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00:14:41 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 00:25:04 *** fanioz has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 01:15:25 *** thgergo has quit IRC 01:18:58 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 04:48:51 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trees - Revision 39:ed0e1243500f: Add: 1 tropical tree (Froix) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trees/repository/revisions/ed0e1243500f 04:48:51 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trees - Revision 40:756e3b149dc1: Fix #1608: swapped tree activation values back to orig... (Froix) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trees/repository/revisions/756e3b149dc1 04:48:51 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trees - Bug #1608 (Closed): Trees are not enabled by default (Froix) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1608#change-4178 04:51:07 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trees - Bug #1608 (Closed): Trees are not enabled by default (Froix) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1608#change-4178 05:03:34 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trees - Revision 41:0bacacb35f0d: Added tag 0.2.2 for changeset 756e3b149dc1 (Froix) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trees/repository/revisions/0bacacb35f0d 05:03:42 <Brot6> ogfx-trees: update from 0.2.1 to 0.2.2 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trees/releases/0.2.2 06:31:35 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1465:895d62616bab: Change: minor tweak to changelog (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/895d62616bab 06:31:35 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1466:9d8f1da294f1: Change: update readme (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/9d8f1da294f1 06:31:35 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1467:9660596cff58: Change: update credits :) (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/9660596cff58 06:37:19 *** andythenorth___ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 06:45:20 *** andythenorth___ has quit IRC 07:04:45 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:04:45 *** andythenorth_ has left #openttdcoop.devzone 07:04:49 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:04:49 *** andythenorth_ has left #openttdcoop.devzone 07:04:52 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:05:52 <andythenorth_> morning 07:15:49 <Brot6> firs: update from 0.4.0 to 0.5 done (1 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/0.5 07:15:56 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1468:7e93b5ba26f6: Added tag .05 for changeset 9660596cff58 (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/7e93b5ba26f6 07:15:56 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1469:6e4b2c0de843: Removed tag .05 (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/6e4b2c0de843 07:15:56 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1470:ca2d989c9327: Added tag 0.5 for changeset 6e4b2c0de843 (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/ca2d989c9327 07:26:13 <andythenorth_> Ammler: planetmaker hmmm 07:26:26 <andythenorth_> you wanted me to use 0.x.0 as tag name? 07:33:10 <Ammler> up to you :-) 07:33:30 <Ammler> you shouldn't change it too often... 07:33:55 <andythenorth_> I'll amend it 07:34:07 <andythenorth_> someone was quite keen that I use 0.x.0 07:36:31 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1471:400600b7110e: Added tag 0.5.0 for changeset ca2d989... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/400600b7110e 07:36:33 <Brot6> firs: update from 0.5 to 0.5.0 done (1 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/0.5.0 07:37:30 <andythenorth_> hmm 07:37:33 <andythenorth_> I broken my repo 07:37:38 <andythenorth_> :P 07:37:45 <planetmaker> clone new 07:38:08 <andythenorth_> I fixed it again :) 07:38:13 <andythenorth_> rollback is my friend 07:38:14 <planetmaker> and good morning :-) 07:38:26 <planetmaker> aye. If rollback is your fix, broken is the wrong word :-P 07:38:57 <andythenorth_> I wanted to remove the 0.5 tag, but that seems to create a new head 07:39:06 <planetmaker> yes 07:39:31 <andythenorth_> hmm 07:39:34 <andythenorth_> maybe I just did it wrong 07:39:36 <andythenorth_> now fixed 07:39:36 <Ammler> well, you used 0.x for branches, so it was a good idea to use 0.x.x for tags 07:39:38 <planetmaker> once you pushed something you cannot rollback 07:39:52 <andythenorth_> we should now have FIRS 0.5.0 07:39:56 <andythenorth_> and 0.5 tag should be removed 07:39:57 <planetmaker> Nice :-) 07:40:00 <planetmaker> congrats 07:40:10 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: that'd be a separate commit, if you like it. 07:40:19 <planetmaker> But then 0.5 != 0.5.0 and it doesn't really hurt 07:40:22 <andythenorth_> it's done :) 07:40:25 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1472:47f29e5cb435: Removed tag 0.5 (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/47f29e5cb435 07:40:39 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: if you like it removed you "just" edit .hgtags 07:40:45 <planetmaker> and commit that as usual 07:40:53 <andythenorth_> hg tag --remove seemed to work 07:41:00 <andythenorth_> I don't know why I got a merge conflict 07:41:04 <andythenorth_> the first time I tried 07:41:18 <andythenorth_> anyway 07:41:19 <planetmaker> rollback and such does not work well with .hgtags 07:41:22 <andythenorth_> md5 sum checking time 07:41:25 <planetmaker> look at .hgtags now 07:41:31 <planetmaker> it's a bit ugly ;-) 07:41:41 <andythenorth_> he 07:41:52 <planetmaker> three lines which reference 0.5 now 07:41:58 <andythenorth_> manually remove? 07:42:01 <andythenorth_> or ignore? 07:42:08 <planetmaker> both is an option :-) 07:42:10 <Ammler> use strip 07:42:15 <andythenorth_> I don't really care either way 07:42:21 <andythenorth_> I don't have strip enabled 07:42:24 <andythenorth_> I did enable it 07:42:28 <planetmaker> :-D 07:42:31 <andythenorth_> then I screwed my repo using it 07:42:38 <andythenorth_> so I disabled it again 07:42:58 <planetmaker> the easiest way IMHO would be to manually edit .hgtags 07:43:04 <Ammler> yes, morning btw. :-) 07:43:24 <planetmaker> but... it could as well be done later when .hgtags needs tinkering again anyway ;-) 07:43:33 <andythenorth_> md5 sums check outy 07:43:41 <andythenorth_> who wants to do the bananas upload? 07:43:44 <Ammler> I assume, you simply forgot to update to tip 07:43:49 <andythenorth_> probably 07:44:26 <planetmaker> Ammler: not sure. .hgtags behaves odd 07:44:30 <andythenorth_> Ammler: yes that was the problem, reading my terminal 07:44:35 <planetmaker> might even be considered a hg bug 07:44:54 <Ammler> 0.5 < 0.5.0 so all fine 07:44:57 <planetmaker> a hg rollback does NOT change .hgtags 07:45:04 <andythenorth_> I removed 0.5 while on the 0.5.0 tag 07:45:07 <planetmaker> so andythenorth_ IMHO fell for the same bug I did already, too 07:45:16 <andythenorth_> that's going to create a new head - it's not in tip? 07:45:24 <planetmaker> Maybe I should report that to hg :-) 07:45:46 <andythenorth_> Ammler: want to banana-rise FIRS? 07:46:46 <Ammler> just don't look in that file and sue hg tags ;-) 07:47:00 <Ammler> use* 07:49:24 <andythenorth_> FIRS 0.5.0 released 10/10/10 07:49:26 <planetmaker> Ammler: still it's not right 07:49:30 <andythenorth_> should have released it at 10:10 07:49:35 <planetmaker> a hg rollback should not leave anything to commit 07:49:38 <Ammler> hg rollback does revert the commit 07:49:38 <planetmaker> which it does 07:49:40 <planetmaker> and that's bad 07:49:45 <planetmaker> and a tag is a commit 07:49:48 <Ammler> but not revert the file 07:49:54 <Ammler> which is fine 07:50:05 <planetmaker> Not quite with .hgtags 07:50:12 <planetmaker> as I don't edit it. 07:50:14 <Ammler> I can do that, yes :-) 07:50:16 *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:50:25 <planetmaker> It's more of an automatically created one 07:50:35 <Alberth> moin 07:50:41 <planetmaker> moin :-) 07:53:02 <Ammler> (done) 07:53:17 <Rubidium> moi y'all 07:53:30 <Ammler> firs has nightly restriction? 07:53:39 <andythenorth_> Ammler: can't remember 07:53:49 <andythenorth_> it should degrade gracefully far as I know 07:53:53 <Rubidium> speaking of nightly restrictions, nforenum could be ditched from the nightly compiles 07:54:12 <Ammler> planetmaker: of course 07:54:18 <Ammler> rollback is not revert 07:54:36 <Ammler> that would be very bad 07:54:58 <Ammler> if you push, you get warning about 2 heads, then you rollback pull and push again 07:55:08 <Ammler> that wouldn't be possible 07:55:28 <Ammler> mörgerli Alberth 07:57:08 <Alberth> Ammler: the townname grfs seem stable now 07:58:26 <Alberth> do you know whether the probabilities seem right as well? 07:58:58 <planetmaker> Ammler: nevertheless. I think it is with .hgtags a bug 07:59:04 <planetmaker> or at least unwanted behaviour 07:59:10 <planetmaker> I'll report it 07:59:32 <andythenorth_> yay 0.5.0 on bananas 07:59:33 <andythenorth_> thanks Ammler 08:03:00 <Ammler> Alberth: you missed my answer on your question at Friday :-) 08:03:25 <Alberth> obviously 08:03:26 <Ammler> :-) 08:03:40 <Ammler> as said, rollback must not revert 08:04:16 <Ammler> Alberth: you should ask me next month again :-) 08:05:00 <Ammler> my Internet connection is quite limited the next 3 weeks 08:06:50 <Alberth> yeah, you don't seem to be much around these days 08:11:50 *** andythenorth__ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:12:11 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:15:40 *** fanioz has quit IRC 08:16:38 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 08:23:36 <andythenorth__> coop game with FIRS 0.5.0? 08:23:41 <andythenorth__> I could use some feedback :) 08:23:49 <planetmaker> :-) 08:24:09 <andythenorth__> maybe I should play a coop game :o 08:24:18 <andythenorth__> I never seem to be able to join MP servers though 08:24:46 <planetmaker> how so? 08:25:40 <andythenorth__> wrong game version, wrong grfs, 08:26:14 <andythenorth__> there's always something :) 08:26:46 <Alberth> yeah, nobody seems to play with current trunk :p 08:29:24 <Alberth> andythenorth__: rounding the deliveries up to a multiple of 8t is complicated? 08:29:47 <andythenorth__> to code? 08:30:05 <andythenorth__> just take max(delivery, 8t) 08:30:08 <andythenorth__> it's one line of code 08:30:15 <andythenorth__> (needs adding in several places though) 08:30:30 <andythenorth__> Alberth: feel free to patch :) 08:31:40 <Alberth> I was considering that, but it implies I have to read and understand NFO :( 08:32:04 <Alberth> s/was/am/ 08:33:02 <andythenorth__> the only problem is that you don't understand nfo *yet* 08:33:04 <andythenorth__> :D 08:33:08 <andythenorth__> nfo is trivial 08:33:19 <andythenorth__> way easier than proper programming languages 08:33:33 <andythenorth__> there's no question of style or optimisation, it either works or doesn't 08:38:21 <Alberth> even assembly languages uses words to define the instruction code 08:39:03 <Alberth> I always get lost in what number means what 08:39:47 <planetmaker> calling nfo trivial is one of the understatements of the month at least 08:40:16 <planetmaker> it's like calling cpu design trivial 08:41:44 <planetmaker> "In mathematics, the adjective trivial is frequently used for objects (for examples, groups or topological spaces) that have a very simple structure. The noun triviality usually refers to a simple technical aspect of some proof or definition." 08:42:33 <andythenorth__> ach 08:42:48 <andythenorth__> it's probably a semantic argument about structure then 08:43:06 <Alberth> or rather, lack of it :) 08:43:20 <andythenorth__> FWIW I think the definition of entropy is wrong, so I'll probably be out on a limb in any argument here 08:43:50 <planetmaker> entropy is the only way we can define whether time progresses or recesses 08:44:31 <planetmaker> it's a measure for information content 08:44:34 <andythenorth__> I don't understand why entropy is taught in school / university as the 'tendency towards ultimate chaos' 08:45:08 <planetmaker> it's true 08:45:12 <andythenorth__> tendency is towards no differentials in the system, which means ultimate order 08:45:16 <andythenorth__> not ultimate chaos 08:45:19 <planetmaker> nope. 08:45:32 <planetmaker> Order means that things are distinguishable 08:45:54 <planetmaker> that different places have different properties 08:46:14 <andythenorth__> so a regular grid of identical objects is not ordered? 08:46:18 <planetmaker> at maximum entropy each place has the same probability for everything 08:46:27 <planetmaker> andythenorth__: a _grid_ is orderd 08:46:34 <planetmaker> As not every place is equal 08:46:38 <planetmaker> or you'd have no grid 08:46:49 <planetmaker> air is at max. entropy 08:46:51 <planetmaker> Not your table 08:47:03 <andythenorth__> I think the table is chaotic :) 08:47:07 <planetmaker> :-D 08:47:12 <andythenorth__> the air seems neatly ordered to me 08:47:15 <planetmaker> ok, mine, too. But only the things on it 08:47:21 <andythenorth__> the table is in a highly unstable state 08:47:35 <planetmaker> max entropy is most stable 08:47:46 <planetmaker> unstable = highly non-entropic 08:47:56 <andythenorth__> I suppose I equate order with stability 08:48:02 <andythenorth__> a bit like the chinese system of government 08:48:15 <planetmaker> order doesn't mean stable 08:48:25 <andythenorth__> mathematically not I guess 08:48:29 <planetmaker> maximum entropy is necessarily the most stable state 08:48:31 <andythenorth__> I did politics :P 08:48:38 <planetmaker> as nothing can (without external input) deviate again from it 08:48:53 <planetmaker> except the random deviations 08:48:57 <andythenorth__> so nfo 08:49:05 <planetmaker> ? 08:49:28 *** andythenorth__ has quit IRC 08:49:37 <planetmaker> meh 08:50:27 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:50:57 <andythenorth_> brb 08:51:40 <planetmaker> he :-) 08:52:56 <Alberth> andythenorth_: each state is equally likely, it is just that there are a lot more states that we consider 'chaos' 08:53:16 <planetmaker> jo 08:53:29 <planetmaker> like... consider to roll a die for every letter you write. 08:54:27 <planetmaker> Each letter equally likely. How good are the chances that you'll roll 50000 die(the length of FIRS) with 40 sides (amount of characters used) and come up with the source code? 08:59:59 * Alberth rounds that down to 0 :) 09:02:07 <planetmaker> :-) 09:02:23 <planetmaker> a probability of 0 doesn't mean it cannot happen :-) 09:02:37 <planetmaker> and I can prove it ;-) 09:03:25 <planetmaker> and ... actually the amount of characters rather is like 70 ;-) 09:03:28 <planetmaker> case matters 09:03:43 <planetmaker> @calc 2*26 + 10 09:03:43 <Webster> planetmaker: 62 09:03:56 <planetmaker> probably even more than 70. 09:04:42 <planetmaker> tab, space, []|/#"().,-_' ... 09:06:01 <andythenorth_> so nfo...not trivial? :P 09:07:06 <Alberth> planetmaker: the chance of winning a lottery is also not 0, yet I do not even bother trying 09:07:22 <planetmaker> yeah. same here :-) 09:07:32 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: by the mathematical definition of 'trivial' it's not 09:07:46 <planetmaker> (nor IMHO by the common-sense one) 09:08:13 <planetmaker> or do you know out-of head whether and how I can make sure that a train shows proper shunting behaviour? 09:08:23 <planetmaker> and explain it in two short sentences ;-) 09:10:11 *** fanioz has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:10:23 <andythenorth_> could you do that for a higher level language? 09:11:03 <andythenorth_> anyway 09:11:26 <andythenorth_> Alberth: templates/template_secondary_action23_A.pnfo 09:11:35 <andythenorth_> is one of the three main production templates 09:11:51 <andythenorth_> FWIW I think there's a mathematical error in it somewhere, but I'm not sure where. It just smells wrong 09:12:27 <andythenorth_> actions A0 - 01 define the production handling 09:13:33 <andythenorth_> actions A3, A4, A5 are where a max() needs inserting 09:14:06 <andythenorth_> hmm 09:14:11 <andythenorth_> there are two wrong comments there 09:15:22 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1473:9b4e757bdf27: Cleanup: unhelpfully wrong comments i... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/9b4e757bdf27 09:18:12 <planetmaker> [11:10] <andythenorth_> could you do that for a higher level language? <-- also higher-level languages are not trivial 09:19:44 <andythenorth_> no 09:20:03 <andythenorth_> in a relative definition, I find nfo more trivial than higher level languages 09:20:13 <planetmaker> certainly not 09:20:21 <andythenorth_> mathematically perhaps not 09:20:29 <planetmaker> also not common-sense trivial 09:20:55 <planetmaker> trivial implies some sort of 'obvious' 09:20:59 <andythenorth_> nah 09:21:02 <planetmaker> a word I'd never associate with nfo 09:21:09 <andythenorth_> action 0 is obvious 09:21:17 <planetmaker> is it? 09:21:23 <planetmaker> even the name is not ;-) 09:21:38 <andythenorth_> it's just a dict with no characters indicating structure 09:22:03 <andythenorth_> not even a dict really - just name/value pairs 09:22:12 <andythenorth_> and no wasted characters for separators or anything 09:22:41 <planetmaker> in order for an action0 to be understandable, I have to know both, the meaning of the properties, I have to know their size (which need a lookup each - and they differ between features!) and so on 09:22:54 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: it may be efficient. But not trivial 09:22:56 <planetmaker> Not a single bit 09:22:58 <Alberth> escept those wasted characters ensure that a compiler can check you don't mess up 09:23:12 <andythenorth_> trivial may be the wrong word 09:23:23 <planetmaker> that's what I'm telling you. 09:23:31 <planetmaker> and it's not even easy 09:23:43 <andythenorth_> there should be a word like trivial that applies 09:23:46 <andythenorth_> 'blunt' 09:23:49 <planetmaker> as you need to learn EVERY vocabulary, as there's NO logical pattern the properties follow 09:24:24 <planetmaker> the principle is somewhat easy for action0 09:24:34 <andythenorth_> stark? 09:24:45 <planetmaker> but writing nfo on that basis is neither trivial nor easy 09:24:58 <andythenorth_> compare a standard varaction 2 to a sophisticated python mapping 09:25:05 <andythenorth_> the python mapping is way more elegant 09:25:13 <Alberth> for making the original game, NFO may have been sufficient, but it should have been replaced with something more sane a loooong time ago 09:25:20 <andythenorth_> ach, I like nfo 09:25:22 <planetmaker> :-) 09:25:29 <andythenorth_> it's relaxing 09:25:32 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: you _know_ it 09:25:33 <andythenorth_> just follow the spec 09:25:41 <andythenorth_> and ask frosch when you get stuck.... 09:25:43 <planetmaker> but... that's the only advantage really there is to it 09:26:10 <planetmaker> following specs can be done with _any_ sane programming language and is no argument 09:27:12 <andythenorth_> anyways....Alberth can you read that industry code? 09:27:24 <planetmaker> basically I dispute your argument which is "I can do it, so everyone can do it w/o effort". And that is simply not true ;-) 09:27:45 <andythenorth_> maybe it just suits my brain 09:27:50 <andythenorth_> I'm not a very good programmer 09:28:11 <planetmaker> FIRS meanwhile has a complexity. And the varaction2 things used there as well as tile layouts and stuff are _advanced_ nfo things. It really taks A LOT of time to get into that 09:28:22 <andythenorth_> and with nfo I dont have to be 09:28:24 <planetmaker> and the nfo language certainly is no help in doing so 09:28:37 <planetmaker> as it's not human readable 09:28:53 <Rubidium> human readable is subjective 09:29:09 <planetmaker> sure. As long as a string of ascii characters is readable... 09:29:41 <Alberth> basically anything is readable with practice (eg chineese characters) 09:29:59 <planetmaker> :-) 09:30:44 <Alberth> even the sound of a running machine gives information for some one experienced 09:30:53 <planetmaker> :-D 09:30:58 <planetmaker> Like the error beeps of bios... 09:31:02 <andythenorth_> 1[]/~.QZZZZZZZZZZZZZ`] 09:31:11 <andythenorth_> '[\§?"| 09:31:12 <andythenorth_> { 09:31:27 <Alberth> andythenorth_: I think so 09:32:00 * andythenorth_ let the baby near the keys 09:33:34 <planetmaker> 5733 * 14 06 0D 82 28 0D 82 2C 0D 82 38 0D 82 3C FF 09:33:36 <planetmaker> 5734 * 136 00 06 01 01 0A 0D 00 01 0B 0A 00 00 01 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0C 0A 00 00 02 0A 00 00 09:33:37 <planetmaker> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 54 00 00 00 5A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 00 00 00 5B 00 00 00 <-- readable :-D 09:38:18 <andythenorth_> what will make FIRS '1.0'? 09:38:34 <Rubidium> the openttdcoop compile farm? 09:38:47 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1619 (Closed): Update readme for 0.5 (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1619#change-4179 09:40:27 <Ammler> andythenorth_: what is the suffix -release for? 09:40:46 <andythenorth_> I don't know 09:40:54 <andythenorth_> it was a pre-existing pattern 09:40:59 <Ammler> :-) 09:41:02 <andythenorth_> I assumed it was there for a reason 09:41:24 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: is #1565 still relevant? 09:41:24 <Brot6> andythenorth_: planetmaker: #1565 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/1565 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1565: cotton in arctic? - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 09:42:08 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1546 (Closed): Textile Mill industry window text wrong (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1546#change-4180 09:42:36 <Ammler> andythenorth_: now, you are making your "long" break? ;-) 09:42:49 <andythenorth_> cleaning house 09:43:17 <andythenorth_> there is some stuff to do for 0.5.1 that's worth doing 09:43:40 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1435 (Closed): Consider merging some town industries (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1435#change-4181 09:43:40 <andythenorth_> but really I need time for more feedback, which means slowing development and not breaking everyone's savegame so much 09:45:04 <planetmaker> :-) 09:45:49 * Alberth ponders a NFO disassembler 09:46:47 <planetmaker> hm... grfcodec? 09:47:10 <Alberth> that's a GRF disassembler :) 09:47:53 <andythenorth_> grf2html 09:47:57 <andythenorth_> frosch did it already 09:48:09 <andythenorth_> also in-game newgrf debug tools to some extent... 09:48:27 <andythenorth_> I learnt nfo partly by using grf2html 09:48:31 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #832 (Closed): No source of cotton (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/832#change-4188 09:48:31 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #833 (Closed): Textile Mill not accepting cotton (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/833#change-4189 09:48:58 <andythenorth_> play FIRS games, then I can ask lots of questions :D 09:50:02 <Hirundo> I presume that porting my current FIRS 0.4 game to 0.5 is not possible? 09:50:15 <andythenorth_> expect much breakage 09:51:39 <Ammler> worth a try, isn't? 09:51:59 <planetmaker> uhm... I expect it to break horribly 09:52:10 <Hirundo> What industries got removed? 09:52:18 <andythenorth_> I'd put a trivial amount of money on it crashing the game 09:54:35 <Hirundo> Actually it does not (yet) 09:55:13 <Hirundo> Instead, all industries show <invalid industry> and are composed of tile 0, which happens to be a coal mine part 09:55:24 <andythenorth_> all industry? 09:55:30 <andythenorth_> guess the changed grfid causes that 09:55:33 <Hirundo> ^^ 09:55:45 <Hirundo> All except stuff like iron mine which has original graphics 09:57:10 <andythenorth_> :| 09:57:15 <andythenorth_> expected though :) 09:57:53 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #464 (Rejected): Landfill (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/464#change-4190 09:57:53 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #461 (Closed): Fish Processor (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/461#change-4191 09:57:53 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #466 (Closed): Cotton Plantation (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/466#change-4192 10:00:10 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #763 (Closed): Watch the nightly compile logs (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/763#change-4193 10:00:40 <andythenorth_> that'll do for now 10:00:45 <andythenorth_> time for a break :) 10:03:03 <Alberth> andythenorth_: nforenum r466 reports a fatal error 10:03:12 <andythenorth_> hmm 10:03:24 <andythenorth_> for firs tip? 10:03:30 <planetmaker> Alberth: you might want to use grfcodec 5.x ;-) 10:03:45 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:03:47 <planetmaker> well... which contains nforenum 10:05:10 <planetmaker> hm... you should IMHO have given reasons for closing issues, andythenorth_ 10:05:26 <andythenorth_> :) 10:06:01 <planetmaker> it now can mean anything from 'implemented' over 'not now' to 'rejected' 10:06:42 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #466: Cotton Plantation (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/466#change-4194 10:06:42 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #461: Fish Processor (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/461#change-4195 10:06:49 <Ammler> closing means implemented 10:06:54 <Ammler> else you do reject 10:07:12 <andythenorth_> ^ what Ammler said 10:07:36 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #464: Landfill (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/464#change-4196 10:07:49 <planetmaker> still I like your new comments much better. I explains *why* :-) 10:08:03 <planetmaker> and allows at least some starting point to see how 10:08:05 <planetmaker> and where 10:13:46 <Terkhen> vehicle property "cargo_type" does not appear in the NML documentation 10:14:17 <Terkhen> luckily its name is easy to deduce 10:15:27 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1564: more rigorously placement industries; mind cargo chains (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1564#change-4197 10:16:39 <planetmaker> Terkhen: does not exist (anymore) 10:16:57 * Terkhen updates nml 10:17:18 <Terkhen> at first I was assuming it would use first refittable cargo by default, but it didn't 10:17:26 <planetmaker> it was found to only cause problems and it's automatically set to "first refittable" 10:18:27 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1254 (Rejected): All snowline code should not assume Arc... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1254#change-4198 10:20:02 <planetmaker> it doesn't use the CTT and as such is dependent on the industry set in use 10:20:08 <planetmaker> not a good property :-) 10:20:15 <Terkhen> indeed 10:20:23 <Terkhen> thanks, it's now working correctly 10:20:24 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #912 (Rejected): Production boost at certain industries i... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/912#change-4199 10:20:53 <Terkhen> now I only have to understand sprites to have the first bulk truck working 10:21:24 <Terkhen> I guess those png files in ogfx-trains are sprites from opengfx converted to png 10:22:33 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #819 (Rejected): Stop trying to make Power Plants more th... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/819#change-4200 10:22:33 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #797 (Rejected): Recycling plant production code (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/797#change-4201 10:25:40 <planetmaker> correct 10:26:17 <planetmaker> If you 'just' want refittable, you can work w/o sprites. E.g. for a container-like piecegoods lorry 10:27:32 <planetmaker> The problem with most RV is: they are not in nicely ordered graphics files 10:27:55 <planetmaker> many RV are a simple rip-off from the original egrvts one, at least toyland 10:29:22 <planetmaker> hm... vehiclesroad01.pcx is not as bad as I thought :-) 10:29:25 <andythenorth_> you're just modifying default vehicle action 0 props yes? 10:29:34 <planetmaker> no 10:29:44 <andythenorth_> ah 10:29:58 <planetmaker> proper refit support means a nice varaction2 chain 10:30:07 <planetmaker> which means to copy all sprites 10:30:14 <planetmaker> and make them available for this one vehicle 10:31:00 <Terkhen> right now I only have action 0 properties... but from looking at the wagon code, defining sprites for each cargo class does not seem very complicated 10:31:14 <planetmaker> well, no 10:31:37 <planetmaker> actually I define it there at best on a per-cargo basis 10:31:42 <planetmaker> not quite yet 10:32:00 <planetmaker> hm... I should consider to release OpenGFX+ Trains as 0.1.0 10:32:32 <planetmaker> It *should* provide everything without loosing really much. Only maglev and monorail wagons show the same as rail ones 10:32:41 <planetmaker> which is not nice, but... ok 10:32:51 <planetmaker> hm... And I should re-define the valuable wagons. 10:32:59 <planetmaker> Or with FIRS they'll transport precious milk 10:33:52 <planetmaker> or was it sand? Dunno 10:35:36 <Terkhen> can't you disable that wagon in that case? 10:43:52 *** fanioz has quit IRC 10:45:33 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 10:52:42 <planetmaker> Terkhen: it will disable itself, if the cargo is not available. 10:53:05 <planetmaker> As such it makes sense to re-define it and allow it only for valuables 10:54:03 <planetmaker> that way it's not needed to take care for every (future) industry mod as well 10:57:11 <Terkhen> okay 10:59:07 <planetmaker> for this it needs no new graphics, just new refit properties. So that case would be only action0 needed 11:19:26 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 48:cf1f8671ac20: Change #1528: Redefine armoured wagon, thus disabling... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/revisions/cf1f8671ac20 11:32:29 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 49:ba6af1fb65a2: Fix: Disable the monorail and maglev wagons using the... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/revisions/ba6af1fb65a2 11:37:25 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:45:05 *** Alberth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 11:47:31 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1550 (Reopened): allow setting default value also for boo... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1550#change-4202 11:49:23 *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:51:28 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 827:0db42b7035d6: Fix #1550: def_value didn't work for bool settings (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/0db42b7035d6 11:51:28 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1550 (Closed): allow setting default value also for boole... (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1550#change-4203 11:51:38 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #1624 (New): EF55 (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1624 11:52:04 <planetmaker> that's not the fix :-( 11:52:17 <Yexo> are you sure? it works here 11:52:27 <planetmaker> it didn't here 11:52:33 <planetmaker> that's what I tried before I reported 11:53:16 <planetmaker> hm 11:53:19 <Yexo> can you add: print type(self.def_val) just before that if and copy the result here? 11:53:26 <Yexo> grf.py:134 11:54:59 <planetmaker> [NML] ogfx-trains.grf 11:55:01 <planetmaker> <class 'nml.expression.ConstantNumeric'> 11:56:32 <Hirundo> The fix in r827 should be correct 11:56:35 <Yexo> that is ok 11:56:54 <Yexo> planetmaker: can you pastebin the complete nml code that fails? 11:57:21 <planetmaker> hm, you'll probably need the graphics. Do you have a copy of ogfx-trains? 11:57:28 <Yexo> not yet 11:58:11 <planetmaker> http://pastebin.com/0KZufyhD <-- the diff against r49 of that repo 11:58:30 <planetmaker> hg clone http://hg.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trains ogfx-trains 11:59:43 <planetmaker> and the only modification to my NML is the debug line you just asked for 11:59:55 <Yexo> it builds fine here 12:00:03 <planetmaker> hm 12:00:14 <Yexo> did you pull the last nml revision? 12:00:48 <planetmaker> :-D No 12:01:05 <planetmaker> sorry :-( 12:02:18 <planetmaker> yes works. 12:05:38 <Terkhen> nmlc: Image file "src/gfx/bulk_truck_1_iron_ore.png": image does not have a palette <--- what should I do to fix this? 12:06:04 <Alberth> fix the image? 12:06:07 <Terkhen> :D 12:06:39 <planetmaker> indeed. Open gimp. convert to proper palette. and save. 12:06:47 <Alberth> actually, why all this palette stuff in the first place? 12:07:00 <Alberth> can NML not fix that instead? 12:07:09 <planetmaker> no 12:07:19 <Alberth> .. 12:07:36 <planetmaker> well. Difficult :-) 12:07:46 <planetmaker> it's not necessarily un-ambigeous :-) 12:07:58 <planetmaker> How do you properly convert an image which has colours not in the palette? 12:08:06 <Alberth> not 12:08:13 <planetmaker> How do you know whether an action or CC was meant or a 'normal' colour? 12:08:34 <planetmaker> Hm... you mean, just complain when there are non-supported colours? 12:08:34 <Alberth> 'action' ? 12:08:45 <planetmaker> fire. water. lights 12:08:51 <planetmaker> animated palette colours 12:09:03 <planetmaker> action colours 12:09:07 <Alberth> we make a mapping (or ask for one) 12:09:13 <Terkhen> hmmm... which one is the proper palette? 12:09:23 <planetmaker> Terkhen: TTD windows 12:10:22 <Alberth> we could simply use the colours that are in the palette today 12:10:25 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/documents/2 12:10:30 <planetmaker> ^ the first one 12:10:35 <Terkhen> thanks :) 12:10:45 <frosch123> Alberth: the water and fire colours also appear as 'normal' colours 12:11:21 <frosch123> but you can likely do something like: if the image does not have a proper palette, use only normal colours 12:11:28 <Alberth> so an artist cannot see whether his pixel is animated or not? 12:11:37 <planetmaker> yeah. That would probably be a good solution, frosch123 :-) 12:11:40 <frosch123> no, unless with ttdviewer :p 12:11:45 <planetmaker> Alberth: indeed, unlesss ^ 12:12:02 <planetmaker> actually, one can. 12:12:24 <planetmaker> Using a palette supporting drawing programme you can colour-select all pixels of a single palette entry 12:12:33 <Alberth> so why does he not use a different colour instead? 12:12:52 <planetmaker> I guess: ask Chris sawer :-) 12:13:04 <frosch123> what has cs to do with that? 12:13:15 <planetmaker> with the palettes in use? 12:13:19 <frosch123> the colours of the animated colours are completely made up by grfcodec 12:13:29 <Alberth> I mean, index X is for a cycled colour, so pick hell-green or so 12:13:50 <frosch123> e.g. the watercircle has 15 colours, but only 5 entries in the palette or so 12:14:08 <planetmaker> hm interesting 12:14:12 <planetmaker> I didn't know *that* 12:14:34 <frosch123> furthermore, dos has only 6 bit per color component, while windows has 8 bit 12:14:38 <Alberth> the only requirement is that you can distinguish 256 colours at most, which is a requirement that exists today as well 12:14:49 <frosch123> as such the dos and win palette are also different in normal colours 12:15:15 <Alberth> I cannot imagine that an artist would use the same colour for different index values 12:15:21 <frosch123> oh, we missed the most fundamental colour: transparent blue 12:15:27 <planetmaker> :-) 12:15:32 <planetmaker> that IS important 12:15:46 <Alberth> ok, 257 colours 12:16:15 <planetmaker> Alberth: well... But the same colours are used ingame for different index values 12:16:33 <planetmaker> So an artist does not necessarily have a choice, if he wants to see how it looks while drawing 12:16:41 <Alberth> I care only a small bit about ingame 12:17:06 <planetmaker> :D 12:17:11 <planetmaker> But the artists usually don't 12:17:16 <planetmaker> That's what the graphics are drawn for 12:18:10 <planetmaker> But how would you address this issue? 12:18:37 <Alberth> use a converter program obviously 12:19:41 <Alberth> you cannot see cycled colours in gimp either, so you need to convert it to a grf anyway to see the graphics 12:20:59 <Yexo> is there a list of indexed in both the dos and windows palette that are special (=action colors / company colors)? 12:21:54 <frosch123> how does nml detect the palette today? 12:23:00 <Alberth> check against a table 12:23:23 <planetmaker> Yexo: that list is in the OpenTTD source ;-) 12:23:26 <frosch123> well, but does it check the colours to match exaclty? or does it allow some threshold of differences? 12:23:38 <planetmaker> frosch123: it need to be exactly 12:23:52 <frosch123> i mean: screenshots of ttd, ottd, and grfcodec output use slightly different colours for some weird reason 12:23:55 <Alberth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/entry/nml/palette.py 12:24:15 <planetmaker> actually the indices can be inferred from the 'usual' images 12:24:29 <planetmaker> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=PalettesAndCoordinates 12:24:43 <planetmaker> that gives the indices from left to right and top to bottom 12:25:33 <planetmaker> hm, do they really, frosch123 ? Then it's strange... 12:25:39 <planetmaker> and... maybe should be adjusted 12:25:46 <planetmaker> at least grfcodec and ottd 12:25:50 <frosch123> e.g.: M(131, 133, 131) <- colour 8 of ottd dos, while ttd uses 132, 132, 132 12:28:08 <planetmaker> he 12:28:16 <planetmaker> wrong once, wrong ever? 12:28:58 <frosch123> grfcodec also seems to use 132, 132, 132 in this special case 12:29:39 <Yexo> nml uses the exact same palettes as grfcodec IIRC 12:29:45 <frosch123> so likely some ottd guy insisted on greyscale colours not having same rgb values, but that you can see the difference if you use some colour temperature stuff 12:35:47 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 50:02b28b928a9b: Change: Disable the default wagons by default and onl... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/revisions/02b28b928a9b 12:36:17 <planetmaker> Alberth: in any case, it probably *would* be a good idea to assume a palette, either DOS or windows (or use those which was already used by one previous graphics file) and convert an image file assuming no company colour or action colours are used 12:36:50 <planetmaker> Or... maybe not assume anything, but at least try to convert 1:1 and only complain if not matching colours are found 12:37:05 <planetmaker> Problems like Terkhen just reported are very common and only a hassle ;-) 12:37:42 <frosch123> planetmaker: is it a good idea to not allow "company colour"? 12:37:54 <planetmaker> hm... probably not 12:37:57 <planetmaker> are they distinct? 12:37:58 <frosch123> i.e. there are also various sprites which are drawn without company colours 12:38:04 <frosch123> while there is also 2cc and other stuff 12:38:22 <frosch123> i don't know whether there are duplicates wrt cc 12:39:06 <planetmaker> if there are it's a problem to consider them. If not... it will be quite fine to allow CC or even 2CC 12:40:47 <frosch123> A1 and D3 are duplicates 12:41:54 <frosch123> hmm, both are normal colours... 12:42:04 <planetmaker> hu? 12:42:26 <frosch123> looks like there are duplicate normal colours :p 12:43:34 <Yexo> which indixes are they duplicates of? 12:43:35 <planetmaker> could be not more silly 12:43:47 <frosch123> A1 and D3 in dos palette 12:43:48 <frosch123> some light blue 12:44:11 <frosch123> 204, 240, 252 resp. 0xCCF0FC 12:44:20 <Yexo> indeed silly 12:45:11 <Alberth> one of them part of a cycle ? 12:45:16 <frosch123> well, not as silly as the greyscale of the win palette :p 12:45:28 <frosch123> no cycle 12:45:47 <planetmaker> hm? 12:45:59 <planetmaker> what's wrong about the windoze gray colours? 12:46:46 <frosch123> they are scattered all across the palette, trashing 4 dos colours, while there are plenty of consecutive unused slots? 12:47:14 <frosch123> i have no idea why the windows porters of ttd messed so hard with the palette... 12:47:38 <Yexo> frosch123: where in the openttd code is the palette? 12:47:50 <frosch123> table/palettes.h 12:48:29 <frosch123> the animation cycles are in gfx.cpp or so, but there are more colours than slots for them 12:48:43 <frosch123> no, they are in palettes.h as well 12:48:55 <planetmaker> hm, can I determine somehow the default order of vehicles how they appear in the purchase list? 12:49:14 <frosch123> there is some order proterty 12:49:20 <planetmaker> lifestock, pax, mail, bulk, flatbed, valuables is not sensible 12:49:53 <frosch123> hmm, do you mean order of vehicles, or order of refittable cargos? 12:50:24 <frosch123> anyway, property 1A for trains 12:50:36 <planetmaker> order of vehicles. I don't mind cargos 12:50:41 <planetmaker> (in this case) 12:52:27 <planetmaker> thanks 12:52:35 <frosch123> "It is possible to reset the list to its original order with a special action 0 that has num-info set to 0, and only sets property 1A for trains:" <-- haha, i bet that is not implemented in ottd 12:54:21 <frosch123> nforenum knows it though 12:54:47 <planetmaker> hm, where does that question come from? 12:55:04 <planetmaker> was it me? ;-) 12:55:35 <planetmaker> property 1A mentions OpenTTD r13k something 12:55:57 <planetmaker> but NML explicitly mentions it not at all 12:56:25 <frosch123> planetmaker: r13k refers to B*, i.e. enginepool with more vehicles 12:56:38 <planetmaker> was there a (hackish) way to write an unsupported property in NML? Just for testing purposes? 12:57:09 <planetmaker> frosch123: yes. But in that section it means that 1A is supported by OpenTTD. Or...? 12:57:26 <frosch123> 1a is supported for long, just not that "reset"-thingie 12:57:42 <planetmaker> ah 12:58:48 <frosch123> btw. planetmaker, to answer the question which most ask somehwn when dealing with property 1a: you do not specify a order, but you sort them manually 12:59:03 <planetmaker> within my newgrf 12:59:24 <planetmaker> though I don't quite get the difference between those two things you just mention 13:00:11 <planetmaker> setting it to 1,2,3,4,5,... should have them appear top ... down in order 1,2,3,4,5... or is my understanding wrong? 13:00:24 <frosch123> very much 13:00:33 <planetmaker> very much wrong? :D 13:01:07 <frosch123> when setting prop 1a you issue the vehicle to be inserted before a certain other vehicle NOW (in the moment you assign the property) 13:02:03 <frosch123> i.e. if you set "1 before 2" and "3 before 2", you will get "1, 3, 2". if you say "3 before 2" and "1 before 2" you will get "3, 1, 2" 13:02:53 <frosch123> so, you do not define an order which ottd then sorts according to, but you specify the single movements, which are excuted in that exact order 13:03:48 <planetmaker> ho, let me digest that... movement wrt which frame of reference? 13:04:18 <frosch123> move vehicle a in front of b 13:05:04 <planetmaker> but when I set 1A in the firs vehicle I define... what does it do? And then in the 2nd a value higher? 13:05:38 <frosch123> no, you do not set any order/rank in 1a, you specify "vehicle ids" in 1a 13:06:05 <planetmaker> and I specify in front of which it goes? 13:06:18 <frosch123> setting property 1A to 12 means, insert this vehicle before vehicle with id 12. it does not mean insert at position 12 of the list 13:06:27 <planetmaker> ah, ok 13:06:39 <Yexo> <planetmaker> was there a (hackish) way to write an unsupported property in NML? Just for testing purposes? <- no, there is a way for varaction2 variables, but for properties the size is needed 13:07:14 <planetmaker> hm. Maybe we want to support property 1A then ;-) 13:07:52 <planetmaker> It seems that re-defining default vehicles kinda adds them arbitrarily to the purchase list. Which looks a bit unfortunate 13:07:56 <Yexo> say we want the order D, B, A, C. The easiest way to do that is to do: put A in front of C, B in front of A, D in front of B 13:08:08 <Yexo> it may not be the most efficient way, but it's certainly the easiest way to program it 13:08:29 <planetmaker> yes. 13:08:34 <Yexo> that way we can support property 1A by letting the nml writer do: sort_vehicles(trainD, trainB, trainA, trainC); 13:08:39 <frosch123> yeah, but order matters :) 13:13:19 <Hirundo> It's a nice thought exercise 13:15:10 <planetmaker> indeed :-) 13:17:32 <frosch123> hmm, 32 and 43 are also duplicates (both normal colours) 13:18:06 <frosch123> except 32 is part of 2cc 13:18:21 <frosch123> there your trouble starts :) 13:21:01 <frosch123> hmm, no 2cc starts 5x 13:21:18 <frosch123> so, both normal colours, same for 34 and 44 :o 13:21:24 *** thgergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:23:15 <planetmaker> tsk 13:23:33 <planetmaker> we should re-define those colours ;-) 13:23:40 <planetmaker> to something usable 13:23:59 <planetmaker> let's say... another thing for grf version8 13:24:40 * planetmaker hopes that frosch123 adds it to his probably meanwhile long lists of things going there ;-) 13:24:41 <frosch123> let's see whether newspaper and shadow recolouring also treats them the same :p 13:25:04 <planetmaker> oh right ;-) 13:25:42 <frosch123> AF and B0, too :p 13:27:23 <planetmaker> you're still talking about the DOS palette? 13:27:35 <frosch123> i only ever talk about dos 13:27:53 <frosch123> there is no point talking about win, is there? 13:29:28 <frosch123> so, there are 4 pairs of duplicate colours. and yet the win palette thrashes 4 different colours :p 13:30:18 <frosch123> oh, it even trashes 6 13:32:24 <planetmaker> jo 13:34:17 <Alberth> any chance of getting the NML code documented? 13:36:18 <planetmaker> :-D 13:37:43 <Alberth> it's not funny at all 13:39:47 <Hirundo> "The NML code" is kinda big, where should I start? 13:39:56 <Hirundo> --> What info do you need? 13:42:17 <planetmaker> [15:37] <Alberth> it's not funny at all <-- I guess I use that 'smily' slightly differently than you understood ;-) 13:42:44 <frosch123> A1 and D3 are recoloured differently for crashed vehciles, transparency and newspaper :p 13:43:06 <planetmaker> does it matter, frosch123 ? 13:43:20 * Yexo wonders how many graphic artists actually know that 13:43:55 <frosch123> hmm, but ttdviewer uses the wrong indices for 2cc :( 13:46:05 <Alberth> Hirundo: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/epydoc_checks.txt says there are about 1000 undocumented functions. Even if 2/3 is a false positive, there are still 300 undocumented functions 13:47:37 <Alberth> I wanted to do the skipping due to version constraints, but I am getting quite fed up with it all 13:50:26 <Hirundo> I can understand that a lack of comments, weak typing and style-mixups make for some unpleasant experiences... 13:51:19 <Hirundo> Refactoring/documenting at least action2/7/9/D is certainly on my (long) todo list 13:52:22 <Yexo> that is one of the worst parts of the code 13:52:41 <Hirundo> too much stuff has been bolted onto parse_varaction2() for too long 13:54:43 <Alberth> I just cannot make head or tails of the code. parameters from nowhere without a clue of their meaning and/or their range of values 13:55:02 <Alberth> it will take me months to understand how to even call a function 13:55:51 <Hirundo> Then, ask questions here 13:56:26 <Brot6> TTDViewer - Revision 26:e8c40dddd7e3: -Fix: 2CC recolouring used wrong indices (hex/dec mixup) (frosch) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ttdviewer/repository/revisions/e8c40dddd7e3 13:56:41 <Yexo> considering I wrote most of the varaction2 code I'll start with documenting it 13:57:12 *** Levi has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:57:16 <planetmaker> hey 13:57:19 <Levi> hey 13:57:35 <planetmaker> any name? 13:57:36 <Hirundo> I think it's best to refactor it into a class (Varaction2Parser), so it can be split into sane <1 page methods 13:58:21 <Levi> planetmaker: username's same as here, project name, anything you see fit :) 13:58:40 <planetmaker> I was asking you about the latter, yes ;-) 13:58:51 <Levi> just to be sure 13:59:15 <Levi> openttd server configuration utility or something like that, I guess 13:59:49 <planetmaker> you use hg? 14:00:11 <Levi> I mainly use git, if that's supported 14:00:23 <Levi> if not, hg will do 14:00:39 <Alberth> Hirundo: you'd get questions like "hey, tell me how what python code to write to make the minimal version check work". Not the type of questions you'd want to answer imho, as effectively, you'd do all the work, and I learn nothing since I still don't get cluefull about the meaning of functions 14:00:41 <planetmaker> I'd need to check that, I never use it 14:03:32 <planetmaker> Levi: hg would have the adv. that it works somewhat reasonably also on windows :-) 14:03:42 <planetmaker> reasonably as in speed terms 14:03:45 <Levi> planetmaker: git works on windows just fine 14:04:13 <Levi> but if you insist, I can switch the project to hg, no big deal 14:05:32 <planetmaker> it would mean I have to do no work :-P 14:06:14 <Levi> ok then, hg it is :) 14:06:22 <planetmaker> and it means, if you ever want to bundle things as a release the CF can handle it somewhat out-of-box 14:06:31 <planetmaker> it's currently only tailored for hg 14:07:04 <Brot6> repository /home/ottdc/hg-repos/ottd-webconfig registered in Redmine with url /home/ottdc/hg-repos/ottd-webconfig 14:07:04 <Brot6> repository /home/ottdc/hg-repos/ottd-webconfig created 14:07:47 <planetmaker> ^ there you got your project 14:07:52 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ottd-webconfig 14:08:22 <planetmaker> you can clone the (empty) one from http://hg.openttdcoop.org/ottd-webconfig 14:08:30 <Levi> ok, thx 14:10:05 <planetmaker> you can push using your redmine credentials using https://user:password@push.openttdcoop.org/repository 14:11:08 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ottd-webconfig is your project's main page 14:11:37 <Levi> ok, i see. thanks, I'll get on setting it up in a moment 14:13:34 <planetmaker> http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/GitConcepts <-- might be interesting for you ;-) 14:13:37 <Webster> Title: GitConcepts - Mercurial (at mercurial.selenic.com) 14:34:24 *** avdg has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:36:01 <Levi> ok, it's all up 14:36:29 <Levi> tortoisehg seems a little bit more complicated than it needs to be, but it works 14:45:06 <planetmaker> nice 14:45:11 <Yexo> Hirundo: r727 supports the syntax for "calling" another switch block, but you never implemented the varaction2 part of that, right? 14:45:50 <Yexo> in any case: http://pastebin.com/wQ6qHsFF gives an internal error 14:47:38 <planetmaker> Yexo: it's correct that scope like BACKWARD_SELF(x) only work for random, right? 14:47:59 <planetmaker> and only SELF and PARENT work with switch 14:48:47 <Yexo> yes 14:49:00 <Ammler> actually all main devs of redmine use git, so it would quite easy to support it, our issue is that we have no clue about it :-) 14:49:22 <Ammler> so if you don't need support, you could use git :-) 14:49:25 <Levi> Ammler: you should work it out, git is really quite nice 14:50:09 <Levi> but I've set the project up with hg already, no reason to change 14:50:32 <Hirundo> Yexo: That syntax was already supported previously (sortof), don't know whether it ever worked though 14:50:37 <planetmaker> Levi: it's installed just fine. On the server, here and probably on Ammler's machine, too 14:50:39 <planetmaker> but... 14:50:50 <planetmaker> ... never touch a running system 14:50:55 <Yexo> it doesn't work now, so I'll just assume it never did 14:51:30 <planetmaker> and personally for me there's no reason to switch 14:55:50 <Ammler> as said, we would like to support git, we just don't like to do it self :-P 14:56:10 <planetmaker> :-P 14:58:01 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 51:ec57445fc264: Change: Update readme and credits a bit (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/revisions/ec57445fc264 14:59:08 *** fanioz has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:59:47 <fanioz> have a nice sunday 15:22:36 <fanioz> okay, quick question. Is it possible to make a quite push, so Brot6 didn't echo every push, but just a few of them instead? 15:22:48 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:25:36 <Levi> Brot6 didn't echo my push into my project... 15:27:25 <planetmaker> it doesn't echo every project 15:27:43 <planetmaker> Though I agree yours should be part of it :-) 15:27:53 <planetmaker> fanioz: that's not possible 15:28:24 <planetmaker> but it has a limit of only broadcasting the 5 last ones 15:28:29 <planetmaker> or 10? 15:30:41 <fanioz> hmmm okay 15:30:56 <Levi> planetmaker: if you're going to use the script, I'd much appreciate feedback. it's been ages since I've done anything with php :) 15:31:10 <planetmaker> sure :-) 15:31:54 <planetmaker> Levi: probably you'll get more feature requests than you like :-P 15:33:24 <Levi> well, I'm not necessarily alone on this project (a few friends playing on my server are also CS students, shouldn't be too hard to motivate them:) ), so maybe it could grow into something bigger over time 15:33:36 <Ammler> it does echo max of 10 15:34:04 <Ammler> don't care about "spam" :-) 15:34:32 <planetmaker> Levi, if my fellow coopers like it, I'd hand over the maintenance on the server to you ;-) 15:36:04 <Ammler> you could place the webconfig beside of autopilot in openttd scripts 15:36:46 <Ammler> we can hide your project from announcement, if you need 15:37:22 <planetmaker> good idea. Done ;-) 15:38:50 <Brot6> OpenTTD WebConfig - Revision 0:4c1ce9ac2741: Initial commit. (Levi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ottd-webconfig/repository/revisions/4c1ce9ac2741 15:40:48 <fanioz> Levi, ^ isn't that your project ? :D 15:40:58 <Levi> it is, that's the old push 15:42:12 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 15:49:00 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 828:eef9f5f342fe: Cleanup: remove Action2Operator as it's been su... (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/eef9f5f342fe 15:49:00 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 829:cd8e9c784430: Change: remove varsize from actions/action2var.... (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/cd8e9c784430 15:50:38 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 830:907d645acc82: Change: move remove_tmp_location from Action2Va... (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/907d645acc82 15:50:38 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1625 (New): Implement "calling" another varaction2 (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1625 15:52:47 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1626 (New): Fill Action2.references in random action2 (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1626 15:55:01 <Rubidium> frosch123: the DOS palette stuff comes, IIRC, from grfcodec (at least the conversion tables come from grfcodec, again IIRC) 15:58:34 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 831:a3a8d4fc7914: Doc: the Action2Var class an it's members (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/a3a8d4fc7914 16:10:14 <Brot6> nml: update from r826 to r831 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/r831 16:11:18 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 52:e370096929f2: Add: German translation (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/revisions/e370096929f2 16:11:35 * planetmaker ponders the banana approach with OpenGFX+Trains: pick early and let it ripe at the customer ;-) 16:17:36 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 53:9200ac198b6e: Fix: Remove introduction date from a few wagons (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/revisions/9200ac198b6e 16:19:50 <Brot6> firs: update from r1460 to r1473 done (1 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r1473 16:20:22 *** Levi has quit IRC 16:20:51 <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from r40 to r53 done (1 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trains/nightlies/r53 16:21:23 <Brot6> ogfx-trees: update from r38 to r41 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trees/nightlies/r41 16:22:24 <Brot6> ttdviewer: update from r25 to r26 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ttdviewer/nightlies/r26 16:22:27 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r615), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r68), airportsplus (r63), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r7), comic-houses (r71), fish (r394), frenchtowns (r4), grfcodec (r772), heqs (r380), indonesiantowns (r33), metrotrackset (r56), newgrf_makefile (r219), nforenum (r506), nml (r831), nutracks (r117), opengfx (r550), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45), 16:22:27 <Brot6> swedishrails (r182), swisstowns (r20), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttrs (r23), worldairlinersset (r664) 16:26:26 <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: airportsplus (Diffsize: 6), belarusiantowns (3 errors) (Diffsize: 21), frenchtowns (4 errors) (Diffsize: 9), indonesiantowns (4 errors) (Diffsize: 12), swedishrails (Diffsize: 6), swisstowns (Diffsize: 4649) 16:48:37 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:52:05 *** avdg has quit IRC 16:53:28 *** avdg has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:04:31 *** avdg has quit IRC 17:05:34 *** avdg has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:13:36 *** avdg has quit IRC 17:14:40 *** avdg has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:24:59 *** avdg1 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:25:20 *** avdg has quit IRC 17:25:56 *** fanioz has quit IRC 17:26:32 *** Ammler has quit IRC 17:27:21 *** Ammler has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:28:24 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1627 (New): improvements to Store placement (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1627 17:29:45 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 17:34:34 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 54:8372cd125e5d: Fix (r52): Use the correct languageID (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/revisions/8372cd125e5d 17:45:36 *** fanioz has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:12:05 <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r20911 to r20914 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-ez-patches/testing/r20914 18:22:58 <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r20911 to r20914 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/clientpatches/testing/r20914 18:33:50 <Brot6> serverpatches: update from hfa4136ed to h962cc856 done (2 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/serverpatches/testing/h962cc856 18:59:44 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 55:ecd05cb460e1: Added tag 0.1.0 for changeset 8372cd125e5d (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/revisions/ecd05cb460e1 19:00:43 <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from to 0.1.0 done (1 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trains/releases/0.1.0 19:03:35 *** Levi has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:04:27 <planetmaker> ^ there Ammler 19:04:31 <planetmaker> :-) 19:14:10 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 832:1406adc47be0: Codechange: Split parse_actionD into different ... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/1406adc47be0 19:36:14 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 833:25bf21a77777: Doc: Document the classes ParameterAssignment a... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/25bf21a77777 19:44:05 <Brot6> OpenTTD WebConfig - Revision 1:3ac8dca75291: Display [newgrf] header even if no NewGRFs are active (Levi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ottd-webconfig/repository/revisions/3ac8dca75291 19:55:45 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 834:7da7920a2a7a: Feature: Output the expression corresponding to... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/7da7920a2a7a 20:15:30 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 835:4d92f612a47e: Codechange: s/feature/action_type in the action... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/4d92f612a47e 20:19:35 <Brot6> OpenTTD WebConfig - Revision 2:2eb031297d47: Moved all HTML to templates. (Levi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ottd-webconfig/repository/revisions/2eb031297d47 20:49:18 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:55:58 <Brot6> OpenTTD WebConfig - Revision 3:3bf740ee4f85: Added error messages in case of missing rights or ot... (Levi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ottd-webconfig/repository/revisions/3bf740ee4f85 21:01:24 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 21:03:02 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:13:01 <Alberth> Hirundo: you know you can also add comment with the newline() method? 21:13:48 <Alberth> oh, this is about the whole sprite, perhaps above it is better 21:15:26 <Hirundo> Yes, and yes :) 21:17:54 <Yexo> this way we can change "comment" in a function that writes an actionC, perhaps only when the user uses a certain commandline option 21:20:25 <Alberth> no idea what the use of that is, as you'd want to read the NML source anyway :) 21:23:25 <Yexo> that way you can question the existance of actionC 21:29:03 * Alberth nods 21:29:32 <planetmaker> :-) 21:30:03 <Alberth> although in the context of a graphics artist, where the final product is also the only artefact, it makes some sense 21:37:56 <Alberth> good night 21:39:28 *** Alberth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 21:41:38 *** ODM has quit IRC 22:29:03 *** Levi1 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:34:36 *** Levi has quit IRC 23:01:40 *** fanioz has quit IRC 23:25:21 *** Levi1 has quit IRC 23:25:29 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC