <planetmaker> oh, I see. I shall talk to him then
14:39:59  <planetmaker> :-)
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16:10:55  <Brot6> nml: update from r811 to r819 done -
16:20:20  <Brot6> firs: update from r1431 to r1441 done (22 errors) -
16:21:15  <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from r32 to r39 done (1 errors) -
16:21:59  <Brot6> smts: update from r8 to r11 done -
16:22:11  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r615), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r68), airportsplus (r63), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r7), comic-houses (r71), fish (r394), frenchtowns (r4), grfcodec (r772), heqs (r380), indonesiantowns (r33), metrotrackset (r56), newgrf_makefile (r219), nforenum (r506), nml (r819), nutracks (r117), ogfx-trees (ERROR r35), ogfxplus (r42), opengfx (r550), openmsx (r97), opensfx
16:22:11  <Brot6> (r97), snowlinemod (r45), swedishrails (r182), swisstowns (r20), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r25), ttrs (r23), worldairlinersset (r664)
16:22:59  <Rubidium> ``Perfection (in design) is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but rather when there is nothing more to take away.'' <- that apparantly applies to theses as well :(
16:26:26  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: airportsplus, belarusiantowns (3 errors) (Diffsize: 21), frenchtowns (4 errors) (Diffsize: 9), indonesiantowns (4 errors), ogfxplus (Diffsize: 6), swisstowns (Diffsize: 4731)
16:26:42  <planetmaker> hm?
16:27:05  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Bug #1596 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
16:27:58  <Rubidium> apparantly I was a bit too "verbose" (for a lack of a better word) in the "future works" chapter
16:28:21  <planetmaker> I'm still missing the context of your remark :-)
16:28:47  <Rubidium> oh, never read the cathedral and the bazaar?
16:29:20  <planetmaker> I've seen and read the quotation you made. But I didn't read that book nor do I see what you try to say :-)
16:29:25  <planetmaker> Which might be related ;-)
16:29:44  <Rubidium> that I've wasted time writing stuff
16:30:02  <planetmaker> he :S
16:30:12  <planetmaker> on anything in particular?
16:31:01  <Rubidium> that 100-ish page PDF called "thesis.pdf"
16:31:27  <planetmaker> I feared that answer... that's not good :-(
16:32:25  <Rubidium> luckily it's "only" half a page
16:34:38  <Rubidium> on the other hand I'm happy with the feedback
16:35:14  <Rubidium> (actually one chapter has been turned into a paper and has been accepted)
16:35:39  <planetmaker> congratz :-)
16:35:56  <planetmaker> and half a page... so what? :-)
16:37:00  <Rubidium> thanks and true, but it made me think of the cathedral and the bazaar
16:37:18  <planetmaker> he :-)
16:38:13  <Rubidium> though my supervisor is going to present it at the conference
16:38:37  <planetmaker> what's bad about it?
16:39:04  <Rubidium> nothing, besides it might've been interesting to participate in a conference once
16:39:32  <planetmaker> oh. You are NOT going? :-(
16:39:57  <Rubidium> yeah, the university couldn't sponsor a trip to Reno and neither could I
16:40:11  <Rubidium> and I quite dislike Reno
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16:40:30  <Rubidium> and it would've been after graduation if my backup didn't get corrupt
16:41:52  <planetmaker> meh
16:41:53  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1597 (Confirmed): internal compiler error with SwedishRails (planetmaker) @
16:42:03  <planetmaker> Reno is... a town?
16:42:25  <planetmaker> nevada, US?
16:42:33  <Rubidium> yes, that crappy shithole
16:42:42  <planetmaker> I don't know it :-)
16:43:12  <Rubidium> I, sadly enough, do know it
16:44:55  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Bug #1596 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
16:44:55  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Bug #1596 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @
16:45:48  <planetmaker> you could have gone and then side-tripped to Montreal ;-)
16:46:21  <Rubidium> planetmaker: that would have been a bit too far for the group I was with
16:46:34  <Rubidium> and I didn't have the free time in Boston or NY to actually do it
16:46:42  <Rubidium> I did research it though
16:46:43  <planetmaker> well... do plane travel prices care about the group?
16:47:01  <Rubidium> hmm, nope... but Reno-Montreal is still a long way
16:49:40  <Rubidium> and 6 weeks in the US for less than 1500 euros including air travel is pretty nice
16:50:41  <Rubidium> adding 500 euros of air travel to Montreal and back isn't
16:51:43  <Rubidium> even then... I hope to get a good (paying) job and a cheap house :)
16:52:00  <Rubidium> then my budgets aren't so small anymore
16:55:34  <planetmaker> :-)
16:57:05  * Rubidium is happy knowing C++ though. Gives much more interesting jobs than C#, at least that's how it looks
16:57:29  <frosch123> hmm, rb is going to emigrate to canada?
16:58:17  <Rubidium> that's currently not planned
16:58:56  <planetmaker> :-)
16:59:18  <Rubidium> although never say never
17:00:04  * Rubidium would love to try Canada, or Japan, or Australia/NZ
17:01:24  <planetmaker> all would be fascinating indeed
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17:16:45  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1597 (Closed): internal compiler error with SwedishRails (planetmaker) @
17:16:45  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 820:3e4fd44b732b: Fix #1597 (r814): use enumerate when we need th... (yexo) @
17:16:45  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1597 (Closed): internal compiler error with SwedishRails (yexo) @
17:17:58  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Code Review #1586: Another way of allowing comments in NFO (yexo) @
17:19:48  <Alberth> good idea !
17:35:31  <Alberth> any news on the (swiss) town names ?
17:39:26  <Rubidium> it's full of holes?
17:39:44  <planetmaker> covered with cheese?
17:51:48  <Hirundo> Yexo: any comments on #1532 ?
17:51:48  <Brot6> Hirundo: Yexo: #1532 is "NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1532: Review 'cargo_type' property - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
17:58:53  <Yexo> Hirundo: you set "cargo_type" to 0xFF multiple times if multiple refit properties are set
17:59:09  <Hirundo> indeed. Does it hurt?
18:00:08  <Yexo> no, but it'd be nice if it ddidn't do that
18:00:24  <Yexo> I can't see a clean way to do that though, so maybe your current patch is the best solution
18:02:06  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 821:445c05f48837: Change: Don't allow the user to set the cargo_t... (Hirundo) @
18:02:06  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 822:38e7a8c2af57: Doc: Improve the documentation about cargo clas... (Hirundo) @
18:02:45  <planetmaker> meh. I gues OpenGFX+ Trains is broken now ;-)
18:06:10  <Hirundo> hmm... varaction2 code contains quite some duplication
18:07:22  <Hirundo> Perhaps it should be made into a class, so the code can be split into methods without pushing lots of internal state around
18:09:22  <Hirundo> you opened the issue yourself pm :)
18:09:49  <Alberth> the alternative would be to bundle the data in a class, and push that around
18:09:56  <Yexo> Hirundo: don't forget to close the issue
18:10:14  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r20894 to r20903 done -
18:10:24  <planetmaker> hm... which issue?
18:10:32  <Yexo> #1532
18:10:33  <Brot6> Yexo: #1532 is "NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1532: Review 'cargo_type' property - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
18:11:14  <planetmaker> ah. Yes, setting it by default to 0xFF seems reasonable IMHO
18:11:54  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1532 (Closed): Review 'cargo_type' property (Hirundo) @
18:12:26  <planetmaker> But it needs to be set to something reasonable or 0xFF. So I used 0xFF meanwhile on OpenGFX+Trains. I don't complain, no worries :-)
18:13:29  <planetmaker> I don't quite understand what 'append_cargo_type' does
18:13:59  <Yexo> it returns a function
18:15:01  <Yexo> prop['append_function'] contains the function returned by append_cargo_type, which is a lambda function that returns a list with a single property
18:15:23  <planetmaker> hm. And the result will be... ?
18:15:26  <Hirundo> thus eliminating the need to write one function per feature, because of the different feature number, while keeping the 'append_function' code somewhat generic
18:15:33  <planetmaker> ah
18:15:38  <planetmaker> I see
18:16:15  <Hirundo> In c++, you'd probably write a small template to pass an argument at compile time
18:16:43  <Alberth> <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: ... swisstowns (r20) ...  <-- yay, townnames is deterministic :)
18:17:46  <Alberth> Rubidium: it is "sorry, I did not have time to write a short thesis" :)
18:17:55  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1442:5d95032d9c49: Fix: add missing strings to remove_de... (Terkhen) @
18:17:55  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1443:0da0dfb5c3e7: Change: update Spanish translation. (Terkhen) @
18:18:11  <Alberth> but congratulations
18:19:31  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r20894 to r20903 done -
18:28:38  <Brot6> serverpatches: update from h660fd827 to h32c51672 done (2 errors) -
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18:31:42  <andythenorth_> hi hi
18:32:39  <Yexo> #1583 means we also need PIL for nfo-only output
18:32:40  <Brot6> Yexo: #1583 is "NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1583: Autodetect palette - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
18:34:18  <planetmaker> the NFO currently only makes sense, if pcx files are used.
18:34:30  <planetmaker> so it doesn't mean any additional limitation
18:34:47  <planetmaker> All NML projects I know use png ;-)
18:37:34  <planetmaker> ^ Yexo
18:37:45  <Yexo> townname grf don't
18:37:55  <Yexo> so careful coding is still needed to not need PIL for those
18:38:00  <planetmaker> or is the issue that you'd like to not depend on it?
18:38:09  <planetmaker> I mean... nmlc anyway depends on it.
18:38:21  <planetmaker> why would it be an issue?
18:38:36  <planetmaker> except being... not so nice :-)
18:56:40  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 823:e3996862a3fa: Add: Allow writing comment after NFO bytes with... (Alberth) @
18:56:40  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Code Review #1586 (Closed): Another way of allowing comments in NFO (Alberth) @
19:08:20  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 824:3fbd65752875: Change: always try to import PIL and only give ... (yexo) @
19:08:20  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 825:ffbd8d9a1f77: Feature #1583: detect the palettes used in spri... (yexo) @
19:18:27  <Hirundo> Yexo: how does palette detection / action14 interact with toyland palettes?
19:18:42  <Yexo> not
19:19:13  <Yexo> no action14 will be written ify ou use the toyland palettes
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19:23:41  <Hirundo> Are there any other callbacks, besides 36, that are actually (in function) multiple callbacks ?
19:26:17  <Yexo> 18
19:27:43  <Yexo> 2B essentially returns multiple values, maybe that also needs some special care
19:28:42  <Hirundo> there are more CBs that e.g. return some stuff in register 0x100
19:29:32  <Yexo> I don't think there are any others
19:30:51  <frosch123> there are callbacks with loops
19:31:00  <frosch123> which are called multiple times
19:31:15  <frosch123> like production callback, cargo suffix, and industry cargos
19:32:22  <Hirundo> That is (at least for now) mostly a documentation issue
19:41:39  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1275: Biorefinery (andythenorth) @
19:41:39  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1275: Biorefinery (andythenorth) @
19:43:38  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1435:3ef09404a410: Change: some texts for Biorefinery (andythenorth) @
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