Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 10th October 2010:
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04:48:51  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trees - Revision 39:ed0e1243500f: Add: 1 tropical tree (Froix) @
04:48:51  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trees - Revision 40:756e3b149dc1: Fix #1608: swapped tree activation values back to orig... (Froix) @
04:48:51  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trees - Bug #1608 (Closed): Trees are not enabled by default (Froix) @
04:51:07  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trees - Bug #1608 (Closed): Trees are not enabled by default (Froix) @
05:03:34  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trees - Revision 41:0bacacb35f0d: Added tag 0.2.2 for changeset 756e3b149dc1 (Froix) @
05:03:42  <Brot6> ogfx-trees: update from 0.2.1 to 0.2.2 done -
06:31:35  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1465:895d62616bab: Change: minor tweak to changelog (andythenorth) @
06:31:35  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1466:9d8f1da294f1: Change: update readme (andythenorth) @
06:31:35  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1467:9660596cff58: Change: update credits :) (andythenorth) @
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07:05:52  <andythenorth_> morning
07:15:49  <Brot6> firs: update from 0.4.0 to 0.5 done (1 errors) -
07:15:56  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1468:7e93b5ba26f6: Added tag .05 for changeset 9660596cff58 (andythenorth) @
07:15:56  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1469:6e4b2c0de843: Removed tag .05 (andythenorth) @
07:15:56  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1470:ca2d989c9327: Added tag 0.5 for changeset 6e4b2c0de843 (andythenorth) @
07:26:13  <andythenorth_> Ammler: planetmaker hmmm
07:26:26  <andythenorth_> you wanted me to use 0.x.0 as tag name?
07:33:10  <Ammler> up to you :-)
07:33:30  <Ammler> you shouldn't change it too often...
07:33:55  <andythenorth_> I'll amend it
07:34:07  <andythenorth_> someone was quite keen that I use 0.x.0
07:36:31  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1471:400600b7110e: Added tag 0.5.0 for changeset ca2d989... (andythenorth) @
07:36:33  <Brot6> firs: update from 0.5 to 0.5.0 done (1 errors) -
07:37:30  <andythenorth_> hmm
07:37:33  <andythenorth_> I broken my repo
07:37:38  <andythenorth_> :P
07:37:45  <planetmaker> clone new
07:38:08  <andythenorth_> I fixed it again :)
07:38:13  <andythenorth_> rollback is my friend
07:38:14  <planetmaker> and good morning :-)
07:38:26  <planetmaker> aye. If rollback is your fix, broken is the wrong word :-P
07:38:57  <andythenorth_> I wanted to remove the 0.5 tag, but that seems to create a new head
07:39:06  <planetmaker> yes
07:39:31  <andythenorth_> hmm
07:39:34  <andythenorth_> maybe I just did it wrong
07:39:36  <andythenorth_> now fixed
07:39:36  <Ammler> well, you used 0.x for branches, so it was a good idea to use 0.x.x for tags
07:39:38  <planetmaker> once you pushed something you cannot rollback
07:39:52  <andythenorth_> we should now have FIRS 0.5.0
07:39:56  <andythenorth_> and 0.5 tag should be removed
07:39:57  <planetmaker> Nice :-)
07:40:00  <planetmaker> congrats
07:40:10  <planetmaker> andythenorth_: that'd be a separate commit, if you like it.
07:40:19  <planetmaker> But then 0.5 != 0.5.0 and it doesn't really hurt
07:40:22  <andythenorth_> it's done :)
07:40:25  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1472:47f29e5cb435: Removed tag 0.5 (andythenorth) @
07:40:39  <planetmaker> andythenorth_: if you like it removed you "just" edit .hgtags
07:40:45  <planetmaker> and commit that as usual
07:40:53  <andythenorth_> hg tag --remove seemed to work
07:41:00  <andythenorth_> I don't know why I got a merge conflict
07:41:04  <andythenorth_> the first time I tried
07:41:18  <andythenorth_> anyway
07:41:19  <planetmaker> rollback and such does not work well with .hgtags
07:41:22  <andythenorth_> md5 sum checking time
07:41:25  <planetmaker> look at .hgtags now
07:41:31  <planetmaker> it's a bit ugly ;-)
07:41:41  <andythenorth_> he
07:41:52  <planetmaker> three lines which reference 0.5 now
07:41:58  <andythenorth_> manually remove?
07:42:01  <andythenorth_> or ignore?
07:42:08  <planetmaker> both is an option :-)
07:42:10  <Ammler> use strip
07:42:15  <andythenorth_> I don't really care either way
07:42:21  <andythenorth_> I don't have strip enabled
07:42:24  <andythenorth_> I did enable it
07:42:28  <planetmaker> :-D
07:42:31  <andythenorth_> then I screwed my repo using it
07:42:38  <andythenorth_> so I disabled it again
07:42:58  <planetmaker> the easiest way IMHO would be to manually edit .hgtags
07:43:04  <Ammler> yes, morning btw. :-)
07:43:24  <planetmaker> but... it could as well be done later when .hgtags needs tinkering again anyway ;-)
07:43:33  <andythenorth_> md5 sums check outy
07:43:41  <andythenorth_> who wants to do the bananas upload?
07:43:44  <Ammler> I assume, you simply forgot to update to tip
07:43:49  <andythenorth_> probably
07:44:26  <planetmaker> Ammler: not sure. .hgtags behaves odd
07:44:30  <andythenorth_> Ammler: yes that was the problem, reading my terminal
07:44:35  <planetmaker> might even be considered a hg bug
07:44:54  <Ammler> 0.5 < 0.5.0 so all fine
07:44:57  <planetmaker> a hg rollback does NOT change .hgtags
07:45:04  <andythenorth_> I removed 0.5 while on the 0.5.0 tag
07:45:07  <planetmaker> so andythenorth_ IMHO fell for the same bug I did already, too
07:45:16  <andythenorth_> that's going to create a new head - it's not in tip?
07:45:24  <planetmaker> Maybe I should report that to hg :-)
07:45:46  <andythenorth_> Ammler: want to banana-rise FIRS?
07:46:46  <Ammler> just don't look in that file and sue hg tags ;-)
07:47:00  <Ammler> use*
07:49:24  <andythenorth_> FIRS 0.5.0 released 10/10/10
07:49:26  <planetmaker> Ammler: still it's not right
07:49:30  <andythenorth_> should have released it at 10:10
07:49:35  <planetmaker> a hg rollback should not leave anything to commit
07:49:38  <Ammler> hg rollback does revert the commit
07:49:38  <planetmaker> which it does
07:49:40  <planetmaker> and that's bad
07:49:45  <planetmaker> and a tag is a commit
07:49:48  <Ammler> but not revert the file
07:49:54  <Ammler> which is fine
07:50:05  <planetmaker> Not quite with .hgtags
07:50:12  <planetmaker> as I don't edit it.
07:50:14  <Ammler> I can do that, yes :-)
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07:50:25  <planetmaker> It's more of an automatically created one
07:50:35  <Alberth> moin
07:50:41  <planetmaker> moin :-)
07:53:02  <Ammler> (done)
07:53:17  <Rubidium> moi y'all
07:53:30  <Ammler> firs has nightly restriction?
07:53:39  <andythenorth_> Ammler: can't remember
07:53:49  <andythenorth_> it should degrade gracefully far as I know
07:53:53  <Rubidium> speaking of nightly restrictions, nforenum could be ditched from the nightly compiles
07:54:12  <Ammler> planetmaker: of course
07:54:18  <Ammler> rollback is not revert
07:54:36  <Ammler> that would be very bad
07:54:58  <Ammler> if you push, you get warning about 2 heads, then you rollback pull and push again
07:55:08  <Ammler> that wouldn't be possible
07:55:28  <Ammler> mörgerli Alberth
07:57:08  <Alberth> Ammler: the townname grfs seem stable now
07:58:26  <Alberth> do you know whether the probabilities seem right as well?
07:58:58  <planetmaker> Ammler: nevertheless. I think it is with .hgtags a bug
07:59:04  <planetmaker> or at least unwanted behaviour
07:59:10  <planetmaker> I'll report it
07:59:32  <andythenorth_> yay 0.5.0 on bananas
07:59:33  <andythenorth_> thanks Ammler
08:03:00  <Ammler> Alberth: you missed my answer on your question at Friday :-)
08:03:25  <Alberth> obviously
08:03:26  <Ammler> :-)
08:03:40  <Ammler> as said, rollback must not revert
08:04:16  <Ammler> Alberth: you should ask me next month again :-)
08:05:00  <Ammler> my Internet connection is quite limited the next 3 weeks
08:06:50  <Alberth> yeah, you don't seem to be much around these days
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08:23:36  <andythenorth__> coop game with FIRS 0.5.0?
08:23:41  <andythenorth__> I could use some feedback :)
08:23:49  <planetmaker> :-)
08:24:09  <andythenorth__> maybe I should play a coop game :o
08:24:18  <andythenorth__> I never seem to be able to join MP servers though
08:24:46  <planetmaker> how so?
08:25:40  <andythenorth__> wrong game version, wrong grfs,
08:26:14  <andythenorth__> there's always something :)
08:26:46  <Alberth> yeah, nobody seems to play with current trunk :p
08:29:24  <Alberth> andythenorth__: rounding the deliveries up to a multiple of 8t is complicated?
08:29:47  <andythenorth__> to code?
08:30:05  <andythenorth__> just take max(delivery, 8t)
08:30:08  <andythenorth__> it's one line of code
08:30:15  <andythenorth__> (needs adding in several places though)
08:30:30  <andythenorth__> Alberth: feel free to patch :)
08:31:40  <Alberth> I was considering that, but it implies I have to read and understand NFO :(
08:32:04  <Alberth> s/was/am/
08:33:02  <andythenorth__> the only problem is that you don't understand nfo *yet*
08:33:04  <andythenorth__> :D
08:33:08  <andythenorth__> nfo is trivial
08:33:19  <andythenorth__> way easier than proper programming languages
08:33:33  <andythenorth__> there's no question of style or optimisation, it either works or doesn't
08:38:21  <Alberth> even assembly languages uses words to define the instruction code
08:39:03  <Alberth> I always get lost in what number means what
08:39:47  <planetmaker> calling nfo trivial is one of the understatements of the month at least
08:40:16  <planetmaker> it's like calling cpu design trivial
08:41:44  <planetmaker> "In mathematics, the adjective trivial is frequently used for objects (for examples, groups or topological spaces) that have a very simple structure. The noun triviality usually refers to a simple technical aspect of some proof or definition."
08:42:33  <andythenorth__> ach
08:42:48  <andythenorth__> it's probably a semantic argument about structure then
08:43:06  <Alberth> or rather, lack of it :)
08:43:20  <andythenorth__> FWIW I think the definition of entropy is wrong, so I'll probably be out on a limb in any argument here
08:43:50  <planetmaker> entropy is the only way we can define whether time progresses or recesses
08:44:31  <planetmaker> it's a measure for information content
08:44:34  <andythenorth__> I don't understand why entropy is taught in school / university as the 'tendency towards ultimate chaos'
08:45:08  <planetmaker> it's true
08:45:12  <andythenorth__> tendency is towards no differentials in the system, which means ultimate order
08:45:16  <andythenorth__> not ultimate chaos
08:45:19  <planetmaker> nope.
08:45:32  <planetmaker> Order means that things are distinguishable
08:45:54  <planetmaker> that different places have different properties
08:46:14  <andythenorth__> so a regular grid of identical objects is not ordered?
08:46:18  <planetmaker> at maximum entropy each place has the same probability for everything
08:46:27  <planetmaker> andythenorth__: a _grid_ is orderd
08:46:34  <planetmaker> As not every place is equal
08:46:38  <planetmaker> or you'd have no grid
08:46:49  <planetmaker> air is at max. entropy
08:46:51  <planetmaker> Not your table
08:47:03  <andythenorth__> I think the table is chaotic :)
08:47:07  <planetmaker> :-D
08:47:12  <andythenorth__> the air seems neatly ordered to me
08:47:15  <planetmaker> ok, mine, too. But only the things on it
08:47:21  <andythenorth__> the table is in a highly unstable state
08:47:35  <planetmaker> max entropy is most stable
08:47:46  <planetmaker> unstable = highly non-entropic
08:47:56  <andythenorth__> I suppose I equate order with stability
08:48:02  <andythenorth__> a bit like the chinese system of government
08:48:15  <planetmaker> order doesn't mean stable
08:48:25  <andythenorth__> mathematically not I guess
08:48:29  <planetmaker> maximum entropy is necessarily the most stable state
08:48:31  <andythenorth__> I did politics :P
08:48:38  <planetmaker> as nothing can (without external input) deviate again from it
08:48:53  <planetmaker> except the random deviations
08:48:57  <andythenorth__> so nfo
08:49:05  <planetmaker> ?
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08:49:37  <planetmaker> meh
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08:50:57  <andythenorth_> brb
08:51:40  <planetmaker> he :-)
08:52:56  <Alberth> andythenorth_: each state is equally likely, it is just that there are a lot more states that we consider 'chaos'
08:53:16  <planetmaker> jo
08:53:29  <planetmaker> like... consider to roll a die for every letter you write.
08:54:27  <planetmaker> Each letter equally likely. How good are the chances that you'll roll 50000 die(the length of FIRS) with 40 sides (amount of characters used) and come up with the source code?
08:59:59  * Alberth rounds that down to 0 :)
09:02:07  <planetmaker> :-)
09:02:23  <planetmaker> a probability of 0 doesn't mean it cannot happen :-)
09:02:37  <planetmaker> and I can prove it ;-)
09:03:25  <planetmaker> and ... actually the amount of characters rather is like 70 ;-)
09:03:28  <planetmaker> case matters
09:03:43  <planetmaker> @calc 2*26 + 10
09:03:43  <Webster> planetmaker: 62
09:03:56  <planetmaker> probably even more than 70.
09:04:42  <planetmaker> tab, space, []|/#"().,-_' ...
09:06:01  <andythenorth_> so nfo...not trivial? :P
09:07:06  <Alberth> planetmaker: the chance of winning a lottery is also not 0, yet I do not even bother trying
09:07:22  <planetmaker> yeah. same here :-)
09:07:32  <planetmaker> andythenorth_: by the mathematical definition of 'trivial' it's not
09:07:46  <planetmaker> (nor IMHO by the common-sense one)
09:08:13  <planetmaker> or do you know out-of head whether and how I can make sure that a train shows proper shunting behaviour?
09:08:23  <planetmaker> and explain it in two short sentences ;-)
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09:10:23  <andythenorth_> could you do that for a higher level language?
09:11:03  <andythenorth_> anyway
09:11:26  <andythenorth_> Alberth: templates/template_secondary_action23_A.pnfo
09:11:35  <andythenorth_> is one of the three main production templates
09:11:51  <andythenorth_> FWIW I think there's a mathematical error in it somewhere, but I'm not sure where.  It just smells wrong
09:12:27  <andythenorth_> actions A0 - 01 define the production handling
09:13:33  <andythenorth_> actions A3, A4, A5 are where a max() needs inserting
09:14:06  <andythenorth_> hmm
09:14:11  <andythenorth_> there are two wrong comments there
09:15:22  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1473:9b4e757bdf27: Cleanup: unhelpfully wrong comments i... (andythenorth) @
09:18:12  <planetmaker> [11:10]	<andythenorth_>	could you do that for a higher level language? <-- also higher-level languages are not trivial
09:19:44  <andythenorth_> no
09:20:03  <andythenorth_> in a relative definition, I find nfo more trivial than higher level languages
09:20:13  <planetmaker> certainly not
09:20:21  <andythenorth_> mathematically perhaps not
09:20:29  <planetmaker> also not common-sense trivial
09:20:55  <planetmaker> trivial implies some sort of 'obvious'
09:20:59  <andythenorth_> nah
09:21:02  <planetmaker> a word I'd never associate with nfo
09:21:09  <andythenorth_> action 0 is obvious
09:21:17  <planetmaker> is it?
09:21:23  <planetmaker> even the name is not ;-)
09:21:38  <andythenorth_> it's just a dict with no characters indicating structure
09:22:03  <andythenorth_> not even a dict really - just name/value pairs
09:22:12  <andythenorth_> and no wasted characters for separators or anything
09:22:41  <planetmaker> in order for an action0 to be understandable, I have to know both, the meaning of the properties, I have to know their size (which need a lookup each - and they differ between features!) and so on
09:22:54  <planetmaker> andythenorth_: it may be efficient. But not trivial
09:22:56  <planetmaker> Not a single bit
09:22:58  <Alberth> escept those wasted characters ensure that a compiler can check you don't mess up
09:23:12  <andythenorth_> trivial may be the wrong word
09:23:23  <planetmaker> that's what I'm telling you.
09:23:31  <planetmaker> and it's not even easy
09:23:43  <andythenorth_> there should be a word like trivial that applies
09:23:46  <andythenorth_> 'blunt'
09:23:49  <planetmaker> as you need  to learn EVERY vocabulary, as there's NO logical pattern the properties follow
09:24:24  <planetmaker> the principle is somewhat easy for action0
09:24:34  <andythenorth_> stark?
09:24:45  <planetmaker> but writing nfo on that basis is neither trivial nor easy
09:24:58  <andythenorth_> compare a standard varaction 2 to a sophisticated python mapping
09:25:05  <andythenorth_> the python mapping is way more elegant
09:25:13  <Alberth> for making the original game, NFO may have been sufficient, but it should have been replaced with something more sane a loooong time ago
09:25:20  <andythenorth_> ach, I like nfo
09:25:22  <planetmaker> :-)
09:25:29  <andythenorth_> it's relaxing
09:25:32  <planetmaker> andythenorth_: you _know_ it
09:25:33  <andythenorth_> just follow the spec
09:25:41  <andythenorth_> and ask frosch when you get stuck....
09:25:43  <planetmaker> but... that's the only advantage really there is to it
09:26:10  <planetmaker> following specs can be done with _any_ sane programming language and is no argument
09:27:12  <andythenorth_> anyways....Alberth can you read that industry code?
09:27:24  <planetmaker> basically I dispute your argument which is "I can do it, so everyone can do it w/o effort". And that is simply not true ;-)
09:27:45  <andythenorth_> maybe it just suits my brain
09:27:50  <andythenorth_> I'm not a very good programmer
09:28:11  <planetmaker> FIRS meanwhile has a complexity. And the varaction2 things used there as well as tile layouts and stuff are _advanced_ nfo things. It really taks A LOT of time to get into that
09:28:22  <andythenorth_> and with nfo I dont have to be
09:28:24  <planetmaker> and the nfo language certainly is no help in doing so
09:28:37  <planetmaker> as it's not human readable
09:28:53  <Rubidium> human readable is subjective
09:29:09  <planetmaker> sure. As long as a string of ascii characters is readable...
09:29:41  <Alberth> basically anything is readable with practice (eg chineese characters)
09:29:59  <planetmaker> :-)
09:30:44  <Alberth> even the sound of a running machine gives information for some one experienced
09:30:53  <planetmaker> :-D
09:30:58  <planetmaker> Like the error beeps of bios...
09:31:02  <andythenorth_> 1[]/~.QZZZZZZZZZZZZZ`]
09:31:11  <andythenorth_> '[\§?"|
09:31:12  <andythenorth_> {
09:31:27  <Alberth> andythenorth_: I think so
09:32:00  * andythenorth_ let the baby near the keys
09:33:34  <planetmaker>  5733 * 14	 06 0D 82 28 0D 82 2C 0D 82 38 0D 82 3C FF
09:33:36  <planetmaker>  5734 * 136	 00 06 01 01 0A 0D 00 01 0B 0A 00 00 01 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0C 0A 00 00 02 0A 00 00
09:33:37  <planetmaker>   00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 54 00 00 00 5A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 00 00 00 5B 00 00 00 <-- readable :-D
09:38:18  <andythenorth_> what will make FIRS '1.0'?
09:38:34  <Rubidium> the openttdcoop compile farm?
09:38:47  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1619 (Closed): Update readme for 0.5 (andythenorth) @
09:40:27  <Ammler> andythenorth_: what is the suffix -release for?
09:40:46  <andythenorth_> I don't know
09:40:54  <andythenorth_> it was a pre-existing pattern
09:40:59  <Ammler> :-)
09:41:02  <andythenorth_> I assumed it was there for a reason
09:41:24  <andythenorth_> planetmaker: is #1565 still relevant?
09:41:24  <Brot6> andythenorth_: planetmaker: #1565 is "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1565: cotton in arctic? - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
09:42:08  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1546 (Closed): Textile Mill industry window text wrong (andythenorth) @
09:42:36  <Ammler> andythenorth_: now, you are making your "long" break? ;-)
09:42:49  <andythenorth_> cleaning house
09:43:17  <andythenorth_> there is some stuff to do for 0.5.1 that's worth doing
09:43:40  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1435 (Closed): Consider merging some town industries (andythenorth) @
09:43:40  <andythenorth_> but really I need time for more feedback, which means slowing development and not breaking everyone's savegame so much
09:45:04  <planetmaker> :-)
09:45:49  * Alberth ponders a NFO disassembler
09:46:47  <planetmaker> hm... grfcodec?
09:47:10  <Alberth> that's a GRF disassembler :)
09:47:53  <andythenorth_> grf2html
09:47:57  <andythenorth_> frosch did it already
09:48:09  <andythenorth_> also in-game newgrf debug tools to some extent...
09:48:27  <andythenorth_> I learnt nfo partly by using grf2html
09:48:31  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #832 (Closed): No source of cotton (andythenorth) @
09:48:31  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #833 (Closed): Textile Mill not accepting cotton (andythenorth) @
09:48:58  <andythenorth_> play FIRS games, then I can ask lots of questions :D
09:50:02  <Hirundo> I presume that porting my current FIRS 0.4 game to 0.5 is not possible?
09:50:15  <andythenorth_> expect much breakage
09:51:39  <Ammler> worth a try, isn't?
09:51:59  <planetmaker> uhm... I expect it to break horribly
09:52:10  <Hirundo> What industries got removed?
09:52:18  <andythenorth_> I'd put a trivial amount of money on it crashing the game
09:54:35  <Hirundo> Actually it does not (yet)
09:55:13  <Hirundo> Instead, all industries show <invalid industry> and are composed of tile 0, which happens to be a coal mine part
09:55:24  <andythenorth_> all industry?
09:55:30  <andythenorth_> guess the changed grfid causes that
09:55:33  <Hirundo> ^^
09:55:45  <Hirundo> All except stuff like iron mine which has original graphics
09:57:10  <andythenorth_> :|
09:57:15  <andythenorth_> expected though :)
09:57:53  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #464 (Rejected): Landfill (andythenorth) @
09:57:53  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #461 (Closed): Fish Processor (andythenorth) @
09:57:53  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #466 (Closed): Cotton Plantation (andythenorth) @
10:00:10  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #763 (Closed): Watch the nightly compile logs (andythenorth) @
10:00:40  <andythenorth_> that'll do for now
10:00:45  <andythenorth_> time for a break :)
10:03:03  <Alberth> andythenorth_: nforenum r466 reports a fatal error
10:03:12  <andythenorth_> hmm
10:03:24  <andythenorth_> for firs tip?
10:03:30  <planetmaker> Alberth: you might want to use grfcodec 5.x ;-)
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10:03:47  <planetmaker> well... which contains nforenum
10:05:10  <planetmaker> hm... you should IMHO have given reasons for closing issues, andythenorth_
10:05:26  <andythenorth_> :)
10:06:01  <planetmaker> it now can mean anything from 'implemented' over 'not now' to 'rejected'
10:06:42  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #466: Cotton Plantation (andythenorth) @
10:06:42  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #461: Fish Processor (andythenorth) @
10:06:49  <Ammler> closing means implemented
10:06:54  <Ammler> else you do reject
10:07:12  <andythenorth_> ^ what Ammler said
10:07:36  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #464: Landfill (andythenorth) @
10:07:49  <planetmaker> still I like your new comments much better. I explains *why* :-)
10:08:03  <planetmaker> and allows at least some starting point to see how
10:08:05  <planetmaker> and where
10:13:46  <Terkhen> vehicle property "cargo_type" does not appear in the NML documentation
10:14:17  <Terkhen> luckily its name is easy to deduce
10:15:27  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1564: more rigorously placement industries; mind cargo chains (andythenorth) @
10:16:39  <planetmaker> Terkhen: does not exist (anymore)
10:16:57  * Terkhen updates nml
10:17:18  <Terkhen> at first I was assuming it would use first refittable cargo by default, but it didn't
10:17:26  <planetmaker> it was found to only cause problems and it's automatically set to "first refittable"
10:18:27  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1254 (Rejected): All snowline code should not assume Arc... (andythenorth) @
10:20:02  <planetmaker> it doesn't use the CTT and as such is dependent on the industry set in use
10:20:08  <planetmaker> not a good property :-)
10:20:15  <Terkhen> indeed
10:20:23  <Terkhen> thanks, it's now working correctly
10:20:24  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #912 (Rejected): Production boost at certain industries i... (andythenorth) @
10:20:53  <Terkhen> now I only have to understand sprites to have the first bulk truck working
10:21:24  <Terkhen> I guess those png files in ogfx-trains are sprites from opengfx converted to png
10:22:33  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #819 (Rejected): Stop trying to make Power Plants more th... (andythenorth) @
10:22:33  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #797 (Rejected): Recycling plant production code (andythenorth) @
10:25:40  <planetmaker> correct
10:26:17  <planetmaker> If you 'just' want refittable, you can work w/o sprites. E.g. for a container-like piecegoods lorry
10:27:32  <planetmaker> The problem with most RV is: they are not in nicely ordered graphics files
10:27:55  <planetmaker> many RV are a simple rip-off from the original egrvts one, at least toyland
10:29:22  <planetmaker> hm... vehiclesroad01.pcx is not as bad as I thought :-)
10:29:25  <andythenorth_> you're just modifying default vehicle action 0 props yes?
10:29:34  <planetmaker> no
10:29:44  <andythenorth_> ah
10:29:58  <planetmaker> proper refit support means a nice varaction2 chain
10:30:07  <planetmaker> which means to copy all sprites
10:30:14  <planetmaker> and make them available for this one vehicle
10:31:00  <Terkhen> right now I only have action 0 properties... but from looking at the wagon code, defining sprites for each cargo class does not seem very complicated
10:31:14  <planetmaker> well, no
10:31:37  <planetmaker> actually I define it there at best on a per-cargo basis
10:31:42  <planetmaker> not quite yet
10:32:00  <planetmaker> hm... I should consider to release OpenGFX+ Trains as 0.1.0
10:32:32  <planetmaker> It *should* provide everything without loosing really much. Only maglev and monorail wagons show the same as rail ones
10:32:41  <planetmaker> which is not nice, but... ok
10:32:51  <planetmaker> hm... And I should re-define the valuable wagons.
10:32:59  <planetmaker> Or with FIRS they'll transport precious milk
10:33:52  <planetmaker> or was it sand? Dunno
10:35:36  <Terkhen> can't you disable that wagon in that case?
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10:52:42  <planetmaker> Terkhen: it will disable itself, if the cargo is not available.
10:53:05  <planetmaker> As such it makes sense to re-define it and allow it only for valuables
10:54:03  <planetmaker> that way it's not needed to take care for every (future) industry mod as well
10:57:11  <Terkhen> okay
10:59:07  <planetmaker> for this it needs no new graphics, just new refit properties. So that case would be only action0 needed
11:19:26  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 48:cf1f8671ac20: Change #1528: Redefine armoured wagon, thus disabling... (planetmaker) @
11:32:29  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 49:ba6af1fb65a2: Fix: Disable the monorail and maglev wagons using the... (planetmaker) @
11:37:25  *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
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11:47:31  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1550 (Reopened): allow setting default value also for boo... (planetmaker) @
11:49:23  *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
11:51:28  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 827:0db42b7035d6: Fix #1550: def_value didn't work for bool settings (yexo) @
11:51:28  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1550 (Closed): allow setting default value also for boole... (yexo) @
11:51:38  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #1624 (New): EF55 (Voyager1) @
11:52:04  <planetmaker> that's not the fix :-(
11:52:17  <Yexo> are you sure? it works here
11:52:27  <planetmaker> it didn't here
11:52:33  <planetmaker> that's what I tried before I reported
11:53:16  <planetmaker> hm
11:53:19  <Yexo> can you add: print type(self.def_val) just before that if and copy the result here?
11:53:26  <Yexo>
11:54:59  <planetmaker> [NML] ogfx-trains.grf
11:55:01  <planetmaker> <class 'nml.expression.ConstantNumeric'>
11:56:32  <Hirundo> The fix in r827 should be correct
11:56:35  <Yexo> that is ok
11:56:54  <Yexo> planetmaker: can you pastebin the complete nml code that fails?
11:57:21  <planetmaker> hm, you'll probably need the graphics. Do you have a copy of ogfx-trains?
11:57:28  <Yexo> not yet
11:58:11  <planetmaker> <-- the diff against r49 of that repo
11:58:30  <planetmaker> hg clone ogfx-trains
11:59:43  <planetmaker> and the only modification to my NML is the debug line you just asked for
11:59:55  <Yexo> it builds fine here
12:00:03  <planetmaker> hm
12:00:14  <Yexo> did you pull the last nml revision?
12:00:48  <planetmaker> :-D No
12:01:05  <planetmaker> sorry :-(
12:02:18  <planetmaker> yes works.
12:05:38  <Terkhen> nmlc: Image file "src/gfx/bulk_truck_1_iron_ore.png": image does not have a palette <--- what should I do to fix this?
12:06:04  <Alberth> fix the image?
12:06:07  <Terkhen> :D
12:06:39  <planetmaker> indeed. Open gimp. convert to proper palette. and save.
12:06:47  <Alberth> actually, why all this palette stuff in the first place?
12:07:00  <Alberth> can NML not fix that instead?
12:07:09  <planetmaker> no
12:07:19  <Alberth> ..
12:07:36  <planetmaker> well. Difficult :-)
12:07:46  <planetmaker> it's not necessarily un-ambigeous :-)
12:07:58  <planetmaker> How do you properly convert an image which has colours not in the palette?
12:08:06  <Alberth> not
12:08:13  <planetmaker> How do you know whether an action or CC was meant or a 'normal' colour?
12:08:34  <planetmaker> Hm... you mean, just complain when there are non-supported colours?
12:08:34  <Alberth> 'action' ?
12:08:45  <planetmaker> fire. water. lights
12:08:51  <planetmaker> animated palette colours
12:09:03  <planetmaker> action colours
12:09:07  <Alberth> we make a mapping (or ask for one)
12:09:13  <Terkhen> hmmm... which one is the proper palette?
12:09:23  <planetmaker> Terkhen: TTD windows
12:10:22  <Alberth> we could simply use the colours that are in the palette today
12:10:25  <planetmaker>
12:10:30  <planetmaker> ^ the first one
12:10:35  <Terkhen> thanks :)
12:10:45  <frosch123> Alberth: the water and fire colours also appear as 'normal' colours
12:11:21  <frosch123> but you can likely do something like: if the image does not have a proper palette, use only normal colours
12:11:28  <Alberth> so an artist cannot see whether his pixel is animated or not?
12:11:37  <planetmaker> yeah. That would probably be a good solution, frosch123 :-)
12:11:40  <frosch123> no, unless with ttdviewer :p
12:11:45  <planetmaker> Alberth: indeed, unlesss ^
12:12:02  <planetmaker> actually, one can.
12:12:24  <planetmaker> Using a palette supporting drawing programme you can colour-select all pixels of a single palette entry
12:12:33  <Alberth> so why does he not use a different colour instead?
12:12:52  <planetmaker> I guess: ask Chris sawer :-)
12:13:04  <frosch123> what has cs to do with that?
12:13:15  <planetmaker> with the palettes in use?
12:13:19  <frosch123> the colours of the animated colours are completely made up by grfcodec
12:13:29  <Alberth> I mean, index X is for a cycled colour, so pick hell-green or so
12:13:50  <frosch123> e.g. the watercircle has 15 colours, but only 5 entries in the palette or so
12:14:08  <planetmaker> hm interesting
12:14:12  <planetmaker> I didn't know *that*
12:14:34  <frosch123> furthermore, dos has only 6 bit per color component, while windows has 8 bit
12:14:38  <Alberth> the only requirement is that you can distinguish 256 colours at most, which is a requirement that exists today as well
12:14:49  <frosch123> as such the dos and win palette are also different in normal colours
12:15:15  <Alberth> I cannot imagine that an artist would use the same colour for different index values
12:15:21  <frosch123> oh, we missed the most fundamental colour: transparent blue
12:15:27  <planetmaker> :-)
12:15:32  <planetmaker> that IS important
12:15:46  <Alberth> ok, 257 colours
12:16:15  <planetmaker> Alberth: well... But the same colours are used ingame for different index values
12:16:33  <planetmaker> So an artist does not necessarily have a choice, if he wants to see how it looks while drawing
12:16:41  <Alberth> I care only a small bit about ingame
12:17:06  <planetmaker> :D
12:17:11  <planetmaker> But the artists usually don't
12:17:16  <planetmaker> That's what the graphics are drawn for
12:18:10  <planetmaker> But how would you address this issue?
12:18:37  <Alberth> use a converter program obviously
12:19:41  <Alberth> you cannot see cycled colours in gimp either, so you need to convert it to a grf anyway to see the graphics
12:20:59  <Yexo> is there a list of indexed in both the dos and windows palette that are special (=action colors / company colors)?
12:21:54  <frosch123> how does nml detect the palette today?
12:23:00  <Alberth> check against a table
12:23:23  <planetmaker> Yexo: that list is in the OpenTTD source ;-)
12:23:26  <frosch123> well, but does it check the colours to match exaclty? or does it allow some threshold of differences?
12:23:38  <planetmaker> frosch123: it need to be exactly
12:23:52  <frosch123> i mean: screenshots of ttd, ottd, and grfcodec output use slightly different colours for some weird reason
12:23:55  <Alberth>
12:24:15  <planetmaker> actually the indices can be inferred from the 'usual' images
12:24:29  <planetmaker>
12:24:43  <planetmaker> that gives the indices from left to right and top to bottom
12:25:33  <planetmaker> hm, do they really, frosch123 ? Then it's strange...
12:25:39  <planetmaker> and... maybe should be adjusted
12:25:46  <planetmaker> at least grfcodec and ottd
12:25:50  <frosch123> e.g.: M(131, 133, 131) <- colour 8 of ottd dos, while ttd uses 132, 132, 132
12:28:08  <planetmaker> he
12:28:16  <planetmaker> wrong once, wrong ever?
12:28:58  <frosch123> grfcodec also seems to use 132, 132, 132 in this special case
12:29:39  <Yexo> nml uses the exact same palettes as grfcodec IIRC
12:29:45  <frosch123> so likely some ottd guy insisted on greyscale colours not having same rgb values, but that you can see the difference if you use some colour temperature stuff
12:35:47  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 50:02b28b928a9b: Change: Disable the default wagons by default and onl... (planetmaker) @
12:36:17  <planetmaker> Alberth: in any case, it probably *would* be a good idea to assume a palette, either DOS or windows (or use those which was already used by one previous graphics file) and convert an image file assuming no company colour or action colours are used
12:36:50  <planetmaker> Or... maybe not assume anything, but at least try to convert 1:1 and only complain if not matching colours are found
12:37:05  <planetmaker> Problems like Terkhen just reported are very common and only a hassle ;-)
12:37:42  <frosch123> planetmaker: is it a good idea to not allow "company colour"?
12:37:54  <planetmaker> hm... probably not
12:37:57  <planetmaker> are they distinct?
12:37:58  <frosch123> i.e. there are also various sprites which are drawn without company colours
12:38:04  <frosch123> while there is also 2cc and other stuff
12:38:22  <frosch123> i don't know whether there are duplicates wrt cc
12:39:06  <planetmaker> if there are it's a problem to consider them. If not... it will be quite fine to allow CC or even 2CC
12:40:47  <frosch123> A1 and D3 are duplicates
12:41:54  <frosch123> hmm, both are normal colours...
12:42:04  <planetmaker> hu?
12:42:26  <frosch123> looks like there are duplicate normal colours :p
12:43:34  <Yexo> which indixes are they duplicates of?
12:43:35  <planetmaker> could be not more silly
12:43:47  <frosch123> A1 and D3 in dos palette
12:43:48  <frosch123> some light blue
12:44:11  <frosch123> 204, 240, 252 resp. 0xCCF0FC
12:44:20  <Yexo> indeed silly
12:45:11  <Alberth> one of them part of a cycle ?
12:45:16  <frosch123> well, not as silly as the greyscale of the win palette :p
12:45:28  <frosch123> no cycle
12:45:47  <planetmaker> hm?
12:45:59  <planetmaker> what's wrong about the windoze gray colours?
12:46:46  <frosch123> they are scattered all across the palette, trashing 4 dos colours, while there are plenty of consecutive unused slots?
12:47:14  <frosch123> i have no idea why the windows porters of ttd messed so hard with  the palette...
12:47:38  <Yexo> frosch123: where in the openttd code is the palette?
12:47:50  <frosch123> table/palettes.h
12:48:29  <frosch123> the animation cycles are in gfx.cpp or so, but there are more colours than slots for them
12:48:43  <frosch123> no, they are in palettes.h as well
12:48:55  <planetmaker> hm, can I determine somehow the default order of vehicles how they appear in the purchase list?
12:49:14  <frosch123> there is some order proterty
12:49:20  <planetmaker> lifestock, pax, mail, bulk, flatbed, valuables is not sensible
12:49:53  <frosch123> hmm, do you mean order of vehicles, or order of refittable cargos?
12:50:24  <frosch123> anyway, property 1A for trains
12:50:36  <planetmaker> order of vehicles. I don't mind cargos
12:50:41  <planetmaker> (in this case)
12:52:27  <planetmaker> thanks
12:52:35  <frosch123> "It is possible to reset the list to its original order with a special action 0 that has num-info set to 0, and only sets property 1A for trains:" <-- haha, i bet that is not implemented in ottd
12:54:21  <frosch123> nforenum knows it though
12:54:47  <planetmaker> hm, where does that question come from?
12:55:04  <planetmaker> was it me? ;-)
12:55:35  <planetmaker> property 1A mentions OpenTTD r13k something
12:55:57  <planetmaker> but NML explicitly mentions it not at all
12:56:25  <frosch123> planetmaker: r13k refers to B*, i.e. enginepool with more vehicles
12:56:38  <planetmaker> was there a (hackish) way to write an unsupported property in NML? Just for testing purposes?
12:57:09  <planetmaker> frosch123: yes. But in that section it means that 1A is supported by OpenTTD. Or...?
12:57:26  <frosch123> 1a is supported for long, just not that "reset"-thingie
12:57:42  <planetmaker> ah
12:58:48  <frosch123> btw. planetmaker, to answer the question which most ask somehwn when dealing with property 1a: you do not specify a order, but you sort them manually
12:59:03  <planetmaker> within my newgrf
12:59:24  <planetmaker> though I don't quite get the difference between those two things you just mention
13:00:11  <planetmaker> setting it to 1,2,3,4,5,... should have them appear top ... down in order 1,2,3,4,5... or is my understanding wrong?
13:00:24  <frosch123> very much
13:00:33  <planetmaker> very much wrong? :D
13:01:07  <frosch123> when setting prop 1a you issue the vehicle to be inserted before a certain other vehicle NOW (in the moment you assign the property)
13:02:03  <frosch123> i.e. if you set "1 before 2" and "3 before 2", you will get "1, 3, 2". if you say "3 before 2" and "1 before 2" you will get "3, 1, 2"
13:02:53  <frosch123> so, you do not define an order which ottd then sorts according to, but you specify the single movements, which are excuted in that exact order
13:03:48  <planetmaker> ho, let me digest that... movement wrt which frame of reference?
13:04:18  <frosch123> move vehicle a in front of b
13:05:04  <planetmaker> but when I set 1A in the firs vehicle I define... what does it do? And then in the 2nd a value higher?
13:05:38  <frosch123> no, you do not set any order/rank in 1a, you specify "vehicle ids" in 1a
13:06:05  <planetmaker> and I specify in front of which it goes?
13:06:18  <frosch123> setting property 1A to 12 means, insert this vehicle before vehicle with id 12. it does not mean insert at position 12 of the list
13:06:27  <planetmaker> ah, ok
13:06:39  <Yexo> <planetmaker> was there a (hackish) way to write an unsupported property in NML? Just for testing purposes? <- no, there is a way for varaction2 variables, but for properties the size is needed
13:07:14  <planetmaker> hm. Maybe we want to support property 1A then ;-)
13:07:52  <planetmaker> It seems that re-defining default vehicles kinda adds them arbitrarily to the purchase list. Which looks a bit unfortunate
13:07:56  <Yexo> say we want the order D, B, A, C. The easiest way to do that is to do: put A in front of C, B in front of A, D in front of B
13:08:08  <Yexo> it may not be the most efficient way, but it's certainly the easiest way to program it
13:08:29  <planetmaker> yes.
13:08:34  <Yexo> that way we can support property 1A by letting the nml writer do: sort_vehicles(trainD, trainB, trainA, trainC);
13:08:39  <frosch123> yeah, but order matters :)
13:13:19  <Hirundo> It's a nice thought exercise
13:15:10  <planetmaker> indeed :-)
13:17:32  <frosch123> hmm, 32 and 43 are also duplicates (both normal colours)
13:18:06  <frosch123> except 32 is part of 2cc
13:18:21  <frosch123> there your trouble starts :)
13:21:01  <frosch123> hmm, no 2cc starts 5x
13:21:18  <frosch123> so, both normal colours, same for 34 and 44 :o
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13:23:15  <planetmaker> tsk
13:23:33  <planetmaker> we should re-define those colours ;-)
13:23:40  <planetmaker> to something usable
13:23:59  <planetmaker> let's say... another thing for grf version8
13:24:40  * planetmaker hopes that frosch123 adds it to his probably meanwhile long lists of things going there ;-)
13:24:41  <frosch123> let's see whether newspaper and shadow recolouring also treats them the same :p
13:25:04  <planetmaker> oh right ;-)
13:25:42  <frosch123> AF and B0, too :p
13:27:23  <planetmaker> you're still talking about the DOS palette?
13:27:35  <frosch123> i only ever talk about dos
13:27:53  <frosch123> there is no point talking about win, is there?
13:29:28  <frosch123> so, there are 4 pairs of duplicate colours. and yet the win palette thrashes 4 different colours :p
13:30:18  <frosch123> oh, it even trashes 6
13:32:24  <planetmaker> jo
13:34:17  <Alberth> any chance of getting the NML code documented?
13:36:18  <planetmaker> :-D
13:37:43  <Alberth> it's not funny at all
13:39:47  <Hirundo> "The NML code" is kinda big, where should I start?
13:39:56  <Hirundo> --> What info do you need?
13:42:17  <planetmaker> [15:37]	<Alberth>	it's not funny at all <-- I guess I use that 'smily' slightly differently than you understood ;-)
13:42:44  <frosch123> A1 and D3 are recoloured differently for crashed vehciles, transparency and newspaper :p
13:43:06  <planetmaker> does it matter, frosch123 ?
13:43:20  * Yexo wonders how many graphic artists actually know that
13:43:55  <frosch123> hmm, but ttdviewer uses the wrong indices for 2cc :(
13:46:05  <Alberth> Hirundo:  says there are about 1000 undocumented functions. Even if 2/3 is a false positive, there are still 300 undocumented functions
13:47:37  <Alberth> I wanted to do the skipping due to version constraints, but I am getting quite fed up with it all
13:50:26  <Hirundo> I can understand that a lack of comments, weak typing and style-mixups make for some unpleasant experiences...
13:51:19  <Hirundo> Refactoring/documenting at least action2/7/9/D is certainly on my (long) todo list
13:52:22  <Yexo> that is one of the worst parts of the code
13:52:41  <Hirundo> too much stuff has been bolted onto parse_varaction2() for too long
13:54:43  <Alberth> I just cannot make head or tails of the code. parameters from nowhere without a clue of their meaning and/or their range of values
13:55:02  <Alberth> it will take me months to understand how to even call a function
13:55:51  <Hirundo> Then, ask questions here
13:56:26  <Brot6> TTDViewer - Revision 26:e8c40dddd7e3: -Fix: 2CC recolouring used wrong indices (hex/dec mixup) (frosch) @
13:56:41  <Yexo> considering I wrote most of the varaction2 code I'll start with documenting it
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13:57:16  <planetmaker> hey
13:57:19  <Levi> hey
13:57:35  <planetmaker> any name?
13:57:36  <Hirundo> I think it's best to refactor it into a class (Varaction2Parser), so it can be split into sane <1 page methods
13:58:21  <Levi> planetmaker: username's same as here, project name, anything you see fit :)
13:58:40  <planetmaker> I was asking you about the latter, yes ;-)
13:58:51  <Levi> just to be sure
13:59:15  <Levi> openttd server configuration utility or something like that, I guess
13:59:49  <planetmaker> you use hg?
14:00:11  <Levi> I mainly use git, if that's supported
14:00:23  <Levi> if not, hg will do
14:00:39  <Alberth> Hirundo: you'd get questions like "hey, tell me how what python code to write to make the minimal version check work". Not the type of questions you'd want to answer imho, as effectively, you'd do all the work, and I learn nothing since I still don't get cluefull about the meaning of functions
14:00:41  <planetmaker> I'd need to check that, I never use it
14:03:32  <planetmaker> Levi: hg would have the adv. that it works somewhat reasonably also on windows :-)
14:03:42  <planetmaker> reasonably as in speed terms
14:03:45  <Levi> planetmaker: git works on windows just fine
14:04:13  <Levi> but if you insist, I can switch the project to hg, no big deal
14:05:32  <planetmaker> it would mean I have to do no work :-P
14:06:14  <Levi> ok then, hg it is :)
14:06:22  <planetmaker> and it means, if you ever want to bundle things as a release the CF can handle it somewhat out-of-box
14:06:31  <planetmaker> it's currently only tailored for hg
14:07:04  <Brot6> repository /home/ottdc/hg-repos/ottd-webconfig registered in Redmine with url /home/ottdc/hg-repos/ottd-webconfig
14:07:04  <Brot6> repository /home/ottdc/hg-repos/ottd-webconfig created
14:07:47  <planetmaker> ^ there you got your project
14:07:52  <planetmaker>
14:08:22  <planetmaker> you can clone the (empty) one from
14:08:30  <Levi> ok, thx
14:10:05  <planetmaker> you can push using your redmine credentials using
14:11:08  <planetmaker> is your project's main page
14:11:37  <Levi> ok, i see. thanks, I'll get on setting it up in a moment
14:13:34  <planetmaker> <-- might be interesting for you ;-)
14:13:37  <Webster> Title: GitConcepts - Mercurial (at
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14:36:01  <Levi> ok, it's all up
14:36:29  <Levi> tortoisehg seems a little bit more complicated than it needs to be, but it works
14:45:06  <planetmaker> nice
14:45:11  <Yexo> Hirundo: r727 supports the syntax for "calling" another switch block, but you never implemented the varaction2 part of that, right?
14:45:50  <Yexo> in any case: gives an internal error
14:47:38  <planetmaker> Yexo: it's correct that scope like BACKWARD_SELF(x) only work for random, right?
14:47:59  <planetmaker> and only SELF and PARENT work with switch
14:48:47  <Yexo> yes
14:49:00  <Ammler> actually all main devs of redmine use git, so it would quite easy to support it, our issue is that we have no clue about it :-)
14:49:22  <Ammler> so if you don't need support, you could use git :-)
14:49:25  <Levi> Ammler: you should work it out, git is really quite nice
14:50:09  <Levi> but I've set the project up with hg already, no reason to change
14:50:32  <Hirundo> Yexo: That syntax was already supported previously (sortof), don't know whether it ever worked though
14:50:37  <planetmaker> Levi: it's installed just fine. On the server, here and probably on Ammler's machine, too
14:50:39  <planetmaker> but...
14:50:50  <planetmaker> ... never touch a running system
14:50:55  <Yexo> it doesn't work now, so I'll just assume it never did
14:51:30  <planetmaker> and personally for me there's no reason to switch
14:55:50  <Ammler> as said, we would like to support git, we just don't like to do it self :-P
14:56:10  <planetmaker> :-P
14:58:01  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 51:ec57445fc264: Change: Update readme and credits a bit (planetmaker) @
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14:59:47  <fanioz> have a nice sunday
15:22:36  <fanioz> okay, quick question. Is it possible to make a quite push, so  Brot6 didn't echo every push, but just a few of them instead?
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15:25:36  <Levi> Brot6 didn't echo my push into my project...
15:27:25  <planetmaker> it doesn't echo every project
15:27:43  <planetmaker> Though I agree yours should be part of it :-)
15:27:53  <planetmaker> fanioz: that's not possible
15:28:24  <planetmaker> but it has a limit of only broadcasting the 5 last ones
15:28:29  <planetmaker> or 10?
15:30:41  <fanioz> hmmm okay
15:30:56  <Levi> planetmaker: if you're going to use the script, I'd much appreciate feedback. it's been ages since I've done anything with php :)
15:31:10  <planetmaker> sure :-)
15:31:54  <planetmaker> Levi: probably you'll get more feature requests than you like :-P
15:33:24  <Levi> well, I'm not necessarily alone on this project (a few friends playing on my server are also CS students, shouldn't be too hard to motivate them:) ), so maybe it could grow into something bigger over time
15:33:36  <Ammler> it does echo max of 10
15:34:04  <Ammler> don't care about "spam" :-)
15:34:32  <planetmaker> Levi, if my fellow coopers like it, I'd hand over the maintenance on the server to you ;-)
15:36:04  <Ammler> you could place the webconfig beside of autopilot in openttd scripts
15:36:46  <Ammler> we can hide your project from announcement, if you need
15:37:22  <planetmaker> good idea. Done ;-)
15:38:50  <Brot6> OpenTTD WebConfig - Revision 0:4c1ce9ac2741: Initial commit. (Levi) @
15:40:48  <fanioz> Levi, ^ isn't that your project ? :D
15:40:58  <Levi> it is, that's the old push
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15:49:00  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 828:eef9f5f342fe: Cleanup: remove Action2Operator as it's been su... (yexo) @
15:49:00  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 829:cd8e9c784430: Change: remove varsize from actions/action2var.... (yexo) @
15:50:38  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 830:907d645acc82: Change: move remove_tmp_location from Action2Va... (yexo) @
15:50:38  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1625 (New): Implement "calling" another varaction2 (yexo) @
15:52:47  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1626 (New): Fill Action2.references in random action2 (yexo) @
15:55:01  <Rubidium> frosch123: the DOS palette stuff comes, IIRC, from grfcodec (at least the conversion tables come from grfcodec, again IIRC)
15:58:34  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 831:a3a8d4fc7914: Doc: the Action2Var class an it's members (yexo) @
16:10:14  <Brot6> nml: update from r826 to r831 done -
16:11:18  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 52:e370096929f2: Add: German translation (planetmaker) @
16:11:35  * planetmaker ponders the banana approach with OpenGFX+Trains: pick early and let it ripe at the customer ;-)
16:17:36  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 53:9200ac198b6e: Fix: Remove introduction date from a few wagons (planetmaker) @
16:19:50  <Brot6> firs: update from r1460 to r1473 done (1 errors) -
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16:20:51  <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from r40 to r53 done (1 errors) -
16:21:23  <Brot6> ogfx-trees: update from r38 to r41 done -
16:22:24  <Brot6> ttdviewer: update from r25 to r26 done -
16:22:27  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r615), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r68), airportsplus (r63), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r7), comic-houses (r71), fish (r394), frenchtowns (r4), grfcodec (r772), heqs (r380), indonesiantowns (r33), metrotrackset (r56), newgrf_makefile (r219), nforenum (r506), nml (r831), nutracks (r117), opengfx (r550), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45),
16:22:27  <Brot6> swedishrails (r182), swisstowns (r20), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttrs (r23), worldairlinersset (r664)
16:26:26  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: airportsplus (Diffsize: 6), belarusiantowns (3 errors) (Diffsize: 21), frenchtowns (4 errors) (Diffsize: 9), indonesiantowns (4 errors) (Diffsize: 12), swedishrails (Diffsize: 6), swisstowns (Diffsize: 4649)
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17:28:24  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1627 (New): improvements to Store placement (andythenorth) @
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17:34:34  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 54:8372cd125e5d: Fix (r52): Use the correct languageID (planetmaker) @
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18:12:05  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r20911 to r20914 done -
18:22:58  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r20911 to r20914 done -
18:33:50  <Brot6> serverpatches: update from hfa4136ed to h962cc856 done (2 errors) -
18:59:44  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 55:ecd05cb460e1: Added tag 0.1.0 for changeset 8372cd125e5d (planetmaker) @
19:00:43  <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from  to 0.1.0 done (1 errors) -
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19:04:27  <planetmaker> ^ there Ammler
19:04:31  <planetmaker> :-)
19:14:10  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 832:1406adc47be0: Codechange: Split parse_actionD into different ... (Hirundo) @
19:36:14  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 833:25bf21a77777: Doc: Document the classes ParameterAssignment a... (Hirundo) @
19:44:05  <Brot6> OpenTTD WebConfig - Revision 1:3ac8dca75291: Display [newgrf] header even if no NewGRFs are active (Levi) @
19:55:45  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 834:7da7920a2a7a: Feature: Output the expression corresponding to... (Hirundo) @
20:15:30  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 835:4d92f612a47e: Codechange: s/feature/action_type in the action... (Hirundo) @
20:19:35  <Brot6> OpenTTD WebConfig - Revision 2:2eb031297d47: Moved all HTML to templates. (Levi) @
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20:55:58  <Brot6> OpenTTD WebConfig - Revision 3:3bf740ee4f85: Added error messages in case of missing rights or ot... (Levi) @
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21:13:01  <Alberth> Hirundo: you know you can also add comment with the newline() method?
21:13:48  <Alberth> oh, this is about the whole sprite, perhaps above it is better
21:15:26  <Hirundo> Yes, and yes :)
21:17:54  <Yexo> this way we can change "comment" in a function that writes an actionC, perhaps only when the user uses a certain commandline option
21:20:25  <Alberth> no idea what the use of that is, as you'd want to read the NML source anyway :)
21:23:25  <Yexo> that way you can question the existance of actionC
21:29:03  * Alberth nods
21:29:32  <planetmaker> :-)
21:30:03  <Alberth> although in the context of a graphics artist, where the final product is also the only artefact, it makes some sense
21:37:56  <Alberth> good night
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